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  • Category: Republican
  • Founded: Oct 16, 2004
  • Language: English
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#2346 From: Mr geoff broughton <perrinvk@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:43 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
perrinvk
Send Email Send Email
 
you have to unsubscribe Michelle

----- Original Message ----
From: Michelle Murphy <mnmurphy@...>
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 14, 2008 6:38:14 PM
Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Support McCain?!?!

Please remove me from this list.


thanks,

michelle murphy

On Jun 14, 2008, at 1:21 PM, David Johnson wrote:

Many of us Ron Paul supporters are getting active in their local Republican 
parties
. Four local Ron Paul supporters, including myself, have run for and 
have likely won, a spot on the county central committee. I think we can avoid 
bitter discussion over foreign policy, because this is at the county level.

But there is still the problem of McCain. The local party will expect us to 
actively campaign for all Republican candidates, including McCain. We had an 
announcement that the local GOP business meetings will be combined with the 
local McCain campaign meetings. I can handle the local and state candidates, 
but I can't stomach campaigning for McCain. It's not just his stance on the 
war, it's his big government attitude on everything else. 

I don't know if I can hold my breath all the way until November. Surely other 
RLC members have been in the same situation before. How did you manage to not 
campaign for Bush in 2000 and 2004?

-- 
David Johnson




#2347 From: David Johnson <david@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:43 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
kilderfirkin
Send Email Send Email
 
On Saturday 14 June 2008 05:24:22 pm Toby Nixon wrote:
> I don't know what the situation is in other states, but here in our
> district in Washington, PCOs are expected to deliver literature for all
> Republican candidates.

Speaking of literature, is there any official RLC literature available? I
could always include that literature as well.

--
David Johnson

#2348 From: Daniel Rego <DanielRego@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:21 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
madhatchemist
Send Email Send Email
 
At 01:21 PM 6/14/2008, David Johnson wrote:

>Many of us Ron Paul supporters are getting active in their local Republican
>parties. Four local Ron Paul supporters, including myself, have run for and
>have likely won, a spot on the county central committee. I think we can avoid
>bitter discussion over foreign policy, because this is at the county level.
>
>But there is still the problem of McCain. The local party will expect us to
>actively campaign for all Republican candidates, including McCain. We had an
>announcement that the local GOP business meetings will be combined with the
>local McCain campaign meetings. I can handle the local and state candidates,
>but I can't stomach campaigning for McCain. It's not just his stance on the
>war, it's his big government attitude on everything else.
>
>I don't know if I can hold my breath all the way until November. Surely other
>RLC members have been in the same situation before. How did you manage to not
>campaign for Bush in 2000 and 2004?

The party committees themselves, as opposed to something like the RLC
or other such organizations, exist to support party candidates,
including ones you don't like.  They are not, nor should they, start
non Republicans over republicans.  If you don't like certain
candidates, then just don't involve yourself with McCain related
events and use that time to support other candidates you like more.

If you use your time and energy within the party to support
down-ticket candidates that you really like, you will be far, far
more effective then using your time and energy to attack McCain.  If
you spend your time being anti-McCain, then the rest of the party
will turn against you AND your positions.

#2349 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:49 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
Forty years ago Ronald Reagan took to the television and told America about a "Time For Choosing" in the 1968 election, the country didn't listen and boy was he right.  We're going to have that same chance again.

I don't agree with McCain on a lot of things, he certainly wasn't my first choice for the job either but HE IS the nominee of the party.  Unfortunately he's the one we got saddled with when the conservative vote was split amongst various candidates who failed to get out of the way so that one could emerge and defeat McCain.  This dilemma is of our own making and it's too late to go back now and say you don't like McCain and you can't work for him.

Because if that's your position you are working for Obama -- period.  We are going to need every body, every vote, every phone call we can make to defeat him come November.  He is the exact thing WE DO NOT want right now where only some of McCain is.  Obama is your typical crooked Cook County Democrat and my friends, speaking from Illinois where the entire state is in virtual chaos because of a crooked Democratic party out of control and a Republican party that has relegated itself to obscurity, you do not want the whole country to start going the way Illinois is.  That's what you will get with Obama.  He makes Clinton look like a Boy Scout.

I mean major media outlets can do stories on how he plain and simple took money and did a deal for his house with a now convicted felon and nobody seems to care.  There's only one way to stop that and that's with hard work.

I know you're disappointed, I am too.  But the plain truth of it is we have a time for choosing coming in November as Reagan said -- we can either get behind McCain, speak loudly for our ideals and ask him to represent them or we can be silent or even speak against him and watch Obama waltz into the White House with a wave of politics, dirty Illinois style, behind him.  There will be a new wave of Rezkos setting up shop in the West Wing instead of in the back rooms of Springfield, Illinois and Obama's plans make The Great Society look laissez-faire.

It's your choice.

W. Guy Finley
Co-Coordinator
Illinois


On Jun 14, 2008, at 3:21 PM, David Johnson wrote:

Many of us Ron Paul supporters are getting active in their local Republican 
parties. Four local Ron Paul supporters, including myself, have run for and 
have likely won, a spot on the county central committee. I think we can avoid 
bitter discussion over foreign policy, because this is at the county level.

But there is still the problem of McCain. The local party will expect us to 
actively campaign for all Republican candidates, including McCain. We had an 
announcement that the local GOP business meetings will be combined with the 
local McCain campaign meetings. I can handle the local and state candidates, 
but I can't stomach campaigning for McCain. It's not just his stance on the 
war, it's his big government attitude on everything else. 

I don't know if I can hold my breath all the way until November. Surely other 
RLC members have been in the same situation before. How did you manage to not 
campaign for Bush in 2000 and 2004?

-- 
David Johnson



#2350 From: David Johnson <david@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:11 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
kilderfirkin
Send Email Send Email
 
On Saturday 14 June 2008 08:49:29 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
>
> Because if that's your position you are working for Obama -- period.

Whoa there, pardner! This isn't a black and white world. The sheeple may be
content with choosing between two evils, but I am not. I'm not asking how I
can support McCain, I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting
McCain.

We are in this mess precisely because our party kept voting for the lesser of
two evils. Well, the lesser evil is still evil! My vote is most likely going
towards Barr. As a party committee member, I cannot campaign for him, but in
the privacy of the ballot box I'm going to follow my conscience.

The Republican Party isn't a football team, I shouldn't be forced to vote for
a guy just because he puts on a red jersey.

--
David Johnson

#2351 From: Jason Burkins <jason@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:23 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
jasonpatriots
Send Email Send Email
 

 I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting McCain.




You cannot. 





.
 


#2352 From: David Johnson <david@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:37 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
kilderfirkin
Send Email Send Email
 
On Saturday 14 June 2008 09:23:21 pm Jason Burkins wrote:
> >  I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting McCain.
>
> You cannot.

Then I guess I'm out of the party. Thank you for clearing that up. When even
the libertarians in the party tell me to support the fascist, the message is
clear that I do not belong.

I'll be waiting for that announcement that the RLC is endorsing McCain...

--
David Johnson

#2353 From: Jason Burkins <jason@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:18 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
jasonpatriots
Send Email Send Email
 
You are asking permission to not support the nominee of the party. As a voter, you have permission not to support him. But if you are a member of the party's leadership in your city, town, county, etc, you will have an obligation to at the very least keep quiet about your non-support of the nominee. What we all need to do is to continue to fight for the pro liberty values and candidates and encourage the discussion and debate within the party. But at the end of the day, when the votes are counted and the nominees are decided, we either have to get behind them, not stand in the way of their success or leave the party leadership. 

No one wants you to leave, we need you to help fight to change the party from within, but you have to realize as the rest of us have that McCain has won the Republican nomination and party officials cannot advocate against the nominee. 

JAB


On Jun 15, 2008, at 12:37 AM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 09:23:21 pm Jason Burkins wrote:
> > I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting McCain.
>
> You cannot.

Then I guess I'm out of the party. Thank you for clearing that up. When even 
the libertarians in the party tell me to support the fascist, the message is 
clear that I do not belong.

I'll be waiting for that announcement that the RLC is endorsing McCain...

-- 
David Johnson



#2354 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:24 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
it's simple David.  Nobody has a shot at beating Obama except for McCain, end of story.  Barr has no chance whatsoever.  So if you don't vote for McCain you are voting for Obama.  Want to joust windmills?  Join the LP.  i came back to the GOP because I was tired of "educational campaigns" and casting protest votes.  

There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.  McCain is not the ideal candidate but he's the best shot we have at beating Obama and at least having our viewpoints heard.  Do you think Obama thinks of our viewpoint at all?  Of course he doesn't, at least we have a shot at influencing McCain.

--Guy


On Jun 14, 2008, at 11:11 PM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 08:49:29 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
>
> Because if that's your position you are working for Obama -- period.

Whoa there, pardner! This isn't a black and white world. The sheeple may be 
content with choosing between two evils, but I am not. I'm not asking how I 
can support McCain, I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting 
McCain.

We are in this mess precisely because our party kept voting for the lesser of 
two evils. Well, the lesser evil is still evil! My vote is most likely going 
towards Barr. As a party committee member, I cannot campaign for him, but in 
the privacy of the ballot box I'm going to follow my conscience.

The Republican Party isn't a football team, I shouldn't be forced to vote for 
a guy just because he puts on a red jersey.

-- 
David Johnson



#2355 From: David Johnson <david@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:39 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
kilderfirkin
Send Email Send Email
 
On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:18:10 pm Jason Burkins wrote:
> No one wants you to leave, we need you to help fight to change the
> party from within, but you have to realize as the rest of us have
> that McCain has won the Republican nomination and party officials
> cannot advocate against the nominee.

I'm not asking how to advocate against the nominee, I'm asking how not to
advocate for him. There is a difference. Is there a third way? Is it possible
to be neutral with regards to one single candidate out of dozens? Must I root
for anyone the party sends my way?

I was actually looking for real world practical advice on how to avoid being
an active McCain supporter. How to campaign for other candidates without
having to campaign for him. Did everyone here actively support Bush in 2004?
If you were a party member in 2004, and did not actively support Bush, please
tell me how you did it. Did you tell the party chairman "no"? Did you print
up your own literature that didn't include Bush? Did you find other ways to
earn "brownie points" with the party so you didn't have to wear Bush
teeshirts on the weekends? What did you do?

--
David Johnson

#2356 From: David Johnson <david@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:40 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
kilderfirkin
Send Email Send Email
 
On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:24:23 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
> There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to
> get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.

We don't get the party back to its roots by rolling over and supporting
whoever the party establishment tells us to.  Why should the party care what
we think, when they know we'll wave the banner for any big government
candidate they throw our way.

--
David Johnson

#2357 From: "Sakshale eQuorian" <sakshale@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
sakshale
Send Email Send Email
 
Let me see if I can ask David's question in a different way.  I believe
his question is important, because this problem is not just about the
party's candidate for president.

Let's assume a local Republican candidate for the state senate is an out
spoken prochoice advocate, who has stated that he wants to increase state
funding for abortions and you are very prolife.  This candidate's name will be
placed on all the slates. His people will be at all the meetings, asking for
support and the chairman of the local committee has clearly stated that he
expects everyone on the committee to support and work for the entire slate.

What options, other than stepping down from your position on the
committee, are open to you?

Sakshale
PS - I understand that most Republican platforms contain prolife statements.
However, there are many things in the current platform statements that are
being ignored by many candidates, so this isn't that far fetched.

#2358 From: "John Mitchel, LtCol, USAF \(Ret" <mitch07ohio@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:21 am
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
mitch07ohio@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I have been a member of the Greene County (Ohio) Republican Central Committee since 2004, and just reelected in March, 2008.  I also ran in the 7th Congressional District GOP primary against three candidates that support our interventionist foreighn policy.  The winner was another empty-suit insider.  I cannot with a clear conscience vote for or campaign for a Republican candidate who has forgotten the GOP core values of smaller government and personal responsibility.  Although I will not vote for the Democrat either, even though in my opinion she is the "least of two evils" -- that's how bad our choice is here in Ohio's 7th District!  In any case, that's the mind set that put our children and grandchildren in grave danger, and I will not promote it because the least of two evils is still evil.  Maybe we have to crash and burn before we can rise out of the ashes and make things right.
 
John Mitchel
 
PS: I've attached a letter to the editor that should give you an idea of the dismal situation here in my district.     

David Johnson <david@...> wrote:
On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:18:10 pm Jason Burkins wrote:
> No one wants you to leave, we need you to help fight to change the
> party from within, but you have to realize as the rest of us have
> that McCain has won the Republican nomination and party officials
> cannot advocate against the nominee.

I'm not asking how to advocate against the nominee, I'm asking how not to
advocate for him. There is a difference. Is there a third way? Is it possible
to be neutral with regards to one single candidate out of dozens? Must I root
for anyone the party sends my way?

I was actually looking for real world practical advice on how to avoid being
an active McCain supporter. How to campaign for other candidates without
having to campaign for him. Did everyone here actively support Bush in 2004?
If you were a party member in 2004, and did not actively support Bush, please
tell me how you did it. Did you tell the party chairman "no"? Did you print
up your own literature that didn't include Bush? Did you find other ways to
earn "brownie points" with the party so you didn't have to wear Bush
teeshirts on the weekends? What did you do?

--
David Johnson


#2359 From: Rogel Sokolin-Maimon <rogelsm@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:11 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
rogel_sm
Send Email Send Email
 
I can count several party officials - Senators and Congressman included - that did not, and will not, endorse John McCain and they are still "good" republicans. I would assume that being good republican has a lot more to do with ideas than with supporting an accidental candidate.
On Jun 15, 2008, at 12:23 AM, Jason Burkins wrote:


 I'm asking how to be a good Republican without supporting McCain.




You cannot. 





.
 




#2360 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:16 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.

Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy


On Jun 15, 2008, at 1:40 AM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:24:23 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
> There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to 
> get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.

We don't get the party back to its roots by rolling over and supporting 
whoever the party establishment tells us to. Why should the party care what 
we think, when they know we'll wave the banner for any big government 
candidate they throw our way.

--
David Johnson



#2361 From: Mr geoff broughton <perrinvk@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:38 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
perrinvk
Send Email Send Email
 
David, the problem when asking for advice, is that people will give it.  In the end you will have to rely on your own instincts for how to handle this.

Guy, multiple replies debating why we should support McCain belong on the discussion list, not here.  Same would hold true to replies on why we shouldn't.  That is why there is a discussion list.  I thank you in advance for not continuing to spam my mail box with this discussion.

Geoff

----- Original Message ----
From: W. Guy Finley <wgfinley@...>
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:16:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Support McCain?!?!

After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.


Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy


On Jun 15, 2008, at 1:40 AM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:24:23 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
> There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to 
> get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.

We don't get the party back to its roots by rolling over and supporting 
whoever the party establishment tells us to. Why should the party care what 
we think, when they know we'll wave the banner for any big government 
candidate they throw our way.

--
David Johnson




#2362 From: DGHarrison <DGHarrison@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:42 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
huaruisheng
Send Email Send Email
 
The biggest danger I see in all this is that not a few Republicans have threatened to stay home on Election Day, rather than vote for McCain. I'm hoping these are empty threats, because staying home hurts the party worse than not voting for McCain. If Obama manages to gain the Oval Office, we will need Republicans to have at least done all the could to keep or gain seats in Congress in order to oppose the man. Staying home is political suicide. I sometimes wonder if those advocating staying home are even Republicans. Perhaps they are agents provocateur attempting to influence the weakest of our members to give up without a fight ... or maybe they're just stupid.

Doug Harrison
Minnesota

After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.

Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy


--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! ---


#2363 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:10 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
I would disagree, this list is to "discuss activism within the GOP", check the group page.  We essentially have someone asking how they can go about NOT supporting the nominee of the party.  I consider that very germane to the topic of activism in the party.

If I were out campaigning and addressing the issues with someone and they asked me about John McCain I would say "You know what, I have some issues with Senator McCain but he does hold true to many of my beliefs and he's much closer than Barack Obama is so I support John McCain.  I'll tell you who is really out there for your interests and that is Joe Smith here running for State Representative" and go from there.

The fight over a pro-liberty and individual rights candidate for president in 2008 is over, it's time to come back together, get behind the nominee and get ready for the next time around.  The primaries of 2008 should have a very strong message for us all -- failure to reconcile our differences and work together as the conservative conscience of the party is going to lead to more fissure and the inability to get a nominee who supports our ideals to advance.  That is EXACTLY what happened in this primary season.  The entire conservative wing of the party was torn asunder by the various Paul, Huckabee and Thompson groups tearing each other to pieces.  Now what are we left with?  John McCain who was left smiling every time the conservatives tore into each other.  You reap what you sew.

Sorry for spamming your inbox Geoff, I can show you how to set up rules in your email client to filter messages if you wish.  I didn't know that good healthy discussion and debate was so harmful to activism.  I see a lot of folks respectfully and politely exchanging their thoughts, what's the problem?

--Guy

On Jun 15, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Mr geoff broughton wrote:


David, the problem when asking for advice, is that people will give it.  In the end you will have to rely on your own instincts for how to handle this.

Guy, multiple replies debating why we should support McCain belong on the discussion list, not here.  Same would hold true to replies on why we shouldn't.  That is why there is a discussion list.  I thank you in advance for not continuing to spam my mail box with this discussion.

Geoff

----- Original Message ----
From: W. Guy Finley <wgfinley@rlcil.org>
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:16:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Support McCain?!?!

After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.


Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy


On Jun 15, 2008, at 1:40 AM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:24:23 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
> There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to 
> get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.

We don't get the party back to its roots by rolling over and supporting 
whoever the party establishment tells us to. Why should the party care what 
we think, when they know we'll wave the banner for any big government 
candidate they throw our way.

--
David Johnson






#2364 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:16 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
You hit it right on Doug and unfortunately many people see President as the only office worth voting for in November.  If they're not motivated to go vote for president then they probably won't go and vote and that just strengthens Obama's coattails.  Here in Illinois we have Democrats far and wide in offices as low as county board salivating off of riding Obama's coattails to victory in November.  Is that what we want?  Failure to get behind our candidate and get out the vote is going to get us that.

If a Democratic Congress behind Obama doesn't scare the living hell out of a conservative I don't know what will.

--Guy


On Jun 15, 2008, at 7:42 AM, DGHarrison wrote:

The biggest danger I see in all this is that not a few Republicans have threatened to stay home on Election Day, rather than vote for McCain. I'm hoping these are empty threats, because staying home hurts the party worse than not voting for McCain. If Obama manages to gain the Oval Office, we will need Republicans to have at least done all the could to keep or gain seats in Congress in order to oppose the man. Staying home is political suicide. I sometimes wonder if those advocating staying home are even Republicans. Perhaps they are agents provocateur attempting to influence the weakest of our members to give up without a fight ... or maybe they're just stupid.

Doug Harrison
Minnesota

After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.

Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy



--- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! ---




#2365 From: Mr geoff broughton <perrinvk@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
perrinvk
Send Email Send Email
 
I thought it was a simple request, but I guess not.  David asked how he could be a good republican and not support McCain, which probably should have been in the discussion thread, but whatever, this is now your third or fourth reply stating your position that anyone not working for McCain is working for Obama. 

discuss activism within the GOP
All I am saying is that one time is enough on the Action list, after that it should be on the discussion list.  That is why there are two different lists. 

If I don't want my mail box spammed by 1 person saying the same thing over and over again using every excuse to post his position, I can simply not subscribe to the discussion list. 

I get this discussion at every GOP function I attend.  You are not saying anything I have not already heard in person from people I know.  I don't need to have to take 10 minutes deleting spam every time I check my e-mail.

And know how to add you to my spam filter, I would rather not have to do that in case you have something important to say later.

Geoff



----- Original Message ----
From: W. Guy Finley <wgfinley@...>
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 7:10:11 AM
Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Support McCain?!?!

I would disagree, this list is to "discuss activism within the GOP", check the group page.  We essentially have someone asking how they can go about NOT supporting the nominee of the party.  I consider that very germane to the topic of activism in the party.


If I were out campaigning and addressing the issues with someone and they asked me about John McCain I would say "You know what, I have some issues with Senator McCain but he does hold true to many of my beliefs and he's much closer than Barack Obama is so I support John McCain.  I'll tell you who is really out there for your interests and that is Joe Smith here running for State Representative" and go from there.

The fight over a pro-liberty and individual rights candidate for president in 2008 is over, it's time to come back together, get behind the nominee and get ready for the next time around.  The primaries of 2008 should have a very strong message for us all -- failure to reconcile our differences and work together as the conservative conscience of the party is going to lead to more fissure and the inability to get a nominee who supports our ideals to advance.  That is EXACTLY what happened in this primary season.  The entire conservative wing of the party was torn asunder by the various Paul, Huckabee and Thompson groups tearing each other to pieces.  Now what are we left with?  John McCain who was left smiling every time the conservatives tore into each other.  You reap what you sew.

Sorry for spamming your inbox Geoff, I can show you how to set up rules in your email client to filter messages if you wish.  I didn't know that good healthy discussion and debate was so harmful to activism.  I see a lot of folks respectfully and politely exchanging their thoughts, what's the problem?

--Guy

On Jun 15, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Mr geoff broughton wrote:


David, the problem when asking for advice, is that people will give it.  In the end you will have to rely on your own instincts for how to handle this.

Guy, multiple replies debating why we should support McCain belong on the discussion list, not here.  Same would hold true to replies on why we shouldn't.  That is why there is a discussion list.  I thank you in advance for not continuing to spam my mail box with this discussion.

Geoff

----- Original Message ----
From: W. Guy Finley <wgfinley@rlcil. org>
To: RLC-Action@yahoogro ups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 6:16:59 AM
Subject: Re: [RLC-Action] Support McCain?!?!

After they win the nominantion, yes we do.  It's not "rolling over", it's getting behind the nominee of the party.


Maybe if folks could have been working for a conservative who actually had a chance to win we wouldn't be in this position right now but we are.  He's the nominee, he's not perfect, but he's better than Obama and those are your two choices.

--Guy


On Jun 15, 2008, at 1:40 AM, David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 10:24:23 pm W. Guy Finley wrote:
> There's only one shot at liberty and that's working within the GOP to 
> get it back to its roots and that's why I'm in the RLC.

We don't get the party back to its roots by rolling over and supporting 
whoever the party establishment tells us to. Why should the party care what 
we think, when they know we'll wave the banner for any big government 
candidate they throw our way.

--
David Johnson







#2366 From: "Eric Rowe" <e_rowe@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 1:42 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
e_c_rowe
Send Email Send Email
 
--- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
> I don't agree with McCain on a lot of things, he certainly wasn't my
> first choice for the job either but HE IS the nominee of the party.
> Unfortunately he's the one we got saddled with when the conservative
> vote was split amongst various candidates who failed to get out of the
> way so that one could emerge and defeat McCain.

That's just wishful thinking on your part. Not one of the main
Republican contenders was any more conservative than McCain overall.
Huckabee is more conservative on the social issues, but far more
liberal on everything else. Giuliani is more conservative fiscally,
but considerably more liberal socially. Romney is on par with McCain
at best--he promised more spending and changed his social positions
every time it was politically expedient--and only managed to get
conservatives to support him by tapping into the common misconception
that being pro-big business is conservative, even it it's via policies
that increase the size and scope of government. The only candidates on
any primary ballots who ran as conservatives were Ron Paul, Fred
Thompson, and Duncan Hunter. Adding the support of all of the
conservatives together wouldn't have beaten any one of the big three
liberals, McCain, Romney, and Huckabee.

The moderate majority of the GOP owns the party. It has the lion's
share of power and is willing to use it by any means necessary to
further marginalize the conservative element of the party (as many
conservative delegates to state conventions, like mine in Indiana, are
learning first hand this year). This is an imbalance of power that has
gotten progressively worse for conservatives in the party over time.
And every time we reward them for selecting a nominee who merely
offers Democrat-lite ideas, we make them stronger and set back any
efforts to reform the party even more. I'm also a precinct
committeeman, and was a delegate to my state convention, and will be
supporting everyone except McCain. I frankly hope he loses. Gaining
what miniscule advantages he offers over Obama (if there are any at
all) is not as important as the long-term goal of reforming the GOP. I
think some of the other responders who suggested we take a passive
approach to McCain while we actively support conservative candidates
farther down the ticket who we want to gain more power in the party is
the right approach. There's nothing wrong with doing this. There are
still plenty of Republicans holding high office who themselves will
not publicly support McCain.

A lot of Democrats demonize those who voted for chose to vote for
Nader in 2000, rather than Gore, who at that time ran as a centrist.
As a result, the party has gotten progressively more liberal,
appointed a far left DNC chair, and offered more liberal candidates in
2004 and now in 2008, when they are have a cakewalk to the
inauguration with their most liberal candidate ever. The Democrats are
Nader's party now because a fraction of them decided in 2000 that
reforming the party was more important than seeing Gore beat Bush.
Here's a good article that makes that case:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11018.html

#2367 From: Chris Farris <chris@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:21 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
j_chris_farris
Send Email Send Email
 
David,

You ask a good question. Like all good questions, the answer is "it
depends".

It depends on what state you are from. Here in Jawja McCain is despised
by many for being McAmnesty. Its a silly position to take in my book, as
the reason people come here illegally is that we don't make it realistic
to come here legally. McCain attempted to work on that solution and had
his head handed to him.

It also depends on why you can't support McCain. Is there nothing about
McCain you can support? His steadfast opposition to earmarks? His votes
against the Bush Tax Cuts because the refused to first address spending.
His vote against Medicare Part-D?

Finally it depends on what you are required or asked to do as a central
committee member. When I served on my county executive committee my main
duties were organizing and manning booths at county fairs, corralling
volunteers to march in parades, and arranging to local candidate
meet-n-greets at the local Carvel.

Is your dislike for McCain so great you can't site behind a table with
McCain bumper stickers? Because as a Central Committee member you'll
probably be asked to find volunteers to work that table with you. A few
potential volunteers will probably tell you "I'd like to help the party,
but I can't support a big government nominee like John McCain". And now
you've got a new recruit into the RLC.

Your party chairman could ask you if you'd be willing to put up signs
the night before the election. Republicans tend to understand both
family and work concerns and if you told your Chairman you had to work
that next day, or you needed to stay with the kids and couldn't be out
late they would probably understand.

I think it is quite possible to not directly support McCain while doing
the best of for the congressional and down-ticket races.

You said "the local GOP business meetings will be combined with the
local McCain campaign meetings." That could be an opportunity to see how
a presidential campaign is run at the local level. It depends on how
long are you willing to sit silent and bite your tongue?

The key thing to remember is that you need to balance party loyalty with
ideological loyalty. You need to do that in a way that doesn't alienate
you from the rest of your local party yet doesn't turn you into an "any
republican is better than any democrat" party regular. Having a good RLC
chapter in your local area can help.

For the past year and a half I've been speaking out more and more
against the President within my local party and I'm getting a lot more
nods of agreement. But I think the key difference between my Bush-hating
and the Bush-hating from the left is that when the President is right
(rarely) I'll actually give him the credit he is due. If you can find
two or three positive things to say about McCain you'll up the
credibility of your criticisms of him.

Finally, the modern GOP was formed as an alliance between three major
ideological interest groups in the 80s under Reagan: The Christian
Conservatives, the Smaller Government movement and the National Defense
crowd. They allied to battle the Godless Communist Russians (for those
reasons respectively). Since the fall of the Soviet Union there hasn't
been a unifying theme to keep all those groups together. Gingrich tossed
a few bones to our wing of that triumvirate (Welfare reform, get rid of
the DOEd) but we haven't been as active in grass roots politics as the
other two wings. Getting involved in your county party, telling your
state representatives and senators how you feel will help to either
restore balance - or strengthen the core of the libertarian/small
government wing of the GOP in the struggle for control that is soon to
happen with us now in the minority.

Good luck, and please let us know how it all turns out.

Chris

PS. Thank you for starting this thread - its been the most on topic
discussion I've seen on this list since I joined 2 years ago.

David Johnson wrote:
>
>
> Many of us Ron Paul supporters are getting active in their local Republican
> parties. Four local Ron Paul supporters, including myself, have run for and
> have likely won, a spot on the county central committee. I think we can
> avoid
> bitter discussion over foreign policy, because this is at the county level.
>
> But there is still the problem of McCain. The local party will expect us to
> actively campaign for all Republican candidates, including McCain. We
> had an
> announcement that the local GOP business meetings will be combined with the
> local McCain campaign meetings. I can handle the local and state
> candidates,
> but I can't stomach campaigning for McCain. It's not just his stance on the
> war, it's his big government attitude on everything else.
>
> I don't know if I can hold my breath all the way until November. Surely
> other
> RLC members have been in the same situation before. How did you manage
> to not
> campaign for Bush in 2000 and 2004?
>
> --
> David Johnson
>
>

--
Chris Farris 		 chris at gopliberty dot org
Chairman 		 404 806 1403
Republican Liberty Caucus of Georgia http://www.gopliberty.org

#2368 From: "W. Guy Finley" <wgfinley@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
progboatguy
Send Email Send Email
 
The whole post was really good Chris especially this paragraph:

On Jun 15, 2008, at 9:21 AM, Chris Farris wrote:

The key thing to remember is that you need to balance party loyalty with 
ideological loyalty. You need to do that in a way that doesn't alienate 
you from the rest of your local party yet doesn't turn you into an "any 
republican is better than any democrat" party regular. Having a good RLC 
chapter in your local area can help.


While I wouldn't call myself a regular who thinks that any Republican is better than any Democrat, this race is a no-brainer.  I still don't think you can tacitly stand aside in this one as you suggested in a couple of parts but that doesn't mean you have to be a cheerleader for him either which I think you would agree.  All-in-all I agree with you though.

Thanks for the great post and I agree this is a great discussion, probably the best RLC one I've seen in some time as well.

--Guy

#2369 From: "George Blumel" <gblumel@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 6:08 pm
Subject: RE: [SPAM] Re: Put Your $$ Where Your Mouth Is ...
gblumel
Send Email Send Email
 

Louis is right, of course.  Guy says Barr is a “viable” candidate. Guy needs a dictionary and some thoughtful reflection. As bad as the Repub candidate is in many important ways, Obama is infinitely worse for the Republic –and it is the Republic that we must work to preserve. As for Barr, if you just reported his conservative votes over the years, he would look good. But, his subsequent work with the ACLU against the Homeland Security is appalling.  Barr, like other notable pols, voted for it before he decided to be against it. He authored the Defense of Marriage Act and now, on the ACLU payroll, he opposes the Federal Marriage Amendment.  Talk about Jeremiah Wright damning America –ACLU was there first.  I’m sure that there are other good reasons to oppose Barr as there certainly are reasons to oppose the other two candidates. But think about the Republic –what does a vote for Barr accomplish?  It would probably help Obama, right?  As bad as McCain is, he will have some solid people around him and that may help us get through his four years by which time we can regroup and recover. Would we recover from an Obama + Dem House and Senate?   Surely not without a lot more damage.

 

Here’s a plan: hold your nose and vote for McCain. But work hard for good libertarian/conservative candidates for congress –we have quite a few opportunities including a good one in my district, Allen West (#22 FL).  Check out the www.clubforgrowth.org for the others.  –Geo.

 


From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis William Rose
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:56 AM
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [SPAM] [RLC-Action] Re: Put Your $$ Where Your Mouth Is ...

 

My mouth says that I am a Republican and that is where my money is
going.

--- In RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com, "Guy McLendon" <guy@...> wrote:
>
> Hey dudes . we have a campaign to run, and a candidate to support.
>
>
>
> Please take this moment to open your wallets, and "walk the walk".
>
>
>
> http://www.bobbarr2008.com/
>
>
>
> From the perspective of the American electorate, Bob Barr is the
most viable
> candidate we've had in many election cycles .
>
>
>
> Liberty needs a voice, and Americans need a choice.
>
>
>
> The Republicans & Democrats are not our voice, and they give us no
choice.
>
>
>
> Please help put the LP into the playing field. Bob Barr can't do
this
> alone.
>
>
>
> I just dropped another $100 into Bob's campaign coffers . will you
please do
> the same?
>
>
>
> Guy McLendon
>
> Chair Harris County LP
>
> Houston, Texas
>
> www.harrislp.org <http://www.harrislp.org/>
>


#2370 From: westmiller@...
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
rlc_westmiller
Send Email Send Email
 
Posted by: "David Johnson"
> ... is there any official RLC literature available?
> I could always include that literature as well.
    We should have it on our website, but drop me
a person email for the ZIP file with several RLC
brochures, including source code and fonts.
They can be printed on almost any computer
printer from the PDF versions. And, a very good
idea if you are obliged, as a party officer, to
distribute party materials, to include an RLC
brochure.
 
    As for "supporting" McCain, I've never heard
of any GOP officer being penalized for not being
enthusiastic about any particular candidate ...
though "social ostracism" at the local level,
if you're outspoken, can be expected.
    Remember, this is politics. When asked if
you support McCain, all you have to say is that
you want his opponent to be defeated. If you
have to add "I could be more supportive if he had
a reasonably position on [this] position," nobody
is going to kick you out of the party.
 
    Of course, the RLC has no rule requiring any
member or officer to support any candidate ...
not even those we endorse. However, as an
officer of the RLC, you cannot use any RLC
resources to "support" any candidate of any
other party against an official GOP nominee.
That doesn't mean that you, as an individual,
can't send your own money to some other
campaign and vote for any evil your please.
[The only "perfect candidate" is yourself.]
 
Bill




Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best 2008.

#2371 From: Chris Edes <chrisedes@...>
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:04 pm
Subject: Re: Support McCain?!?!
chrisedes1
Send Email Send Email
 
David Johnson wrote:

On Saturday 14 June 2008 04:56:37 pm Steve Gresh wrote:
> Tell your local Republican Party members that God told you not to
> campaign for McCain and that you will burn in Hell if you do.

Actually, I was looking for a serious answer.


I know people who believe this in all seriousness.  If you cared about abortion, you might have serious concerns, about McCain's weakness in terms of open and forthright conduct, and adherence to principle.  McCain is even less a social conservative than he is a fiscal conservative.

There's so much not to like about McCain, that this discussion is urgently needed for all grassroots activists.  Perhaps I could recommend a series of pamphlets entitled "Why McCain is Not So Bad" or "McCain: A man often tolerant of freedom".

(full disclosure: I will vote for Bob Barr)

Chris


#2372 From: michael franks <michaelafranks@...>
Date: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:06 am
Subject: I made it National ;)
modellooks4u
Send Email Send Email
 
Once again, I made it as a delegate to the National Convention!!!  This time in a new Congressional District as I moved from Texas CD14 (Ron Paul's district) to CD10 (about 45 miles away in Houston)
 
They ran a "slate" and I was the only one who broke the slate in the room!!!!   
 
In Texas, we get 3 delegates and 3 alternates per congressional district. 
 
Minnesota here I come ;) haha
 
Michael Franks

 

#2373 From: "Steven J Burden" <steve@...>
Date: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:24 am
Subject: RE: Virginia House Races
sjburden
Send Email Send Email
 
Super, Ken! Way to go. This should get an article on the RLC site, for sure.
 
Are you going to be at the Convention this year, too?
 
 
-Steve
 
 


From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of R. Kenneth Lindell
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 6:33 AM
To: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [RLC-Action] Virginia House Races

I won my Maine House primary:

-          Ken Lindell

lindell

coolidge

southworth

orland

44

44

1

Frankfort

55

10

15

Prospect

16

8

7

Stockton Springs

67

29

51

Verona Island

22

18

0

Searsport

25

34

108

229

143

182

From: RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com [mailto:RLC-Action@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of westmiller@aol.com
Sent: 06/11/2008 12:35 AM
To: rlc-action@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [RLC-Action] Virginia House Races

RLC endorsed candidates did well, but not good enough
in Virginia Primaries:
8th CD:
Mark Ellmore: 56% -- Amit K. Singh: 44%
10th CD:
Frank R. Wolf: 91% -- Vern McKinle: 9%


**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)


#2374 From: westmiller@...
Date: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:43 pm
Subject: Re: [RLC-National] I made it National ;)
rlc_westmiller
Send Email Send Email
 
rmiller451@... writes:
> I was the  only Ron Paul supporter elected ...
From: michael franks
> I made it as  a delegate ...
jap1@... writes:
> I'm an Alternate Delegate  ...

Super. Which one of you wants to take  charge
of making the RLC visible at the convention? The
booth seems out of  the question, but there must
be other opportunities (hospitality suite,  lapelpins).
Volunteers?

Bill




**************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)

#2375 From: Mr geoff broughton <perrinvk@...>
Date: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:01 am
Subject: Re: Re: [RLC-National] I made it National ;)
perrinvk
Send Email Send Email
 
Another good place to find activist would be at Dr Paul's rally also in St. Paul.  Getting a booth there may be something reasonable.

----- Original Message ----
From: "westmiller@..." <westmiller@...>
To: rlc-action@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2008 8:43:17 PM
Subject: [RLC-Action] Re: [RLC-National] I made it National ;)

rmiller451@aol. com writes:
> I was the only Ron Paul supporter elected ...
From: michael franks
> I made it as a delegate ...
jap1@peoplepc. com writes:
> I'm an Alternate Delegate ...

Super. Which one of you wants to take charge
of making the RLC visible at the convention? The
booth seems out of the question, but there must
be other opportunities (hospitality suite, lapelpins).
Volunteers?

Bill

************ **Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
2008. (http://citysbest. aol.com?ncid= aolacg0005000000 0102)



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