What about the Deepeeka AH3264B, brass handled, slightly embossed scabbard
model?  I haven't seen a lot of pugiones that have brass plates on the handle,
but that only means that I haven't seen them, not that they didn't exist.  It's
the first one listed in the Deepeeka section.  How would that go for a late 1st
Cent BC, early 1st Cent AD impression?

DemTex

--- In Pugio@yahoogroups.com, "David" <dwills777@...> wrote:
>
> What about the Deepeeka AH3264B, brass handled, slightly embossed scabbard
model?  I haven't seen a lot of pugiones that have brass plates on the handle,
but that only means that I haven't seen them, not that they didn't exist.  It's
the first one listed in the Deepeeka section.  How would that go for a late 1st
Cent BC, early 1st Cent AD impression?
>
> DemTex
>
This Pugio which still usable in many groups should be phased out
a better bet is the Plain Pugio.
JOhn

Posting this message so their is "activity" and Group is not delested by
Yahoo groups
John

Hello, gang
John Maddox Roberts here. This is my first post. I've read that the Herculaneum
soldier was found with a dagger more like a small gladius than a conventional
pugio. Does anyone know where I can find a picture of this dagger?

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

The shape of the sheath is poor and the lower suspension rings are too far down
the sheath.  I would advise against this one.

Crispvs


--- In Pugio@yahoogroups.com, david clifton <primus_pilus_3@...> wrote:
>
> How is it for authenticity?
>
> --- On Sun, 1/4/09, John <jkaler48@...> wrote:
>
> From: John <jkaler48@...>
> Subject: [Pugio] New economy Pugio available from SOTW
> To: Pugio@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 11:14 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://legvi. tripod.com/ armamentarium/ id321.html
> You have to add your own rings. Steel can be used as many originals
> were steel. Hard to beat at the price.
>

It is a while since I visited here, but I have begun adding what I hope are
useful comments to some of the pictures.

Crispvs

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

All are invited to sign up

to Ludus Militis now online. at www.ludusmilitis.org

It is to be a list of photo essays and documents to assist reenactors, living
historians, and other interested parties in the "how-to" of the hobby, mostly
Roman.

The first (of many to come) document that has been posted is TACTICA, a
well-researched and footnoted Roman drill manual. Come and see what you think.

Salvete Omnes,


I've been subscribed to this list
for a while but I now need a wee
bit of help. I'm wanting to get into
Roman reenacting and I want to start
with a Pugio. I am willing to take the
time and spend a descent amount of
money for a really accurate piece. Can
someone give me any sites that I can
trust? Thanks in advance.


Curate, ut valeatis!

Tom a.k.a Aulus Aemilius Archelaus


"Bellum Est Pater Omnium"

Welcome aboard.

Right, first things first.  If you can, find a group to join.  This will give
you a lot of of the help,and information you will need.

If you are starting out, a pugio is not really your first concern.  That should
be deciding on precisely what period you want to depict.  Having decided that,
the first thing you need to do is get the correct type of clothing and footwear.
Only start on your hard kit once you have got your soft kit together.  After
all, you can't use one if you are not already wearing the other.
Next should come a military belt (again appropriate to your cosen period - be
aware that belt fashions changed every twenty to forty years) and then basic
weapons, helmet and shield.  Body armour should probably come next.  Only then
should you think about adding a pugio, which is an item which was not used by
all soldiers anyway.

If after all that, you do get yourself a pugio, be aware that pugios and their
sheaths changed over time so you need to make sure you get one which is correct
for the period you want to depict.  If you are not sure, I can probably help.

That said, if you want an accurate piece there are degrees of accuracy, from
acceptable entry level to top of the range authenticity.

If you want an acceptable 'entry level' pugio which will set you back a couple
of hundred pounds then you could check out Adrian Wink's Armamentaria site. 
These are certainly acceptable and avoid most of the problems that a lot of
cheap 'pugios' suffer from.  Be aware that like most acceptable entry level
pugios they have plain sheaths, whereas only a tiny percentage of actual sheaths
appear to have been left plain.
Armamentaria also have a small stock of a 'special edition' silver inlaid pugio.
This is definitely a cut above most of the rest.  It is properly inlaid with
silver and the sheath copies an actual example from Melun in France.  The handle
decoration is restored but is well informed from known examples.  If this pugio
took your fancy you would actually be getting quite a bargain, although you
should be aware that the quality of the leatherwork does not come up to the
standard of the metalwork.  Adrian took is own apart and replaced the leather
himself.  The main thing is the quality of the metalwork, which is also the
hardest thing to do yourself.
http://www.armamentaria.com/store/

Past this is what you might term 'custom work'

Moving on then, if accuracy was of equal importance to that of expenditure you
might check out Hans Binsfeld, who does very nice work for a very reasonable
price.  Occasionally Hans is not up to date with his knowledge of some things so
if you want him to make you a reproduction of a particular pugio and sheath,
send him pictures of the original, as well as the published report if you can
get it.  On his site I noticed problems with pugios 1, 5 and possibly 4 - never
underestimate the value of accurate information.
http://www.binsfeld-replikate.de/Info.htm

The next step up is where you get to real accuracy.

First up is Holger Ratsdorf.  Holger does excellent work and is an extremely
nice chap (I met him a few years ago).  Everything he does is to order.  Those
things he has in his online catalogue are things he has doe before and can do
again.  He has moulds for many of the smaller items and all of them copy actual
examples very closely.  He spends a good deal of time visiting museums and
attending conferences so he is very well informed.  Holger is not cheap but you
DO get what you pay for.  He can take a day or two to reply to e-mails but he is
very good to deal with.  Again send him the details of what you want and he will
give you a quote for what it will cost.
http://www.hr-replikate.de/englisch/index.htm

The other person I would heartily recommend you to is Erik Koenig.  Again I have
met Erik and he is a very nice chap and does absolutely first class work.  He
can be painfully slow to reply to e-mails though (a fortnight's wait for a reply
is not uncommon).  Like Holgar, everything he does is to order and as he spends
a great deal of time detting things asaccurate as possible, his prices are not
dissimilar to Holger's, but again, you get what you pay for.  Erik's excellent
Aurificina Treverica site showcases work he has done before and could do again
but like any custom manufacturer he does not keep a stock so will make what you
ask him for.  Therefore, if you wanted him to make one he has done before, just
tell him, but if you wanted another you would need to send him the details.
http://www.replik-online.de/

If you decide to go down the custom route, be aware that it you will have to
wait a little while, as these things take time to do and there is normally a
waiting list.  What you will get will be worth waiting for though.  If you have
access to a copy of Jurgen Obmann's book you could quote the references
contained in that.  I know Eric has a copy and I would be surprised if Holger
and Hans Binsfeld did not have access to copies.

Penultimately, some words of warning.  There is a lot of stuff available on the
internet which is, quite frankly, junk.  Avoid anything which has brass plates
attached to the sheath, is described as being embossed, is made of zinc, has a
bronze handle or appears to be cast.  DO NOT buy any kit from e-bay vendors or
such companies as 'Museum Replicas' (a very inaccurately named company) or a
whole host of other Indian junk factories and their Western outlets. 
Unfortunately I would have to advise you against buying anything from museum
shops either.  It is a sad fact that which museums seek to inform, their shops
seek to do noting but make money and are not always fussy about what they use to
do this.  Also, do not trust what you see other people using.  There is an awful
lot of suspect kit in use by poorly informed or out of date re-enactors.  If you
copy something you see other people using you may be copying mistakes.

There is no substitute for becoming well informed.  Look carefully at the
pictures on this site and familiarise yourself with how the real thing should
look before you even think of selecting one to buy yourself.

Lastly, there is always the do-it-yourself route.  If you have the time and
inclination, even if you do not feel you have the skills yet, once you know
enough about how pugios and their sheaths should look, you could have a go at
making your own.  Check out the Roman Army Talk forum, where a number of people
have carefully documented their own efforts to make their own, partly to show
off their own handiwork but also to show other people how they can follow the
example.  These threads often (although not always) have titles staring with the
words 'How to'.
http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/index.php

I hope all this helps.

Crispvs




--- In Pugio@yahoogroups.com, "Agis" <tbe4u@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
>
> I've been subscribed to this list
> for a while but I now need a wee
> bit of help. I'm wanting to get into
> Roman reenacting and I want to start
> with a Pugio. I am willing to take the
> time and spend a descent amount of
> money for a really accurate piece. Can
> someone give me any sites that I can
> trust? Thanks in advance.
>
>
> Curate, ut valeatis!
>
> Tom a.k.a Aulus Aemilius Archelaus
>
>
> "Bellum Est Pater Omnium"
>

Dear Group-Members,

I have aquired a German roman collection some time ago. One of the items is a
roman blade, found 1973 in the Rhine at Mainz (Mogontiacum).
The blade is in very well condition and is, from my point of view, a early Pugio
blade.
I have scanned through my library but I could not find an exact reference for
this.
Any help is appreciated. I have created a photo folder, name: "Not yet
identified" with three high resolution photos.
Measurements of the blade are:
Length: 28 cm 8(11 inch), width (broadest) 3,8 cm (1,5 inch)


Thank you for any comments to this blade.

Christian Ziehe
Cologne
Germany

With the length sounds like it could be late empire with the length of it


-----Original Message-----
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010 9:20:58
To: Pugio@yahoogroups.com
From: "David Wills" <dwills777@...>
Subject: Re: [Pugio] Pugio ? Blade

It's in astonishingly good condition!  The size is much too short for anything
but a pugio.  I am not educated enough in blades to make any real determination,
but it looks to me like you have quite a nice blade there.  Congratulations.

Saepe veritas est dura.

         ---M. Demetrius Abicio

--- On Sat, 11/20/10, compressore_shop <shop@...> wrote:

From: compressore_shop <shop@...>
Subject: [Pugio] Pugio ? Blade
To: Pugio@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 2:13 AM







 









       Dear Group-Members,



I have aquired a German roman collection some time ago. One of the items is a
roman blade, found 1973 in the Rhine at Mainz (Mogontiacum).

The blade is in very well condition and is, from my point of view, a early Pugio
blade.

I have scanned through my library but I could not find an exact reference for
this.

Any help is appreciated. I have created a photo folder, name: "Not yet
identified" with three high resolution photos.

Measurements of the blade are:

Length: 28 cm 8(11 inch), width (broadest) 3,8 cm (1,5 inch)



Thank you for any comments to this blade.



Christian Ziehe

Cologne

Germany

It is a type 'A' blade with a rod tang.  It is reasonably narrow but this is far
from unusual and the length, although it is indeed long, is still within the
known range for first century AD pugios.  I would tentatively ascribe a mid to
late first century AD date, although with no context to inform us it is
impossible to be sure.

Do you know if it was found in association with other things which might date it
more securely?

Crispvs

Dear group-members,

thank you for your answers. Unfortunately I was told that blade was a single found without a context (as it happens mostly for river finds). At Mainz (Mogontiacum), legions were stationed from 13 AC to the end of the 3rd century. So this gives also no "narrowing" point.

Can somebody please let me know some specialist literature referring to pugio types ?

Thank you

Christian 

I just noticed how much like the photo on this group's cover picture your blade
is.  Can they be compared that way?

--- In Pugio@yahoogroups.com, "compressore_shop" <shop@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Group-Members,
>
> I have aquired a German roman collection some time ago. One of the items is a
roman blade, found 1973 in the Rhine at Mainz (Mogontiacum).
> The blade is in very well condition and is, from my point of view, a early
Pugio blade.
> I have scanned through my library but I could not find an exact reference for
this.
> Any help is appreciated. I have created a photo folder, name: "Not yet
identified" with three high resolution photos.
> Measurements of the blade are:
> Length: 28 cm 8(11 inch), width (broadest) 3,8 cm (1,5 inch)
>
>
> Thank you for any comments to this blade.
>
> Christian Ziehe
> Cologne
> Germany
>

Does anyone have pics of pugiones definitely from the Republican era? For
simplicity, let's say 1st century BC and earlier. I'd be grateful.
John

http://asdasd9115.diamondstorepharmacy.net/?camp=rubern

I've just posted photos of my new Mainz-handled pugio from Mark Morrow. It's
patterned after the one found on the Herculaneum soldier.