July 26th, 1976

Giving four lectures, traveling in and out of London and going up and down the stairs in each place he visited yesterday put a great strain on His Divine Grace. He rested almost the entire morning, although he has begun to eat more today. He allowed Harikesa Maharaja to bring a newly arrived letter from Jayapataka Swami, and he promptly answered it.

Jayapataka Maharaja first reported on the progress of the land acquisition application. Now it is in the hands of the Chief Minister of Bengal, awaiting his approval. Jayapataka suggested it may be necessary for Srila Prabhupada to meet personally with him.

Mayapur also had a visit from the Pro-Vice-Chancellor of the University of Calcutta and a group of professors. Jayapataka Maharaja said the Chancellor was writing an approval, with some conditions, for an application we have made to start a Ph.D. college. The devotees fed them sumptuous prasadam which they found so tasty they requested more for their families at home. The gurukula boys did a recitation by memory of the first chapter of Gitar-gan which gave the visitors great pleasure.

Apart from this he said they were about to publish the first Bengali Bhagawat Darshan in several years.

Jayapataka ended with a sincere homage. "Your books are a source of refuge for the whole world, because they are revealing Krishna and devotional service to Krishna. This has not been done before. ... Therefore, everyone is in great debt to Your Divine Grace. As your humble disciples kindly be pleased to empower us to enlighten everyone about your glories."

Prabhupada's response to the suggestion that he meet the Chief Minister over the acquisition proposal was interesting. Rather than agreeing, he replied, "As far as going to see the Chief Minister is concerned, let him decide on the merit of the report. A full report is there in hand, so let him decide as he likes. If the Chief Minister comes to Mayapur then that is all right. Otherwise officially whatever he likes he can decide on the merit of the project."

As far as the approval of the University Vice-Chancellor was concerned Prabhupada told him "First we must know the conditions which they are asking of us to fulfill. It was very good that they liked the prasadam. Introduce the recitation of Gitar gan in every school. That will be a nice credit."

He appreciated Jayapataka's final prayer and humbly returned the praise. "The latest report from Tamal Krsna Goswami is that we are selling $60,000 worth of our books daily. It is because you are helping me that all this has become possible otherwise how can I do anything alone, ekaki amara nahi paya bol, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that I cannot do anything, alone I am helpless. So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself and He wants the help of His devotees and what to speak of me."

* * *

Gurudasa Maharaja brought George Harrison to see Srila Prabhupada at 3:00 in the afternoon. George is an old friend of Gurudasa and Mukunda and he was happy to respond to Srila Prabhupada's invitation to come and see him. George has not been very actively involved with us lately, but he is still very favorable and certainly likes to chant the maha-mantra. George struck me as a good candidate for spiritual advancement -- unpretentious and humble. He lacked the air of self-importance one usually associates with those who have attained some status in life, and he was at ease in the presence of devotees.

Prabhupada was resting in bed when he arrived. There is a standing rule that Srila Prabhupada is never to be woken for any reason, but for George, Prabhupada made an exception. I went into the bedroom and informed him George had arrived.

"Yes, bring him immediately," he said. And then, rather than come into the sitting room, he sat up in bed to talk to George.

When he entered Prabhupada had a seat brought for him and instructed us to feed him some prasadam. We set up small tables for George and some of the senior men. Prabhupada engaged him in light conversation as they ate.

Having been informed of Srila Prabhupada's illness, George inquired, "How do you feel?"

Prabhupada smiled. "I have old man's disease, cough and cold, so coughing. But still, work is going on. And I shall complete eighty years this month, September, eighty-one. So now, due to age, it is becoming little difficult." Then Prabhupada asked George how he was and if he was still chanting.

George said he was, and Prabhupada replied, "Thank you. That is our life and soul. Grhe va vanete thako, 'ha gauranga 'bole dako. Wherever you live, it doesn't matter, chant Hare Krsna. That's all. That is our only support."

George complimented Srila Prabhupada that he was pleased to see that his disciples were looking healthy and strong.

Prabhupada chuckled. "Yes. Phalena pariciyate. By the result, one has to study. Yesterday, one devotee's father and mother came, Hari Sauri. She and his father were very pleased to see him healthy, bright. So we are inviting everyone, 'Come here. Such a nice house given by George. You live here comfortably, eat nicely and chant Hare Krsna.' We don't want any factory work." Prabhupada laughed. "Simply karatala and mrdanga. Still, people do not come. They'll prefer to go the factory, whole day work in the hell."

"I suppose some day the whole of the world will just be chanting in the country," George mused.

"That is not possible," Prabhupada said, "but if some of the leading men, they take it seriously, then others will follow. Just like in our book, your signature is there, 'Oh, George Harrison. Yes.' They take it without any consideration, Krsna book. Yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janah. If the leading man does something, then his followers also do. This is the way. So if some of the leading men of the world, they take this Movement seriously, then people will be happy. There's no doubt about it."

All the while Prabhupada attentively supervised the serving of prasadam. Noticing which preparations George had a taste for, he told us to give him more. At the same time he kept him at ease with sweet words. "Hare Krsna. You give him two more samosas, he likes it. Yes. All the boys and girls are so nicely qualified for Krsna's service."

George expressed pleasure at seeing his old friends. "They are looking better and better all the time. It's nice for me to see Gurudasa. He's turning into a mountain!"

Prabhupada smiled. Then, referring to Yamuna dasi, he said, "His wife has also [become] sannyasi, renounced. Have you seen her lately? She has cut hair and white dress, living alone in the temple. Vairagya-vidya-nija-bhakti-yoga. This bhakti-yoga means vairagya-vidya, means detachment. That is the perfection of life. If we remain attached, that is conditional. Maya has made so many things attractive so that we have to remain attached. And to come out of this attachment is called bhakti."

Referring to the current drought, George said there was a lot of concern over how dry it was. He said some claimed it was a result of too much pollution.

Prabhupada told him it was the result of too much sinful activity, especially the killing of innocent animals. Prabhupada also told Jayatirtha prabhu to arrange for the Manor's grounds to be watered as he was concerned the grass was yellowing.

George ate steadily with Prabhupada ensuring he had enough. When he offered more samosas, George laughed. "I've got plenty, thanks."

Prabhupada also laughed. "Prasadam, we can eat up to the neck! There is no harm. You'll never get indigestion. You have got some fruits?"

Prabhupada continued to encourage him, offering cauliflower, mango drink and other preparations. "Take little."

George was doing his best, responding warmly to Prabhupada's hospitality. "I can't finish," he laughed. He said he had been sick with jaundice recently. He had turned yellow and his liver had been affected. He thought he had contracted it from eating Chinese take -- away food.

Srila Prabhupada advised him to cook simple foods for himself.

As conversations are wont to do, theirs meandered from one subject to another. Prabhupada mentioned our growing number of Govinda's restaurants, and asked George if he had met Ambarisa. He also filled him in on the successful New York Ratha-yatra.

Prabhupada also told him about the Mayapur project. "We are just attempting a big planetarium in Mayapur. We have asked government to acquire land, three hundred and fifty acres. That is negotiation going on. We shall give a Vedic planetarium."

Gurudasa furnished some of the details. "The planetarium will be three hundred fifty feet high and show the cosmology of the spiritual world."

Prabhupada added, "The construction will be like your Washington capital, like that."

"A big dome?" George asked.

"Yes. Estimated eight crores of rupees." Then Prabhupada offered him more dal and fruit.

George was grinning as he said, "Very good. Fantastic. Maybe just a little bit of, but now I'm not ... Thanks. That's fine. No, okay, thanks, fine, that's enough, that's fine."

Prabhupada smiled. "That watermelon, you can give. It is water."

Prabhupada asked George if he was reading his books at all.

George said he was, mainly the Krsna book. "Mukunda gave me the new books, but there's so much in, ah, there's just so much to read. I don't know how anybody could have written it; it's difficult enough to read all that amount."

Prabhupada acknowledged his appreciation. "Sometimes they are surprised how one man can write so many books, but it is Krsna's grace," he said humbly. "Otherwise not possible. For a human being, it is not possible."

As they chatted, Prabhupada ensured a steady flow of prasadam. "Pradyumna, give him little, this one here."

"Oh, no, no. Please, no more," George laughed. "I'm really full. I won't have to eat for a few days."

That was the signal for the finale. "Sweets," Prabhupada offered.

George smiled and conceded. "Very well."

"Sweet will help you digest," Prabhupada said. To the server he instructed, "Don't give three -- at least four."

With George protesting that he wouldn't be able to eat much more, Prabhupada explained, "Three is given to the enemy. According to our Indian system, if you give somebody three, that means he is enemy."

George was a little surprised. "Oh, really? I always liked the number three."

While waiting to be served some fruit, Prabhupada listed three enemies; kama, krodha, lobha -- lust, anger and greed.

"Yes. But there's a lot of nice threes," George said.

Prabhupada agreed. "Yes. Just like Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. Three worlds, Sankha, Martya, Padma. Trinity. These are nice things."

George gallantly tackled the sweets. As he downed the last one he declared, "My compliments to the chef."

While we cleared away the small tables and pots, Srila Prabhupada thanked George for coming. "So I am very much pleased that you take so much trouble to come here."

"It's my pleasure," George smiled. Then he asked, "Are you ever going to stop traveling?"

"That is Krsna's desire. I don't want personally. But if Krsna wants, that is everything. We have got more hundred and two centers in different parts of the world."

"Still six more to go," George said, aware of the auspiciousness of one hundred and eight.

 

Prabhupada then told him about Detroit, inviting him to visit. He also mentioned New Mayapur, the French farm.

When Jayatirtha prabhu said he thought we would have a hundred and eight temples by this year, Srila Prabhupada downplayed it. "We want worker. Otherwise, Krsna is giving us so many centers. In India I can get so many places, but how to manage? Simply taking from persons. And if I cannot manage nicely, that does not look well. Therefore I say first of all get men, then take donation. There is no harm. How many devotees were living here?"

"There's about a hundred, Srila Prabhupada," Jayatirtha informed him.

 

"Yes, then it is all right. And if there was no devotees, ten devotees, then how could we manage?"

When Jayatirtha said it took ten to fifteen devotees full time to simply look after the grounds, Prabhupada revived his concern about the lack of irrigation water.

George chipped in with some knowledgeable advice about how to establish a bore well, based on his personal experience with his estate in Henly-on-Thames.

Srila Prabhupada then asked George if he would like to take a little rest after eating. George declined, suggesting that Srila Prabhupada himself might need some rest. The other devotees echoed his concern. As he sat up in his bed, his elbows resting on a pillow across his knees, Prabhupada grinned. "I am taking rest now these twenty-four hours. I have no other business than to take rest."

"Always resting at the lotus feet of Sri Krsna," Jayatirtha prabhu said reverentially.

Prabhupada paused a second and responded with devotional objectivity. "That is real rest." He quoted a verse the saintly King Kulasekhara wrote in the Mukunda-mala-stotra. "Krsna tvadiya-pada-pankaja-panjarantam. The pankaja means lotus flower. So Krsna's lotus feet is just like lotus flower. The lotus flower has stem down; and the swans, they take pleasure to go down in the water and be entangled by the stem. Have you seen their pleasure? Yes. That is their great sporting, to be entangled by the stem and come out, in this way, go deep, this is their sporting. So this Kulasekhara is praying, 'My Lord Krsna, let my swan of mind be entangled with the stem of Your lotus feet.' Adyaiva, 'immediately;' visatu, 'let enter.' Who? Manasa-raja-hamsah, 'my mind which is just like a swan.' So why adyaiva -- immediately? He says that prana-prayana-samaye. 'At the time of death,' kapha-vata-pittaih, 'when the physical condition of the body will be in disorder,' kanthavarodhana. 'At that time I shall not be able to speak. I'll ahn, ahn, but that's all. So I may not be able to chant Hare Krsna. Better I am now in good health, so let my mind be entangled in the stem of Your lotus feet.' Very nice poetry."

The Sanskrit verse rolled off his tongue once more in a rhythmic, melodious flow, pleasing the ears, minds and hearts of the small assembly. He went on, "'At that time I may be not able to utter Krsna or think of You. And now I am healthy, let me finish this business.' That means, 'Let me die immediately. Now I'm healthy, I'm quite fit.' This is the ideal. Ante narayana-smrtih. At the time of death, if one remembers Krsna, then his life is successful. Immediately he goes to Krsna. Just like Ajamila; he chanted 'Narayana,' and immediately his path to Vaikuntha became clear. So this practice means, whatever we practice all through life, there is chance of coming that remembrance at the time of death, and then life is successful. If at the time of death one can remember Krsna, then his whole life is successful."

Prabhupada told a story to illustrate this point. "Our one students, Karttikeya, his mother was very fortunate. So his mother had nothing to do with this Society, but the boy was attached, and she heard several times 'Krsna,' that this boy is attached to Krsna. At the time of her death, she asked her son, 'Is your Krsna here?' -- and died. Just see how fortunate she is. She simply uttered this word, 'Is your Krsna here?' then she died. Very fortunate. So on account of her son she got salvation.

"Otherwise, Karttikeya told me that he went to see his mother, and the mother was going to ball dance, and the mother did not receive him well. 'All right, you sit down. I'll come again.' She was such lady. But by Krsna's grace, at the time of death, she inquired her son, 'Is your Krsna here?' Very fortunate."

Prabhupada's narrative inspired George to describe his own experience of dealing with death. "When my mother died, I had to send my sister and father out of the room because they were getting emotional. And I just chanted Hare Krsna."

"Oh, very nice," Prabhupada said. "So she could hear?"

"I don't know," George said. "I don't know, she was in like a coma or something. It was the only thing I could think of. In 1970. It was the only thing I could think of that may be of value, you know."

"Anyway," Prabhupada told him, "if she has heard Hare Krsna, she'll get the benefit. Either she chants, or somebody chanting, if she hears, sravanam kirtanam, both the same thing. Little chance, sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat. So let us practice in such a way that at the time of death we may remember. That is success."

Prabhupada again asked George if he was reading Krsna book.

George said that once in while he did but he always carried a Bhagavad-gita with him wherever he went. He admitted that he wasn't a great reader.

Prabhupada chuckled. "No, you have got chance here to think soberly. But on account of your chanting 'Krsna' so many people are chanting."

George displayed his natural modestly saying, "I don't think it's on my account."

"No," Prabhupada said approvingly. "They say, 'George chants Hare Krsna.' They say, do they not?"

Mukunda prabhu assured him it was true.

"And you have got many thousands followers," Prabhupada added.

George was self-effacing. "It's nice, but I think we all ..."

 

"Anyway," Prabhupada said, "you go on chanting. That will influence." To encourage him further, he cited Rupa Gosvami in Caitanya-caritamrta. "There is a poetry, 'I do not know what sweetness there is in these two words, Krs-na.'"

The conversation then progressed to the topic of gurukula. George said that, "all kinds of strange things" were written in the newspapers about the Dallas school. He was quick to add that he didn't necessarily believe them.

The devotees also mentioned the half dozen new schools that were opened this year.

Srila Prabhupada had Pradyumna read the Sanskrit and translations for the first fourteen verses of Chapter Twelve from the newly-published Seventh Canto part three in which the brahmacari training given in the gurukula is described.

George listened carefully, and at the end of the recitation Prabhupada presented him with his personal copy of the book. George appeared to be very grateful for this.

It was evident that although George appreciated hearing the Bhagavatam verses, his mind was focused on Prabhupada's previous comment about the holy name. "Yes. But I thought you were saying something about the sound of the two sounds of Krs and na."

Ranacora dasa looked up the verse up, while George expressed his respect for Srila Prabhupada's hard labor. "These books are such a lot of work. I don't know how he did it all."

Gurudasa Maharaja explained that Srila Prabhupada translated at night, and Prabhupada added, "At night I don't sleep, not that because I am nowadays sick, but generally -- I don't sleep. At most two hours. I take little rest during daytime. So on the whole, three to four hours. But actually, I do not like to sleep."

George empathized. "No, it's a waste of time."

"I think it is. When I go to sleep I think that now I'm going to waste my time. I actually think like that."

"What's the word for it?" George said. "They call it a little death. Sleep is the little death."

Prabhupada quoted Prahlada's instructions in the Seventh Canto part two. "He's estimating you have got hundred years at most. Out of that, fifty years lost, sleep. And then twenty years playing as child, a boy." He then had me read out the verses that describe how a materially attached person wastes an entire life of one hundred years.

George showed some interest in those verses, so Prabhupada gave him that volume too. Turning to the devotees, he asked, "Krsna varna-dvayi, you have got that?"

"Ranacora found it," Jayatirtha said. Then he read, "Tunde tandavini ratim vitanute tundavali labdhaye. And the translation is, 'I do not know how much nectar the two syllables krs-na have produced. When the holy name of Krsna is chanted, it appears to dance within the mouth. We then desire many, many mouths. When that name enters the holes of the ears, we desire many millions of ears. And when the holy name dances in the courtyard of the heart, it conquers the activities of the mind, and therefore all the senses become inert.'"

Prabhupada smiled. "That is very nice poetry." He asked Pradyumna to recite the full Sanskrit, instructing me to record him doing it. "In India," Prabhupada told George, "all different states they have different alphabets, but the Sanskrit is the same; there is no change in Sanskrit. India's culture, all the provinces, they talk a little Sanskrit. If you chant this mantra according to the Sanskrit tune, oh, your admirers will take it very nicely. And that will be a great benefit to the mass of people."

George was laughing, "I don't know if they'd like it. Already they don't understand such a lot, even if you say it in English."

"That word Krsna, if they hear, that will be sufficient," Prabhupada assured him.

George told him about his visit to Vrndavana, and a song he picked up there. "We were singing, in the morning, singing this 'Jaya Krsna.' This person said to me, 'You should make it into a song in English.' So I wrote English verses, and in each chorus it has 'jaya krsna, jaya krsna, krsna krsna, jaya krsna, jaya sri-krsna; jaya radhe, jaya radhe, radhe, jaya radhe, jaya sri-radhe.' I don't know if you heard that song. It was on that Extra Texture. I wrote the English words: 'He whose eyes have seen, what our lives have been, and who we really are, it is He, jaya sri-krsna.' And then it has a chorus. 'He whose sweetness flows, to any one of those, that cares to look His way, see His smile, jaya sri-radhe,' then the chorus again. And, 'He who is complete, three worlds at His feet, cause of every star, it is He, jaya sri-krsna.' It's a nice song. I took the tune that we sang in Vrndavana, and just made it slightly different, you know, with chord patterns."

"So in your next record, you can give this." Prabhupada smiled.

Pradyumna sang the verse out loud three or four more times in a lilting, harmonic cadence. When he finished I slipped the cassette out and handed it to George.

George told Prabhupada about a friend who was trying to think of a name for his little girl. "I told him to call it Dhara, you know? 'Cause from Radha -- radharadharadha -- it becomes dhara. So he called his girl that name."

Jayatirtha pointed out how George had followed in the footsteps of the great sage Narada Muni without even realizing it. "Valmiki was a murderer, or a dacoit, thief. So he was met by Narada Muni. And he was advised by Narada Muni to please chant the holy name of the Lord and give up this thievery. So he wouldn't. So instead Narada Muni said, 'You chant mara.' Mara means 'death,' so he agreed."

Prabhupada explained. "Maramara-rama."

"Later on, this Valmiki," Jayatirtha continued, "he wrote the Ramayana after having chanting rama, mara, he became purified."

By this time it was five o'clock. The darsana had lasted one and a half hours, and everyone noticed that Srila Prabhupada was looking a little strained. Everyone took their leave and George, Gurudasa, Mukunda, Jayatirtha and the other devotees called, "All glories to Srila Prabhupada!" as they left the room.

Prabhupada smiled at George and blessed him. "Jaya. Long live!"

The devotees took George downstairs and showed him the film, Spiritual Frontier, which he liked. He left after that, full of satisfaction at the state of the temple and devotees, and enlivened by his meeting with His Divine Grace. He promised Gurudasa and Mukunda he would come again.

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => TD 3-4: London (part I)