Hi All,

Today we will finish the bodice back draft.  First shape the back armscye.
Hand draw a nice curve.  When fitting the sloper you will change this cureve
is necessary, so it's not carved in stone at this point.

You now want to do the across waist line (7).  This is your waist
measurement, divided by 4 plus 1/4 inch for ease and 3/4 inch for the back
dart.

Connect the bottom of the armscye to the waist.

Continue the working drafting line from the shoulder all the way to the
waist.  The dart is positioned half way between the center back and this
line.  The dart stops about 1 inch below the line used to draft the armscye
depth.  Also, this can be adjusted when you fit the sloper.

In a class we would now draft the back bodice and tape it in place on your
body to check shoulder slope, and the armscye depth.  Adjustments would be
made now to give us numbers to use when we draft the front bodice.

Question:  Why did I draft the back first?

Karen
fittingtips.com

Hi.

For anyone who has the new Helen Armstrong's book, I would like to
know what size are the half scale patterns at the back of the book and
should'nt they be accurate when made to 100%?

I'm trying to draft the size 10 and am really struggling.  Thinking
the above was also the same, which would sorta guide me, I got the
patterns done to 100%, but the measurements don't appear to match any
size.  If someone has made the patterns full-scale, please help me.
I would also like to know if the old edition has the same measurement
chart and blocks.

Sorry for being so long.  Thanks in advance.

shirley

>For anyone who has the new Helen Armstrong's book, I would like to
>know what size are the half scale patterns at the back of the book and
>should'nt they be accurate when made to 100%?

In my experience, it is really impossible to create perfectly accurate
patterns (especially as blocks or slopers) from 1/2 scale pictures. It is
good enough for finished patterns that do not need to be exact, but for
patterns that truly need to fit to use as your design basis, I would stay
away. The reasons are:

1. Printing is not a very accurate science, and the pages can wobble a bit
under the pres, causing skewing of the page that is imperceptible in the
original form, but problematic when enlarged. This goes for both printing of
the book, and the enlargement/copy process.

2. ANY picture is better at full size or reduced, but suffers a huge amount
in quality when enlarged.

Having a grid behind the item helps, but not necessarily enough. At least
then you have a basis for checking accuracy.

Also, the half scale are often not made from exact measurements. They are
many time an amalgam of measurements that will give you the best learning
experience while saving you time and paper when practicing.

>I'm trying to draft the size 10 and am really struggling.  Thinking
>the above was also the same, which would sorta guide me, I got the
>patterns done to 100%, but the measurements don't appear to match any
>size.  If someone has made the patterns full-scale, please help me.
>I would also like to know if the old edition has the same measurement
>chart and blocks.

I would suggest just drafting following the directions, then letting the
fitting shell be your guide. I know it can sound scary, but no matter how
accurate you were, or how accurate the author may have been, the processes
in between the two of you would likely ruin the attempt.

Heather M. Claus

Hi.

Thanks Heather.  My problem is - my shoulder slant seems to be very low
(5cms down from a straight line) where it meets the armhole, compared to the
full scale pattern (3cms) from the book.    Otherwise, I've managed the
rest.

shirley








For anyone who has the new Helen Armstrong's book, I would like to
>know what size are the half scale patterns at the back of the book and
>should'nt they be accurate when made to 100%?
>
>I'm trying to draft the size 10 and am really struggling.  Thinking
>the above was also the same, which would sorta guide me, I got the
>patterns done to 100%, but the measurements don't appear to match any
>size.  If someone has made the patterns full-scale, please help me.
>I would also like to know if the old edition has the same measurement
>chart and blocks.
>
>Sorry for being so long.  Thanks in advance.
>
>shirley
>
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>Message: 2
>   Date: Sun, 12 Mar 2000 06:28:17 -0600
>   From: "Heather M. Claus" <sewnet@...>
>Subject: Re: Please help!
>
>>For anyone who has the new Helen Armstrong's book, I would like to
>>know what size are the half scale patterns at the back of the book and
>>should'nt they be accurate when made to 100%?
>
>In my experience, it is really impossible to create perfectly accurate
>patterns (especially as blocks or slopers) from 1/2 scale pictures. It is
>good enough for finished patterns that do not need to be exact, but for
>patterns that truly need to fit to use as your design basis, I would stay
>away. The reasons are:
>
>1. Printing is not a very accurate science, and the pages can wobble a bit
>under the pres, causing skewing of the page that is imperceptible in the
>original form, but problematic when enlarged. This goes for both printing
of
>the book, and the enlargement/copy process.
>
>2. ANY picture is better at full size or reduced, but suffers a huge amount
>in quality when enlarged.
>
>Having a grid behind the item helps, but not necessarily enough. At least
>then you have a basis for checking accuracy.
>
>Also, the half scale are often not made from exact measurements. They are
>many time an amalgam of measurements that will give you the best learning
>experience while saving you time and paper when practicing.
>
>>I'm trying to draft the size 10 and am really struggling.  Thinking
>>the above was also the same, which would sorta guide me, I got the
>>patterns done to 100%, but the measurements don't appear to match any
>>size.  If someone has made the patterns full-scale, please help me.
>>I would also like to know if the old edition has the same measurement
>>chart and blocks.
>
>I would suggest just drafting following the directions, then letting the
>fitting shell be your guide. I know it can sound scary, but no matter how
>accurate you were, or how accurate the author may have been, the processes
>in between the two of you would likely ruin the attempt.
>
>Heather M. Claus
>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>___________________________________________________________________________
____
>
>
>

>Thanks Heather.  My problem is - my shoulder slant seems to be very low
>(5cms down from a straight line) where it meets the armhole, compared to the
>full scale pattern (3cms) from the book.    Otherwise, I've managed the
>rest.

I understand how scary it can be when your sloper doesn't look like the one
in the book, but it never really will, if your measurements vary from the
standard - but none of us have that problem, right? ;-)

Heather M. Claus

Hi

If our personal sloper looked exactly like the one in the book - there would be
no point in drafting patterns - the RTW and Commerical patterns would fit us
perfectly.  It is because we are NOT standard  and have to alter everything that
makes the effort of drafting worth the time.  Drafting a sloper to our
measurements means we should end up with something that fits us, including all
our alterations.

Marilyn in Brisbane

>
>I understand how scary it can be when your sloper doesn't look like the one
>in the book, but it never really will, if your measurements vary from the
>standard - but none of us have that problem, right? ;-)
>
>Heather M. Claus

>I understand how scary it can be when your sloper doesn't look like the one
>in the book, but it never really will, if your measurements vary from the
>standard - but none of us have that problem, right? ;-)
  >
>If our personal sloper looked exactly like the one in the book - there
would be no point in drafting patterns - the RTW and Commerical patterns
would fit us perfectly.  It is because we are NOT standard  and have to
alter everything that makes the effort of drafting worth the time.
>
  Hi

Well, actually I am drafting the basic size 10.

Can anyone please tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD CUP size?

shirley

Does anyone know of a good book to get to show the steps on how to get your
pattern together. I just purchased PMB and I need steps to follow like the
patterns we buy.
I hope I am on the right list.
Bernadette

PMB has construction directions.  Acrobat Reader is supplied with the CD.
Just install that and open up the Boutique Construction sheets .  On a PC
with windows go to Programs, Pattern Master 2.0, then to Boutique
Construction sheets.

Donna in Ohio
schragal@...

----- Original Message -----
From: <bbrown2009@...>
To: <PatternDesign@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:01 PM
Subject: [PatternDesign] book


> From: bbrown2009@...
>
> Does anyone know of a good book to get to show the steps on how to get
your
> pattern together. I just purchased PMB and I need steps to follow like the
> patterns we buy.
> I hope I am on the right list.
> Bernadette
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 0.0%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.  Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/937/2/_/608480/_/953139705/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Moderator mailto:Kathleen-Sews@...
>

With your PMB you should have the website address for the updates page,
where you will be able to sign up for patternmasterchatter and they will be
able to tell you what to do.
Hope this helps.

Willie Mae [Mazie] Beall
Lakeland, FL
Be true to yourself and it will be easy to be true to others!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 3/15/00 12:03:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bbrown2009@... writes:

<< Does anyone know of a good book to get to show the steps on how to get
your
  pattern together. I just purchased PMB and I need steps to follow like the
  patterns we buy.
  I hope I am on the right list. >>

Hi - Readers Dighest has a good construction book.

Check your PMB CD and the Boutique file in explore to see if there is
construction infromation.  I've seen some instruction sheets with the new
software.

Karen

PMB has construction directions.  Acrobat Reader is supplied with the CD.
Just install that and open up the Boutique Construction sheets .  On a PC
with windows go to Programs, Pattern Master 2.0, then to Boutique
Construction sheets.

Donna in Ohio
schragal@...


----- Original Message -----
From: <bbrown2009@...>
To: <PatternDesign@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2000 12:01 PM
Subject: [PatternDesign] book


> From: bbrown2009@...
>
> Does anyone know of a good book to get to show the steps on how to get
your
> pattern together. I just purchased PMB and I need steps to follow like the
> patterns we buy.
> I hope I am on the right list.
> Bernadette
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> GET A NEXTCARD VISA, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as 0.0%
> Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.  Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/937/2/_/608480/_/953139705/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Moderator mailto:Kathleen-Sews@...
>

>Well, actually I am drafting the basic size 10.
>
>Can anyone please tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD CUP size?
>
>shirley


I am not sure I understand the question.

Heather M. Claus

Hi

Bras come in different band sizes and different cup sizes, A small, B average, C
large etc. The band changes with the underbust measurement, the cup changes with
the size of the breast.  It is assumed that as a person gets larger, all
measurements change in proportion.  So the actual cup on a 38B bra would
actually be larger than the cup on a 36B bra.  Two people may have the same bust
measurement but one may be bigger all round while the other is slimmer but has a
bigger breast, so one may wear a 36B bra and the other a 34C or 32D.

All clothes (RTW, commercial patterns, drafting instructions)  are designed to
fit the "average" body with a B cup.  If your bust is smaller or larger than the
average B cup, (ie you wear an A cup or a C or D cup bra) then, depending on the
design and amount of ease, you may need to alter the pattern to make it fit you.

Think of designing a costume for fellow to wear at Halloween - same basic body. 
Design the top when you use a grapefruit to fill the bra - call that cup B. 
Then try filling the bra with a small orange (an A cup), you will need to reduce
the bust area of the costume.  Then try using a coconut shell (a C cup), you
will need to increase the bust area.

If you are unsure - start by using the pattern as it is.  If it fits - great. 
If it is too loose or too tight just in the bust area, then you will need to
adjust for smaller or larger cup size.

Hope this makes sense

Marilyn in Brisbane

>
>>Well, actually I am drafting the basic size 10.
>>
>>Can anyone please tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD CUP size?
>>
>>shirley

In the Helen Armstrong book it says to adjust for cup sizes.
I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD
CUP size?

Thanks in advance.

shirley

In a message dated 3/17/00 5:48:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
PatternDesign@onelist.com writes:

<< Can anyone please tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD CUP size?   >>
bra cup size

In a message dated 3/17/00 4:04:24 AM Eastern Standard Time,
svc1970@... writes:

<< In the Helen Armstrong book it says to adjust for cup sizes.
  I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD
  CUP size?
   >>

Hi Shirley, what page of the book are you on?  I know I've seen charts for
adjustment in degrees but not sure where.

What size bra cup do you need to adjust for.  Most drafts assumes the B cup.

Karen

What a marvelous explanation!
LyndaS, Cape Cod

>
>
> Bras come in different band sizes and different cup sizes, A small, B average,
C large Marilyn in Brisbane

>
> >Well, actually I am drafting the basic size 10.
> >
> >Can anyone please tell me what is A, B, C, D AND DD CUP size?
> >
> >shirley

This page describes how to determine your bra size:

http://www.bramakers.com/braclas.htm

Penny Beer

In a message dated 03/17/2000 4:04:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
svc1970@... writes:

> In the Helen Armstrong book it says to adjust for cup sizes.
>  I would really appreciate it if anyone can tell me what is A, B, C, D AND
DD
>  CUP size?
>
>  Thanks in advance.
>
>  shirley

Shirley, what size bra do you buy?  It will have a cup size -- A is a very
small cup and DD is a very full cup.  Patterns are designed for B cups.
Cec

>>Bras come in different band sizes and different cup sizes, A small, B average,
C large etc. The band changes with the underbust measurement, the cup changes
with the size of the breast.  It is assumed that as a person gets larger, all
measurements change in proportion.  So the actual cup on a 38B bra would
actually be larger than the cup on a 36B bra.  Two people may have the same bust
measurement but one may be bigger all round while the other is slimmer but has a
bigger breast, so one may wear a 36B bra and the other a 34C or 32D.

All clothes (RTW, commercial patterns, drafting instructions)  are designed to
fit the "average" body with a B cup.  If your bust is smaller or larger than the
average B cup, (ie you wear an A cup or a C or D cup bra) then, depending on the
design and amount of ease, you may need to alter the pattern to make it fit you.

Think of designing a costume for fellow to wear at Halloween - same basic body. 
Design the top when you use a grapefruit to fill the bra - call that cup B. 
Then try filling the bra with a small orange (an A cup), you will need to reduce
the bust area of the costume.  Then try using a coconut shell (a C cup), you
will need to increase the bust area.

If you are unsure - start by using the pattern as it is.  If it fits - great. 
If it is too loose or too tight just in the bust area, then you will need to
adjust for smaller or larger cup size.>
>>

Wow Marilyn.  Very well written.  Thanks a million.

shirley


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everyone!
I have several vintage patterns (from the 40's, etc.) that I really like and
would like to make for myself. Some of these are in size 12, 14, and 16 and
of course in the measurements they used then, which are MUCH SMALLER than
those used currently in patterns. I am a 14-16 in RTW, but usually make 16
in patterns, though my bust measurement would actually be closer to 18. The
rest of me is pretty close to the 14-16 (Honest, I'm not really THAT
mis-shapen!!LOL).
Can anyone advise me of a good method of grading these patterns up to my
size, or can they at least recommend a GOOD book on grading? I'd really like
to try some of these patterns.
Thanks in advance.
Clairee

Shirley,

Do you mean you need help changing the cup size on a pattern from the
standard B cup?  To do that you would cut across the front of the pattern
horizontally from CF to the bust dart, cutting down the center of the dart.
Then separate the two sections of the pattern piece, lowering the bottom one
by 1/2 inch for each cup size greater than B.  For instance, if you have a D
cup, lower the bottom piece 1 inch.  Then redraw the dart, which will be
larger and will still allow the front side seam to match the back.

   To add width for the larger cup size, cut the top part of the pattern at
an angle from the bust point up to the shoulder, then cut straight down from
the bust point down to the hem, parallel to CF.  At the bust point and down
to the hem, add half of whatever amount you lowered the bottom piece.  For
instance, for the D cup you would add 1/2 inch, which will give a total of 1
inch (two sides of the front). From the bust point up, taper to the
shoulder.
If this is confusing let me know and I'll be happy to clarify.

If you mean how do you determine your cup size, you need to measure your
bust and your underbust, which is, of course, just below your bust.  If the
difference is 5", it's an A cup, 6" = B cup, 7" = C cup, etc.

Karla

Hi Clairee
I have used ( The Sew Fit Manual ) for many years It is a guide tomaking
patterns fit by pivoting and sliding. It is written by Ruth Oblander
Doris  Kern and Nancy
Luedtke Zieman.. Mine is a 1978 copy . there are newer versions out but
I don't know what else they could include as the diagrams are very clear
and lots of pictues and even have miniature cardboard patterns in the
back of the book for you to follow along with the diagrams. They
describe all types of styles from Princess
to shirtwiast  skirts ,bodices ,and differant pant styles The ISBN# for
the one I have is  ISBN-066686-144317  but I know ther is a lot later
version than this one.
I saw Sandra Betzina just add the inches she needed to the side seam of
a bddice and increase the sleeve prortionately in her hgtv series just
last week . Go to the HG tv webb site and you can  probably find the
directions there under her name.
I used to take a 12 also lol no longer          Hope this helps Mary in
Tx

In a message dated 3/17/00 9:14:26 AM Central Standard Time,
clairee@... writes:

<< Hi everyone!
  I have several vintage patterns (from the 40's, etc.) that I really like and
  would like to make for myself. Some of these are in size 12, 14, and 16 and
  of course in the measurements they used then, which are MUCH SMALLER than
  those used currently in patterns. I am a 14-16 in RTW, but usually make 16
  in patterns, though my bust measurement would actually be closer to 18. The
  rest of me is pretty close to the 14-16 (Honest, I'm not really THAT
  mis-shapen!!LOL).
  Can anyone advise me of a good method of grading these patterns up to my
  size, or can they at least recommend a GOOD book on grading? I'd really like
  to try some of these patterns.
  Thanks in advance.
  Clairee
   >>
DITTO!!!  I have a TON of 40's-50's patterns and want t o learn how also!
Jean

Claire,

I have an old book called "Make Your Own Patterns" by Adele Margolis, which
shows how to grade patterns.  You can probably find it through one of the
web sites which find in- and out-of-print books, like
http://www.bestbookbuys.com  It's also a great book in general about
patternmaking.

Karla

>From: "Clairee Meeks" <clairee@...>

>Can anyone advise me of a good method of grading these patterns up to my
>size, or can they at least recommend a GOOD book on grading? I'd really like
>to try some of these patterns.


I highly recommend "Professional Pattern Grading for Women's, Men's and
Children's Apparel" by Jack Handford. It's $35.00 and can be ordered from
Southstar Supply Co. Their # is 800-288-6739 and e-mail is
southstar@.... NAYY to all the above.

Karmen Flach
kflach@...

*********************
  Clairee wrote:
  I have several vintage patterns (from the 40's, etc.) that I really like
and would like to make for myself. Some of these are in size 12, 14, and
16 and of course in the measurements they used then, which are MUCH
SMALLER than those used currently in patterns. I am a 14-16 in RTW, but
usually make 16 in patterns. Can anyone advise me of a good method of
grading these patterns up to my size, or can they at least recommend a
GOOD book on grading? I'd really like to try some of these patterns.
*********************

An understanding of pattern grading is a big help in adjusting classic
older patterns for your own figure. I have just a smattering of knowledge
in this area. However, I would use the "overlay" technique.

Take a pattern you have made up and know has been adjusted to fit you
that is similar, at least through the neck/shoulder/armseye/bust area and
lay it on your cutting surface. Put the vintage pattern either over or
under it, whichever works best, matching at the center neckline or waist
or bust point, whichever works best. Look at it and think about it a
while. Then put a piece of clean tissue paper over both and begin
tracing, pivoting and sliding as needed.

You may find that cutting out the pieces for the vintage pattern (or
trace them first as they may be fragile), placing the clean tissue over
your fitted pattern and move the vintage piece to copy the style lines
while keeping your size works best. Think about it and pin fit the new
tissue pattern as you go. Then do up a muslin.

Taunton Press (Threads magazine) has a book out, "Fitting Your Figure,"
which is a compilation of Threads magazine articles on fitting and one of
them has a good explanation of grading. Try http://www.hamiltonbook.com
>Subjects >Needlecrafts >Sewing  - they are an el cheapo clearinghouse
for books. Great site.
--
Kathleen Chevalier
No. Virginia, USA
mailto:Kathleen-Sews@...

________________________________________________________________
YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET!
Juno now offers FREE Internet Access!
Try it today - there's no risk!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.

Karen wrote

<< what page of the book are you on?  I know I've seen charts for
adjustment in degrees but not sure where.>>

Page 39 of the new edition shows how much to increase for cup size, for sizes C,
D and DD.

Karla, I only wanted to know how to determine the cup sizes since the rest is
already explained in the book.  I always thought you just measure the bust and
follow the draft, didn't know anything about adjusting cup sizes.

Thanks to all.

shirley




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]