> I don't want to make a big issue of this and make Ole feel
>uncomfortable, but if you look at his last message, you will see that he
>top-posted onto three previous messages followed by a whole load of garbage.

That was mostly my fault, I believe. I normally trim footers but I had failed to
do so in the message of mine that Ole quoted. That's why it became so long.

best regards,

/Rett

_____

Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] P� vegne af
Khemaramsi
Sendt: 5. november 2005 10:51
Til: Pali Group
Emne: [Pali] cetaso = citto ?


Dear friends


I am counfused by the declension of appamaa.nacetaso,
isn't it genitive or dative? Its case does not agree
with the implied subject, bhikkhu, then why could the
word be translated as 'with a measureless mind'?


Does this means the commentator equates
appamaa.nacetaso with appamaa.nacitto, so
appamaa.nacetaso is viewed as a word with a nominative
case?

I have not seen any post addressing this question. If so discard this
message. The term is a possessive compound in the nominative qualifying the
subject of the sentence. cetasa is derived from Sanskrit cetas. It has been
converted into a thematised a stem. The PED (I do not have Cone's revised
version) has wrongly made cetasa into an adjective.

Regards

Ole Pind



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rtner=hbtools> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Rett,

I just came back from Yangon and visited the International Theravada
Buddhist University. They actually offer one, two or three years
studies in Theravada Buddhism (in English) for interested foreign
students. I met the Pali teacher, Venerable Nodhi~naa.na, and had some
interesting talks with him.

They also have a small bookshop where you can purchase a whole range
of books on Abhidhamma, Suttanta, Vinaya, etc and also on Paa.li
language. I found Duroiselle's practical grammar and also the PTS Pali
- English dictionnary.

Thank you again for the information.

With metta,

Florent


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rett <rett@t...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >1) Is there in Yangon an institution where Pali is taught (and also
> >English spoken)? Since I will have some free time I would like to work
> >a bit on my exercises and it would be great if I could discuss about
> >them with some people proficient in Pali.
>
> Hi Florent,
>
> I've only seen this on the net, so I have no idea what the place is
> like, but you could try:
>
> http://www.mahasiusa.org/univsity.html
>
> best regards,
>
> /Rett
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Florent,

Thanks for the interesting report on your trip.  Did you by any chance see
whether the bookshop sold Pali books in Burmese script, or in other scripts than
Roman?

best regards,

/Rett

>
>
>I just came back from Yangon and visited the International Theravada
>Buddhist University. They actually offer one, two or three years
>studies in Theravada Buddhism (in English) for interested foreign
>students. I met the Pali teacher, Venerable Nodhi~naa.na, and had some
>interesting talks with him.
>
>They also have a small bookshop where you can purchase a whole range
>of books on Abhidhamma, Suttanta, Vinaya, etc and also on Paa.li
>language. I found Duroiselle's practical grammar and also the PTS Pali
>- English dictionnary.

Dear Ole and group,

>
>
>Tzung-kuen :I am counfused by the declension of appamaa.nacetaso,
>isn't it genitive or dative? Its case does not agree
>with the implied subject, bhikkhu, then why could the
>word be translated as 'with a measureless mind'?
>
>
>Tzung-kuen : Does this means the commentator equates
>appamaa.nacetaso with appamaa.nacitto, so
>appamaa.nacetaso is viewed as a word with a nominative
>case?
>
>Ole: I have not seen any post addressing this question. If so discard this
>message. The term is a possessive compound in the nominative qualifying the
>subject of the sentence. cetasa is derived from Sanskrit cetas. It has been
>converted into a thematised a stem. The PED (I do not have Cone's revised
>version) has wrongly made cetasa into an adjective.

Thanks for another correction to the PED. It will be interesting to watch out
for whether this conversion to an -a stem is used in other cases where a word
originally ending in a consonant (like cetas, manas etc) finds itself at the end
of a bahubbiihi compound in pali.

I do have Cone, but so far it only goes up to kh, so we'll need to wait a few
years to see how this word is treated there.

best regards,

/Rett

Dear Dr. Pind

Many thanks!

P:
cetasa is derived from Sanskrit cetas. It has been
converted into a thematised a stem. The PED (I do not
have Cone's revised version) has wrongly made cetasa
into an adjective.

T:
I forgot to check PED, only looked into Mizuno Kogen's
Pali-Japanese dictionary, which does not include the
information you gave. Thanks!

metta

Tzungkuen

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Hello Rett,

It mainly sells books in roman script (English) and a few books in
Burmese script. There are other bookshops around though which sell
books  only in Burmese script. I actually have the email of the
shopowner, so you could ask him if you have any special requests.
With metta,

Florent


>
> Hi Florent,
>
> Thanks for the interesting report on your trip.  Did you by any
chance see whether the bookshop sold Pali books in Burmese script, or
in other scripts than Roman?
>
>

1. Bhagavaa ajja sotaaraana.m dhamma.m desessati.
    Exalted One / today / [to] hearers / Dhamma / will teach
    Today, the Exalted One will teach the Dhamma to the hearers.

2. Bhikkhavo bhagavanta.m vandi.msu.
    monks / [to] Exalted One / bowed
    The monks bowed to the Exalted One.

3. Cakkhumanto sadaa bhaanumanta.m passanti.
    possesors of eyes / always / sun / see
    Those who have eyes always see the sun.

4. Tadaa balavanto ve.luuhi arii pahari.msu.
    then / powerful people / [with] bamboos / enemies / beat
    Then those who have power beat the enemies with the bamboos.

5. Kadaa tumhe dhanavanta.m passissatha?
    when / you / rich one / will see
    When will you see the rich one?

6. Suve maya.m siilavante vandissaama.
    tomorrow / we / virtuous ones / will bow
    Tomorrow we will bow to the virtuous ones.

7. Bhagavanto sabba��uno bhavanti.
    Exalted Ones / omniscient / are
    The Exalted Ones are omniscient.

8. Viduno kulavato geha.m gacchi.msu.
    wise men / [of] high caste one / house / went
    The wise men went to the house of the high caste one.

Hello,

As I was in Yangon I tried to install the Pali Lookup program on the
Pali Teacher's computer but with no success. I remembered having had
problems to install that program on both my desktop and laptop
computer, but managed to find a solution by googling the error
messages I got. Unfortunately this was not possible in Yangon since
the computer was not connected to the web and I could not remember how
I solved the problem at home. I think it had something to do with the
fact that the OS is Windows XP and not 98 and maybe also with some
Access components. Has anybody else also had problems installing that
program?

I have another annoying problem with that program that I find very
useful by the way. On my laptop the main window shows all the
diacritical marks and when i type aa for example it automatically adds
a diacritical mark on top of the a. On my desktop computer this does
not happen and I have to use the ignore accents options, because I
find the codes very difficult to remember. I suppose this has
something to do with the font being used since the fonts on both
computers look different, but I could not find any font option in Pali
Lookup itself. Since this is an Access based program, do i have to
change something in Access?

Thanks for your help,

Florent

Dear Florent:
              I am interested to but Duroiselle's
Practical Grammar. Please tell me the place that you
mention, so I can get it from them.
Metta
Faye

--- flrobert2000 <flrobert2000@...> wrote:

> Dear Rett,
>
> I just came back from Yangon and visited the
> International Theravada
> Buddhist University. They actually offer one, two or
> three years
> studies in Theravada Buddhism (in English) for
> interested foreign
> students. I met the Pali teacher, Venerable
> Nodhi~naa.na, and had some
> interesting talks with him.
>
> They also have a small bookshop where you can
> purchase a whole range
> of books on Abhidhamma, Suttanta, Vinaya, etc and
> also on Paa.li
> language. I found Duroiselle's practical grammar and
> also the PTS Pali
> - English dictionnary.
>
> Thank you again for the information.
>
> With metta,
>
> Florent
>
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rett <rett@t...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >1) Is there in Yangon an institution where Pali
> is taught (and also
> > >English spoken)? Since I will have some free time
> I would like to work
> > >a bit on my exercises and it would be great if I
> could discuss about
> > >them with some people proficient in Pali.
> >
> > Hi Florent,
> >
> > I've only seen this on the net, so I have no idea
> what the place is
> > like, but you could try:
> >
> > http://www.mahasiusa.org/univsity.html
> >
> > best regards,
> >
> > /Rett
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page!
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Dear friends,

I have initiated a new project known as Pali Scope!

Pali Scope! is an online Pali language resource for students of the
Pali Tipitaka. It is a free lexicordance (lexicon and concordance)
which provides the etymology, semantics and syntax of words and
compounds used in the Pali Canon. It also provides the frequency of
each word in every section of the Tipitaka, and immediate context from
the Canon for principal words, difficult words and special usage of a
word. Other features of Pali Scope! include synonyms and antonyms of
words, phrases and idioms, topical indexes and word lists, and
multilingual translations.

It will be a while before I start work on it. In the meantime, I would
like to invite everyone to give your opinions and comments. Thank you.


metta,
Yong Peng.

Hello Faye,

The shop is actually on the other side of the road of the
International Theravada Buddhist University in Mayangone, Yangon.

The exact address is:

Shop No. Ka 3
Swel Taw Pagoda Compound (the pagoda with the Buddha's tooth)
Mayangone Township
Yangon
Myanmar
Tel: 00 95 1 652 940

Are you living in Yangon?

Metta,

Florent


>
> Dear Florent:
>              I am interested to but Duroiselle's
> Practical Grammar. Please tell me the place that you
> mention, so I can get it from them.
> Metta
> Faye
>

Dear Yong Peng,
The online Pali Scope! project sounds very useful, and seems to combine
information found in PED/Cone with other features. I especially look forward to
the synonyms and antonyms (this is one of my favorite ways of learning words),
and am pleased that examples of context will be provided for words. It sounds
like a very ambitious project, and I applaud your initiative once again.
Rene
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Ong Yong Peng
   To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2005 2:29 AM
   Subject: [Pali] Project Pali Scope: The Online Pali Lexicordance!


   Dear friends,

   I have initiated a new project known as Pali Scope!

   Pali Scope! is an online Pali language resource for students of the
   Pali Tipitaka. It is a free lexicordance (lexicon and concordance)
   which provides the etymology, semantics and syntax of words and
   compounds used in the Pali Canon. It also provides the frequency of
   each word in every section of the Tipitaka, and immediate context from
   the Canon for principal words, difficult words and special usage of a
   word. Other features of Pali Scope! include synonyms and antonyms of
   words, phrases and idioms, topical indexes and word lists, and
   multilingual translations.

   It will be a while before I start work on it. In the meantime, I would
   like to invite everyone to give your opinions and comments. Thank you.


   metta,
   Yong Peng.





   - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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   [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

I am having some problems with the following 3 sentences from exercise
20 p63-64 in Buddhadatta's New Pali Course.

1)Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne
pakkhino oloketi.
[in] that / high / [in] tree / stood / monkey / [in] this / low / [in]
tree / sat / birds / looks at
The monkey which stood in that high tree looks at the birds which sat
in this low tree.

Would olokesi not be more logical than oloketi since all the other
verbs are in the past? The tense agreement seems to be wrong.

2)Bahunna.m baalaana.m puttaa tassaa nadiyaa gambhiire jale patitvaa
mari.msu.
many / [of] young ones / sons / that / [of] river / deep / [in] water
/ having fallen / died
The sons of the many young ones from that river, fell in deep water
and died.

I do not understand here the function of "tassaa" which is either
Genitive or Dative singular. Would it mean something like "the sons
living close to that river" which explains why I wrote "from that
river". Or should it rather be "tassa.m" (locative singular) which
then could be translated by:
"The sons of the many young ones [is foolish ones better?] fell in
deep water in that river and died"

3) Mama bhaataraana.m majjhimo niice pii.the nisiiditvaa aama.m
phala.m khaadati.
my / [of] brothers / medium / low / [on] chair / having sat / unripe /
fruit / eats
Having sat on a low chair , the ??? of my brothers eats an unripe fruit.
Majjhimo seems to be the subject of that sentence. I looked it up in
different dictionnaries and they don't mention any use of majjhimo as
a noun. I thought it might mean something as "middle-brother".

Thank you in advance for your help and suggestions,

Florent

Dear Florent and All,

Maybe you would know if it is possible to come to the Buddhist
Missionary University just for few months for studying Pali?
I am looking for some program in the US or elswhere which offer an
advanced Pali courses in the summer for few weeks, like the Sanskrit
intensive courses that some US universities offer during the summer.

I appreciate any information,
Yours,
Keren.

Dear Rene and friends,

thanks. I am glad that you welcome the idea. I shall keep everyone
posted on the lastest development.


metta,
Yong Peng.



--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rsalm wrote:

The online Pali Scope! project sounds very useful, and seems to combine
information found in PED/Cone with other features. I especially look
forward to the synonyms and antonyms (this is one of my favorite ways
of learning words), and am pleased that examples of context will be
provided for words. It sounds like a very ambitious project, and I
applaud your initiative once again.

Dear Dr. Pind and other friends

Would anyone of you give a comment on the 'A Critical Pali Dictionary'. Does the
research work continue? If not, why? Where to order?  Thanks in advance.

Tzung Kuen



___________________________________________________  ���°� Yahoo!��Ħ���rͨӍ
7.0 beta�����M�W·�Ԓ�����  http://messenger.yahoo.com.tw/beta.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> It will be a while before I start work on it. In the meantime, I would
> like to invite everyone to give your opinions and comments. Thank you.

I'd love to participate in development.  What kind of programming
language / database system were you planning to use?

For web-based projects I usually use PHP/MySQL, though I can also
program in Perl and would like an excuse to learn Python.

I'd be particularly interested to have a go at implementing a
'multiscript' view - ie: allowing a user to view the same Pali text
in a variety of Asian scripts.  Mostly this should be fairly
straightforward, though I suppose there's probably a few special
code sequences for various rare glyphs that might require some
specialised rules.

Also, I happen to have recently registered for a 'three-domain' package
on a new hosting provider, and have a spare domain remaining.  As
such I'm happy to pay for the domain name and pay hosting costs for
the project, if there is adequate interest in proceeding.  If the
group agrees on a domain name then I'm happy to register it
immediately.  paliscope.org?

- Walter Stanish
    Jinghong, Xishuangbanna, Yunnan, China

_____

Dear Dr. Pind and other friends

Would anyone of you give a comment on the 'A Critical Pali Dictionary'. Does
the research work continue? If not, why? Where to order?  Thanks in advance.


Tzung Kuen

Unfortunately, the dictionary project has been discontinued, primarily due
to lack of funding. At the moment it is next to impossible to purchase
copies of the CPD because the publisher who was in charge of selling and
distributing fascicles "by mistake" maculated what they had in stock. The
story is a perfect illustration of the decline and fall of Danish
scholarship.

Regards,

Ole Pind


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

9. Himavati kapayo ca pakkhino ca isayo ca vasi.msu.
    [in] Himalayas / monkeys / and / birds / and / hermits / lived
    Monkeys, birds and hermits lived in the Himalayas.

10.Pu��avato nattaa buddhimaa bhavi.
    [of] fortunate one / grandson / intelligent / was
    The grandson of the fortunate one was intelligent.

11.Kulavata.m bhaataro dhanavanto na bhavi.msu.
    [of] high caste ones / brothers / rich / not / were
    The brothers of the high caste ones were not rich.

12.Aha.m Himavantamhi phalavante rukkhe passi.m.
    I / [on] Himalaya / fruitful / trees / saw
    I saw the fruitful trees on the Himalaya.

13.Puraa maya.m Himavanta.m gacchimha.
    former days / we / [to] Himalaya / went
    We used to go to the Himalaya in former days.

14.Hiiyo saaya.m bandhumanto yasavata.m gaama.m gacchi.msu.
    yesterday / in the evening / with many relations / [of] famous ones
   / village / went
    Yesterday evening, those with many relations went to the village of
    the famous ones.

15.Vi��uno pacchaa pabhuno gehe vasissanti.
    wise men / afterwards / [of] over-lord / [in] house / will dwell
    Afterwards, the wise men will dwell in the house of the over-lord.

Cher Florent,

I'll have a crack at answering your questions on these sentences:

> I am having some problems with the following 3 sentences from exercise
> 20 p63-64 in Buddhadatta's New Pali Course.
>
> 1)Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne
> pakkhino oloketi.
> [in] that / high / [in] tree / stood / monkey / [in] this / low / [in]
> tree / sat / birds / looks at
> The monkey which stood in that high tree looks at the birds which sat
> in this low tree.
>
> Would olokesi not be more logical than oloketi since all the other
> verbs are in the past? The tense agreement seems to be wrong.

There is no problem with mixing past participles qualifying nouns with
a present tense verb.  Think of the p.p. simply acting as an
adjective.  Very literally, one could translate this as:
"The monkey that stood in that high tree looks at the birds seated in
this low tree."  Which makes sense to me.
Also, bear in mind that Pali often uses the present tense in a
historical past tense sense, so that a translator into English would
use the past tense even though the Pali verb is in the present.  Thus,
depending on the context around it, "looked at" may be quite
appropriate.  Compare the beginning of a large percentage of the
suttas in the canon which generally start off along the lines of
"Eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa (at some place) viharati", which one would
translate along the lines of, "At one time the Blessed One was living
(at X)", even though the verb is literally "is living".

> 2)Bahunna.m baalaana.m puttaa tassaa nadiyaa gambhiire jale patitvaa
> mari.msu.
> many / [of] young ones / sons / that / [of] river / deep / [in] water
> / having fallen / died
> The sons of the many young ones from that river, fell in deep water
> and died.
>
> I do not understand here the function of "tassaa" which is either
> Genitive or Dative singular. Would it mean something like "the sons
> living close to that river" which explains why I wrote "from that
> river". Or should it rather be "tassa.m" (locative singular) which
> then could be translated by:
> "The sons of the many young ones [is foolish ones better?] fell in
> deep water in that river and died"

I see "tassaa nadiyaa" as genitive syntactically associated with
"gambhire jale" not with "puttaa".  Thus "in the deep water OF that
river".
Also, I think "foolish" might be more appropriate here than "young",
since if they were very young they probably wouldn't have sons!  Also
I think the sentence is implying that they are foolish because they
allow their sons to fall in the deep water.

> 3) Mama bhaataraana.m majjhimo niice pii.the nisiiditvaa aama.m
> phala.m khaadati.
> my / [of] brothers / medium / low / [on] chair / having sat / unripe /
> fruit / eats
> Having sat on a low chair , the ??? of my brothers eats an unripe fruit.
> Majjhimo seems to be the subject of that sentence. I looked it up in
> different dictionnaries and they don't mention any use of majjhimo as
> a noun. I thought it might mean something as "middle-brother".

Yes, I take "majjhimo" here to mean the "middle-brother".  Remember in
Pali that nouns and adjectives are very fluid and often when one sees
an adjective (X, say) without an obvious corresponding noun, one would
translate it is the X one or the X person or whatever fits the context.

With metta, John

Dear Tzung Kuen,

> Would anyone of you give a comment on the 'A Critical Pali Dictionary'. Does
the research work continue? If not, why? Where to order?  Thanks in advance.

You can find a CPD for sale through

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?title=Critical+Pali+Dictionary

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?title=Critical+Pali+Dictionary

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Critical+Pali+Dictionary

Dmytro

Dear Dmytro and group,

I have had a look at the links below. As far as I can judge only complete
copies of Vol I are available. Vol II consists of 17 fascicles. None of of
the fascicles published of Vol. III are available.

Ole Pind

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] P� vegne af Dmytro
A. Ivakhnenko
Sendt: 11. november 2005 17:37
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [Pali] A Critical Pali Dictionary

Dear Tzung Kuen,

> Would anyone of you give a comment on the 'A Critical Pali Dictionary'.
Does the research work continue? If not, why? Where to order?  Thanks in
advance.

You can find a CPD for sale through

http://used.addall.com/SuperRare/submitRare.cgi?title=Critical+Pali+Dictiona
ry

http://www.bookfinder.com/search/?title=Critical+Pali+Dictionary

http://dogbert.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?tn=Critical+Pali+Dictionar
y

Dmytro


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Dear Dr. Pind and Dmytro

Many thanks for the useful information. It's indeed a
pity that CPD research does not go on and a copy of
which is so hard to get.

metta

Tzungkuen

--- Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> �G


---------------------------------
Dear Dmytro and group,

I have had a look at the links below. As far as I can
judge only complete
copies of Vol I are available. Vol II consists of 17
fascicles. None of of
the fascicles published of Vol. III are available.

Ole Pind


___________________________________________________  ���°� Yahoo!��Ħ���rͨӍ
7.0 beta�����M�W·�Ԓ�����  http://messenger.yahoo.com.tw/beta.html

Hello friends

attempt at a a critical answer:

> > Ekaayano aya"m bhikkhave maggo.

Satipatthana Sutta, more than everything else maybe, but it was said
before.
the encyclopedic instructions therein covers the 'total'-the five
aggregates,
the real way one should look at the 'self':

1 rupa- physical,
2 vedana - emotional,
3 sanna - memory-recognition
4 sankhara - conditions, the stream of being (everything experienced)
5 vinnana - consciousness as the observation, the presence of mind.

(Sankharas, to use modern terminology, is an 'emergent',
a process functionality, and consciousness is the supreme example of a
Sankhara.
it is analysed as the 'aggregarte, component, that experience all,
including itself, the experience of as distinct from 1,2,3),()

the Blessesd one declared that if any one postulates a self apart from
these
he is misled, of a wrong view.

the Sutta presents different tactics to recognize, familiar oneself
with these 'components of reality', and that's the real meanning of
'know thy self'
(and be free')

so,  naturally, 'the only way'. 'EkayanaMaggo'

                      Metta
                              Bhikkhu Jothiko

Dear friends,

this week, here are the most eminent female disciples of the Buddha.

A`nguttara Nikaya: Ekaka Nipaata
Etadagga Vagga
Pa~ncama Vagga

48. "Etadagga.m, bhikkhave, mama saavakaana.m bhikkhuniina.m
ratta~n~nuuna.m yadida.m mahaapajaapati-gotamii.
49. ... Mahaapa~n~naana.m yadida.m khemaa.
50. ... Iddhimantiina.m yadida.m uppalava.n.naa.
51. ... Vinayadharaana.m yadida.m pa.taacaaraa.
52. ... Dhammakathikaana.m yadida.m dhammadinnaa.
53. ... Jhaayiina.m yadida.m nandaa.
54. ... Aaraddhaviiriyaana.m yadida.m so.naa.
55. ... Dibbacakkhukaana.m yadida.m bakulaa.
56. ... Khippaabhi~n~naana.m yadida.m bhaddaa ku.n.dalakesaa.
57. ... Pubbenivaasa.m anussarantiina.m yadida.m bhaddaa kaapilaanii.
58. ... Mahaabhi~n~nappattaana.m yadida.m bhaddakaccaanaa.
59. ... Luukhaciivaradharaana.m yadida.m kisaagotamii.
60. ... Saddhaadhimuttaana.m yadida.m si`ngaalakamaataati.

Vaggo pa~ncamo.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Pa~ncama Vagga
fifth / part
The Fifth Part

1. "Etadagga.m, bhikkhave, mama saavakaana.m bhikkhuniina.m
ratta~n~nuuna.m yadida.m mahaapajaapati-gotamii.
this is chief / monks / my / of disciples / of nuns / of the ones of
long-standing / that is / Mahapajapati Gotami
"This is the most eminent, monks, among the well-established ones of
the nuns, my disciples: it is Mahapajapati Gotami.

etadagga = etad agga: this is chief.
- etad (dem pron) this.
- agga (adj) chief, best, excellent.
bhikkhu (m) monk.
mama (per pron) my.
saavaka (m) disciple.
bhikkhunii (f) nun.
ratta~n~nu (adj) of long-standing, recognised, well-known.
yadida.m = ya ida.m: which is this, that is, in other words, so to
speak, just this.
- ya (rel pron, stem) which.
- ida.m (dem pron, n/nom/sg) this.
mahaapajaapati-gotamii (proper noun) Mahapajapati Gotami.

------------------------------------------------------------------

2. ... Mahaapa~n~naana.m yadida.m khemaa.
of the ones with great wisdom / that is / Khema
Among those with great wisdom: it is Khema.

mahaapa~n~naa (f) great wisdom.
mahant (adj) great.
pa~n~naa (f) wisdom.khemaa (proper noun) Khema.

------------------------------------------------------------------

3. ... Iddhimantiina.m yadida.m uppalava.n.naa.
of the ones possessing supernatural powers / that is / Uppalavanna
Among those possessing supernatural powers: it is Uppalavanna.

iddhimant (adj) possessing supernatural powers.
uppalava.n.naa (proper noun) Uppalavanna.

------------------------------------------------------------------

4. ... Vinayadharaana.m yadida.m pa.taacaaraa.
of the masters of Vinaya / that is / Patacara
Among the masters of Vinaya: it is Patacara.

vinayadhara (m) master of the Vinaya.
pa.taacaaraa (proper noun) Patacara.

------------------------------------------------------------------

5. ... Dhammakathikaana.m yadida.m dhammadinnaa.
of expounders of the teachings / that is / Dhammadinna
Among the expounders of the teachings: it is Dhammadinna.

dhammakathika = dhammassa kathika (m) expounder of the teachings.
- dhamma (m) teachings.
- kathika (m) expounder.dhammadinnaa (proper noun) Dhammadinna.

------------------------------------------------------------------

6. ... Jhaayiina.m yadida.m nandaa.
of the ones engaged in jhana-practice / that is / Nanda
Among those engaged in Jhana-practice: it is Nanda.

jhaayin (adj) one engaged in jhana-practice.
nandaa (proper noun) Nanda.

------------------------------------------------------------------

7. ... Aaraddhaviiriyaana.m yadida.m so.naa.
of the strenuous ones / that is / Sona
Among the strenuous ones: it is Sona.

aaraddhaviriya (adj) strenuous, energetic, resolute.
so.naa (proper noun) Sona.

------------------------------------------------------------------

8. ... Dibbacakkhukaana.m yadida.m bakulaa.
of the ones endowed with divine eyes / that is / Bakula
Among those endowed with the ability of clairvoyance: it is Bakula.

dibbacakkhuka (n) endowed with divine eyes.
bakulaa (proper noun) Bakula.

------------------------------------------------------------------

9. ... Khippaabhi~n~naana.m yadida.m bhaddaa ku.n.dalakesaa.
of the ones with quick intuition / that is / Bhadda / curly hair
Among those with quick intuition: it is curly hair Bhadda.

khippaabhi~n~naa (f) quick intuition.
bhaddaa (proper noun) Bhadda.
ku.n.dalakesa (adj) curly hair.
- ku.n.dala (n) curl.
- kesa (m) hair of the head.

------------------------------------------------------------------

10. ... Pubbenivaasa.m anussarantiina.m yadida.m bhaddaa kaapilaanii.
past lives / of the ones remembering / that is / Bhadda / Kapilani
Among those with the ability of postcognition: it is Bhadda Kapilani.

pubbenivaasa (m) past life.anussaranta (ppr of anussarati)
remembering, having memory of.
kaapilaanii (proper noun) Kapilani.

------------------------------------------------------------------

11. ... Mahaabhi~n~nappattaana.m yadida.m bhaddakaccaanaa.
of the ones who attained great knowledge / that is / Bhaddakaccana
Among those possessing great knowledge: it is Bhaddakaccana.

mahaabhi~n~nappatta (adj) one who attained great knowledge.
- abhi~n~na (adj) knowing, possessed of knowledge.
- patta (pp of paapu.naati) reached, attained.
bhaddakaccaanaa (proper noun) Bhaddakaccana.

------------------------------------------------------------------

12. ... Luukhaciivaradharaana.m yadida.m kisaagotamii.
of the ones wearing rough robes / that is / Kisagotami
Among those wearing ragged robes: it is Kisagotami.

luukhaciivaradhara (adj) one wearing a rough robe.
- luukha (adj) rough, coarse.
- ciivara (n) outer robe of a monk.
- dhara (adj) wearing.
kisaagotamii (proper noun) Kisagotami.

------------------------------------------------------------------

13. ... Saddhaadhimuttaana.m yadida.m si`ngaalakamaataati.
of the ones inclined to faith / that is / Sigalakamata
Among those inclined to faith: it is Sigalakamata."

saddhaadhimutta (adj) one inclined to faith.
- saddhaa (f) faith.
- adhimutta (pp of adhimuccati) inclined to.
si`ngaalakamaataa = sigaalakamaataa (proper name) Sigalakamata.

Vaggo pa~ncamo.
part / fifth
The Fifth Part

vagga (m) chapter, part.
pa~ncama (num ord) fifth.



Please correct me if there is any mistake.


metta,
Yong Peng.

Dear Walter and friends,

thanks for your questions and suggestions.

I appreciate your generous offer of a domain name. However, there is
no plan to have a separate domain now. Pali Scope will be an integral
part of Tipitaka Network. I have missed out the URL for the project
earlier, here it is:

http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/scope/

Thanks also for your interest of participation. I am still exploring
the various options available for the development, although it would
highly likely be MySQL with PHP, Perl or Python.

Your idea of 'multi-script' is fascinating, and is something I wanted
to add to the list too.

Those who like to register their interest in project development may
forward their names and areas of interest offlist, if they do not
wish to join this discussion. There are a couple of planning issues
to be sorted out before development commences. When that is done, I
shall contact everyone personally with further information.

In the meantime, general updates of the project would be made through
this list, and may also be available on Tipitaka Network.


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Walter Stanish wrote:

I'd love to participate in development.  What kind of programming
language / database system were you planning to use?

For web-based projects I usually use PHP/MySQL, though I can also
program in Perl and would like an excuse to learn Python.

I'd be particularly interested to have a go at implementing
a 'multiscript' view - ie: allowing a user to view the same Pali text
in a variety of Asian scripts.  Mostly this should be fairly
straightforward, though I suppose there's probably a few special code
sequences for various rare glyphs that might require some specialised
rules.

Also, I happen to have recently registered for a 'three-domain'
package on a new hosting provider, and have a spare domain
remaining.  As such I'm happy to pay for the domain name and pay
hosting costs for the project, if there is adequate interest in
proceeding.  If the group agrees on a domain name then I'm happy to
register it immediately.  paliscope.org?

Hi Keren,

Actually the main purpose of this university is to follow their one
year program (Diploma course), two year program or three year program.
You have to take a quite easy admission exam, either in a Myanmar
embassy somewhere in the world, or directly at the University in
Yangon. Students who choose this option have to stay in the housing
provided by the University. The tuition fees are actually free of charge.

However, it could be possible just to attend the classes of your
choice without really attending all the courses. It is then a matter
of discussion with the teacher. This can be an option if you intend to
spend some time in Yangon. You then of course have to arrange your own
accomodation.

Regards,

Florent

> Dear Florent and All,
>
> Maybe you would know if it is possible to come to the Buddhist
> Missionary University just for few months for studying Pali?
> I am looking for some program in the US or elswhere which offer an
> advanced Pali courses in the summer for few weeks, like the Sanskrit
> intensive courses that some US universities offer during the summer.
>
> I appreciate any information,
> Yours,
> Keren.
>

Cher John,

Thank you very much for your very useful explanations. I am still
struggling quite a bit with the use of present and past participles. I
guess I need to do a lot more exercises and translations to understand
it more thoroughly. I am probably a bit misled by French where the
agreement of tenses follows quite strict rules (although confusing
sometimes!). If as you say I have to think at them as adjectives, I
imagine there's no big difference between the present and past
participles in this case and that they can be also mixed in the same
sentence.

I suppose the following sentences are equivalent:

Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne.
Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe ti.t.thanto vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne
Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisiidante.
Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe ti.t.thanto vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisiidante.

Merci beaucoup,

Florent

> Cher Florent,
>
> I'll have a crack at answering your questions on these sentences:
>
> > I am having some problems with the following 3 sentences from exercise
> > 20 p63-64 in Buddhadatta's New Pali Course.
> >
> > 1)Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne
> > pakkhino oloketi.
> > [in] that / high / [in] tree / stood / monkey / [in] this / low / [in]
> > tree / sat / birds / looks at
> > The monkey which stood in that high tree looks at the birds which sat
> > in this low tree.
> >
> > Would olokesi not be more logical than oloketi since all the other
> > verbs are in the past? The tense agreement seems to be wrong.
>
> There is no problem with mixing past participles qualifying nouns with
> a present tense verb.  Think of the p.p. simply acting as an
> adjective.  Very literally, one could translate this as:
> "The monkey that stood in that high tree looks at the birds seated in
> this low tree."  Which makes sense to me.
> Also, bear in mind that Pali often uses the present tense in a
> historical past tense sense, so that a translator into English would
> use the past tense even though the Pali verb is in the present.  Thus,
> depending on the context around it, "looked at" may be quite
> appropriate.  Compare the beginning of a large percentage of the
> suttas in the canon which generally start off along the lines of
> "Eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa (at some place) viharati", which one would
> translate along the lines of, "At one time the Blessed One was living
> (at X)", even though the verb is literally "is living".
>
> > 2)Bahunna.m baalaana.m puttaa tassaa nadiyaa gambhiire jale patitvaa
> > mari.msu.
> > many / [of] young ones / sons / that / [of] river / deep / [in] water
> > / having fallen / died
> > The sons of the many young ones from that river, fell in deep water
> > and died.
> >
> > I do not understand here the function of "tassaa" which is either
> > Genitive or Dative singular. Would it mean something like "the sons
> > living close to that river" which explains why I wrote "from that
> > river". Or should it rather be "tassa.m" (locative singular) which
> > then could be translated by:
> > "The sons of the many young ones [is foolish ones better?] fell in
> > deep water in that river and died"
>
> I see "tassaa nadiyaa" as genitive syntactically associated with
> "gambhire jale" not with "puttaa".  Thus "in the deep water OF that
> river".
> Also, I think "foolish" might be more appropriate here than "young",
> since if they were very young they probably wouldn't have sons!  Also
> I think the sentence is implying that they are foolish because they
> allow their sons to fall in the deep water.
>
> > 3) Mama bhaataraana.m majjhimo niice pii.the nisiiditvaa aama.m
> > phala.m khaadati.
> > my / [of] brothers / medium / low / [on] chair / having sat / unripe /
> > fruit / eats
> > Having sat on a low chair , the ??? of my brothers eats an unripe
fruit.
> > Majjhimo seems to be the subject of that sentence. I looked it up in
> > different dictionnaries and they don't mention any use of majjhimo as
> > a noun. I thought it might mean something as "middle-brother".
>
> Yes, I take "majjhimo" here to mean the "middle-brother".  Remember in
> Pali that nouns and adjectives are very fluid and often when one sees
> an adjective (X, say) without an obvious corresponding noun, one would
> translate it is the X one or the X person or whatever fits the context.
>
> With metta, John
>

1.Sons of the wealthy are not always wise.
   puttaa / dhanavata.m / na bhavanti / sadaa / pa��avanto
   Dhanavata.m puttaa sadaa pa��avanto na bhavanti.

2.One who has relations does not fear enemies.
   bandhumaa / na bhaayati / ariibhi
   Bandhumaa ariibhi na bhaayati.

3.The brothers of the virtuous will bow down to the Exalted One.
   bhaataro / siilavantassa / vandissanti / bhagavanta.m
   Siilavantassa bhaataro bhagavanta.m vandissanti.

4.Your grandsons are not intelligent.
   tava / nattaaro / na bhavanti / buddhimanto
   Tava nattaaro buddhimanto na bhavanti.

5.Tomorrow the wise men will preach to the men of high caste.
   suve / pa��avanto / desessanti / kulavata.m
   Suve pa��avanto kulavata.m desessanti.

6.Today the rich will go to a mountain in the Himalayas.
   ajja / dhanavanto / gamissanti / giri.m / himavantesu
   Ajja dhanavanto Himavantesu giri.m gamissanti.

7.There are fruitful trees, lions and leopards in the garden of the
rich man.
   bhavanti / phalavanto / rukkhaa / siihaa / ca / diipayo / aaraame /
  dhanavantassa
   Phalavanto rukkhaa ca siihaa ca diipayo ca dhanavantassa aaraame
bhavanti.

8.When will the famous men come to our village?
   kadaa / aagamissanti / yasavanto / amha.m / gama.m
   Kadaa yasavanto amha.m gama.m aagamissanti.