John,

I would like to start translating the exercises in the Warder book on
another website, focusing only on the Pali to English translations and
including a grammatical analysis of each word.  However, it makes me
wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by doing this.
Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I wanted to ask you
what the deal is with the copyright, etc.

Can I assume that including such translations on my website would not
be problematic?

Thanks for your help,

Alan

Hello,
I am back home now and should be able to post the answers much more regularly.
With metta,
Florent

9.  Vaa.nijaa Buddhassa dhamma.m su.nanti.
     merchants / [of] Buddha / doctrine / listen
     The merchants listen to the doctrine of the Buddha.

10. Coraa mayuure corenti.
     thieves / peacocks / steal
     The thieves steal the peacocks.

11. Aha.m Buddha.m puujemi.
     I / Buddha / respect
     I respect the Buddha.

12. Tva.m diipa.m jaalehi.
     you / lamp / kindle
     You kindle the lamp.

13. Daaso go.na.m pii.leti.
     slave / ox / teases
     The slave teases the ox.

14. Tumhe magge kassaka.m oloketha.
     you / [on] path / farmer / look at
     You look at the farmer on the path.

15. Maya.m dhamm.m jaanaama.
     we / doctrine / know
     We know the doctrine.






___________________________________________________________________________
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Dear Nina and friends,

thanks for all your previous replies and corrections. I shall reply
to them soon. Once again, please help with the difficult parts of the
passage.

A`nguttara Nikaya: Ekaka Nipaata
Accharaasa`nghaata Vagga

1. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m. Ta~nca kho aagantukehi
upakkilesehi upakkili.t.tha.m. Ta.m assutavaa puthujjano
yathaabhuuta.m nappajaanaati. Tasmaa'assutavato puthujjanassa
cittabhaavanaa natthii'ti vadaamii"ti. Pa.thama.m.

2. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m. Ta~nca kho aagantukehi
upakkilesehi vippamutta.m. Ta.m sutavaa ariyasaavako yathaabhuuta.m
pajaanaati. Tasmaa'sutavato ariyasavaakassa cittabhaavanaa atthii'ti
vadaamii"ti. Dutiya.m.

3. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
aasevati; aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati
satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
bhu~njati'. Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti! Tatiya.m.

4. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
bhaaveti; aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati
satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
bhu~njati'. Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti! Catuttha.m.

5. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
manasi karoti; aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano
viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
bhu~njati'. Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti! Pa~ncama.m.

6. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa akusalaa akusalabhaagiyaa
akusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa. Mano tesa.m dhammaana.m
pa.thama.m uppajjati, anvadeva akusalaa dhammaa"ti. Cha.t.tha.m.

7. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa kusalaa kusalabhaagiyaa
kusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa. Mano tesa.m dhammaana.m
pa.thama.m uppajjati, anvadeva kusalaa dhammaa"ti. Sattama.m.

8. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, pamaado. Pamattassa,
bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa ca
kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. A.t.thama.m.

9. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, appamaado. Appamattassa,
bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa ca
akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Navama.m.

10. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, kosajja.m. Kusiitassa,
bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa ca
kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Dasama.m.

Accharaasa`nghaatavaggo cha.t.tho.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Accharaasa`nghaata Vagga
short duration / chapter
The Chapter on Quick Thoughts

1. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m.
resplendent-this / monks / mind
"The mind, monks, it is luminous.

pabhassaramida.m = pabhassara.m ida.m.
- pabhassara (adj) shining, very bright, resplendent.
- ida.m (dem pron, n/nom) this.
bhikkhu (m) monk.
citta (n) mind, heart.

Ta~nca kho aagantukehi upakkilesehi upakkili.t.tha.m.
it-and / indeed / by coming / by defilements / stained
And by intruding defilements, it is indeed defiled.

ta~nca = ta.m ca.
- ta.m (n) it.
- ca (ind, conj) and.
aagantuka (adj) coming, arriving.
upakkilesa (m) impurity, defilement
upakkili.t.tha (adj) soiled, impure, stained.

Ta.m assutavaa puthujjano yathaabhuuta.m nappajaanaati.
it / unlearned / ordinary person / as one has been brought and
placed / does not know clearly
Due to his background, the unlearned ordinary person does not know it
clearly.

assutavant (adj) unlearned.
puthujjana = puthu jana (m) an ordinary, average person.
- puthu (adj) individual.
- jana (m) person, man.
yathaabhuuta.m = yathaa aabhata (adv) as one has been brought and
placed.
- yathaa (adv) as, according to.
- aabhata (pp of aabharati) brought (there or here), carried,
conveyed, taken.
nappajaanaati = na pajaanaati.
- na (ind neg) not.
- pajaanaati (v) knows clearly.

Tasmaa'assutavato puthujjanassa cittabhaavanaa natthii'ti vadaamii"ti.
from it / for unlearned / for ordinary person / cultivation of mind /
there is not / say
I say, 'Because of this, there is no cultivation of the mind for the
unlearned ordinary person.' "

tasmaa (rel pron, n/abl) from it.
cittabhaavanaa = cittassa bhaavanaa (f) cultivation of the mind.
- bhaavanaa (f) development, cultivation.
natthi = na atthi (v) there is not.
- atthi (v) verb to be.
vadati (v) says, speaks.

Pa.thama.m.
first
(This is) the first.

pa.thama (num adj) first.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

2. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m.
resplendent-this / monks / mind
"The mind, monks, it is luminous.

Ta~nca kho aagantukehi upakkilesehi vippamutta.m.
it-and / indeed / from coming / from defilements / stained
And from intruding defilements, it is indeed released."

vippamutta (adj) released, set free, saved.

Ta.m sutavaa ariyasaavako yathaabhuuta.m pajaanaati.
it / learned / noble disciple / as one has been brought and placed /
knows clearly
Due to his background, the learned noble disciple knows it clearly.

ariyasaavaka = ariya saavaka (m) noble disciple.
- ariya (adj) noble.
- saavaka (m) disciple.

Tasmaa'sutavato ariyasavaakassa cittabhaavanaa atthii'ti vadaamii"ti.
from it / for learned / for noble disciple / cultivation of mind /
there is / say
I say, 'Because of this, there is the cultivation of the mind for the
learned noble disciple.' "

Dutiya.m.
second
(This is) the second.

dutiya (num adj) second.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

3. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
aasevati;
for short duration of time-even-just / if / monks / monk / heart of
loving kindness / practises
"Monks, if for even just a brief moment, a monk practises loving
kindness,

accharaasa`nghaatamattampi = accharaasa`nghaata.m matta.m pi.
- accharaasa`nghaata = accharaasa`nghaata (m) snapping of fingers,
short duration of time, a moment.
- matta (adv) even at, as soon as, because of.
- pi (enc, ind) and, even, and then, just so.
ce (enc, ind) if.
mettaacitta.m = metta.m eva'citta.m (n) heart of loving kindness.
mettaa (f) loving kindness.
aasevati (v) practises, pursues, indulges, enjoys.

aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave -
this / to be said / monks
this is to be said, monks:

aya.m (dem pron, m/nom) this.vuccati (passive of vatti) to be spoken,
said, called.

'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro,
amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'.
monk / not free of Jhana / lives / complying with teaching of one's
teacher / ??? / not in vain / food from the people / eats
'The monk lives with Jhana, in accordance with the teachings, ... .
(He) eats worthy food from the people.'

arittajjhaano = aritta jhaana (adj) not free of Jhana.
- aritta =na ritta.
- ritta (pp of ri~ncati) devoid, empty, free, rid of.viharati (v)
lives.
satthusaasanakaro = satthussa saasanakaro (adj.) complying with
teaching of one's teacher.
- satthu (m) teacher.
- saasanakara (adj) complying with one's order or
teaching.ovaadapatikara = ovaadapatikara ???
- ovaada (m) advice, instruction, admonition, exhortation.
amogha = na mogha (adj) not in vain, not futile.
- mogha (adj) empty, vain, useless, stupid, foolish.ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
= ra.t.thassa pi.n.da (m) food from the people.
- ra.t.tha (n) country.
- pi.n.da (m) alms given as food.
bhu~njati (v) eats, partakes.

Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!
what / but / saying / who / to it / devote themselves to
But, what is to be said (about those) who devotes themselves to it?"

ko (interr pron, m/nom) who, what.
pana (ind) but, however, further.
vaada (m) saying, theory.
ye (rel pron, m/nom) who, which.
na.m (rel pron, n/acc) to it.
bahuliikaroti (v) takes up seriously, practises, devotes oneself to.

Tatiya.m.
third
(This is) the third.

tatiya (num adj) third.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

4. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
bhaaveti;
for short duration of time-even-just / if / monks / monk / heart of
loving kindness / cultivates
"Monks, if for even just a brief moment, a monk cultivates loving
kindness,

bhaaveti (v) cultivates, develops.

aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave -
this / to be said / monks
this is to be said, monks:

'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro,
amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'.
monk / not free of Jhana / lives / complying with teaching of one's
teacher / ??? / not in vain / food from the people / eats
'The monk lives with Jhana, in accordance with the teachings, ... .
(He) eats worthy food from the people.'

Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!
what / but / saying / who / to it / devote themselves to
But, what is to be said (about those) who devotes themselves to it?"

Catuttha.m.
fourth
(This is) the fourth.

catuttha (num adj) fourth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

5. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
manasi karoti;
for short duration of time-even-just / if / monks / monk / heart of
loving kindness / in mind / bears
"Monks, if for even just a brief moment, a monk bears in mind loving
kindness,

manasi (loc of manas, n) in mind.
karoti (v) verb to do.

aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave -
this / to be said / monks
this is to be said, monks:

'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro,
amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'.
monk / not free of Jhana / lives / complying with teaching of one's
teacher / ??? / not in vain / food from the people / eats
'The monk lives with Jhana, in accordance with the teachings, ... .
(He) eats worthy food from the people.'

Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!
what / but / saying / who / to it / devote themselves to
But, what is to be said (about those) who devotes themselves to it?"

Pa~ncama.m.
fifth
(This is) the fifth.

pa~ncama (num adj) fifth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

6. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa akusalaa akusalabhaagiyaa
akusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa.
which / any / monks / phenomena / not good / not conducive to good /
not leading to good / all / these / precede in mind
"Monks, (are there) any things, which (are) not good, not conducive
to good, not leading to good, that all precede in the mind?

keci (indefinite pron) any.
dhamma (n) thing, phenomenon.
akusalaa = na kusala.
- kusala (adj) good, right, moral, meritorious.
akusalabhaagiyaa = na kusala bhaagiya.
- bhaagiya (adj) connected with, conducive to, procuring.
akusalapakkhikaa = na kusala pakkhika.
- pakkhika (adj) contributing to, leading to, associated with, siding
with.
sabba (adj) all.
te (rel pron) these.
manopubba`ngama = manasi pubba.m gama.
- pubba.m gama (adj) going before, preceding.

Mano tesa.m dhammaana.m pa.thama.m uppajjati, anvadeva akusalaa
dhammaa"ti.
in mind / to these / to phenomena / first / arises / later / not
good / phenomena

uppajjati (v) is born, arises.
anvadeva (adv) behind, after, later.

Cha.t.tha.m.
sixth
(This is) the sixth.

cha.t.tha (num adj) sixth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

7. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa kusalaa kusalabhaagiyaa
kusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa.
which / any / monks / phenomena / good / conducive to good / leading
to good / all / these / precede in mind
"Monks, (are there) any things, which (are) good, conducive to good,
leading to good, that all precede in the mind?

Mano tesa.m dhammaana.m pa.thama.m uppajjati, anvadeva kusalaa
dhammaa"ti.
in mind / to these / to phenomena / first / arises / later / good /
phenomena

Sattama.m.
seventh
(This is) the seventh.

sattama (num adj) seventh.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

8. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, pamaado.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / not good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / negligence
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen unwholesome thoughts arise, or arisen wholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: negligence.

naaha.m = na aha.m.
- aha.m (pron, nom/sg) I.
a~n~na (pron) another.
ekadhamma.m = eka.m dhamma.m (n) one phenomenon.
- eka (num adj) one.
pi (ind, emph) even, just so.
samanupassati (v) perceives.
yena (rel pron, ins) by which.
anuppanna = na uppanna (adj) not born.
- uppanna (pp of uppajjati) born.
vaa (ind conj) or.
parihaayati (v) decays, dwindles.
yathayida.m = yathaa ida.m (adv) as just this.
pamaada (m) carelessness, negligence, indolence, remissness.

Pamattassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to negligent / monks / non-arisen / as well as / not good /
phenomena / arise / arisen / and / good / phenomena / subside
To the negligent (person), monks, non-arisen unwholesome thoughts
arise as well as arisen wholesome thoughts subside."

pamatta (pp. of pamajjati) slothful, indolent, indifferent, careless,
negligent.ceva = ca eva (ind) as well as.
- eva (ind) just, quite, even, only.

A.t.thama.m.
eighth
(This is) the eighth.

sattama (num adj) eighth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

9. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, appamaado.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / not good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / diligence
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen wholesome thoughts arise, or arisen unwholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: diligence.

appamaada (m) thoughtfulness, carefulness, conscientiousness,
watchfulness, vigilance, earnestness, zeal, diligence.

Appamattassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to diligent / monks / non-arisen / as well as / good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / not good / phenomena / subside
To the diligent (person), monks, non-arisen wholesome thoughts arise
as well as arisen unwholesome thoughts subside."

appamatta (adj) diligent, careful, heedful, vigilant, alert, zealous.

Navama.m.
ninth
(This is) the ninth.

navama (num adj) ninth.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

10. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, kosajja.m.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / not good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / laziness
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen unwholesome thoughts arise, or arisen wholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: laziness.

kosajja (n) idleness, sloth, indolence.

Kusiitassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to lazy / monks / non-arisen / as well as / not good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / good / phenomena / subside
To the lazy (person), monks, non-arisen unwholesome thoughts arise as
well as arisen wholesome thoughts subside."

kusiita (adj) indolent, inert, inactive.

Dasama.m.
tenth
(This is) the tenth.

dasama (num adj) tenth.

Accharaasa`nghaatavaggo cha.t.tho.
short duration-chapter / sixth
The Chapter on Quick Thoughts, the Sixth.



Please correct me if there is any mistake.


metta,
Yong Peng.

Hi Yifer,
op 31-07-2005 14:46 schreef yifertw op yifertw@...:
> The first verse of SN 1.3.1 is:
> Naaphusanta.m phusati ca, phusanta~nca tato phuse;
> tasmaa phusanta.m phusati, appadu.t.thapadosinan.
> Ven. Bodhi's translation is:
> [It does not touch one who does not touch,
> But then will touch the one who touches.
> Therefore it touches the one who touches,
> The one who wrongs an innocent man.]

> My questions are:
> 1. There are two "it" in this verse, what does it stand for?
> Does it stand for "kamma" or these to sentence just to
> convince readers not to act that way?
> 2. There are 6 "touch" in this verse, what does it stand for
> respectively?
-----
PTS footnote: two meanings of touch, an active one (performing kamma) and a
passive one: receiving the result of kamma, thus, vipaaka.
1: vipaaka will not come to (touch) the person who 2.does not commit kamma.
(touch, makes feel, commit kamma)
3. But then will touch (vipaaka will touch), 4 the one who touches (who
commits kamma)
5 Therefore it touches the one (vipaaka touches), 6 who touches (who commits
kamma).
First part of your Q. may also be solved now.
Nina.

---
Dear John,

I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of Bodhinyana
Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made already a detailed
translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with many footnotes, etc,
which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS website. PTS was not
interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as it is a translation.
Mettaya,
             Bhikkhu Nyanatusita

In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "alanmcclure3" <alanmcclure3@y...> wrote:
> John,
>
> I would like to start translating the exercises in the Warder book on
> another website, focusing only on the Pali to English translations and
> including a grammatical analysis of each word.  However, it makes me
> wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by doing this.
> Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I wanted to ask you
> what the deal is with the copyright, etc.
>
> Can I assume that including such translations on my website would not
> be problematic?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Alan

Dear Dmytro,

Thank you very much for your message. I am happy that there is so much
interest in my suggestion regarding improving the Vimuttimagga.
Most of the articles on the Vimuttimagga that you list I have been
aware of and/or read.
You can definitely help with the Pali reconstruction and giving other
advice This might be better after Chinese scholars have gone through
it first.
Regarding making a completely new translation: Who would be willing
and capable to undertake such a task in accordance with the great
standards Dr Skilling puts forth? Dr Skilling does not have the time
himself...
Maybe it is better to update and improve the existing translation for
the time being. I already found one capable Chinese scholar who is
keen to help. If we can get several scholars, you included, to work on
it we might come to something which is maybe not perfect, but still
much better than what we have now. Some could focus on specific parts,
for example comparing the English with the Tibetan translation, etc.
I shall contact Toshiichi Endo too and ask him what he thinks about
this project.
I will be back with more on this later.
Mettaya,
            Bh. Nyanatusita




In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko (äÍÉÔÒÏ ïÌÅËÓ¦ÊÏ×ÉÞ
¶×ÁÈÎÅÎËÏ)" <nibbanka@b...> wrote:
> Bhante Nyanatusita,
>
> Yes, I am interested to help in making a better translation of
Vimuttimagga.
>
> Although I don't know Chinese, I have worked with Chinese text,
> consistently replacing Chinese terms with Pali equivalents, and
> compiling a Chinese-pali glossary.
>
> I have also done similar work with Tibetan translation of
> Samskrta-asamskrta-Vini"scaya by Da"sabala"sriimitra, which contains
> chapters 10,11,12 of Vimuttimagga. (See the relevant article by Peter
> Skilling in Buddhist Studies Review, Vol. 4, No.1, 1987).
>
> I can share the results of my work.
>
> Several scholars have suggested improvements in the translation of
> Vimuttimagga in following works:
>
> Vimuktimarga dhutanuga-nirdesa edited in Tibetan and translated into
> English by P.V.Bapat, Delhi University Buddhist Studies 1, 1964
>
> P.V.Bapat, Vimuttimagga and Visuddhimagga, a comparative study.
Poona 1937
>
> Vimuttimagga, edited by Galkatiyagama Siri Ratnajoti and Karalliyadde
> Siri Ratnapala. Colombo 1963. Reviewed by Purusottama Visvanath
Bapat in
> Journal of the Vidyalankara University of Ceylon 1, 1972, 172-190
>
> Toshiichi Endo, "The Asgiriya manuscript of the Pali Vimuttimagga" an
> inquiry into its authenticity", Kalyani. Journal of Humanities and
> Social Sciences of the University of Kelaniya 1, 1983, 100-108
>
> Peter Skilling, "Vimuttimagga and Abhayagiri: the form-aggregate
> according to the Samskrtasmkrtaviniscaya", JPTS 20, 1994, 171-210
>
> Also see full bibliography at
> http://faculty.washington.edu/kpotter/ckeyt/txt.html , number 123
>
> Peter Skilling wrote to me that the comparison of the Tibetan texts
> (only parts available) and the Chinese show that the English
translation
> is often inaccurate, and that the Pali terms inserted in parentheses
are
> not always correct. He thinks that "the only solution is a new English
> translation from the Chinese by someone who is steeped in Sanskrit and
> Pali, and also knows Tibetan to compare the excellent Tibetan excerpts.
> To render terms correctly one needs a profound knowledge of Abhidharma,
> including Sarvastivadin, and research tools such as the trilingual
(Skt,
> Tibetan, Ch) glossaries of Abhidharmakosa and Yogacarabhumi, etc.,
> produced in Japan in recent  years, plus a deep knowledge of the Pali
> Abhidhamma tradition, more or less from reading through the whole.
> For example, where the English translation has the unattested
> khanda-, ayatana-, dhatu-upaya, the Tibetan has mkhas pa = kaushalya.
> Lexicons based on the comparison of translations with Sanskrit texts
> show that while the Chinese character in question often translates
> upaya, it is also attested for kushala, kaushalya, Pali kosalla."
>
> As for me, I hope to see the new translation with more comrehensive
> reconstruction of Pali texts and passages. Some of the key Pali terms
> like 'nimitta' are habitually wrongly translated in English. However
> with Pali terms available the reader has a chance to reconstruct the
> meaning.
>
> In Sri Lanka you can contact Toshiichi Endo from Postgraduate Institute
> of Pali and Buddhist Studies, University of Kelaniya, who has studied
> Vimuttimagga and related works.
>
> Metta, Dmytro
>
> http://dhamma.ru/sadhu/

Hi Nina,

These are grammatically and semantically difficult verses. If I manage to
find a solution to the problem they constitute, I shall write you right
away.

Ole holten pind

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Nina van
Gorkom
Sendt: 1. august 2005 19:56
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [Pali] Stanz of SN 1.3.1

Hi Yifer,
op 31-07-2005 14:46 schreef yifertw op yifertw@...:
> The first verse of SN 1.3.1 is:
> Naaphusanta.m phusati ca, phusanta~nca tato phuse;
> tasmaa phusanta.m phusati, appadu.t.thapadosinan.
> Ven. Bodhi's translation is:
> [It does not touch one who does not touch,
> But then will touch the one who touches.
> Therefore it touches the one who touches,
> The one who wrongs an innocent man.]

> My questions are:
> 1. There are two "it" in this verse, what does it stand for?
> Does it stand for "kamma" or these to sentence just to
> convince readers not to act that way?
> 2. There are 6 "touch" in this verse, what does it stand for
> respectively?
-----
PTS footnote: two meanings of touch, an active one (performing kamma) and a
passive one: receiving the result of kamma, thus, vipaaka.
1: vipaaka will not come to (touch) the person who 2.does not commit kamma.
(touch, makes feel, commit kamma)
3. But then will touch (vipaaka will touch), 4 the one who touches (who
commits kamma)
5 Therefore it touches the one (vipaaka touches), 6 who touches (who commits
kamma).
First part of your Q. may also be solved now.
Nina.



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Dear Nina and friends,

here is the first part of the Viiriyaarambhaadi Vagga.

A`nguttara Nikaya: Ekaka Nipaata
Viiriyaarambhaadi Vagga

1. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, viiriyaarambho.
Aaraddhaviiriyassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa
uppajjanti uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Pa.thama.m.

2. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, mahicchataa.
Mahicchassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Dutiya.m.

3. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, appicchataa.
Appicchassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Tatiya.m.

4. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, asantu.t.thitaa.
Asantu.t.thassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa
uppajjanti uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Catuttha.m.

5. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, santu.t.thitaa.
Santu.t.thassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti. Pa~ncama.m.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Viiriyaarambhaadi Vagga
application of exertion-starting / chapter
The Chapter on Making Conscientious Effort

viiriyaarambhaadi = viiriyaarambha aadi.
- aadi (adv) starting, beginning.

1. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, viiriyaarambho.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / not good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / application of exertion
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen wholesome thoughts arise, or arisen unwholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: conscientious effort.

naaha.m = na aha.m.
- aha.m (pron, nom/sg) I.bhikkhu (m) monk.
a~n~na (pron) another.
ekadhamma.m = eka.m dhamma.m (n) one phenomenon.
- eka (num adj) one.
- dhamma (n) thing, phenomenon.
pi (ind, emph) even, just so.
samanupassati (v) perceives.
yena (rel pron, ins) by which.
anuppanna = na uppanna (adj) not born.
- uppanna (pp of uppajjati) born.
vaa (ind conj) or.
kusala (adj) good, right, moral, meritorious.
uppajjati (v) is born, arises.
akusalaa = na kusala.
parihaayati (v) decays, dwindles.
yathayida.m = yathaa ida.m (adv) as just this.
viiriyaarambha = viiriya eva'arambha (m) application of exertion,
will, energy, resolution.
- viiriya = viriya (n) vigour, energy, effort, exertion.
- arambha (m) attempt.

Aaraddhaviiriyassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa
uppajjanti uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to resolute / monks / non-arisen / as well as / good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / not good / phenomena / subside
To the endeavoring (person), monks, non-arisen wholesome thoughts
arise as well as arisen unwholesome thoughts subside."

aaraddhaviiriya = aaraddha viiriya (adj.) strenuous, energetic,
resolute.
- aaraddha (pp of aarabhati/aarabbhati) begun, started, bent on,
undertaking, holding on to, resolved, firm.
ceva = ca eva (ind) as well as.
- ca (ind, conj) and.
- eva (ind) just, quite, even, only.

Pa.thama.m.
first
(This is) the first.

pa.thama (num adj) first.

----------------------------------------------------------------

2. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, mahicchataa.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / not good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / great wishing
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen unwholesome thoughts arise, or arisen wholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: endless desires.

mahicchataa = mahi icchataa (f) arrogance, ostentatiousness.
- mahi [a form of mahant used in compounds].
- icchataa (f) wishfulness, wishing.

Mahicchassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to greedy / monks / non-arisen / as well as / not good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / good / phenomena / subside
To the desirous (person), monks, non-arisen unwholesome thoughts
arise as well as arisen wholesome thoughts subside."

mahiccha = mahi iccha (adj) full of desire, lustful, greedy.
- iccha (adj) wishing, longing, having desires.

Dutiya.m.
second
(This is) the second.

dutiya (num adj) second.

----------------------------------------------------------------

3. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, appicchataa.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / not good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / contentment
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen wholesome thoughts arise, or arisen unwholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: contentment.

appicchataa (f) contentment, being satisfied with little,
unostentatiousness.

Appicchassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to contented / monks / non-arisen / as well as / good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / not good / phenomena / subside
To the contented (person), monks, non-arisen wholesome thoughts arise
as well as arisen unwholesome thoughts subside."

appiccha (adj) desiring little or nothing, easily satisfied,
unassuming, contented, unpretentious.

Tatiya.m.
third
(This is) the third.

tatiya (num adj) third.

----------------------------------------------------------------

4. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa akusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa kusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, asantu.t.thitaa.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / not good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / dissatisfaction
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen unwholesome thoughts arise, or arisen wholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: dissatisfaction.

asantu.t.thitaa (f) dissatisfaction, discontentment.

Asantu.t.thassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva akusalaa dhammaa
uppajjanti uppannaa ca kusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to unsatisfied / monks / non-arisen / as well as / not good /
phenomena / arise / arisen / and / good / phenomena / subside
To the unsatisfied (person), monks, non-arisen unwholesome thoughts
arise as well as arisen wholesome thoughts subside."

asantu.t.tha (pp of asantussati) not contented with, greedy,
insatiate, unhappy.

Catuttha.m.
fourth
(This is) the fourth.

catuttha (num adj) fourth.

----------------------------------------------------------------

5. "Naaha.m, bhikkhave, a~n~na.m ekadhammampi samanupassaami yena
anuppannaa vaa kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti uppannaa vaa akusalaa
dhammaa parihaayanti yathayida.m, bhikkhave, santu.t.thitaa.
not-I / monks / another / one phenomenon-even / perceive / by which /
non-arisen or / good / phenomena / arise / arisen or / not good /
phenomena / subside / as just this / monks / satisfaction
"Monks, I cannot identify even one other phenomenon by which non-
arisen wholesome thoughts arise, or arisen unwholesome thoughts
subside as just this, monks: satisfaction.

santu.t.thitaa (f) state of contentment.

Santu.t.thassa, bhikkhave, anuppannaa ceva kusalaa dhammaa uppajjanti
uppannaa ca akusalaa dhammaa parihaayantii"ti.
to happy / monks / non-arisen / as well as / good / phenomena /
arise / arisen / and / not good / phenomena / subside
To the happy (person), monks, non-arisen wholesome thoughts arise as
well as arisen unwholesome thoughts subside."

santu.t.tha (pp of santussati) pleased, happy.

Pa~ncama.m.
fifth
(This is) the fifth.

pa~ncama (num adj) fifth.



Please correct me if there is any mistake.


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- nyanatusita <nyanatusita@...> skrev:

> Dear John,
>
> I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of
> Bodhinyana
> Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made
> already a detailed
> translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with
> many footnotes, etc,
> which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS
> website. PTS was not
> interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
> I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as
> it is a translation.

The translator has author's right to the translation,
if he is still alive or has been dead for (in several
countries) less than 70 years, but I suppose you have
got his agreement. As far as the Pali texts are
citations from the Tipitaka (and I think Warder cites
mostly from the Diighanikaaya), the authors have most
probably been dead for more than 70 years; the only
problem might be if Warder has written some of the
simpler sentences himself, but then it is debatable if
these are original enough to be regarded as a proper
work.

Gunnar


gunnargallmo@...

Dear Nina,
   Thanks!
   It is very clear and helpful from your explanation.

  Best regards,
     Yifer

Hi,

I've noticed that there are quite a few differences among the
different English translations available of the Suttas. The
translations are quite varied aren't they? I read Thai a bit, and I've
noticed quite a few differences between the Thai and English
translations as well.

What are your experiences?

Thanks,
June

Dear Yong Peng,
A few suggestions
op 01-08-2005 17:46 schreef Ong Yong Peng op yongpeng.ong@...:
>
> A`nguttara Nikaya: Ekaka Nipaata
> Accharaasa`nghaata Vagga

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Accharaasa`nghaata Vagga
> short duration / chapter
  The Chapter on Quick Thoughts
------
N: I personally prefer the litteral: For the Duration of a Fingersnap.
More powerful, expressive: even if one develops mettaa just for the duration
of a fingersnap.
-------
> 1. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m.
> resplendent-this / monks / mind
  "The mind, monks, it is luminous.
-----
N: This mind, monks, is luminous.
ida.m belongs to citta.m
-------

> Ta.m assutavaa puthujjano yathaabhuuta.m nappajaanaati.
Due to his background, the unlearned ordinary person does not know it
> clearly.
------
N: instead of:  Due to his background, : This, the uneducated ordinary
person does not know it
as it truly is.
> assutavant (adj) unlearned.
> puthujjana = puthu jana (m) an ordinary, average person.

  yathaabhuuta.m = yathaa aabhata (adv) as one has been brought and
> placed.
> - yathaa (adv) as, according to.
## - aabhata (pp of aabharati) brought (there or here), carried,
> conveyed, taken.

N: yathaa+bhuuta: bhuuta: nature, what is, truth.
yathaa+bhuuta.m: according to the truth, as it really is.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2. "Pabhassaramida.m, bhikkhave, citta.m.
> resplendent-this / monks / mind
  "The mind, monks, it is luminous.
--------
N:This mind...
-------
  "Monks, if for even just a brief moment, a monk practises loving
> kindness,
-------
N: just for the duration of a fingersnap...
-------

>
> aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave -
> this / to be said / monks
> this is to be said, monks:
-------
N: The word bhikkhu of the next sentence belongs here at the end:
  aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave , bhikkhu.
Such an one one is to be called a bhikkhu.
Meaning: he is a true bhikkhu, a true recluse.
--------
Text:  arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro,
> amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'.
-----
N: not futile (aritta) is his jhaana. He complies with the Master's
teaching, he takes advice and he is worthy to eat the country's almsfood.
------
Y.P.:> - saasanakara (adj) complying with one's order or
> teaching.ovaadapatikara = ovaadapatikara ???
--------
N:pa.tikara: compensation. Ovaada pa.tikara: giving advice. PED.

  ----------
> Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!

> But, what is to be said (about those) who devotes themselves to it?"
--------
N:What then should I say of those who devote themselves completely to that
subject?
(vaado: I say)
--------

> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 4. "Accharaasa`nghaatamattampi ce, bhikkhave, bhikkhu mettaacitta.m
> bhaaveti;
  aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave, bhikkhu

> this is to be said, monks:
--------
N: Place again bhikkhu of the next sentence here: he is to be called, monks,
a bhikkhu.
-------
> arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro,
> amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'.
  -----
N: as previous.

> Pa~ncama.m.

>*************************
Nina.

Hi Ole,
Thanks. Please do so,
Nina
op 01-08-2005 22:10 schreef Ole Holten Pind op oleholtenpind@...:
>
> These are grammatically and semantically difficult verses. If I manage to
> find a solution to the problem they constitute, I shall write you right
> away.
>

Hi June,
I find the Mahamakut Thai transl often better than the English ones, closer
to the Pali. I also enjoy the Co.
PTS has many footnotes with Pali. And Ven. Bodhi's transl is very good, but
he has not translated all.
It is useful to compare several translations.
But also original manuscripts differ. If possible one should compare several
manuscripts of one text. This is difficult fo me. I am impressed by Jim who
does this.
Nina.
op 02-08-2005 04:09 schreef junet9876 op junet9876@...:

> I've noticed that there are quite a few differences among the
> different English translations available of the Suttas. The
> translations are quite varied aren't they? I read Thai a bit, and I've
> noticed quite a few differences between the Thai and English
> translations as well.
>
> What are your experiences?

Bhante Nyanatusita,

> You can definitely help with the Pali reconstruction and giving other
> advice This might be better after Chinese scholars have gone through
> it first.

Translating from Chinese without Pali reconstruction is pretty much
guesswork. That's why Venerables Soma Thera, Kheminda Thera and N.R.M.
Ehara reconstructed the key Pali terms, and their English translation is
often based not on Chinese text, but on Pali parallels. Yet they had to
constantly keep in mind the Pali correspondences they discovered, and
sometimes they evidently forgot them.

Nowadays the electronic texts provide the possibility of consistent
replacement of terms with their Pali correspondences throughout the
text. Such processed text is ready for high quality translation.

So the partially reconstructed texts may be of use to scholars:

Chinese text with key Pali terms:
http://dhamma.ru/in/jieto.zip

Pali-Chinese glossary:
http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/dictionaries/Pali_Chinese.zip

Tibetan Samskrta-asamskrta-Vini"scaya with Pali terms (full text):
http://dhamma.ru/in/asamskrta.zip

Selected chapters with extensive citations from Vimuttimagga:
http://dhamma.ru/in/samskrta.zip

Tibetan-Pali glossary:
http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/dictionaries/Tibetan_Pali.zip

> Maybe it is better to update and improve the existing translation for
> the time being.

I envision it as an ongoing project. The intermediate results can be
published in paper or electronic form, and gradually brought to further
perfection. We can establish a kind of collaborative webspace.

Mettaya,
           Dmytro

The "it" refers to paapam "evil action" of the next verse.
Phusati occurs in a similar context with paapam as subject at It IV 10 verse
four: tam eva paapa.m phusse/ati.

Best,
Ole Pind

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Nina van
Gorkom
Sendt: 1. august 2005 19:56
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [Pali] Stanz of SN 1.3.1

Hi Yifer,
op 31-07-2005 14:46 schreef yifertw op yifertw@...:
> The first verse of SN 1.3.1 is:
> Naaphusanta.m phusati ca, phusanta~nca tato phuse;
> tasmaa phusanta.m phusati, appadu.t.thapadosinan.
> Ven. Bodhi's translation is:
> [It does not touch one who does not touch,
> But then will touch the one who touches.
> Therefore it touches the one who touches,
> The one who wrongs an innocent man.]

> My questions are:
> 1. There are two "it" in this verse, what does it stand for?
> Does it stand for "kamma" or these to sentence just to
> convince readers not to act that way?
> 2. There are 6 "touch" in this verse, what does it stand for
> respectively?
-----
PTS footnote: two meanings of touch, an active one (performing kamma) and a
passive one: receiving the result of kamma, thus, vipaaka.
1: vipaaka will not come to (touch) the person who 2.does not commit kamma.
(touch, makes feel, commit kamma)
3. But then will touch (vipaaka will touch), 4 the one who touches (who
commits kamma)
5 Therefore it touches the one (vipaaka touches), 6 who touches (who commits
kamma).
First part of your Q. may also be solved now.
Nina.



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Dear Nina van Gorkom
Here are our trying of analysing the verse.

The first verse of SN 1.3.1 is:
> Naaphusanta.m phusati ca, phusanta~nca tato phuse;
> tasmaa phusanta.m phusati, appadu.t.thapadosinan.
> Ven. Bodhi's translation is:
> [It does not touch one who does not touch,
It (the object) does not touch (give effect/wavering)
one who does not touch (who takes object as it is
without craving/clinging)
> But then will touch the one who touches.
But then will touch (gives effect/wavering) the one
who touches (who is not taking an object as it is,
takes with craving/clinging)
> Therefore it touches the one who touches,
Therefore it (the object) touches (gives rise to
wavering/suffering in) the one who touches (who does
take an object with craving/clinging)
> The one who wrongs an innocent man.
The one (an object) wrongs (ruins) an innocent man
(unprotected from desires man).

Could this be possible meaning of this text? We tried
to analyse it according to the position of Phassa -
cakkhupasadassa phasso, etc., (as in the link of Law
of Dependent Originations) contact based on the
eye-basement, and accordingly eye-object will take
place of "It". And so on, for all objects.
In the last sentence, "the one" might be the object
again, not a person, for it says that it
wrongs/harms/ruins/distructs "an innocent man", in
here We used unprotected man + from desires, for only
a man who is not guarding his sense-faculties will
fail to protect oneself from desires/defilements to
arrise.

The questions you raised will remain partly not
answered, but what we think, is : "it"s stand for
something that causes an action of touching. Therefore
we assume it to be an object of contemplation. "The
one" in the last sentence is assumed as in explanation
above.
If We are wrong, waiting for corrections.





Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Dear Yong Peng,
op 01-08-2005 17:46 schreef Ong Yong Peng op yongpeng.ong@...:
> Accharaasa`nghaata Vagga
> short duration / chapter
> The Chapter on Quick Thoughts

> 6. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa akusalaa akusalabhaagiyaa
> akusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa.
> which / any / monks / phenomena / not good / not conducive to good /
> not leading to good / all / these / precede in mind
> "Monks, (are there) any things, which (are) not good, not conducive
> to good, not leading to good, that all precede in the mind?
--------
N: Whatsoever akusala dhammas that have part in evil, are on the side of
evil, all these have the mind as the forerunner.
------
Y.P. keci (indefinite pron) any.
------
N: ye keci: whichever.
--------
>
> Mano tesa.m dhammaana.m pa.thama.m uppajjati, anvadeva akusalaa
> dhammaa"ti.
> in mind / to these / to phenomena / first / arises / later / not
> good / phenomena
--------
N: The mind is the forerunner of them, and the akusala dhammas follow after.
------------

> 7. "Ye keci, bhikkhave, dhammaa kusalaa kusalabhaagiyaa
> kusalapakkhikaa, sabbe te manopubba`ngamaa.
>
> "Monks, (are there) any things, which (are) good, conducive to good,
> leading to good, that all precede in the mind?
-------
N: Whatsoever kusala dhammas...etc.
>
> Sattama.m.
> seventh
> (This is) the seventh.
>
> sattama (num adj) seventh.
>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
Nina.

Has anyone had the experience of looking into the Abhidhamma texts?
I've read the Abhidhammasangaha by Bhikkhu Bodhi, but I'm not sure
what book I should be picking up next.

Thanks,
June

Hello Venerable Nyanatusita,

I know that I am not John, but would it be possible to send me a copy of
this work as well?  I am quite interested in it, though I guess that I am
most interested in the many footnotes more than anything else.  Of course I
will not post them, but just use them for reference in my translation.  I am
sorry if this would have been better sent via private e-mail, but I hesitate
to bother people off list.  Additionally, thank you for the note about the
translation regarding copyright law, it makes sense to me.

Metta,

Alan

----- Original Message -----
From: "nyanatusita" <nyanatusita@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:41 AM
Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali - Every few days - [C270] question for John K.


> ---
> Dear John,
>
> I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of Bodhinyana
> Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made already a detailed
> translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with many footnotes, etc,
> which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS website. PTS was not
> interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
> I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as it is a translation.
> Mettaya,
>            Bhikkhu Nyanatusita
>
> In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "alanmcclure3" <alanmcclure3@y...> wrote:
>> John,
>>
>> I would like to start translating the exercises in the Warder book on
>> another website, focusing only on the Pali to English translations and
>> including a grammatical analysis of each word.  However, it makes me
>> wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by doing this.
>> Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I wanted to ask you
>> what the deal is with the copyright, etc.
>>
>> Can I assume that including such translations on my website would not
>> be problematic?
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> web only.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "junet9876" <junet9876@y...> wrote:
> Has anyone had the experience of looking into the Abhidhamma texts?
> I've read the Abhidhammasangaha by Bhikkhu Bodhi, but I'm not sure
> what book I should be picking up next.
>
> Thanks,
> June
Dear June,
I've looked at soem Abhidhamma, you could try the Dispeller of
Delusion (vol1 and II) pali text society, as a good next book.
Robertk

Hi!

I have the same interest! But I'm also very interested in the Suttas!

It'll probably take some time though. Pali is one of the most
difficult languages I've come across (and I've come across Thai,
Chinese, Japanese, Spanish, German--though I've forgotten them all).

But I think lots of reading is the key.

June

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@x> wrote:
> Hi Hugh,
> Welcome. I am also very interested in Abhidhamma and its
commentaries. Let
> us share this interest,
> Nina.
> op 29-07-2005 06:15 schreef Marj Cannon/Hugh Moore op marj-hugh@c...:
>
> > I joined the group today after learning about it on the Access to
Insight
> > web site.  I am especially interested in Vipassana meditation and
in the
> > Abhidhamma.  I hope to eventually gain enough of a reading
knowledge of Pali
> > to be able to read some of the Abhidhamma texts - especially
commentaries -
> > that are in Roman script.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Pali
group.

   File        : /Fonts/Verajja.zip
   Uploaded by : bpesala <pesala@...>
   Description : Update of my Unicode font for Pali, Sanskrit, and Vietanamese.
Contains many symbols too.

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

bpesala <pesala@...>

Dear Alan,

That's wonderful news that you will be doing another
translation of the Warder exercises with full
grammatical analysis. I hope you will be posting your
solutions to this list as you go.  Please be sure to
compare with my solutions while you are doing it too,
and send any feedback to me via this group - I'm sure
you'll spot many errors I may have made!

Concerning copyright issues, as a few others have
already noted, I don't think it's a problem since
these are your own translations, and the text of what
you are translating comes straight from the Tipitaka
which is in the public domain.  My solutions have been
posted on
http://accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/kelly/answers/index.html
and on http://www.tipitaka.net/pali/palidd/ and nobody
has raised copyright as an issue.

With metta,
John
-------------------------------------------------

John,

I would like to start translating the exercises in the

Warder book on
another website, focusing only on the Pali to English
translations and
including a grammatical analysis of each word.
However, it
makes me
wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by

doing this.
Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I
wanted
to ask you
what the deal is with the copyright, etc.

Can I assume that including such translations on my
website
would not
be problematic?

Thanks for your help,

Alan

Dear Bhante,

I look forward to seeing these solutions of Ven.
Brahmali - especially the footnotes.

With metta,
John
---------------------------------------------
Dear John,

I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of
Bodhinyana
Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made already
a
detailed
translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with many
footnotes, etc,
which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS
website.
PTS was not
interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as it
is a
translation.
Mettaya,
             Bhikkhu Nyanatusita

Dear friends,
My postings of this series has been on hold for a
couple of weeks as I am not at home at the moment, but
am on travels around the US and I only have
infrequent, sporadic access to the internet.  I will
send the occasional instalment whenever I can.

Pali - Every few days - [C275]
Warder - Exercise 21 (page 176)
Passages for Reading 2 (Part 35 of 41)

dutiyam pi kho Vaase.t.thaa so satto …pe… tatiyam pi
kho Vaase.t.thaa so satto saka.m bhaaga.m
parirakkhanto a~n~natara.m bhaaga.m adinna.m
aadiyitvaa paribhu~nji.
a second time / indeed / Vasettha (and Bharadvaja) /
this / being / … etc. … / a third time / this / being
/ own / share / protecting / a certain / share / not
given / having taken / he ate
Vasettha and Bharadvaja, a second time this being …
etc. … and a third time this being, guarding his own
share, took the share of another that hadn’t been
given and ate it.

tam ena.m aggahesu.m, aggahetvaa etad avocu.m:
paapaka.m vata bho satta karosi, yatra hi naama saka.m
bhaaga.m parirakkhanto a~n~natara.m bhaaga.m adinna.m
aadiyitvaa paribhu~njasi.
then / that one / they seized / having seized / this /
they said / evil / alas! / sir / being / you do / in
as much as / own / share / protecting / a certain /
share / not given / having taken / you ate
So they seized that one and said to him: “Alas, sir!
You have done wrong when, guarding your own share, you
took the share of another that hadn’t been given and
ate it

maa ssu bho satta puna pi evaruupam akaasii ti.
do not / even / sir / being / again / such-thing / you
do / (end-quote)
Never again do such a thing!”

Metta, John

Ajahn Nyanatusita,

If Ajahn Brahmali's notes is digital, they could be posted on Ajahn Sujato's
Sutta-Central website which is about halfway done.

I would love to see these notes, too.

Namakkara.m

Piya Tan]
Brahm Education Centre
Singapore

--- nyanatusita <nyanatusita@...> wrote:

> ---
> Dear John,
>
> I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of Bodhinyana
> Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made already a detailed
> translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with many footnotes,
> etc,
> which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS website. PTS was
> not
> interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
> I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as it is a
> translation.
> Mettaya,
>             Bhikkhu Nyanatusita
>
> In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "alanmcclure3" <alanmcclure3@y...> wrote:
> > John,
> >
> > I would like to start translating the exercises in the Warder book
> on
> > another website, focusing only on the Pali to English translations
> and
> > including a grammatical analysis of each word.  However, it makes
> me
> > wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by doing this.
>
> > Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I wanted to ask
> you
> > what the deal is with the copyright, etc.
> >
> > Can I assume that including such translations on my website would
> not
> > be problematic?
> >
> > Thanks for your help,
> >
> > Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest
> or web only.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Some members may be interested in a fairly recent book though obviously of
less interest to traditionalists.

"Early Buddhist Metaphysics -- The making of a philosophical tradition" by
Noa Rankin, RoutledgeCurzon 2005.

A very interesting book but very expensive.  The back blurb begins "This
book provides a philosophiocal account of the major doctrinal shift in the
history of early Theravada tradition in India: the transition from the
earliest straum of Buddhist thought to the systematic and allegedly
scholastic philosophy of the Pali Abhidama movement" etc.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge

PS: Concerning upekkhaa-sati-parisuddhi -- I would prefer not to enlarge
upon my comments on this term at present to avoid the kind of unskilful
behaviour we experienced not too long ago here.  Too many fondly-held
assumptions might be challenged.

Dear Nina:
    As I am reading SN Sagathavagga against Chinese SA with Ven.
Bodhi's translation, I found "appadu.t.thapadosinan" of Stanza
SN 1.3.1 had been translated into Chinese as "Not offending against
others will not receive hatred from the others". This translation
had been done at the year of A.C. 443. It sounds the original
translator (Ven. Gunabhadra) treated "appadu.t.tha" as "not offending
against" and "dosa" as "hatred".
   Could you help me to offer the grammatical analysis
of "appadu.t.thapadosinan"?
     Yifer

> Hi Yifer,
> op 31-07-2005 14:46 schreef yifertw op yifertw@y...:
> > The first verse of SN 1.3.1 is:
> > Naaphusanta.m phusati ca, phusanta~nca tato phuse;
> > tasmaa phusanta.m phusati, appadu.t.thapadosinan.
> > Ven. Bodhi's translation is:
> > [It does not touch one who does not touch,
> > But then will touch the one who touches.
> > Therefore it touches the one who touches,
> > The one who wrongs an innocent man.]
>
> > My questions are:
> > 1. There are two "it" in this verse, what does it stand for?
> > Does it stand for "kamma" or these to sentence just to
> > convince readers not to act that way?
> > 2. There are 6 "touch" in this verse, what does it stand for
> > respectively?
> -----
> PTS footnote: two meanings of touch, an active one (performing
kamma) and a
> passive one: receiving the result of kamma, thus, vipaaka.
> 1: vipaaka will not come to (touch) the person who 2.does not
commit kamma.
> (touch, makes feel, commit kamma)
> 3. But then will touch (vipaaka will touch), 4 the one who touches
(who
> commits kamma)
> 5 Therefore it touches the one (vipaaka touches), 6 who touches
(who commits
> kamma).
> First part of your Q. may also be solved now.
> Nina.

Dear Alan,

It is not exactly clear to me what the relation between this group and
www.tipitaka.net is but we could put a PDF file with Brahmali's
translation there if that is possible. He is very keen to receive
feedback on it.
As more people might want it it would be easier if they could download
it from tipitaka.net rather than me having to send it to them. If you
can arrange this then I would be happy.
It is a translation of the Pali given in Warder's exercises. There is
no copyright on Pali.
Yours in the Dhamma,
                     Bh. Nyanatusita




--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Alan McClure" <alanmcclure3@y...> wrote:
> Hello Venerable Nyanatusita,
>
> I know that I am not John, but would it be possible to send me a
copy of
> this work as well?  I am quite interested in it, though I guess that
I am
> most interested in the many footnotes more than anything else.  Of
course I
> will not post them, but just use them for reference in my
translation.  I am
> sorry if this would have been better sent via private e-mail, but I
hesitate
> to bother people off list.  Additionally, thank you for the note
about the
> translation regarding copyright law, it makes sense to me.
>
> Metta,
>
> Alan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "nyanatusita" <nyanatusita@g...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 11:41 AM
> Subject: [Pali] Re: Pali - Every few days - [C270] question for John K.
>
>
> > ---
> > Dear John,
> >
> > I would like to let you know that Ven. Brahmali of Bodhinyana
> > Monastery, Perth, Western Australia, has made already a detailed
> > translation of the Pali exercises in Warder with many footnotes, etc,
> > which I intend to put up at the forthcoming BPS website. PTS was not
> > interested for some reason. I can send you a copy.
> > I dont believe there is a copyright infringment as it is a
translation.
> > Mettaya,
> >            Bhikkhu Nyanatusita
> >
> > In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "alanmcclure3" <alanmcclure3@y...> wrote:
> >> John,
> >>
> >> I would like to start translating the exercises in the Warder book on
> >> another website, focusing only on the Pali to English
translations and
> >> including a grammatical analysis of each word.  However, it makes me
> >> wonder if there would be any copyright infringement by doing this.
> >> Since I suspect that you have checked into this, I wanted to ask you
> >> what the deal is with the copyright, etc.
> >>
> >> Can I assume that including such translations on my website would not
> >> be problematic?
> >>
> >> Thanks for your help,
> >>
> >> Alan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> > Paaliga.na - a community for Pali students
> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily
digest or
> > web only.
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >