I've published my blog in which I explore a passage from the Culamalunkya Sutta
(M 63)--this is the one where the man won't be treated for his arrow wound
without knowing all the details of the archer and his equipment. It was the
details that caught my attention (yes, I know...)

http://jayarava.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/irrelevant-details.html

Puzzled by the available translations I started to dissect the Pali, both mula
and attakatha, and discovered a number of oddities.

Earlier I asked about the word 'sithilahanu' and it's connection with the
'stork'. My conclusion is that the connection is a fallacy perpetuated by some
rather well known scholars. Sadly I think this one of word is lost to us, as is
'semhaara'. But I think I might have resurrected a couple of words from
obscurity, by thinking in terms of archery instead of the metaphysics (though to
be fair the main point of the sutta is metaphysical).

Following Bryan Levman's suggestion I went through the parallel Chinese text and
picked out the key words for comparison, though in this case it wasn't much help
since the Chinese appear largely to have substituted familiar materials for the
unfamiliar Indian ones. I've included all my notes on comparisons with the Pali
terminology, for anyone who might be interested.

Regards
Jayarava

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone can comment on the accuracy of the Pali
language found in the following text:

Wisdom and the 73 Kinds of Mundane and Supramundane Knowledge
(te-sattati ~naa.naa)

translated by Bhikkhu Nyanadassana

and found here:

http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?pid=586 [1]

Thanks

Mike


Links:
------
[1] http://www.buddhistelibrary.org/en/displayimage.php?pid=586



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Ninti,
Op 7-apr-2012, om 5:09 heeft ninti@... het volgende
geschreven:

> I'm wondering if anyone can comment on the accuracy of the Pali
> language found in the following text:
>
> Wisdom and the 73 Kinds of Mundane and Supramundane Knowledge
> (te-sattati ~naa.naa)
------
N: This is correct. 67 kinds are shared by disciples and 6 are not
shared by disciples, thus, only of the Buddha.
Understanding can be classified in so many ways, it has many levels
and it has diverse objects.
There is understanding stemming from listening, pariyatti, there is
understanding on the level of pa.tipatti, that is, satipa.t.thaana,
there is pativedha, including the different levels of insight
knowledge, then there is understanding that is lokuttara,
experiencing nibbaana and eradicating defilements.
Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Jayarava,

I've read your very detailed entry on this passage and it is very impressive! I
too agree that (as they say in architecture) "God is in the details." All we
have is the words, so it is imperative that we understand them properly and
preserve their meanings. As Norman says, our first job is to understand what the
words mean, and why they mean what they mean.

A few comments:

1) sallakattam; the only phonological explanation for the -tt- is if the
geminate replaced an original conjunct consonant. The only one that would be
contextually relevant is the noun karta which means "hole, cavity." It is an old
Rig Vedic word; if this is the -katta in sallakatta, it would mean "hole of the
arrow," but this still does not make sense grammatically as object of
upaṭṭhapeyyuṃ (unless we treat it as a bahubbīhi - yassa katto sallena
atthi- "whose hole (wound) is by an arrow."

That also assumes upaṭṭhapeyyuṃ can take two objects. "They summoned the
doctor to the one whose wound was (made by) an arrow.

 In the Concise Pali-English Dictionary, Buddhadatta gives sallakatta as
"surgeon" which, if correct, would then be in apposition to bhisakkaṃ
(physician). He does not give any etymology. In this case the meaning would
simply be "They summoned a physician, a surgeon." In  any case, if sallakatta
really does carry the meaning "surgeon," it is probably a metaphor for the
original meaning of "arrow-wound;" meaning "he who looks after arrow-wounds."

2) kodaṇḍa is not a cross-bow, but a native bow as used by the indigenous
peoples whom the Aryan in-migrants encountered when they entered India. It is
believed to be a word of Munda origin (one of the indigenous peoples of
north-eastern, sub-Himalayan India which spoke an Austro-Asiatic, not an Aryan,
language). ko- is a well-known Munda prefix.
For details on the word see F. B. J. Kuiper, Proto-Munda Words in Sanskrit
(Amsterdam: N.V. Noord-Hollandsche Uitgevers Maatschappij, 1948), page 78 and
Michael Witzel, "Substrate Languages in Old Indo-Aryan (Ṛgvedic, Middle and
Late Vedic)", Electronic Journal for Vedic Studies, 5 (1999), 16. Even Mayrhofer
(who  tries hard to find Aryan etymologies in all Old Indic words), calls
daṇḍa "a contested, still undecided etymological problem." However, many of
these Vedic words with the -ṇḍa- component are believed to be of
non-Indo-Aryan origin, as Indo Aryan did not originally contain retroflex
consonants but borrowed them from either Munda or Dravidian.  See Also Alfred
C. Woolner, "Prakritic and non-Aryan Strata in the Vocabulary of Sanskrit", 
Sir Asutosh Memorial Volume (Patna, 1926-1928): 65-71.

3) On the Chinese translations. Many of these are not translations, but
transliterations; obviously the translator did not know the meaning of the word
or did not have a translation for it (as it was an Indian indigenous species
with no native Chinese equivalent) so he/she transliterated the original
Prakrit. Enough studies have been done now, so that we know the original
language was a Prakrit, and one which preserved the original palatal and
retroflex sibilants, as you pointed out with respect ot śala. For a recent
study on what the source language is (and whether it is Gāndhārī which a lot
of scholars beleive) see Boucher, Daniel. 1998. "Gāndhārī and the early
Chinese Buddhist translations reconsidered: the case of the
Saddharmapuṇḍarīkasūtra." Journal of the American Oriental Society 118,
no.4: 471-506. In order to decode the Chinese one needs to know what the
phonetic value of Middle Chinese is (the recipient language into which the
Prakrit was translated). For this I use Edwin G. Pulleyblank, Lexicon of
Reconstructed Pronunciation in Early Middle Chinese, Late Middle Chinese, and
Early Mandarin (Vancouver: UBC Press, 1991). duō luó wood, for example,
(多羅木) is the tala (palmyra) tree, duo = ta in Middle Chinese phonetics and
luo = la, which you can find in Pulleyblank's book.  Shě luó wood 舍羅木
(pronounced sha-la in Middle Chinese) is probably the bamboo (Skt. śalākā).
You may be able to resolve some of the other mysteries by referring to this
helpful work.

Hope the above helps in your studies. Keep up the fascinating (and valuable!)
work,

Metta, Bryan




________________________________
  From: jayarava <jayarava@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, June 1, 2012 4:22:35 AM
Subject: [Pali] Pali archery terms [was Sithilahanu]


 
I've published my blog in which I explore a passage from the Culamalunkya Sutta
(M 63)--this is the one where the man won't be treated for his arrow wound
without knowing all the details of the archer and his equipment. It was the
details that caught my attention (yes, I know...)

http://jayarava.blogspot.co.uk/2012/06/irrelevant-details.html

Puzzled by the available translations I started to dissect the Pali, both mula
and attakatha, and discovered a number of oddities.

Earlier I asked about the word 'sithilahanu' and it's connection with the
'stork'. My conclusion is that the connection is a fallacy perpetuated by some
rather well known scholars. Sadly I think this one of word is lost to us, as is
'semhaara'. But I think I might have resurrected a couple of words from
obscurity, by thinking in terms of archery instead of the metaphysics (though to
be fair the main point of the sutta is metaphysical).

Following Bryan Levman's suggestion I went through the parallel Chinese text and
picked out the key words for comparison, though in this case it wasn't much help
since the Chinese appear largely to have substituted familiar materials for the
unfamiliar Indian ones. I've included all my notes on comparisons with the Pali
terminology, for anyone who might be interested.

Regards
Jayarava




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks so much for these insights Bryan. I could wish that Yahoo did Unicode,
but I think most of it is clear. I'll edit the article tomorrow to reflect your
input.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

A 2-day Workshop on
Jhana & Samadhi
According to the Suttas

Conducted by Ayasma Kumara

7-8 July 2012
9am�5pm (Registration 8.30am)
Buddhist Gem Fellowship, PJ, Malaysia

Is jhana necessary for awakening? Some say yes, some say no. Ayasma Kumara says
it depends on which kind of jhana.

With evidence based on scholarly research and practical experience, he
         * reveals facts regarding jhana and samadhi that most
Buddhists�including many long time meditators�are unaware of.
         * also explores with the participants popular English translations of
key Pali terms related to samadhi (e.g., concentration, onepointedness), and
proposes English words that better convey what the Pali terms mean according to
the Suttas.

Then he suggests how we can make wise judgements for our practice in the face of
different and conflicting teachings and opinions on Buddhist meditation.

Suitable for ordained and lay Buddhist teachers and meditation practitioners
with basic knowledge of Pali terms.

Registration

SMS Tan Chin Aik 012 955 9731 / Ooi Chin Chye 012 311 8094
J&S <name> <gender> <email>

EMAIL bgf.dhammaduta@...
Subject: Jhana & Samadhi
Content: <Name><Gender><Mobile Number>

CLOSING DATE: 7 July 2012

Enquiries: bgf.dhammaduta@...


Program Schedule
7 July
8.30am      Registration
9.00am      Session 1: Introduction, Icebreaker, Presentation
10.30am    Break (15 min)
10.45am    Session 2: Comparing Two Kinds of Jhana, Q&A
12.00pm    Lunch break
1.30pm      Session 3: Guided Practice, Sharing Experiences
3.00pm      Break (30 min)
3.30pm      Session 4: Revising English Translation for  Samatha
5.00pm      End of day
8 July
9.00am      Session 5: Revising English Translation for  Samadhi
10.30am    Break (15 min)
10.45am    Session 6: Revising English Translation for  Ekaggata
12.00pm    Lunch break
1.30pm      Session 7: Revising English Translation for  Jhana
3.00pm      Break (30 min)
3.30pm      Session 8: Summary, Conclusion, Q&A
5.00pm      End of workshop

Ayasma Kumara was ordained in 1999 at the age of 27. With his training in
education, he has been sharing the Dhamma in various ways and in several
languages (mainly English, Mandarin and Hokkien) with Buddhists of various
traditions and non-Buddhists too. Inspired by his main meditation teacher,
Sayadaw U Tejaniya, Ayasma Kumara has been especially interested in spiritual
teachings that show how to cultivate wisdom that removes the causes of
suffering. Influenced by Ayasma Aggacitta Mahathera, he is open to Dhamma
teachings beyond orthodoxy and tradition, so long as they work towards the true
ending of suffering.

peace

Kum�ra Bhikkhu

Catch the news from Sasanarakkha Buddhist Sanctuary! To be informed of special
activities in SBS and Dhamma teaching tours by SBS monks, join SBSmail:
         * EITHER register at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbsmail/join/ (Yahoo!
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         * OR send a blank mail to sbsmail-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (If you
don't have and don't want a Yahoo! ID, when you get the request for
confirmation, just click reply and send off mail, with or without the body
text.)

Dear members,

I have uploaded a new paper. It is entitled "Intellectual Property in Early
Buddhism: A Legal and Cultural Perspective." It is an extended and revised
version of a paper I presented at the International Buddhist Conference (2012
Feb.), Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University, Anuradhapura, Sri Lanka, and the
abstract is as follows:

"In this paper, I examine the modern concepts of intellectual property, and
account for their significance in monastic law and culture of early Buddhism. As
a result, I have come to the following conclusions:
1. The infringement of copyrights, patents, and trademarks does not amount to
theft as far as Theravadin Vinaya is concerned.
2. A trademark infringement involves telling a deliberate lie, so entails an
offense of expiation (paacittiya), but I cannot find any Vinaya rule which is
transgressed by copyright and patent infringements.
3. The Buddha did recognize the right to intellectual credit, but owing to the
commenta­rial interpretations, some traditional circles have come to maintain
that intellectual credit can be transferred to someone else."

As I intend to send it to a scholarly journal, I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved. All comments are hearily welcome.

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

I wonder if you may have come across an article on the same topic by Ven Varado
written some years ago. He arrived at similar conclusions.

It's a bit amusing to me though when I read "I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved".

kb

ashinpan wrote thus at 12:43 a 17/06/2012:

>Dear members,
>
>I have uploaded a new paper. It is entitled "Intellectual Property in Early
Buddhism: A Legal and Cultural Perspective." It is an extended and revised
version of a paper I presented at the International Buddhist Conference (2012
Feb.), Buddhasravaka Bhiksu University, Anuradhapura, Sri Lanka, and the
abstract is as follows:
>
>"In this paper, I examine the modern concepts of intellectual property, and
account for their significance in monastic law and culture of early Buddhism. As
a result, I have come to the following conclusions:
>1. The infringement of copyrights, patents, and trademarks does not amount to
theft as far as Theravadin Vinaya is concerned.
>2. A trademark infringement involves telling a deliberate lie, so entails an
offense of expiation (paacittiya), but I cannot find any Vinaya rule which is
transgressed by copyright and patent infringements.
>3. The Buddha did recognize the right to intellectual credit, but owing to the
commenta­rial interpretations, some traditional circles have come to maintain
that intellectual credit can be transferred to someone else."
>
>As I intend to send it to a scholarly journal, I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved. All comments are hearily welcome.
>
>with metta,
>
>Ven. Pandita

Dear venerables,

I believe that means the rights to be right, and the rights to be wrong.


metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu wrote:

It's a bit amusing to me though when I read "I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved".

> As I intend to send it to a scholarly journal, I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved. All comments are hearily welcome.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if you may have come across an article on the same topic by Ven
Varado written some years ago. He arrived at similar conclusions.

No, I don't know about that. I would be much obliged if you can point out a link
to Ven. Varado's work.

> It's a bit amusing to me though when I read "I must state as usual that all
rights are reserved".

I find it funny as well, given that I even do not know what the so-called "all
rights" mean. I am only following the suggestion of a student of mine. What he
said was basically as follows.

When your research paper is accepted by a scholarly journal, you must transfer
copyrights and whatnot to the journal. But you can transfer your rights only
when you have them, not when others have already taken these away. Therefore,
you should mention such reservations when you upload your work to public email
lists like the Pali Group.

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

Dear Yong Peng,

You wrote:
>
> Dear venerables,
>
> I believe that means the rights to be right, and the rights to be wrong.
>

As I replied to Ven. Kumara in the previous message, I really do not know what
"all rights reserved" means. I just mention that to prevent complications
arising when I have to publish papers in scholarly journals.

Is there any alternative for achieving the same end? I would be much obliged if
you can suggest me on this matter.

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

Dear Ven. Kumara,

Thanks to Google, I think I have found the article of Ven. Varado in the article
archives of http://sasanarakkha.org. I wish I found it earlier; then, my paper
might have been completed much sooner.

Both Ven. Varado and myself base our arguments on two minor rules of expiation.
So our conclusions are also similar. But there are important differences:

1. Ven. Varado thinks that a monk infringing copyrights can incur a minor
offense, but I think that even though he may be making millions by selling
pirated books, his copyright infringement, by itself, does not incur any Vinaya
offense. (See my reasoning at p. 6.)

2. Ven. Varado thinks that "for monks vinaya is not a replacement for law but an
addition to it," but I believe in the legal autonomy of the Order. Of course, I
do not deny that a monk is not only a monk but also a resident of a certain
country and accordingly subject to its rules and regulations, but I argue that
secular legality is not the business of the Vinaya, nor of the Buddha.(See p.
14-17.)

Well, my paper has already been sent to a journal but I will ask the editor the
protocol appropriate in this matter. If possible, I will add some more material
to my paper so that I can give credit to, and also criticize, Ven. Varado.

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

Try Creative Commons. It's far more flexible. Good to consult the journal too
though.


ashinpan wrote thus at 08:57 p 17/06/2012:
>As I replied to Ven. Kumara in the previous message, I really do not know what
"all rights reserved" means. I just mention that to prevent complications
arising when I have to publish papers in scholarly journals.
>
>Is there any alternative for achieving the same end? I would be much obliged if
you can suggest me on this matter.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
>
> Try Creative Commons. It's far more flexible. Good to consult the journal too
though.
>

Well, I have checked the Wikipedia entry for Creative Commons, and consequently
got confused. There are 4 factors which can be combined into 15 types of
licenses!

On the other hand, I like the copyright notice that accompanies the papers
published by the Journal of Buddhist Ethics. It runs: "Digital copies of this
work may be made and distributed provided no change is made and no alteration is
made to the content. Reproduction in any other format, with the exception of a
single copy for private study, requires the written permission of the author.
All enquiries to:
<editor's email address>". So I will put something similar onto the title pages
of my paper uploaded here, instead of writing in my posts.

Thanks anyway,

Ven. Pandita

Dear Ven. Kumara and other members,

I have uploaded the revised version of the paper on Intellectual property
(intellectual_property_v2.pdf). I have given credit to Ven. Varado's
contribution and also given full explanation where I have to differ from him. In
short, I believe I have done my best to follow the advice of my editor, who
says, "it is possible to be critical of an idea without being mean about it."

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

--- On Sat, 6/16/12, Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...> wrote:

From: Jacques Huynen <jhuynen@...>
Subject: Fwd: Two-weeks intensive introduction to Pali @Berkeley University
To: jhuynen@...
Date: Saturday, June 16, 2012, 3:26 PM



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: lin.ikomo <lin.ikomo@...>
Date: Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 2:05 AM

Subject: Two-weeks intensive introduction to Pali @Berkeley University
To: "lin@... Lin" <lin.ikomo@...>



Dear All;







Mangalam Research Center for Buddhist Languages in Berkeley is pleased to
host the famous two-week intensive introduction to Pali taught by Professor



Richard Gombrich (University of Oxford). This will be the eleventh time Dr.
Gombrich has offered this highly successful course at various locations
around the world. The dates are January 7-18, 2013.




The course aims to enable students to read on their own the words of the
Buddha as recorded in the Tipitaka. Rather than memorization and
examinations, the focus is on developing the ability to make sense of Pali



texts. A basic component involves showing students how to use available
dictionaries, grammars, and translations. Students are also provided with
clear and simple tables that lay out the most common sets of inflections of



nouns, pronouns, and verbs. The course does include memorizing a few Pali
chants (which many Theravada Buddhists will already know); the emphasis
will, however, be on understanding each word in the chants. The
pronunciation of Pali will follow the Indian tradition, much as it is used



in Sri Lanka.

The course will be given in English over 11 days (no class on Sunday,
January 13). Participants should have a good understanding of spoken and
written English, as well as knowledge of common grammatical terms, such as



pronoun, relative clause, and transitive verb. There will be about six hours
of classroom work each day, in addition to which students will be expected
to work together as a group without a teacher for 2-3 hours per day. By the



end of the course, all students will be able to tackle Pali texts in the
original by themselves. The course is limited to 14 participants.

To apply, please submit an informal application by September 15, 2012 to



inquiries@.... Include a short statement of purpose and a
description of language skills and how acquired; a letter of recommendation



for students affiliated with an institution of higher learning will be
helpful. Applicants will be notified whether they have been accepted by
September 30, 2012.

Tuition for the 11-day Intensive is $550. A vegetarian lunch will be served



to all participants every day the class meets. Lodging at a convenient
nearby location is available for approximately $40/night.

Selected bibliography:
Cone, Margaret, A Dictionary of Pāli. Part I: a – kh. Oxford: Pāli Text



Society, 2001.
Cone, Margaret, A Dictionary of Pāli. Part II: g – n. Bristol: Pāli Text
Society, 2010.
Geiger, Wilhelm (tr. Batakrishna Ghosh; rev. K.R. Norman), A Pāli Grammar.
Oxford: Pāli Text Society, 1994.



Rhys Davids, T. W., & William Stede, A Pāli-English Dictionary. London: Pāli
Text Society, 1959.
Warder, A. K., Introduction to Pāli. 3rd ed. Oxford: Pāli Text Society,
1999.

Jack Petranker
Director, Mangalam Research Center



Project Coordinator, Buddhist Translators Workbench
510-809-1003



--
Jacques Huynen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good idea. Such clear and reasonable copyright statements make a lot more sense
compared to the "standard" one which people don't really understand. You can
also make your own concoction out of the 4 attributes of CC.

Btw, the titles of your uploads on yahoogroups aren't always easily understood
at a glance. E.g. "correct.pdf". Wonder if you'd be willing to title them so
that they are scannable. E.g. "Consent for Ordination".

ashinpan wrote thus at 04:36 p 19/06/2012:
>--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
>>
>> Try Creative Commons. It's far more flexible. Good to consult the journal too
though.
>>
>
>Well, I have checked the Wikipedia entry for Creative Commons, and consequently
got confused. There are 4 factors which can be combined into 15 types of
licenses!
>
>On the other hand, I like the copyright notice that accompanies the papers
published by the Journal of Buddhist Ethics. It runs: "Digital copies of this
work may be made and distributed provided no change is made and no alteration is
made to the content. Reproduction in any other format, with the exception of a
single copy for private study, requires the written permission of the author.
All enquiries to:
><editor's email address>". So I will put something similar onto the title pages
of my paper uploaded here, instead of writing in my posts.
>
>Thanks anyway,
>
>Ven. Pandita

ashinpan wrote thus at 11:51 p 17/06/2012:
>Dear Ven. Kumara,
>
>Thanks to Google, I think I have found the article of Ven. Varado in the
article archives of http://sasanarakkha.org. I wish I found it earlier; then, my
paper might have been completed much sooner.

Good that you found it. He wrote a similar piece earlier, and when I ask for his
permission to publish it on Sasanarakkha Newszine, he provided that updated
version.


>Both Ven. Varado and myself base our arguments on two minor rules of expiation.
So our conclusions are also similar. But there are important differences:
>
>1. Ven. Varado thinks that a monk infringing copyrights can incur a minor
offense, but I think that even though he may be making millions by selling
pirated books, his copyright infringement, by itself, does not incur any Vinaya
offense. (See my reasoning at p. 6.)

Perhaps not by letter. But in spirit, since this is not just a matter of copying
for personal use, but for the purpose of making money out of it, I would think
that it's a dukkata.


>2. Ven. Varado thinks that "for monks vinaya is not a replacement for law but
an addition to it," but I believe in the legal autonomy of the Order. Of course,
I do not deny that a monk is not only a monk but also a resident of a certain
country and accordingly subject to its rules and regulations, but I argue that
secular legality is not the business of the Vinaya, nor of the Buddha.(See p.
14-17.)

I think you two don't actually disagree on this point in spirit.


>Well, my paper has already been sent to a journal but I will ask the editor the
protocol appropriate in this matter. If possible, I will add some more material
to my paper so that I can give credit to, and also criticize, Ven. Varado.

You mean his arguments, right?


peace

Kum�ra Bhikkhu

Catch the news from Sasanarakkha Buddhist Sanctuary! To be informed of special
activities in SBS and Dhamma teaching tours by SBS monks, join SBSmail:
         * EITHER register at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sbsmail/join/ (Yahoo!
ID required. You can read the group description here too.)
         * OR send a blank mail to sbsmail-subscribe@yahoogroups.com (If you
don't have and don't want a Yahoo! ID, when you get the request for
confirmation, just click reply and send off mail, with or without the body
text.)

Dear Ven. Kumara

You wrote:
> Btw, the titles of your uploads on yahoogroups aren't always easily understood
at a glance. E.g. "correct.pdf". Wonder if you'd be willing to title them so
that they are scannable. E.g. "Consent for Ordination".

Well, I did give a brief description together with each file I have uploaded.
Nevertheless, more descriptive file names may be better, anyway. I will try to
do better with my forthcoming papers. Thanks for the suggestion.

with metta,

Ven. Pandita

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Kumara Bhikkhu <kumara.bhikkhu@...> wrote:
>
> >1. Ven. Varado thinks that a monk infringing copyrights can incur a minor
offense, but I think that even though he may be making millions by selling
pirated books, his copyright infringement, by itself, does not incur any Vinaya
offense. (See my reasoning at p. 6.)
>
> Perhaps not by letter. But in spirit, since this is not just a matter of
copying for personal use, but for the purpose of making money out of it, I would
think that it's a dukkata.
>

No, I think we are different in spirit as well. Please check my newly uploaded
paper.

> >2. Ven. Varado thinks that "for monks vinaya is not a replacement for law but
an addition to it," but I believe in the legal autonomy of the Order. Of course,
I do not deny that a monk is not only a monk but also a resident of a certain
country and accordingly subject to its rules and regulations, but I argue that
secular legality is not the business of the Vinaya, nor of the Buddha.(See p.
14-17.)
>
> I think you two don't actually disagree on this point in spirit.
>

Again, I must refer you to my new version of the paper.

>
> You mean his arguments, right?
>

Of course, academic papers are not for personal attacks :).

with metta

Ven. Pandita

Dear Ven. Pandita,

please refer to Yahoo! Terms of Service, which applies to the use of onlines
services hosted by Yahoo! for forums, mailing lists, and sharing of information.
There are clauses which explicitly mention Yahoo! Groups, which are of interest
to you.

http://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/en-us/

metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, ashinpan wrote:

As I replied to Ven. Kumara in the previous message, I really do not know what
"all rights reserved" means. I just mention that to prevent complications
arising when I have to publish papers in scholarly journals.

Dear Yong Peng
You wrote:
>
> please refer to Yahoo! Terms of Service, which applies to the use of onlines
services hosted by Yahoo! for forums, mailing lists, and sharing of information.
There are clauses which explicitly mention Yahoo! Groups, which are of interest
to you.

I have done so, and I am confused by the following:
"However, with respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on
publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services, you grant Yahoo! the following
worldwide, royalty-free and non-exclusive license(s), as applicable:
a. With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on
publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute,
reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on
the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the
specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available. "

As far as I understand it, it is applicable to my papers uploaded here thus: any
member can cite parts of my paper in the Group discussion or make a modified
version for use in the Group only. Is it correct?

with metta

Dear Dhamma friends,

in Tikandaka Sutta, a discourse on the agreeable and the disagreeable (the
contemplations called as ariya iddhi).

I do not understand very well why it is said, incases 3 and 4 the followinf
(Nyanaponika Thero Translation):

(3) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the repulsive in the
unrepulsive as well as in the repulsive? (He should do so with the thought:)
'May no lust arise in me for lust- inducing objects, and may no hatred arise in
me towards hate-inducing objects!'

(4) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the unrepulsive in the
repulsive as well as in the unrepulsive? (He should do so with the thought:)
'May no hatred arise in me towardshate-inducing objects, and may no lust arise
in me for lust-inducing objects!'

I would say, in case 3: in both cases "may ... not arise in me for hateinducing
objects".

I would say in case 4, in both cases: "may ... not arise in me for
lust inducing objetcs".


Any suggestion or idea about why it is phrased in that way (I checked the pali
and Nyanaponika's rendering is correct).

With metta and thankfulness,

Be happy :)

Dear Be happy,
Op 12-jun-2012, om 11:27 heeft behappydfgt het volgende geschreven:

> in Tikandaka Sutta, a discourse on the agreeable and the
> disagreeable (the contemplations called as ariya iddhi).
>
> I do not understand very well why it is said, incases 3 and 4 the
> followinf (Nyanaponika Thero Translation):
>
> (3) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the repulsive
> in the unrepulsive as well as in the repulsive? (He should do so
> with the thought:) 'May no lust arise in me for lust- inducing
> objects, and may no hatred arise in me towards hate-inducing objects!'
>
> (4) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the unrepulsive
> in the repulsive as well as in the unrepulsive? (He should do so
> with the thought:) 'May no hatred arise in me towardshate-inducing
> objects, and may no lust arise in me for lust-inducing objects!'
>
> I would say, in case 3: in both cases "may ... not arise in me for
> hateinducing objects".
>
> I would say in case 4, in both cases: "may ... not arise in me for
> lust inducing objetcs".
>
--------
N:  I think this sutta points to equanimity, evenmindedness. It does
not matter what object presents itself, they are all equal in this
respect that they are only impermanent mental phenomena, naama, and
physical phenomena, ruupa. Each object falls away immediately, no
matter it is pleasant or unpleasant, it is paritta, of slight
importance.
Through vipassanaa we all can very, very gradually learn this. If an
object is very beautiful we can learn to see it as only a reality
which does not stay. What falls away immediately is not really
beautiful. When an object is very dirty, very ugly, we can learn that
it is only a reality that does not stay. It is just an element, why
should one have aversion towards an element?
All these texts we should not consider as theoretical, they point to
the development of understanding of any object that appears, no
matter it is pleasant or unpleasant, kusala or akusala. We are
inclined to think about objects for a long time, how beautiful they
are, how ugly theyr are. We forget that they fall away immediately.
-----
Nina.

>
> Any suggestion or idea about why it is phrased in that way (I
> checked the pali and Nyanaponika's rendering is correct).
>
> With metta and thankfulness,
>
> Be happy :)
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Ven. Pandita,

the clause only relates your activities (i.e. submissions/sharing of content) to
Yahoo! licensing. In particular, the end of clause 9 states that:

"publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services would not include portions of
Yahoo! Groups that are limited to members"

Reading this in conjunction with the rest of the clause, when you upload your
writings ONLY in the Files section, you are NOT granting Yahoo! a "worldwide,
royalty-free and non-exclusive license".

There are other clauses covering infringement of copyright and intellectual
property (IP).

I have to say I am no legal expert on issues of licensing, copyright & IP. I
suggest you consult your publisher or a legal advisor.


metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, ashinpan wrote:

I have done so, and I am confused by the following:

"However, with respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on
publicly accessible areas of the Yahoo! Services, you grant Yahoo! the following
worldwide, royalty-free and non-exclusive license(s), as applicable:
a. With respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on
publicly accessible areas of Yahoo! Groups, the license to use, distribute,
reproduce, modify, adapt, publicly perform and publicly display such Content on
the Yahoo! Services solely for the purposes of providing and promoting the
specific Yahoo! Group to which such Content was submitted or made available. "

As far as I understand it, it is applicable to my papers uploaded here thus: any
member can cite parts of my paper in the Group discussion or make a modified
version for use in the Group only. Is it correct?

I agree with Nina that it has to do with upekkha. When there is judgement that
something is agreeable, it already means that there is also judgement of things
that are disagreeable. And vice versa. That's just the theory of course. You'd
have to see for yourself what's true in your experience.

Btw, would be good in the future that you include the reference to the sutta.

kb

behappydfgt wrote thus at 05:27 PM 12-06-12:
>Dear Dhamma friends,
>
>in Tikandaka Sutta, a discourse on the agreeable and the disagreeable (the
contemplations called as ariya iddhi).
>
>I do not understand very well why it is said, incases 3 and 4 the followinf
(Nyanaponika Thero Translation):
>
>(3) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the repulsive in the
unrepulsive as well as in the repulsive? (He should do so with the thought:)
'May no lust arise in me for lust- inducing objects, and may no hatred arise in
me towards hate-inducing objects!'
>
>(4) "And for what reason should he abide perceiving the unrepulsive in the
repulsive as well as in the unrepulsive? (He should do so with the thought:)
'May no hatred arise in me towardshate-inducing objects, and may no lust arise
in me for lust-inducing objects!'
>
>I would say, in case 3: in both cases "may ... not arise in me for hateinducing
objects".
>
>I would say in case 4, in both cases: "may ... not arise in me for
>lust inducing objetcs".
>
>
>Any suggestion or idea about why it is phrased in that way (I checked the pali
and Nyanaponika's rendering is correct).
>
>With metta and thankfulness,
>
>Be happy :)

Dear Behappy,
When I had posted my answer to you I realized that you took the text
of the Tikandakasutta from: "The roots of Good and Evil", Wheel 251-253.
PTS III, 167, Tika.n.dakiisutta.
I then checked the co. and I am still reading the tiika.
Co: < I.t.thasmiṃ vatthusmi.m pana asubhāya vā pharati, aniccato
vā upasa.mharati. Evaṃ tāva appa.tikūle pa.tikūlasaññī
viharati. Ani.t.thasmiṃ vatthusmi.m mettāya vā pharati, dhātuto
vā upasa.mharati. Evaṃ pa.tikūle appa.tikūlasaññī viharati.>
He pervades pleasant objects with the impure or applies these with
impermanence. He pervades unpleasant objects with mettaa or sees them
as elements. Thus he abides seeing the unrepulsive in the repulsive.

N: When we meet an unpleasant person who insults us we can forgive
him and have mettaa instead of aversion, or we can understand that
whatever we see or hear are only conditioned elements.
-------
The co then states that the third and fourth round are according to
the first and last method (mentioned before). The fifth way is the
sixfold upekkhaa.
N:  This is evenmindedness, tatramajjhattataa, a sobhana cetasika.
Sixfold: with regard to the objects experienced through the senses
and the mind-door.
Text: < Cha.la"ngupekkhā cesā khī.nāsavassa upekkhāsadisā, na
pana khī.nāsavupekkhā.>
------
   This is not the sixfold upekkhaa of the arahat, it is similar
(sadisaa) to it.
N: Usually the sixfold upekkhaa  refers to the arahat.
The text states: with whatever object, in whatever location.
The text:
<  Iti imasmi.m sutte pañcasu .thānesu vipassanāva kathitā. Ta.m
āraddhavipassako bhikkhu kātu.m sakkoti, ~naa.naavaa paññuttaro
bahussutasama.nopi kātuṃ sakkoti. Sotāpannasakadāgāmianāgāmino
kātu.m sakkontiyeva, khī.nāsave vattabbameva natthīti.>
In this sutta in the five occasions vipassanaa only has been spoken
of. The bhikkhu who has begun vipassanaa can develop this. Even the
recluse (sama.na) who has listened much, has understanding, has a
great deal of wisdom, can develop this. The sotaapanna, sakadaagaami,
anaagami can develop this. It is not necessary to speak of the arahat.>
-------
Nina.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am guessing that there is an easy way to cross reference from Pali PTS Vinaya
to English PTS Vinaya. Can anyone tell me a simple way to cross reference. I
find something as a foot note in the pali Vinaya but then have trouble finding
it in the English Vinaya PTS. Here is an example: Vol IV pg 176 of the Pali
Vinaya PTS. at the top of the page there it is noted I. 1-2.3. That leads me to
think it is referring to Vol I of the English but that is the wrong section.
Please explain how to cross reference from Pali PTS to English PTS.

with friendliness,
Sister Dipa

Dear Sis Dīpā


The PTS Vinaya texts and translations are a bit tricky. But hopefully the
following note from the Dharmafarer website (http://dharmafarer.org) will
help. However, at the moment the server, we are informed, is down due to
power outage. So please keep on trying.

The website also 40 volumes of annotated Sutta translations and growing.

With metta,

Piya Tan


*A. VINAYA PI**é**AKA (V or Vin), “The Basket of Discipline”*

             Pali edition. “The Vinaya Pi­akaµ”, ed. Hermann Oldenberg,
London: Luzac for PTS, 1879-83, in 5 volumes. Accessible freely at
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/index.htm.

             Tr T W Rhys Davids & Herman Oldenberg: *Vinaya Texts* (V:RO),
partial tr. SBE vol 13 (1 Pā imok­kha & Mv), 1881; vol 17 (2 Mv 5-10; Cv
1-3), ; vol 20 (3 Cv 4-12), 1885. Oxford: The Clarendon Press, 1881-1885.
Repr Delhi: Motilal Banarsidass, 1965, 1982, 1984.

             Tr I B Horner: *The Book of the Discipline* (V:H), London: PTS,
1938-66, 6 vols:

1.   *the Sutta Vibha**º**ga*, monastic code (PŒ­imokkha) for monks and for
nuns, contained in the Sutta,­vibhaºga, together with a commentary on that;

2.   *the Khandhaka*, dealing with the regulation of communal life, which
is contained in the MahŒ,vagga (Mv or V:mv) and Cula,vagga (Cv or V:cv).
The MahŒvagga also contains some material on the life of the Buddha, etc;

3.         *the Pariv**Œ**ra*, which is an abstract of the whole of the
Vinaya Pi­aka, in dialogue form.

References are to volume and page number, eg Vin III 59 or V 3:59.

             Note that:

—  Vin I and II (MahŒ,vagga and Cula,vagga) are translated as The Book of
the Discipline vols IV and V.

––        Vin III, IV (Sutta,vibhaºga) are translated as The Book of the
Discipline vols I, II and III.

             Also note that the translation, when it gives the Pali page
number in the midst of the translation, gives it at the end of that page:
eg [1] means p.1 *ends* here. In all other translations, however, it
indicates where a page of the original *starts*.

             [*Study sample*: V 1:20 = V:H 4:28 f.]


On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 8:15 AM, Sister Dipa <dipaeightprecepter@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am guessing that there is an easy way to cross reference from Pali PTS
> Vinaya to English PTS Vinaya. Can anyone tell me a simple way to cross
> reference. I find something as a foot note in the pali Vinaya but then have
> trouble finding it in the English Vinaya PTS. Here is an example: Vol IV pg
> 176 of the Pali Vinaya PTS. at the top of the page there it is noted I.
> 1-2.3. That leads me to think it is referring to Vol I of the English but
> that is the wrong section. Please explain how to cross reference from Pali
> PTS to English PTS.
>
> with friendliness,
> Sister Dipa
>
>
>



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Sutta translation: http://dharmafarer.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Sister Dipa,
Op 4-jul-2012, om 2:15 heeft Sister Dipa het volgende geschreven:

> I am guessing that there is an easy way to cross reference from
> Pali PTS Vinaya to English PTS Vinaya.
>
-------
N: I found out that the PTS English Vol IV, mahaavagga, is in Pali
Vol I.
Perhaps this helps?

Nina.