Ven/Kind Sirs and Ladies



Nina, your reply is very helpful, much appreciated.



Kind Regards







  <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> Integrating Emotion and Intellect =
Intelligence




Dhammadarsa [Darsa] Bhikkhu
Buddhist Monk

Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University
Wang Noi
Ayuthaya
Thailand


  <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa


mobile:

+66850941669





<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=210453914412&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&
invite=1&lang=en> Always have my latest info

  <http://www.plaxo.com/signature?src=client_sig_212_1_card_sig&lang=en> Want
a signature like this?





From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nina
van Gorkom
Sent: Monday, 14 February 2011 4:53 PM
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Pali] NPC Excericse 26 error?



  Cut.
------
N: I looked up Warder grammar, the dative, Lesson 12.
<The fourth or dative (catutthii, sampadaana) is used to express the
purpose for which an action is done and the person to whom something
is given ("indirect object"). The dative may express the person for
whom something is done or to whom something which happens is
advantageous ("dative of advantage") It is used also with a number of
individual verbs....>
It explains that <the dative is used with the verb (k)kam meaning to
please (someone=dative) and with the same verb when it means "to
forgive" (someone=dative, something=accusative). >
N: Forgiving can also be seen as a kind of daana: you give someone
else the opportunity to live free from danger or fear, bhaya. It is
mentioned as abhaya daana. Another spiritual gift!

With respect,
Nina.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Frank,

From my experience with various Pali & Sanskrit dictionaries, "ṁ" and "ṃ"
are
mutually exchangeable, i.e. a matter of preference of the book author or the
publisher.

Best regards;
Peter




________________________________
From: frank <fcckuan@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, February 15, 2011 9:29:36 PM
Subject: [Pali] pali alphabetical order



I found a piece of perl code for sorting unicode utf-8 format text. I
adapted it slightly for pali unicode.
I ran it on Ven. BKh's list, and it seems to be working as intended, but
I have a couple of questions.

I used the pali alphabetical order from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali
The Pali alphabetical order is as follows:

* a ā i ī u ū e o ṁ k kh g gh ṅ c ch j jh ñ ṭ ṭh ḍ ḍh ṇ t th d
dh n p ph
b bh m y r l ḷ v s h

1) I'm puzzled by "ṁ". Is that the same as "ṃ"?
2) For the code that does the alphabetizing, I removed all the pali
alphabet characters represented by double characters ending in "h". That
is I removed kh, gh, jh, etc. Since single "h" comes at the end of the
list, I believe things should sort correctly just by comparing one
character at a time.

-Frank







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Stephen & Pali Group members,

Here is my OCR transcript of your scan files. I arranged everything in such a
way that the Japanese text strings can easily be replaced with text strings in
English or another language.

Please re-check and let me know if there are still conversion errors or typos (I
guess there are). Thanks.

Best regards,
Peter




________________________________
From: Peter Hauer <linguasoft@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 10:50:18 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings


Thanks, Stephen, let me have your original 300dpi version and I'll return you an

e-text version including the Japanese text within a day or so.

Best,
Peter

________________________________
From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:53:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings

Dear Peter,

My originals are completely legible (300dpi) so the loss of resolution must
be a by-product of Yahoo,

I'll send you a set off-list.

Best wishes,
Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings

> Dear All,
>
> I tried to download these scan images but the resolution (72dpi) is so low
> that
> the text can hardly be read by a human eye and even less by OCR software.
> I'd
> volunteer to render the Pali-Japanese text into normal e-text (i.e., a DOC
> or
> RTF file) if someone could come up with good-quality (300dpi) scan images.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 12:54:08 AM
> Subject: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
>
> Dear Frank,
>
> according to our archived discussion* back in August 2004, those scans are
> now
> sitting in the Photos section. Access is only available by Yahoo! login:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos
>
> metta,
> Yong Peng.
>
> * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/5167
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank wrote:
>
> Please let us know if you find anything. I looked through the file
> archives this
> morning for Stephen's scan, no luck.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

__________________________________________________________
Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Friends,
I'm wondering if anyone has complied an eratta sheet (list of errors) for Gair
and Karunatilaka's New Course in Reading Pali. I don't find anything in the
group folder of that name.

Best wishes,
BKh

Hi Peter,
     Was the OCR able to get readable output from stephen's 300dpi files?

-Frank

On 2/14/2011 1:50 PM, Peter Hauer wrote:
>
> Thanks, Stephen, let me have your original 300dpi version and I'll
> return you an
> e-text version including the Japanese text within a day or so.
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...
> <mailto:s.hodge%40padmacholing.plus.com>>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:53:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> My originals are completely legible (300dpi) so the loss of resolution
> must
> be a by-product of Yahoo,
>
> I'll send you a set off-list.
>
> Best wishes,
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@... <mailto:linguasoft%40yahoo.com>>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I tried to download these scan images but the resolution (72dpi) is
> so low
> > that
> > the text can hardly be read by a human eye and even less by OCR
> software.
> > I'd
> > volunteer to render the Pali-Japanese text into normal e-text (i.e.,
> a DOC
> > or
> > RTF file) if someone could come up with good-quality (300dpi) scan
> images.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@... <mailto:palismith%40gmail.com>>
> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 12:54:08 AM
> > Subject: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
> >
> >
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > according to our archived discussion* back in August 2004, those
> scans are
> > now
> > sitting in the Photos section. Access is only available by Yahoo! login:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos
> >
> > metta,
> > Yong Peng.
> >
> > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/5167
> >
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, frank
> wrote:
> >
> > Please let us know if you find anything. I looked through the file
> > archives this
> > morning for Stephen's scan, no luck.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> > [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> > web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Friends, there is this fascinating and intriguing image of Buddha blessing an
ascetic and one Greek scholar following him around. The image in stone is one of
the treasured pieces of Taxila museum. I haven't come across any record of
Buddha teaching the Greeks ! Does someone have an idea/explanation for it..? See
the image at -
  http://lesimagesdelinde.blogspot.com/
ajatasatru@...

Dear Peter,

Thanks for your efforts ~ all received safely.

So you read Japanese too ~ useful for Buddhist studies.

Best wishes,
Stephen


----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings


> Dear Stephen & Pali Group members,
>
> Here is my OCR transcript of your scan files. I arranged everything in
> such a
> way that the Japanese text strings can easily be replaced with text
> strings in
> English or another language.
>
> Please re-check and let me know if there are still conversion errors or
> typos (I
> guess there are). Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter Hauer <linguasoft@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 10:50:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
>
> Thanks, Stephen, let me have your original 300dpi version and I'll return
> you an
>
> e-text version including the Japanese text within a day or so.
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:53:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> My originals are completely legible (300dpi) so the loss of resolution
> must
> be a by-product of Yahoo,
>
> I'll send you a set off-list.
>
> Best wishes,
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I tried to download these scan images but the resolution (72dpi) is so
>> low
>> that
>> the text can hardly be read by a human eye and even less by OCR software.
>> I'd
>> volunteer to render the Pali-Japanese text into normal e-text (i.e., a
>> DOC
>> or
>> RTF file) if someone could come up with good-quality (300dpi) scan
>> images.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...>
>> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 12:54:08 AM
>> Subject: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>>
>>
>> Dear Frank,
>>
>> according to our archived discussion* back in August 2004, those scans
>> are
>> now
>> sitting in the Photos section. Access is only available by Yahoo! login:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos
>>
>> metta,
>> Yong Peng.
>>
>> * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/5167
>>
>> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank wrote:
>>
>> Please let us know if you find anything. I looked through the file
>> archives this
>> morning for Stephen's scan, no luck.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
>> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
>> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
>> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
>> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
>> web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Dear Friends,

In the Gha.tiikaara sutta, the brahmin student
Jotipaal replies to Ghaṭ.tiikaara’s suggestion of visiting the Buddha
Kassapa with

 kiṃ pana tena mu.n.dakena samaṇakena diṭṭhenaa'ti?
 (“What is the use of seeing that bald-pated recluse?”).

The commentary states

mu.n.dakena sama.nakenaa ti mu.n.da.m mu.n.doti, sama.na.m vaa sama.noti vattu.m
va.t.tati, aya.m pana aparipakka~naa.nattaa braahma.nakule
uggahitavohaaravaseneva hii.lento evamaaha. (3.280)

which I tentatively translate as

mu.n.dakena sama.makena: It is proper to call a shaved person a "mu.n.do" or an
ascetic a "sama.no" - because of using these terms, this person [i. e. Jotipaal]
spoke thus, looking down upon [those] whose knowledge is not developed in
respect of a brahmanic family.

I find the commentary a bit confusing and the grammar awkward (unless of course
I am misreading it which is very possible) but it appears that the commentator
is explaining why Jotipaal (who is a brahmin) is calling the Buddha Kassapa
these names (mu.n.da and sama.na).

Is the form aparipakka~naa.nattaa in the ablative?
(Skt.aparipakvaj~naanatvaat?). Is braahma.nakule in the locative or could this
be acccus. plural (object of hii.lento)?

I would appreciate anyone's comments as to the meaning,

Thanks, Bryan






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Some of the Greeks soldiers of Alexander remained in NW India and Gandhara, as
well as in some parts of what is now northern Himachal Pradesh, Chamba, northern
Pakistan and Afghanistan. Some converted to Buddhism. The first pictorial
representation of the Buddha is due to Greek artists. On the other hand one can
find in several Greek and Roman philosophies (stoïcism, epicurism, cynicism)
features or themes that could link them to Buddhism, and other Indian schools of
thinking.

--- On Fri, 2/18/11, ajatasatru@... <eeshomasheekha@...> wrote:

From: ajatasatru@... <eeshomasheekha@...>
Subject: [Pali] Buddha and the Greeks
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, February 18, 2011, 8:43 AM
















 









       Friends, there is this fascinating and intriguing image of Buddha blessing
an ascetic and one Greek scholar following him around. The image in stone is one
of the treasured pieces of Taxila museum. I haven't come across any record of
Buddha teaching the Greeks ! Does someone have an idea/explanation for it..? See
the image at -

  http://lesimagesdelinde.blogspot.com/

ajatasatru@...






























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bryan,

You wrote:
<< The commentary states

mu.n.dakena sama.nakenaa ti mu.n.da.m mu.n.doti, sama.na.m vaa sama.noti
vattu.m va.t.tati, aya.m pana aparipakka~naa.nattaa braahma.nakule
uggahitavohaaravaseneva hii.lento evamaaha. (3.280)

which I tentatively translate as

mu.n.dakena sama.makena: It is proper to call a shaved person a "mu.n.do" or
an ascetic a "sama.no" - because of using these terms, this person [i. e.
Jotipaal] spoke thus, looking down upon [those] whose knowledge is not
developed in respect of a brahmanic family.

I find the commentary a bit confusing and the grammar awkward (unless of
course I am misreading it which is very possible) but it appears that the
commentator is explaining why Jotipaal (who is a brahmin) is calling the
Buddha Kassapa these names (mu.n.da and sama.na).

Is the form aparipakka~naa.nattaa in the ablative?
(Skt.aparipakvaj~naanatvaat?). >>

Yes.

<< Is braahma.nakule in the locative or could this be acccus. plural (object
of hii.lento)? >>

Locative singular.

This is how I would translate: "aya.m pana aparipakka~naa.nattaa
braahma.nakule uggahitavohaaravaseneva hii.lento evamaaha."

But he (Jotipaala), from there being an opposite understanding through the
influsence of terms acquired in a Brahmin family, looking down, spoke thus.

By using the diminutive suffix 'ka' after mu.n.da and sama.na he is showing
disrespect.

Best wishes,

Jim

Dear Jim,

Thanks very much for your suggestion. I think having braahma.nakule modify
ugghatavohaaravasena makes much more sense than the way I had it.

Can aparikpakka mean "opposite"?  Dictionary definition is usually
"undeveloped" or "immature".

Thanks very much for your help,

Best wishes,

Bryan

--- On Sat, 2/19/11, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...> wrote:

From: Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>
Subject: Re: [Pali] Question on commentary to Gha.tiikaara sutta  (MN 81)
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Received: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 4:02 PM
















 









       Hi Bryan,



You wrote:

<< The commentary states



mu.n.dakena sama.nakenaa ti mu.n.da.m mu.n.doti, sama.na.m vaa sama.noti

vattu.m va.t.tati, aya.m pana aparipakka~naa.nattaa braahma.nakule

uggahitavohaaravaseneva hii.lento evamaaha. (3.280)



which I tentatively translate as



mu.n.dakena sama.makena: It is proper to call a shaved person a "mu.n.do" or

an ascetic a "sama.no" - because of using these terms, this person [i. e.

Jotipaal] spoke thus, looking down upon [those] whose knowledge is not

developed in respect of a brahmanic family.



I find the commentary a bit confusing and the grammar awkward (unless of

course I am misreading it which is very possible) but it appears that the

commentator is explaining why Jotipaal (who is a brahmin) is calling the

Buddha Kassapa these names (mu.n.da and sama.na).



Is the form aparipakka~naa.nattaa in the ablative?

(Skt.aparipakvaj~naanatvaat?). >>



Yes.



<< Is braahma.nakule in the locative or could this be acccus. plural (object

of hii.lento)? >>



Locative singular.



This is how I would translate: "aya.m pana aparipakka~naa.nattaa

braahma.nakule uggahitavohaaravaseneva hii.lento evamaaha."



But he (Jotipaala), from there being an opposite understanding through the

influsence of terms acquired in a Brahmin family, looking down, spoke thus.



By using the diminutive suffix 'ka' after mu.n.da and sama.na he is showing

disrespect.



Best wishes,



Jim





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bryan,

You wrote:
<< Can aparikpakka mean "opposite"? Dictionary definition is usually
"undeveloped" or "immature". >>

Sorry, my mistake. I misintepreted the meaning of "aparipakka" by
confusing it with "pa.tipakkha". I should have checked with a dictionary.

Jim

Dear Stephen,

I'll be glad if the index turns out to be useful for members of our Group and
for other Pali learners.

As I wrote already off-list to Frank, it would be nice to find some volunteers
to replace the Japanese renderings with English, Chinese, or other languages. I
could offer my help to do the translation into German.

Which other linguistic skills do we have in our Group? Sinhala, anyone?

And yes, I read Japanese and Chinese - and my OCR software does so, too ;-)
If there's a need in the future for similar transcripts from East Asian
languages, just let me know.

Best regards,
Peter



________________________________
From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, February 18, 2011 8:39:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings


Dear Peter,

Thanks for your efforts ~ all received safely.

So you read Japanese too ~ useful for Buddhist studies.

Best wishes,
Stephen

----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@...>
To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings

> Dear Stephen & Pali Group members,
>
> Here is my OCR transcript of your scan files. I arranged everything in
> such a
> way that the Japanese text strings can easily be replaced with text
> strings in
> English or another language.
>
> Please re-check and let me know if there are still conversion errors or
> typos (I
> guess there are). Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter Hauer <linguasoft@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 10:50:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
>
> Thanks, Stephen, let me have your original 300dpi version and I'll return
> you an
>
> e-text version including the Japanese text within a day or so.
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:53:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> My originals are completely legible (300dpi) so the loss of resolution
> must
> be a by-product of Yahoo,
>
> I'll send you a set off-list.
>
> Best wishes,
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@...>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I tried to download these scan images but the resolution (72dpi) is so
>> low
>> that
>> the text can hardly be read by a human eye and even less by OCR software.
>> I'd
>> volunteer to render the Pali-Japanese text into normal e-text (i.e., a
>> DOC
>> or
>> RTF file) if someone could come up with good-quality (300dpi) scan
>> images.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...>
>> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 12:54:08 AM
>> Subject: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>>
>>
>> Dear Frank,
>>
>> according to our archived discussion* back in August 2004, those scans
>> are
>> now
>> sitting in the Photos section. Access is only available by Yahoo! login:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos
>>
>> metta,
>> Yong Peng.
>>
>> * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/5167
>>
>> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank wrote:
>>
>> Please let us know if you find anything. I looked through the file
>> archives this
>> morning for Stephen's scan, no luck.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
>> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
>> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
>> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
>> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
>> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
>> web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for the awesome conversion Peter, the unicode text file version
of those pali suffixes is very easy to read.  Was it difficult to
massage the pictures into something the OCR could recognize 3 different
languages?

I don't know Japanese, but I can fiddle around with google translate and
see if it does a serviceable job from japanese->english

-Frank

-------- Original Message --------
Subject:  Re: ocr attachment Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
Date:  Sat, 19 Feb 2011 03:15:02 -0800 (PST)
From:  Peter Hauer <linguasoft@...>
To:  frank <fcckuan@...>



Dear Frank,

Here you are. And thanks for pointing out that attachments to the Group
aren't allowed. I already wondered why there was no reaction.

It would be nice to find some volunteers to replace the Japanese
renderings with English, Chinese, or other languages. I could offer my
help to do the translation into German.

Best regards,
Peter

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* frank <fcckuan@...>
*Cc:* Peter Hauer <linguasoft@...>
*Sent:* Fri, February 18, 2011 7:18:29 PM
*Subject:* ocr attachment Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings

Dear Peter,
     I think the Pali yahoogroups email list is set up to not allow file
attachments. If you send me a copy of it offlist, I'll upload it to the
yahoo group files section. Thanks!

-Frank


On 2/16/2011 6:02 AM, Peter Hauer wrote:
>
> Dear Stephen & Pali Group members,
>
> Here is my OCR transcript of your scan files. I arranged everything in
> such a
> way that the Japanese text strings can easily be replaced with text
> strings in
> English or another language.
>
> Please re-check and let me know if there are still conversion errors
> or typos (I
> guess there are). Thanks.
>
> Best regards,
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: Peter Hauer <linguasoft@... <mailto:linguasoft%40yahoo.com>>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 10:50:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> Thanks, Stephen, let me have your original 300dpi version and I'll
> return you an
>
> e-text version including the Japanese text within a day or so.
>
> Best,
> Peter
>
> ________________________________
> From: Stephen Hodge <s.hodge@...
> <mailto:s.hodge%40padmacholing.plus.com>>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 9:53:46 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> Dear Peter,
>
> My originals are completely legible (300dpi) so the loss of resolution
> must
> be a by-product of Yahoo,
>
> I'll send you a set off-list.
>
> Best wishes,
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Hauer" <linguasoft@... <mailto:linguasoft%40yahoo.com>>
> To: <Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 12:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
>
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I tried to download these scan images but the resolution (72dpi) is
> so low
> > that
> > the text can hardly be read by a human eye and even less by OCR
> software.
> > I'd
> > volunteer to render the Pali-Japanese text into normal e-text (i.e.,
> a DOC
> > or
> > RTF file) if someone could come up with good-quality (300dpi) scan
> images.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Peter
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Ong Yong Peng <palismith@... <mailto:palismith%40gmail.com>>
> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sun, February 13, 2011 12:54:08 AM
> > Subject: [Pali] Re: Index of Pali endings
> >
> >
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > according to our archived discussion* back in August 2004, those
> scans are
> > now
> > sitting in the Photos section. Access is only available by Yahoo! login:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos
> >
> > metta,
> > Yong Peng.
> >
> > * http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/5167
> >
> > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, frank
> wrote:
> >
> > Please let us know if you find anything. I looked through the file
> > archives this
> > morning for Stephen's scan, no luck.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> > Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> > [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> > [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> > [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> > [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
> > web only.Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast
> with the Yahoo! Search weather shortcut.
> http://tools.search.yahoo.com/shortcuts/#loc_weather
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I saved out the rich format text as an html file and temporarily put a
copy here:
https://sites.google.com/site/audiotipitaka/pali-pronunciation-differences/pali-\
suffixes

If you view it with google chrome browser, install the extension of
google translate toolbar,
it will give you can option near the top of the page to translate the page.

About half the japanese will show up as english translations. Not bad.

You could configure the google translate bar to translate from japanese
to something else instead.

Sorry, but automatic translation of short Japanese text strings using Google
Translate makes practically no sense! Judging from what I could see, most
English renderings are incorrect or incomplete, or (wrongly) influenced by their
context. When you select another target language, results are even worse as
Google always translates via English which multiplies the error rate. But I
agree that automatic translation is a way to start with a genuine translation.
I'll try to prepare English and German translations of my own, and will send you
my results when I am ready.

Peter




________________________________
From: frank <fcckuan@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, February 19, 2011 3:48:33 PM
Subject: [Pali] automatic translation of foreign language for peter's pali
suffix table



I saved out the rich format text as an html file and temporarily put a
copy here:
https://sites.google.com/site/audiotipitaka/pali-pronunciation-differences/pali-\
suffixes


If you view it with google chrome browser, install the extension of
google translate toolbar,
it will give you can option near the top of the page to translate the page.

About half the japanese will show up as english translations. Not bad.

You could configure the google translate bar to translate from japanese
to something else instead.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

as always, thank you.

metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

> (a) "Thero Muulasiri.m pakkosaapesi, atha mahaajanakaayo sannipati."

N: The Elder sent for Muulasiri, and then a crowd of people assembled.

> (b) "Sac'assa gehadvaara.m gamissaami, imassa bhariyaa ma.m da.t.thu.m na
sakkhissati; yaav'assa bhatta.m aadaaya magga.m pa.tipajjati taava idh'eva
bhavissaami."

N: If I will go to the door of his house, his wife would not be able to see me;
so long as he, after having taken his meal, goes along his way, will I be just
here.

Dear Peter,
Op 20-feb-2011, om 12:55 heeft Peter Hauer het volgende geschreven:

> But I
> agree that automatic translation is a way to start with a genuine
> translation.
------
N: Another approach to the texts is also possible. Terms used in the
suttas need understanding of ultimate realities, citta, cetasika and
ruupa, and conditions. Thus, it is helpful to study the Abhidhamma
next to the suttas. If paramattha dhammas are not studied and
carefully considered, translations run the risk of being inadequate.
Instead of automatic translation, what about translation with the
understanding of paramattha dhammas the suttas are referring to?
-----
Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

We were talking about simple "out-of context" Japanese text strings that aim at
exemplifying certain Pali grammatical features or functions.
If you want to help adding additional context to our list of samples, you are
most welcome to do so!

Best regards,
Peter




________________________________
From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, February 20, 2011 4:26:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Pali] automatic translation of foreign language for peter's pali
suffix table


Dear Peter,
Op 20-feb-2011, om 12:55 heeft Peter Hauer het volgende geschreven:

> But I
> agree that automatic translation is a way to start with a genuine
> translation.
------
N: Another approach to the texts is also possible. Terms used in the
suttas need understanding of ultimate realities, citta, cetasika and
ruupa, and conditions. Thus, it is helpful to study the Abhidhamma
next to the suttas. If paramattha dhammas are not studied and
carefully considered, translations run the risk of being inadequate.
Instead of automatic translation, what about translation with the
understanding of paramattha dhammas the suttas are referring to?
-----
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm interested in the meaning of Samādhi in the last line of the quoted
paragraph from the Upanisa sutta  [SN 12.23]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yampissa taṃ, bhikkhave, khayasmiṃ khayeñāṇaṃ, tampi saupanisaṃ
vadāmi,
no anupanisaṃ. Kā ca, bhikkhave, khayeñāṇassa upanisā?
‘Vimuttī’tissa
vacanīyaṃ. Vimuttimpāhaṃ, bhikkhave, saupanisaṃ vadāmi, no
anupanisaṃ.
Kā ca, bhikkhave, vimuttiyā upanisā? ‘Virāgo’tissa vacanīyaṃ.
Virāgampāhaṃ, bhikkhave, saupanisaṃ vadāmi, no anupanisaṃ. Kā ca,
bhikkhave, virāgassa upanisā? ‘Nibbidā’tissa vacanīyaṃ.
Nibbidampāhaṃ,
bhikkhave, saupanisaṃ vadāmi, no anupanisaṃ. Kā ca, bhikkhave, nibbidāya
upanisā? ‘Yathābhūtañāṇadassanan’tissa vacanīyaṃ.
Yathābhūtañāṇadassanampāhaṃ, bhikkhave, saupanisaṃ vadāmi, no
anupanisaṃ. Kā ca, bhikkhave, yathābhūtañāṇadassanassa upanisā?
‘Samādhī’tissa vacanīyaṃ. Samādhimpāhaṃ, bhikkhave, saupanisaṃ
vadāmi,
no anupanisaṃ.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
-----
english translation of paragraph by B.Bodhi

"The knowledge of destruction with respect to destruction has a
supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge of destruction?
'Emancipation' should be the reply.

"Emancipation, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
for emancipation? 'Dispassion' should be the reply.

"Dispassion, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does not
lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition for
dispassion? 'Disenchantment' should be the reply.

"Disenchantment, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
for disenchantment? 'The knowledge and vision of things as they really
are' should be the reply.

"The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has
a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of
things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.

"Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.
---------------------------------------------------

  From the point of view of what makes sense to me in how I interpret the
Buddha's instruction in this sutta of the conditioned steps that lead to
full liberation, I would think samādhi would probably refer to  samādhi
the group (sammā samādhi  +  sammā sati + sammā vāyāmo) rather than just
the 4 jhānas (sammā samādhi), as the former is more integrated and
comprehensive. But that's just a guess. When we read suttas in the
tipitaka, how do we know which Samādhi is being referred to?

-Frank

Dhamma greetings.  Serached on the group and found no post about this dictionary
(actually it's more than a dictionary).   So i think it's good to share, maybe
someone likes to check it out.   The PCED is now in ver 1.92.   It contains  at
least 89000 items taken from 14 Pali dictionaries.  It also provides full-text
search on the Pali canon with Chinese translation.  You could search a word in
the canon (based on VRI version) or read the text & click on a word to lookup. 
More functions awaits to be explored.   It's freeware, available for download
at:

http://onlinedhamma.net/anicca/pali-course/Pali-Chinese-English%20Dictionary.htm\
l

It provides English interface.

A brief intro is available here, though in Chiense.
http://opanayika.pixnet.net/blog/post/482336

virtually with real metta,

Very Cool! I like the convenience of double clicking a word from the
sutta to instantly pull up the dictionary.
-Frank
On 2/22/2011 7:35 PM, path_traveller wrote:
>
> Dhamma greetings. Serached on the group and found no post about this
> dictionary (actually it's more than a dictionary). So i think it's
> good to share, maybe someone likes to check it out. The PCED is now in
> ver 1.92. It contains at least 89000 items taken from 14 Pali
> dictionaries. It also provides full-text search on the Pali canon with
> Chinese translation. You could search a word in the canon (based on
> VRI version) or read the text & click on a word to lookup. More
> functions awaits to be explored. It's freeware, available for download at:
>
>
http://onlinedhamma.net/anicca/pali-course/Pali-Chinese-English%20Dictionary.htm\
l
>
> It provides English interface.
>
> A brief intro is available here, though in Chiense.
> http://opanayika.pixnet.net/blog/post/482336
>
> virtually with real metta,
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Frank,
Op 23-feb-2011, om 1:19 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

> I'm interested in the meaning of Samādhi in the last line of the
> quoted
> paragraph from the Upanisa sutta [SN 12.23]...
The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has
a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of
things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.

"Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.
---------------------------------------------------

Frank: From the point of view of what makes sense to me in how I
interpret the
Buddha's instruction in this sutta of the conditioned steps that lead to
full liberation, I would think samādhi would probably refer to samādhi
the group (sammā samādhi + sammā sati + sammā vāyāmo) rather
than just
the 4 jhānas (sammā samādhi), as the former is more integrated and
comprehensive. But that's just a guess. When we read suttas in the
tipitaka, how do we know which Samādhi is being referred to?
--------
N:The commentaries help and you can also make a cross reference of
texts so that you see that in different contexts different aspects
and levels of samaadhi that have been referred to.
   There are many kinds and levels of samaadhi or ekaggata cetasika.
This cetasika arises with each citta and hence it can be kusala,
akusala, vipaaka or kiriya. It is conditioned by the citta it
accompanies. Its function is to focus on one object, the object citta
experiences.
It is one of the jhaanafactors which are developed in samatha in
order to suppress the hindrances and attain jhaana.
Samma-samadhi is one of the factors of the eightfold Path. When panna
knows, for example, the visible object which presents itself as only
a rupa appearing through the eyes or the seeing which presents itself
as only a nama which experiences visible object, there is also right
concentration at that moment: samma samadhi focuses on the object in
the right way. When samma-samadhi accompanies lokuttara citta, samma-
samadhi is also lokuttara and it focuses on nibbana. Then samma-
samadhi is a factor of the supramundane eightfold Path (lokuttara
magga).

Some people have accumulated skill and inclinations to develop jhaana
and some do not. See A II, 157, Yuganaddhasutta, for four ways of
development.
Also those who do not develop jhaana and attain enlightenment with
'dry insight' have sammaasamaadhi accompanying lokuttara citta that
has the same strength of concentration as that arising with the first
jhaana. There is absorption in nibbaana.
The Upanisa sutta ends with the attainment of arahatship. This can
only be attained by developing insight stage by stage, no matter one
also develops jhaana or not. This sutta refers to the development of
jhaana and vipassanaa.
I consulted the commentary in Thai, this is easier for me. But I
could not read all. The commentary mentions different stages of
insight and it calls these stages weak insight. Insight has to be
accumulated until it is strong. <Weak insight is the condition for
strong insight>.
As to samaadhi: this is samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation. This
samaadhi is a condition for weak insight.The disciple has to listen
to the Dhamma so that he sees the dukkha of va.t.ta, the cycle. Birth
is the condition for the dukkha of the cycle. He is harmed by the
cycle. The dukkha of the cycle is the condition of saddhaa
(confidence) in a following life. He becomes a monk and he develops
kammathaanas to begin with the earth kasina. Then arises pitti which
is weak. Then arises gladness and this is a condition for strong
pitti. This conditions calm. Calm conditions samaadhi that has jhaana
as foundation. Sukha arises with samaadhi that is appanasamaadhi
(accompanying jhaana) . Samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation is a
condition for weak vipassanaa. Vipassanaa that is weak is a condition
for strong insight and this again for magga (N: lokuttara magga).
Magga is the condiiton for phalavimutti and this again for reviewing
insight, pacchavekkha ~naa.na (arising after the lokuttara cittas and
reviewing the previous attainment, nibbaana, defilements that have
been eradicated and as demands the case, not yet eradicated).

Thus, as regards samaadhi, we have to take into account the context,
in this or that sutta.
   --------
Nina.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Frank,
some more additional info on samaadhi.
Op 23-feb-2011, om 1:19 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

> I'm interested in the meaning of Samādhi in the last line of the
> quoted
> paragraph from the Upanisa sutta [SN 12.23]...
The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has
a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of
things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.
-------
N: I wrote:
<As to samaadhi: this is samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation. This
samaadhi is a condition for weak insight.>
I looked at the summary of Ven. Bodhi of the commentary (p. 746) and
paadaka-jhaanasamaadhi should be: concentration that is the jhaana
used as basis for insight. Thus not just samaadhi that has jhaana as
foundation. This refers to someone who develops jhaana and is aware
of the jhaanafactors when he emerges from jhaana. In this way he will
not take jhaana for self.
Ven. Bodhi translates:
<Knowledge and vision of things as they really are
(yathaabhuuta~naa.nadassana) is weak insight, namely the knowledges
of the discernment of formations, of the overcoming of doubt, of
exploration, and of what is and what is not the path (see Vism ch
18-200. Revulsion (nibbidaa) is strong insight, namely, knowledge of
appearance as fearful, of contemplation of danger, of reflection, and
of equanimity about formations. Dispassion (viraaga) is the path,
which arises expunging defilements.>

   --------
Nina.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ven Sir



I appreciate your reply.



I have kept what I found most helpful below, with a couple of queries.



Kind Regards







  <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> Integrating Emotion and Intellect =
Intelligence




Dhammadarsa [Darsa] Bhikkhu
Buddhist Monk

Mahachulalongkornrajavidyalaya University
Wang Noi
Ayuthaya
Thailand


  <http://www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa> www.vicnet.net.au/~dhammadarsa


mobile:

+66850941669





<https://www.plaxo.com/add_me?u=210453914412&src=client_sig_212_1_card_join&
invite=1&lang=en> Always have my latest info

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From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
sakyaputtiyo
Sent: Thursday, 3 February 2011 1:47 PM
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Pali] Re: NPC Excericse 26 error?



It is also used in the construction with roots that has the sense of
'aarocana'; or the object to which/whom something is said takes dative case.
The subject that speaks is kattaa; what is said is kamma; the receiver is
sampadaana. E.g. dhana.m me dehi. Note that this is also a type of receptive
construction.

bhikkhuuna.m dhammaṃ deseti,

[Dhammadarsa] I�m guessing this should be dhamma.m.


bhikkhuunaṃ etadavoca.
[Dhammadarsa] I�m guessing this should be bhikkhuuna.m.


The object of 'Pati +su' also takes dative.
te bhikkhuu bhagavato paccassosu.m

The object of 'aa + su' also takes dative.
Bhikkhuu buddhassa aasu.nanti

The object of 'anu (pati) + gi' also take dative.
bhikkhu jana.m dhamma.m saaveti, jano tassa bhikkhuno anugi.naati
pa.tigi.naati (=
saadhukaara.m 'deti').

May all beings be happy and be free from troubles
bhante Sobhana

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> , Dhammadarsa
<dhammadaso@...> wrote:
>
> Ven/Kind Sirs and Ladies
>
> English to Pali #20: Buddhena devaana.m manussaana.m ca dhammo
bhaasiiyati.
>
> It seems a bit strange to me that "to gods and men" is in the dative. I
> would have taught talking/speaking/preaching to etc would require
accusative
> objects, e.g.:
>
> Buddhena deve manusse ca dhammo bhaasiiyati.
>
> That is what I have seen in the book up till this point. Could someone
> clarify please?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,
     Thanks for the thoughtful and detailed article. It does add more for
me to think about, and I'll keep those issues in mind as I encounter
"Samaadhi" in different contexts in the Paali suttas.

    On a related topic, last weekend I was reading passages where Ven.
Sariputta defined avijja in 4 aspects (what it is, what is the cause of
it, what is the cessation it, and what is the path that leads to the
cessation). He cited the asavas as the cause of avijja. So I looked up
asavas to see what the cause of asavas were, and guess what? The cause
of asavas are avijja. So the Buddha gave us a circular answer. And the
main Asava is the taint of ignorance, just for some more bonus recursion
and circularity. The only thing in that sutta specified as the way
leading to the ending of the Asavas and Aviija is the noble eightfold
path. I thought about that for quite some time, and the conclusion that
I came to is that the Buddha, as brilliant and wise as he was, would
have used language to explain in more detail if it were possible to do
so. The fact that he didn't leads me to conclude all we can do is make
sure our samaadhi is as strong as possible and directly penetrate avijja
and destruction of the asavas.

-Frank

On 2/26/2011 1:13 AM, Nina van Gorkom wrote:
>
> Dear Frank,
> Op 23-feb-2011, om 1:19 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:
>
> > I'm interested in the meaning of Samādhi in the last line of the
> > quoted
> > paragraph from the Upanisa sutta [SN 12.23]...
> The knowledge and vision of things as they really are, monks, also has
> a supporting condition, I say, it does not lack a supporting condition.
> And what is the supporting condition for the knowledge and vision of
> things as they really are? 'Concentration' should be the reply.
>
> "Concentration, monks, also has a supporting condition, I say, it does
> not lack a supporting condition. And what is the supporting condition
> for concentration? 'Happiness' should be the reply.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Frank: From the point of view of what makes sense to me in how I
> interpret the
> Buddha's instruction in this sutta of the conditioned steps that lead to
> full liberation, I would think samādhi would probably refer to samādhi
> the group (sammā samādhi + sammā sati + sammā vāyāmo) rather
> than just
> the 4 jhānas (sammā samādhi), as the former is more integrated and
> comprehensive. But that's just a guess. When we read suttas in the
> tipitaka, how do we know which Samādhi is being referred to?
> --------
> N:The commentaries help and you can also make a cross reference of
> texts so that you see that in different contexts different aspects
> and levels of samaadhi that have been referred to.
> There are many kinds and levels of samaadhi or ekaggata cetasika.
> This cetasika arises with each citta and hence it can be kusala,
> akusala, vipaaka or kiriya. It is conditioned by the citta it
> accompanies. Its function is to focus on one object, the object citta
> experiences.
> It is one of the jhaanafactors which are developed in samatha in
> order to suppress the hindrances and attain jhaana.
> Samma-samadhi is one of the factors of the eightfold Path. When panna
> knows, for example, the visible object which presents itself as only
> a rupa appearing through the eyes or the seeing which presents itself
> as only a nama which experiences visible object, there is also right
> concentration at that moment: samma samadhi focuses on the object in
> the right way. When samma-samadhi accompanies lokuttara citta, samma-
> samadhi is also lokuttara and it focuses on nibbana. Then samma-
> samadhi is a factor of the supramundane eightfold Path (lokuttara
> magga).
>
> Some people have accumulated skill and inclinations to develop jhaana
> and some do not. See A II, 157, Yuganaddhasutta, for four ways of
> development.
> Also those who do not develop jhaana and attain enlightenment with
> 'dry insight' have sammaasamaadhi accompanying lokuttara citta that
> has the same strength of concentration as that arising with the first
> jhaana. There is absorption in nibbaana.
> The Upanisa sutta ends with the attainment of arahatship. This can
> only be attained by developing insight stage by stage, no matter one
> also develops jhaana or not. This sutta refers to the development of
> jhaana and vipassanaa.
> I consulted the commentary in Thai, this is easier for me. But I
> could not read all. The commentary mentions different stages of
> insight and it calls these stages weak insight. Insight has to be
> accumulated until it is strong. <Weak insight is the condition for
> strong insight>.
> As to samaadhi: this is samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation. This
> samaadhi is a condition for weak insight.The disciple has to listen
> to the Dhamma so that he sees the dukkha of va.t.ta, the cycle. Birth
> is the condition for the dukkha of the cycle. He is harmed by the
> cycle. The dukkha of the cycle is the condition of saddhaa
> (confidence) in a following life. He becomes a monk and he develops
> kammathaanas to begin with the earth kasina. Then arises pitti which
> is weak. Then arises gladness and this is a condition for strong
> pitti. This conditions calm. Calm conditions samaadhi that has jhaana
> as foundation. Sukha arises with samaadhi that is appanasamaadhi
> (accompanying jhaana) . Samaadhi that has jhaana as foundation is a
> condition for weak vipassanaa. Vipassanaa that is weak is a condition
> for strong insight and this again for magga (N: lokuttara magga).
> Magga is the condiiton for phalavimutti and this again for reviewing
> insight, pacchavekkha ~naa.na (arising after the lokuttara cittas and
> reviewing the previous attainment, nibbaana, defilements that have
> been eradicated and as demands the case, not yet eradicated).
>
> Thus, as regards samaadhi, we have to take into account the context,
> in this or that sutta.
> --------
> Nina.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FYI

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: <jmcdan@...>
Date: 24 February 2011 12:38
Subject: [tlc] TLC-new book
To: rels-tlc@...



Forwarded from H-Buddhism.
Thanks,
justin



Dear List Members,

Please be informed of my recent publication: Buddhavacana: A Pali
Reader. You may order it directly from the publisher, Pariyatti
Publishing.

Bhikkhu Bodhi explains the scope of the Reader as follows:

``Glenn Wallis has compiled a comprehensive Pali reader intended to
enable the earnest student to move directly into reading the Pali
Nikayas. Wallis's purpose is not to explain the rules and structure of
Pali grammar. The book presupposes that the student has already
acquired an adequate grasp of the grammar?for which I recommend Lily
De Silva's A Pali Primer?and wants to learn to read the texts
themselves. Hence the format of the book is quite simple. After a
short introduction explaining his approach, Wallis presents each
section according to a fixed pattern. There is a sutta, usually fairly
short; blank pages where the student can write down their own
rendering; a word by word guide to the sutta, with brief grammatical
annotations; and at the end of the whole book, polished translations
by Wallis himself of all the suttas offered for study. Those students
who require fuller grammatical explanations may find that this
approach demands a greater intuitive capacity for understanding a
foreign language than they are endowed with. But those who have this
intuitive gift will find that by the time they complete this book,
they will be able to read virtually any sutta in the Nikayas.''


Glenn Wallis



_______________________________________________
Rels-tlc mailing list
Rels-tlc@...
https://groups.sas.upenn.edu/mailman/listinfo/rels-tlc


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Frank,
Op 26-feb-2011, om 19:51 heeft frank het volgende geschreven:

> The only thing in that sutta specified as the way
> leading to the ending of the Asavas and Aviija is the noble eightfold
> path. I thought about that for quite some time, and the conclusion
> that
> I came to is that the Buddha, as brilliant and wise as he was, would
> have used language to explain in more detail if it were possible to do
> so. The fact that he didn't leads me to conclude all we can do is make
> sure our samaadhi is as strong as possible and directly penetrate
> avijja
> and destruction of the asavas.
-------
N: You quote an interesting sutta, worth thinking it over. As you
say, the eightfold Path is the only way leading to the end of
defilements.
Only pa~n~naa, vijjaa, can eliminate avijjaa. Understanding realities
as they are can eventually lead to the destruction of the aasavas.
Some people want to try very hard to concentrate or make
concentration arise. Then there is a danger of an idea of self doing
things. We may forget that samaadhi is anattaa. If vipassanaa
pa~n~naa accompanies the kusala citta, pa~n~naa can discern the true
nature of the dhamma that appears at that moment. Samaadhi
accompanies the citta already since it arises with each citta.
Samaadhi focusses on the object experienced by citta. I think that
there is no need to 'try' to concentrate, samaadhi arises because of
its own conditions.
------
Nina.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina and friends,

36. Atha kho anaathapi.n.diko gahapati yena bhagavaa tenupasa`nkami;
upasa`nkamitvaa bhagavanta.m abhivaadetvaa ekamanta.m nisiidi. Ekamanta.m
nisinno kho anaathapi.n.diko gahapati bhagavanta.m etadavoca - "kati nu kho,
bhante, loke dakkhi.neyyaa, kattha ca daana.m daatabba"nti? "Dve kho, gahapati,
loke dakkhi.neyyaa - sekho ca asekho ca. Ime kho, gahapati, dve loke
dakkhi.neyyaa, ettha ca daana.m daatabba"nti.

Idamavoca bhagavaa. Ida.m vatvaana sugato athaapara.m etadavoca satthaa -

"Sekho asekho ca imasmi.m loke,
Aahuneyyaa yajamaanaana.m honti;
Te ujjubhuutaa kaayena, vaacaaya uda cetasaa;
Khetta.m ta.m yajamaanaana.m, ettha dinna.m mahapphala"nti.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Atha kho anaathapi.n.diko gahapati yena bhagavaa tenupasa`nkami;
and then / Anathapindika / householder / where / Blessed One / there-approached
And then, the householder Anathapindika approached there [the place] where the
Blessed One (was staying);

gahapati (m) householder.

upasa`nkamitvaa bhagavanta.m abhivaadetvaa ekamanta.m nisiidi.
having approached / Blessed One / having greeted / on one side / sat
upon arrival, (he) greeted the Blessed One and sat on one side.

abhivaadeti (v) salutes.

Ekamanta.m nisinno kho anaathapi.n.diko gahapati bhagavanta.m etadavoca -
on one side / seated / indeed / Anathapindika / householder / to Blessed One /
this-said
Seated on one side indeed, the householder Anathapindika said this to the
Blessed One -

"kati nu kho, bhante, loke dakkhi.neyyaa, kattha ca daana.m daatabba"nti?
how many indeed / venerable sir / in world / worthy of offering / where / and /
offering / should be given
"How many indeed, sir, in the world (are) worthy of offering, and where should
the offering be given?"

kati (indec) how many?
dakkhi.neyya (adj) worthy of offering.
kattha (adv) where?
daana (n) offering.
daatabba (ppot of dadaati) should be given.

"Dve kho, gahapati, loke dakkhi.neyyaa -
two / indeed / householder / in world / worthy of offering
"Two, O householder, in the world (are) indeed worthy of offering -

dvi (num) two.

sekho ca asekho ca.
disciple / and / adept / and
the disciple and the adept.

sekha (m) one who trains to be an Arahat.
asekha (m) one who does not requires further training.

Ime kho, gahapati, dve loke dakkhi.neyyaa, ettha ca daana.m daatabba"nti.
these / indeed / householder / two / in world / worthy of offering / here / and
/ offering / should be given
Indded, O householder, these (are) the two in the world worthy of offering, and
the offering should be given here."

aya.m (dem pron) this.
ettha (adv) here.

Idamavoca bhagavaa.
this-said / Blessed One
Thus spoke the Blessed One.

Ida.m vatvaana sugato athaapara.m etadavoca satthaa -
this / having spoken / Exalted One / now-other / this-said / teacher
Having thus spoken, the Exalted One, the teacher, now said this other [the
following] -

vatti (v) speaks, says.
sugata (m) the exalted one.
athaapara.m = atha apara.m
satthar (m) teacher.

"Sekho asekho ca imasmi.m loke,
disciple / adept / and / in this / in world
"In this world, the master* and the disciple,

* I have used a little poetic license here.

Aahuneyyaa yajamaanaana.m honti;
worthy of offering / to those making an offering / are
worthy of gifts [they] are to those offering alms;

aahuneyya (adj) worthy of offering, venerable.
yajamaana (ppr of yajati) making an offering.

Te ujjubhuutaa kaayena, vaacaaya uda cetasaa;
they / upright / with body / with speech / or / with mind
They are upright in body, speech and mind;

ujjubhuuta (adj) straight, upright.
vaacaa (f) speech.
uda (indec) or.
ceto (n) mind.

Khetta.m ta.m yajamaanaana.m, ettha dinna.m mahapphala"nti.
field / that / to those making an offering / now / given / great fruit
such (is) the field [of merit] to the alms-givers, great fruit (is) awarded
now."

khetta (n) field.
dinna (pp of dadaati) given.
mahapphala (n) great fruit.


metta,
Yong Peng.

Dear friends,

a quick correction. Thank you.


Khetta.m ta.m yajamaanaana.m, ettha dinna.m mahapphala"nti.
field / that / to those making an offering / here / given / great fruit
such (is) the field [of merit] to the alms-givers, great fruit (is) awarded
here."



metta,
Yong Peng.