Does one pronounce ññ (as in Dhp. 165: "n' aañño añña'm visodhaye") by
doubling the length of time used to pronounce a single consonant?  On
the other hand, .t.t. (a.t.tha, di.t.thi) requires a staccato sound,
correct?

Thanks,

Paul Allan

2006-07-01 kl. 00.35 skrev Paul Allan:

> Does one pronounce ññ (as in Dhp. 165: "n' aañño añña'm visodhaye") by
>  doubling the length of time used to pronounce a single consonant? On
>  the other hand, .t.t. (a.t.tha, di.t.thi) requires a staccato sound,
>  correct?
>
>  Thanks,
>
>
Hi,

I''m not sure what you mean by staccato, but with .t.t or other doubled
stops you get the speech organs into position (thereby stopping the air
flow in the mouth) then hesitate before releasing the sound. Like the
two t-s in: fat tank.

best regards,

/Rett

Hi Paul and Rett,

My understanding is the same as yours, Rett, that there is just a
lengthening (actually a doubling) of the length of time one lingers on
a double-consonant compared to pronouncing the same consonant singly.
  Very much like in English the difference between 'unnecessary' and
'runner' - in the former the 'n' sound is lingered over, whereas in
the latter we anglophones ignore the doubling and make it sound like a
single 'n' ('runer'!)  Similarly compare English 'hot tap' with
'hotter' - the 't' sound in the former being twice as long as it is
the latter.

Paul, I don't believe there should be a staccato effect as in the
caricature of an Italian pronouncing English: 'I turn on the hot-ta tap'.

As a personal aside:  My maternal grandfather was Italian, and
although I never knew him (he died when my mother was a child) we grew
up calling our grandmother 'nonna' which is the Italian for
'grandmother'.  As normal English speakers are wont to do, we kids
would always pronounce this like the 'n' was single, and she would
always try and correct us and pronounce it the way Italians would with
a true doubling of the 'n'.

With metta,
John
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rett <rett@...> wrote:
>
>
> 2006-07-01 kl. 00.35 skrev Paul Allan:
>
> > Does one pronounce ññ (as in Dhp. 165: "n' aañño añña'm visodhaye") by
> >  doubling the length of time used to pronounce a single consonant? On
> >  the other hand, .t.t. (a.t.tha, di.t.thi) requires a staccato sound,
> >  correct?
> >
> >  Thanks,
> >
> >
> Hi,
>
> I''m not sure what you mean by staccato, but with .t.t or other doubled
> stops you get the speech organs into position (thereby stopping the air
> flow in the mouth) then hesitate before releasing the sound. Like the
> two t-s in: fat tank.
>
> best regards,
>
> /Rett
>

Rett & John,

Thanks for your replies.  So we have:

.t.t => like "hot tap", not "hot-ta tap"
ññ => like "aañ ño", not "aañ-ñ ño"

"Aañño" sounds like Spanish "año" (year) but with double the normal time
used to say ñ.

Best wishes,

Paul




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Subject: [Pali] Digest Number 1581


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1.

Re: pronouncing ññ and .t.t <>  From: John Kelly

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Re: pronouncing ññ and .t.t


Posted by: "John Kelly" palistudent@...
<mailto:palistudent@...?Subject=
Re%3A%20pronouncing%20%80%A0%A6%F1%F1%20and%20%2Et%2Et>   palistudent
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/palistudent>


Sun Jul 2, 2006 1:35 am (PST)

Hi Paul and Rett,

My understanding is the same as yours, Rett, that there is just a
lengthening (actually a doubling) of the length of time one lingers on
a double-consonant compared to pronouncing the same consonant singly.
Very much like in English the difference between 'unnecessary' and
'runner' - in the former the 'n' sound is lingered over, whereas in
the latter we anglophones ignore the doubling and make it sound like a
single 'n' ('runer'!) Similarly compare English 'hot tap' with
'hotter' - the 't' sound in the former being twice as long as it is
the latter.

Paul, I don't believe there should be a staccato effect as in the
caricature of an Italian pronouncing English: 'I turn on the hot-ta
tap'.

As a personal aside: My maternal grandfather was Italian, and
although I never knew him (he died when my mother was a child) we grew
up calling our grandmother 'nonna' which is the Italian for
'grandmother'. As normal English speakers are wont to do, we kids
would always pronounce this like the 'n' was single, and she would
always try and correct us and pronounce it the way Italians would with
a true doubling of the 'n'.

With metta,
John
--- In Pali@yahoogroups. <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com, rett
<rett@...> wrote:
>
>
> 2006-07-01 kl. 00.35 skrev Paul Allan:
>
> > Does one pronounce ññ (as in Dhp. 165: "n' aañño añña'm visodhaye")
by
> > doubling the length of time used to pronounce a single consonant? On
> > the other hand, .t.t. (a.t.tha, di.t.thi) requires a staccato sound,
> > correct?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> Hi,
>
> I''m not sure what you mean by staccato, but with .t.t or other
doubled
> stops you get the speech organs into position (thereby stopping the
air
> flow in the mouth) then hesitate before releasing the sound. Like the
> two t-s in: fat tank.
>
> best regards,
>
> /Rett
>


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Meaning of dhamma 11.

words:
sata.m: existing, being, true (from sant).
upeti: approach, obtain.
icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed
koci: someone (pl: keci)
vattati: turn, proceed, take place.
pariccheda (m); measure, division, classification.
vatthu (n): ground, object, thing.
*****
The Saddaniti explains dhamma as nibbaana:

<"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
In the passage “And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay”, here
dhamma    means nibbaana...>

We read about dhamma as anattaa:
<Tatra yaa nissattataa, saa eva nijjiivataa.
Here what is devoid of a living being, that is indeed without a soul.>

We read about dhamma as cause:

<Yo ca hetu, so eva paccayo.
What is a cause, that is indeed a condition.>

N: The terms hetu and paccaya are often used together, for example in
the “Kindred Sayings”(IV, XXXV, § 93, Duality: yo pi hetu, yo pi
paccaya...so pi hetu, so pi paccaya.. : that condition, that relation...

The Saddaniti ends with a summary in verse:

    Icceva.m-
    Thus indeed the word dhamma occurs with reference to the following
words:

            Pariyattipaccayesu, gu.ne nissattataaya ca;
            scriptures and conditions, virtue and what is devoid of a
living being;

            sabhaave ceva pa~n~naaya.m, pu~n~ne pa~n~nattiyampi ca.
            what has its own characteristic and wisdom, merit and also
concept.
            Aapattiya.m vikaare ca, paccayuppannakepi ca;
            disciplinary offense and alteration, and also what is
conditioned;

             saccasamaadhipakati-~neyyesu yuttiyampi ca;
             truth, concentration and nature, what is to be known and
also what is
             suitable;

             visaye ceva nibbaane, dhammasaddo pavattati.
             object and nibbaana, thus the word dhamma occurs.


Keci pana dhammasaddassa pavattivisayaana.m dasadhaava pariccheda.m
vadanti.
Some teachers, however, indicate the classification of the
applications of the word dhamma as tenfold:

            Neyyamagge ca nibbaane, sabhaave atha jaatiya.m;
            What is to be known, the Path, nibbaana, what has its own
nature, and
            also birth;

            mane visayapu~n~nesu, bhaave paavacanepi ca;
            mind, object and merit, nature and also the scriptures;

            imesu dasavatthesu, dhammasaddo pavattati.
            in these ten applications the word dhamma occurs.

***********
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
>
> The Meaning of dhamma 11.
>
> words:
> sata.m: existing, being, true (from sant).
> upeti: approach, obtain.
> icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed
> koci: someone (pl: keci)
> vattati: turn, proceed, take place.
> pariccheda (m); measure, division, classification.
> vatthu (n): ground, object, thing.
> *****
> The Saddaniti explains dhamma as nibbaana:
>
> <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
> In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
> dhamma    means nibbaana...>
>
> We read about dhamma as anattaa:
> <Tatra yaa nissattataa, saa eva nijjiivataa.
> Here what is devoid of a living being, that is indeed without a
soul.>
>
> We read about dhamma as cause:
>
> <Yo ca hetu, so eva paccayo.
> What is a cause, that is indeed a condition.>
>
> N: The terms hetu and paccaya are often used together, for example
in
> the "Kindred Sayings"(IV, XXXV, § 93, Duality: yo pi hetu, yo pi
> paccaya...so pi hetu, so pi paccaya.. : that condition, that
relation...
>
> The Saddaniti ends with a summary in verse:
>
>    Icceva.m-
>    Thus indeed the word dhamma occurs with reference to the
following
> words:
>
>            Pariyattipaccayesu, gu.ne nissattataaya ca;
>            scriptures and conditions, virtue and what is devoid of
a
> living being;
>
>            sabhaave ceva pa~n~naaya.m, pu~n~ne pa~n~nattiyampi ca.
>            what has its own characteristic and wisdom, merit and
also
> concept.
>            Aapattiya.m vikaare ca, paccayuppannakepi ca;
>            disciplinary offense and alteration, and also what is
> conditioned;
>
>             saccasamaadhipakati-~neyyesu yuttiyampi ca;
>             truth, concentration and nature, what is to be known
and
> also what is
>             suitable;
>
>             visaye ceva nibbaane, dhammasaddo pavattati.
>             object and nibbaana, thus the word dhamma occurs.
>
>
> Keci pana dhammasaddassa pavattivisayaana.m dasadhaava
pariccheda.m
> vadanti.
> Some teachers, however, indicate the classification of the
> applications of the word dhamma as tenfold:
>
>            Neyyamagge ca nibbaane, sabhaave atha jaatiya.m;
>            What is to be known, the Path, nibbaana, what has its
own
> nature, and
>            also birth;
>
>            mane visayapu~n~nesu, bhaave paavacanepi ca;
>            mind, object and merit, nature and also the scriptures;
>
>            imesu dasavatthesu, dhammasaddo pavattati.
>            in these ten applications the word dhamma occurs.
>
> ***********
> Nina.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi members...

Currently, im interested in devanagari, an ancient script used for Pali.
Does anyone know how to write sabbe satta bhavantu sukkhitatta in
Devanagari?? can you send it to me? i wanna draw it and put it in my
room. 'sabbe satta bhavantu sukkhitatta' in devanagari.
Thanks..or perhaps you can send me other 'nice words' in devanagari.
thanks..

regards,
erwine

Hi Erwine,

I've put a graphic of "sabbe satta bhavantu sukhitattaa" in Devanagari
here:
http://www.fsnow.com/pali/images/sabbe-satta-bhavantu-sukhitattaa-devanagari.png

In the CSCD Tipitaka I found that exact phrase only in one place:
Suttanipata Atthakatha para 146.


BTW, I have written a new version of the CSCD converter that supports
Latin, Devanagari and Myanmar scripts in Unicode encoding. If there is
anyone who reads either Devanagari or Myanmar script and is willing to
do some proofreading to ensure that the conversion is correct, please
contact me.

Thanks
Frank Snow
fsnow@...



--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Erwine Lee" <lie_3rwin3@...> wrote:
>
> Hi members...
>
> Currently, im interested in devanagari, an ancient script used for Pali.
> Does anyone know how to write sabbe satta bhavantu sukkhitatta in
> Devanagari?? can you send it to me? i wanna draw it and put it in my
> room. 'sabbe satta bhavantu sukkhitatta' in devanagari.
> Thanks..or perhaps you can send me other 'nice words' in devanagari.
> thanks..
>
> regards,
> erwine
>

Dear Nina and Dmytro,

thanks for the interesting discussion on 'kasi.na'. The
word 'kasi.na' as an adjective means whole or entire. However, in
this case, in meditation practice, it does not mean anything close
to a 'totality-dimension' as Ven. Thanissaro translated. 'Kasi.na'
is, in this case, the name of a meditation subject or method. And,
using this method, a meditator has the choice of one of ten objects:
earth, water, fire, etc. The idea then is to focus the mind
_entirely_ (i.e. kasi.na) on the object to achieve one-pointedness.

Therefore, considering the suggestions you have made, I would
suggest as follow:

pathaviikasi.na (n) kasina (object) of earth.
- pathavii (f) earth.
- kasi.na (n) a method of meditation.

aapokasi.na (n) kasina (object) of water. ... etc.

What do you think?

Another thing that I have been thinking about is the color 'niila'.
The PED has niila as blue-green, in Japanese, the color aoi [Çत]
has similar meaning. The same goes for the Chinese colors bi [±Ì],
cang [²Ô], and even qing [Çà], which is usually translated as green
but can also means blue or black (as in yuqing [ðöÇà]). I wonder if
there are any such resemblance in other Indoeuropean or Asian
languages.

Nina, thanks also for the other corrections and suggestions. Yahoo!
Groups has recently made some modifications such that the messages
are no longer presented and ordered in the way they were before.
The "Up Thread" function is no longer available. The messages are
now collected as 'topics', and linking all the messages would create
a large 'topic', making it messy and possibly unmanageable. Hence, I
would be starting a new 'topic' (as Y! Groups call it) for each
logical unit of the AN.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:

It actually means: all encompassing. That is why the device that is
prepared in the case of earth, is a circle of earth. Everything is
earth. We fight for it, want to have things, but in fact, they are
only earth. This leads to less clinging to sense objects, the aim of
samatha. When we translate with totality, I am not sure whether this
is generally clear to people.

I looked in Netti Pakara.na, 89: ten bases of wholeness:
kasi.naayatana. Footnote says: whole, entire. This is about what you
mean by totality.

Some texts leave kasi.na untranslated. It is to be preferred to
leave kasi.na in brackets. Or the word *device* is used. Perhaps it
depends on one's personal preference. If one uses totality, it may
not be clear that it is a specific meditation subject.

> op 14-06-2006 14:14 schreef Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko op aavuso@...:
>
> In Sutta 'kasina' does not mean a circular device. I like the
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's translation 'totality'.
>
> [4] "There are these ten totality-dimensions. Which ten? One
perceives the earth-totality above, below, all-around: non-dual,
unlimited.

Dear Yong Peng,

> However, in this case, in meditation practice, it does not mean
anything close to a 'totality-dimension' as Ven. Thanissaro translated.

"Kasi.na" in meditation practice does mean "totality", according to
the Tipitaka and Atthakatha.
See the article in PTS Margaret Cone's doctionary:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31453

> Another thing that I have been thinking about is the color 'niila'.

For the discussion of kasina colors, see the article:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31677

Metta, Dmytro

Dear Yong Peng,
What you suggest seems good to me. It keeps the wording more simple.
Nina.
Op 9-jul-2006, om 3:58 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

> 'Kasi.na'
> is, in this case, the name of a meditation subject or method. And,
> using this method, a meditator has the choice of one of ten objects:



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Dmytro,

thanks for the link to the discussion of kasina colors, it does
provide better understanding as to what the color niila is. Your
analysis of the three colors (excluding odaa.ta) coincides with my
thoughts when I was working on this passage weeks ago. I was also
thinking niila, piita, lohita might actually refer to the three
subtractive colors: cyan, yellow and magenta, for two reasons.

1. These so called subtractive colors occurred naturally in natural
dyes, the primary colors (red, green, blue) do not. And, it is quite
possible the ancient Indians may be grouping colors as such.

2. Since yellow (piita) is mentioned, and niila is 'blue-green', it is
possible that lohita may not be pure red. And your research supports
and confirms this hypothesis.

I did roughly discussed this with Florent Robert when we met a week
ago. (More on this in a later mail)

As for kasi.na, in my opinion, taking it as "totality-dimension" is
only forcibly correct. It only adds to confusion, not clarity. If we
choose to follow Cone's, I would have "total awareness of". But that
would lose the original distinction of the (Kasina) meditation
method/exercise.

metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, oselok wrote:

> However, in this case, in meditation practice, it does not mean
> anything close to a 'totality-dimension' as Ven. Thanissaro
> translated.

"Kasi.na" in meditation practice does mean "totality", according to
the Tipitaka and Atthakatha.
See the article in PTS Margaret Cone's doctionary:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31453

For the discussion of kasina colors, see the article:
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=31677

My previous reply wasn't the one I thought I'd posted to the group.
This is my second attempt. --Jim

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

> <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
> In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
> dhamma    means nibbaana...>

Dear Nina,

The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:

"Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
--Dhp-a III 123

Best wishes,
Jim

Dear Jim,
thank you very much. I shall make another corrected post of meaning
of dhamma, no 11.
I had some trouble with sata.m and thought of neutre: the truth. But
the co. says: it means santaana.m. I looked up Warder, p. 169.
gacha.m , partic. in -ant. Still, the form is rather strange: sata.m
=santaana.m
Nina.

Op 9-jul-2006, om 16:44 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:
>
> > <"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
> > In the passage "And true dhamma is not susceptible to decay", here
> > dhamma means nibbaana...>
>
> Dear Nina,
>
> The "sata.m" in "sata~nca" is not an adjective in the same case
> as "dhammo". It is a genitive plural noun form of "sant" and should
> be translated as "of the true ones". So, "true dhamma" should be "the
> dhamma of the true ones" or the "the true ones' dhamma. This is made
> clear with "santaana.m" in the commentary below on Dhp 151:
>
> "Sata~ncaati buddhaadiina.m pana santaana.m navavidho lokuttaradhammo
> ca kiñci upaghaata.m na upetiiti na jara.m upeti naama."
> --Dhp-a III 123
>
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,

I have posted this message more than 24 hours ago and it doesn't
turn up, so I guess it would have been lost in cyberspace. As such,
I am reposting it.

I am glad to meet up with Florent on June 30 in Queensland,
Australia. Florent has been sharing with us his solutions to the New
Pali Course Part 1 by Ven. Buddhadatta.

Currently, he is touring Queensland with his girlfriend. In our
meeting, I actually shared with him some of my thoughts about the
Kasina colors, as we discussed in earlier messages.

Our discussion deals primarily with practice and pali study. We
discussed about whether to move on to Warder's, or to carry on with
Buddhadatta's Part 2, upon completion of Part 1. No decision was
made.

I also shared with Florent the significance of the Pali Scope
project, an electronic multilingual Pali lexicordance. Currently,
Nina is sharing with us her study on the word Dhamma.

I have posted a photo of us at the Coffee Club in Brisbane CBD on
the group's site:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali/photos
(Click on the album "Member Meetings")

I hope group members can meet up with each other whenever and
wherever time and location permit. And if possible, share a photo
with the rest of us. ;-)

You may also find in the Photos section another album "BuddhaIndia".
I have spent some time with Google Earth and Google Maps recently.
With a bit of research, I have produced a satellite image showing
the relative position of the four most significant locations related
to the Buddha's life: Lumbini, Bodh Gaya, Sarnath and Kushinagar. On
the image you would also find exact location of Varanasi, Patna,
Lucknow and Kathmandu. The main rivers and waterways, and the
mountain ranges are also rather clear in this image. Hopefully, I
can obtain exact coordinates of the places, and update the image at
a later date. Members are welcome to share photos on places related
to Buddha's life in this album.


metta,
Yong Peng.

The Meaning of Dhamma no 11, corrected.
words:
upeti: approach, obtain.
icceva.m: iti+eva.m: thus indeed
koci: someone (pl: keci)
vattati: turn, proceed, take place.
pariccheda (m); measure, division, classification.
vatthu (n): ground, object, thing.
*****
The Saddaniti explains dhamma as nibbaana:

<"Sata~nca dhammo na jara.m upetii"ti ettha nibbaane vattati.
In the passage “And the dhamma of the true ones is not susceptible to
decay”, here dhamma means nibbaana...>

Sata.m stands for santaana.m according to the commentary on the
Dhammapada, vs. 151. ‘Of the true ones such as the Buddha’, it
states. The true persons are the enlightened ones who have realized
nibbaana. Nibbaana is the unconditioned dhamma that does not arise
and fall away, and thus it is not susceptible to decay.

We read about dhamma as anattaa:
<Tatra yaa nissattataa, saa eva nijjiivataa.
Here what is devoid of a living being, that is indeed without a soul.>

We read about dhamma as cause:

<Yo ca hetu, so eva paccayo.
What is a cause, that is indeed a condition.>

N: The terms hetu and paccaya are often used together, for example in
the “Kindred Sayings”(IV, XXXV, § 93, Duality: yo pi hetu, yo pi
paccaya...so pi hetu, so pi paccaya.. : that condition, that relation...

The Saddaniti ends with a summary in verse:

    Icceva.m-
    Thus indeed the word dhamma occurs with reference to the following
words:

            Pariyattipaccayesu, gu.ne nissattataaya ca;
            scriptures and conditions, virtue and what is devoid of a
living being;

            sabhaave ceva pa~n~naaya.m, pu~n~ne pa~n~nattiyampi ca.
            what has its own characteristic and wisdom, merit and also
concept.
            Aapattiya.m vikaare ca, paccayuppannakepi ca;
            disciplinary offense and alteration, and also what is
conditioned;

             saccasamaadhipakati-~neyyesu yuttiyampi ca;
             truth, concentration and nature, what is to be known and
also what is
             suitable;

             visaye ceva nibbaane, dhammasaddo pavattati.
             object and nibbaana, thus the word dhamma occurs.


Keci pana dhammasaddassa pavattivisayaana.m dasadhaava pariccheda.m
vadanti.
Some teachers, however, indicate the classification of the
applications of the word dhamma as tenfold:

            Neyyamagge ca nibbaane, sabhaave atha jaatiya.m;
            What is to be known, the Path, nibbaana, what has its own
nature, and
            also birth;

            mane visayapu~n~nesu, bhaave paavacanepi ca;
            mind, object and merit, nature and also the scriptures;

            imesu dasavatthesu, dhammasaddo pavattati.
            in these ten applications the word dhamma occurs.

********
Nina.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Yong Peng,
Thank you.
the link to photo did not work. I have firefox now, but it did not
accept the link.
Nina.
Op 11-jul-2006, om 10:33 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

>
>
> I have posted a photo of us at the Coffee Club in Brisbane CBD on
> the group's site:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali/photos
> (Click on the album "Member Meetings")
>
>> .
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Nina,

I also have Firefox installed, and it is working fine. If you get a
Sign-in page after clicking the link, it means that you have to log
in with your Yahoo! ID and password to access the photos. Yahoo! has
restricted files and photos to be member-only sections.

metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

the link to photo did not work. I have firefox now, but it did not
accept the link.

> I have posted a photo of us at the Coffee Club in Brisbane CBD on
> the group's site:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pali/photos
> (Click on the album "Member Meetings")

Dear Yong Peng,
I gave my password, etc. but they say: dowloading not possible.
Cookies can be in the way, but I have a new computer (Mac OS 10).
Nina.
Op 11-jul-2006, om 16:42 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:
>
>
> I also have Firefox installed, and it is working fine. If you get a
> Sign-in page after clicking the link, it means that you have to log
> in with your Yahoo! ID


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear friends,

I am glad to meet up with Florent on June 30 in Brisbane, Australia.
Florent has been sharing with us his solutions to the text The New
Pali Course Part 1 by Ven. Buddhadatta. He is currently touring
Queensland with his girlfriend, and we had a good discussion about
practice and pali study.

I had actually shared with him some of my thoughts on the Kasina
colors, as I wrote in an earlier mail. In addition, we also
discussed about whether to move on to Warder's or to stay on with
Buddhadatta's Part 2, upon completion of Part 1. No decision was
made.

I have also shared with Florent about the potential and importance
of the Pali Scope project, a multilingual Pali lexicordance.
Currently, Nina is sending the group her study on the word Dhamma.

There is a photo we took at the Coffee Club in Brisbane CBD. You may
find it at the following link:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos/
(Click the album "Member Meetings")

I hope members can meet up with each other whenever and wherever
possible to learn and share with each other. And, if possible, post
us a photo! ;-)



metta,
Yong Peng.

Dear Nina,

the photos are in jpeg format and the larger one is only 37KB big, so
there shouldn't be any problem.

I am not familiar with Internet applications on Mac, but it is
unlikely a cookie problem. Still, you can check your security settings
in FireFox. Alternatively, you can try to access the photos using the
OS X's default browser Safari.

I can also email you the photos if you send me a message offlist.

metta,
Yong Peng.


--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

I gave my password, etc. but they say: dowloading not possible.
Cookies can be in the way, but I have a new computer (Mac OS 10).

Dear Yong Peng,
yes, now I succeeded, a very nice photo.
Nina.
Op 10-jul-2006, om 10:48 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:
>
> There is a photo we took at the Coffee Club in Brisbane CBD. You may
> find it at the following link:
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos/
> (Click the album "Member Meetings")
>
>
> .
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Florent,

In the following:
> 3.Bahavo manussaa diighaahi rajjuuhi setaa dhenuyo bandhitvaa
> gambhiira.m nadi.m hari.msu.
> many / people / long / [with] ropes / white / cows / having bound /
> deep / river / carried
> Having bound the white cows with long ropes, many people carried them
> to the deep river.
I think it makes more sense to translate hari.msu as "brought" or
"led" in this case.  The vision of all those people carrying the cows
makes my head spin!

With metta,
John

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "flrobert2000" <flrobert2000@...> wrote:
>
> 1.Rattaa gaaviyo khette aahi.ndantiyo bahu.m ti.na.m khaadi.msu.
> red / cows / [in] field / wandering / much / grass / ate
> The red cows wandering in the field ate a lot of grass.
>
> 2.Uccaa kumaarii niila.m vattha.m paridahitvaa mahanta.m nagara.m
> gamissati.
> tall / girls / blue / cloth / having worn / large / city / will go
> Having worn a blue cloth, the tall girls will go to the city.
>
> 3.Bahavo manussaa diighaahi rajjuuhi setaa dhenuyo bandhitvaa
> gambhiira.m nadi.m hari.msu.
> many / people / long / [with] ropes / white / cows / having bound /
> deep / river / carried
> Having bound the white cows with long ropes, many people carried them
> to the deep river.
>
> 4.Amhaaka.m bahuuna.m bandhavaana.m puttaa dubbalaa honti.
> our / [of] many / [of] relations / sons / feeble / are
> The sons of our many relations are feeble.
>
> 5.Pa.n.ditassa purisassa saa baalaa bhaginii pakkaani phalaani
> ocinitvaa appakaana.m daarakaana.m adaasi.
> [of] wise / [of] man / she / foolish / sister / ripe / fruits / having
> collected / few / boys / gave
> Having collected ripe fruits, the foolish sister of the wise man gave
> them to a few boys.
>
> 6.Tassaa mahallikaaya itthiyaa daharo nattaa uttaane jale nahaayati.
> [of] that / old / [of] woman / young / grandson /[in] shallow / [in]
> water / takes a bath
> The young grandson of that old woman takes a bath in shallow water.
>
> 7.Tasmi.m ucce rukkhe .thito vaanaro imasmi.m niice tarumhi nisinne
> pakkhino oloketi.
> [in] that / high / [in] tree / stood / monkey / [in] this / low / [in]
> tree / seated / birds / looks at
> The monkey that stood in that high tree looks at the birds seated in
> this low tree.
>
> 8.Maalinii naarii rassena maggena khuddaka.m gaama.n gacchi.
> wearing a garland / woman / short / [through] path / small / [to]
> village / went
> The woman wearing a garland went to the small village through a short
> path.
>

I am a student of south asian languages  .I am intrested in Pali .I
want to ask some questions .Any one 'kindly 'reply me' thanks

1-What is origin of Pli language
2-Which is its birth place .
3-What was the mother tongue of Bhudda
4- What are the reasons of death of Pali
5-What is its position in this age

Dear Florent,

While these translations all look technically correct, the language in
a couple of them sound a little awkward to my native anglophone ears.
  May I suggest the following changes?

> 11.Balavantaa kaa.laa go.naa uccesu giriisu aahi.n.ditvaa bahuuni
> ti.naani khaadanti.
> powerful / black / cows / high / [on] mountains / having wandered /
> a lot of / grass / eat
> Having wandered on high mountains the powerful black cows eat a lot
> of grass.

The powerful black cows wander on the high mountains and eat a lot of
grass.


> 12.Bahunna.m baalaana.m puttaa tassaa nadiyaa gambhiire jale
> patitvaa mari.msu.
> many / [of] young ones / sons / that / [from] river / deep / [in]
> water / having fallen / died
> Having fallen in the deep water of that river the sons of the many
> foolish ones died.

Sons of many foolish people fall in that river's deep water and die.


> 13.Mama bhaataraana.m majjhimo niice pii.the nisiiditvaa aama.m
> phala.m khaadati.
> my / [of] brothers / middle-brother / low / [on] chair / having
> sat / unripe / fruit / eats
> Having sat on a low chair, the middle-brother of my brothers eats an
> unripe fruit.

Having sat on a low chair, my middle-brother eats an unripe fruit.


> 14.Maya.m suve majjhima.m vaapi.m gantvaa setaani padumaani niilaani
> uppalaani ca aaharissama.
> we / tomorrow / medium / tank / having gone / white / lotuses /
> blue / waterlilies / will bring
> Having gone to the medium tank, tomorrow we will bring white lotuses
> and blue waterlilies.

Tomorrow we will go to the medium tank and gather white lotuses and
blue waterlilies.


With metta,
John

Dear Nina, Dmytro and friends,

here is the last instalment of the vagga.

82-91. Aniccasa~n~na.m bhaveti... anattasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
mara.nasa~n~na.m bhaveti... aahaare pa.tikuulasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
sabbaloke anabhiratisa~n~na.m bhaveti... a.t.thikasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... pu.lavakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... viniilakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... vicchiddakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... uddhumaatakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... .

92-101. Buddhaanussati.m bhaveti... dhammaanussati.m bhaveti...
sa`nghaanussati.m bhaveti... siilaanussati.m bhaveti...
caagaanussati.m bhaveti... devataanussati.m bhaveti...
aanaapaanassati.m bhaveti... mara.nassati.m bhaveti...
kaayagataasati.m bhaveti... upasamaanussati.m bhaveti... .

102-111. Pa.thamajjhaanasahagata.m saddhindriya.m bhaveti...
viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti... samaadhindriya.m
bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m bhaveti...
viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti... samaadhibala.m
bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti... .

112-181. "Dutiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
tatiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe... catutthajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
mettaasahagata.m ...pe... karu.naasahagata.m ...pe...
muditaasahagata.m ...pe... upekkhaasahagata.m saddhindriya.m
bhaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti...
samaadhindriya.m bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m
bhaveti... viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti...
samaadhibala.m bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti. Aya.m vuccati,
bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro
ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'. Ko pana vaado
ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

82-91. Aniccasa~n~na.m bhaveti... anattasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
mara.nasa~n~na.m bhaveti... aahaare pa.tikuulasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
sabbaloke anabhiratisa~n~na.m bhaveti... a.t.thikasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... pu.lavakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... viniilakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... vicchiddakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... uddhumaatakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... .
discernment of impermanence / develops / discernment of non-self /
develops / awareness of death / develops / in food / awareness of
impurity / develops / in all worlds / awareness of dissatisfaction /
develops / recognition of a skeleton / develops / recognition of a
worm-infested corpse / develops / recognition of a discoloured
corpse / develops / recognition of a dismembered corpse / develops /
recognition of a bloated corpse / develops
["O monks, if a monk,] developed the discernment of impermanence
(discernment of non-self, awareness of death, awareness of impurity
in food, awareness of dissatisfaction in all worlds, recognition of
a skeleton, recognition of a worm-infested corpse, recognition of a
discoloured corpse, recognition of a dismembered corpse, recognition
of a bloated corpse), [even for the duration of a finger-snap..."]

* a.t.thikasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a skeleton.
   - a.t.thika (n) skeleton.
* pu.lavakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a worm-infested corpse.
   - pu.lavaka (n) worm-infested corpse.
* viniilakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a discoloured corpse.
   - viniilaka (n) discoloured corpse.
* vicchiddakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a dismembered corpse.
   - vicchiddaka (n) dismembered corpse.
* uddhumaatakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a bloated corpse.
   - uddhumaataka (n) bloated corpse.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

92-101. Buddhaanussati.m bhaveti... dhammaanussati.m bhaveti...
sa`nghaanussati.m bhaveti... siilaanussati.m bhaveti...
caagaanussati.m bhaveti... devataanussati.m bhaveti...
aanaapaanassati.m bhaveti... mara.nassati.m bhaveti...
kaayagataasati.m bhaveti... upasamaanussati.m bhaveti... .
recollection of (the virtues of) the Buddha / develops /
recollection of (the virtues of) the Dhamma / develops /
recollection of (the virtues of) the Sangha / develops /
recollection of (the virtues of) precepts / develops / recollection
of (the virtues of) renunciation / develops / recollection of (the
virtues of) deities / develops / mindfulness of breathing /
develops / mindfulness of death / develops / mindfulness of the
body / develops / recollection of (the virtues of) calmness /
develops
["O monks, if a monk,] developed the recollection of the virtues of
the Buddha (recollection of the virtues of the Dhamma, recollection
of the virtues of the Sangha, recollection of the virtues of
precepts, recollection of the virtues of renunciation, recollection
of the virtues of deities, mindfulness of breathing; mindfulness of
death, mindfulness of the body, recollection of the virtues of
calmness), [even for the duration of a finger-snap..."]

* buddhaanussati (f) recollection of the Buddha.
   - anussati (f) recollection.
* dhammaanussati (f) recollection of the Dhamma.
* sa`nghaanussati (f) recollection of the Sangha.
* siilaanussati (f) recollection of precepts.
   - siila (n) precept.
* caagaanussati (f) recollection of renunciation.
   - caaga (m) renunciation.
* devataanussati (f) recollection of deities.
   - devataa (f) deity.
* aanaapaanassati (f) mindfulness of breathing.
   - aanaapaana (n) in-breathing and out-breathing.
   - sati (f) mindfulness.
* mara.nassati (f) mindfulness of death.
* kaayagataasati (f) mindfulness of the body.
   - kaayagataa (adj) relating to the body.
* upasamaanussati (f) recollection of calmness.
   - upasama (m) calmness.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

102-111. Pa.thamajjhaanasahagata.m saddhindriya.m bhaveti...
viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti... samaadhindriya.m
bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m bhaveti...
viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti... samaadhibala.m
bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti... .
accompanied by first jhana / faculty of faith / develops / faculty
of energy / develops / faculty of mindfulness / develops / faculty
of concentration / develops / faculty of wisdom / develops / power
of faith / develops / power of energy / develops / power of
mindfulness / develops / power of concentration / develops / power
of wisdom / develops
["O monks, if a monk,] accompanied by the first jhana, developed the
faculty of faith (faculty of energy, faculty of mindfulness, faculty
of concentration, faculty of wisdom, power of energy, power of
mindfulness, power of concentration, power of wisdom), [even for the
duration of a finger-snap..."]

* pa.thamajjhaanasahagata (pp, adj) accompanied by first jhana.
   - sahagata (pp) accompanied by, (lit.) gone with.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

112-181. "Dutiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
tatiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe... catutthajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
mettaasahagata.m ...pe... karu.naasahagata.m ...pe...
muditaasahagata.m ...pe... upekkhaasahagata.m saddhindriya.m
bhaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti...
samaadhindriya.m bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m
bhaveti... viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti...
samaadhibala.m bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti.
accompanied by second jhana / ...and so on... / accompanied by third
jhana / ...and so on... / accompanied by fourth jhana / ...and so
on... / accompanied by loving-kindness / ...and so on... /
accompanied by compassion / ...and so on... / accompanied by
altruistic joy / ...and so on... / accompanied by equanimity /
faculty of faith / develops / faculty of energy / develops / faculty
of mindfulness / develops / faculty of concentration / develops /
faculty of wisdom / develops / power of faith / develops / power of
energy / develops / power of mindfulness / develops / power of
concentration / develops / power of wisdom / develops
["O monks, if a monk,] accompanied by the second jhana (third jhana,
fourth jhana, loving-kindness, compassion, altruistic joy,
equanimity), developed the faculty of faith (faculty of energy,
faculty of mindfulness, faculty of concentration, faculty of wisdom,
power of energy, power of mindfulness, power of concentration, power
of wisdom), [even for the duration of a finger-snap..."]

* dutiyajjhaanasahagata (adj) accompanied by second jhana.
* tatiyajjhaanasahagata (adj) accompanied by third jhana.
* catutthajjhaanasahagata (adj) accompanied by fourth jhana.
* mettaasahagata (adj) accompanied by loving-kindness.
* karu.naasahagata (adj) accompanied by compassion.
* muditaasahagata (adj) accompanied by altruistic joy.
* upekkhaasahagata (adj) accompanied by equanimity.

Aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati
satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
bhu~njati'.
such / is said / monks / monk / engaged in jhana / lives / complying
with the teachings of one's teacher / heeding advice / not in vain /
food from the people / eats
Monks, such is said - 'The monk, engaged in (the practice of) jhana
(he) lives, complying with the Buddha's teachings and heeding the
advice, (he) eats the people's almsfood not given in vain'.

Ko pana vaado ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!
what / further / speaking / whoever / that / practise
Those who practise that, what else need to be said!"



Please correct me if there is any mistake.

metta,
Yong Peng.

Dear Yong Peng,

thank you very much.

--------------

82-91. Aniccasa~n~na.m bhaveti... anattasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
mara.nasa~n~na.m bhaveti... aahaare pa.tikuulasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
sabbaloke anabhiratisa~n~na.m bhaveti... a.t.thikasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... pu.lavakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... viniilakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... vicchiddakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... uddhumaatakasa~n~na.m
bhaveti... .
["O monks, if a monk,] developed the discernment of impermanence
(discernment of non-self, awareness of death, awareness of impurity
in food, awareness of dissatisfaction in all worlds, recognition of
a skeleton,

---------

N:  sabbaloke: is singular. In the whole world. Meant is; all
conditioned dhammas, or the five khandhas.

recognition of a skeleton: perception or awareness of a skeleton: it
is a meditation subject.

----------------------------------------------------------

92-101. ... upasamaanussati.m bhaveti... .

develops recollection of the virtues of calmness), [even for the
duration of a finger-snap..."]
-----------

N: By this is meant nibbaana, and usually it is translated as peace.

I read this in the Visuddhimagga.

It sounds strange: the virtues of nibbaana.

----------------------------------------------------------


Aya.m vuccati, bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati
satthusaasanakaro ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m
bhu~njati'.
Monks, such is said - 'The monk, engaged in (the practice of) jhana
(he) lives, complying with the Buddha's teachings and heeding the
advice, (he) eats the people's almsfood not given in vain'.
------

N: aya.m: this is said, such sounds somewhat strange to me.

as to: ‘not given in vain’: we discussed this before. PTS has: he
eats it to some purpose. I see it from the monk’s side. How virtuous
is he?

The Visuddhimagga Ch I, 127,128 speaks about the use of the
requisites: <Although given by the laity, they actually belong to the
Blessed One, because it is by the Blessed One that they are
permitted. > they can be used as  master (by the arahat), as
inheritance (by ariyans who are not arahats), use as a debt which is
not allowable, and use as theft which is very wrong. That is when he
is not virtuous. It all depends on the virtues or absence of virtues
of the bhikkhu who receives them.

******

Nina.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Yong Peng,

* siilaanussati (f) recollection of precepts.
- siila (n) precept.

I think that 'precept' is a too narrow translation of this very
important word, and feel that it is better translated as 'virtuous
conduct' or 'morality' or similar.  It is by recollection of our own
virtuous conduct that we can generate great joy in the world.

With metta,
John
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Ong Yong Peng" <pali.smith@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Nina, Dmytro and friends,
>
> here is the last instalment of the vagga.
>
> 82-91. Aniccasa~n~na.m bhaveti... anattasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
> mara.nasa~n~na.m bhaveti... aahaare pa.tikuulasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
> sabbaloke anabhiratisa~n~na.m bhaveti... a.t.thikasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... pu.lavakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... viniilakasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... vicchiddakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... uddhumaatakasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... .
>
> 92-101. Buddhaanussati.m bhaveti... dhammaanussati.m bhaveti...
> sa`nghaanussati.m bhaveti... siilaanussati.m bhaveti...
> caagaanussati.m bhaveti... devataanussati.m bhaveti...
> aanaapaanassati.m bhaveti... mara.nassati.m bhaveti...
> kaayagataasati.m bhaveti... upasamaanussati.m bhaveti... .
>
> 102-111. Pa.thamajjhaanasahagata.m saddhindriya.m bhaveti...
> viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti... samaadhindriya.m
> bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m bhaveti...
> viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti... samaadhibala.m
> bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti... .
>
> 112-181. "Dutiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
> tatiyajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe... catutthajjhaanasahagata.m ...pe...
> mettaasahagata.m ...pe... karu.naasahagata.m ...pe...
> muditaasahagata.m ...pe... upekkhaasahagata.m saddhindriya.m
> bhaveti... viiriyindriya.m bhaveti... satindriya.m bhaveti...
> samaadhindriya.m bhaveti... pa~n~nindriya.m bhaveti... saddhaabala.m
> bhaveti... viiriyabala.m bhaveti... satibala.m bhaveti...
> samaadhibala.m bhaveti... pa~n~naabala.m bhaveti. Aya.m vuccati,
> bhikkhave - 'bhikkhu arittajjhaano viharati satthusaasanakaro
> ovaadapatikaro, amogha.m ra.t.thapi.n.da.m bhu~njati'. Ko pana vaado
> ye na.m bahuliikarontii"ti!
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 82-91. Aniccasa~n~na.m bhaveti... anattasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
> mara.nasa~n~na.m bhaveti... aahaare pa.tikuulasa~n~na.m bhaveti...
> sabbaloke anabhiratisa~n~na.m bhaveti... a.t.thikasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... pu.lavakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... viniilakasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... vicchiddakasa~n~na.m bhaveti... uddhumaatakasa~n~na.m
> bhaveti... .
> discernment of impermanence / develops / discernment of non-self /
> develops / awareness of death / develops / in food / awareness of
> impurity / develops / in all worlds / awareness of dissatisfaction /
> develops / recognition of a skeleton / develops / recognition of a
> worm-infested corpse / develops / recognition of a discoloured
> corpse / develops / recognition of a dismembered corpse / develops /
> recognition of a bloated corpse / develops
> ["O monks, if a monk,] developed the discernment of impermanence
> (discernment of non-self, awareness of death, awareness of impurity
> in food, awareness of dissatisfaction in all worlds, recognition of
> a skeleton, recognition of a worm-infested corpse, recognition of a
> discoloured corpse, recognition of a dismembered corpse, recognition
> of a bloated corpse), [even for the duration of a finger-snap..."]
>
> * a.t.thikasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a skeleton.
>   - a.t.thika (n) skeleton.
> * pu.lavakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a worm-infested corpse.
>   - pu.lavaka (n) worm-infested corpse.
> * viniilakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a discoloured corpse.
>   - viniilaka (n) discoloured corpse.
> * vicchiddakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a dismembered corpse.
>   - vicchiddaka (n) dismembered corpse.
> * uddhumaatakasa~n~naa (f) recognition of a bloated corpse.
>   - uddhumaataka (n) bloated corpse.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 92-101. Buddhaanussati.m bhaveti... dhammaanussati.m bhaveti...
> sa`nghaanussati.m bhaveti... siilaanussati.m bhaveti...
> caagaanussati.m bhaveti... devataanussati.m bhaveti...
> aanaapaanassati.m bhaveti... mara.nassati.m bhaveti...
> kaayagataasati.m bhaveti... upasamaanussati.m bhaveti... .
> recollection of (the virtues of) the Buddha / develops /
> recollection of (the virtues of) the Dhamma / develops /
> recollection of (the virtues of) the Sangha / develops /
> recollection of (the virtues of) precepts / develops / recollection
> of (the virtues of) renunciation / develops / recollection of (the
> virtues of) deities / develops / mindfulness of breathing /
> develops / mindfulness of death / develops / mindfulness of the
> body / develops / recollection of (the virtues of) calmness /
> develops
> ["O monks, if a monk,] developed the recollection of the virtues of
> the Buddha (recollection of the virtues of the Dhamma, recollection
> of the virtues of the Sangha, recollection of the virtues of
> precepts, recollection of the virtues of renunciation, recollection
> of the virtues of deities, mindfulness of breathing; mindfulness of
> death, mindfulness of the body, recollection of the virtues of
> calmness), [even for the duration of a finger-snap..."]
>
> * buddhaanussati (f) recollection of the Buddha.
>   - anussati (f) recollection.
> * dhammaanussati (f) recollection of the Dhamma.
> * sa`nghaanussati (f) recollection of the Sangha.
> * siilaanussati (f) recollection of precepts.
>   - siila (n) precept.
> * caagaanussati (f) recollection of renunciation.
>   - caaga (m) renunciation.
> * devataanussati (f) recollection of deities.
>   - devataa (f) deity.
> * aanaapaanassati (f) mindfulness of breathing.
>   - aanaapaana (n) in-breathing and out-breathing.
>   - sati (f) mindfulness.
> * mara.nassati (f) mindfulness of death.
> * kaayagataasati (f) mindfulness of the body.
>   - kaayagataa (adj) relating to the body.
> * upasamaanussati (f) recollection of calmness.
>   - upasama (m) calmness.
>

Hello,

> 1-What is origin of Pli language
> 2-Which is its birth place .
> 3-What was the mother tongue of Bhudda
> 4- What are the reasons of death of Pali
> 5-What is its position in this age

May I recommend you the articles:

http://www.zencomp.com/greatwisdom/ebud/ebsut059.htm
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21924

Regards, Dmytro

Hi,

please see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pali

All of your questions are answered there, except for No.3.

Modern scholarship asserts that the Buddha spoke an early form of
Magadhi, largely for the reason that much of Buddha's activities
happened within Magadha's domain of political and cultural influence.

However, I would think that the Buddha probably spoke more than one
vernaculars. I also believe the Buddha spoke Vedic too, since he
knew the Vedas, and he probably used Vedic when conversing with the
more stubborn Brahmins (who believed other languages are impure and
refused to talk in anything other than Vedic).

Mahayana Buddhists would like to think the Buddha spoke Sanskrit,
but Sanskrit is really the revival form of Vedic. Sanskrit itself
went out of use, and what remains today is Hindi. Hindi draws its
vocabulary with words from Sanskrit, and is written in Devanagari
script. It is constitutionally the national language of India, and
has the second largest number of native speakers in the world (370
million).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_sp
eakers

In India, the top three spoken languages are Hindi, Telugu and
Bengali.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Indian_languages_by_total_speake
rs

As for Sanskrit, it can still be learnt as a third language for
grades 5 to 8 in India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanskrit

Modern Magadhi/Magahi sounds very similar to Hindi, and it has about
11 million speakers in India. Theravada Buddhists used to think that
Pali is similar to or descended from Magadhi, but modern linguistic
analysis has shown it not to be the case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadhi

I hope that you understand the difficulty of question 3. Much of the
history of ancient India is still as good a myth as Ramayana. More
works in this area still need to be done. The Buddha was born a
prince of the Sakya confederation, in today's Nepal. However, Indian
influence is evident in Nepal's history, culture and religions. I
have a feeling that the Sakyan people used the language of Kosala or
one very close to it. In MN, King Pasenadi called the Buddha a
Kosalaka, and AN and Sutta Nipata both mention Kapilavatthu
belonging to Kosala. Besides, the Buddha spent most of his time in
Kosala, either in Savatthi, the capital, or in the various towns.
However, it is hard to ascertain the language of the Kosalans or
Sakyans without more research.

http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_names/ku/kosala.htm

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, rasoolpuri wrote

1-What is origin of Pli language
2-Which is its birth place .
3-What was the mother tongue of Bhudda
4- What are the reasons of death of Pali
5-What is its position in this age