Oops! Deadline past.
-----------------------------------------
Robert E. Blesse
Director, The Black Rock Press
Department of Art/224
University of Nevada, Reno
Reno, NV 89557
775.682.5630 - office
775.233.2546 - mobile
775.784-6655 - fax
blesse@...<mailto:blesse@...>
www.blackrockpress.org<http://www.blackrockpress.org/>


From: Bridget Elmer <bridgetelmer@...<mailto:bridgetelmer@...>>
Reply-To: PPLetterpress
<PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com<mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 15:09:12 -0700
To: PPLetterpress
<PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com<mailto:PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>>
Cc: "southeastguild@...<mailto:southeastguild@...>"
<southeastguild@...<mailto:southeastguild@...>>
Subject: [PPLetterpress] SEGBW Juried Exhibition - Deadline EXTENDED to November
10



Greetings from SEGBW!

We're writing with exciting news... the deadline for submissions to our SEGBW
Juried Exhibition at Asheville BookWorks has been extended to:

NOVEMBER 1, 2012

Please visit our updated blog post for details:

http://segbwnews.blogspot.com/

Please note that ALL SEGBW members are welcome to submit, regardless of region.
The same is true for ALL BookWorks Co-op members. Non-members who are book
artists living and working in the Southeast region are also welcome to submit.

We apologize for any confusion regarding eligibility and we hope that you will
take this opportunity to submit your work. Please let us know if you have any
additional questions!

All the best,

Southeast Chapter Committee
Guild of Book Workers
southeastguild@...<mailto:southeastguild@...>

Is anyone familiar with printing inks that can be used for items that will
be in contact with food? Specifically for gourmet Popsicle sticks

Thanks
RK

----- Original Message -----

From: matthew lamoureux

To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, November 05, 2012 8:18 PM

Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] USFDA approved inks for letterpress

 

Just ask your normal ink supplier for them. We used to have buy them for labels that went on food containers.

---

From: Richard Kegler <richard@...>;
To: <PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: [PPLetterpress] USFDA approved inks for letterpress
Sent: Mon, Nov 5, 2012 8:03:41 PM

Is anyone familiar with printing inks that can be used for items that will be in contact with food? Specifically for gourmet Popsicle sticks Thanks RK

Buy a MAC and be rid of your problems for good




--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Lance Williams <lwwill7999@...> wrote:
>
> (Posted this to LETPRESS yesterday from my smartphone, but I did not
> have these other addresses there, and forgot last night from my laptop
> (not the one that caused the spam issue!).
>
> Apologies to all my friends who got smothered with spam from my email
> account today.
>
> I am assuming the issue arose from my use of an old laptop a couple days
> ago.  I did not realize the security software had expired leaving me
> open to attack until I had been working for an hour or so....
>
> Apparently, the Spammer got the password to my Earthlink account,
> accessed my webmail and went to town.
>
> I have since changed my password and deleted the entire online address
> book Earthlink had created. (currently unused)
>
> Hopefully the issue is taken care of...
>
> - Lance Williams
> Williams Stationery Co.
> Camden, New York
> APA #785
>

We have recently received a number of SPAM messages. Most have been deleted
before they went public. Please DO NOT reply to these "take a look at this link"
type of messages, they invariably attempt to transfer a virus.

Yvon. Older desktop Macs are not effected but mobile devices of any manufacture
might be. Apple has its own virus protection software that is ON by default (and
can only be turned off through Terminal), but that might not be applicable in
all cases.

Gerald

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Yvon" <print14@...> wrote:
>
> Buy a MAC and be rid of your problems for good
>
>
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Lance Williams <lwwill7999@> wrote:
> >
> > (Posted this to LETPRESS yesterday from my smartphone, but I did not
> > have these other addresses there, and forgot last night from my laptop
> > (not the one that caused the spam issue!).
> >
> > Apologies to all my friends who got smothered with spam from my email
> > account today.
> >
> > I am assuming the issue arose from my use of an old laptop a couple days
> > ago.  I did not realize the security software had expired leaving me
> > open to attack until I had been working for an hour or so....
> >
> > Apparently, the Spammer got the password to my Earthlink account,
> > accessed my webmail and went to town.
> >
> > I have since changed my password and deleted the entire online address
> > book Earthlink had created. (currently unused)
> >
> > Hopefully the issue is taken care of...
> >
> > - Lance Williams
> > Williams Stationery Co.
> > Camden, New York
> > APA #785
> >
>

The Southern California Chapter of the American Printing History Association
presents an all-day exploration of printing history in Los Angeles.

Please join us on Saturday, December 8, for "Where Bohemians Gathered: Exploring
Los Angeles Printing History Along the Arroyo Seco."

During the early decades of the 20th century, scholars, artists, craftsmen,
publishers, booksellers, and collectors lived and worked near the banks of the
Arroyo Seco, creating a local culture that today seems ideal. Collocated around
publisher and editor Charles Fletcher Lummis, the neighborhood attracted
writers, printers, and bookbinders, including Clyde Browne, Idah Meacham
Strobridge, Mary Austin, Ward Ritchie, and Alice Millard. Time (and the
construction of the Pasadena Freeway) put an end to the area's bonhomie, but
these individuals and their works bestowed a lasting legacy on the book and
print culture of the Southland.

The day will begin at 9:00 a.m. at Occidental College with an opportunity to
view an exhibition on the people and events that made the Arroyo a significant
nexus of printing history. Coffee and pastries will be served. At 10:30 a.m.,
noted California historian Gary Kurutz will give a talk, "A Southland Bohemia:
Print Culture on the Arroyo Seco," that will put the exhibition and the day's
activities in context. The group will move on to the nearby house of Charles
Flecther Lummis for a box lunch and guided tour of the galleries and grounds.
We'll continue on to the Abbey San Encino, home of Clyde Browne, for an
exclusive tour of this historic and significant structure. For those interested
in driving to nearby points of interest after the Abbey tour, there will be time
to do so before sunset.

Registration is all-inclusive, covering the lecture and exhibit, the tours,
morning refreshments, a box lunch, and a letterpress-printed keepsake. For more
information or to register, please contact info@... or visit
aphasocal.org.

I also have inquiries on the cleaning procedures. I bought a Chinese plate maker
that comes with a sloppy manual. After draining all those slimy liquid, I pour
in another batch of water, then I use my hand to lightly scrub the brushes, then
I drain all the water again. The brushes are then leave to dry. I somehow have
the fear that if I leave the brushes to dry the brushes would be hardened. They
feel so soft and harmless under water, yet they feel a very little bit of
bristle when about to dry.

Perhaps it's just newbie paranoia. But shall i increase the water batches
(around 5 liter per batch) that is used to clean the brushes?
or shall I apply detergents like vinegar in hot water?


--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with Gerald, we clean out every day - it stops build up around the
machine in general which can be difficult to get rid of. We wash out the brushes
everyday too and leave them to dry. Keeps the machine healthy and good washout
for plates.
>

It sounds like you are doing it right. Not sure about how much water to put in
the bath since you didn't say the size of your machine. When cleaning, probably
at least above the brush. As it drains rub you hand across the surface of the
brush, as it drains away the tuffs will begin to straighten out. You want that.

When you put a dry brush back into the machine and fill it with water, repeat
the slight brush with your hand and the tuffs will soften.

I clean the drained bath out with Tilex once every couple of weeks or so
(depends on the time of year). That will get rid of the mildew, mold or
whatever. It just needs to be sprayed on (do not spray it on the brushes), next
day zero life is in there. It even removes dried polymer waste to some degree.

Vinegar should be used in the washout bath for cleaning the plates. A cup for an
A2 size is sufficient. It alters the chemistry of the water a bit, which helps.
Won't help with the bugs though.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, 舜 <uthmod@...> wrote:
>
> I also have inquiries on the cleaning procedures. I bought a Chinese plate
maker that comes with a sloppy manual. After draining all those slimy liquid, I
pour in another batch of water, then I use my hand to lightly scrub the brushes,
then I drain all the water again. The brushes are then leave to dry. I somehow
have the fear that if I leave the brushes to dry the brushes would be hardened.
They feel so soft and harmless under water, yet they feel a very little bit of
bristle when about to dry.
>
> Perhaps it's just newbie paranoia. But shall i increase the water batches
(around 5 liter per batch) that is used to clean the brushes?
> or shall I apply detergents like vinegar in hot water?
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Gerald, we clean out every day - it stops build up around the
machine in general which can be difficult to get rid of. We wash out the brushes
everyday too and leave them to dry. Keeps the machine healthy and good washout
for plates.
> >
>

Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left it that
way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth around the
edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.

Drain and flush out everyday and run safe or periodically go and buy chemicals
and spend the time to get this crap out of your machine.

Gerald



--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> It sounds like you are doing it right. Not sure about how much water to put in
the bath since you didn't say the size of your machine. When cleaning, probably
at least above the brush. As it drains rub you hand across the surface of the
brush, as it drains away the tuffs will begin to straighten out. You want that.
>
> When you put a dry brush back into the machine and fill it with water, repeat
the slight brush with your hand and the tuffs will soften.
>
> I clean the drained bath out with Tilex once every couple of weeks or so
(depends on the time of year). That will get rid of the mildew, mold or
whatever. It just needs to be sprayed on (do not spray it on the brushes), next
day zero life is in there. It even removes dried polymer waste to some degree.
>
> Vinegar should be used in the washout bath for cleaning the plates. A cup for
an A2 size is sufficient. It alters the chemistry of the water a bit, which
helps. Won't help with the bugs though.
>
> Gerald
> http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, 舜 <uthmod@> wrote:
> >
> > I also have inquiries on the cleaning procedures. I bought a Chinese plate
maker that comes with a sloppy manual. After draining all those slimy liquid, I
pour in another batch of water, then I use my hand to lightly scrub the brushes,
then I drain all the water again. The brushes are then leave to dry. I somehow
have the fear that if I leave the brushes to dry the brushes would be hardened.
They feel so soft and harmless under water, yet they feel a very little bit of
bristle when about to dry.
> >
> > Perhaps it's just newbie paranoia. But shall i increase the water batches
(around 5 liter per batch) that is used to clean the brushes?
> > or shall I apply detergents like vinegar in hot water?
> >
> >
> > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I agree with Gerald, we clean out every day - it stops build up around the
machine in general which can be difficult to get rid of. We wash out the brushes
everyday too and leave them to dry. Keeps the machine healthy and good washout
for plates.
> > >
> >
>

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left it
that way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth around
the edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.
>

Do you use plain water, or do you add a little vinegar?
   Several people have recommended that to me, but I was not sure if it was an
aid to processing, bath life, or cleanup. Detergent is a necessary part of
processing liquid photopolymer, not sure of its effect on sheet materal.
   These days I only make a few plates at a time, with long gaps in between, and
always drain and rinse, and my synthetic brushes have not suffered at all from
sitting clean and dry. I've already mentioned working in a shop where draining
was discouraged until absolutely necessary, and where photopolymer crystallized
on the fiber pad in that unit.
--Eric Holub, SF

Eric

A&V recommends a cup of vinegar with their A2 units. It's in the manual and it's
what tech support recommends. I think it primarily changes the Ph of the bath. A
long while back a member wrote that it helped quite a bit as he was using well
water in his unit.

I assume it also helps reduce mineral deposits as it is a well known cleaner in
this regard. I can't see that it would increase bath life in any way. Once you
have plate waste in the bath nature begins its work.

Some manufacturers recommend keeping the bath full and the brushes submerged. I
assume that is a clean bath. That won't work for me as keeping the little
critters at bay, as routine maintenance, is crucial.

Techniques for chemical processing of liguid photopolymer aren't necessarily
going to be transferable to processing water-based sheet photopolymer. Even
processing flexo sheet plates requires a different configuration of your machine
(soft water, higher bath temp. . .).

Gerald




--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
> >
> > Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left it
that way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth around
the edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.
> >
>
> Do you use plain water, or do you add a little vinegar?
>   Several people have recommended that to me, but I was not sure if it was an
aid to processing, bath life, or cleanup. Detergent is a necessary part of
processing liquid photopolymer, not sure of its effect on sheet materal.
>   These days I only make a few plates at a time, with long gaps in between,
and always drain and rinse, and my synthetic brushes have not suffered at all
from sitting clean and dry. I've already mentioned working in a shop where
draining was discouraged until absolutely necessary, and where photopolymer
crystallized on the fiber pad in that unit.
> --Eric Holub, SF
>

Just a further note on this. Vinegar isn't going to help eradicate organic
material per se, well, since it is organic. It does support, after all, the
existence of the vinegar worm. Not that you would ever find one in a bottle of
vinegar. But it does help clean out mineral deposits. I use it for cleaning the
deposits out of the water heater and the coffee pot. Since it is acidic it is
useful in that regard in the bath. It is, however, no end all. Diluted muriatic
acid would serve the same purpose, just like in swimming pools.

Gerald

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> Eric
>
> A&V recommends a cup of vinegar with their A2 units. It's in the manual and
it's what tech support recommends. I think it primarily changes the Ph of the
bath. A long while back a member wrote that it helped quite a bit as he was
using well water in his unit.
>
> I assume it also helps reduce mineral deposits as it is a well known cleaner
in this regard. I can't see that it would increase bath life in any way. Once
you have plate waste in the bath nature begins its work.
>
> Some manufacturers recommend keeping the bath full and the brushes submerged.
I assume that is a clean bath. That won't work for me as keeping the little
critters at bay, as routine maintenance, is crucial.
>
> Techniques for chemical processing of liguid photopolymer aren't necessarily
going to be transferable to processing water-based sheet photopolymer. Even
processing flexo sheet plates requires a different configuration of your machine
(soft water, higher bath temp. . .).
>
> Gerald
>
>
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left it
that way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth around
the edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.
> > >
> >
> > Do you use plain water, or do you add a little vinegar?
> >   Several people have recommended that to me, but I was not sure if it was
an aid to processing, bath life, or cleanup. Detergent is a necessary part of
processing liquid photopolymer, not sure of its effect on sheet materal.
> >   These days I only make a few plates at a time, with long gaps in between,
and always drain and rinse, and my synthetic brushes have not suffered at all
from sitting clean and dry. I've already mentioned working in a shop where
draining was discouraged until absolutely necessary, and where photopolymer
crystallized on the fiber pad in that unit.
> > --Eric Holub, SF
> >
>

Inquiring minds have been pondering what the EPA might have said about
photopolymer in the liquid waste stream. Certainly, in this part of the world,
it goes straight to the sewers and thus to sewage treatment with all the rest. I
tried looking this up once without much success...

What are the byproducts of photopolymer after it degrades?

•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=
Peter Fraterdeus
Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
Voice Mail & Text 563-223-8231

On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:39 AM, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:

> Just a further note on this. Vinegar isn't going to help eradicate organic
material per se, well, since it is organic. It does support, after all, the
existence of the vinegar worm. Not that you would ever find one in a bottle of
vinegar. But it does help clean out mineral deposits. I use it for cleaning the
deposits out of the water heater and the coffee pot. Since it is acidic it is
useful in that regard in the bath. It is, however, no end all. Diluted muriatic
acid would serve the same purpose, just like in swimming pools.
>
> Gerald
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@...> wrote:
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> A&V recommends a cup of vinegar with their A2 units. It's in the manual and
it's what tech support recommends. I think it primarily changes the Ph of the
bath. A long while back a member wrote that it helped quite a bit as he was
using well water in his unit.
>>
>> I assume it also helps reduce mineral deposits as it is a well known cleaner
in this regard. I can't see that it would increase bath life in any way. Once
you have plate waste in the bath nature begins its work.
>>
>> Some manufacturers recommend keeping the bath full and the brushes submerged.
I assume that is a clean bath. That won't work for me as keeping the little
critters at bay, as routine maintenance, is crucial.
>>
>> Techniques for chemical processing of liguid photopolymer aren't necessarily
going to be transferable to processing water-based sheet photopolymer. Even
processing flexo sheet plates requires a different configuration of your machine
(soft water, higher bath temp. . .).
>>
>> Gerald
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left it
that way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth around
the edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.
>>>
>>> Do you use plain water, or do you add a little vinegar?
>>> Several people have recommended that to me, but I was not sure if it was an
aid to processing, bath life, or cleanup. Detergent is a necessary part of
processing liquid photopolymer, not sure of its effect on sheet materal.
>>> These days I only make a few plates at a time, with long gaps in between,
and always drain and rinse, and my synthetic brushes have not suffered at all
from sitting clean and dry. I've already mentioned working in a shop where
draining was discouraged until absolutely necessary, and where photopolymer
crystallized on the fiber pad in that unit.
>>> --Eric Holub, SF
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

A hell of a lot less than the byproducts of acid etching. I may not know much,
but I'm pretty sure about this. --Scott

On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:32 AM, Peter Fraterdeus wrote:

> Inquiring minds have been pondering what the EPA might have said about
photopolymer in the liquid waste stream. Certainly, in this part of the world,
it goes straight to the sewers and thus to sewage treatment with all the rest. I
tried looking this up once without much success...
>
> What are the byproducts of photopolymer after it degrades?
>
> •=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=
> Peter Fraterdeus
> Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
> Voice Mail & Text 563-223-8231
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:

> A hell of a lot less than the byproducts of acid etching. I may not know much,
but I'm pretty sure about this. --Scott

I believe Boxcar has the MSDSs on all the plate materials they sell on their
website. As I recall, they're mildly toxic in large doses (like if you were
producing plates full time for multiple customers), but in the amounts you'd be
washing down the drain in a private shop they're functionally inert and safe.
--
Michael Hurley                  Titivilus Press
123 North Holmes St.   titiviluspress@...
Memphis, TN 38111                (901) 831-7640

Peter

I was inspected once by Federal authorities due to PCP contamination from a
company that operated in the neighborhood about twenty years earlier. They were
drilling in the parking lot and various business establishments, marking off
areas etc, and visiting all the businesses in the area. They checked out my
solvents, how they were kept, and looked at the platemaking room. The only thing
they found disturbing was this large black spot on my cement floor. It was were
I invariably spill my first cup of coffee in the morning. They looked at me,
with that sort of what expression and I explained that I kind of liked the look
of it so I left it alone. They left. I have that effect on authorities.

Photopolymer waste primarily consists of carbon molecules. Polymers are organic
in nature. It does not last long in the sewer system as it is a food source for
the wee folks down there. Same as your dodo. They do monitor waste water for
contaminants in LA. Far worse are the household cleaning chemicals flushed daily
into the system.

You can check MSD sheets of the plates that you use... Only instance that I have
ever heard it outlawed was in septic tanks in rural northern California. That
was more a concern for possible blockage than contamination. Sort of in this
regard, I have read that polymers have been flushed into old systems to coat the
insides of pipes to prevent lead contamination of the water supply.

Gerald



--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Fraterdeus <peterf@...> wrote:
>
> Inquiring minds have been pondering what the EPA might have said about
photopolymer in the liquid waste stream. Certainly, in this part of the world,
it goes straight to the sewers and thus to sewage treatment with all the rest. I
tried looking this up once without much success...
>
> What are the byproducts of photopolymer after it degrades?
>
> •=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=•=^=
> Peter Fraterdeus
> Slowprint.com / Semiotx.com
> Voice Mail & Text 563-223-8231
>
> On Nov 27, 2012, at 1:39 AM, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> > Just a further note on this. Vinegar isn't going to help eradicate organic
material per se, well, since it is organic. It does support, after all, the
existence of the vinegar worm. Not that you would ever find one in a bottle of
vinegar. But it does help clean out mineral deposits. I use it for cleaning the
deposits out of the water heater and the coffee pot. Since it is acidic it is
useful in that regard in the bath. It is, however, no end all. Diluted muriatic
acid would serve the same purpose, just like in swimming pools.
> >
> > Gerald
> >
> > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Eric
> >>
> >> A&V recommends a cup of vinegar with their A2 units. It's in the manual and
it's what tech support recommends. I think it primarily changes the Ph of the
bath. A long while back a member wrote that it helped quite a bit as he was
using well water in his unit.
> >>
> >> I assume it also helps reduce mineral deposits as it is a well known
cleaner in this regard. I can't see that it would increase bath life in any way.
Once you have plate waste in the bath nature begins its work.
> >>
> >> Some manufacturers recommend keeping the bath full and the brushes
submerged. I assume that is a clean bath. That won't work for me as keeping the
little critters at bay, as routine maintenance, is crucial.
> >>
> >> Techniques for chemical processing of liguid photopolymer aren't
necessarily going to be transferable to processing water-based sheet
photopolymer. Even processing flexo sheet plates requires a different
configuration of your machine (soft water, higher bath temp. . .).
> >>
> >> Gerald
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Eric" <Megalonyx@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald Lange" <Bieler@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Just as a test I filled the bath of my platemaker Friday night and left
it that way over the weekend. Monday morning there was white feathery growth
around the edging of the brushes and black spotting on the metallic surfaces.
> >>>
> >>> Do you use plain water, or do you add a little vinegar?
> >>> Several people have recommended that to me, but I was not sure if it was
an aid to processing, bath life, or cleanup. Detergent is a necessary part of
processing liquid photopolymer, not sure of its effect on sheet materal.
> >>> These days I only make a few plates at a time, with long gaps in between,
and always drain and rinse, and my synthetic brushes have not suffered at all
from sitting clean and dry. I've already mentioned working in a shop where
draining was discouraged until absolutely necessary, and where photopolymer
crystallized on the fiber pad in that unit.
> >>> --Eric Holub, SF
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

Peter

Interesting your pointing out the difference in plate waste. I can't recall what
Miraclon waste looks like (very old plate chemistry there) but by far the worst
that I have seen is BASF. Man, that bath water stinks. Great plates though.
Toyobo waste sorts of look like you might expect it to, dissolved photopolymer.
But yeah, it's a coater when allowed to sit. Jet plate waste looks like
dishwater to me, suds and all, probably the cleanest of all. Just don't like the
plates all that much.

The fellow that I know with the septic system in northern California drains his
(Toyobo) waste into an outside trough and lets it sit until the liquid drys out.
California sun and all that. Then, every once and a while he shovels out the
remaining material and disposes of it at the local dump.

Sounds like you have it down.

Gerald

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> been following this thread with interest but not had time to reply. We've had
a little experience with this in the UK which might be useful to somebody -
regulations are tight here about waste and chemicals.
>
> Firstly, some plates we've found can have their effluence flushed into mains
sewage in the UK, at least that's the claim. I believe the Miraclon plate is
supposed to be one such. The Toyobo plates should not be discharged into main
sewage (certainly not in the UK at least - not sure about you fella's over the
pond), the issue is the build up of sediment which causes major problems with
public sewage services. You can understand this, we all have problems with the
stuff sticking to machines and digging out the acetone for a clean up...
>
> The solution we use is filtration and we've developed a simple homemade
process that's cheap but extremely effective. Photopolymer is unstable outside
of neutral PH values (4.5-7), whether 8 and above to alkaline or 3 and below to
acidic. We empty the bath into a 30 litre tank then add a small amount of
caustic solution (sodium hydroxide - available from the hardware store -
dissolved into water, the maximum strength is 47% or it turns solid, 20% is used
for oven cleaner solutions etc but 10% is fine and relatively safe, though wear
gloves obviously) I'm afraid we just use the glug method adding the solution to
the waste tank but around 200ml.
>
> We leave the waste overnight and the next morning all the 'mud' has aggregated
to the bottom leaving a completely clear liquid above which we syphon to sewage.
The overall PH at this point is probably around that of a household washing
machine discharge. The mud we strain through a couple of layers of cotton then
squeeze out and again the water is clear just leaving the mud in the cloth which
empties easily into a refuse sack.
>
> For us here this complies with all regulations, the only time used is actually
straining the mud which takes around five minutes and occasionally  making
another can of caustic solution. I believe acid will work too, you could use
something safe like citric or descaler but we've not tried this as the caustic
route works fine.
>
> Sorry, bit of a yarn but somebody may find it useful - apologies to everybody
else for a monotonous science lesson.
>
>
> PC.
>

Hi Harold

I suspect the difference between manufacturers recommending either keeping the
bath full of water with the brush submerged or draining the bath and letting the
brush dry out actually depends upon the type of brush used in the machine(?) The
US made A&V machines I've seen use horsehair brushes, not synthetic material.
They have to dry out or the brushes are subject to rot or attack from
fungi/mildew.

Gerald

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@...> wrote:
>
> The best suggestion is to talk with your municipality's waste treatment
> center. In our case in Syracuse, particulates such as photopolymer residue
> are easily filtered mechanically at the metropolitan wastewater facility.
> Septic systems are a problem, but I've never heard of a city or town's
> wastewater facility encountering problems.
>
> As far as the bath's upkeep, at Boxcar we keep our photopolymer brushes
> covered with water at all times. We usually recommend this to our customers
> with machines as well. In the event that the machine is idle for any period
> of time, we recommend adding a 1/2 cup of bleach to the bath to
> retard...evolution.
>
> Hope that helps!
> Harold
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 5:18 PM, Michael Hurley <mephit@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Scott Rubel wrote:
> >
> > > A hell of a lot less than the byproducts of acid etching. I may not know
> > much, but I'm pretty sure about this. --Scott
> >
> > I believe Boxcar has the MSDSs on all the plate materials they sell on
> > their website. As I recall, they're mildly toxic in large doses (like if
> > you were producing plates full time for multiple customers), but in the
> > amounts you'd be washing down the drain in a private shop they're
> > functionally inert and safe.
> > --
> > Michael Hurley Titivilus Press
> > 123 North Holmes St. titiviluspress@...
> > Memphis, TN 38111 (901) 831-7640
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Boxcar Press
> 509 W. Fayette St. #135
> Syracuse, NY  13204
> www.boxcarpress.com
>

Joel

I'll be up all night here on a project so no problem. I suspect the horsehair
brushes do out last the synthetics (by a long shot from what I hear). Though
they are likely far more expensive. My original brush lasted 12 years before
total collapse (sort of a one-horse shay type of incident). I replaced the
second brush after four years, not because it needed it but I undertook a
complete reconditioning of my platemaker this past winter over the holidays and
thought a back up brush wouldn't be a bad idea. So I installed new brushes and
boxed up the other, just in case. I love my "new machine." Right on the money,
every day.

Gerald

>
> I suspect the difference between manufacturers recommending either keeping the
bath full of water with the brush submerged or draining the bath and letting the
brush dry out actually depends upon the type of brush used in the machine(?) The
US made A&V machines I've seen use horsehair brushes, not synthetic material.
They have to dry out or the brushes are subject to rot or attack from
fungi/mildew.
>
> Gerald
>
>

That is actually interesting, thanks for information, much appreciated
I use the Miraclon but also we have had a go at the Tyobo-recently been playing
around with a couple of Flint Corp/BASF plates, and even just unwrapped we can
smell their essence? in the air and after washing-must check out their data
sheet to see if there are  more volatile/hazardous? components in case we use
them a lot more--I really like that Tyobo change colour according to what stage
in the making they have reached, I don't think I am imagining that !-has anyone
else experience of Flint plates, they certainly seem to swell up easily and
quickly go to the base, cf with Miraclon which seems to be a more gradual
process:this when we use the Miraclon d73s for polymer intaglio (as well as
letterpress), so found that BASF could not hold the sensitive tones in the
surface when making plates for intaglio, yes of course polymer plates are not
really designed/ formulated for this but somehow it works, AKA "solar"
platemaking(personally I feel that name is not appropiate, better to state the
objective ie making a photopolymer intaglio plate)....
--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
>
> been following this thread with interest but not had time to reply. We've had
a little experience with this in the UK which might be useful to somebody -
regulations are tight here about waste and chemicals.
>
> Firstly, some plates we've found can have their effluence flushed into mains
sewage in the UK, at least that's the claim. I believe the Miraclon plate is
supposed to be one such. The Toyobo plates should not be discharged into main
sewage (certainly not in the UK at least - not sure about you fella's over the
pond), the issue is the build up of sediment which causes major problems with
public sewage services. You can understand this, we all have problems with the
stuff sticking to machines and digging out the acetone for a clean up...
>
> The solution we use is filtration and we've developed a simple homemade
process that's cheap but extremely effective. Photopolymer is unstable outside
of neutral PH values (4.5-7), whether 8 and above to alkaline or 3 and below to
acidic. We empty the bath into a 30 litre tank then add a small amount of
caustic solution (sodium hydroxide - available from the hardware store -
dissolved into water, the maximum strength is 47% or it turns solid, 20% is used
for oven cleaner solutions etc but 10% is fine and relatively safe, though wear
gloves obviously) I'm afraid we just use the glug method adding the solution to
the waste tank but around 200ml.
>
> We leave the waste overnight and the next morning all the 'mud' has aggregated
to the bottom leaving a completely clear liquid above which we syphon to sewage.
The overall PH at this point is probably around that of a household washing
machine discharge. The mud we strain through a couple of layers of cotton then
squeeze out and again the water is clear just leaving the mud in the cloth which
empties easily into a refuse sack.
>
> For us here this complies with all regulations, the only time used is actually
straining the mud which takes around five minutes and occasionally  making
another can of caustic solution. I believe acid will work too, you could use
something safe like citric or descaler but we've not tried this as the caustic
route works fine.
>
> Sorry, bit of a yarn but somebody may find it useful - apologies to everybody
else for a monotonous science lesson.
>
>
> PC.
>

Jonathan

There is a definite color shift between exposed and unexposed material for both
the BASF and Toyobo plates. I think it is a great aid in processing as it is
more visually revealing of possible problems. It also aids in alignment on the
base during the prepress stage. Plus, it just looks more sophisticated than that
all bland yellow of the cheaper brands.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "jonathanjeclipse" <jonathanjeclipse@...>
wrote:
>
> That is actually interesting, thanks for information, much appreciated
> I use the Miraclon but also we have had a go at the Tyobo-recently been
playing around with a couple of Flint Corp/BASF plates, and even just unwrapped
we can smell their essence? in the air and after washing-must check out their
data sheet to see if there are  more volatile/hazardous? components in case we
use them a lot more--I really like that Tyobo change colour according to what
stage in the making they have reached, I don't think I am imagining that !-has
anyone else experience of Flint plates, they certainly seem to swell up easily
and quickly go to the base, cf with Miraclon which seems to be a more gradual
process:this when we use the Miraclon d73s for polymer intaglio (as well as
letterpress), so found that BASF could not hold the sensitive tones in the
surface when making plates for intaglio, yes of course polymer plates are not
really designed/ formulated for this but somehow it works, AKA "solar"
platemaking(personally I feel that name is not appropiate, better to state the
objective ie making a photopolymer intaglio plate)....
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi guys,
> >
> >
> > been following this thread with interest but not had time to reply. We've
had a little experience with this in the UK which might be useful to somebody -
regulations are tight here about waste and chemicals.
> >
> > Firstly, some plates we've found can have their effluence flushed into mains
sewage in the UK, at least that's the claim. I believe the Miraclon plate is
supposed to be one such. The Toyobo plates should not be discharged into main
sewage (certainly not in the UK at least - not sure about you fella's over the
pond), the issue is the build up of sediment which causes major problems with
public sewage services. You can understand this, we all have problems with the
stuff sticking to machines and digging out the acetone for a clean up...
> >
> > The solution we use is filtration and we've developed a simple homemade
process that's cheap but extremely effective. Photopolymer is unstable outside
of neutral PH values (4.5-7), whether 8 and above to alkaline or 3 and below to
acidic. We empty the bath into a 30 litre tank then add a small amount of
caustic solution (sodium hydroxide - available from the hardware store -
dissolved into water, the maximum strength is 47% or it turns solid, 20% is used
for oven cleaner solutions etc but 10% is fine and relatively safe, though wear
gloves obviously) I'm afraid we just use the glug method adding the solution to
the waste tank but around 200ml.
> >
> > We leave the waste overnight and the next morning all the 'mud' has
aggregated to the bottom leaving a completely clear liquid above which we syphon
to sewage. The overall PH at this point is probably around that of a household
washing machine discharge. The mud we strain through a couple of layers of
cotton then squeeze out and again the water is clear just leaving the mud in the
cloth which empties easily into a refuse sack.
> >
> > For us here this complies with all regulations, the only time used is
actually straining the mud which takes around five minutes and occasionally
 making another can of caustic solution. I believe acid will work too, you could
use something safe like citric or descaler but we've not tried this as the
caustic route works fine.
> >
> > Sorry, bit of a yarn but somebody may find it useful - apologies to
everybody else for a monotonous science lesson.
> >
> >
> > PC.
> >
>