I tried the Fixxon's film on both an Epson (pigmented ink) and an HP with
dye-based ink. I'll admit that I didn't mess around much with settings on the
Epson, just picked some of the pre-prepared paper options, but the maximum
density I could get was about 1.75. On the HP Deskjet 7500 I managed to get film
with a denisty of 2.14. I used this film to expose a couple plates and actually
got quite good results.

I didn't do any small type, or anything with fine serifs, but had good results
with 14pt. Sans serif and illustrations from clip art. I didn't get any
background build-up on the floor of the plate and the plate washed out clean in
the normal time in the machine, so I'm prepared to say that the process could be
well used for this type of work.

If I were doing text blocks with Fine serifs, or images with lots of detail, the
resolution of this desktop printer would be insufficient, but for line
illustrations (mostly what I use photopolymer for anyway) the images should be
fine. The process certainly bears watching and maybe trial with some higher
resolution printers. The costs associated with silver based film materials and
the chemistry associated with them are bound for higher realms, and even today
there are very few maintenance technicians who know the imagesetters like they
should. The inkjet films seem to be a call to us all that a new era is
approaching.

[Only Slightly Off Topic]: I attended a seminar/tradeshow in Orlando last spring
dealing with the current state of inkjet printing for industrial applications,
and was quite surprised at the quality and speed of some of the new equipment
and inks. I just received a sheet of metal printed by inkjet at 1600x1600
resolution which was printed at 6" per second. The 12x20 sheet was printed in
just 2 seconds on the printer in full process color. The same sheet would have
taken four passes through our screen printing presses with the accompanying film
and screen making. The equipmant comes with a price tag that is three times what
our screen presses cost, but its productivity will pay for it in pretty short
order for short-run metal printing applications.

John Henry

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
>
> Gerald,
>
>
> Just got back from a long Bank Holiday weekend here in the UK - man I needed
it too.
>
> Sure - I'll sort something out, I'll have to get some proper photo's done so
the detail is clear. I'll post back when I've got something worthwhile put
together.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> pc
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com"
<PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com>
> To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2012 7:37 AM
> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
>
>
>  
> Hi Peter
>
> Any examples of your printed work?
>
> Gerald
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> >
> > Harold,
> >
> >
> > Agreed - Folex say the same. I've not had a problem with this film.
> >
> > There is also an ancilliary product, a spray that increases density and
gives a matt finish which allows air to pass easier from under the film when in
contact with the plate as the vacuum pulls down. Assuming the film has been laid
carefully this will ensure good exposure and crisp definition.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > pc
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Harold Kyle <harold@>
> > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Friday, August 24, 2012 4:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
> >
> >
> >  
> > If it's over 4.0 Dmax then it would be in the right range. We find plate
problems result from densities below 4.0 Dmax. Sometimes you can get away with
it, but it really isn't a good idea to make a plate from a film below 4.0 Dmax.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Harord
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 24, 2012 at 7:15 AM, pcpete100 <pcpete100@> wrote:
> >
> >  
> > >Sorry - somehow I deleted a load of these emails so I think I may have
missed some comments.
> > >
> > >Harold,
> > >
> > >That is the pertinent question - you didn't miss it I forgot to mention it.
> > >
> > >I can't speak for all the film products (there's a bunch of them now and
we've only used a few). The UK company Pomeroy claim their surejet product
"offers the lowest cost computer-to-film solution, ideally suited for commercial
printers, newspapers, book & magazine publishers, screen printers, flexo
printers and several other applications currently using expensive silver-based
films" and "Specialised layer for good ink acceptance ensuring higher Dmax and
at the same time ensuring Instant Drying" but they don't say what the Dmax is
though the tech sheet will no doubt - I may have seen it but can't remember.
View here http://www.pomeroy.co.uk/wide_format/inkjet_film.html
> > >
> > >We have used their product but prefer others. The Folex film I mentioned is
stated as "DmaxUV: 3.2 up to > 4 (depending on RIP settings, ink system and
measured spectral characteristics of the densitometer)" which is the point made
already - you need a RIP.
> > >
> > >pc
> > >
> > >--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Harold Kyle <harold@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Has someone mentioned what the density of this inkjet black is? I might
> > >> have missed that. Ink jet transparencies may look pretty sharp but what's
> > >> the Dmax?
> > >>
> > >> Thanks
> > >> Harold
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 11:31 PM, Gerald Lange <Bieler@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > **
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Hi Peter
> > >> >
> > >> > Just curious about this statement, "When it comes to fine detail for
> > >> > letterpress work, it's not the negatives that hold you back but the
> > >> > limitations of the plates. One can produce finer detailed accurate
> > >> > inkjet negs than one can image successfully on polymer plates."
> > >> >
> > >> > Yes, but isn't that a problem one always faced with silver-based film
> > >> > negatives? that they were better than the plate could deliver, roughly
> > >> > 5% variance as the old rule of thumb seemed to indicate. I'm seen
higher
> > >> > claims regarding computer-to-plate but am not sure.
> > >> >
> > >> > I guess I am not sure what your meaning here is.
> > >> >
> > >> > Gerald
> > >> > http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Dear All,
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > hope you guys don't mind another offering on this subject. I don't
> > >> > know if anyone here goes to the Drupa expo held in Germany each year -
> > >> > there's been huge leaps in progress in the last few years, developments
> > >> > which are transforming the lithographic industry in terms of CTP. Laser
> > >> > Â may not be hitting the mark but it's not possible to maintain
that
> > >> > assertion about inkjet technology any longer, it's evolved greatly.
> > >> > Heidelberg are re-entering the digital market - a year ago this comment
> > >> > was reported from a Heidelberg exec "Heidelberg considers that there is
> > >> > almost no quality difference between digital and offset, at least none
> > >> > that a customer might complain about". New waterless inks are helping
> > >> > some of the big 'digital' names develop inkjet 'litho presses' (not my
> > >> > terminology) for long runs on a wide variety of media. This years's
buzz
> > >> > was 'Nanography'Â within inkjet technology, boasting 11,000 sheets
per
> > >> > hourwith Landa claiming "Nanographic Printing is
> > >> >
> > >> > > characterised by ultra-sharp dots of extremely high uniformity, high
> > >> > gloss fidelity and the broadest CMYK colour gamut of any printing
> > >> > process". Inkjets that print metal litho plates are almost 'old hat' in
> > >> > terms of news-worthiness and the ability to produce high definition
film
> > >> > is well established. The ink drop size is so small and the lay down so
> > >> > controlled on high end appliances with the right software that inkjet
is
> > >> > rapidly being assimilated into litho shops. It's obviously still not
> > >> > competitive for long runs, the ink cost still the problem and speed in
> > >> > some cases but it is cost per impression that's holding it back not the
> > >> > quality -> that's the only point I make (if a slight digression to get
> > >> > there).
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It is a question at what point one enters the market and how great an
> > >> > investment to make, but the film that can be produced now is stunning
> > >> > quality. We've imaged a variety of media through high definition film
> > >> > negatives including photopolymer materials and metal litho plates and
> > >> > the output quality is consistent and indiscernible under a loupe from
> > >> > alternative processes.
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > When it comes to fine detail for letterpress work, it's not the
> > >> > negatives that hold you back but the limitations of the plates. One can
> > >> > produce finer detailed accurate inkjet negs than one can image
> > >> > successfully on polymer plates. Of course the problem is, if you're
> > >> > thinking of investing in high end inkjet technology the cost is
> > >> > prohibitive for modest purposes. If you plan to use your equipment for
a
> > >> > variety of production purposes it's not so bad and it's chemical free
> > >> > and quick.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > The limitations then are more upon small enthusiast print-shops
perhaps.
> > >> > > So I agree with Gerald on this point:-
> > >> > >
> > >> > > "I'd think that you'd have to be consuming an awful lot of film to
> > >> > justify any sort of expense beyond just buying from a service bureau or
> > >> > equivalent. And you still need a platemaker..." this is still the
> > >> > problem for most. In a few years though...
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I spoke to a colleague just recently who's at the cutting edge of
> > >> > these developments, I said I thought five years from now litho would be
> > >> > transformed, he smiled and said "quicker than that". Let's hope the
> > >> > prices come down at the same rate but even at the lower end of the
scale
> > >> > the quality is there.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > pcÂ
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ________________________________
> > >> > > From: Gerald Lange <Bieler@>
> > >> >
> > >> > > To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > > Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:00 AM
> > >> > > Subject: Re: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Â
> > >> > > Dan
> > >> > >
> > >> > > From what I have seen you are correct. The specifications of the
> > >> > > best inkjet or toner based setups that I know of just barely meet
> > >> > > minimal letterpress standards.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I assume that the fineness/detail might NOT be a significant concern
> > >> > > though for folks pursuing this as an alternative to silver based
> > >> > > film negatives.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > A problem that I see is initial and ongoing cost and the constant
> > >> > > evolution of the hardware/software. The great thing about the
> > >> > > Linotronic and other imagesetters is how stable that has made
> > >> > > digital letterpress for over two decades.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I'd think that you'd have to be consuming an awful lot of film to
> > >> > > justify any sort of expense beyond just buying from a service bureau
> > >> > > or equivalent. And you still need a platemaker. Or better yet, not
> > >> > > have one. Had not an odd set of circumstances allowed me to buy a
> > >> > > platemaker for a major project way back when I suspect I never would
> > >> > > have really had the need for one.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I started using photopolymer plates for letterpress book production
> > >> > > in the early 1990s and I can easily state that decision saved me a
> > >> > > ton money over buying metal type and photoengravings. Buying the
> > >> > > processed film and plates from someone who knew what they were doing
> > >> > > was a no-brainer.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > It is nice to have a platemaker in-house, as someone mentioned, but
> > >> > > if you can't make a better plate than you could buy elsewhere, it
> > >> > > doesn't do you a whit of good.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Gerald
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Boxcar Press
> > >> 509 W. Fayette St. #135
> > >> Syracuse, NY  13204
> > >> www.boxcarpress.com
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Boxcar Press
> > 509 W. Fayette St. #135
> > Syracuse, NY  13204
> > www.boxcarpress.com
> >
>

Peter:

I was able to expose to get a solid step 14 on the scale. I think the negative
density was good enough because there were no pinholes or voids. The ink really
was absorbed by the material and had surprisingly straight edges without a lot
of bleed adjacent to the image edge.

I did find that the image was pretty delicate. It would be important to handle
and store them carefully.

John H.

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@...> wrote:
>
> John,
>
>
> Interesting post - thanks. I do agree with previous comments though, the Dmax
should be higher and is easily achievable with the right RIP (a relatively small
investment). In Europe the big push is to get away from chemicals and I think
this is helping at least to drive changes forward.
>
>
> Did you try a Stouffer test?
>
>
> I agree, some of the machines that print litho plates are just incredible. A
Few years from now will see amazing changes I think.
>
>
> pc
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: author50401 <JohnH@...>
> To: PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:56 PM
> Subject: [PPLetterpress] Re: Inkjet negatives
>
>
>  
>
>
> I tried the Fixxon's film on both an Epson (pigmented ink) and an HP with
dye-based ink. I'll admit that I didn't mess around much with settings on the
Epson, just picked some of the pre-prepared paper options, but the maximum
density I could get was about 1.75. On the HP Deskjet 7500 I managed to get film
with a denisty of 2.14. I used this film to expose a couple plates and actually
got quite good results.
>
> I didn't do any small type, or anything with fine serifs, but had good results
with 14pt. Sans serif and illustrations from clip art. I didn't get any
background build-up on the floor of the plate and the plate washed out clean in
the normal time in the machine, so I'm prepared to say that the process could be
well used for this type of work.
>
> If I were doing text blocks with Fine serifs, or images with lots of detail,
the resolution of this desktop printer would be insufficient, but for line
illustrations (mostly what I use photopolymer for anyway) the images should be
fine. The process certainly bears watching and maybe trial with some higher
resolution printers. The costs associated with silver based film materials and
the chemistry associated with them are bound for higher realms, and even today
there are very few maintenance technicians who know the imagesetters like they
should. The inkjet films seem to be a call to us all that a new era is
approaching.
>
> [Only Slightly Off Topic]: I attended a seminar/tradeshow in Orlando last
spring dealing with the current state of inkjet printing for industrial
applications, and was quite surprised at the quality and speed of some of the
new equipment and inks. I just received a sheet of metal printed by inkjet at
1600x1600 resolution which was printed at 6" per second. The 12x20 sheet was
printed in just 2 seconds on the printer in full process color. The same sheet
would have taken four passes through our screen printing presses with the
accompanying film and screen making. The equipmant comes with a price tag that
is three times what our screen presses cost, but its productivity will pay for
it in pretty short order for short-run metal printing applications.
>
> John Henry
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Peter Bruce <pcpete100@> wrote:
> >

 TPX METRO EXPRESS Thanks for receiving the TPX Metro Express that local printers and trade shops may receive, in which we list SOME OF the equipment that printers in your region want to sell now and which advertises the TPX services offerred atwww.tpxonline.com.  
     Please visit www.tpxonline.com or call TPX at 1-800-955-1879 to: 
       1.. search the entire TPX Marketplace and our on-line auctions. Contact sellers with the best deals 
       2.. advertise your equipment for as little as $50 "until-it-sells" and also start auctions 
       3.. finds the best prices on rollers, parts, supplies and equipment listed in the TPX Shopping System 
       4.. outsource printing and other jobs using the TPX Buyers Guide 

       5.. find employees by placing help-wanted ads in the TPX Jobs Marketplace 

Hi Chad and others

Sorry to have to say but you can only post mention of items for sale if you are
the seller. Saying "I have no other information or contact with the seller"
might seemingly get you off the hook but it doesn't get Yahoo! off the hook if
the seller comes after them for harassment/privacy issues. Yahoo! will dump us
in the wink of an eye for infractions. See their guidelines at the bottom of the
group site page or the PPL guidelines in the Files section for further
information.

Gerald



--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Chad Pastotnik <chad@...> wrote:
>
> Just came across a listing from a used equipment seller here in the midwest:
>
> >  TPX METRO EXPRESS Thanks for receiving the TPX Metro Express that local
printers and trade shops may receive, in which we list SOME OF the equipment
that printers in your region want to sell now and which advertises the TPX
services offerred atwww.tpxonline.com.
> >      Please visit www.tpxonline.com or call TPX at 1-800-955-1879 to:
> >        1.. search the entire TPX Marketplace and our on-line auctions.
Contact sellers with the best deals
> >        2.. advertise your equipment for as little as $50 "until-it-sells"
and also start auctions
> >        3.. finds the best prices on rollers, parts, supplies and equipment
listed in the TPX Shopping System
> >        4.. outsource printing and other jobs using the TPX Buyers Guide
> >        5.. find employees by placing help-wanted ads in the TPX Jobs
Marketplace
>
> and the specific listing:
>
> >      A & V ORBITAL 8   $2,000 OBO,9 X 12.5",CLEAN, LOW USE KAREN HEIBERGER
otagman@...
>
> I have no other information or contact with the seller just thought others
here may be interested.
>
> ________________________
> Chad Pastotnik
> Deep Wood Press        231.587.0506
> website: http://www.deepwoodpress.com
> blog:  http://deepwoodpress.wordpress.com/
>

Hi,

I still print occasionally but most of my time is spent making toys
and paper pop-ups. Its time to start selling off my typographic
library. Most dealers don't want to buy books anymore--as in 'we pay
zero for any book less than $100'--so I thought I'd put them up on
ebay. My starting price is around 30-40% of comparable dealer pricing.
Books like 'Practical Typecasting'for $45, copies of Matrix from 1 to
16 from $110 up, some Fleurons and Goudy and DB Updike, a Grabhorn or
two. Many are not in immaculate condition but are good research tools
for letterpress printers and designer. If the sale goes well I'll put
up type specimens (ATF from 1900; BB&S, etc.)

Sorry for posting a commercial thing but I did get the ok from the
moderator first.

Link is:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Books-/267/i.html?_ipg=50&_ssn=sarabandepress&_sop=1

Best

Joe

ps I would like to think that this might be a good way for people to
get useful books.

I had the same humbling experience up here in the icy north.

Christian Morrison

Pantry Press Inc.
148 Pearson Avenue
Toronto, Ontario M6R 1G5

e: christian@...
t: 416-537-9977 | toll-free in North America 1-800-511-4767

w: www.pantrypress.com

Graham and Christian

Technically, if you want to reply to a sale please do it privately.

There are a number of reasons why someone in the US would not want to sell
internationally. Primarily, the USPS itself, lordy, hell on earth. Secondarily,
no security of receipt, at least, not one that anyone whats to pay for.
Sometimes you are better off just throwing the stuff in the dumpster. You'd save
money.

Gerald


--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Christian Morrison <christian@...> wrote:
>
> I had the same humbling experience up here in the icy north.
>
> Christian Morrison
>
> Pantry Press Inc.
> 148 Pearson Avenue
> Toronto, Ontario M6R 1G5
>
> e: christian@...
> t: 416-537-9977 | toll-free in North America 1-800-511-4767
>
> w: www.pantrypress.com
>

One cannot do as you suggest with the configuration of the List - everything
goes through the moderator and there is no option of "Reply to sender" other
than the one this email has gone to.

Incidentally ebay gives international shipping as an option for the seller,
but the seller has to know that to make the choice. Most of the refusals
don't realise that and have simply not ticked the box. Generally I have
found that there is nothing else to it such as a deliberate intention not to
offer the goods to anyone who will bid. Such was the case this time too.


Graham Moss
Incline Press
36 Bow Street
Oldham OL1 1SJ  England

http://www.inclinepress.com






On 4/9/12 05:06, "PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com"
<PPLetterpress-owner@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

> Technically, if you want to reply to a sale please do it privately.

> Sometimes you are better off just throwing the stuff in the
> dumpster. You'd save money.
>

This hurts especially since I've been thinking about doing this for
some books that I have lots of multiple copies of (Linotype Specimen
books from the 1990s, some books that I've published like Directory of
Type Designers, etc.). I worry that the dealer framework isn't working
for book dealers or users. Without a pricing framework there is just a
rush to the bottom with books selling for a penny on Amazon. While
this should be good for readers I think its decimated the field and
removed any incentive for bothering to sell books. This actually
lessens the marketplace. Why bother to sell books when its more
profitable to throw them away?

Its a strange time for books. I'm trying to design a new Hansel &
Gretel book with lasercut shadow cutouts. Its meant to be read or
projected as a shadow theatre. I've had it in the works for over a
year and can't figure out the appropriate format. There are 5 very
detailed laser cuts which take 21 minutes per book to cut. If I add
letterpress type, a slipcase, and a Maglite flashlight I'll be looking
at a cost of around $60 a piece to produce it. This turns into a very
expensive book at retail. I'm more inclined to make just the lasercuts
without the slipcase and letterpress to reduce the cost. I don't want
to produce some big magnum opus. At this point I'd just like to make
some little things that will live quietly on a shelf and not get
dumpsterized.

Best

Joe

"Race to the bottom" is right. I was excited about ebay when it first came out.
It seemed like the perfect way to get every object into the right hands.

I was right, but what I couldn't see then was that, in making this so easy, it
(not just ebay, but the internet in general) is causing almost everything to
reach its bottom value. This is probably most distinguished in the book
category. Perhaps this is because everyone perceived a book as a vehicle of
knowledge, which they think can all be had online now.

Sad, but I am hardly motivated to try and sell a book anymore. It's got to be
pretty remarkable and rare to be worth considering the 15 minutes it will take
to pack and ship it.

So, us book lovers should welcome the eventual pole shift or solar flares or
whatever it is that's going to knock out the internet for a while. We may lose
our vehicle for selling, but at least the values may eventually start going up
again.

--Scott

On Sep 4, 2012, at 8:42 AM, joe@... wrote:

>> Sometimes you are better off just throwing the stuff in the
>> dumpster. You'd save money.
>>
>
> This hurts especially since I've been thinking about doing this for
> some books that I have lots of multiple copies of (Linotype Specimen
> books from the 1990s, some books that I've published like Directory of
> Type Designers, etc.). I worry that the dealer framework isn't working
> for book dealers or users. Without a pricing framework there is just a
> rush to the bottom with books selling for a penny on Amazon. While
> this should be good for readers I think its decimated the field and
> removed any incentive for bothering to sell books. This actually
> lessens the marketplace. Why bother to sell books when its more
> profitable to throw them away?
>
> Its a strange time for books. I'm trying to design a new Hansel &
> Gretel book with lasercut shadow cutouts. Its meant to be read or
> projected as a shadow theatre. I've had it in the works for over a
> year and can't figure out the appropriate format. There are 5 very
> detailed laser cuts which take 21 minutes per book to cut. If I add
> letterpress type, a slipcase, and a Maglite flashlight I'll be looking
> at a cost of around $60 a piece to produce it. This turns into a very
> expensive book at retail. I'm more inclined to make just the lasercuts
> without the slipcase and letterpress to reduce the cost. I don't want
> to produce some big magnum opus. At this point I'd just like to make
> some little things that will live quietly on a shelf and not get
> dumpsterized.
>
> Best
>
> Joe
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Joe

In the 37 years I've been involved in the letterpress printing of books this has
been a continuous refrain from book dealers. Fine press books are no longer
salable, etc. Ever been to CODEX?

I do believe though that the market has significantly changed but I suspect that
is not necessarily a bad thing. And there is ample opportunity on the internet
to market your wares. You just have to get it out there.

If you don't make something that anyone else wants, well, that is your thing.
Not necessarily a bad thing, unless of course, you really are hoping to make a
living at it. No free lunch.

Well, there is always Kickstarter and the like. Didn't Meg Whitman use Fundly to
help fund her California gubernatorial campaign? something like $23 million. You
can do it too!

She lost by the way.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com



--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "joe@..." <joe@...> wrote:
>
> > Sometimes you are better off just throwing the stuff in the
> > dumpster. You'd save money.
> >
>
> This hurts especially since I've been thinking about doing this for
> some books that I have lots of multiple copies of (Linotype Specimen
> books from the 1990s, some books that I've published like Directory of
> Type Designers, etc.). I worry that the dealer framework isn't working
> for book dealers or users. Without a pricing framework there is just a
> rush to the bottom with books selling for a penny on Amazon. While
> this should be good for readers I think its decimated the field and
> removed any incentive for bothering to sell books. This actually
> lessens the marketplace. Why bother to sell books when its more
> profitable to throw them away?
>
> Its a strange time for books. I'm trying to design a new Hansel &
> Gretel book with lasercut shadow cutouts. Its meant to be read or
> projected as a shadow theatre. I've had it in the works for over a
> year and can't figure out the appropriate format. There are 5 very
> detailed laser cuts which take 21 minutes per book to cut. If I add
> letterpress type, a slipcase, and a Maglite flashlight I'll be looking
> at a cost of around $60 a piece to produce it. This turns into a very
> expensive book at retail. I'm more inclined to make just the lasercuts
> without the slipcase and letterpress to reduce the cost. I don't want
> to produce some big magnum opus. At this point I'd just like to make
> some little things that will live quietly on a shelf and not get
> dumpsterized.
>
> Best
>
> Joe
>

Gerald,
> Well, there is always Kickstarter and the like.
>

We did that back in May.

http://kck.st/KxbEw5

Our project exceeded its goal. My primary hope--besides getting money--
was to get new people aware of our work. Something like 52% of our
backers were people who were new to me. We also managed to get
software developed for use with the animation toy which we could not
have done without the kickstarter base. In hindsight our major failing
was that we actually shipped the promised rewards. The big projects
seem to take a year to ship. I knew that I was doing something wrong.
> If you don't make something that anyone else wants, well, that is
> your thing.
>
Its not just about making things that no one wants; I've always done
that. The question is the size of the market and the price point that
people are willing to pay.

Best

Joe

Joe

That's kind of a difficult question. Likely one you actually do not want
to know the answer to. If you can hype or market your art or work as if
it were some kind of widget or incredible collectible, well, you might
be able to do that (though you might not like the taste in your mouth).

Probably not though, and probably good for you in the long run. Just do
it, like Walter Hamady said, because "you have to."

W. A. Dwiggins probably did his greatest and most incredible work with
his marionettes. Did he make any money doing that? Is he remembered for
that? One book, The Dwiggins Marionettes, published belatedly, details
this, and for years it sat unsold by the publisher. I dearly admire WAD,
for his early illustration work (which he remorsefully abandoned) and
his typeface design directive, but most humanly for his great passion as
shown in that book. I was absolutely astounded when I found it,
remaindered by the publisher after so many years.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


On 9/4/12 10:01 PM, joe@... wrote:
> Gerald,
>
>> If you don't make something that anyone else wants, well, that is
>> your thing.
>>
> Its not just about making things that no one wants; I've always done
> that. The question is the size of the market and the price point that
> people are willing to pay.
>
> Best
>
> Joe

Difficult question indeed. I'll have a booth at the Los Angeles Printers Fair
this year, mostly to pass on type that I'm culling from my collection but also
to distribute some of the prints I've created because "I had to." How to price
them? Too high and someone who really appreciates and wants a print might need
to walk away. Too low and not only will my print be devalued, but it will alter
the value of letterpress prints in general. Then there's the issue of whether
I'm looking for "a good home" for my prints. If someone pays $30 for a print
they may frame it; if they pay $5 it may get thumbtacked to the wall and then
trashed when the grandkid's doodle replaces it. The question here is, do I
really care what happens? If simple appreciation is the goal, then maybe I
should ask potential purchasers to state in 25 words or less why they want the
print, and adjust the price depending on the answer. Or perhaps I should ask
them to point out five features that they especially like about the print, and
if one of their answers is "I love how you kerned the W and o in `World,'" then
bingo, a free print for you, madam. I suppose I'll have to look at a lot of
print prices and consider the things that affect value: The rarity? The size?
The paper? The number of colors? The complexity? The intellectual depth? The
overall design? The typography? The presswork? The renown of the printer? Extra
points if it's signed by a poet laureate. As for any undistributed prints that
remain at the end of my days, I truly don't care whether they end up in the
dumpster of some heir down the line. They served their purpose just getting
created, and perhaps just enabling letterpress to survive for one more
generation.

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, Gerald Lange <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> Joe
>
> That's kind of a difficult question. Likely one you actually do not want
> to know the answer to. If you can hype or market your art or work as if
> it were some kind of widget or incredible collectible, well, you might
> be able to do that (though you might not like the taste in your mouth).
>
> Probably not though, and probably good for you in the long run. Just do
> it, like Walter Hamady said, because "you have to."...
>
> On 9/4/12 10:01 PM, joe@... wrote:
> > Gerald,
> >
> >> If you don't make something that anyone else wants, well, that is
> >> your thing.
> >>
> > Its not just about making things that no one wants; I've always done
> > that. The question is the size of the market and the price point that
> > people are willing to pay.
> >
> > Best
> >
> > Joe
>

Dear Friends and Colleagues,

Attached is the official press release for my solo show opening this Thursday
(4pm - 7pm) in the Hoffman Gallery at Oregon College of Art and Craft. It is the
third piece in a recent investigation of reading and novels, in particular
reading My Antonia by Willa Cather.

For this installation I have painted the floor and walls of the gallery with a
large interpretive map, created a National Park-like viewing platform complete
with didactic information board, and old-school orienteering devices to guide
you physically through the novel.  The gallery is open 7 days a week from 10am
til 3pm. If you can only make it in the evening, please let me know and I can
arrange for the gallery to be open for you. This is a major artwork for me, and
I so want as many of you to experience it as possible. Hope you can get up here!
-Barb

Barbara Tetenbaum
September 13-October 23, 2012
Hoffman Gallery
8245 SW Barnes Road, Portland, OR, (971) 255-4143
Opening reception: Thursday, September 13, 4-7 pm
Gallery hours: 7 days a week, 10 am-3 pm

– Text-based installation by artist Barbara Tetenbaum opens at the Hoffman
Gallery on Thursday, September 13 –


September 10, 2012 (Portland, OR) – Book arts artist and Oregon College of Art
and Craft (OCAC) faculty member Barbara Tetenbaum has been exploring Willa
Cather's My Ántonia through large-scale art installations since 2010. On
Thursday, September 13, the third part of Tetenbaum’s investigation of this
great American novel and her personal experience reading it will debut at
OCAC’s Hoffman Gallery. The exhibit, which is free and open to the public,
will be at the gallery through October 23.

  “Barbara’s rich investigation of  My Ántonia through a variety of devices,
printed text and the space of the Hoffman Gallery helps map and ignite an
understanding of the novel’s remarkable story,” said OCAC President Denise
Mullen. “It’s a perfect example of how art can expand our understanding of
our world and even other works of art.”

"I wanted to put myself in the position of a first-time reader and map my
understanding of a novel as I listened to it on tape. I chose Cather's book
almost at random. What I didn't expect was how completely obsessed I would
become with the power and beauty of her writing, and her ability to use language
to evoke the truth of lived experience,” said Tetenbaum. “In this new
installation, I offer the visitor a chance to “see” the novel through short
text prompts written on folded pages, on the gallery floor and walls, and on a
carved information board mounted on a platform overlooking the gallery."

Tetenbaum is a professor and department head of Book Arts at OCAC. She is the
recipient of two Fulbright awards to teach in Leipzig, Germany and in Usti nad
Labem in the Czech Republic, and has received other awards of support for her
artwork and research. Tetenbaum has been printing artist books under the
imprint, Triangular Press, since 1979 and her books are held in public
collections in the United States, Canada, England, France, Germany and the
Netherlands.

Barbara Tetenbaum
September 13-October 23, 2012
Hoffman Gallery
8245 SW Barnes Road, Portland, OR, (971) 255-4143
Opening reception: Thursday, September 13, 4-7 pm
Gallery hours: 7 days a week, 10 am-3 pm

When I had a visit from a Jet tech rep many years ago, he suggested that I leave
clean water covering the brushes in my unit when it is sitting idle. The brushes
have remained quite supple and soft.

One question I would like to pose to the group is how often do folks clean their
washout units, weekly, monthly or what. When I am processing a good batch of
plates I find the water builds up in unexposed polymer and can become a bit,
shall we say, "slimy". When it gets to that point, I routinely dump and refill.
I also do that if I know the unit will be idle for a time. I just wondered if I
am doing the best in maintenance for it, and how often I should be doing a more
thorough cleaning.

I drain and then flush the bath every day of use. Photopolymer waste
will build up and harden on the surfaces of the bath unit and is
especially detrimental to brush health. Plus it attracts mold and
mildew, Polymer is an organic material so it's a natural smorgasbord for
God's little creatures. It's a lot easier just to take care of it on a
daily basis than to have to go in there an attempt to scrub it all out
once its gotten out of hand.

Just an additional note: The A&V Orbital units use horsehair brushes and
the manufacturer suggests the brushes need to dry out.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


On 9/11/12 9:10 AM, author50401 wrote:
> When I had a visit from a Jet tech rep many years ago, he suggested that I
leave clean water covering the brushes in my unit when it is sitting idle. The
brushes have remained quite supple and soft.
>
> One question I would like to pose to the group is how often do folks clean
their washout units, weekly, monthly or what. When I am processing a good batch
of plates I find the water builds up in unexposed polymer and can become a bit,
shall we say, "slimy". When it gets to that point, I routinely dump and refill.
I also do that if I know the unit will be idle for a time. I just wondered if I
am doing the best in maintenance for it, and how often I should be doing a more
thorough cleaning.
>
>

Hello PPLetterpress,

The application deadline for Spring Artist-in-Residence at Minnesota Center for Book Arts is fast approaching - October 1.  Information is posted below and application materials can be found on the web at: http://www.mnbookarts.org/artistsprograms/air.html.

ARTIST-IN-RESIDENCE PROGRAM

The Artist-in-Residence (AIR) program is designed to support selected artists by providing financial and community resources, space, and equipment to assist in the creation and promotion of their work. Residencies may be from two weeks to three months in duration. MCBA's AIR program is supported by the National Endowment for the Arts.

Studios and equipment are available to facilitate work in papermaking, printing and bookbinding. Artists-in-Residence also receive generous living and materials stipends, as well as a travel reimbursement up to $500. Participation in the program is based on the artistic merit of proposed projects as well as the degree to which artists further MCBA's artistic vision: to preserve the traditional crafts of fine printing, bookbinding and papermaking; champion book art as a vital contemporary art form; and demonstrate the critical role artists' books play in the advancement of cultural and visual literacy.

DURATION

MCBA's AIR program offers two types of residencies:

• Short-term residencies (2-3 weeks) are designed for research, skill building, and/or work on a single phase of a new or ongoing project, and include a stipend of $2,500. Short-term residencies are available in all three residency periods.
• Long-term residencies (2-3 months) are designed for production of a new work, and include a $2,000 housing allowance, a $2,500 stipend, and a $1,000 materials budget, for a total grant of $5,500. Long-term residencies are available in Summer and Fall residency periods only.

SELECTION PROCESS AND CRITERIA

Applications and supporting materials will be reviewed by MCBA staff and panelists from the book arts community. A variety of factors will be used to assess residency candidates. Base criteria are listed below. These elements should be clearly articulated in the candidate's letter of intent, project description, artist statement and resume. They should also be supported by work submitted for visual review.

• Technical expertise as demonstrated through the artist’s body of work and practical experience
• The specificity and clarity of artistic goals as expressed through the artist's project description and artist statement
• Demonstrations of past collaborative work with other artists and arts organizations
• The degree to which the residency benefits the artist’s further development
• A readiness by the artist to engage with MCBA’s community
• MCBA’s ability to offer support and equipment needed for project

 

ARTIST-IN-RESIDENCE BENEFITS

While in residence at MCBA, artists will have 24-hour access to MCBA facilities and equipment, including a dedicated A.I.R. studio space with a press, cutting equipment and ample storage space. MCBA has an extensively equipped letterpress shop with nine Vandercook proof presses (one reserved for A.I.R. use); two 19th century iron hand presses; various sign, etching and platen presses; a well-stocked composing room with wood and metal type; and a polymer platemaker offering on-site production of both intaglio and relief matrices. A large bindery and annex offer a variety of cutting and binding equipment and substantial bench space for larger projects. MCBA’s facility features two papermaking studios providing space for wet work, each containing a hydraulic press and basic papermaking moulds, plus three industrial-scale beaters for making paper pulp and equipment for both Western- and Eastern-style sheet formation. MCBA also has equipment for traditional marbling, wood engraving, screenprinting, calligraphy, leather tooling, and alternative photographic techniques. The Shop, MCBA’s newly renovated retail outlet, offers a variety of supplies for printmaking, papermaking, and binding, as well as sales opportunities for finished work.

The artist is encouraged to submit workshop or presentation proposals to MCBA, with applicability decided by the Artist and Adult Programs Director. Resident artists are paid by contract for teaching workshops at a rate equal to other MCBA instructors.

From time to time, resident artists execute special project work for MCBA or other associated individuals or groups. Under these conditions, artists are compensated at a rate equal to similar MCBA contracts. Special project work is dependent on demand and is not ensured for all program participants.

If a resident artist chooses to market his/her work produced at MCBA through The Shop, MCBA's retail outlet, staff may choose certain works for sale on a consignment basis. Joint promotion may be undertaken depending on the availability of funding for the project and whether such a project fits into MCBA's programming.

ARTIST-IN-RESIDENCE RESPONSIBILITIES

• The artist will be responsible for keeping facilities and equipment clean for others' use and undertake regular maintenance and organizational tasks necessary for upkeep and communal studio use.
• The artist will provide his/her own supplies for works in progress.
• Where possible, regular work hours should be established by the resident artist. A final project calendar should be submitted to MCBA at the beginning of the residency term.
• The artist should show a willingness to conduct demonstrations and/or participate in MCBA programming such as custom tours, Book Arts Roundtable presentations, etc.
• For each editioned artwork created in residence at MCBA, the artist will submit one copy to the MCBA archive. Any material accepted shall be considered a donation and become the property of MCBA.

 

APPLICATION DEADLINES AND RESIDENCY TIMELINES

• June 1, 2012
  Applications due for Fall residencies (one short-term, one long-term; to take place between September 1 and December 31, 2012). Residencies will be announced by June 15, 2012.
• October 1, 2012
  Applications due for Winter/Spring residencies (two short-term; to take place between January 1 and April 30, 2013). Residencies will be announced by October 15, 2012.
• February 1, 2013
  Applications due for Summer residencies (one short-term, one long-term; to take place between May 1 and August 31, 2013). Residencies will be announced by February 15, 2013.

For further information about the residencies at MCBA, contact Adult and Artist Programs Director      Sara R. Parr at 612.215.2526 or sparr@....

Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you!

Sara R. Parr
Artist and Adult Programs Director

Minnesota Center for Book Arts
1011 Washington Ave South
Minneapolis, MN  55415
612-215-2526
sparr@...   

The digital foundry P22 and the Hamilton Wood Type & Printing Museum are
collaborating on a line of wood type designs:


HWT American Chromatic....coming soon

P22 type foundry and the Hamilton Wood Type & Printing Museum are proud to
announce a partnership that brings 19th Century ingenuity into relevance with
the latest online technologies. This joint venture, known as the "Hamilton Wood
Type Foundry" (HWT), will see a large collection of wood type designs converted
into digital fonts that can be used with the latest Opentype programming
abilities. P22 is working with the Hamilton Museum and other collections of
scarce printed specimens as well as actual wood type to render these classic
designs into fully functioning computer fonts.

The Hamilton Wood Type & Printing Museum in Two Rivers, Wisconsin is the only
museum dedicated to the preservation, study, production and printing of wood
type. With 1.5 million pieces of wood type and more than 1,000 styles and sizes
of patterns, Hamilton's collection is one of the premier wood type collections
in the world and an unparalleled source of research material for type designers.

The first release from HWT coincides with the US Presidential election season.
"HWT American Chromatic" evokes classic Americana with stars and multi-color
layering options."HWT American Chromatic" will be available to the public in the
first week of October 2012.

Gerald

Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of
Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid
areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a
very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives
or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.

The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general
aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I
print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the
advice should be taken as such.

I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's Crayon
Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up Black.
The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and the
Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.

I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed
bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com


--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@...> wrote:
>
> Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of
Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid
areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a
very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives
or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
>

Thinking about this some more I suspect the bronzing might simply be the effect
of your mixing a relief ink with a matte litho ink. I once mixed Handschy Crayon
Black (a stone litho ink) with good ole tried and true Van Son 10850 (which
works in some applications) and got this weird spiking effect. Kind of liked it
for the piece but probably could never replicate it no matter how I tried.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

--- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "bielerpr" <Bieler@...> wrote:
>
> The Daniel Smith relief inks tend to be a bit waxy. Relief inks in general
aren't so great, bit too soupy. I use stone litho inks almost exclusively. I
print with Vandercooks though, so if you are using another kind of press, the
advice should be taken as such.
>
> I've had great success with Graphic Chemical's Lithographic Senefelder's
Crayon Black. Amazing Black. It's a bit stiff but can be cut with their Roll Up
Black. The whole line seems quite good. The Stiff Opaque White is to die for and
the Laketine extender is bizarrely cool. Best line of inks I have found.
>
> I've tried most blacks out there though and I can't say I've ever noticed
bronzing. Might be something unique to what you are doing.
>
> Gerald
> http://BielerPress.blogspot.com
>
>
> --- In PPLetterpress@yahoogroups.com, "susanmakov" <smakov@> wrote:
> >
> > Lately, I have been having problems with my black relief inks (a mixture of
Daniel Smith Relief black with lithographic matte black) bronzing in solid
areas. I am printing on Tosa Hanga Japanese paper. I air dry it (I live in a
very arid area) because it seems to take at least a week to dry. Any additives
or special relief inks that do not bronze? Thanks for your ideas.
> >
>