> Gene: Contemplating, if it pleases you... to decode
> the code...

To decode the code... what an enormous piece.

Patterns are a clue, grab them.

Let's assume the process is the same as picking out repetition of
numbers coursing across the screen, but numbers which change their
size, font, and color as the progression advances. It is the number,
not the current appearance of the number, which is the focus. This is
easy...

I think now about a puzzle I received recently. One must name the color
of a word that represents another color.

Suddenly, things are confused. Concentration must be held upon an
unexpected aspect of what appears, truth is in this aspect, not in the
aspect we are typically called to recognize. This is a real confusion,
one reinforced by a world that continually calls things by false
names... or a world that does not recognize/allow for the coexistance
of several aspects within one name.

How does one begin, then? When one starts at 0? When one might not even
have faith in one's ability to recognize a pattern that is the actual
pattern, and not a pattern that has been dictated by a world that would
have one remain clueless to what is going on?


__________________________________________________
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--- In Open_Source_Spirit@y..., "Gloria Lee" <glee@c...> wrote:
>
>   Nina: Implementing a universal language for all to use would
>   require transcendance on an enormous scale... or rooting out the
>   prototypes to the most essential degree.
>
>   Language is as integral to our bodies as our cells. Once one
>   language is learned and set as 'home base', it is very difficult
>   to make the idiomatic switch to another language. Possible, but
>   difficult, and the question remains whether the individual is
>   fully operable in the new idiom.
>
>   This is the piece that makes me wonder about westerners forgoing
>   their own paradigms to invest fully in eastern paradigms.
>
>   Glo: Yes, good question! Do we have a common, universal
>   experience being expressed in different paradigms..or truly
>   different experiences? What's on the table here? This seems
>   essential to know ...people do not easily surrender their
>   paradigms, even when commonality is perceived.
>
>   > JP: Some turned to pictorial symbols - hoping to represent and
>   > convey "Truth" in a universal, trans-cultural, meta-linguistic
>   > model. Like the awesome Tarot.
>
>   Nina: Yes, I was going to include above a mention of the value of
>   stories, of story-telling as an instructional tool. Hand in hand
>   with story-telling is image-making. Useful to an extent... as
>   another language code.
>
>   What are the rootiest of the root images?
>
>   Glo: One of the fundamental, as in a first and remaining
>   important stimuli is the design of "face"- <snip>
>   The elaborations of this are endless, but looking at how we have
>   put a human face on our gods seems an
>   obvious one if an attempt is made at deconstructing spiritual
>   images. The face is for sure one of those 'triggers"
>   Jeff mentioned.
>
>   > Jeff: The attempt to convey meaning/Truth in a translatable
>   > language accessible through symbol to any human - accessed
>   > through ancient imprints in the collective mind of the species -
>   > perhaps hardwired/encoded in DNA - is a grand and glorious
>   > pursuit.

Nina: From The Tree of Yoga, BKS Iyengar, another take on the use of
and dependency on finite words:

"The rivers which flow in your country and the rivers which flow in
my country help to irrigate our lands and make them fertile; then
they all flow into the sea and become one single ocean. Likewise, we
are all human beings created by God with no differences between us at
all. We are all one. The methods of spiritual development are given
for the evolution of individuals throughout the world. So do not get
carried away by the words which are used in different countries. The
essence is the same. Look into the essence and do not be misled by
the names."

This advice is applicable even among those who believe they 'speak
the same language'.

I recall the difficulty I once had making sense of some of Gene's
writing. The assembly of words made no sense to me. I pulled out the
dictionary and analyzed each word, attempting to relate it to the
others in some way as to pull out understanding. The understanding
evaded me until I let go of my established rules of relation among
such words... until I let the words form their own meanings,
independent of how I had seen them used before... until I just read
enough of those words to finally grok an understanding.

Now I am laughing thinking of my preference for a certain manner of
learning, which is, osmotic exposure. Soaking in whatever it is that
would be learned, like an infant in the language of its parents. This
is what has prompted me to play the dozens of recordings of the
intensives for a training I am currently doing like background music
while I work. I pay the voices on the tapes little attention, but
certain words and combinations of words begin to seep in and make
more sense, seemingly of their own accord.

Now I wonder about language as a means of transmission. Words,
shrouds, what is passed is not the word, but what is within the word,
a kernel within a seed.

Now I wonder about the specificity of words, the apparent
complexities produced from choosing, say, 'compel' over 'impel'. So
many fine gradations, sometimes the word choices are... not quite on
target. But does that change the kernel?

What would it be without words?

Listening for what is not spoken.

I listen for what YOU have to say, what you say with no words, I find
that there is no you, that there is current, not silence, but
current. That is all... keep listening.

"Speak my Language"

Daddy Daddy, it was just like you said
Now that the living outnumber the dead.

Where I come from it's a long thin thread
Across an ocean. Down a river of red.
Now that the living outnumber the dead
I'm one of many.

Daddy Daddy, it was just like you said
Now that the living outnumber the dead.
Speak my language.

Hello. Hello.
Here come the quick. There go the dead.
Here they come. Bright red.
Speak my language.

(Laurie Anderson, album entitled Bright Red)

Seek my language. That's all... still listening.

What is driving this great compunction to make onself understood
through words?

A few years ago, I found out about this practice called, "open
focus".  There are tapes you listen to and learn the practice of
meditating on the space in the body.  I like it.  After doing it, I
remember walking through K-Mart feeling wonderfully thought free.
Like a Nirvana or something.  It is awareness practice.  Now, I
incorporate this along with looking and listening in order
to 'escape' or practice or what you may call it from the mind.  Now,
you might say, 'why should you want to escape'.  Well, it is really
undoing the escape.  The mind jibber jabbering is the escape from
reality.  So, I am finding that looking and listening and feeling
grounds me.

I liked Gene Poole's article on Class Notes.  I don't subscribe to
NDS but wonder if there is a follow up or if there are any more class
notes I can obtain or review?

Thanks,

Paul

Hello JP and others, thanks for having me Gene,

Your Khan reference set me to thinking; enlightenment must be somewhat like RM's
chest piece, don't you think?; until you see it, it's invisible, once you do see
it you can never fail to see it.

Grant.


> ** Original Subject: [OSS] All systems a-go Gene
> ** Original Sender: "jppoffandi" <jppoffandi@...>
> ** Original Date: 24 Aug 2002 00:08:02 -0000

> ** Original Message follows...

>
> Salutations Gene
>
> > >
> > >OSS is very cool and hot!  I don't care if you may be
> >>undergoing a hypomanic, Crowleyian delusion - it is lovely! :)
> >
> > Yes, I can see where that may be the impression. But I
> > assure you that this _experiment_ is well-grounded.
>
> Of that I am certain. Proceed with magickal-wisdom-compassion
> operation.
>
> > >Thankfully - no one has proprietary privileges on infinite
> > >Consciousness and its varied expressions or experiences.
> > >Unless of course, someone does - in which case I humbly
> > >grovel at their feet!
> >
> > There are varying levels of skill... as well as experience.
>
> Not being a Mahasiddha - I take inventory of my own meagre
> tool-set of skills, capacities and experience.
>
> Thankfully, I have lotsa Duct Tape!
>
>
> > >Spiritual experiences turned into metaphor, symbol, code,
> > >meme, system, institution, dogma, advertising, PR, politicized
> > >weaponry.
> >
> > Meaning-making... hobby, profession, or obsession?
>
> All of the above + encoded, genetic, instinctive imperative.
>
> So intimate and hardwired a part of the human/neural
> experience of consciousness that it is extremely difficult to
> recognize it as such.
>
> Until it is recognized as such.
>
> But not as difficult as recognizing the presence of actual beef in a
> McDonalds hamburger.
>
> > Or... we can just give it our best.
>
> Let's. Or a close simulation thereof.
>
> > All approaches can be used, if useful.
>
> I like that. All approaches can be useful if useful. You hidden
> tulku you...
>
> > Indeed... we can sift them to find commonality and essence.
>
> "Thars gold of essence in dem darn hills!"
>
>
> > Cool... prepare for cortical expansion...
>
> Engaging cortex and neural pathways! Engaging bio-quantum
> interface!
>
> Watching out for Ricardo Montalban in an over-muscled foam
> chest-piece!
>
> JP
>
>
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Open_Source_Spirit-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>


>** --------- End Original Message ----------- **

>

--- In Open_Source_Spirit@y..., Gene Poole <gene_poole@q...> wrote:
> OSS
>
> >"Are you willing to trust whatever is living you?"
> >
> >--From "Spirituality Beyond Self Improvement," an audiotape by
David
> >Deida
> Yes... 'I' am being lived... that is how it seems,
> honestly... as in, I do not remember starting this
> whole thing... although I do remember that once
> I did remember that... it is vague today...


Well as Nisargadatta says "our lives are being lived for us" and as
you say the same thing i guess the question of surrender doesn't even
arise. Nature provides everything that i need this moment. But if i
were to trust the "whatever" then moment to moment i have to accept
whatever is. but how can i do this?

> So... what you ask seems to be related to what
> is called 'the choiceless choice'... that would
> encompass 'trust' in the context of your question...

Ok could we explore choice? Atleast on this one particular matter do
i have a free choice to be fully present in this moment. My
experience is "yes" but truly this would go against the concept of
non-doership. No wonder Osho said beliefs are all lies. or maybe i
don't understand what is non-doing.
>
> Trust in this context... is surrender... to allow
> a 'higher and greater' intelligence to steer my
> course... this is how it seems... and I enjoy it
> very much... blissfully so...

surrender or let-go doesn't arise in this present moment, only when i
am thinking does this concept arise. but i am thinking and even with
all this jabber going on in my head i could be "present." is this so?
>
> Yet, I am still responsible... in the sense that
> my actions have consequences which I must
> account for...

i am responsible...i am for not flowing with the Living energy.

> A very wise man said to me, years ago:
>
> "Do not let what is right, deter you from
> doing what you must do."
>
> To choose surrender... this is a word we must
> explore deeply... surrender with no 'back door'...
>
> For me, it has been 'easy', but maybe I am the
> only person who can understand that... I usually
> fail when trying to 'explain' this to others...
>
> It seems that to surrender without trust, is something
> that is done only at the point of a bayonet...
>
> Or perhaps to surrender, with the intention to
> get' something... to make an advancement on
> the board-game of spiritual progress...  this too
> is bogus...

Well to end i would quote from a book i am presently reading.

"You are the one that is responsible for the state of not only your
life, but for the state of the world as it is, as well. There is no
need to go searching out the akashic records to see if all this is
true. There is no need to go and see a clairvoyant or psychic to find
out if this is the case. There is no need to be hit by  a bus for you
to have a near death experience to see the trueness of this matter.
There is no need to go and seek out a Indian guru to tell you that
you are the creator of your own mess. There is no need to go any
further than the tip of your own nose."-Raymond Joseph Omundsen
(Elysha) From :Heart in Motion

> We should explore 'surrender'... what do you think?

> ==Gene Poole==

In a message dated 08/23/2002 6:06:44 AM Alaskan Daylight Time,
murrkis@... writes:

<< Project Architect, enmeshed in his own language, is offered ingress
  into this language, but refuses. >>

All roles have a specific language for accomplishing their  specific goals.
It defines them, and so often this definition of identity seems so much more
important than the common bond itself, until...

----- Original Message -----

From: Gene Poole

To: Open_Source_Spirit@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 12:55 PM

Subject: [OSS] Re: origins of language, sound (Gloria)

OSS

Gloria... many thanks for joining...

You asked me:


>PS to Gene. While I'm on here, in view of your
>no cross-posting policy, what is your
>position vis a vis the highlights?

Hmmm... are you asking if it is OK to include
material from OSS in the NDS Highlights list?

It is alright with me... some members might
not be familiar with what that is... perhaps
you could give a rundown on it for
informational purposes...

Thanks, Glo... nice to have you
here...


==Gene Poole==

The other day, an email came across my desk. This email was from the
Consultant, specialty in programs for children, who is advising the Man
who will be donating money towards the daycare facility that is being
designed in my office. It was clear from her email that she was of a
particular mindset, as informed by her areas of Specialty,
Notspecialty, and Noteducated.

Enter the Project Architect, who has been using the words 'just a
consultant' when speaking of this woman. Regardless of this
Consultant's relationship with the purse-strings Man, money=building,
she is being written off as a Nonentity in the equation of what gets
built. When the suggestion is made to Project Architect that he read an
article on daycare programming (the language of which has been used
extensively by the daycare client and every other daycare consultant
involved in this project), he demures, stating that it is not
necessary.

What is going on here?

Consultant has one language.

Project Architect, enmeshed in his own language, is offered ingress
into this language, but refuses.

What will happen in this meeting?

Project Architect will use his language to present the building, a
language which has already alienated the daycare Consultant.

What will be the result of this meeting?

What is the result of any meeting in which no attempt is made to cross
the lines into shared vocabulary?

To ally the opponent, one must understand where this opponent-ally is
coming from, to outwit them with their own wits,

(which in the context of Consultant and Project Architect oftentimes is
simply (simply?) a matter of using the word

PROGRAM

in the context of fun things for kids to do

rather than in the context of what spaces one requires for a building
for kids)

which is to say that one must learn the language of the opponent-ally
and use it effectively for any movement to occur.

__________________________________________________
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--- Gene Poole <gene_poole@...> wrote:
> What can we say... about how we see difference...
> as though difference is significant...
>
> On the long trip... perhaps seen later as 'augenblik'...
> there is a constant...
>
> To see now, the constant...
>
>
> ==Gene Poole==

It is a road trip and the game is a variation of Slug Bug. Instead of
whacking the travel companion every time a Volkswagon is spotted, one
may whack the Volkswagons as they come and go.

The trip is long. One may grow weary of the game of Volkswagon whacking
and wonder what is beyond Volkswagons. Maybe then it becomes a game of
whacking songs on the crackly car radio, then radio stations as they
fade in and out, each subsequent radio broadcaster giving away
difference through dialect. Landscapes that fly by, the sun and moon
moving across the sky, days and nights. The bugs splatting on the
windshield, the bugs washed away, less and less convincingly, by sprays
of thinly bubbling washer fluid. Conversation and no conversation with
the traveling companion. Gas stations. Dirty restrooms. Bad snacks.
Yawns and unintentional lane swerves. Hip shiftings in a bucket seat,
futile attempts to still sciatica. Still whacking...

Whacking based on what is different from before and what will be,
that's what makes the game. Now it is not here, now it is here, WHACK,
now it isn't.

The road goes on and on, seemingly...

...but it must end, too.

WHACK.

Car parked behind me, I am trailed by a scattering of bad snack
wrappers as I peer out over the cliff at the ocean. Now what? I am
physically blocked from moving forward. What now?

I send out my imagination, over wave upon wave, each wave another
whack. Dive down amongst the fishes, whacking, oxygen bubbles,
whacking, depth, whacking, ocean floor, whacking. Up again, out again,
the whacking could go on forseeminglyever.

I'm back on the cliff, whacking the imagination, the outward
projection.

Whereto, when outward fails?

Inward, where I might as well be back in that ocean.

Whereto, when inward fails?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes
http://finance.yahoo.com

OSS


Greetings, Jeff...

You said:


>   Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:41:12 -0400
>   From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
>Subject: Re: spiritual etymology and its discontents
>
>Hi Gene -
>
>I loved JP's post. Great writer.
>Healthy neurons. A blatant provocateur.

I would agree...

I have a pretty relaxed attitude about all of this...
it is not an emergency... and it can be a lot of fun...

To 'poll' all members concerning a word, and then
come to agreement on the essence of meaning...

And to eventually compile a 'database'... seekers
could be enabled by such... although, I do not
propose this exercise as salvation...

>One word popped out.
>
>"Thankful"
>
>Its melds with surrender
>in a smiley-face sort of
>way.

Yes... maybe that is why I have a relaxed attitude...
all is well...

>I think the New York Times
>might embrace this word game.

Well, let's wait a while before coming to their
attention... maybe we can leverage a multimillion
dollar deal with them... I am into sharing the
prophets... heh heh...

>With deep respect,
>
>Jeff

Thank you sir...

Nice to see you here... and thanks
for joining OSS...


==Gene Poole==

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OSS


Hello again, Nina...

You wrote:

>   Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:20:32 -0700 (PDT)
>   From: Nina Murrell-Kisner <murrkis@...>
>Subject: hormonal cocktail Re: nuclear fission / fusion
>
>--- Gene Poole <gene_poole@...> wrote:
>
> > I guess this is what is
> > called 'change'
> >
> > Yet emptiness does
> > not change
> >
> > I feel every twitch of
> > change as though
> > all change is
> > happening
> > in me
> >
> > I guess
> > that makes me
> > emptiness
> >
> > If I ran Starbucks
> > I would make a drink
> > called
> > Nuclear Sunrise
>
>Female Hormone Analysis, graphic depiction of hormonal cocktail through
>time.
>
>On the 8th day, estradiol and progesterone flip-flop. This is highly
>unusual, particularly when governed by birth control pills. The techs
>checked the sample several times to be sure of the results.
>
>I check my calendar for that day. I read: headache, muscle fatigue and
>soreness, etc.
>
>I think: no wonder. I was a different person on that day, radically
>changed.
>
>But wait, what changed?
>
>What remained the same?
>
>What is this thing that is noticed and would say 'I was a different
>person on that day'?
>
>My personality, my outlook, my sense of wellness, the interaction of
>testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, a great bath, negotiating
>passage through organs, tissues, bones, coursing my blood, a ride on a
>wild horse, one of many horses, through liquid landscapes.
>
>I dismount. The horses continue...

Nice...

What can we say... about how we see difference...
as though difference is significant...

On the long trip... perhaps seen later as 'augenblik'...
there is a constant...

To see now, the constant...


==Gene Poole==

OSS

Gloria... many thanks for joining...

You asked me:


>PS to Gene. While I'm on here, in view of your
>no cross-posting policy, what is your
>position vis a vis the highlights?

Hmmm... are you asking if it is OK to include
material from OSS in the NDS Highlights list?

It is alright with me... some members might
not be familiar with what that is... perhaps
you could give a rundown on it for
informational purposes...

Thanks, Glo... nice to have you
here...


==Gene Poole==

OSS


Hi Nina...

You wrote to me:

>   Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 14:27:51 -0000
>   From: "murrkis" <murrkis@...>
>Subject: roots of words Re: language code
>
>Hello, Gene,
>
> > >Gene, thanks for opening this forum. It looks like a fascinating
> > >endeavor! A spiritual thesaurus of sorts...
> >
> > Yes... if we get that far... but the fun is in the trip, yes?
>
>Yes, sometimes, the trip is all we get.

Might as well make it 'first class' all the way... why not?

Pass the dry-roasted almonds, please...

> > >I agree with eric from NDS that much confusion comes from the
> > >untracable and sometimes seemingly conflicting language used to
> > >describe 'the same thing'. Each paradigm has its own language code,
> > >isolated. Does it do any good to keep banging one over the head
> > >with the same language? Perhaps, eventually, yes, eventually...
> > >but what rate and form of understanding may happen if the language
> > >is laid out as 'just that' and cross-comparison to other language
> > >codes is promoted? This is getting beyond dogma...
> >
> > Yes... every language is built of words, and every word has
> > roots... proto-words, as they are called... primative words
> > seldom used plain anymore... now all grown up and dressed
> > in modern regalia... this is one possibility that I have pursued
> > with some success... to come up from the root of a word, allows
> > us to more deeply understand the current usages, proper and
> > otherwise...
>
>From my sage of the moment, Ani DiFranco:
>
>(excerpted from a song called Fuel, the Little Plastic Castle album)
>...am i headed for the same brick wall
>is there anything i can do about
>anything at all?
>except go back to that corner in manhattan
>and dig deeper, dig deeper this time
>down beneath the impossible pain of our history
>beneath unknown bones
>beneath the bedrock of the mystery
>beneath the sewage systems and the path train
>beneath the cobblestones and the water mains
>beneath the traffic of friendships and street deals
>beneath the screeching of kamikaze cab wheels
>beneath everything i can think of to think about
>beneath it all, beneath all get out
>beneath the good and the kind and the stupid and the cruel
>there's a fire just waiting for fuel
>
>there's a fire just waiting for fuel

Those who throw themselves beneath
the wheels of industry... learn deeply of
the nature of cobblestones...

> > >I was in the midst of banging out understanding with another person
> > >regarding a certain dynamic in our relationship as forced by
> > >conditioning when this person used the phrase 'ah, that is your
> > >program'. The only other place I have heard use of the
> > >word 'program' is NDS, primarily from Gene. That this woman,
> > >seemingly separate from the world in which I typically hear use of
> > >that word, would use that word struck me powerfully. In a single
> > >word, entire worlds of meaning were drawn up. It was as if a
> > >secret were being shared out of nowhere. She knew the code, and
> > >used it (unintentionally?) to unlock understanding...
> >
> > Yes... nice...
> >
> > No error there... no coincidence... more like deja vu as
> > revealed in The Matrix the movie... a clue to go deeper...
>
> > No harm in going deep...
>
>No..
>
>best,
>Nina

Thanks, Nina...

We can enjoy the peace, up here in our blimp...
the overview reveals patterns unseen by those
grovelling on the ground... making a difference...
committed to ideals of correct reaction...

It is permitted to practice non-attachment... to
experience disappearance of the hooks which
tug at our flesh... light and cool... for a long
moment... anyone can take a break...

Contemplating, if it pleases you... to decode
the code...


==Gene Poole==

OSS


Hello Norma...

Thanks for joining... welcome...

You wrote:


>   From: wrmspirit@...
>Subject: Re: language code
>
>
>gene_poole@... writes:
>
>
> > I find that just accepting this 'determination' allows
> > special moments to really stand out... like a moment in
> > a ball game when the ball is in  motion... everyone lights
> > up... 'will he/she get it?'... or will there be a fumble...
>
>
>Yes, so very special   ....The moments of surprise....
>
>beyond the grasp of the intellect...
>
>It's nice to be here.....Thank you, Gene...
>
>Norma

Very welcome, Norma... thanks for receiving...


==Gene Poole==

OSS


Greetings, Jeff...

You said:


>   Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:41:12 -0400
>   From: Jeff Belyea <jeff@...>
>Subject: Re: spiritual etymology and its discontents
>
>Hi Gene -
>
>I loved JP's post. Great writer.
>Healthy neurons. A blatant provocateur.

I would agree...

I have a pretty relaxed attitude about all of this...
it is not an emergency... and it can be a lot of fun...

To 'poll' all members concerning a word, and then
come to agreement on the essence of meaning...

And to eventually compile a 'database'... seekers
could be enabled by such... although, I do not
propose this exercise as salvation...

>One word popped out.
>
>"Thankful"
>
>Its melds with surrender
>in a smiley-face sort of
>way.

Yes... maybe that is why I have a relaxed attitude...
all is well...

>I think the New York Times
>might embrace this word game.

Well, let's wait a while before coming to their
attention... maybe we can leverage a multimillion
dollar deal with them... I am into sharing the
prophets... heh heh...

>With deep respect,
>
>Jeff

Thank you sir...

Nice to see you here... and thanks
for joining OSS...


==Gene Poole==

OSS

Greetings, JP...

You wrote...

>   Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 07:46:10 -0000
>   From: "jppoffandi" <jppoffandi@...>
>Subject: spiritual etymology and its discontents
>
>Hi Gene
>
>OSS is very cool and hot!  I don't care if you may be undergoing a
>hypomanic, Crowleyian delusion - it is lovely! :)

Yes, I can see where that may be the impression. But I
assure you that this _experiment_ is well-grounded.

>Certain to be disliked by fundamentalist nondualist
>quasi-gnostic folk who may view "mind", intellect, language as
>evil, useless obstacles to the state of wordless, silent, unitive
>liberation.

Indeed...

>Thankfully - no one has proprietary privileges on infinite
>Consciousness and its varied expressions or experiences.
>Unless of course, someone does - in which case I humbly
>grovel at their feet!

There are varying levels of skill... as well as experience.

>Trying to reveal an open view - a way to individual/collective
>deconstruction and de-conditioning by openly showing the
>hidden processes of how spiritual meaning can be constructed
>and how the mind/brain can be conditioned.
>
>Someone email Noam Chomsky!

Yes... glad you see that connection.

>Spiritual experiences turned into metaphor, symbol, code,
>meme, system, institution, dogma, advertising, PR, politicized
>weaponry.

Meaning-making... hobby, profession, or obsession?

>It can be very fun to see how this develops.
>
>I do think that this kind of idea will require a group moderating
>approach more suited to a bar bouncer than a warm-fuzzy
>workshop facilitator.

No problem.

>Wondering about the hows of opening, creating, listing "spiritual"
>terms/words/definitions/experiences that could be
>non-proprietary. I would consider it an accomplishment to "open"
>a single term/word/experience - a process that may require
>much time and effort - late nights, lotsa pepsi and pizza - and
>funding from philanthropic think-tanks. :)

Or... we can just give it our best.

>Is there a standard, common etymology to be agreed upon?

No.

>Example: the word "Evolution"
>
>http://www.wordorigins.org/wordore.htm#evolution lists all all too
>brief interpretation of the origin of the word and cites Stephen Jay
>Gould's "Darwin's Dilemma: The Odyssey of Evolution".
>
>The linguistic roots of the word as it was coined are also relevant
>but unmentioned.
>
>How important is The Origin of the Species of Words?
>
>Which dictionary should be used to refer to standardized
>definitions of words. I vote for Oxford - but which edition?

Yes... oxford is  good...

>Or do we dispense with the established structures altogether?
>That could be fun. New skins for new wine from ancient grapes
>(and gripes)? Create new language and code?

All approaches can be used, if useful.

>Break with the rules of academic rigor? The scientific method?

If need be...

>Howzabout new language created with randomly generated
>sounds and symbols- randomly generated by a software code?
>Sounds that are then phoneticized. New words that owe no
>allegiance to ethno-historic humanly developed language.

The result would be identical to what we already have...

>Many terms/words will be encountered that are commonly
>mentioned in "spiritual" contexts, but which arose in different
>cultures and distant times and have since been subsumed into
>our everyday "spiritual" parlance.

Indeed... we can sift them to find commonality and essence.

>Is selection of new definitions done by a show of hands -
>democratic vote - secret ballot - decree - I Ching? Can anyone on
>the selection committee be bribed  : )

It might do, to use conversation... between us human types...
others are also invited...

>Anyway - enough for now. Thanks Gene - this is fun. Maybe not
>for everyone - but for a guy with overactive neurons - it's a blast!
>I'm a sporadic poster - but this is way fun.
>
>JP

Cool... prepare for cortical expansion...


==Gene Poole==

--- Gene Poole <gene_poole@...> wrote:
> I guess this is what is
> called 'change'
>
> Yet emptiness does
> not change
>
> I feel every twitch of
> change as though
> all change is
> happening
> in me
>
> I guess
> that makes me
> emptiness
>
> If I ran Starbucks
> I would make a drink
> called
> Nuclear Sunrise

Female Hormone Analysis, graphic depiction of hormonal cocktail through
time.

On the 8th day, estradiol and progesterone flip-flop. This is highly
unusual, particularly when governed by birth control pills. The techs
checked the sample several times to be sure of the results.

I check my calendar for that day. I read: headache, muscle fatigue and
soreness, etc.

I think: no wonder. I was a different person on that day, radically
changed.

But wait, what changed?

What remained the same?

What is this thing that is noticed and would say 'I was a different
person on that day'?

My personality, my outlook, my sense of wellness, the interaction of
testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, a great bath, negotiating
passage through organs, tissues, bones, coursing my blood, a ride on a
wild horse, one of many horses, through liquid landscapes.

I dismount. The horses continue...





__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs
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Nina:Implementing a universal language for all to use would require
transcendance on an enormous scale... or rooting out the prototypes to
the most essential degree.

Language is as integral to our bodies as our cells. Once one language
is learned and set as 'home base', it is very difficult to make the
idiomatic switch to another language. Possible, but difficult, and the
question remains whether the individual is fully operable in the new
idiom.

This is the piece that makes me wonder about westerners forgoing their
own paradigms to invest fully in eastern paradigms.

 

Glo: Yes, good question! Do we have a common, universal experience being

expressed in different paradigms..or truly different experiences? What's on the table

here? This seems essential to know ...people do not easily surrender their paradigms, even when

commonality is perceived.

> Some turned to pictorial symbols - hoping to represent and
> convey "Truth" in a universal, trans-cultural, meta-linguistic
> model. Like the awesome Tarot.

Nina: Yes, I was going to include above a mention of the value of stories, of
story-telling as an instructional tool. Hand in hand with story-telling
is image-making. Useful to an extent... as another language code.

What are the rootiest of the root images?

 

Glo: One of the fundamental, as in a first and remaining important stimuli is the design of "face"-

an image to which a response is encoded in our DNA. This is something the designers of robots

and Stephen Spielberg have used to great advantage. Putting "a face" on something, the more it resembles

human, or even better baby shaped..the more inevitably it elicits the predictable response. Babies will focus

on face designs, even just the 3 dots and mouth line on a card, in preference to all other images and shapes.

The elaborations of this are endless, but looking at how we have put a human face on our gods seems an

obvious one if an attempt is made at deconstructing spiritual images. The face is for sure one of those 'triggers"

Jeff mentioned.

 Jeff: > The attempt to convey meaning/Truth in a translatable language
> accessible through symbol to any human - accessed through
> ancient imprints in the collective mind of the species - perhaps
> hardwired/encoded in DNA - is a grand and glorious pursuit.

 

Glo:Yes, I applaud Gene's intent with pursuing this. Tho not sure how or where to begin, this brainstorming

stage of kicking around ideas is fun and exciting all by itself. Sounds, visuals, etc...

Nina:
Yesterday I was flipping through a book in my doc's office entitled 'We
are all Waterbabies'. One of the chapters put forth a very interesting
premise - that at some point in our evolution, more recently than we
would think, our ancestors were adapted to life in water as well as on
land. The researchers compared human bodies to bodies of other mammals
in the land and water. There are as many similarities in our bodies
(relative brain size, dietary needs, physical structure, locomotion
patterns, form and product of sexual intercourse <including orgasm>...)
to dolphins as there are to apes.

Glo: So true...babies are breathing water in the womb. It was a new thing back

when I had my babies to play "womb sounds" recordings to soothe them. I was struck

by how much the sounds of the heart beating and blood moving resemble waves at the beach.

 

Nina: That aside, it is gratifying to find sound concurrence with
another/others. While sounding in a large group, the entire body seems
to act as the toner. Yesterday, while sounding in such a situation, my
body began to vibrate in unification with the woman next to me. Any
change in pitch from one of us was changing the pitch in the other -
absolutely unintentionally on my part - I was amazed. Our bodies
coalescing, we had become unified throat.

This reminds me of a piece Christiana contributed to NondualParent a
while back about using tone to calm children. From what I understood,
one could tone in to the child's tone and then gradually draw the tone
in a calmer direction.

 

Glo: Also people adjust body poses, and mimic movements of others when

dialoguing..studies have been done, of course! The whole body language of signals

are another language we read, usually unconsciously.

 

Gloria

 

PS to Gene. While I'm on here, in view of your no cross-posting policy, what is your

position vis a vis the highlights?

 

OSS


Greetings to All...


Thanks... for participating...

I will be replying later... must run now
to pay bills...

But first a thought:


As one who watches
division  /fission and
joining / fusion

I notice these events
apparently happening
and they are happening
in emptiness

I guess this is what is
called 'change'

Yet emptiness does
not change

I feel every twitch of
change as though
all change is
happening
in me

I guess
that makes me
emptiness

If I ran Starbucks
I would make a drink
called
Nuclear Sunrise

Like 'realization' in words

Like 'enlightenment'
in the realm of
phenomenology

Chemical relativity
understood makes
formulation of hyper-
caffeineated drinks
easy

So too does
understood
relativity of meanings
make formulation of
conceptual light
easy

Chemical light
Conceptual light
Understanding

Yes it is play
in emptiness

And entirely
'do-able'...


==Gene Poole==


Etymologists discover ancient
secret burial grounds of
proto-words, and bones of
first thesaurus... pictures
at eleven...

OSS

>"Are you willing to trust whatever is living you?"
>
>--From "Spirituality Beyond Self Improvement," an audiotape by David
>Deida
>
>
>Rashmi

Hello Rashmi... welcome!

Your question... in the form of a quote...

My answer is this:

Yes... 'I' am being lived... that is how it seems,
honestly... as in, I do not remember starting this
whole thing... although I do remember that once
I did remember that... it is vague today...

So... what you ask seems to be related to what
is called 'the choiceless choice'... that would
encompass 'trust' in the context of your question...

Trust in this context... is surrender... to allow
a 'higher and greater' intelligence to steer my
course... this is how it seems... and I enjoy it
very much... blissfully so...

Yet, I am still responsible... in the sense that
my actions have consequences which I must
account for...

A very wise man said to me, years ago:

"Do not let what is right, deter you from
doing what you must do."

To choose surrender... this is a word we must
explore deeply... surrender with no 'back door'...

For me, it has been 'easy', but maybe I am the
only person who can understand that... I usually
fail when trying to 'explain' this to others...

It seems that to surrender without trust, is something
that is done only at the point of a bayonet...

Or perhaps to surrender, with the intention to
get' something... to make an advancement on
the board-game of spiritual progress...  this too
is bogus...

We should explore 'surrender'... what do you think?

Thanks, Rashmi...


==Gene Poole==

OSS

Norma... welcome!

You wrote:

>It's funny, yet not so funny, that you mention the word "program"....Over the
>past few days, there is a great sense of "programs"......As if the ego, that
>which is believed to be "alive", is nothing more than the infusion of
>programs, biologically instilled....and becomes like a tape that plays on and
>on in the form of identities, until it is cleared...
>
>Norma


Yes... strangely, what you describe, is 'normal' for me...
in the sense that 'personality' is rather... uh... flat and
transparent... like 'bad acting'... and I am fine with that...

I find that just accepting this 'determination' allows
special moments to really stand out... like a moment in
a ball game when the ball is in  motion... everyone lights
up... 'will he/she get it?'... or will there be a fumble...

Anyway... by 'determination' above, I mean... what?

Not 'pre-determined', although it does seem that so
much is just on tracks and never deviates... or rarely
so...

I guess that what is 'determined' as I am using the
word... refers to 'programmed'... 'decided already'...
what some refer to as 'already-always'... as a way
of Being... and thus very predictable...

People use language... as a stabilizer... to keep
things the same... 'already-always'... no surprises...
no wonder for depression, as a side-effect of
a totally predictable life...

And no wonder, for the craving for 'entertainment'...
as relief... novelty... but only of the harmless sort,
of course... as in sentimental vs actual feeling...

Thanks, Norma...

==Gene Poole==

OSS

Norma... welcome!

You wrote:

>It's funny, yet not so funny, that you mention the word "program"....Over the
>past few days, there is a great sense of "programs"......As if the ego, that
>which is believed to be "alive", is nothing more than the infusion of
>programs, biologically instilled....and becomes like a tape that plays on and
>on in the form of identities, until it is cleared...
>
>Norma


Yes... strangely, what you describe, is 'normal' for me...
in the sense that 'personality' is rather... uh... flat and
transparent... like 'bad acting'... and I am fine with that...

I find that just accepting this 'determination' allows
special moments to really stand out... like a moment in
a ball game when the ball is in  motion... everyone lights
up... 'will he/she get it?'... or will there be a fumble...

Anyway... by 'determination' above, I mean... what?

Not 'pre-determined', although it does seem that so
much is just on tracks and never deviates... or rarely
so...

I guess that what is 'determined' as I am using the
word... refers to 'programmed'... 'decided already'...
what some refer to as 'already-always'... as a way
of Being... and thus very predictable...

People use language... as a stabilizer... to keep
things the same... 'already-always'... no surprises...
no wonder for depression, as a side-effect of
a totally predictable life...

And no wonder, for the craving for 'entertainment'...
as relief... novelty... but only of the harmless sort,
of course... as in sentimental vs actual feeling...

Thanks, Norma...

==Gene Poole==

OSS

Greetings, Nina... and welcome!

First, apologies for my lateness in reply to messages
to OSS... Qwest has finally restored my email service...

>Gene, thanks for opening this forum. It looks like a fascinating
>endeavor! A spiritual thesaurus of sorts...

Yes... if we get that far... but the fun is in the trip, yes?

>I agree with eric from NDS that much confusion comes from the
>untracable and sometimes seemingly conflicting language used to
>describe 'the same thing'. Each paradigm has its own language code,
>isolated. Does it do any good to keep banging one over the head with
>the same language? Perhaps, eventually, yes, eventually... but what
>rate and form of understanding may happen if the language is laid out
>as 'just that' and cross-comparison to other language codes is
>promoted? This is getting beyond dogma...

Yes... every language is built of words, and every word has
roots... proto-words, as they are called... primative words
seldom used plain anymore... now all grown up and dressed
in modern regalia... this is one possibility that I have pursued
with some success... to come up from the root of a word, allows
us to more deeply understand the current usages, proper and
otherwise...

>On the topic of the use of language, a funny thing happened the other
>day:
>
>I was in the midst of banging out understanding with another person
>regarding a certain dynamic in our relationship as forced by
>conditioning when this person used the phrase 'ah, that is your
>program'. The only other place I have heard use of the word 'program'
>is NDS, primarily from Gene. That this woman, seemingly separate from
>the world in which I typically hear use of that word, would use that
>word struck me powerfully. In a single word, entire worlds of meaning
>were drawn up. It was as if a secret were being shared out of
>nowhere. She knew the code, and used it (unintentionally?) to unlock
>understanding...

Yes... nice...

No error there... no coincidence... more like deja vu as
revealed in The Matrix the movie... a clue to go deeper...

>I look forward to the fruits of this list, thanks to Gene for
>initiating it, thanks to all who contribute..
>
>warmly,
>Nina

No harm in going deep...

Thanks, Nina...


==Gene Poole==

It's funny, yet not so funny, that you mention the word "program"....Over the
past few days, there is a great sense of "programs"......As if the ego, that
which is believed to be "alive", is nothing more than the infusion of
programs, biologically instilled....and becomes like a tape that plays on and
on in the form of identities, until it is cleared...

Norma

"Are you willing to trust whatever is living you?"

--From "Spirituality Beyond Self Improvement," an audiotape by David
Deida


Rashmi

OSS

Hi Leo...

You wrote...

"netineti01" <recruit@x> wrote:

> Here is a little story on how difficult it can be to point out the
> obvious:-)
>
>
>
> Imagine watching a movie in which two men walk towards you. The
> setting is a dessert, the sun blazing overhead and a huge mountain
> range is visible in the distance.
>
> One of the man stops and says to his companion: "Do you realize
> that
> this is all an illusion? That we are just variations in one single
> light appearing as us, the sun, the sky and the whole landscape?"
> His friend looks puzzled as he continues: " This whole world we
> see
> is a flat screen, which appears as if there is space all around
> us."
> Now his friend gets slightly worried. Perhaps his buddy has been
> affected by the heat and he asks him: "Are you feeling all
> right?." "Absolutely fine! It is suddenly obvious that all
> this, is
> really nothing but a very clever illusion appearing on a single
> background." "Really" says his friend getting slightly
> annoyed "please show me this background" "Well look, here
> it is;
> right here touching us, carrying us, as well as everything we
> see."
> He turns and points to the screen. His friend follows his
> directions, but sees nothing but the far of mountains.
>
>
>
> From:  Awakening To The Dream.
>
>
>
> Enjoy,
>
> Leo

Thanks for this, Leo...

yes... the obvious...

"What is, is...

What is not, is not... "


From:  The Interface; Cool or Burning


==Gene Poole==

Here is a little story on how difficult it can be to point out the
obvious:-)



Imagine watching a movie in which two men walk towards you. The
setting is a dessert, the sun blazing overhead and a huge mountain
range is visible in the distance.

One of the man stops and says to his companion: "Do you realize
that
this is all an illusion? That we are just variations in one single
light appearing as us, the sun, the sky and the whole landscape?"
His friend looks puzzled as he continues: " This whole world we
see
is a flat screen, which appears as if there is space all around
us."
Now his friend gets slightly worried. Perhaps his buddy has been
affected by the heat and he asks him: "Are you feeling all
right?." "Absolutely fine! It is suddenly obvious that all
this, is
really nothing but a very clever illusion appearing on a single
background." "Really" says his friend getting slightly
annoyed "please show me this background" "Well look, here
it is;
right here touching us, carrying us, as well as everything we
see."
He turns and points to the screen. His friend follows his
directions, but sees nothing but the far of mountains.



From:  Awakening To The Dream.



Enjoy,

Leo

Opening Message

Welcome to OSS

Open Source Spirit

Spirituality `in the spirit' of open source…

Hello, I am Gene Poole, listowner and moderator

Here you are welcome to join in the mission of this group,
which is to explore the possibility of coming up with
`open source' deŽnitions of human experiences of what is
generally called `spiritual' or `religious'.

Terms in common use are generally, but not always, derived
directly from certain `proprietary' sources, which are not
open to modiŽcation.

Examples of such terms are `God', `soul', `samadi',
`nirvana', etc.

Our definitions are not restrictive, they are `open',
and thus may be a phrase instead of a single word.

It is possible that a person can have an experience which
is difŽcult to categorize in other than `traditional'
terms, for the reason that there are no other terms
commonly available. We are able to extract the best of any
or all deŽnitions, for the purpose of general clarity and
personal freedom.

In order to expore how such traditional terms may be
openly deŽned, it is necessary that traditional terms be
properly deŽned. It is suggested that at least one
properly quoted and attributed deŽnition of any term be
posted… all such deŽnitions may be added to the `Files'
section of this site:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Open_Source_Spirit/Žles/>

If you decide to post a deŽnition, please give all
attributions, author/title/publisher, and web links in the
beginning of your posting to `Files'.

I am looking forward to having your preferred deŽnitions
shared with this group, and why you prefer a particular
deŽnition. In this way it will be possible to synthesize
or rework deŽnitions into a true `open source' format.

What is `open source'? Take a look at these links… we are
free to carry the `open source' philosophy into the arena
of human spirituality…

<http://www.opensource.org/>

<http://www.opensource.org/docs/deŽnition.php>

<http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.htl>


Please take your time and think about things.


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Thank you for joining and contributing...


==Gene Poole==

OSS list owner and moderator