I agree that =kwe don't *always* indicate "woman/lady" but you need to look at
the word/name as a whole to determine if you're looking at is the =kwe meaning
"woman/lady" or not. In case of names, good majority of the time (my impressions
are over 80% of the time), names ending with =kwe do mean "woman/lady".
Here are some situations with =kwe that may or may not be indicator of
"woman/lady" (and remember that some names are given as verbs, not nouns):

*       XXkw=e (vai) have XX [provided XX portion ends with a " k " and have it
also have " kw " as its root]
*       XXk=we (vai) voice/speak/vocalise XX [provided the XX portion ends with
a " k "]
*       XX=kwe (vai) go XXing for bears
*       XX=kwe+g (na) XX woman/lady/female; woman/lady/female XX
*      XX=akwe (vai) suck XX
*    XX-apakwe (vai) put on a XX roof
*    XX-apakwey+ag (na) XX mat; XX lodge mat; XX cattail [where " y " often
blends in with the preceeding " e " and bearly audible]
* XX-jiibaakwe (vai) cook XX
*     XX=zekwe (vai) cook by XXing
*     XX=mikwe (vai) go XXing beavers
*   XX-minikwe (vai) drink XX
*   XX=aanikwe (vai) have hair that is XX
*    XX=akokwe (vai) go XXing the pot/kettle contents
*     XX=iskwe (vai) go XXing blood
*     XX=shkwe (vai) be quite XX
*     XX=shkwe' (vta) make SB be quite XX [where " ' " isn't audible until you
conjugate the word]
*    XX=ashkwe (vai) go XXing for plants
*  XX=zhashkwe (vai) go XXing for muskrats

Also, not all female names are given the =kwe, and some male names, if one of
the other =kwe-containing situation listed above, will at first appear as though
it is a "woman" =kwe and not some other =kwe situation.

In the original poster's question of the meaning of KIJIKISAWKWE, assuming the
AW is trying to indicate a "aa", that gives us only four scenarios that fit the
given pattern:
XXkw=e (vai), XXk=we (vai), XX=kwe (vai) and XX=kwe (na)

Using /aakw/ (tree/wood/solid) as a possibility for the XXkw=e (vai), I looked
at the types of word that may begin with KIJIKIS and came down to just XX=kwe
(vai) and XX=kwe (na). Then the next question became of the two, which made
sense and XX=kwe (na) was a better fit.

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> when it comes to a fluent individual or person......the meaning
> of kwe does not always refer to women or a woman.......this has
> to be understood.......k my friend
> ________________________________
> From: josephjdonaldson <josephjdonaldson@...>
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 4:58:50 PM
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: KIJIKISAWKWE and Kodje
>
>
> Miigwech  niibowa.
>
> I had a feeling that Kijikisawkwe had something to do with
> woman.  I also was curious if perhaps the beginning might
> have actually been Gichi.  It sounds kind of similar to me.
>
> Your help is much appreciated.
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "jirolippert"
<cjlippert@ ..> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps:
> > * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijigisaakwe: The Jagged Woman
> > ** gijigi= (pv4) == jagged-
> > ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> > ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
> >
> > or perhaps:
> > * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijiigisaakwe: The Peeled Woman
> > ** gijiigi= (pv4) == peeled-, skinned-
> > ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> > ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
> >
> > And then there is also the possibility that KIJI-part of
> > the name is supposed to be giizhi- (pv4) == mature- or
> > gizhii- (pv4) == fast-
> >
> > For the other name, perhaps
> > KODJE ==> Goji` (Test SOMEONE), Goji (Test), Gaachi
> > (Bearly) or that this is only part of a recorded name
> > or a nickname of a much longer name.
> >

very helpful  miigwetch!!

To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
From: cjlippert@...
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 2009 00:24:59 +0000
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: maandigeh




























       maawandinige (vai)(syncoped: maawndinige): to gather, to collect

maawandinigewin (ni)(syncoped: maawndingewin): gathering, collection



Similar words to consider are:



asigindaawidiwag (vai-p)(syncoped: signdaawdiwag): group together with each
other

asigindaawidiwin (ni)(syncoped: signdaawdiwin): group

asiginaage (vai)(syncoped: signaage): gather into a group

asiginaagewin (ni)(syncoped: signaagewin): gathering



or this:



gii-maamawi-maajinaagewag: Together, they were sent away.

(syncope: gii-maamwi-maajnaagewag)



Syncoped form of the words are found in Odaawaamowin and in Eastern Ojibwemowin.



--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Roly Thomas
<ROLYTHOMAS@...> wrote:

>

>

> Ahnii

>

> I am associated with a group intending to provide education

> about residential schools and the results in today's world.

>

> In association with this I would appreciate translation /

> interpretation of "maandigeh". I understand it to be "a

> gathering"  (of people / informal)

>

> any help will be appreciated

>

> Ch'miigwetch

>

> ishkodekaahn

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail
you.

> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>


















_________________________________________________________________
Ready. Set. Get a great deal on Windows 7. See fantastic deals on Windows 7 now
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691818

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That really depends on the focus of the "law" you're speaking about.
* /onasho=/ words deal with the idea of issuance
* /onaako=/ words deal with the idea of decision

Consequently, for the word meaning "law":
* onashowewin (Northern spelling: onahshowewin) applies to laws based on edicts,
judge's orders, order writs or other promulgations.
* onaakonigewin (Northern spelling: onaahkonikewin) applies to laws based on
court precedence, jury decisions, legislators' and councillors' decisions and
case laws.

Here are examples of each type of words:
/onasho=/ words --
* onashom (vta) command SB
* onashowaadan (vti) council ST; tell ST what to do
* onashowaazh (vta) council SB; tell SB what to do
* onashowaanigoowin+an judgement
* onashowaanim (vta) judge SB
* onashowediiwigamigoons House of Commons
* onashowewigimaa+g judge
* onashowewi-mazina'igan+an bill
* onashowewin+an law

/onaako=/ words --
* onaakon (vta) decide about SB; decide on SB; reach a decision on SB; judge SB
* onaakonamaw (vta) decide about TH for SB; decide on TH for SB; judge TH for
SB; make a law for SB; make a regulation for SB; reach a decision on TH for SB
* onaakonan (vti) decide on ST; reach a decision on ST; plan on ST
* onaakonigaade (vii) be decided
* onaakonige (vai) make appointments; be in court (of judgement); judge TH; make
laws; make regulations
* onaakonigewin+ag judge; scribe; appointment; decree; judgement; law [legal];
lawgiving
* onaakonigewinens+an decision
* onaakonigewininaan+an constitution
* onaakonigoowin+an judgement

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "donc" <nimkii4@...>
wrote:
>
> Stephanie, I have two Ojibwe words for law.  One is
> Onahshowewin and the other is Onaahkonikewin
> I hope this helps.
>
> Makade Nimkii.
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Fitzgerald"
<nehiyo@> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone happen to know the traditional Ojibwe word for
> > "law"?    I would greatly appreciate the information for a
> > model tribal court project I'm working on.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Stephanie

naazikodaadiwigamig: meeting-house
(naw-zikko-daw-diwwy-gummick)

naazikodaadiwigaan: meeting-lodge
(naw-zikko-daw-diwwy-gone)

In both cases "meeting" can also be translated as "reunion," "coming together,"
or "approach each other"

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "baillie3@..."
<baillie3@...> wrote:
>
> A lot of friends and family come to our cottage to visit. I
> would like to make a small sign to put on the outside of the
> cottage that reads  " MEETING  PLACE ". Can some one please
> tell me how to say this in Ojibwa.  I want to have a sign
> that is unique and will start up conversations and i think
> that the Ojibwa words are very interesting.  Thank you.
> Doug
>

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "Stephanie Fitzgerald"
<nehiyo@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone happen to know the traditional Ojibwe word for "law"?    I would
> greatly appreciate the information for a model tribal court project I'm
> working on.
>
> Thanks,
> Stephanie


Stephanie, I have two Ojibwe words for law.  One is Onahshowewin and the other
is Onaahkonikewin

I hope this helps.

Makade Nimkii.

maawandinige (vai)(syncoped: maawndinige): to gather, to collect
maawandinigewin (ni)(syncoped: maawndingewin): gathering, collection

Similar words to consider are:

asigindaawidiwag (vai-p)(syncoped: signdaawdiwag): group together with each
other
asigindaawidiwin (ni)(syncoped: signdaawdiwin): group
asiginaage (vai)(syncoped: signaage): gather into a group
asiginaagewin (ni)(syncoped: signaagewin): gathering

or this:

gii-maamawi-maajinaagewag: Together, they were sent away.
(syncope: gii-maamwi-maajnaagewag)

Syncoped form of the words are found in Odaawaamowin and in Eastern Ojibwemowin.

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Roly Thomas
<ROLYTHOMAS@...> wrote:
>
>
> Ahnii
>
> I am associated with a group intending to provide education
> about residential schools and the results in today's world.
>
> In association with this I would appreciate translation /
> interpretation of "maandigeh". I understand it to be "a
> gathering"  (of people / informal)
>
> any help will be appreciated
>
> Ch'miigwetch
>
> ishkodekaahn
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail
you.
> http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "baillie3@..."
<baillie3@...> wrote:
>
> A lot of friends and family come to our cottage to visit. I would like to make
a small sign to put on the outside of the cottage that reads  " MEETING  PLACE
". Can some one please tell me how to say this in Ojibwa.  I want to have a sign
that is unik and will start up conversations and i think that the Ojibwa words
are very interestng.  Thank you.      Doug
>

Doug,

You could possibly use maawanjigamig.   maawanji=meeting gamig=place.

Hope this helps.

Makade Nimkii.

when it comes to a fluent individual or person......the meaning of kwe does not
always refer to women or a woman.......this has to be understood.......k my
friend


________________________________
From: josephjdonaldson <josephjdonaldson@...>
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 4:58:50 PM
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: KIJIKISAWKWE and Kodje


Miigwech  niibowa.

I had a feeling that Kijikisawkwe had something to do with woman.  I also was
curious if perhaps the beginning might have actually been Gichi.  It sounds kind
of similar to me.

Your help is much appreciated.

--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "jirolippert"
<cjlippert@. ..> wrote:
>
> Perhaps:
> * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijigisaakwe: The Jagged Woman
> ** gijigi= (pv4) == jagged-
> ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
>
> or perhaps:
> * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijiigisaakwe: The Peeled Woman
> ** gijiigi= (pv4) == peeled-, skinned-
> ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
>
> And then there is also the possibility that KIJI-part of the name is supposed
to be giizhi- (pv4) == mature- or gizhii- (pv4) == fast-
>
> For the other name, perhaps
> KODJE ==> Goji` (Test SOMEONE), Goji (Test), Gaachi (Bearly) or that this is
only part of a recorded name or a nickname of a much longer name.
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A lot of friends and family come to our cottage to visit. I would like to make a
small sign to put on the outside of the cottage that reads  " MEETING  PLACE ".
Can some one please tell me how to say this in Ojibwa.  I want to have a sign
that is unik and will start up conversations and i think that the Ojibwa words
are very interestng.  Thank you.      Doug

Ahnii

I am associated with a group intending to provide education about residential
schools and the results in today's world.

In association with this I would appreciate translation / interpretation of
"maandigeh". I understand it to be "a gathering"  (of people / informal)

any help will be appreciated

Ch'miigwetch

ishkodekaahn

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Friends get your Flickr, Yelp, and Digg updates when they e-mail
you.
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9691817

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aaniin.

I noticed that I didn't explain some of the words I used...since this is a
language site, and some people might not be familiar with some of those words, I
should follow my own advice.  I apologize if my writing style seems to be "too
much" in some ways; it's not on purpose, that's just my way of writing.

The first word is "e-nenda-gikendang" -- that's supposed to mean a student,
someone who is seeking knowledge...another form would be "e-nayaanda-gikendang",
and the difference between them is that the "nenda-" form has a 'hypothetical'
meaning, while the "nayaanda-" form has a 'real' meaning.  The thing is, I don't
know all the ins 'n' outs involved, so I don't know which would be the proper
form in this case.

Then then was "gi-jiid" means "your bum", and is one way of calling someone a
jerk.

"Chief Obwandiyag" is, of course, the famous Chief Pontiac; since he is no
longer here and gone forever, I should have called him Chief Obwandiyagiban.

"Naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be bizaan-ayaan)
ombiigiziyan" means "[either] help us or be quiet [and] shut up" (the way I
learned it was 'bekwaayaan', but the standard form would be 'bizaan-ayaan', I
think)...by the way, 'maagizhaa' also means 'maybe'.

"Wemitigoozhi" means "Frenchy"; it comes from 'we' or 'wewe', 'to shake':  the
French priests used to 'shake' a wooden stick (= cross) at the People.

"Wemitigoozhish" means something like "you lousy Frenchy", and "niniwish" means
something like "you lousy bum".

My apologies to anyone who might have been offended at anything I
wrote...sometimes, I'm too direct; I don't mean to be rude, it just comes out
that way.  It should be clear, I'm far from perfect.

Mii i'iw.
Dany/Wemitigoozhi


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@...> wrote:
>
> I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as
if you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?
>
> Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you
go to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):
>
> Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
> I'm going to town in order to buy food.
>
> Here's another one from the same source:
>
> 1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
> 1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station
3), in order to fill it up?
>
> I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should
that be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's
it, just talk, no action.
>
> Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.
>
> On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?
>
> I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).
>
> Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
> If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.
>
>
> Mii i'iw sa gwa.
> From wemitigoozhish to niniwish
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@> wrote:
> >
> > hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
> >
> > mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi
ish
> >
> > --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@> wrote:
> >
> > From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@>
> > Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> > To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
> >
> > The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a
VAI verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
> >
> > It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
> >
> > The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
> >
> > In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
> >
> > You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
> >
> > There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
> >
> >
> >
> > gr, Kees.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Aanii, niijidog.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"--
but what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
> >
> > > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
> >
> > > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Not quite true in Anishinaabemowin. Yes, in that Anishinaabemowin have
* "n == 1" (singular) and "n == ~1" (plural), but also
* "n' == 1" (singular) and "n' == ~1" (plural), where "n /= n'"
and in speaking of nouns and pronouns, two additional series to the above.

First, you need to distinguish grammatical gender (is the word you are trying to
make into a plural "animate" or "inanimate"?)

Second, you need to distinguish if we are speaking about a topical plural (known
as "proximate") or an atopical plural (known as "obviative")

Third, you need to distinguish if we are speaking about verbs or nouns and
pronouns (as this will lead to very different plural-making outcomes).
* If nouns and pronouns, the first two steps will handle the correct plural
form.
* If verbs, as verbs need to agree with the nouns and pronouns, your next
questions are:
** what is the verb's transitivity?, i.e. is it intransitive or transitive?
** who are the involved actors/recipients? If a first person plural is involved,
as there is only one first person singular but two different first person
plurals (one inclusive of a second person, one exclusive of a second person),
and is not just a simple plural schema.
** are the involved actors/recipients in the main sentence or in a subordinate
clause (as this will force different series of plurals)
** which way the action is happening (i.e., action instigated by the actor or
action instigated to the actor (in a role reversal))?
** is the verb being transformed into a noun? If so, in what relationship to the
topic? (this will produce yet another different series of plural forms)

For the noun and pronoun, let's pick on a word that can be both.
* mitig (n3) >> mitigoog (n3p)
* mitigoon (n3') >> mitigoo' (n3'p)
* mitig (n0) >> mitigoon (n0p)
* mitigoon (n0') >> mitigoon (n0'p)
where
* n := noun
* 0 := inanimate
* 3 := animate
* ' := obviative (where "proximate" assumed unless "obviative")
* p := plural (where "singular" assumed unless "plural")
(make matter even more confusing, this pattern DOES NOT HOLD TRUE in all
dialects!)

To further complicate matters, there is another set of question one must ask to
choose the correct plural form, which is "what is the word root?" as this will
change the choice of vowels used in plural suffix, and again not all dialects
have identical roots for the same word.

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Tony Yarusso
<tonyyarusso@...> wrote:
>
> Hi, I'm looking for an authoritative description of the plural
> forms present in Ojibwe for a computer-aided translation tool.
> As far as I know, the plural forms of Ojibwe are similar to
> English, with one form for n equal to 1, and another for n not
> equal to 1 (including zero), but I wanted to get confirmation or
> correction of that.  I've included the text of what I'm supposed to
> answer below, and would greatly appreciate any insight you can
> offer!
> -----------------------------------------
>
> The plural form information is to handle correctly the plurals
> in your language. You can read more about it here:
>
>
http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_chapter/gettext_10.html#Plural-f\
orms
>
> As a summary, the rules we need to define are related with the
> number of objects/things/persons you are talking about, for
> instance, in English we have:
>     * 0 items
>     * 1 item
>     * 2 items
>     * 3 items
>     * ...
>     * n item(s)
> With that, we get that only when n == 1 is singular and when n !=
> 1, it's plural. In this case, the plural form expression is: "n==1 ? 0 :
> 1" and the gettext's nplurals value == 2.
>   In a non programming language, "n==1 ? 0 : 1" means:
>   If 'n' is 1, then use the first entry, otherwise, use the second.
> 'n' is the number of items and usually, in computer programming we
> start counting with '0' instead of '1'.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>
> Tony Yarusso
>

Hi, I'm looking for an authoritative description of the plural forms
present in Ojibwe for a computer-aided translation tool.  As far as I
know, the plural forms of Ojibwe are similar to English, with one form
for n equal to 1, and another for n not equal to 1 (including zero),
but I wanted to get confirmation or correction of that.  I've included
the text of what I'm supposed to answer below, and would greatly
appreciate any insight you can offer!

-----------------------------------------

The plural form information is to handle correctly the plurals in your
language. You can read more about it here:

http://www.gnu.org/software/gettext/manual/html_chapter/gettext_10.html#Plural-f\
orms

  As a summary, the rules we need to define are related with the number
of objects/things/persons you are talking about, for instance, in
English we have:
     * 0 items
     * 1 item
     * 2 items
     * 3 items
     * ...
     * n item(s)
   With that, we get that only when n == 1 is singular and when n != 1,
it's plural. In this case, the plural form expression is: "n==1 ? 0 :
1" and the gettext's nplurals value == 2.
   In a non programming language, "n==1 ? 0 : 1" means:
   If 'n' is 1, then use the first entry, otherwise, use the second.
'n' is the number of items and usually, in computer programming we
start counting with '0' instead of '1'.

----------------------------------------

Tony Yarusso

Miigwech  niibowa.

I had a feeling that Kijikisawkwe had something to do with woman.  I also was
curious if perhaps the beginning might have actually been Gichi.  It sounds kind
of similar to me.

Your help is much appreciated.

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "jirolippert"
<cjlippert@...> wrote:
>
> Perhaps:
> * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijigisaakwe: The Jagged Woman
> ** gijigi= (pv4) == jagged-
> ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
>
> or perhaps:
> * KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijiigisaakwe: The Peeled Woman
> ** gijiigi= (pv4) == peeled-, skinned-
> ** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
> ** =kwe (na)(final) == woman
>
> And then there is also the possibility that KIJI-part of the name is supposed
to be giizhi- (pv4) == mature- or gizhii- (pv4) == fast-
>
> For the other name, perhaps
> KODJE ==> Goji` (Test SOMEONE), Goji (Test), Gaachi (Bearly) or that this is
only part of a recorded name or a nickname of a much longer name.
>

Perhaps:
* KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijigisaakwe: The Jagged Woman
** gijigi= (pv4) == jagged-
** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
** =kwe (na)(final) == woman

or perhaps:
* KIJIKISAWKWE ==> Gijiigisaakwe: The Peeled Woman
** gijiigi= (pv4) == peeled-, skinned-
** =saa (vii)(final) == be XX
** =kwe (na)(final) == woman

And then there is also the possibility that KIJI-part of the name is supposed to
be giizhi- (pv4) == mature- or gizhii- (pv4) == fast-

For the other name, perhaps
KODJE ==> Goji` (Test SOMEONE), Goji (Test), Gaachi (Bearly) or that this is
only part of a recorded name or a nickname of a much longer name.

FYI,
Weshki-ayaad have moved her page contents to:
http://weshki.atwebpages.com/index.html
QbD


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "Qorach ben Dan"
<cjlippert@...> wrote:
>
> There are many.
> Since First-Ojibwe.net is now down, Weshki-ayaad have moved
> her page contents to http://weshki.googlepages.com.  At
> http://weshki.googlepages.com/dicts.html there is a link to the
> Freelang Ojibwe (that link is also found at the OLS Miinawaa's
> Homepage as one of the banners), but at her page, you will find
> a link for the replacement English-Ojibwe module as Freelang
> Dictionary unpacking routine auto-generates the English-Ojibwe
> module from the Ojibwe-English module and drops several thousand
> entries in that process. In addition, her
> http://weshki.googlepages.com/links.html
> page have many, many links as a resource.
> However, still the best way to learn is not digitally, but
> rather in person.
> QbD
>

My family is doing some genealogy research and I came across the above two
names.  Does anyone know what they may mean? The would be from the area of North
Bay Ontario and the Nippising First Nations Reservation.

Thanks

I've tried thinking of the right way to answer you, and this is what I've come
up with.
 
If I say that I don't understand a lot, that I'm only learning and you write to
me and don't say what the words mean, then that tells me that you don't really
want to talk...you just want to try to pick little arguments.
 
What a waste of time and energy; you might have time for that, but I don't.
 
If you don't say what your words mean, there's no proper way to respond to them.
The only thing to respond to is the situation, and that means ignoring your
meaningless little jabs...which means ignoring you.
 
Instead of provoking strangers for no good reason, you should use this site to
try to help your own people with your own language. If you can't get that, then
no amount of reasoning will help...not because it's my idea, because it can help
your people.
 
If you don't understand that, then working on words or spelling is the least of
your problems.
 
This is the last time I'll be writing to you directly--you might like games, but
me, I have a life.
 

--- On Mon, 11/2/09, Daniel Big George <xxxda_george007@...> wrote:


From: Daniel Big George <xxxda_george007@...>
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 2, 2009, 6:12 PM


 



so if it is JISAKIIWIN or is it CHISAKIIWIN. .....der mr ojibwe wemitigozhi- ish

____________ _________ _________ __
From: danyriopelle <danyriopelle@ yahoo.com>
To: OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 8:08:12 PM
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSoci etyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else: why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooya an?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendan g?) What about you? You like to talk, but that's it, just
talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear' s
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker: prove it instead of
flapping your gums.) If you don't know which question, it's #8499. I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing: typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do. As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right? If not, find a dictionary and look it up. Among other
things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native people
that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came that
close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost completely
eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North America. But
that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was, don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there. For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means: at least have the
balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.

Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish

--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@ ...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi. ........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSoci etyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag. He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it can be said both ways der mr ojibwe wemitigozhi.........kaapisho......

--- On Wed, 10/28/09, Daniel Big George <xxxda_george007@...> wrote:

From: Daniel Big George <xxxda_george007@...>
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 28, 2009, 4:34 PM






 





                   hey DANY wemitigoozhi. ........what does JI mean in da ojibwe
language and answer me 2



mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish



--- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@hotmail. com> wrote:



From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@hotmail. com>

Subject: [OjibweLanguageSoci etyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

To: OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM



 



I regret that my answer must be incomplete.



The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.



It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike personal
endings.



The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.



In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).



You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".



There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)



gr, Kees.



--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:



>



> Aanii, niijidog.



>



> Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.



>



> In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree published
by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario (http://www.edu.
gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be found at the top
of page 46:



>



> Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.



>



> My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.



>



> "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?



> Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?



> If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for its
paradigm.



>



> Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa



>























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

so if it is JISAKIIWIN or is it CHISAKIIWIN......der mr ojibwe wemitigozhi-ish




________________________________
From: danyriopelle <danyriopelle@...>
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, October 31, 2009 8:08:12 PM
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin


I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooya an?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendan g?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear' s
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.

Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish

--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@ ...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi. ........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_ sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSoci etyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

i can out talk dan jones anytime and you can ask him or say that to
him........and by all means do so plz.......gichibaakwaakotomiigwech




________________________________
From: "jlwhitebird@..." <jlwhitebird@...>
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 9:07:01 AM
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

U up on tha anishaanabamowin table wit dan jones out tja fdl college u betta
know what book u cummin outta. Can't correct a sentance if u commin from some
where other thanojibwemowin!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: jlwhitebird@...
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 07:42:47
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

What up though
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "danyriopelle" <danyriopelle@...>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 01:08:12
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.


Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.      He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Mii gwech

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Mii gwech

Yahoo! Groups Links






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

what does japanese have to with ojibwemowin.....i have to understand this 1st



________________________________
From: jirolippert <cjlippert@...>
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 6:22:00 PM
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: Can you help with these sentences
Please Daga....


Boozhoo allwaysgreatbear:

What did you actually try to say in Anishinaabemowin?
Though I think I would have used "moozhag" instead of "apane", I really doubt
that would cause the reaction you saw, so knowing what you said may be helpful.

A good example in Japanese is that often people who learn Japanese get "okosu"
(be awaken) with "okasu" (be violated) mixed up, so instead of "I was awaken in
the middle of the night", the speaker may misspeak and say "I was violated in
the middle of the night"... which tends to stop all conversation. Maybe you
experienced the Ojibwemowin parallel to this.

So, instead of having us guess what you really said, please share what you said,
and then from there we can figure out what you ought to have said.

QbD

--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "allwaysgreatbear"
<allwaysgreatbear@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, Aaniin... Well, I have been venturing to talk to someone and I am kind
of stumped... We have very friendly conversations, but one instance stumped
me... I was trying to say: I always see him at his daughter's house. He likes
her cooking. I think she is a good cook.  In the first sentence I used "apane"
and pronounced it ah-pa-NE -- I got only a sort of bemused look and a change in
topic... Maybe I messed up the endings for what would be "possesive" in Eng.
i.e. his daughter's, her cooking...
> Can someone help me with what should have been said... I have not been able to
bring up the topic in any natural way in order to try again. Too, maybe the
pronunciation and placement of the time Adv. was wrong. Any Ideas?? Maybe my
friend was just so confused by what I said that he gave up and just changed the
topic -- or maybe he doesn't like her cooking.... Most folk here do.... Mii
gwech for any help you might offer..
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Boozhoo allwaysgreatbear:

What did you actually try to say in Anishinaabemowin?
Though I think I would have used "moozhag" instead of "apane", I really doubt
that would cause the reaction you saw, so knowing what you said may be helpful.

A good example in Japanese is that often people who learn Japanese get "okosu"
(be awaken) with "okasu" (be violated) mixed up, so instead of "I was awaken in
the middle of the night", the speaker may misspeak and say "I was violated in
the middle of the night"... which tends to stop all conversation. Maybe you
experienced the Ojibwemowin parallel to this.

So, instead of having us guess what you really said, please share what you said,
and then from there we can figure out what you ought to have said.

QbD

--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, "allwaysgreatbear"
<allwaysgreatbear@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all, Aaniin... Well, I have been venturing to talk to someone and I am kind
of stumped... We have very friendly conversations, but one instance stumped
me... I was trying to say: I always see him at his daughter's house. He likes
her cooking. I think she is a good cook.  In the first sentence I used "apane"
and pronounced it ah-pa-NE -- I got only a sort of bemused look and a change in
topic... Maybe I messed up the endings for what would be "possesive" in Eng.
i.e. his daughter's, her cooking...
> Can someone help me with what should have been said... I have not been able to
bring up the topic in any natural way in order to try again. Too, maybe the
pronunciation and placement of the time Adv. was wrong. Any Ideas?? Maybe my
friend was just so confused by what I said that he gave up and just changed the
topic -- or maybe he doesn't like her cooking.... Most folk here do.... Mii
gwech for any help you might offer..
>

U up on tha anishaanabamowin table wit dan jones out tja fdl college u betta
know what book u cummin outta. Can't correct a sentance if u commin from some
where other thanojibwemowin!
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: jlwhitebird@...
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 07:42:47
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

What up though
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "danyriopelle" <danyriopelle@...>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 01:08:12
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.


Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Mii gwech

Yahoo! Groups Links

Call me we need to talk
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: jlwhitebird@...
Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2009 07:42:47
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

What up though
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "danyriopelle" <danyriopelle@...>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 01:08:12
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.


Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Mii gwech

Yahoo! Groups Links

What up though
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: "danyriopelle" <danyriopelle@...>
Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 01:08:12
To: <OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.


Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think ji--maybe you say chi, I don't know--means "so that, in order to" (as if
you didn't know), but maybe it means something else:  why don't you tell me?

Here's an example from Weshki's Anishinaabemowin Ojibwe Language Site (if you go
to the site, you'll see that's how it's listed, so if you want to correct me,
make sure it's about something I really said or did, not just you blowing hot
air):

Oodenaang niwii-izhaa miijim ji-adaaweyaan.
I'm going to town in order to buy food.

Here's another one from the same source:

1), Aaniinapii waa-nanaa'itooyan nindoodaabaan 2), ji-izhaayaan waasamobimide
adaawewiwgamigong 3), ji-mooshkinebadooyaan?
1), When are you going to fix my car 2), so that I can go to the gas station 3),
in order to fill it up?

I've never claimed to be anyone other than an e-nenda-gikendang (or should that
be e-nayaanda-gikendang?)  What about you?  You like to talk, but that's it,
just talk, no action.

Why don't you do something useful for a change and answer allwaysgreatbear's
question (if you can...you say you're a First Speaker:  prove it instead of
flapping your gums.)  If you don't know which question, it's #8499.  I've been
waiting to see if you were going to help him, and so far, nothing:  typical.

On the other hand, maybe 'ji' is an abbreviation for 'gi-jiid', but that's for
you to say--you know yourself better than I do.  As for me, you do know what
wemitigoozhi means, right?  If not, find a dictionary and look it up.  Among
other things, you might find that the wemitigoozhiwag were the only non-Native
people that the great chief Obwandiyag was willing to spare back when he came
that close to causing the destruction of Fort Detroit, after having almost
completely eliminated non-Native military powers in British-controlled North
America.  But that's history; by the way, you do know who Chief Obwandiyag was,
don't you?

I'm not going to make this about how much Native blood makes one a Native, and
I'm not going to let you make me go there.  For some people, there are those who
are full-blooded Natives and there are the rest of the people on Turtle
Island...for others, it has less to do with a genetic percentage and more to do
with culture (talked to any Métis lately, Bruddah?).

Bottom line is, naadamawishinaam maagizhaa bekwaayaan (or should that be
bizaan-ayaan) ombiigiziyan.
If you have any other questions for me, like what 'naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan'
means, you can answer them yourself, since you're the expert...after all, you
still haven't told me what the last message you sent me means:  at least have
the balls to share the meanings of the words with everyone.


Mii i'iw sa gwa.
From wemitigoozhish to niniwish


--- In OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Big George
<xxxda_george007@...> wrote:
>
> hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and
answer me 2
>
> mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish
>
> --- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:
>
> From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
> Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
> To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.
>
> The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.
>
> It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike
personal endings.
>
> The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.
>
> In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).
>
> You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".
>
> There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)
>
>
>
> gr, Kees.
>
>
>
> --- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Aanii, niijidog.
>
> >
>
> > Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.
>
> >
>
> > In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree
published by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario
(http://www.edu. gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be
found at the top of page 46:
>
> >
>
> > Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.
>
> >
>
> > My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.
>
> >
>
> > "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?
>
> > Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?
>
> > If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for
its paradigm.
>
> >
>
> > Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

"manoomin" a book about wild rice harvest teaches children about wild rice the
culture the language and is very entertaining at the same time.
Only a small handful of books were made and i dont plan to make anymore so
miigwech to all, gigawaabamin miinawaa
j.whitebird

BOOKS AND SAMPLE PAGE AND MORE AT http://www.whitebirdbooks.com

if i was saying.......naa-a'-we-di baakwezhigan.........what am i really saying?
can you answer that DANY the mr.ojibwe language dude wemitigoozhi

--- On Wed, 10/14/09, danyriopelle <danyriopelle@...> wrote:

From: danyriopelle <danyriopelle@...>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 14, 2009, 3:10 PM






 





                   Aanii, niijidog.



Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.



In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree published
by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario (http://www.edu.
gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be found at the top
of page 46:



Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.



My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.



"Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?

Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?

If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for its
paradigm.



Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hey DANY wemitigoozhi.........what does JI mean in da ojibwe language and answer
me 2

mr.perfect ojibwe .......ima ryte .....ryte der ........wem mi ti goo zhi ish

--- On Thu, 10/15/09, Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...> wrote:

From: Kees van Kolmeschate <kolmeschate_sr@...>
Subject: [OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa] Re: '-Wag'-gagwedwewin
To: OjibweLanguageSocietyMiinawaa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 15, 2009, 5:32 PM






 





                   I regret that my answer must be incomplete.

The form "nagamowag" is from the relational paradigm, in this case from a VAI
verb ; a relational paradign also exist for VTI verbs.

It is recognized by the suffix -w- which is followed by VTA look-alike personal
endings.

The meaning of a relational form is that yet another third person is somehow
involved.

In this case that I am not requested to sing a song for the one who made the
request, but for any (other) person(s).

You will perhaps not find many examples of relational verb forms in Ojibwe,
though John Nichols mentions a few relational endings (which he call "relative"
and not "relational" ) in Maude Kegg's "Portage Lake".

There are a lot more articles on relational verb forms in Cree (e.g. in East
Cree, as documented by Marie-Odile Junker)



gr, Kees.



--- In OjibweLanguageSocie tyMiinawaa@ yahoogroups. com, "danyriopelle"
<danyriopelle@ ...> wrote:

>

> Aanii, niijidog.

>

> Gego gwa ni-wii-gagwedwe.

>

> In a resource guide on teaching sentence patterns in Ojibwe and Cree published
by the Ministry of Education for the Province of Ontario (http://www.edu.
gov.on.ca/ eng/document/ curricul/ ojibwe.pdf), this is to be found at the top
of page 46:

>

> Ninandawenimig ji-nagamowag.   He wants me to sing.

>

> My question is about why it wouldn't be "Ninandawenimig ji-nagamoyaan. "
instead.

>

> "Ninandawenimig" is clear enough--"he or she wants me to do something"-- but
what about "ji-nagamowag" ?

> Is this an example of the dubitative mode or more of a regional thing?

> If it is the dubitative, maybe someone could let me know where to look for its
paradigm.

>

> Dany/Wemitigoozhi sa

>































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]