Shorter days
are bringing cooler evenings;
crickets chirp,
and with dwindling sunlight
my eyelids grow heavy.

Rick



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A very enlightened response, poet friend.


--- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, Shin02143@... wrote:
>
> Thank you, Kigen. I was more thinking of the Pure Land in the West
> when I wrote the last line. I am not familiar with the koan tradition
>
> except at a superficial observer. :) 
>
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@...>
> To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 8:26 pm
> Subject: [Mountain-Home] Frail Not Old - Two Poets
>

>
> Saito, Mokichi, b. 1882
>
>
>
> You water spider
>
> against the streaming current
>
> skating upstream --
>
> your vigorousness, oh,
>
> although it is a faint thing.
>
>
>
> Mikiko Nakagawa b. 1887
>
>
>
> In the darkened fields
>
> the very faintly burning
>
> lights of the houses --
>
> ah, they are more frail even
>
> than the glowing of fireflies.
>
>
> ___ ___ ___
>
> from Anthology of Modern Japanese Poetry
>
> translated and compiled by Edith Macombe Shiffert
>
> and Yuki Sawa, 1972
>

>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thank you, Kigen. I was more thinking of the Pure Land in the West
when I wrote the last line. I am not familiar with the koan tradition

except at a superficial observer. :) 




Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@...>
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 8:26 pm
Subject: [Mountain-Home] Frail Not Old - Two Poets





























I came across two Japanese tanka about things frail but not old, and I thought
it was a nice counterpoint to the theme of aging. The first by a man, the second
by a woman. Comments Welcome!  Rick, I want to tell you also what a fine waka
you sent. The fanning intrigues me -- does it allude to the koan on Buddha
Nature?



Saito, Mokichi, b. 1882



You water spider

against the streaming current

skating upstream --

your vigorousness, oh,

although it is a faint thing.



Mikiko Nakagawa b. 1887



In the darkened fields

the very faintly burning

lights of the houses --

ah, they are more frail even

than the glowing of fireflies.



___ ___ ___

from Anthology of Modern Japanese Poetry

translated and compiled by Edith Macombe Shiffert

and Yuki Sawa, 1972






































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you, Donna, "flicker" works better than "flickering."



Rick

Fanning myself
in the crushing evening heat;
fireflies flicker
as the full moon rises
and my thoughts turn westward.




-----Original Message-----
From: donna ferrell <dfer268@...>
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 8:22 pm
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Summer heat





























Rick,

 I like this.

 I wonder if you might try just "flicker" instead of "flickering."  I think it
sounds better especially since there are already 3 "ing's" in the first 2
lines.

 

Donna



--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...> wrote:



From: Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...>

Subject: [Mountain-Home] Summer heat

To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 8:42 AM



 



Fanning myself

in the crushing evening heat;



fireflies flickering



as the full moon rises



and my thoughts turn westward.



Rick



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



__________________________________________________

Do You Yahoo!?

Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around

http://mail.yahoo.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I came across two Japanese tanka about things frail but not old, and I thought
it was a nice counterpoint to the theme of aging. The first by a man, the second
by a woman. Comments Welcome!  Rick, I want to tell you also what a fine waka
you sent. The fanning intrigues me -- does it allude to the koan on Buddha
Nature?

Saito, Mokichi, b. 1882

You water spider
against the streaming current
skating upstream --
your vigorousness, oh,
although it is a faint thing.


Mikiko Nakagawa b. 1887

In the darkened fields
the very faintly burning
lights of the houses --
ah, they are more frail even
than the glowing of fireflies.

___ ___ ___
from Anthology of Modern Japanese Poetry
translated and compiled by Edith Macombe Shiffert
and Yuki Sawa, 1972

Rick,
 I like this.
 I wonder if you might try just "flicker" instead of "flickering."  I think it
sounds better especially since there are already 3 "ing's" in the first 2 lines.
 
Donna



--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...> wrote:


From: Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...>
Subject: [Mountain-Home] Summer heat
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 8:42 AM


 



Fanning myself
in the crushing evening heat;

fireflies flickering

as the full moon rises

and my thoughts turn westward.

Rick

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fanning myself
in the crushing evening heat;

fireflies flickering

as the full moon rises

and my thoughts turn westward.




Rick




























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Donna,
Thank you for the suggestions.  After I posted it I realized that it was
probably too busy with elements, so I do agree with you.  I also discovered that
I used the word 'under' twice.  So have fixed that, too.  Here's a revision that
could perhaps speak on the topic of menopause that Sarah brought up.  When I see
the young rabbits I think of motherhood but more so of youth.  I'm glad they're
getting use out my kayak, which like me, is aging and not getting proper
exercise.


Late August morning
in the tall, damp grasses,
young rabbits graze--
their nest under the kayak
aging and ashore for years.

Bette.



--- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, donna ferrell <dfer268@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for sharing, Bette. I liked your first one very much.
>  
> This one I think has a little too much in it so that it becomes distracting..
I think the lilies at the end become too much. My mind is visualized on the
unused kayak and how it is providing a haven for new life and then suddenly, I
am taken from that thought to visualize lilies. I'm wondering if putting
something like "by the tall blades" or re-focusing on part of some image that is
already there in the waka would help.
>  
> Donna
>
> Mountain-Home Workshop Pages
> http://modwaka0.tripod.com
> Modern Waka's 100 verse sequence page
> http://modwaka.tripod.com
> Hokku-Inn's pages
> http://hokku0.tripod.com
>
> --- On Sat, 8/22/09, bettewappner <bettewappner@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: bettewappner <bettewappner@...>
> Subject: [Mountain-Home] In late August grass
> To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:19 PM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> In late August grass
> under the old apple tree,
> young rabbits graze--
> their nest under the kayak
> ashore for years by the lilies.
>
> Bette.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thanks for sharing, Bette. I liked your first one very much.
 
This one I think has a little too much in it so that it becomes distracting.. I
think the lilies at the end become too much. My mind is visualized on the unused
kayak and how it is providing a haven for new life and then suddenly, I am taken
from that thought to visualize lilies. I'm wondering if putting something like
"by the tall blades" or re-focusing on part of some image that is already there
in the waka would help.
 
Donna

Mountain-Home Workshop Pages
http://modwaka0.tripod.com
Modern Waka's 100 verse sequence page
http://modwaka.tripod.com
Hokku-Inn's pages
http://hokku0.tripod.com

--- On Sat, 8/22/09, bettewappner <bettewappner@...> wrote:


From: bettewappner <bettewappner@...>
Subject: [Mountain-Home] In late August grass
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, August 22, 2009, 2:19 PM


 



In late August grass
under the old apple tree,
young rabbits graze--
their nest under the kayak
ashore for years by the lilies.

Bette.



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In late August grass
under the old apple tree,
young rabbits graze--
their nest under the kayak
ashore for years by the lilies.

Bette.

Since springtime,
abandoned weeds have grown,
hiding summer blossoms--
though wild vines cling to the house
they provide shade and solace.


Bette.

Kigen,
This verse is very lovely.
Thank you for sharing it and for inspiring.
Bette.


--- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, "kigen_photos" <ewmasters@...> wrote:
>
> The river's breadth
> is narrowed by abundant
> water hyacinths
> too late for flowering but
> green and profoundly quiet.
>
> by Takaori Taeko
>
> Just to note that this was originally published
> in Anthology of Modern Japanese Poetry,
> translated and compiled by Edith M. Shiffert
> & Yuki Sawa, Charles E. Tuttle, 1972
> though it is quoted in the book on menopause
> I mentioned.
>
> Thanks again Donna for renewing Mountain Home
> and thanks for our exquisite form of Modern Waka,
> which I love very, very, much.
>
> I'll make this my last post now.
>

I enjoyed your waka very much, Kigen.
Thank you :)
Bette.



--- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, "kigen_photos" <kigen_photos@...> wrote:
>
> Donna and all,
>
> Thanks for your kind comment Sunny and correction Richard!
> Donna these poems are FANTASTIC.  I love everything about them, both form and
content. I forgot about Izumi Shikibu but look forward to reviewing her poems
again!
>
> I assume if I am faithful to myself, and to my daily routine, the aging
process will naturally presence. In this recent experience I felt a sense of
humor sitting in a field of "old fashioned" flowers, but also happy that my body
could still be pushed to walk further, and exercise more without over doing it. 
The heat in New York City this week has been exceedingly hot and humid.
>
>    At summer's end,
> walking in Queen Anne's Lace,
>    I rest delightedly
>    on the river's embankment.
> My body sweats, invigorated!
>
>
> Sarah / Kigen
>
>
>
> --- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, donna ferrell <dfer268@> wrote:
> >
> > Sarah, I say go for it. I'm not going to give you traditional examples but
rather modern tanka examples from "The Tanka Anthology" edited by Michael
McClintock, Pamela Miller Ness and Jim Kacian.
> >  
> > First, one by Margaret Chula. I think this one is about aging as well as the
longing for love.
> >  
> > the black negligee
> > that I bought for your return
> > hangs in my closet
> >    day by day plums ripen
> >    and are picked clean by birds
> >  
> > The second one by Jeanne Emrich
> >  
> > dry seeds scatter
> > from my hand into the wind--
> > one clings
> > as if to say there is in me
> > something yet to be
> >  
> >  
> > Both of these women have a wonderful lyrical voices that frequently deal
with the perspective of being middle aged and female. Although they don't use
traditional capitalization and punctuation, both have a sense of the traditional
structure of the form.
> >  
> > I think looking to Ono no Komachi and Izumi Shikibu for inspiration is a
good idea.
> >  
> > Donna
> >
> > --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Shin02143@ <Shin02143@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Shin02143@ <Shin02143@>
> > Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka
> > To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
> >
>

The river's breadth
is narrowed by abundant
water hyacinths
too late for flowering but
green and profoundly quiet.

by Takaori Taeko

Just to note that this was originally published
in Anthology of Modern Japanese Poetry,
translated and compiled by Edith M. Shiffert
& Yuki Sawa, Charles E. Tuttle, 1972
though it is quoted in the book on menopause
I mentioned.

Thanks again Donna for renewing Mountain Home
and thanks for our exquisite form of Modern Waka,
which I love very, very, much.

I'll make this my last post now.

Donna and all,

Thanks for your kind comment Sunny and correction Richard!
Donna these poems are FANTASTIC.  I love everything about them, both form and
content. I forgot about Izumi Shikibu but look forward to reviewing her poems
again!

I assume if I am faithful to myself, and to my daily routine, the aging process
will naturally presence. In this recent experience I felt a sense of humor
sitting in a field of "old fashioned" flowers, but also happy that my body could
still be pushed to walk further, and exercise more without over doing it.  The
heat in New York City this week has been exceedingly hot and humid.

    At summer's end,
walking in Queen Anne's Lace,
    I rest delightedly
    on the river's embankment.
My body sweats, invigorated!


Sarah / Kigen



--- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, donna ferrell <dfer268@...> wrote:
>
> Sarah, I say go for it. I'm not going to give you traditional examples but
rather modern tanka examples from "The Tanka Anthology" edited by Michael
McClintock, Pamela Miller Ness and Jim Kacian.
>  
> First, one by Margaret Chula. I think this one is about aging as well as the
longing for love.
>  
> the black negligee
> that I bought for your return
> hangs in my closet
>    day by day plums ripen
>    and are picked clean by birds
>  
> The second one by Jeanne Emrich
>  
> dry seeds scatter
> from my hand into the wind--
> one clings
> as if to say there is in me
> something yet to be
>  
>  
> Both of these women have a wonderful lyrical voices that frequently deal with
the perspective of being middle aged and female. Although they don't use
traditional capitalization and punctuation, both have a sense of the traditional
structure of the form.
>  
> I think looking to Ono no Komachi and Izumi Shikibu for inspiration is a good
idea.
>  
> Donna
>
> --- On Wed, 8/19/09, Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...>
> Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka
> To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:22 PM
>

Sarah, I say go for it. I'm not going to give you traditional examples but
rather modern tanka examples from "The Tanka Anthology" edited by Michael
McClintock, Pamela Miller Ness and Jim Kacian.
 
First, one by Margaret Chula. I think this one is about aging as well as the
longing for love.
 
the black negligee
that I bought for your return
hangs in my closet
   day by day plums ripen
   and are picked clean by birds
 
The second one by Jeanne Emrich
 
dry seeds scatter
from my hand into the wind--
one clings
as if to say there is in me
something yet to be
 
 
Both of these women have a wonderful lyrical voices that frequently deal with
the perspective of being middle aged and female. Although they don't use
traditional capitalization and punctuation, both have a sense of the traditional
structure of the form.
 
I think looking to Ono no Komachi and Izumi Shikibu for inspiration is a good
idea.
 
Donna

--- On Wed, 8/19/09, Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...> wrote:


From: Shin02143@... <Shin02143@...>
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, August 19, 2009, 3:22 PM


 




Small point, Ono no Komachi was 9th century, not 7th c.

Richard

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunny Larson <sunny.larson@ asu.edu>
To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com <Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2009 2:27 pm
Subject: RE: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka

These are beautiful!

____________ _________ _________ __

From: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com]
On Behalf Of kigen_photos

Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:50 AM

To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

Subject: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka

A wonderful thing about loving waka and being middle aged is that aging has its
own master waka and haiku poems. I would like to be able to write modern waka
about this time in my life, but I need a sense of the tradition to work with. I
am wondering if Donna or anyone in the group could suggest examples (either waka
or haiku). Women can have a unique perspective on aging as is clear from both
poems below.

by Ono no Komachi (7th c.)

# 9 in the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu

translation by F. V. Dickins, 1866

(probably the first English translation

of this superb classical waka and a

unique take on its meaning)

Flower's tints have faded;

alas! that I advance in years

in this world

is a circumstance which

causes men to glance at me.

___ ___ ___

Waka by Takaori Taeko (b. 1912)

from Encounters with Aging: Mythologies of Menopause in Japan and North America,
By Margaret M. Lock

(tr. by Edith M. Shiffert & Yuki Sawa)

The river's breadth

is narrowed by abundant

water hyacinths

too late for flowering but

green and profoundly quiet.

___ ___ ___

Sarah / Kigen

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Small point, Ono no Komachi was 9th century, not 7th c.

Richard







-----Original Message-----
From: Sunny Larson <sunny.larson@...>
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com <Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Aug 19, 2009 2:27 pm
Subject: RE: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka

























These are beautiful!



________________________________

From: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of kigen_photos

Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:50 AM

To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com

Subject: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka



A wonderful thing about loving waka and being middle aged is that aging has its
own master waka and haiku poems. I would like to be able to write modern waka
about this time in my life, but I need a sense of the tradition to work with. I
am wondering if Donna or anyone in the group could suggest examples (either waka
or haiku). Women can have a unique perspective on aging as is clear from both
poems below.



by Ono no Komachi (7th c.)

# 9 in the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu

translation by F. V. Dickins, 1866

(probably the first English translation

of this superb classical waka and a

unique take on its meaning)



Flower's tints have faded;

alas! that I advance in years

in this world

is a circumstance which

causes men to glance at me.



___ ___ ___



Waka by Takaori Taeko (b. 1912)

from Encounters with Aging: Mythologies of Menopause in Japan and North America,
By Margaret M. Lock

(tr. by Edith M. Shiffert & Yuki Sawa)



The river's breadth

is narrowed by abundant

water hyacinths

too late for flowering but

green and profoundly quiet.



___ ___ ___



Sarah / Kigen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

These are beautiful!

________________________________
From: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of kigen_photos
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 6:50 AM
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Mountain-Home] Mid-Life Waka



A wonderful thing about loving waka and being middle aged is that aging has its
own master waka and haiku poems. I would like to be able to write modern waka
about this time in my life, but I need a sense of the tradition to work with. I
am wondering if Donna or anyone in the group could suggest examples (either waka
or haiku). Women can have a unique perspective on aging as is clear from both
poems below.

by Ono no Komachi (7th c.)
# 9 in the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
translation by F. V. Dickins, 1866
(probably the first English translation
of this superb classical waka and a
unique take on its meaning)

Flower's tints have faded;
alas! that I advance in years
in this world
is a circumstance which
causes men to glance at me.

___ ___ ___

Waka by Takaori Taeko (b. 1912)
from Encounters with Aging: Mythologies of Menopause in Japan and North America,
By Margaret M. Lock
(tr. by Edith M. Shiffert & Yuki Sawa)

The river's breadth
is narrowed by abundant
water hyacinths
too late for flowering but
green and profoundly quiet.

___ ___ ___

Sarah / Kigen





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A wonderful thing about loving waka and being middle aged is that aging has its
own master waka and haiku poems. I would like to be able to write modern waka
about this time in my life, but I need a sense of the tradition to work with. I
am wondering if Donna or anyone in the group could suggest examples (either waka
or haiku).  Women can have a unique perspective on aging as is clear from both
poems below.

by Ono no Komachi (7th c.)
# 9 in the Ogura Hyakunin Isshu
translation by F. V. Dickins, 1866
(probably the first English translation
of this superb classical waka and a
unique take on its meaning)

Flower's tints have faded;
alas! that I advance in years
in this world
is a circumstance which
causes men to glance at me.

___ ___ ___

Waka by Takaori Taeko (b. 1912)
from Encounters with Aging: Mythologies of Menopause in Japan and North America,
By Margaret M. Lock
(tr. by Edith M. Shiffert & Yuki Sawa)

The river's breadth
is narrowed by abundant
water hyacinths
too late for flowering but
green and profoundly quiet.

___ ___ ___

Sarah / Kigen

Thanks Donna. I'll do some reading thinking and reworking.

John


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Before this one goes, I'd like to give my views on several issues to help those
fairly new to this list understand a little bit more (and these views are
controversial).

First, structure of waka. There's little controversy about the structure of
traditional Japanese waka but lots of controversy about structure in today's
time. I pointed out that both McCullough and Rodd use a 5 line 5/7/5/7/7 form in
their translations. Both are trying to approximate the original in English but
the main point is that they recognize there should be an internal structure
beyond just five lines. Beichman, on the other hand, uses 5 lines but there is
no relationship to that s/l/s/l/l line structure. She is using a Western
aesthetic of free line structure that has been incorporated into modern tanka in
both English and Japanese forms.

While Rodd uses the traditional structure, she uses no punctuation,
capitalization and enjambment--all coming from modern Western aesthetics. While
it is true that the original Japanese had no punctuation (in terms of our
understanding of English punctuation), they had kireji (cutting words) that were
used to show some punctuation as well as relationships in grammar in the
Japanese language.

On this forum we go towards the more traditional structures of waka. That
doesn't mean that one has to use 5/7/5/7/7 but a s/l/s/l/l form with punctuation
and capitalization. That also doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge modern tanka
or read it because I do. And as Beichman's translation shows, modern tanka can
be very beautiful and speak to our modern sensibilities. It is, however, a
hybridization of Asian and Western aesthetics. On this list, I want to work with
the more traditional and help make people more aware of how much our cultural
collisions and fusions have influenced the form.

Donna


(1)
from A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto
translation by Jenine Beichman

The amulet
I send with my child
is my heart and only that.
Let it pass
through all your barriers.

(2)
Helen C. McCullough version

Please do not deny,
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

(3)
Laurel Rasplica Rodd version
[Rudd leaves a wide EMPTY space between
the last two words in L3 where I've
added an ellipsis]

oh barrier guards
do not close the gates before
this aged heart ... it
goes as a companion to
guide my child on distant roads

___ ___ ___

Mountain-Home Workshop Pages
http://modwaka0.tripod.com
Modern Waka's 100 verse sequence page
http://modwaka.tripod.com
Hokku-Inn's pages
http://hokku0.tripod.com

Sorry, the "Waka Primer" is under "Files" rather than "Links."

D.

-- In Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com, donna ferrell <dfer268@...> wrote:
>
> Hi John. Welcome.
>  
> You've got some good images here to start with and there's a nice sense of the
season passing. We follow a short/long/short/long/long line pattern. It doesn't
have to be a 5/7/5/7/7 syllable pattern but should follow s/l/s/l/l.
>  
> You may want to go back and see if you can get this more flowing rather than
having the very short, choppy phrases.
>  
> Since you are new, there are some brief lessons in the "Waka Primer" under the
links on Mountain Home's web page that might be useful. Please post again.
>  
> Donna
>  
>
>
> Mountain-Home Workshop Pages
> http://modwaka0.tripod.com
> Modern Waka's 100 verse sequence page
> http://modwaka.tripod.com
> Hokku-Inn's pages
> http://hokku0.tripod.com
>
> --- On Tue, 8/18/09, jpw_52 <johnparrott52@...> wrote:
>
>
> From: jpw_52 <johnparrott52@...>
> Subject: [Mountain-Home] First steps
> To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 10:07 AM
>
>
>  
>
>
>
> Hi
> I'm new to waka and know little about the technical side of poetry, although I
have a love of the simplicity of many Chinese and Japanese poems.
>
> Tentatively and with some aprehension, I'm going to offer a piece written over
the last few days. I'd welcome any feedback.
>
> Solitary footsteps
> across empty fields.
> Summer passing.
> On a hill,
> earth freshly ploughed.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Thank you, Sarah, for bringing up the discussion.
 
And for the newer people on the list, I want to point out that both McCullough's
and Rodd's translations are 5/7/5/7/7 form while Beichman only sticks to a 5
line form without s/l/s/l/l structure. Rodd uses enjambment where you have put
the ellipsis in order to make the form and you will notice that McCullough uses
more traditional English phrasing utilizing the end line as a natural break.
 
Very interesting, as you say, to see the different hues of meaning all from the
same original waka.
 
Donna



--- On Tue, 8/18/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@...> wrote:


From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@...>
Subject: [Mountain-Home] A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 10:52 AM


 



Thanks Donna and Carmen ((-:
I'm giving up on putting this into
modern waka...for now.

Here's three translations, Kokinshu #368,
including also Laurel Rasplica Rodd's
version:

(1)
from A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto
translation by Jenine Beichman

The amulet
I send with my child
is my heart and only that.
Let it pass
through all your barriers.

(2)
Helen C. McCullough version

Please do not deny,
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

(3)
Laurel Rasplica Rodd version
[Rudd leaves a wide EMPTY space between
the last two words in L3 where I've
added an ellipsis]

oh barrier guards
do not close the gates before
this aged heart ... it
goes as a companion to
guide my child on distant roads

___ ___ ___
One thing I notice, that is, beyond the
obvious difficulty in turning waka into
English poetry -- and that's the dynamic change
in meaning (as in any language) between the
dictionary definition, compared to when words
are tinged with the meanings of the surrounding
phrases. And that's where the translator's heart
is most in play.
___
















__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi John. Welcome.
 
You've got some good images here to start with and there's a nice sense of the
season passing. We follow a short/long/short/long/long line pattern. It doesn't
have to be a 5/7/5/7/7 syllable pattern but should follow s/l/s/l/l.
 
You may want to go back and see if you can get this more flowing rather than
having the very short, choppy phrases.
 
Since you are new, there are some brief lessons in the "Waka Primer" under the
links on Mountain Home's web page that might be useful. Please post again.
 
Donna
 


Mountain-Home Workshop Pages
http://modwaka0.tripod.com
Modern Waka's 100 verse sequence page
http://modwaka.tripod.com
Hokku-Inn's pages
http://hokku0.tripod.com

--- On Tue, 8/18/09, jpw_52 <johnparrott52@...> wrote:


From: jpw_52 <johnparrott52@...>
Subject: [Mountain-Home] First steps
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 18, 2009, 10:07 AM


 



Hi
I'm new to waka and know little about the technical side of poetry, although I
have a love of the simplicity of many Chinese and Japanese poems.

Tentatively and with some aprehension, I'm going to offer a piece written over
the last few days. I'd welcome any feedback.

Solitary footsteps
across empty fields.
Summer passing.
On a hill,
earth freshly ploughed.

John



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Donna and Carmen ((-:
I'm giving up on putting this into
modern waka...for now.

Here's three translations, Kokinshu #368,
including also Laurel Rasplica Rodd's
version:

(1)
from A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto
translation by Jenine Beichman

The amulet
I send with my child
is my heart and only that.
Let it pass
through all your barriers.

(2)
Helen C. McCullough version

Please do not deny,
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

(3)
Laurel Rasplica Rodd version
[Rudd leaves a wide EMPTY space between
the last two words in L3 where I've
added an ellipsis]

oh barrier guards
do not close the gates before
this aged heart ... it
goes as a companion to
guide my child on distant roads

___ ___ ___
One thing I notice, that is, beyond the
obvious difficulty in turning waka into
English poetry -- and that's the dynamic change
in meaning (as in any language) between the
dictionary definition, compared to when words
are tinged with the meanings of the surrounding
phrases. And that's where the translator's heart
is most in play.
___

Hi
I'm new to waka and know little about the technical side of poetry, although I
have a love of the simplicity of many Chinese and Japanese poems.

Tentatively and with some aprehension, I'm going to offer a piece written over
the last few days. I'd welcome any feedback.

              Solitary footsteps
              across empty fields.
              Summer passing.
              On a hill,
              earth freshly ploughed.


   John

Thanks, Sarah and Carmen.
 
It's always interesting to see how translators create their translation of a
waka. Some adhere carefully to the original and others use their sense of poetic
aesthetics to try to connect to the audience.
 
McCullough makes it very clear that "barriers" refers to the political land
barriers. Ooka Makoto by using "you" by itself opens "barriers" up for
interpretation. By using "I" the poem becomes more immediate in connecting with
the audience. Yet my understanding of Japanese (and I know little) is that there
are no personal pronouns explicit in the text--the use is interpreted from
context.
 
Comments are welcome.
 
Donna

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...> wrote:


From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...>
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:51 PM


 



Please do not deny, 
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

Helen Craig McCullough's translation

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 7:31 PM

Dear Donna and Sarah,

I don't know if this will help in understanding the waka or not, but this is
Helen Craig McCullough's translation from Kokin Wakashu: The First Anthology of
Japanese Poetry in the classic 5-7-5-7-7  form.

Please do not deny,
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

tarachine no

oya no mamori to

ai-souru

kokoro bakari wa 

seki na todome so

Carmen Sterba

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:49 PM

 

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com> wrote:

From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com>

Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:19 PM

 

Donna, thanks for your interest and encouragement.

Here's the Romaji

(see L4, "bakari," for the "only, nothing but this")

With my child --

all my heart, only that,

I send this amulet.

Please allow it to pass 

Through all your barriers.

used an online Romaji dictionary for the following:

but could not find the other much else.

line 2

mamori = protection/defense/ safeguard/ charm/talisman

line 4

kokoro = heart/spirit

bakari = approximately/ just/only/ merely/nothing but

Line 5

seki = gateway, or barrier

---

Sarah

--- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@... > wrote:

>

> "Heart barriers" is a good way to put it, Sarah.

>  

> I wonder about "only that" and how the original romaji was. I have trouble
figuring out where that phrase should be to make the most impact.

>

> Thanks for working with this.

>  

> Donna

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..>

> Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

> To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:02 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Thanks Donna, my question was confusing, I see, but your answer marvelous.
I'll try to retranslate the poem into modern-waka:

>

> With my child --

> all my heart, only that,

> I send this amulet.

> Please allow it to pass

> Through all your barriers.

>

> And I agree, "All your barriers," is so powerful! Any thoughts on its layers?
I think it definitely refers to heart-barriers as well as border-gates. What
else have I missed?

>

> Sarah

>

> --- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@ > wrote:

> >

> > Welcome back, Sarah. This is a beautiful waka with multi-layers of meaning.
"Barriers" really explodes into layers.

> >  

> > I'm not sure what you are asking since this would have to be greatly revised
to fit into the form we use. It would be interesting to have "the amulet" as the
pivot. The original might make a difference with the translation, too.

> >  

> > We talked about essential words and I don't know if this is what you are
thinking about. The way this is written in a metaphor, the "is" is needed to
create the metaphor and would have to be counted as an essential word. Now if it
could be re-worked so that the metaphor was implied (more of the subtleness
often found in the older waka) rather than explicit, you probably could remove
the "is." Not sure if this answers your question.

> >  

> > Donna

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..>

> > Subject: [Mountain-Home] A Mother's Amulet

> > To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

> > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 4:49 PM

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > Congrats, Donna, and thank you for reopening Mountain-Home. How greatly I
have missed it and missed you and the wonderful poets who contribute here!!!

> >

> > A MOTHER'S AMULET

> > Ono no Chifuru no Haha

> > (Mother of Ono no Chifuru, from the Kokinshu)

> >

> > The amulet

> > I send with my child

> > is my heart and only that.

> > Let it pass

> > through all your barriers.

> > ----------

> > According to Ooka Makoto, the mother sent the amulet as her loving spirit
traveling with the child, thus the poem is saying, "so, please, guardians of the
barrier, excuse a parent's heart and let it through, even if it does not have a
proper pass."

> >

> > A question, Donna, I want to workshop on this poem â€" My memory
when I first began to post on Mountain-Home was that the copula in the pivot can
be ignored. So in this example "is" can be discounted when we read lines 3-4-5
as a complete phrase, becoming "my heart and only that..." Could this problem on
the copula be clarified?

> >

> > btw, the waka translation above is from one of my all-time favorite books of
Japanese poetry â€" called A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto

> >

> > Sarah / kigen

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please do not deny, 
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

Helen Craig McCullough's translation


--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...> wrote:

From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...>
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 7:31 PM


Dear Donna and Sarah,

I don't know if this will help in understanding the waka or not, but this is
Helen Craig McCullough's translation from Kokin Wakashu: The First Anthology of
Japanese Poetry in the classic 5-7-5-7-7  form.

Please do not deny,
you men of the barrier,
passage to this heart
sent by a loving mother
as guardian for her son.

tarachine no

oya no mamori to

ai-souru

kokoro bakari wa 

seki na todome so

Carmen Sterba



--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com> wrote:



From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@ yahoo.com>

Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:49 PM



 



--- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com> wrote:



From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com>



Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet



To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com



Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:19 PM



 



Donna, thanks for your interest and encouragement.



Here's the Romaji



(see L4, "bakari," for the "only, nothing but this")



With my child --



all my heart, only that,



I send this amulet.



Please allow it to pass 



Through all your barriers.



used an online Romaji dictionary for the following:



but could not find the other much else.



line 2



mamori = protection/defense/ safeguard/ charm/talisman



line 4



kokoro = heart/spirit



bakari = approximately/ just/only/ merely/nothing but



Line 5



seki = gateway, or barrier



---



Sarah



--- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@... > wrote:



>



> "Heart barriers" is a good way to put it, Sarah.



>  



> I wonder about "only that" and how the original romaji was. I have trouble
figuring out where that phrase should be to make the most impact.



>



> Thanks for working with this.



>  



> Donna



>



>



>



> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..> wrote:



>



>



> From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..>



> Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet



> To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com



> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:02 AM



>



>



>  



>



>



>



> Thanks Donna, my question was confusing, I see, but your answer marvelous.
I'll try to retranslate the poem into modern-waka:



>



> With my child --



> all my heart, only that,



> I send this amulet.



> Please allow it to pass



> Through all your barriers.



>



> And I agree, "All your barriers," is so powerful! Any thoughts on its layers?
I think it definitely refers to heart-barriers as well as border-gates. What
else have I missed?



>



> Sarah



>



> --- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@ > wrote:



> >



> > Welcome back, Sarah. This is a beautiful waka with multi-layers of meaning.
"Barriers" really explodes into layers.



> >  



> > I'm not sure what you are asking since this would have to be greatly revised
to fit into the form we use. It would be interesting to have "the amulet" as the
pivot. The original might make a difference with the translation, too.



> >  



> > We talked about essential words and I don't know if this is what you are
thinking about. The way this is written in a metaphor, the "is" is needed to
create the metaphor and would have to be counted as an essential word. Now if it
could be re-worked so that the metaphor was implied (more of the subtleness
often found in the older waka) rather than explicit, you probably could remove
the "is." Not sure if this answers your question.



> >  



> > Donna



> >



> >



> >



> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..> wrote:



> >



> >



> > From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..>



> > Subject: [Mountain-Home] A Mother's Amulet



> > To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com



> > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 4:49 PM



> >



> >



> >  



> >



> >



> >



> > Congrats, Donna, and thank you for reopening Mountain-Home. How greatly I
have missed it and missed you and the wonderful poets who contribute here!!!



> >



> > A MOTHER'S AMULET



> > Ono no Chifuru no Haha



> > (Mother of Ono no Chifuru, from the Kokinshu)



> >



> > The amulet



> > I send with my child



> > is my heart and only that.



> > Let it pass



> > through all your barriers.



> > ----------



> > According to Ooka Makoto, the mother sent the amulet as her loving spirit
traveling with the child, thus the poem is saying, "so, please, guardians of the
barrier, excuse a parent's heart and let it through, even if it does not have a
proper pass."



> >



> > A question, Donna, I want to workshop on this poem â€" My memory
when I first began to post on Mountain-Home was that the copula in the pivot can
be ignored. So in this example "is" can be discounted when we read lines 3-4-5
as a complete phrase, becoming "my heart and only that..." Could this problem on
the copula be clarified?



> >



> > btw, the waka translation above is from one of my all-time favorite books of
Japanese poetry â€" called A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto



> >



> > Sarah / kigen



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



> >



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>











































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Donna and Sarah,
I don't know if this will help in understanding the waka or not, but this is
Helen Craig McCullough's translation from Kokin Wakashu: The First Anthology of
Japanese Poetry in the classic 5-7-5-7-7  form.
   Please do not deny,you men of the barrier,    passage to this heartsent
by a loving motheras guardian for her son.
tarachine no
oya no mamori to
ai-souru
kokoro bakari wa 
seki na todome so
Carmen Sterba

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...> wrote:

From: Carmen Sterba <carmensterba@...>
Subject: Re: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:49 PM













 









--- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com> wrote:



From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@nyc. rr.com>

Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:19 PM



 



Donna, thanks for your interest and encouragement.



Here's the Romaji



(see L4, "bakari," for the "only, nothing but this")


With my child --

all my heart, only that,

I send this amulet.

Please allow it to pass 

Through all your barriers.



used an online Romaji dictionary for the following:



but could not find the other much else.



line 2



mamori = protection/defense/ safeguard/ charm/talisman



line 4



kokoro = heart/spirit



bakari = approximately/ just/only/ merely/nothing but



Line 5



seki = gateway, or barrier



---



Sarah



--- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@... > wrote:



>



> "Heart barriers" is a good way to put it, Sarah.



>  



> I wonder about "only that" and how the original romaji was. I have trouble
figuring out where that phrase should be to make the most impact.



>



> Thanks for working with this.



>  



> Donna



>



>



>



> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..> wrote:



>



>



> From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..>



> Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet



> To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com



> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:02 AM



>



>



>  



>



>



>



> Thanks Donna, my question was confusing, I see, but your answer marvelous.
I'll try to retranslate the poem into modern-waka:



>



> With my child --



> all my heart, only that,



> I send this amulet.



> Please allow it to pass



> Through all your barriers.



>



> And I agree, "All your barriers," is so powerful! Any thoughts on its layers?
I think it definitely refers to heart-barriers as well as border-gates. What
else have I missed?



>



> Sarah



>



> --- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@ > wrote:



> >



> > Welcome back, Sarah. This is a beautiful waka with multi-layers of meaning.
"Barriers" really explodes into layers.



> >  



> > I'm not sure what you are asking since this would have to be greatly revised
to fit into the form we use. It would be interesting to have "the amulet" as the
pivot. The original might make a difference with the translation, too.



> >  



> > We talked about essential words and I don't know if this is what you are
thinking about. The way this is written in a metaphor, the "is" is needed to
create the metaphor and would have to be counted as an essential word. Now if it
could be re-worked so that the metaphor was implied (more of the subtleness
often found in the older waka) rather than explicit, you probably could remove
the "is." Not sure if this answers your question.



> >  



> > Donna



> >



> >



> >



> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..> wrote:



> >



> >



> > From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..>



> > Subject: [Mountain-Home] A Mother's Amulet



> > To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com



> > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 4:49 PM



> >



> >



> >  



> >



> >



> >



> > Congrats, Donna, and thank you for reopening Mountain-Home. How greatly I
have missed it and missed you and the wonderful poets who contribute here!!!



> >



> > A MOTHER'S AMULET



> > Ono no Chifuru no Haha



> > (Mother of Ono no Chifuru, from the Kokinshu)



> >



> > The amulet



> > I send with my child



> > is my heart and only that.



> > Let it pass



> > through all your barriers.



> > ----------



> > According to Ooka Makoto, the mother sent the amulet as her loving spirit
traveling with the child, thus the poem is saying, "so, please, guardians of the
barrier, excuse a parent's heart and let it through, even if it does not have a
proper pass."



> >



> > A question, Donna, I want to workshop on this poem â€" My memory
when I first began to post on Mountain-Home was that the copula in the pivot can
be ignored. So in this example "is" can be discounted when we read lines 3-4-5
as a complete phrase, becoming "my heart and only that..." Could this problem on
the copula be clarified?



> >



> > btw, the waka translation above is from one of my all-time favorite books of
Japanese poetry â€" called A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto



> >



> > Sarah / kigen



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> >



> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



> >



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



>



> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



>































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




































[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@...> wrote:

From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@...>
Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet
To: Mountain-Home@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 6:19 PM













 





                   Donna, thanks for your interest and encouragement.

Here's the Romaji

(see L4, "bakari," for the "only, nothing but this")



tarachine no

oya no mamori to

ai-souru

kokoro bakari wa

seki na todome soWith my child --
all my heart, only that,
I send this amulet.
Please allow it to pass 
Through all your barriers.



used an online Romaji dictionary for the following:

but could not find the other much else.



line 2

mamori = protection/defense/ safeguard/ charm/talisman



line 4

kokoro = heart/spirit

bakari = approximately/ just/only/ merely/nothing but



Line 5

seki = gateway, or barrier



---

Sarah



--- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@... > wrote:

>

> "Heart barriers" is a good way to put it, Sarah.

>  

> I wonder about "only that" and how the original romaji was. I have trouble
figuring out where that phrase should be to make the most impact.

>

> Thanks for working with this.

>  

> Donna

>

>

>

> --- On Mon, 8/17/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..> wrote:

>

>

> From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@. ..>

> Subject: [Mountain-Home] Re: A Mother's Amulet

> To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Monday, August 17, 2009, 10:02 AM

>

>

>  

>

>

>

> Thanks Donna, my question was confusing, I see, but your answer marvelous.
I'll try to retranslate the poem into modern-waka:

>

> With my child --

> all my heart, only that,

> I send this amulet.

> Please allow it to pass

> Through all your barriers.

>

> And I agree, "All your barriers," is so powerful! Any thoughts on its layers?
I think it definitely refers to heart-barriers as well as border-gates. What
else have I missed?

>

> Sarah

>

> --- In Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com, donna ferrell <dfer268@ > wrote:

> >

> > Welcome back, Sarah. This is a beautiful waka with multi-layers of meaning.
"Barriers" really explodes into layers.

> >  

> > I'm not sure what you are asking since this would have to be greatly revised
to fit into the form we use. It would be interesting to have "the amulet" as the
pivot. The original might make a difference with the translation, too.

> >  

> > We talked about essential words and I don't know if this is what you are
thinking about. The way this is written in a metaphor, the "is" is needed to
create the metaphor and would have to be counted as an essential word. Now if it
could be re-worked so that the metaphor was implied (more of the subtleness
often found in the older waka) rather than explicit, you probably could remove
the "is." Not sure if this answers your question.

> >  

> > Donna

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Sun, 8/16/09, kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..> wrote:

> >

> >

> > From: kigen_photos <ewmasters@ ..>

> > Subject: [Mountain-Home] A Mother's Amulet

> > To: Mountain-Home@ yahoogroups. com

> > Date: Sunday, August 16, 2009, 4:49 PM

> >

> >

> >  

> >

> >

> >

> > Congrats, Donna, and thank you for reopening Mountain-Home. How greatly I
have missed it and missed you and the wonderful poets who contribute here!!!

> >

> > A MOTHER'S AMULET

> > Ono no Chifuru no Haha

> > (Mother of Ono no Chifuru, from the Kokinshu)

> >

> > The amulet

> > I send with my child

> > is my heart and only that.

> > Let it pass

> > through all your barriers.

> > ----------

> > According to Ooka Makoto, the mother sent the amulet as her loving spirit
traveling with the child, thus the poem is saying, "so, please, guardians of the
barrier, excuse a parent's heart and let it through, even if it does not have a
proper pass."

> >

> > A question, Donna, I want to workshop on this poem â€" My memory
when I first began to post on Mountain-Home was that the copula in the pivot can
be ignored. So in this example "is" can be discounted when we read lines 3-4-5
as a complete phrase, becoming "my heart and only that..." Could this problem on
the copula be clarified?

> >

> > btw, the waka translation above is from one of my all-time favorite books of
Japanese poetry â€" called A POET'S ANTHOLOGY by Ooka Makoto

> >

> > Sarah / kigen

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