I've created this list today to supercede ChicagoA
ndMidwestCemeteries.

The old mailing list was "orphaned" because the owner, Adipocere, no
longer has access to his Yahoo account.  Although I had moderator
powers there, and could approve messages and new members, without an
active owner there was a danger that Yahoo might have unexpectedly
deleted the group.  Hence, we thought it best to get a fresh start.  I
wrote to Adi a few days ago, asking about a name change, and he
recommended a completely new list.

There were 75 subscribers to the old list, and I've invited all of
them today to join this new list.  Some of those accounts are probably
defunct, but I'll be monitoring the list closely to ensure that all of
the active participants make the transition.

With this new start comes a name change - it is now simply
MidwestCemeteries.  Although there will still be plenty of Chicago
content here, I hope that this change will result in more members from
outside Illinois.  I plan to ask the webmasters of other regional
sites (in Ohio, Milwaukee, and elsewhere) to join our list and help
advertise it.

The states listed in the description are those that are in the
"Midwest" according to the definition found on Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midwest).  I'm sure we'll occasionally
talk about graveyards elsewhere, but these states should be our
primary focus.

The photo presently on the list's home page is from Calvary Cemetery,
St. Louis - a statue of a young boy in a superbly detailed wheelchair.

Thanks for re-joining,
Matt - http://www.graveyards.com/

The first week of August I will be driving up north to take a
vacation at Mackinac Island, MI.  Does anyone know of any cemeteries
that are worth visiting in the northern part of the LP of Michigan?

> The first week of August I will be driving up north to take a
> vacation at Mackinac Island, MI.  Does anyone know of any cemeteries
> that are worth visiting in the northern part of the LP of Michigan?

Never been there, sorry.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

--- In MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com, "Deloris Clark-Osborne"
<deloris40@h...> wrote:
> The first week of August I will be driving up north to take a
> vacation at Mackinac Island, MI.  Does anyone know of any cemeteries
> that are worth visiting in the northern part of the LP of Michigan?

A must would be the Cadillac Cemetery.  It is a nice large cemetery
with beautiful stones.  This is also a cemetery on the island.

I occasionally dream of graveyards that don't exist - not as often
as I'd like... here's one from a few months ago.  It formed such
a strong image in my mind that I can still remember the scene, and
did this writeup today, months later:

     A tall hedge runs parallel to a city street, trimmed precisely
     with perfect vertical and horizontal lines.  It is about ten feet
     tall and forms a solid mass without any gaps; this is the west edge of
     the graveyard.

     About five feet from it, to the east, runs another parallel hedge,
     identical to the first except for a gap in the middle.  It is a
     dark night and I approach the parallel hedges from an open end
     at the south; to my right I see the south fence of the graveyard - a
     tall chain-link fence topped with barbed wire, perpendicular to the
     inner hedge, through which little can be seen in the darkness
     except more bushes and a few ordinary headstones.

     I enter the space between the parallel hedges.  The only illumination
     is provided by streetlamps on the other side of the street, most of
     which is blocked by the two tall hedges, and by a mysterious white
     glow coming from the gap in the inner hedge.  There is a strong wind,
     loudly rushing through the bushes.

     When I reach the gap I see a sign reading "St. John's Cemetery";
     in the center of the gap and set a few feet back is a tall crucifix
     of white marble.  At its base is the source of the strange light;
     a slant-faced marker is set there, about three feet off the ground
     (the entire structure sitting atop a block of concrete or ordinary
     stone); the slant marker is made of white marble, so thin as to be
     translucent.  The grooves between the various marble panels
     show that it is hollow, and the light source comes from within.  The
     inscription on the front panel, backlit by the mystery light,
     indicates that this is a child's grave (I don't remember the details).

     The light is pure white, and does not flicker - it is not a flame.

     I circle around the glowing monument, inspecting it from all directions;
     from all directions the base appears to glow, casting a white light
     onto the hedges and the cross above.  Around me are other more typical
     monuments, lit only dimly; I cannot see any more than about six feet
     away.  The wind continues to blow strongly, causing the bushes to
     rustle.

What are your graveyard dreams?

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

I often dream of graveyards. Maybe once every other month or so.
They're always the most amazing graveyards filled with all sorts of
unique statuary. And they're always within an hour drive of my home.
I don't really remember any specifics currently though.

A couple of weeks ago I dreamed that there was a cemetery and church
in back of my house (where in reality there's a wooded area), which I
just 'discovered' for the first time when I looked out an upstairs
window. I saw a wall made of stones, quite high, about six feet tall
or so. In the center of the wall was an iron gate, on the top of which
in ornate ironwork lettering were the words Natalie Bobby. The first
word was clear but the second one became fuzzy when I would look at
it.

Past the gate I could see a small churchyard and, from my point of
view inside my house, I could see only two graves, one on either side
of the pathway. The path led to the open doors of a church (opened
inward which is a dreaming-mind goof) and on the floor I could see a
bright red carpet disappearing partway down the center aisle. A
rectangular stone marker was on the church above the open doors, on
which was engraved one word - EARLY.

The feeling I had is that the church and cemetery were very old.

It crossed my mind that the dream was a reference to Natalee Holloway,
the teenager who disappeared in Aruba, but I also thought of Natalie
as a name connected to nativity and "birth".

I don't know any "Bobby" in my life at this time.

What "EARLY" means (it was all in caps, I'm not screaming) I can't
tell.

While thinking this over with the missing girl in Aruba in mind, I
thought wouldn't it be a clever hiding place for a murderer - find an
old abandoned graveyard in a very out of the way place, dig up an old
grave and throw the body of the person you murdered on top of the
coffin, rebury it all, carefully cover with brush and chunks of grass,
dead leaves, etc. Who would look for a murder victim in a grave in an
old derelict cemetery?

Maybe a mystery writer has used this notion before but it was a new
idea to me.

Hey, wait a minute. Now I can't murder anyone because all you guys in
Midwest Cemeteries know where I would hide the body. Darn!

Anne

--- In MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com, "Deloris Clark-Osborne"
<deloris40@h...> wrote:
> The first week of August I will be driving up north to take a
> vacation at Mackinac Island, MI.  Does anyone know of any cemeteries
> that are worth visiting in the northern part of the LP of Michigan?


Deloris, I want to go with you! Michigan in August sounds like heaven.

Hope these help -
http://tinyurl.com/aobhu
http://www.welcometoamerica.us/wmi-mackinaccemetery.html


Anne

Is there anyone here that has knowledge of Oakwood Cemetery (on Cass
Street, I believe) in Joliet, Illinois? I remember it being quite old
and large, in what is now considered a rough area.....I grew up in
Joliet off and on as a child, so memories are sketchy. There is large
family plot there with about 3 or 4 generations of my family, dating
from about the 1850's until 1978. One kind soul wrote me to tell me
she was going there and offered to photograph several graves of my
family. She did, but I have yet to hear from her.....I'm stranded out
in California for a few months or else I'd try and make the trip. So
any ideas about how to research this place are anxiously awaited!
Sincerly, Judy

> Is there anyone here that has knowledge of Oakwood Cemetery (on Cass
> Street, I believe) in Joliet, Illinois? I remember it being quite old
> and large, in what is now considered a rough area.....

I'm no expert on Joliet's Oakwood, but have explored it three times.

My first Joliet graveyard expedition was in 2002, using only a map to
find graveyards, and thus having no idea where the good ones were.  I
spent most of the afternoon in Elmhurst Cemetery (within the city of
Joliet), then traveled to the next destination on the map at about 6 pm.
That was Mount Olivet, which features a wonderful monument in the shape
of a gothic church steeple, hollowed out, with a statue of Jesus within.
I explored it quickly, and then saw that there was a graveyard to the
west of it that was even better - a quick drive-through showed some
amazing Victorian-era monuments of unusual shapes.

But I had to leave; the sun was getting low, making photography difficult,
and I was close to (or perhaps after) the posted closing times.  I returned
a week later, early in the day, and explored both these cemeteries
thoroughly.  As this was before I had a digital camera, and film processing
is expensive, I probably didn't get more than a hundred photos of both.

Two years later, I was working on the list of Illinois governors and saw
that one - Joel A. Matteson - was buried in Oakwood.  Looking through my
photos from the previous visit, I couldn't find his monument - but there
was one very large and ornate monument in a corner of the cemetery with the
name worn away.  So I set out a third time, now with the goal of finding
the governor, and thoroughly photographing everything else there.

Oakwood is between two other cemeteries, without clear boundaries between
them.  To the east is the Catholic Mt. Olivet; to the west is an unmarked
Lutheran cemetery called Saint Peter's (a member of the congregation
doing volunteer work that day told me that it was a separate cemetery;
I had assumed it was part of Oakwood).

Entering through the main entrance on Cass street, the first prominent
feature is a Civil War memorial on the left, a small round structure
with columns supporting a roof, surrounded with military headstones.
Next, there's a very old limestone mausoleum, discoloured with age -
wonderfully sepulchral looking.  The mausoleum door is made from
limestone, rather than the more common iron or bronze.

The main road continues past these to the south edge of the cemetery,
where there is a steep drop-off to a creek far below.  There is a "tee"
in the road here.  At this intersection there is a mound of earth, about
five feet high and twenty feet across; this is a Native American burial
mound that predates the cemetery.  Turning right, we see some unique
19th-century marble monuments, very ornate and beautiful.  The first of
these is of a Civil War colonel - the local historical society has placed
a plaque on a post giving the details.  Further along this path we come
to the largest monument here - an ornate shaft surrounded with spiral
columns, flaring at the top and supporting a ball.  This was the monument
that I suspected might be the governor's.  The monument was soft marble,
and any writing had weathered away, but I found the name Matteson on
the headstones surrounding it.
	 http://www.graveyards.com/IL/Will/oakwood/matteson.html

(Those are the only Oakwood photos on my site right now - I haven't yet
done it as a "featured site", so it's present only as part of the
governors collection).


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

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> I was absolutely delighted to read your reply to Judy about Oakwood
> cemetery in Joliet.

Thanks!

> I was there a few years ago when passing through
> Joliet.  I remember driving through it and absolutely loving the
> atmosphere and monuments.  The problem was, I could not remember which
> city it was in.

That's happened to me also - the first few years of exploring graveyards, I
didn't have a good system for organizing records of where I'd been or
labeling the photos, so I had visited a few graveyards that I later forgot.

Then, I stopped doing this for a few years, working on other projects and
not touching graveyards.com at all.  The photos were stacked on shelves,
often without labels.

When I discovered the USGS dataset in '03, I then tried to match these
stacks of photos and vague memories with the sites in the list.  In most
cases, I was able to identify the location right away but a few sites
were problematic.

The last of these mystery graveyards was one I had visited in the mid-90s.
I drove into a suburban neighborhood and parked next to the cemetery.
It had a chain-link fence, and some tall monuments were visible within.
The gate was locked, and I could not get in, so I went on to my next
destination without a single photo.  I remembered its appearance,
vaguely, and this image haunted me for years... it was an unresolved
mystery several months after I had revisited or identified all the other
"mystery" sites that I had forgotten.

Finally, I found it again: it was Fullersburg Cemetery in Hinsdale.
	 http://www.graveyards.com/show.php?id=272
Residential neighbourhood with classy houses, chain link fence,
driveway leading towards the cemetery ... a perfect match.  And this
time the gate was unlocked and I could get inside.

After identifying Fullersburg, I no longer had any "forgotten"
graveyards - every cemetery that I had ever entered was identified
and catalogued, with a photo.

Eventually I hope to add a feature to the website where other users
can log in and maintain their own lists - view the listing for a
county, tick those that you'd been to, and have those listed on your
profile.  But that's a long way off...

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

Hi,

      I would like to introduce myself.  I am Jim & I used to be the
sexton of the Pleasant Hill
Cemetery in Pleasant Hill Missouri.  As a past professional, I would
like to share memories,
ideas, interests & ask you questions, but also have questions asked
of me, about different
cemeteries or monuments in different cemeteries.
      I took care of a 80 acre cemetery.  I did all the groundskeeping
work along with my
staff at that time.  I helped families arrange funerals & attempted
to help them pick out
sellable grave sites & also to help them locate their loved ones that
were presently there.
I also further assisted the general public, when they came to look up
their families history.
The key to that, is knowing as much about your ancestors as you
possibly can, before
approaching a cemetery employee.  Hence they are busy, especially in
summer & it would
make their lives much easier, if you had the proper information.
      I've been away from that business now for 20 or so years, but I
still have a strong
recollection of where almost all of the some 65,000 graves are.  If
you are in the metro
Kansas City area & need help finding a particular cemetery or need
assistance, never
hesitate to ask me.

Thanks!

>
>      I would like to introduce myself.  I am Jim & I used to be the
> sexton of the Pleasant Hill Cemetery in Pleasant Hill Missouri.

Welcome!  It's always good to have a professional here.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

--- In MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com, Matt Hucke <hucke@c...> wrote:
> >
> >      I would like to introduce myself.  I am Jim & I used to be the
> > sexton of the Pleasant Hill Cemetery in Pleasant Hill Missouri.
>
> Welcome!  It's always good to have a professional here.
>
>
> --
> hucke@c...
> http://www.graveyards.com
>
> "The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
> voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

      Matt, as a fellow Midwesterner, I am happy to be here.  Your cemeteries in
the
Chicagoland area have always fasinated me, not because of the monuments in them,
but
the professionals who dig the graves.  The interesting things they use for
winter use!

Jim

Having (finally!) finished editing the pile of photos I shot in July,
I started updating the galleries for GoM's 2nd anniversary. Good
thing, since I noticed (with some embaressment) that many of the
galleries hadn't been updated since February.
There's been a bunch of boring technical changes behind the scenes at
GoM (e.g. Wacom pen tablet, misc. software upgrades) that have slowed
down all the fun stuff (like taking and posting photos dont'cha know)
which are mostly sorted out.
More on the fun stuff as it develops...

Brian

http://www.graveyardsofmilwaukee.org

Old Settlers' Cemetery was founded in 1848.  It is located on St.
Charles Raod about 1/8 mile east of the Cook-DuPage County Line in
Berkeley, Cook County, IL.  The cemetery lies within Section 7 of
Proviso Township and withing the village limits of Berkeley.  Those
interned at Old Settlers' are placed with cemetery records of DuPage
County because most of those interred were residents of York and
Addison Townships.

At long last, I've updated the Bachelor's Grove section of graveyards.com.

Bachelor's Grove was first added to graveyards.com on 31 October 1996,
only two months after the website began.  Since then it has had only
minor revisions.

Yesterday's revision expands the site from 8 photos to 67, has all
new text, and features two "tours" of Bachelor's Grove - one using
photos from 1996, the other using photos from 2004.

http://www.graveyards.com/IL/Cook/bachelors/


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

I was out snapping a few pics at Calvary yesterday afternoon when it
occured to me that my Yahoo! members' profile had no photo. Now it
does. With the aid of a cheap tripod, there I am in front of my
favorite mausoleum.

A brief bio of its occupant, couresty of the Milwaukee Catholic
Cemerteries website.
"John Miley was prominent in the Milwaukee business community. He was
a co-founder of the G.M. Barrett Department Store and was one of the
founders of the Shorewood Woolen Mills, of which he was Vice President.
He remained active in the business until he became unable to work
because of illness one year before his death in 1922."

I stopped by Graceland the other day and got a hardcopy of a map used
by the Chgo Architecture Foundation Tour of locations of famous graves.
I have scanned it and can upload to the files section, if this would be
of value.  Is this OK, or would it be violating some copyright?

Does anyone else have maps of other cemeteries to share?

> I stopped by Graceland the other day and got a hardcopy of a map used
> by the Chgo Architecture Foundation Tour of locations of famous graves.
> I have scanned it and can upload to the files section, if this would be
> of value.  Is this OK, or would it be violating some copyright?
>
> Does anyone else have maps of other cemeteries to share?

I've refrained from posting the maps on my website because of
copyright concerns.

However... the website for this mailing list is different.  It's not possible
to get to the files section without being a member of the list; and there
are a small number of this.  Rather than publishing to a large audience,
you'd be posting to a more private space, and thus I think the likelihood
of an objection would be less.

It's probably OK.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the MidwestCemeteries
group.

   File        : /Graceland CAF Map.jpg
   Uploaded by : adgorn1 <adgorn@...>
   Description : Graceland Cemetery Map

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MidwestCemeteries/files/Graceland%20CAF%20Map.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

adgorn1 <adgorn@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the MidwestCemeteries
group.

   File        : /Queen_of_Heaven_Cemetery.jpg
   Uploaded by : adgorn1 <adgorn@...>
   Description : Queen of Heaven Map

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MidwestCemeteries/files/Queen_of_Heaven_Cemetery.j\
pg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

adgorn1 <adgorn@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the MidwestCemeteries
group.

   File        : /CEM46575128_110845503988.gif
   Uploaded by : adgorn1 <adgorn@...>
   Description : Oak Wood Cemetery Map

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MidwestCemeteries/files/CEM46575128_110845503988.g\
if

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

adgorn1 <adgorn@...>

I also dream about graveyards occasionally.  Usually they involve
walking through the dense woods located behind my grandma's old house.
It's always dark due to the trees blocking out the sun.  It seems like
I've been walking for miles, when I finally come to a clearing.  There
is a small, very old graveyard located there.  It's surrounded by a
rusty iron fence.  There are only about twenty gravestones, no
statues.  The gravestones are all covered in moss, and many of the
epitaphs have worn away.  Most are leaning, and it's very overgrown
with weeds and vines.

Then I usually wake up.  It's no surprise that's the type of graveyard
I dream about, my favorites are the small, forgotten ones in remote
areas.  I actually found a graveyard outside of Coshocton, OH this past
Saturday that almost matched the one in my dream.  Only thing missing
was the iron fence!  Well, that and most of the gravestones at this
real one had been badly vandalized.

> Thanks for sending the invitations, Matt.  I've always wanted to tell you
> (and I think I did email a year or two ago), that your site gave me courage
> to start my own graveyard site in late 1996.

Thanks!

In 1996 there were few, if any, regional graveyard sites.  The best-known
cemetery website was "City of the Silent" (which was somewhat larger
then than it is today).  Findagrave was tiny (it had only one contributor
at the time).  The Political Graveyard had just started that July, a
month before Graveyards of Chicago - but I was immediately using it
to identify Chicago locations I should visit.

"City of the Silent" was my primary inspiration.  I thought the
monument photos there were the most interesting part of the site,
and that I could do something like it for my own area - categorizing
them by location and adding whatever historical and architectural
commentary I could.

As far as I know, graveyards.com might have been the first site
dedicated to thoroughly exploring and the graveyards of a particular
city, and providing a visual record.

I'm thrilled to see that similar projects are now underway in other
major cities.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887

I haven't been to City of the Silent in ages, and I used to email back and
forth with the Political Graveyard owner, but haven't heard from him in at
least five or six years.  Findagrave was in it's infancy then, as you say,
and Jim was using only his own photos and not taking contributors.  I spent
time on all of them, but it was Graveyards of Chicago that gave me the idea
to do my own.  I still think you're the pioneer of the graveyard website.

Marta

http://www.steveandmarta.com

See the 2004 Twilight Zone Convention page!

All we are saying...
is give Peace a chance.

John Lennon
-----Original Message-----
From: MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hucke
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:03 PM
To: MidwestCemeteries@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MidwestCemeteries] Invitation


> Thanks for sending the invitations, Matt.  I've always wanted to tell you
> (and I think I did email a year or two ago), that your site gave me
courage
> to start my own graveyard site in late 1996.

Thanks!

In 1996 there were few, if any, regional graveyard sites.  The best-known
cemetery website was "City of the Silent" (which was somewhat larger
then than it is today).  Findagrave was tiny (it had only one contributor
at the time).  The Political Graveyard had just started that July, a
month before Graveyards of Chicago - but I was immediately using it
to identify Chicago locations I should visit.

"City of the Silent" was my primary inspiration.  I thought the
monument photos there were the most interesting part of the site,
and that I could do something like it for my own area - categorizing
them by location and adding whatever historical and architectural
commentary I could.

As far as I know, graveyards.com might have been the first site
dedicated to thoroughly exploring and the graveyards of a particular
city, and providing a visual record.

I'm thrilled to see that similar projects are now underway in other
major cities.


--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887




Yahoo! Groups Links

> I haven't been to City of the Silent in ages, and I used to email back and
> forth with the Political Graveyard owner, but haven't heard from him in at
> least five or six years.

He's here!  Larry joined yesterday after receiving the invitation.

> I spent time on all of them, but it was Graveyards of Chicago that
> gave me the idea to do my own.  I still think you're the pioneer
> of the graveyard website.

Thanks - it's wonderful to see other sites in the style of my own.

--
hucke@...
http://www.graveyards.com

"The day will come when our silence will be more powerful than the
voices you are throttling today." -- August Spies, 1887