On the ts16 it's a Ubolt,both "legs" pass through bow the backing block.Ubolt
spreads the load from a single eyebolt to twin retaining bolts.

 
"There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic
compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
-Sigurd Olson


________________________________
  From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 1:26 PM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 
Or you could do both. Fit a block of wood in the bow and drill an
oversize hole for the bow eye. Fill everything with thickened glop and
glas over. Then re-drill the hole to the proper size.  Have an large
washer and locked in nut. Maybe held in place with Loctite sealant.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> One way is to build a glob of epoxy and glass where you want to put
the bow
> eye. Alternatively, you could fit a block of wood inside the 'stem'
where
> you want to put the bow eye.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of okiebobby@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:58 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and
how to
> support it.
>
> The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along
with the
> taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through the
hull
> when winching to the trailer.
>
> Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline, Caprice,
> Cormorant...) provide some advice.
>
> Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck, and
> currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris & Cathy.
[Both
> links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what
you
> hope; so I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
>
> http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-go.html
>
>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/eJhahu3E8B\
g/s1
> 600/sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
>
> I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw
hell and
> back. How is the bow eye supported? Are you pleased with it? How would
you
> do it, if you had a do-over?
>
> I would like to go all out on bow eye support. Good enough for a truck
> commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being towed
and
> hung from the air.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just noticed a new photo posted to the Picara album.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/1325663064/view

Wow this looks awesome. One of my favourite designs. Anybody see
anything they would want to change in this design?

Nels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh - here are the other photos.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1273899305/pic/list

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
>
> Just noticed a new photo posted to the Picara album.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/1325663064/view
>
> Wow this looks awesome. One of my favourite designs. Anybody see
> anything they would want to change in this design?
>
> Nels
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Came across another album in photos I was not aware of.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/776366921/pic/list

Have to mention that Bolger's Long Micro is one of my favourite designs
for a very sea-worthy hull in a relatively small package. In fact Bolger
claimed it was capable of a trans-Atlantic crossing if set up properly
and in the right hands. And he was very conservative in suggesting such
a venture. To me Picara comes pretty close. And in addition has a
shorter main mast, is multi chine for even better performance in a head
sea, less draft and much easier to launch. Seeing some images in 3D
really make it stand out compared to the cartoon version.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

Nels



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
>
> Oh - here are the other photos.
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1273899305/pic/list
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" nelsarv@ wrote:
> >
> > Just noticed a new photo posted to the Picara album.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/1325663064/view
> >
> > Wow this looks awesome. One of my favourite designs. Anybody see
> > anything they would want to change in this design?
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree!  I hated the look of square boats at first, but Bolger boats tend to
grow on you.

Boat builder C.T. Merrell once said, "All delusions of grandeur aside,
Micro is more than enough boat for 95% of all boaters." Long Micro is
for the other 5%.

Both are well capable of ocean cruising in experiences hands and in
seaworthiness far superior to "Yankee Girl" which crossed the Atlantic and later
the Pacific.  I say so because Micro and Long micro are constructed with a cast
keel which makes all the difference in the world.  Now with an abundance of
freeze dried meals and a hand watermaker, range for small boats is no longer
that restricted.

Andrew



________________________________
  From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 7:09 AM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Picara


 
Came across another album in photos I was not aware of.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/776366921/pic/list

Have to mention that Bolger's Long Micro is one of my favourite designs
for a very sea-worthy hull in a relatively small package. In fact Bolger
claimed it was capable of a trans-Atlantic crossing if set up properly
and in the right hands. And he was very conservative in suggesting such
a venture. To me Picara comes pretty close. And in addition has a
shorter main mast, is multi chine for even better performance in a head
sea, less draft and much easier to launch. Seeing some images in 3D
really make it stand out compared to the cartoon version.

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/picara/index.htm

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
>
> Oh - here are the other photos.
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/album/1273899305/pic/list
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" nelsarv@ wrote:
> >
> > Just noticed a new photo posted to the Picara album.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/photos/recent/1325663064/view
> >
> > Wow this looks awesome. One of my favourite designs. Anybody see
> > anything they would want to change in this design?
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

How hard is epoxy to drill through?




________________________________
  From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 
On the ts16 it's a Ubolt,both "legs" pass through bow the backing block.Ubolt
spreads the load from a single eyebolt to twin retaining bolts.

 
"There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic
compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
-Sigurd Olson

________________________________
From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 1:26 PM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 
Or you could do both. Fit a block of wood in the bow and drill an
oversize hole for the bow eye. Fill everything with thickened glop and
glas over. Then re-drill the hole to the proper size.  Have an large
washer and locked in nut. Maybe held in place with Loctite sealant.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> One way is to build a glob of epoxy and glass where you want to put
the bow
> eye. Alternatively, you could fit a block of wood inside the 'stem'
where
> you want to put the bow eye.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of okiebobby@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:58 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and
how to
> support it.
>
> The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along
with the
> taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through the
hull
> when winching to the trailer.
>
> Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline, Caprice,
> Cormorant...) provide some advice.
>
> Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck, and
> currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris & Cathy.
[Both
> links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what
you
> hope; so I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
>
> http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-go.html
>
>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/eJhahu3E8Bg/s1
> 600/sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
>
> I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw
hell and
> back. How is the bow eye supported? Are you pleased with it? How would
you
> do it, if you had a do-over?
>
> I would like to go all out on bow eye support. Good enough for a truck
> commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being towed
and
> hung from the air.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Martin,

I have seen your videos and I really like them!

How's Jani-J?

Ron

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Martin Houston <mtnridr13@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ron. You came to the right place. There are folks here who have been
building & sailing thier boats all their lives. I recommend using the best
materials you can afford & glass the heck out of it with epoxy. Works for me. I
have videos on youtube: hustn99
> Martin
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: butterchurn2002 <amazingmisterx@...>
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:09 PM
> Subject: [Michalak] New to Group and Boat
>
>  
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> My name is Ron and I live in central Ohio.  I am new to the group and I wanted
to say "Howdy!"
>
> I have never built anything like this before so I am a little hesitant but I
thought this was a good place to come for mentoring if I have questions.
>
> I am not sure which boat to build, but I seem to be gravitating toward the
AF4.  Ultimately what I would really like to do is cruise the rivers and lakes
of the Eastern USA. I think I should get some experience with a simpler design
before I go for a canal/river cruiser that could take me on more ambitious
cruises.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Also, I am a little anxious of building in wood and wonder what to do to make
sure my investment doesn't rot.  What do you do to protect the money you put
into a wood boat?
>
> Anyhow, thanks for listening and I am looking forward to learning.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Nels,

Thanks for the links!  I enjoyed them very much.

Ron

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "prairiedog2332" <nelsarv@...> wrote:
>
> Ron,
> Being interested in an AF4 you will no doubt be interested in the
> voyages and exploits of Rene Vidmer in his AF4B.  You can read about
> some of it here in the Files section.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/Rene%20Vidmer%27s%20AF4B/
>
> Or search his name at Duckworks mag.
>
> http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/
>
> <http://www.google.com/cse?cx=partner-pub-3913451939716508%3A4xezl0-wbj7\
> &ie=ISO-8859-1&q=rene+vidmer&sa=Search#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=rene%20vidmer&gsc\
> .page=1>
>
> Rene has well over 8,000 miles on his "Kiss Of The Wolf". And get this -
> I hear it is over somewhere in northern Europe now - I think Finland? He
> is looking for another one to use back home in the Allenstown PA and
> around Florida area.
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/af4/breve/index.htm
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "butterchurn2002" <amazingmisterx@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the replies.  I feel better about building with wood and
> keeping it in good shape after reading your replies.  This appears to be
> a very friendly group and I am going to enjoy learning from all of you.
> >
> > Ron
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hello Dennis,

I have looked at all youyr pictures of Skat. Congratulations on a superb
build. She is beautiful, you must be very proud.

You may have seen my forum topic post  titled "WHICH BOAT TO BUILD"in
which I describe the parameters for the type of bsailboat to build as my
first boat build.  I have decided on two boats as candidates for my boat
build; Skat and and Mayfly 12.   I am leaaning toward Skat for the
following reasons.  V Hull vs "Flattie, Seats, and a more classic
looking design.

I wonder if  I could impose on you to provide me with a little advice
and information regarding the build of your Skat.      First do you
believe this is an appropriate boat for a first time boat builder?
Approximately how many labor  hours did you expend building the boat.
In one of your pics you show the base of the mast.  Could you tell what
material you used for the mast, it appears to be PVC pipe??   Also what
is your boom and gaff material?    Did you glass both hull and bottom
panels or just the bottom panels?   And lastly what is your opinion
regarding the quality of the Michalak plans?

Any other advice or infomation that you could offer would be greatly
appreciated.

Many thanks,

Colin Buxton


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Dennis Marshall <fiddleguy2@...> wrote:
>
> She sails like a dream  Here's a link to some pics of the process:
>
> http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk270/fiddlerami/2012/April/Skat/
>
> Dennis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The square opening in the aft deck is the "footwell" one sits on the deck and
places the feet and legs into the well. Likely one could have the foot well long
enough to seat at least three. I raised the deck in the cabin at the aft end abt
10 inches to get a flat sleeping area and place a well in that area large enougn
to seat 2 to 4 more people - depending on size of the people. The footwell has a
raised lip about 1.5 inches high to keep water out of the footwell , I place a 2
inch boat cushing behind that and also installed backrest, worked out OK, also
one can sit with ones feet on the oppisite side of the footwell to brace
oneself.

David

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <billh39@...> wrote:
>
> I bought plans about a year ago, and have been building a 1/8 scale model in
anticipation of (fantasy!) building a full size boat.
>
> I have completed the hull, stern deck and cabin deck.
>
> But there seems to be no seats on the stern deck.
>
> Is the skipper and others expected to just sprawl on the stern deck,
Birdwatcher fashion?
>
> I was expecting seats.
>
> What am I missing?
>

Thanks Ron. The Jani J is now Winterized & waiting for Summer & warm weather.
We now have a 2005 Ford F350 to tow her with & plan on going to Lake Oahe,
Missouri River for a week then. We have outgrown the Black Hills lakes & need
some big water. Maby the Gulf Coast. Going to check it out when I do the Texas
200 in June.
Martin


________________________________
  From: butterchurn2002 <amazingmisterx@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 7:27 PM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: New to Group and Boat


 

Hi Martin,

I have seen your videos and I really like them!

How's Jani-J?

Ron

--- In mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com, Martin Houston <mtnridr13@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Ron. You came to the right place. There are folks here who have been
building & sailing thier boats all their lives. I recommend using the best
materials you can afford & glass the heck out of it with epoxy. Works for me. I
have videos on youtube: hustn99
> Martin
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: butterchurn2002 <amazingmisterx@...>
> To: mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2012 7:09 PM
> Subject: [Michalak] New to Group and Boat
>
>  
>
> Hello Everyone!
>
> My name is Ron and I live in central Ohio.  I am new to the group and I wanted
to say "Howdy!"
>
> I have never built anything like this before so I am a little hesitant but I
thought this was a good place to come for mentoring if I have questions.
>
> I am not sure which boat to build, but I seem to be gravitating toward the
AF4.  Ultimately what I would really like to do is cruise the rivers and lakes
of the Eastern USA. I think I should get some experience with a simpler design
before I go for a canal/river cruiser that could take me on more ambitious
cruises.
>
> What do you think?
>
> Also, I am a little anxious of building in wood and wonder what to do to make
sure my investment doesn't rot.  What do you do to protect the money you put
into a wood boat?
>
> Anyhow, thanks for listening and I am looking forward to learning.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A few inches for a 5/8ths bolt won't kill your drill.

On Dec 2, 2012, at 2:38 PM, Carl Volkwein wrote:

> How hard is epoxy to drill through?
>
> ________________________________
> From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
> To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
>
> On the ts16 it's a Ubolt,both "legs" pass through bow the backing
> block.Ubolt spreads the load from a single eyebolt to twin
> retaining bolts.
>
>
> "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a
> canoe, a magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and
> peace."
> -Sigurd Olson
>
> ________________________________
> From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 1:26 PM
> Subject: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
> Or you could do both. Fit a block of wood in the bow and drill an
> oversize hole for the bow eye. Fill everything with thickened glop and
> glas over. Then re-drill the hole to the proper size. Have an large
> washer and locked in nut. Maybe held in place with Loctite sealant.
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > One way is to build a glob of epoxy and glass where you want to put
> the bow
> > eye. Alternatively, you could fit a block of wood inside the 'stem'
> where
> > you want to put the bow eye.
> >
> >
> >
> > JohnT
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of okiebobby@...
> > Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:58 PM
> > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Michalak] Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and
> how to
> > support it.
> >
> > The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along
> with the
> > taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through
> the
> hull
> > when winching to the trailer.
> >
> > Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline,
> Caprice,
> > Cormorant...) provide some advice.
> >
> > Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck,
> and
> > currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris &
> Cathy.
> [Both
> > links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what
> you
> > hope; so I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
> >
> > http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-
> go.html
> >
> >
> http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/
> eJhahu3E8Bg/s1
> > 600/sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
> >
> > I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw
> hell and
> > back. How is the bow eye supported? Are you pleased with it? How
> would
> you
> > do it, if you had a do-over?
> >
> > I would like to go all out on bow eye support. Good enough for a
> truck
> > commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being
> towed
> and
> > hung from the air.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

its plastic! The drill wont know its there!

 
"There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic
compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
-Sigurd Olson


________________________________
  From: Carl Volkwein <carlvolkwein@...>
To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 
How hard is epoxy to drill through?

________________________________
From: john colley <Helliconia54@...>
To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 2, 2012 5:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 
On the ts16 it's a Ubolt,both "legs" pass through bow the backing block.Ubolt
spreads the load from a single eyebolt to twin retaining bolts.

 
"There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a magic
compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
-Sigurd Olson

________________________________
From: prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, 2 December 2012 1:26 PM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline

 
Or you could do both. Fit a block of wood in the bow and drill an
oversize hole for the bow eye. Fill everything with thickened glop and
glas over. Then re-drill the hole to the proper size.  Have an large
washer and locked in nut. Maybe held in place with Loctite sealant.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John Trussell" <jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> One way is to build a glob of epoxy and glass where you want to put
the bow
> eye. Alternatively, you could fit a block of wood inside the 'stem'
where
> you want to put the bow eye.
>
>
>
> JohnT
>
>
>
>   _____
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of okiebobby@...
> Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 3:58 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and
how to
> support it.
>
> The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along
with the
> taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through the
hull
> when winching to the trailer.
>
> Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline, Caprice,
> Cormorant...) provide some advice.
>
> Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck, and
> currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris & Cathy.
[Both
> links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what
you
> hope; so I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
>
> http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-go.html
>
>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/eJhahu3E8Bg/s1
> 600/sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
>
> I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw
hell and
> back. How is the bow eye supported? Are you pleased with it? How would
you
> do it, if you had a do-over?
>
> I would like to go all out on bow eye support. Good enough for a truck
> commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being towed
and
> hung from the air.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Drilling an over-sized hole, filling it with goop and then drilling the
correct sized hole means that the edge grain of the plywood gets sealed.
So only applies to plywood for the most part.

It is also very important to do this for any  scupper openings or
self-draining end wells  that are popular in Michalak and Bolger
designs. Try to seal any edge grain as best you can and make sure they
stay open. Dead leaves and dirt stuck in drains is not a good combo.
Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:
>
> its plastic! The drill wont know its there!
>
> Â
> "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a
magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
> -Sigurd Olson
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Carl Volkwein carlvolkwein@...
> To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 9:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
>
>
> Â
> How hard is epoxy to drill through?
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Using the oversized hole / epoxy technique, I will actually tap a thread
into the epoxy and then back that with a backing plate or giant washer and
a nut.

Hajo
--

"I can’t believe I’ve turned into a typical old man. I can’t believe it. I
was young just minutes ago..." (M. Sendak)



On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:56 AM, prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Drilling an over-sized hole, filling it with goop and then drilling the
> correct sized hole means that the edge grain of the plywood gets sealed.
> So only applies to plywood for the most part.
>
> It is also very important to do this for any scupper openings or
> self-draining end wells that are popular in Michalak and Bolger
> designs. Try to seal any edge grain as best you can and make sure they
> stay open. Dead leaves and dirt stuck in drains is not a good combo.
> Nels
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:
> >
> > its plastic! The drill wont know its there!
> >
> > Â
> > "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a
> magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
> > -Sigurd Olson
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Carl Volkwein carlvolkwein@...
>
> > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
> >
> >
> > Â
> > How hard is epoxy to drill through?
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My course of action on a s&g boat like Caroline would be to beef up the fillet
with milled fibers in the epoxy mix, and maybe use a wider than normal tape in
the bow area. Or reinforce with some scrap cloth. All in an effort to spread the
load to a greater area. Then drill through the fillet, and use a stainless
u-bolt and some sort of backing plate. 5/8 sounds overkill, I'd think a 3/8
would suffice. Instead of Hajo's washer backing plate, I used a nylon cleat. It
serves for tying off the anchor line or for mooring. I had to bore the holes out
a little on the cleat, but the spacing was right for the u-bolt I used. As
always, more than one way to skin this particular cat.
Best,
Joe
--inal Message ----
From: Hajo Smulders <hajosmulders@...>
To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" <Michalak@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, December 3, 2012 9:00:23 AM
Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline

Using the oversized hole / epoxy technique, I will actually tap a thread
into the epoxy and then back that with a backing plate or giant washer and
a nut.

Hajo
--

"I can’t believe I’ve turned into a typical old man. I can’t believe it. I
was young just minutes ago..." (M. Sendak)



On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:56 AM, prairiedog2332 <nelsarv@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Drilling an over-sized hole, filling it with goop and then drilling the
> correct sized hole means that the edge grain of the plywood gets sealed.
> So only applies to plywood for the most part.
>
> It is also very important to do this for any scupper openings or
> self-draining end wells that are popular in Michalak and Bolger
> designs. Try to seal any edge grain as best you can and make sure they
> stay open. Dead leaves and dirt stuck in drains is not a good combo.
> Nels
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, john colley <Helliconia54@...> wrote:
> >
> > its plastic! The drill wont know its there!
> >
> > Â
> > "There is magic in the feel of a paddle and the movement of a canoe, a
> magic compounded of distance, adventure, solitude, and peace."
> > -Sigurd Olson
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Carl Volkwein carlvolkwein@...
>
> > To: "Michalak@yahoogroups.com" Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, 3 December 2012 9:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline
> >
> >
> > Â
> > How hard is epoxy to drill through?
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Hiu All
    Is there a web site for 2013  Rend Lake mesabout'?
Eugene

No website, but there is a Yahoo group:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messabout_rendlake/?yguid=190731872

The event takes place the weekend before Father's Day, this year its June 7,8,9.
Its at the North Sandusky Campground on Rend Lake. "Messabout Central" is on the
shoreline at the end of the Ringneck Loop of campsites. Reservations can be made
6 months in advance, which is later this week. Go to www.recreation.gov for more
info or to make reservations.
Super fun event , and I hope you can make it.



________________________________
From: Eugene Dixon <edixon193941@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, December 3, 2012 11:22:00 AM
Subject: [Michalak] Rend Lake


Hiu All
Is there a web site for 2013  Rend Lake mesabout'?
Eugene




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Consider winch heigth on the trailer!  Consider glassing the inside of the hull
and adding a cross piece to anchor the bolt (s) into to spread the loading of
any strain / pull  from the Bow eye

David

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "okiebobby@..." <okiebobby@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and how to
support it.
>
> The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along with the
taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through the hull when
winching to the trailer.
>
> Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline, Caprice,
Cormorant...) provide some advice.
>
> Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck, and
currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris & Cathy.  [Both
links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what you hope; so
I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
>
> http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-go.html
>
>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/eJhahu3E8Bg/s1600/\
sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
>
> I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw hell and
back.  How is the bow eye supported?  Are you pleased with it?  How would you do
it, if you had a do-over?
>
> I would like to go all out on bow eye support.  Good enough for a truck
commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being towed and hung
from the air.
>

I would add a wood stem, glass it in heavily & bolt her through with sealant.
Could lift the whole boat with it.



________________________________
  From: sharpie3444 <sharpie3444@...>
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 3, 2012 6:52 PM
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Bow eye placement / support for Caroline


 

Consider winch heigth on the trailer!  Consider glassing the inside of the hull
and adding a cross piece to anchor the bolt (s) into to spread the loading of
any strain / pull  from the Bow eye

David

--- In mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com, "okiebobby@..." <okiebobby@...> wrote:
>
> I'm looking for help on where to place the bow eye on Caroline, and how to
support it.
>
> The sharp bow lines of Caroline and the other Toto prodigies, along with the
taped seems, makes me concerned about ripping the bow eye through the hull when
winching to the trailer.
>
> Could anybody with a heavier version of Toto (e.g. Caroline, Caprice,
Cormorant...) provide some advice.
>
> Here is a link to to a picture of Pearl built by Duckworks Chuck, and
currently listed for sale (for a song) by Honeymooners Chris & Cathy.  [Both
links go to the same photo, but sometimes these links don't do what you hope; so
I'm using a belt and suspenders here]:
>
> http://c2cruising.blogspot.com/2012/10/loaded-up-and-ready-to-go.html
>
>
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-yORKInUgfpg/UHbb5I4zzpI/AAAAAAAAAAc/eJhahu3E8Bg/s1600/\
sail+oklahoma+and+misc+005.JPG
>
> I know this boat has to be as tuff as nails since it has been threw hell and
back.  How is the bow eye supported?  Are you pleased with it?  How would you do
it, if you had a do-over?
>
> I would like to go all out on bow eye support.  Good enough for a truck
commercial where they show unbelievable amounts of things being towed and hung
from the air.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I caught myself in a 'Michalak Circle' today.

History:  Triloboats Dave in furledsails.com podcast #131 or #132 stated that
when he and Anke were building a Bolger boat; they kept getting caught in
'Bolger Circles.'  He explained they would think of modifying the build of their
boat, but ultimately end-up back to the way Bolger had originally designed
things, after thinking of the negatives affects of the changes.

Well I've been thinking I'd like less wind resistance, as opposed to the flat
front windows on Caroline.  I've thought about different ways, and most result
in less forward headroom.  Headroom seems like a good thing, so I haven't
continued down this path.  Also, I thought it would be nice to have more
storage.

Today it hit me, I could angle the front deck so that it rises more toward the
cabin.  This would reduce windage without reducing headroom, and also give me
more storage under the deck.

I draw in the draft modification on Sketchup, and then the negative hits me. 
Raising the foredeck also means it would be more difficult to get in and out of
the cabin.  So I 'circled' back, scrapping the modification.

At that moment, I thought of the term coined by Dave.

I consider Michalak's plans to be the most Bolger like of small boat designers. 
This is quite a compliment.  In addition, I would even say Michalak has designed
boats that may be improvements (considering your needs) on similar Bolger boats;
which is a bold statement.

So the 'Michalak Circle' shouldn't have surprised me.

I agree with your sentiment wholeheartedly.

Joe
On 12/3/2012 8:09 PM, okiebobby@... wrote:
>
> I caught myself in a 'Michalak Circle' today.
>
> History: Triloboats Dave in furledsails.com podcast #131 or #132
> stated that when he and Anke were building a Bolger boat; they kept
> getting caught in 'Bolger Circles.' He explained they would think of
> modifying the build of their boat, but ultimately end-up back to the
> way Bolger had originally designed things, after thinking of the
> negatives affects of the changes.
>
> Well I've been thinking I'd like less wind resistance, as opposed to
> the flat front windows on Caroline. I've thought about different ways,
> and most result in less forward headroom. Headroom seems like a good
> thing, so I haven't continued down this path. Also, I thought it would
> be nice to have more storage.
>
> Today it hit me, I could angle the front deck so that it rises more
> toward the cabin. This would reduce windage without reducing headroom,
> and also give me more storage under the deck.
>
> I draw in the draft modification on Sketchup, and then the negative
> hits me. Raising the foredeck also means it would be more difficult to
> get in and out of the cabin. So I 'circled' back, scrapping the
> modification.
>
> At that moment, I thought of the term coined by Dave.
>
> I consider Michalak's plans to be the most Bolger like of small boat
> designers. This is quite a compliment. In addition, I would even say
> Michalak has designed boats that may be improvements (considering your
> needs) on similar Bolger boats; which is a bold statement.
>
> So the 'Michalak Circle' shouldn't have surprised me.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hard to think about next summer's messabouts already, but the early bird
gets the worm when it comes to campsites. The Rend Lake Messabout is
only 6 months away!
The event takes place the weekend before Father's Day, this year its
June 7,8,9. Its at the North Sandusky Campground on Rend Lake.
"Messabout Central" is on the shoreline at the end of the Ringneck Loop
of campsites. Reservations can be made 6 months in advance, which is
later this week. Go to www.recreation.gov for more
info or to make reservations.
Don't despair if you can't commit to a reservation this week, it's a
large campground plus there's usually space for sublet.
There is no event website, but there is a Yahoo group. Please use it for
communications specifically around this event, to keep from clogging the
Michalak Forum:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/messabout_rendlake/?yguid=190731872
Super fun event , and I hope you all can make it.

Best,
Joe

i remember seeing pics of a Caroline that had slanted front windows somewhere.
the builder was quite happy with it as i recall.

Gene Berry

--- On Tue, 12/4/12, okiebobby@... <okiebobby@...> wrote:

From: okiebobby@... <okiebobby@...>
Subject: [Michalak] Michalak Circles
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 2:09 AM
















 









       I caught myself in a 'Michalak Circle' today.



History:  Triloboats Dave in furledsails.com podcast #131 or #132 stated that
when he and Anke were building a Bolger boat; they kept getting caught in
'Bolger Circles.'  He explained they would think of modifying the build of their
boat, but ultimately end-up back to the way Bolger had originally designed
things, after thinking of the negatives affects of the changes.



Well I've been thinking I'd like less wind resistance, as opposed to the flat
front windows on Caroline.  I've thought about different ways, and most result
in less forward headroom.  Headroom seems like a good thing, so I haven't
continued down this path.  Also, I thought it would be nice to have more
storage.



Today it hit me, I could angle the front deck so that it rises more toward the
cabin.  This would reduce windage without reducing headroom, and also give me
more storage under the deck.



I draw in the draft modification on Sketchup, and then the negative hits me. 
Raising the foredeck also means it would be more difficult to get in and out of
the cabin.  So I 'circled' back, scrapping the modification.



At that moment, I thought of the term coined by Dave.



I consider Michalak's plans to be the most Bolger like of small boat designers. 
This is quite a compliment.  In addition, I would even say Michalak has designed
boats that may be improvements (considering your needs) on similar Bolger boats;
which is a bold statement.



So the 'Michalak Circle' shouldn't have surprised me.



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Gene,

Don't encourage me, but if you come across the pics again, please post a link. 
From the geese you have built, I can tell we have similar taste in boats!

Bobby

http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/10/projects/caroline/index.htm
try this link for the story. the guy doesn't go into great detail how he did it
but with the pics you will get the jest of it. i have Caroline plans and came
this close (holding finger and thumb very very close together) to building her
but i think (90% sure) i am going to build Jukebox 2 instead.

Gene Berry

--- On Tue, 12/4/12, okiebobby@... <okiebobby@...> wrote:

From: okiebobby@... <okiebobby@...>
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Michalak Circles
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 4, 2012, 4:09 AM
















 









       Gene,



Don't encourage me, but if you come across the pics again, please post a link. 
From the geese you have built, I can tell we have similar taste in boats!



Bobby



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

what file size should i cut the Rabl Lofting book scan into? I am omitting the
segment on steel plate rolling. Tim P Anderson swamp dwelling boat builder

Yahoo says... Each group has 100MB of server space allocated for Files and a 5MB
limit per upload (i.e. per file).

Do you have an estimate of what the total space needed might be?

Might have to find someplace else to host the files - ?Duckworks?



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "naturalist71261" <naturalist71261@...> wrote:
>
> what file size should i cut the Rabl Lofting book scan into? I am omitting the
segment on steel plate rolling. Tim P Anderson swamp dwelling boat builder
>

Someday I'd like someone here (who has the background for it) to explain how to
work out or compare wind resistance of different shapes, given the same
cross-sectional area.  Like most people, I am conflicted: like headroom, dislike
wind resistance.  Also, I suspect that, even with the boat hard on the wind,
most of the wind's force on the topsides and house is from the side.  Is a house
with steeply-sloped sides (Selway-Fisher Ptarmigan comes to mind) noticeably
faster or more close-winded than a square house like most Michalaks?


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "okiebobby@..." <okiebobby@...> wrote:
>
> I caught myself in a 'Michalak Circle' today.
>
> History:  Triloboats Dave in furledsails.com podcast #131 or #132 stated that
when he and Anke were building a Bolger boat; they kept getting caught in
'Bolger Circles.'  He explained they would think of modifying the build of their
boat, but ultimately end-up back to the way Bolger had originally designed
things, after thinking of the negatives affects of the changes.
>
> Well I've been thinking I'd like less wind resistance, as opposed to the flat
front windows on Caroline.  I've thought about different ways, and most result
in less forward headroom.  Headroom seems like a good thing, so I haven't
continued down this path.  Also, I thought it would be nice to have more
storage.
>
> Today it hit me, I could angle the front deck so that it rises more toward the
cabin.  This would reduce windage without reducing headroom, and also give me
more storage under the deck.
>
> I draw in the draft modification on Sketchup, and then the negative hits me. 
Raising the foredeck also means it would be more difficult to get in and out of
the cabin.  So I 'circled' back, scrapping the modification.
>
> At that moment, I thought of the term coined by Dave.
>
> I consider Michalak's plans to be the most Bolger like of small boat
designers.  This is quite a compliment.  In addition, I would even say Michalak
has designed boats that may be improvements (considering your needs) on similar
Bolger boats; which is a bold statement.
>
> So the 'Michalak Circle' shouldn't have surprised me.
>

Well, unless your making a very shallow-angled top-side (too shallow to
probably make more than a few inches difference on an 8' beam), you're best
bet is to calculate the entire profile of the boat with respect to the wind
as sail area.  That's what you do for radio antennae on towers.

Curvature pretty much doesn't mean anything (although, mesh antennae loses
area as a function of the mesh density).  This is referred to as
"flat-plate area".  Even putting say a 15* angle on your sides won't really
make any difference,as the tiny amount of deflection will
be minuscule compared to the parasitic drag of the surface.

Don


On Tue, Dec 4, 2012 at 4:10 PM, JeffreyM <JMichalsbr@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Someday I'd like someone here (who has the background for it) to explain
> how to work out or compare wind resistance of different shapes, given the
> same cross-sectional area. Like most people, I am conflicted: like
> headroom, dislike wind resistance. Also, I suspect that, even with the boat
> hard on the wind, most of the wind's force on the topsides and house is
> from the side. Is a house with steeply-sloped sides (Selway-Fisher
> Ptarmigan comes to mind) noticeably faster or more close-winded than a
> square house like most Michalaks?
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "okiebobby@..." <okiebobby@...> wrote:
> >
> > I caught myself in a 'Michalak Circle' today.
> >
> > History: Triloboats Dave in furledsails.com podcast #131 or #132 stated
> that when he and Anke were building a Bolger boat; they kept getting caught
> in 'Bolger Circles.' He explained they would think of modifying the build
> of their boat, but ultimately end-up back to the way Bolger had originally
> designed things, after thinking of the negatives affects of the changes.
> >
> > Well I've been thinking I'd like less wind resistance, as opposed to the
> flat front windows on Caroline. I've thought about different ways, and most
> result in less forward headroom. Headroom seems like a good thing, so I
> haven't continued down this path. Also, I thought it would be nice to have
> more storage.
> >
> > Today it hit me, I could angle the front deck so that it rises more
> toward the cabin. This would reduce windage without reducing headroom, and
> also give me more storage under the deck.
> >
> > I draw in the draft modification on Sketchup, and then the negative hits
> me. Raising the foredeck also means it would be more difficult to get in
> and out of the cabin. So I 'circled' back, scrapping the modification.
> >
> > At that moment, I thought of the term coined by Dave.
> >
> > I consider Michalak's plans to be the most Bolger like of small boat
> designers. This is quite a compliment. In addition, I would even say
> Michalak has designed boats that may be improvements (considering your
> needs) on similar Bolger boats; which is a bold statement.
> >
> > So the 'Michalak Circle' shouldn't have surprised me.
> >
>
>
>



--
"I don't necessarily believe that software should be free, but if you pay
for it, it should work." -- Me


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]