Stan,
There must be a mistake in terminology.  A tabernacle does not have a
space around it.  It penetrates the deck but should be glued, and
attached well to the deck immediately at and below the deck level.  The
deck and tabernacle at the deck should be "one" structurally.
johninbastrop

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:40:35 -0000 "scr243" <scr243@...> writes:

I don't know how Chuck seals his tabernacle, Contact Chuck and find out.
The tabernacle is fixed into place through the cabin top so there should
be a way to seal it with no leakage.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stan,
>
> How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another
fellow that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems
Schooner. Not only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a
problem when at anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you
have to un-seal it to lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again.
Probably some sort of sleeve made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?
>
> Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola
is meant to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length -
as the ends immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to
some surprising speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more
upright and would be more comfortable for sure.
>
> Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas
Viola is 3/8 doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty
water containers inside and without the iron ballast.
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > Nels,
> >
> >
> > Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal
rain and spray.
> >
> > Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
> >
> > Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design,
just reinforce the area. weight is weight as long as it is in the right
area.
> >
> > Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a
whole lot better boat.
> >
> > Question- Have you sailed on the coast much? Sailing on the coast is
quieter than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the
motorheads to spread out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded
lake, there are very few PWC, and the winds are usually better without
the hills.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> > >
> > > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> > >
> > > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> > >
> > > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily
be
> > > added.
> > >
> > > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage
space
> > > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron
bars
> > > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > > stability. The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from
a
> > > launch ramp.)
> > >
> > > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an
easier
> > > build and lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > > enough of already.
> > >
> > > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > > doing nothing:-)
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's
impressive.
> > > Lots
> > > > of space. He calls the spaces between the cabin and the
companionway
> > > his
> > > > "utility rooms".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too. Caprice is a nice boat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com]
On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of scr243
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nells,
> > > >
> > > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft.
Caprice,
> > > which
> > > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of
size
> > > the flat
> > > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine
hull,
> > > and if
> > > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday.
If
> > > you are
> > > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > > possibilities?
> > > >
> > > > Stan
> > > >
> > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > "Nels
> > > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans
from a
> > > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something
I
> > > should
> > > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal
draft
> > > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned
an
> > > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for
$690
> > > > > AUS.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and
more
> > > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple
and
> > > > > cheaper to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls
a
> > > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a
rig
> > > in
> > > > > his newsletter:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > > pilothouse
> > > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft
into
> > > the
> > > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for
two,
> > > but
> > > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches
and
> > > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > > pilothouse to
> > > > > enjoy the view.
> > > > >
> > > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > > bulkhead
> > > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > > gravity,
> > > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > > affects
> > > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind
side
> > > to
> > > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > > >
> > > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the
wind
> > > as
> > > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would
also
> > > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as
the
> > > main
> > > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile
addition.
> > > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are
the
> > > norm
> > > > > along a coastline.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nels
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know how Chuck seals his tabernacle, Contact Chuck and find out.  The
tabernacle is fixed into place through the cabin top so there should be a way to
seal it with no leakage.

Stan



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stan,
>
> How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another fellow 
that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems Schooner. Not
only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a problem when at
anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you have to un-seal it to
lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again. Probably some sort of sleeve
made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?
>
> Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola is meant
to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length - as the ends
immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to some surprising
speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more upright and would be
more comfortable for sure.
>
> Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas Viola is
3/8 doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty water containers
inside and without the iron ballast.
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > Nels,
> >
> >
> > Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.
> >
> > Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
> >
> > Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just
reinforce the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.
> >
> > Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole
lot better boat.
> >
> > Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is
quieter than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to
spread out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few
PWC, and the winds are usually better without the hills.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> > >
> > > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> > >
> > > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> > >
> > > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> > > added.
> > >
> > > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> > > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> > > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > > stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> > > launch ramp.)
> > >
> > > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> > > build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > > enough of already.
> > >
> > > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > > doing nothing:-)
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> > > Lots
> > > > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> > > his
> > > > "utility rooms".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of scr243
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nells,
> > > >
> > > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> > > which
> > > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> > > the flat
> > > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> > > and if
> > > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> > > you are
> > > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > > possibilities?
> > > >
> > > > Stan
> > > >
> > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > "Nels
> > > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> > > should
> > > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > > > AUS.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > > > cheaper to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> > > in
> > > > > his newsletter:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > > pilothouse
> > > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> > > the
> > > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> > > but
> > > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > > pilothouse to
> > > > > enjoy the view.
> > > > >
> > > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > > bulkhead
> > > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > > gravity,
> > > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > > affects
> > > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> > > to
> > > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > > >
> > > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> > > as
> > > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> > > main
> > > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> > > norm
> > > > > along a coastline.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nels
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Moving the mainmast forward to an existing bulkhead and using a mizzen to
compensate in bringing the C.E. back to the leeboard sounds like a better idea. 
Personally I would get the divided rig to work regardless of time involved
before I gave up the open space.  Do the math first though, you probably need a
smaller main and a larger mizzen.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if
I'm not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X
6', with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.
>
> With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead
in the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not
good.
>
> I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.
>
> The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer
to the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Tom Andrews
>

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> ....but it also reminds me I am looking at a water-based
> paint, another fellow used to successfully apply fibergass and fill the
> weave using an added filler, instead of using epoxy. Will try it first
> on a small hull I am refurbishing that only had epoxy on the taped
> joints.
>

I think you will be successful with this approach.  IMO the fabric lets one pile
on a thicker barrier against water with the mechanical support of the paint
while liquid.  Fiberglass will also provide some mechanical scuff protection. 
This thicker barrier should better protect the wood, and (I hope) resist
checking by reducing swelling and shrinking of the wood.

The levels of mechanical protection will certainly be lower than with epoxy, but
that's not the comparison to make.  The paint impregnated cloth barrier should
be compared to paint alone.

IMO the big advantage to this paint scheme is lower risk of toxicity to the boat
builder.

This all raises a question.  Have any experienced checking with boats built of
MDO?

Hi,
My guess is that the removable idea will be too annoying and you won't want to
bother doing it after a while.
If you already have the sail, could you rig it as a gaff using the mast at the
bulkhead?
Might put it at about the right place...
If you dont already have it, why not make one with proportions that 'fit'.
Probably means longer in the foot and thus lower in the hoist/luff?
But, people who use them reckon mizzens are good!
Cheers,
Alan.

--- On Mon, 23/11/09, Tom <tomandrews36@...> wrote:


From: Tom <tomandrews36@...>
Subject: [Michalak] Question about adding a sail rig:
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 23 November, 2009, 8:22 AM


I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if I'm
not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X 6',
with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.

With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead in
the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not good. 

I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.

The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer to
the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tom Andrews



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan,

Great comeback, but it also reminds me I am looking at a water-based
paint, another fellow used to successfully apply fibergass and fill the
weave using an added filler, instead of using epoxy. Will try it first
on a small hull I am refurbishing that only had epoxy on the taped
joints.

I also already have a mizzen sail too, that might work:-)

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:
>
> So just a little bit of painting and you're all done!!
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> Cheers,
> Alan,
> ( who has done almost nothing towards his own project in the last
6months!)
>
> --- On Sun, 22/11/09, Nels A arvent@... wrote:
> *SNIPPED
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if I'm
not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X 6',
with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.

With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead in
the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not good.

I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.

The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer to
the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tom Andrews

So just a little bit of painting and you're all done!!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Cheers,
Alan,
( who has done almost nothing towards his own project in the last 6months!)

--- On Sun, 22/11/09, Nels A <arvent@...> wrote:
*SNIPPED

I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.

Nels

-




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I fiberglassed the bottom of my Twister today, I put a couple more pictures in
the twister folder.  Twisting the bottom wasn't as big a deal as I thought it
might be.  I used a ratchet stap to pull it into shape while I wire tied it.

I am wondering about the pro's and con's of free flooding motor well's.  Is the
affect on bouyancy of the rear of the boat affected negatively or is it
generally not noticable?  I am thinking about making drain holes that I can
plug.  Anyone have any experiences?

Owen





--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@...> wrote:
>
> I'm glad to see someone building a Twister, I was always curious how well the
design would sail.  What modification are you making to the cabin?
>
> Stan
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "owen" <obuerkle@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey folks, I haven't posted here before but I started building a Twister a
couple months ago so I thought I would let anyone who was interested know.  A
while ago someone on this group suggested a modification to make it so you can
lay down in the cabin.  I am doing that with my boat so thanks for the idea.  I
put a couple of pictures in the photos section under "twister"
> >
> > Owen
> >
>

Hi Stan,

How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another fellow 
that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems Schooner. Not
only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a problem when at
anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you have to un-seal it to
lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again. Probably some sort of sleeve
made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?

Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola is meant
to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length - as the ends
immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to some surprising
speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more upright and would be
more comfortable for sure.

Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas Viola is 3/8
doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty water containers
inside and without the iron ballast.

I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@...> wrote:
>
> Nels,
>
>
> Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.
>
> Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
>
> Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just
reinforce the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.
>
> Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole lot
better boat.
>
> Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is quieter
than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to spread
out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few PWC,
and the winds are usually better without the hills.
>
>
>
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> >
> > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> >
> > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> >
> > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> > added.
> >
> > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> > launch ramp.)
> >
> > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> > build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > enough of already.
> >
> > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > doing nothing:-)
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> > Lots
> > > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> > his
> > > "utility rooms".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of scr243
> > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nells,
> > >
> > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> > which
> > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> > the flat
> > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> > and if
> > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> > you are
> > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > possibilities?
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Nels
> > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> > should
> > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > >
> > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > > AUS.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > >
> > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > > cheaper to build.
> > > >
> > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> > in
> > > > his newsletter:
> > > >
> > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > >
> > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > pilothouse
> > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> > the
> > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> > but
> > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > pilothouse to
> > > > enjoy the view.
> > > >
> > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > bulkhead
> > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > >
> > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > gravity,
> > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > affects
> > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> > to
> > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > >
> > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> > as
> > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> > main
> > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> > norm
> > > > along a coastline.
> > > >
> > > > Nels
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Nels,


Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.

Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice

Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just reinforce
the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.

Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole lot
better boat.

Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is quieter
than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to spread
out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few PWC,
and the winds are usually better without the hills.



Stan








--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
>
> Some things that attract me to the Viola.
>
> Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> getting into the living area from down the mast.
>
> The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> added.
>
> Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> launch ramp.)
>
> The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> enough of already.
>
> I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> doing nothing:-)
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> Lots
> > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> his
> > "utility rooms".
> >
> >
> >
> > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> >
> >
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of scr243
> > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nells,
> >
> > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> which
> > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> the flat
> > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> and if
> > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> you are
> > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> possibilities?
> >
> > Stan
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Nels
> > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> should
> > > consider at some point:-)
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > >
> > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > AUS.
> > >
> > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > >
> > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > cheaper to build.
> > >
> > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> in
> > > his newsletter:
> > >
> > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > >
> > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> pilothouse
> > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> the
> > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> but
> > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> pilothouse to
> > > enjoy the view.
> > >
> > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> bulkhead
> > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > >
> > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> gravity,
> > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> affects
> > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> to
> > > help stabilize the hull.
> > >
> > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> as
> > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> main
> > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> norm
> > > along a coastline.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I posted the following article to files from an Australian magazine
about an NIS23 sailing from OZ to Tasmania across Bass Strait which can
be quite notorious.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/Sharpie%20Sailing%20on%20B\
ass%20Strait/>

Granted - this is not a Michalak sharpie like Viola - and the sailor had
oodles of experience. So I would NOT  try something like this myself.
But it gives some indication of the capabilities of the sharpie design.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
>
> Some things that attract me to the Viola.
>
> Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> getting into the living area from down the mast.
>
> The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> added.
>
> Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron
bars
> can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> launch ramp.)
>
> The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an
easier
> build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> enough of already.
>
> I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> doing nothing:-)
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" carl@ wrote:
> >
> > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's
impressive.
> Lots
> > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the
companionway
> his
> > "utility rooms".
> >
> >
> >
> > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> >
> >
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of scr243
> > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nells,
> >
> > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> which
> > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> the flat
> > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> and if
> > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> you are
> > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> possibilities?
> >
> > Stan
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
,
> "Nels
> > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from
a
> > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> should
> > > consider at some point:-)
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > >
> > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal
draft
> > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for
$690
> > > AUS.
> > >
> > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > >
> > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > cheaper to build.
> > >
> > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> in
> > > his newsletter:
> > >
> > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > >
> > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> pilothouse
> > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> the
> > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for
two,
> but
> > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> pilothouse to
> > > enjoy the view.
> > >
> > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> bulkhead
> > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > >
> > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> gravity,
> > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> affects
> > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind
side
> to
> > > help stabilize the hull.
> > >
> > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the
wind
> as
> > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would
also
> > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> main
> > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile
addition.
> > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> norm
> > > along a coastline.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.

Some things that attract me to the Viola.

Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
getting into the living area from down the mast.

The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
added.

Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
launch ramp.)

The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
enough of already.

I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
doing nothing:-)

Nels




--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
Lots
> of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
his
> "utility rooms".
>
>
>
> His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of scr243
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
>
>
>
>
>
> Nells,
>
> For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
which
> is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
the flat
> bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
and if
> you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
you are
> going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
possibilities?
>
> Stan
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Nels
> A" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
should
> > consider at some point:-)
> >
> > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> >
> > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > AUS.
> >
> > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> >
> > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > cheaper to build.
> >
> > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
in
> > his newsletter:
> >
> > http://jimsboats.com/
> >
> > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
pilothouse
> > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
the
> > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
but
> > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
pilothouse to
> > enjoy the view.
> >
> > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
bulkhead
> > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> >
> > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
gravity,
> > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
affects
> > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
to
> > help stabilize the hull.
> >
> > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
as
> > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
main
> > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
norm
> > along a coastline.
> >
> > Nels
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.  Lots
of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway his
"utility rooms".



His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.



Carl



From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of scr243
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26





Nells,

For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice, which
is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size the flat
bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull, and if
you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If you are
going to put in the labor, why not have something with more possibilities?

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , "Nels
A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nells,

For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice, which is
quite a bit more boat in some important ways.  Regardless of size the flat
bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull, and if you
get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday.  If you are going
to put in the labor, why not have something with more possibilities?

Stan



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some  Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their  area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26  regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>

Carl:
I've thought about modifying the Frolic2 slot top so the deck forward of the
mast is solid, with a snall hinged hatch at the forward end for ventilation and
exit. The mast would be centered, and a solid hatch that hinges to the side, or
is removable, would be used aft of the mast. In practice, I rarely use the slot
top to go forward. On expeditions, there's too much stuff in the cabin, and at
the beach, I tend to hop over the side and wade to shore in the ankle deep
water. Might be different if I preferred the fabric slot cover that Michalak
recommends, but I like the solid cover. It's also easy to add a mizzen to the
stern of the boat.

Gary


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?
>
>
>
> I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and a boat
> designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.
>
>
>
> I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that a fair
> assessment?
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>

Good points Carl,

I think I would prefer the gaff yawl rig as shown now that you mention
it, which would allow the mast to be forward of the cabin in the
self-draining bow well. And the mizzen in the stern well to keep all
spars out of the water tight living area.

And yes the flat bottom would pound more and not be as wave friendly as
Frolic2. More sleeping area inside which was a factor for the poster. He
is planning to sail in a more protected area along a strait inside a
large protective island.

For me it would be an inland lake with long shallow arms to explore.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?
>
>
>
> I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and
a boat
> designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.
>
>
>
> I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that
a fair
> assessment?
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Nels A
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:44 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Viola 22 and 26
>
>
>
>
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse
to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?



I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and a boat
designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.



I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that a fair
assessment?



Carl



From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nels A
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:44 PM
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Michalak] Viola 22 and 26





I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
consider at some point:-)

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm

Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
AUS.

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html

I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
cheaper to build.

I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
his newsletter:

http://jimsboats.com/

I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
enjoy the view.

The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
and off to the side of the access opening to it.

Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
help stabilize the hull.

A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
along a coastline.

Nels





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently put in an application to purchase some  Viola plans from a
fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
consider at some point:-)

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm

Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
shoreline cruiser for their  area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
NIS26  regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
AUS.

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html

I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
cheaper to build.

I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
his newsletter:

http://jimsboats.com/

I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
enjoy the view.

The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
and off to the side of the access opening to it.

Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
help stabilize the hull.

A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
along a coastline.

Nels

Nels,

I agree, the sail prices are bargains.  The Lateen is only $140.00.  I have seen
an ad for "Rudder like Butter" in Small Boat Advisor, the builder created it for
a sailing canoe.  He has even written an article that appeared in the same
magazine.  I think he uses an endless line around the cockpit for steering.  I
would try a tiller and hiking stick first.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Stan,
>
> Thanks for that link! I had it one time and lost it when my old computer
> crashed.
>
> That 35 sq. ft. sail for $100 is a steal. That is the same area as the
> Optomist Dinghy calls for, with a mast height of 7' 6" which might work
> with an  8' closet pole maybe?
>
> I think it would be excellent on a canoe I am considering converting for
> sailing. The idea for a leeboard is to have a thwart, the same width as
> the leeboard and the leeboard securely bolted to one end so that it
> remains  vertical and parallel to the water flow.  The thwart is held in
> place by two loops of line secured through a hole drilled through on the
> forward edge at each gunwale location and through a hole in each
> gunwale. That way the thwart tilts upwards aft if the leeboard strikes
> something. When in water deep enough to not worry about striking
> something the thwart can be straddled  to sit on instead of having to
> perch on the gunwale to shift ones weight outboard.
>
> My next challenge is to have a rudder system so one can steer with one
> hand from the thwart location while handling the sheet as well. One
> option is to sit on the bottom instead and have foot pedals for steering
> but that seems too complicated and does not allow weight shifting. I
> guess a long extension on the tiller might work? Or maybe a steering
> line running along under each gunwale from a yoke on the tiller?
>
> This sail might also work well with a Trilars using the larger sail,
> which is a bargain as well.
>
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > I found this source for small traditional sails at very good prices.
> I know it's great to sew your own, but an affordable quality built sail
> sure brings out the performance you might never see otherwise.
> > Up at the top of the page, click on Pram sails and check them out.
> >
> > http://www.neilprydesails.com/store/sun.htm
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to clarify that although I have made inquiries here
> regarding optional rigs for some of Jim's designs, I in no way am
> suggesting the original rigs are the not the best choice.
> > >
> > > The reason for looking at a standing lug or sprit option is that
> where I am located (on a river) I may be motoring or sculling/rowing
> more often than sailing. So having a rig with short spars that can stow
> neatly on deck, and when trailering, and easy to set-up is something to
> consider.
> > >
> > > I am also interested in the Tween lateen rig, where the long yard
> folds in half, and have purchased the plans. It really looks to be a
> great option as well.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm
> > >
> > > As you will notice - this is a pretty big sail for such a small boat
> and has a fairly high aspect ratio to boot, something the other two
> options don't offer. Lateens are about the nicest looking sail form one
> can imagine in my opinion, when the yard is long like that. It folds
> down in half by having a simple strap hinge on the upper surface and two
> quick release side locking straps.
> > >
> > > I think the largest factor with all these rigs is that the spars
> have to be very stiff and strong for their size, and yet be light for
> ease of handling. So good quality, probably quarter-sawn spar material
> may be worth locating, as well as having the proper taper.
> > >
> > > For example a sprit should have a lot of strength at the mid-point.
> A rectangular cross-section at the mid-point, tapering at each end is
> suggested by Bolger. The short mast should also be quite stout as there
> is no standing rigging.
> > >
> > > Both a sprit and standing lug marry well with a small jib and even a
> mizzen so the first reefs are just dowse the smaller two sails without
> having to touch the main. A standing lug can be roller furled as Gary
> alluded to with Matt Layden's Sand Flea. A Sprit rig can be brailed to
> dowse sail area which has been successful with Ray Aldridge and his
> Slider Cat.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/designs/slider/index.htm
> > >
> > > Using poly tarp as a sail material and using simple darts installed
> to give the sail shape makes it really reasonable to try these
> alternatives.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
>

Yep - it is so inconsistent it is hard to figure what the program they
use is meant to accomplish.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I yield. I again tried searching on the Bolger group. I worked
sometimes but not others.
>

I yield. I again tried searching on the Bolger group. I worked sometimes but not
others.

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "aub77" <aub77@...> wrote:
>
> I have always found the Search function in Yahoo!Groups to not work as
expected.  There is no option that a moderator or owner can set to change it
that I can find.  I think some searches are influenced by where you are in the
messages.  Just seems screwy on all the boards to me.  There may be long term
hope:
>
> Thank you for using Yahoo! Groups.
>
> We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve the search issue within
Groups. In the meantime, if your Group has been affected by this issue, please
fill out the questions on the next page so we can migrate over your Group to the
new Message Search solution in May, 2009.
>
> Thank you for your patience!
>
> (I filled out the survey).
>
> Wayne
>

The Texas 200 is June 22-26 in 2010 according to Chuck. June 21 will be
the shuttle day. June 26 will also be the  Magnolia Beach Messabout.

Dave Gray


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, jhargrovewright2 <jhargrovewright2@...>
wrote:
>
> Dave,
> That is getting close to the Texas200 also. I don't know the date.
> johninbastrop
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:40:07 -0000 "David" polysail@... writes:
>
> I'd like to list the dates for Jim's Midwest Messabout at Rend Lake
for
> 2010 in a calendar I am developing for PDRacers. I think the Midwest
> Messabout is always the week before Father's Day which would put it on
> the weekend of June 12 and 13. Could someone confirm these dates for
me.
> Thanks.
>
> Dave Gray
> PolySail International
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Doctorate Degrees Online
> Boost your career with an online doctoral degree. Enroll today!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=2MfPRvDRTfWv5wb5duknAwAAJ1\
A6Dj4GjgZ5WZ8EehT9sL1JAAQAAAAFAAAAAGJN8j4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyOQAAAA\
A=
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Chuck,
I don't know if camera is playing a trick, but your boat looks like the hatches
might be a bit wider than the plan?  Did you just decide to square them up? 
Looks like it would make them much more usable.

Thanks, Bill P

Dave,
That is getting close to the Texas200 also.  I don't know the date.
johninbastrop

On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:40:07 -0000 "David" <polysail@...> writes:

I'd like to list the dates for Jim's Midwest Messabout at Rend Lake for
2010 in a calendar I am developing for PDRacers. I think the Midwest
Messabout is always the week before Father's Day which would put it on
the weekend of June 12 and 13. Could someone confirm these dates for me.
Thanks.

Dave Gray
PolySail International



____________________________________________________________
Doctorate Degrees Online
Boost your career with an online doctoral degree. Enroll today!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=2MfPRvDRTfWv5wb5duknAwAAJ1A6Dj4Gjg\
Z5WZ8EehT9sL1JAAQAAAAFAAAAAGJN8j4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyOQAAAAA=

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'd like to list the dates for Jim's Midwest Messabout at Rend Lake for 2010 in
a calendar I am developing for PDRacers. I think the Midwest Messabout is always
the week before Father's Day which would put it on the weekend of June 12 and
13. Could someone confirm these dates for me.
Thanks.

Dave Gray
PolySail International

I also like the polytarp sprit rig, but for working upwind on smaller
boats, I like to put a full batten into the foot of a sprit instead of
just making it loose-footed. The batten can help shrink the camber so
that the sprit points better upwind. I like to use a 2" x 3/16" x 8'
mahogany lathing strip available from Menards. I split the strip
lengthwise, epoxy it together and sew it into the foot, or you can make
a pocket at the clew out of some polytarp edge material so that the
batten can be removed.

After recently building a very efficient sail out of polytarp for a
PDRacer that almost looks like a sailboard sail, I think there is lots
of room for experimentation in the use of battens in tarp sails. In that
particular sail, I used bamboo skewers in leech pockets made from edge
material to hold out the roach. The bamboo skewers cost $1.00/hundred at
WalMart. There's a good picture of the sail near the end of the article
at: http://polysail.com/zduck.htm <http://polysail.com/zduck.htm>

Dave Gray

PolySail International


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Recently reading in Bolger's book "100 Small Boat Rigs" he had some
nice things to say about the Standing Lug rig. Especially when going
off-shore since the boom is more fixed to the mast and the mast can be
shorter and sturdier compared to the balance lug.
>
> I'm also thinking the mast could be moved forward somewhat to stay out
of the water-tight cabin. Several Michalak designs have the mast inside
the cabin which to me invites water running down the mast into the
cabin.
>
> Adding a mizzen aft also allows moving the mast forward a bit more
plus having the boom shorter, as well as the mast. Plus the other
benefits of the mizzen.
>
> Also the shorter boom lessens the chance of the sheet getting caught
up on the raised motor on the stern in a gibe.
>
> Anybody have thoughts on the standing lug?
>
> I also am wondering about the idea of using a sprit rig on some
smaller Michalak designs as it allows the mast being more forward while
still having a short mast and short spars. This rig has traditionally
been used with a small jib as well on an unstayed mast since the mast
can be very stout requiring no standing rigging. The downward force of
the sprit helps to keep the luff on the jib from sagging.
>
> Nels
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have always found the Search function in Yahoo!Groups to not work as expected.
There is no option that a moderator or owner can set to change it that I can
find.  I think some searches are influenced by where you are in the messages. 
Just seems screwy on all the boards to me.  There may be long term hope:

Thank you for using Yahoo! Groups.

We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve the search issue within
Groups. In the meantime, if your Group has been affected by this issue, please
fill out the questions on the next page so we can migrate over your Group to the
new Message Search solution in May, 2009.

Thank you for your patience!

(I filled out the survey).

Wayne

Nice site, and the prices look pretty good. Loved this though from the site:

  PARREL BEADS

Parrel beads are solid nylon balls with holes drilled through them, through
which a wire cable passes. The cable has stainless-steel thimbles at either end
that are then shackled to the tack, making a closed loop of beads around the
genoa. The parrel beads roll over the furled genoa, allowing the tack of the
cruising spinnaker to be raised and lowered with ease.

I had no idea...

Cheers, Brian

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Stan,
>
> Thanks for that link! I had it one time and lost it when my old computer
> crashed.
>
> That 35 sq. ft. sail for $100 is a steal. That is the same area as the
> Optomist Dinghy calls for, with a mast height of 7' 6" which might work
> with an  8' closet pole maybe?
>
> I think it would be excellent on a canoe I am considering converting for
> sailing. The idea for a leeboard is to have a thwart, the same width as
> the leeboard and the leeboard securely bolted to one end so that it
> remains  vertical and parallel to the water flow.  The thwart is held in
> place by two loops of line secured through a hole drilled through on the
> forward edge at each gunwale location and through a hole in each
> gunwale. That way the thwart tilts upwards aft if the leeboard strikes
> something. When in water deep enough to not worry about striking
> something the thwart can be straddled  to sit on instead of having to
> perch on the gunwale to shift ones weight outboard.
>
> My next challenge is to have a rudder system so one can steer with one
> hand from the thwart location while handling the sheet as well. One
> option is to sit on the bottom instead and have foot pedals for steering
> but that seems too complicated and does not allow weight shifting. I
> guess a long extension on the tiller might work? Or maybe a steering
> line running along under each gunwale from a yoke on the tiller?
>
> This sail might also work well with a Trilars using the larger sail,
> which is a bargain as well.
>
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > I found this source for small traditional sails at very good prices.
> I know it's great to sew your own, but an affordable quality built sail
> sure brings out the performance you might never see otherwise.
> > Up at the top of the page, click on Pram sails and check them out.
> >
> > http://www.neilprydesails.com/store/sun.htm
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to clarify that although I have made inquiries here
> regarding optional rigs for some of Jim's designs, I in no way am
> suggesting the original rigs are the not the best choice.
> > >
> > > The reason for looking at a standing lug or sprit option is that
> where I am located (on a river) I may be motoring or sculling/rowing
> more often than sailing. So having a rig with short spars that can stow
> neatly on deck, and when trailering, and easy to set-up is something to
> consider.
> > >
> > > I am also interested in the Tween lateen rig, where the long yard
> folds in half, and have purchased the plans. It really looks to be a
> great option as well.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm
> > >
> > > As you will notice - this is a pretty big sail for such a small boat
> and has a fairly high aspect ratio to boot, something the other two
> options don't offer. Lateens are about the nicest looking sail form one
> can imagine in my opinion, when the yard is long like that. It folds
> down in half by having a simple strap hinge on the upper surface and two
> quick release side locking straps.
> > >
> > > I think the largest factor with all these rigs is that the spars
> have to be very stiff and strong for their size, and yet be light for
> ease of handling. So good quality, probably quarter-sawn spar material
> may be worth locating, as well as having the proper taper.
> > >
> > > For example a sprit should have a lot of strength at the mid-point.
> A rectangular cross-section at the mid-point, tapering at each end is
> suggested by Bolger. The short mast should also be quite stout as there
> is no standing rigging.
> > >
> > > Both a sprit and standing lug marry well with a small jib and even a
> mizzen so the first reefs are just dowse the smaller two sails without
> having to touch the main. A standing lug can be roller furled as Gary
> alluded to with Matt Layden's Sand Flea. A Sprit rig can be brailed to
> dowse sail area which has been successful with Ray Aldridge and his
> Slider Cat.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/designs/slider/index.htm
> > >
> > > Using poly tarp as a sail material and using simple darts installed
> to give the sail shape makes it really reasonable to try these
> alternatives.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
>

Nels,

I hope I'm not beating the horse too much about this. I'm a poor proof reader
and noticed that I didn't exactly quote the phrase from your post. So, I went to
the Bolger group and did a few more searches.

My post there includes "double-loop method a long time ago". If I search for [
method time ago], I get a hit. If I search for [ "method time ago" ], no hit.
So, that search function recognizes searches within quotes as a single
string--those without quotes are recognized as separate strings connected by
"OR". Standard, I think.

I think searching on Michalak won't work that may. But, maybe I'm missing
something. Enough said by me.

Tom