On my Toto I used a milk crate against the bulkhead then a regular
boat cushion against it for padding as a backrest, I also used a
second boat cushion to sit on, rasied me up and made it
comfortable.  The milk crate was also good to keep a small cooler,
tackle box etc.

Tom


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, eric S <u23b_2311@...> wrote:
>
>
> I took my TOTO out for a solo paddle Sunday for the
> first time. I built a ninety degree offset double
> paddle as called for in Jim's plans.
>
> I kept hitting the sides of the boat with the handle
> of the paddles so I think the paddles need to be a bit
> longer. I may add a foot to the paddle and also reduce
> to offset to 30 degrees or so.
>
> As I paddled I had a hard time keeping a straight
> course. I pretty much zig zagged my way up and back
> down the river,,,
>
> Would a keel make the Toto track straighter?
>
> Thanks
>
> eric
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>

Hi Eric,

> I installed the Skeg as called for in the Plans.

I've built and paddled two Totos, and in my view the skeg shown on
the plans is inadequate.  If I were doing it again, I'd make the skeg
shorter lengthwise and as deep as possbile without going any deeper
than the belly of the boat.  It would also help to fair the skeg
leading and trailing edges.  I made a skeg like this (short, deep,
and faired) for Robote, and it tracks beautifully.  That result has
me tempted to cut the skegs off my Totos and replace them.

> I do need to come up with some type of seat and back
> support.

Bolger, among others, strongly recommends against using a backrest
for double paddling.  He claims it will cause lower back pain.  I
like the idea of a backrest close behind, but not supporting my back
until I lean back to take a break.  A duffle and a boat cushion or
two work well.  I also found that just leaning back against the aft
bulkhead while wearing a PFD provides a comfortable resting/drifting
position.

Jon Kolb
www.kolbsadventures.com/boatbuilding_index.htm

I think your problem is mostly technique. I should know, since I seem to have
the same problem. First, I can't see much reason for an offset paddle unless
you're paddling into a strong wind, and the offset seems harder on the wrists.
Here's the main trick. You're trying to make it work with the paddle as
horizontal as possible, and that's not wha Toto is designed for. She's meant to
be paddled with the paddle quite close to vertical. Almost like a single paddle
that you can flip to switch sides. This brings the thrust in closer, which yaws
the boat much less. I hate how this gets me wet, so I actually find a single
paddle more civilized in Toto. With the trust brought in closer, the skeg is
enough as designed. To paddle "flatter", you need a bigger skeg, a higher seat,
and probably a narrower boat!   --Rob


---------------------------------
New Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Call regular phones from your PC and save big.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, I'd go by the water you'll be on. If you want to be out in rough water,
build piccup. If not, piccup squared would be good enough and easier to build. I
suspect Twixt would be close to as much effort and money to build as Piccup, so
I think I'd go with Piccup if those were the two choices. --Rob


---------------------------------
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They're selling two different types of outboard.

The small/light/simple/cheap models (such as
http://www.smalloutboardengines.com/20hpoutboard.html) will be very
loud, even louder than the little Tohatsu/Gamefisher models that Sears
used to sell.  While I don't have any experience with this particular
brand, the engine is basically a 2-stroke weed eater engine.  Minimal
cowling, air cooling, air exhaust (the loudest part).  The air exhaust
will also occasionally drip hot oil, and depending on how the engine
is turned, it will drip into the boat.  Idling at 2500 RPM, it will be
loud even at idle.  It will probably be hard to run the motor in such
a way as to push the boat at low speeds, as it uses a centrifugal
("automatic") clutch.  (This is also said to be a problem with the
Honda 2 hp 4-stroke.)

The "mechanically speaking" page says "there are no gears to lock up
on you", implying that they probably use weed eater flex-shaft
technology.  Those flexible shafts often don't hold up well under load
in weed eaters.  Their photo of the 2-hp model hides the lower unit so
you can't be 100% sure, but the intermediate shaft housing appears
weed eater-like.  The sold-out 2.5 hp model appears to have gears.
Parts availability may also be an issue on these models.

In short, I wouldn't recommend these weed eater-based outboards for
any sort of relaxed cruising.  They might be ok as a once-in-a-while
motor for getting to the fishing hole (but not for trolling), or for
use where light weight is absolutely paramount.  Personally, I'd buy
an old Evinrude/Johnson 3 (see Max's column on Duckworks) if my budget
was that tight.  They're nearly as simple as the 2.5, under 40 lbs,
smooth, quiet, durable, reliable, and parts are available.

Island Hopper's other models (such as
http://www.smalloutboardengines.com/25hp4strokeoutboard.html) are
chinese clones of Yamaha outboards, sold under the "Sail" brand.
Other distributors of these motors claim parts interchangeability
with the corresponding Yamaha models (see the "warrantee" faq at
http://sailoutboards.com/order.html).  Typical of current chinese
knockoffs, I'd expect them to be less refined and more troublesome
than the originals, but the price might make that up to you.  Still
not as smooth as an old Evinrude/Johnson 3, but they pollute less and
are probably easier on gas (though no 3 hp motor will burn much).

Just my $.02 worth.

Bob

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "cosermann" <arielmiller@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know why, but the idea of really small/light/simple/cheap
> outboards is appealing to me.  Does anyone have any experience with
> these?
>
> http://www.smalloutboardengines.com/mechanicallyspeaking.html
>
> Any other suggestions?
>
> Regards,
>

Hello Stacey

I built the AF4G here

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/af4/grande/index.htm

I run mine with a 1983 Johnson 25HP. I have remote
controls setup on the forward cockpit bulkhead
starboard side..

I am trying to get all the pics together and send them
to Jim with a write up.

I don't have a GPS so I can't give you any
performance.

The biggest draw back is the size. This is a pretty
big boat to launch and espically to load back on the
trailer. My trailer has full size tires and wheels so
the boat sits pretty high when trailering.

I love the space inside. I wish I spent more time on
the water.

I do have some ply wood checking on the cuddy decks
and on the cabin deck.

I will hit them with the random orbit sander and fill
them with epoxy, prime and paint.

I am currently working on a removable soft top setup
to give the boat an "ELCO 26" look.

I also need a boat hook and a swim ladder and .....

Please ask away with any questions.

eric



> Does anyone have any first hand information
> concerning the performance
> of the A4Grande?
>
> Thank you


__________________________________________________
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Thanks to all who responded

I will try a longer paddle with no offset and some
type of seat setup. I am not sure I really want to sit
any higher in the boat. I was sitting on a throwable
cushion when I was paddling... I may have been doing
some type of "J" stroke so as the paddle left the
water at the end of the stroke is was pushing to the
side instead of the back..


Joe thanks for the link below... I love your boats...

eric

--- Joe Tribulato <scsbmsjoe@...> wrote:

> Eric:
>
> Look at my Duckworks article on Le Petit Bateau. The
> cut down resin
> chair, foot brace and 8ft paddle with no offset have
> worked well for
> me. Link:
>
http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/05/designs/tribulato/pirogue/index.cfm
> All my flat botttom boats need a skeg to function.
>
> Joe T
>


__________________________________________________
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http://mail.yahoo.com

As an experienced double-paddler in both whitewater boats (which turn
even when you don't want to) and sea kayaks (which track straight for
50 yards without any stroking), I'll just say... see what Rob said.  I
think he nailed it.   And as for the drip-on-your-lap problem,
seakayakers sometimes put little rubber cuffs on the paddles about a
foot inboard of the blade to prevent that.

Well, I'll add one more thing to Rob's advice -  those squiggles in the
wake will eventually straighten out even without a skeg.  It helps if
you maintain a steady rhythm while paddling.  Steady gentle stroking
rather than giant lunges and occasional big corrections.  Tiny
corrections become part of your stroke, kind of like riding a bicycle.
But a skeg will make things simpler on flatwater.

Chris

On Thursday, June 1, 2006, at 09:37 AM, Rob Rohde-Szudy wrote:

> I think your problem is mostly technique. I should know, since I seem
> to have the same problem. First, I can't see much reason for an offset
> paddle unless you're paddling into a strong wind, and the offset seems
> harder on the wrists. Here's the main trick. You're trying to make it
> work with the paddle as horizontal as possible, and that's not wha
> Toto is designed for. She's meant to be paddled with the paddle quite
> close to vertical. Almost like a single paddle that you can flip to
> switch sides. This brings the thrust in closer, which yaws the boat
> much less. I hate how this gets me wet, so I actually find a single
> paddle more civilized in Toto. With the trust brought in closer, the
> skeg is enough as designed. To paddle "flatter", you need a bigger
> skeg, a higher seat, and probably a narrower boat!   --Rob
>
>

Eric --

Last year we took Cormorant up to Indian Lake (probably passing within
15 miles of your house on the way up Rt. 30), but this year we dropped
that trip in favor of an August cruise in Maine (Penobscot Bay), plus
Cape Cod in July. There's a chance we'll do a late-season weekend on
Sacandaga.

I'd love to see the AF4G some day, somehow.

In any case -- happy boating!

All best,
Garth




> Garth,,  Maybe we can catch up to you this summer if
> you are out sailing..
>
> eric
>
> Erie Canal Lock 9
>

I've just ordered the plans for the Twister and I'm curious if one has
already been built.  Anyone heard of one?  I've searched this forum
unsuccessfully and didn't find any pix in the other Michalak Yahoo
groups.  I didn't really find anything via google either.

The one question I've got about the design is can it be built without
the mast being mounted initially.  I'm gonna have to break the build
costs down over a couple of seasons and would like to use the Twister
with a motor until I can save enough for the mast and sail and all the
little ropes and pulleys and other things that a sail boat needs.

-=- Steve

Steve--

Jim's boats require very little sailing hardware. To raise the sail, you need a
hole in the mast, perhaps re-enforced with a bolt.  I can't tell how Jim has
drawn the sheet arrangement from his study drawings, but it probably involves a
block which can be purchased for a couple of bucks from Duckworks.  The masts
and spars don't cost much; the sail is an expense, but if you build it from
polytarp, it's not that much; and there is some line involved.  Adding a sai;
(and leeboard and rudder tiller) won't cost that much.

Having said all that, Twister is supposed to be a pretty good power boat.  If
your budget doesn't allow for a sail at this time (I've been there), operate
Twister as a motor boat.  You will  be on the water and that is the object of
the exercise.  Have fun and keep us advised.

John T
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: greyfire69
   To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:11 AM
   Subject: [Michalak] Has anyone built the Twister?


   I've just ordered the plans for the Twister and I'm curious if one has
   already been built.  Anyone heard of one?  I've searched this forum
   unsuccessfully and didn't find any pix in the other Michalak Yahoo
   groups.  I didn't really find anything via google either.

   The one question I've got about the design is can it be built without
   the mast being mounted initially.  I'm gonna have to break the build
   costs down over a couple of seasons and would like to use the Twister
   with a motor until I can save enough for the mast and sail and all the
   little ropes and pulleys and other things that a sail boat needs.

   -=- Steve






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

John,

Thanks for the response.  That's what I was hoping to hear.  I
figured it was doable but wasn't sure.  If I can get the build going
it will be as a powerboat at first - I just don't want to make any
mistakes/choices in the construction that would prevent me from using
a sail later.  That's good news about the hardware.  Sailing has me a
little intimidated as far as both expense and technique.  I'll try
and put little notes up when I start the build and pictures of her
too.

-=- Steve

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John  and Kathy Trussell"
<jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
> Steve--
>
> Jim's boats require very little sailing hardware. To raise the
sail, you need a hole in the mast, perhaps re-enforced with a bolt.
I can't tell how Jim has drawn the sheet arrangement from his study
drawings, but it probably involves a block which can be purchased for
a couple of bucks from Duckworks.  The masts and spars don't cost
much; the sail is an expense, but if you build it from polytarp, it's
not that much; and there is some line involved.  Adding a sai; (and
leeboard and rudder tiller) won't cost that much.
>
> Having said all that, Twister is supposed to be a pretty good power
boat.  If your budget doesn't allow for a sail at this time (I've
been there), operate Twister as a motor boat.  You will  be on the
water and that is the object of the exercise.  Have fun and keep us
advised.
>
> John T
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: greyfire69
>   To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, June 02, 2006 2:11 AM
>   Subject: [Michalak] Has anyone built the Twister?
>
>
>   I've just ordered the plans for the Twister and I'm curious if
one has
>   already been built.  Anyone heard of one?  I've searched this
forum
>   unsuccessfully and didn't find any pix in the other Michalak
Yahoo
>   groups.  I didn't really find anything via google either.
>
>   The one question I've got about the design is can it be built
without
>   the mast being mounted initially.  I'm gonna have to break the
build
>   costs down over a couple of seasons and would like to use the
Twister
>   with a motor until I can save enough for the mast and sail and
all the
>   little ropes and pulleys and other things that a sail boat needs.
>
>   -=- Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   SPONSORED LINKS Steel building design  Building design  Metal
building design
>         Building design software  Home building design plan  Home
building design
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     a..  Visit your group "Michalak" on the web.
>
>     b..  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>      Michalak-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c..  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
>
>   No virus found in this incoming message.
>   Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>   Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.1/354 - Release Date:
6/1/2006
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've got twister plans but have not built.  The mast is raised by hand
and sits in the step and bolts into the partner via a plate -- so it
would be easy to go without until you got around to building the mast.

I think the specs on the site say it should work just fine as a power-
only boat.  Good luck!

Carl

I've got twister plans but have not built.  The mast is raised by hand
and sits in the step and bolts into the partner via a plate -- so it
would be easy to go without until you got around to building the mast.

I think the specs on the site say it should work just fine as a power-
only boat.  Good luck!

Carl

Have thought about Twister myself and had a chance to check in with
some others thinking about it. I'm inclined to think that Twister will
be a better powerboat than a sailboat. As Jim himself said "In fact
one idea behind the boat is to use it under power alone, leave the
sail rig at home and go camping on rivers where oars and sails are not
useful."

Bryant

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "John  and Kathy Trussell"
<jtrussell2@...> wrote:
>
<snip>

> Having said all that, Twister is supposed to be a pretty good power
boat.  If your budget doesn't allow for a sail at this time (I've been
there), operate Twister as a motor boat.  You will  be on the water
and that is the object of the exercise.  Have fun and keep us advised.

Well after many false starts and way too much epoxy not to mention too
much cutting three times instead of measuring twice my first boat has
tasted  water floated upright, been rowed with some transom dragging
but still made good time and tracked well.  It lost the front 2 feet
and now has a blunt bow but it fits on top of my accent real easy and
is easily secured and I could get the 12 foot pieces out of my basement
wasn't sure about fourteen after I made the pieces full seize.  The
gunnels are 1x4 with 1x4 top pieces so no matter how hard I row nothing
moves and with the top pieces it sits on top of the car with no roof
rack.(the roof was already scratched up from an emergancy light so
whats a few more scratches)  Due to an increase in weight it also has
two wheels and can be pulled put on the roof and taken off by one
person.  I'll have to see next time if I can launch it by myself.  Its
still in primer but next dry spell here in Mass I'll finish up the
painting.  My wife says she thinks I should call it the hope since she
hopes it won't sink with my son and I on it.  No water aboard stable
with one adult and a 4 year old aboard even with him moving from side
to side much easier row than a 14 foot cartop fisherman with a
catherdral hull.  Photos once they get developed.
John
Fitchburg Ma.

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Rob Rohde-Szudy <robrohdeszudy@...>
wrote:
>
> Well, I'd go by the water you'll be on. If you want to be out in
rough water, build piccup. If not, piccup squared would be good enough
and easier to build. I suspect Twixt would be close to as much effort
and money to build as Piccup, so I think I'd go with Piccup if those
were the two choices. --Rob

I've already got epoxy and tape from my last project (a canoe), so I
don't have to worry about that expense. I don't plan to be on rough
water, but I guess it could get rough. As far as effort required, it's
not a big deal either.

I think the question comes down to this - does the half-flat bottom of
the the Twixt offer any benefits? I think the Piccup looks better, but
I'm just fascinated with the twisted wood Twixt hull. Are there any
situations where the flat bottom is faster/smoother/more stable?

The Squared is tempting because I've never built a nail and glue boat,
but I just don't like the look of the front.

Marc

Hello everyone,

I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to build
the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.  I
own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest 15' -
and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.

But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown, he's
too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just like
to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And maybe,
just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.  Not
likely, but you never know.

Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord) drill,
and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked with
fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
stuff before I can start cutting plywood.

But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine sailcloth, no
less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
actually build the Mayfly.

I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up enough
money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a couple
of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments, yada,
yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a long,
long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.

I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
so.

Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Chris Rowan
Brownsville, TX

Hi Chris --

Table saws are useful for many things -- but you don't need one to
build Mayfly. Save the money! The saber saw and drill alone would do it.

No need for clamps really, either. To attach the chine logs to the
sides, for instance, you can use 1" galvanized decking screws through
from the inside, after smearing the two surfaces very well with glue.
Ditto for the gunwales. For clamping up the laminations of the mast
you can wrap it all tight in nylon fishing line, which contracts back
on itself. For the leeboard and rudder laminations you can drive in
screws and remove them after your glue dries, then fill the holes with
putty or thickened epoxy. Nothing to it.

You could even, if pressed for time and/or cash, go without epoxy,
though I wouldn't really recommend that. Glassing the chines and
bottom really strengthens the boat and extends its life. Ditto for
smearing some thickened epoxy along your inside bottom-side joint.

Mayfly is amazing. Little boat, big capacity. It's stable, sails
fairly well, has plenty of sprawl room, a dream to beach with its
kick-up rudder and pivoting leeboard, etc.

Rather than handsewing the sail, check out Duckworks. Their prices
aren't too much higher than sailcloth alone, and you'll be on the
water without making your fingers bleed.

Holler to the group any time you have any questions. We all love this
stuff.

All best,
Garth


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Rowan" <crowan2477@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to build
> the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.  I
> own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest 15' -
> and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
> my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.
>
> But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
> take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown, he's
> too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
> that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just like
> to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And maybe,
> just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.  Not
> likely, but you never know.
>
> Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
> circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord) drill,
> and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
> clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked with
> fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
> stuff before I can start cutting plywood.
>
> But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine sailcloth, no
> less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
> actually build the Mayfly.
>
> I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up enough
> money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a couple
> of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
> Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments, yada,
> yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
> saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
> stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
> ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
> built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a long,
> long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
> least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.
>
> I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
> related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
> so.
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Rowan
> Brownsville, TX
>

Sounds like you have what you need to build the boat.  Mayfly is nail
and glue construction, epoxy and glass isn't absolutely necessary,
although as Jim says it will help armor the chines.  You could use
pl-premium for gluing the chines, with screws to back it up.


Bill


On 6/4/06, Chris Rowan <crowan2477@...> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to build
> the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.  I
> own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest 15' -
> and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
> my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.
>
> But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
> take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown, he's
> too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
> that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just like
> to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And maybe,
> just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.  Not
> likely, but you never know.
>
> Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
> circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord) drill,
> and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
> clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked with
> fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
> stuff before I can start cutting plywood.
>
> But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine sailcloth, no
> less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
> actually build the Mayfly.
>
> I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up enough
> money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a couple
> of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
> Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments, yada,
> yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
> saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
> stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
> ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
> built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a long,
> long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
> least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.
>
> I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
> related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
> so.
>
> Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Rowan
> Brownsville, TX
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Turnbull" <BillTurnbull@...>
wrote:
>
> Sounds like you have what you need to build the boat.  Mayfly is
nail
> and glue construction, epoxy and glass isn't absolutely necessary,
> although as Jim says it will help armor the chines.  You could use
> pl-premium for gluing the chines, with screws to back it up.
>
>
> Bill
>
>
> On 6/4/06, Chris Rowan <crowan2477@...> wrote:
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to
build
> > the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.
I
> > own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest
15' -
> > and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
> > my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.
> >
> > But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
> > take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown,
he's
> > too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
> > that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just
like
> > to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And
maybe,
> > just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.
Not
> > likely, but you never know.
> >
> > Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
> > circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord)
drill,
> > and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
> > clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked
with
> > fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
> > stuff before I can start cutting plywood.
> >
> > But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine
sailcloth, no
> > less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
> > actually build the Mayfly.
> >
> > I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up
enough
> > money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a
couple
> > of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
> > Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments,
yada,
> > yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
> > saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
> > stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
> > ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
> > built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a
long,
> > long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
> > least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.
> >
> > I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
> > related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
> > so.
> >
> > Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris Rowan
> > Brownsville, TX
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >Chris'you've got all you need already!For 1st time project forget
about epoxy and fiberglass.If you use the boat when it is built
you'll build another.It's only a box to float on the water,they
built boats long before epoxy, glass tape,and silicon bronze
fasteners;no majic involved!Save the modern materials for 2nd or 3rd
boat.people now think a boat should last forever but traditionaly
even ships like my old bones would be consigned to the deep!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Garth,

I just might buy a pre-made sail.  I'm definitely not looking forward
to all that sewing.

How many reef points should I select?  And what are they for?

-Chris

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "GarthAB" <garth@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Chris --
>
> Table saws are useful for many things -- but you don't need one to
> build Mayfly. Save the money! The saber saw and drill alone would
do it.
>
> No need for clamps really, either. To attach the chine logs to the
> sides, for instance, you can use 1" galvanized decking screws
through
> from the inside, after smearing the two surfaces very well with
glue.
> Ditto for the gunwales. For clamping up the laminations of the mast
> you can wrap it all tight in nylon fishing line, which contracts
back
> on itself. For the leeboard and rudder laminations you can drive in
> screws and remove them after your glue dries, then fill the holes
with
> putty or thickened epoxy. Nothing to it.
>
> You could even, if pressed for time and/or cash, go without epoxy,
> though I wouldn't really recommend that. Glassing the chines and
> bottom really strengthens the boat and extends its life. Ditto for
> smearing some thickened epoxy along your inside bottom-side joint.
>
> Mayfly is amazing. Little boat, big capacity. It's stable, sails
> fairly well, has plenty of sprawl room, a dream to beach with its
> kick-up rudder and pivoting leeboard, etc.
>
> Rather than handsewing the sail, check out Duckworks. Their prices
> aren't too much higher than sailcloth alone, and you'll be on the
> water without making your fingers bleed.
>
> Holler to the group any time you have any questions. We all love
this
> stuff.
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Rowan" <crowan2477@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to
build
> > the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.
I
> > own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest
15' -
> > and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
> > my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.
> >
> > But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
> > take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown,
he's
> > too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
> > that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just
like
> > to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And
maybe,
> > just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.
Not
> > likely, but you never know.
> >
> > Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
> > circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord)
drill,
> > and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
> > clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked
with
> > fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
> > stuff before I can start cutting plywood.
> >
> > But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine sailcloth,
no
> > less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
> > actually build the Mayfly.
> >
> > I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up
enough
> > money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a
couple
> > of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
> > Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments,
yada,
> > yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
> > saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
> > stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
> > ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
> > built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a
long,
> > long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
> > least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.
> >
> > I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
> > related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
> > so.
> >
> > Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Chris Rowan
> > Brownsville, TX
> >
>

Here's another 2 cent suggestion.  Consider a used Tanaka motor. The
TOB300 was marketed through Tanaka America till 2004. Sears sold it as
the GameFisher 3.0.  Parts are still available and the Tanaka America
technical staff are very patient.  Used motors are usually available on
Ebay. I got one of the oldest TOB300's available and it still runs like
a champ.  They are fairly lightweight at 28 lbs.

As a plus, this model features a two-stage centrifugal clutch so it can
be run at trolling speeds and not overheat.

Good luck with your motor search.

Cecil

> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "cosermann" <arielmiller@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know why, but the idea of really small/light/simple/cheap
> > outboards is appealing to me.  Does anyone have any experience with
> > these?
> >
> > http://www.smalloutboardengines.com/mechanicallyspeaking.html
> >
> > Any other suggestions?
> >
> > Regards,
> >
>

Hi Chris --

Reef points are for tying the sail down shorter in heavy winds. (You
slack the halyard to let the whole sail down a couple of feet, then
tie in your reef points to the boom with short lengths of rope that
are there for the purpose, then re-tighten the halyard, and you're off.)

On a small boat like Mayfly, one set of reef points is helpful. Two is
plenty. Three might look a bit absurd. At a certain point (full
gale?), you just drop sail and row yourself home. Another advantage of
Mayfly.

Also, check EBay or yard sales for used sewing machines. Sometimes you
can get one for $30 and sew your own sail much more easily. (Get that
V-69 thread.) A compromise between hand-sewing and buying finished
sails. . . .  And you'll have that sewing machine for your second and
third sails, all your future boats, plus around-the-home sewing
repairs. I've found plenty of uses for mine.

All best,
Garth




--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Rowan" <crowan2477@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Garth,
>
> I just might buy a pre-made sail.  I'm definitely not looking forward
> to all that sewing.
>
> How many reef points should I select?  And what are they for?
>
> -Chris

Chris,

I have a table saw, but I do not use it for boatbuilding.  I do my layout and
cutting on a couple of 2x4's set on a couple of saw horses.  I rip strips for
chines and genwales using a rip fence on my hand held circular saw.  If you need
an excuse to buy more tools, boatbuilding is as good as any, but IMHO, a table
saw is not particularly useful in boatbuilding.

It can be argued that you can never have enough clamps, but you can make do with
several alternatives.  A spanish windless (a loop of rope with a stick to twist
it) can be used for many applications.  Another approach is to use plywood
scraps to make clamps.  Cut a slot in the plywood a little wider than the
material to be clamped and drive a small wedge to apply pressure.

Epoxy is wonderful stuff and if the budget allows, it is the first choice. 
However, there are other, less expensive, perfectly adequate glues (powdered
Weldwood comes to mind) and for centuries, skiffs were built with only
mechanical fastenings.  Bronze annular nails are available from
www.jamestowndistributors.com among others. The old rule was nail where you can
and use screws where you have to.  Stainless steel screws are expensive.

It wasn't that long ago that I had children in college with all the expenses
that come at that time of life.  Now I have a different problem.  It used to be
that older folks coped with illneses, marryings, birthings, split ups, buryings,
and all that sort of thing.  Suddenly, all the older folks have gone and I've
inherited those responsibilities.  All of these things take time away from
sailing....

I guess we should try to enjoy whatever stage of life we're in at the time.

John T


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Chris Rowan
   To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 6:38 PM
   Subject: [Michalak] Building my first boat - Mayfly


   Hello everyone,

   I am reading "Boatbuilding for Beginners" and have decided to build
   the Mayfly as soon as I can acquire the materials and hardware.  I
   own two kayaks - a Pelican Pursuit 11' and an Aquafusion Quest 15' -
   and have been "paddlesailing" for several years now.  Kayaking is
   my "thing" and I hope to continue doing my thing for many years.

   But I really miss my little dog, Max.  When he was a pup, I could
   take him along on my paddling trips.  Now that he's fully grown, he's
   too big to take in either of my kayaks.  As silly as it sounds,
   that's the main reason why I want to build the Mayfly.  I'd just like
   to be able to take Max along with me from time to time.  And maybe,
   just maybe, I could convince my son or daughter to come along.  Not
   likely, but you never know.

   Boat building is uncharted territory for me.  I have a decent
   circular saw, an old (functional) sabre saw, a regular (cord) drill,
   and a cordless drill.  But that's about it.  I don't have any
   clamps.  No handheld sanders.  No table saw.  I've never worked with
   fiberglass or epoxy.  I'm going to have to acquire quite a lot of
   stuff before I can start cutting plywood.

   But I have managed to make my own sails out of genuine sailcloth, no
   less.  And the sails really work.  So I am hopeful that I can
   actually build the Mayfly.

   I've decided that the first thing I'm going to do is save up enough
   money to buy the epoxy kit for the Mayfly.  That'll take me a couple
   of months (my son's in college, daughter takes karate class and
   Driver's Ed . . . then there's the mortgage, two car payments, yada,
   yada, yada).  After I get the epoxy kit, I'll save up for a table
   saw.  Then I'll start acquiring clamps (not sure what size) and
   stainless screws.  After I acquire a dozen or so clamps, I'll be
   ready to actually buy plywood and 1 x 10's.  After the Mayfly is
   built, I'll save up to buy the sailcloth.  It's going to take a long,
   long time to stitch those panels by hand.  Several weekends, at
   least.  But that's ok.  I'm not in a hurry.

   I figure that if I save my "allowance" and focus on only Mayfly-
   related purchases, I should have everything I need in 6 months or
   so.

   Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

   Regards,

   Chris Rowan
   Brownsville, TX





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Also, check EBay or yard sales for used sewing machines. Sometimes
you
> can get one for $30 and sew your own sail much more easily. (Get that
> V-69 thread.) A compromise between hand-sewing and buying finished
> sails. . . .  And you'll have that sewing machine for your second and
> third sails, all your future boats, plus around-the-home sewing
> repairs. I've found plenty of uses for mine.
>
> All best,
> Garth
>
>
>



I made a white polytarp sail for my AF3.

Bought a "Deluxe Dressmaker" sewing machine at a
flea market.  Big, heavy metal thing.  How the
manufacturer expected the average woman to tote that
chunk around is beyond me.  It's as heavy as some of
my outboard motors.

Taped the sail together and then started sewing.  Used
a lot of silicon lubricant spray on the needle to
keep things going.  Sewed some parts of that darn
sail two and three times as I was always thinking it
needed more reinforcement.  Put about 1400 feet of
thread into that sail when it only needed maybe
half that.  I even sewed the existing "glued" seams
in the poly tarp in case they were weak.

Two lines of reef points

Then sewed a slot cover.

Try to get an older, mostly metal machine with minimal
plastic.  Might add that the cost of shipping such a heavy
machine might preclude buying one anywhere but
locally.

Try to get the owner to show you how to run the thing.

And try to get one with an owner's manual.  I would not
know the first thing about running my "Dressmaker"
without that owner's manual.  You need to know how
to rewind thread onto the bobbin (the machine pulls
thread from two locations:  the spool on top everyone
can see, and a little bobbin hidden underneath.)

You also need to know what parts to oil for lubrication.

Then make a sail and also a boat cover and maybe
even a boom tent.


Max

If anyone has build or is building  the AF3 or Normsboat in the
central valley of CA or the Bay Area, I would like to get a look at
it. I live in Manteca CA

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "ttcsweeney" <ttcsweeney@...> wrote:
>
> Well after many false starts and way too much epoxy not to mention too
> much cutting three times instead of measuring twice my first boat has
> tasted  water floated upright, been rowed with some transom dragging
> but still made good time and tracked well.  It lost the front 2 feet
> and now has a blunt bow but it fits on top of my accent real easy and
> is easily secured and I could get the 12 foot pieces out of my basement
> wasn't sure about fourteen after I made the pieces full seize.  The
> gunnels are 1x4 with 1x4 top pieces so no matter how hard I row nothing
> moves and with the top pieces it sits on top of the car with no roof
> rack.(the roof was already scratched up from an emergancy light so
> whats a few more scratches)  Due to an increase in weight it also has
> two wheels and can be pulled put on the roof and taken off by one
Looks that > person.  I'll have to see next time if I can launch it by
myself.  Its
> still in primer but next dry spell here in Mass I'll finish up the
> painting.  My wife says she thinks I should call it the hope since she
> hopes it won't sink with my son and I on it.  No water aboard stable
> with one adult and a 4 year old aboard even with him moving from side
> to side much easier row than a 14 foot cartop fisherman with a
> catherdral hull.  Photos once they get developed.
> John
> Fitchburg Ma.
>

My congratulations, I'm a big fan of Robote and I'm very curious about
  that blunt bow how it looks: looking forward for your pictures.

Looking forward for Jon's pictures on Robote launch day either.

:)

Wojtek

We had two Michalak designs at last weekend's messabout: Skat and IMB.
  You can find the event photos at
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/paxton_consulting/album?.dir=/d129re2&.src=ph

Best wishes to all who are attending the Midwest Messabout at Rend
Lake next weekend.

Bill

OK folks,
  Time for another hairy idea. How about a shaft driven electric AF4?
The electric motor could be mounted in the space under the "water box"
The batteries could be mounted in the cuddy near the main bulkhead in
order to distribute weight. The Af4 being flat bottomed has pretty low
displacement and could move along nicely at 5 knots or so. The
driveshaft could exit the transom on a slight angle and extend back a
foot or so.....and pass through a watertight bearing. I think we all
agree that the af4 is no speedster and MIGHT be a good contender for
electric power. Anyone want to comment on this one? Isn't boating
fun?>......


M Russon