Hi,
I might weigh in here as I think I am the one who sparked this discussion
elsewhere.

I'll say at the outset that I'm a total novice and everything I say here is
based on what I have read, not experienced (yet).
Whilst looking for a design to follow the 11ft dinghy I am currently building I
was impressed by all that I read about the NIS. I looked at the plans, the bill
of materials, some build blogs then took a reality check and looked at AF2/AF3
etc., When I found that Viola appears very similar to the NIS but more
realistically within my capabilities (skill, time, budget) I wondered how it
would compare to a NIS in performance and handling.

Primarily we have some nice shoal, sheltered waters where I would like to sail,
and a semi-sheltered bay area,  but occasionally I'd like to go up the coast
(Queensland / Pacific Ocean / Coral Sea), but I would only do so in favourable
weather.

The sharpie hull looks much simpler to build and if I were to go to one of his
designs that JM defines as "seaworthy" I think it would have to be Caroline.
Caprice is probably too large, and Frolic rather narrow, but I'd want a
conventional cabin not the bird watcher. I'd have to buy plans for Frolic and
Caprice and build a Frolice maybe?

Anyway, would love to hear from anyone who has the Viola plans, what they think
of it. Or if there is anyone from the NISBoats Yahoo group is lurking here I'd
be glad to hear their evaluation too.

Cheers
Simon
-----
Wannbe Sailor


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@...> wrote:
>
> Nells,
>
> For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice, which is
quite a bit more boat in some important ways.  Regardless of size the flat
bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull, and if you
get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday.  If you are going
to put in the labor, why not have something with more possibilities?
>
> Stan
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > I recently put in an application to purchase some  Viola plans from a
> > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
> > consider at some point:-)
> >
> > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> >
> > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > shoreline cruiser for their  area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > NIS26  regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > AUS.
> >
> > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> >
> > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > cheaper to build.
> >
> > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> > his newsletter:
> >
> > http://jimsboats.com/
> >
> > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
> > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
> > enjoy the view.
> >
> > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
> > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> >
> > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
> > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> > help stabilize the hull.
> >
> > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
> > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> > along a coastline.
> >
> > Nels
> >
>

Tom,

Two other options that might allow you to locate the mast further
forward and still have the CE of the sail over the leeboard.

Change the sail plan from a balance lug to a standing lug. I have seen
that done by installing an oar lock on the foreward end of the boom or
making your own boom jaws out of plywood, or just snubbing the forward
end of the boom closer to the mast?  Then moving the yard parrel a bit
further forward on the yard.

Drawbacks is there is more effort required on the sheet to prevent sail
twist and may require a two-part sheet. Supposedly the standing lug will
do a bit better going upwind as there is no "bad tack" and less chafe,
with the sail impinging less against the mast on the one tack.

Another option is the sprit rig which is great as the spars are short
per given sail area and easy to stow. It is surprisingly efficient as
the peak luff is free of boom interference but requires a lot of snotter
tension and a stiff sprit to keep it taut.

Main disadvantage is that it is not easy to reef and once it gets over
100 sq. ft. in area that can be a challenge.

Other options are a gaff rig which is much more complicated as a casual
sail option. As well as a junk rig which can be set up almost like a
standing lug, with a lot of sail area further aft than a balance lug.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your
thoughts if I'm not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat.
The boat is  20' X 6', with a leeboard already installed--my
modification of Phil Bolger's Becky Thatcher. It will be configured as
an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the same 113 sq ft balanced-lug
Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem is where to install
the mast.
>
> With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a
bulkhead in the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of
the boat--not good.
>
> I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable
bulkhead-partner-deck structure that seems, in my imagination, to be
pretty strong, but still questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be
removable, because I want to keep that open area for the boat's main use
as a canal boat.
>
> The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2'
closer to the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the
leeboard.  Then, I will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40
sq ft or so, whatever the calculations call for.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Tom Andrews
>

Owen,

Wow nice progress! Did you notice one of your photos appeared in Jim's
most recent newsletters?

So you got a really nice hull there and the plans call for cutting some
holes in it now. I can relate to your concern:-)

Just be aware that if you plug the holes or make them too small the
free-flooding or self draining benefit gets compromised.

Not sure how it works with the Twister design but I have heard that on
Bolger's Micro, some water in the wells helps to dampen hobby-horsing
with  a short hull in big waves. Also rainwater drains right off when
the boat is sitting on a trailer.

There are scuppers and drain hardware that open to allow water to exit
but close to prevent water from backing up. Some options here:

<http://www.discountmarinesupplies.com/HARDWARE-Scuppers_Drains.html>

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "owen" <obuerkle@...> wrote:
>
> I fiberglassed the bottom of my Twister today, I put a couple more
pictures in the twister folder.  Twisting the bottom wasn't as big a
deal as I thought it might be.  I used a ratchet stap to pull it into
shape while I wire tied it.
>
> I am wondering about the pro's and con's of free flooding motor
well's.  Is the affect on bouyancy of the rear of the boat affected
negatively or is it generally not noticable?  I am thinking about making
drain holes that I can plug.  Anyone have any experiences?
>
> Owen
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" scr243@ wrote:
> >
> > I'm glad to see someone building a Twister, I was always curious how
well the design would sail.  What modification are you making to the
cabin?
> >
> > Stan
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "owen" <obuerkle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey folks, I haven't posted here before but I started building a
Twister a couple months ago so I thought I would let anyone who was
interested know.  A while ago someone on this group suggested a
modification to make it so you can lay down in the cabin.  I am doing
that with my boat so thanks for the idea.  I put a couple of pictures in
the photos section under "twister"
> > >
> > > Owen
> > >
> >
>

Tom,

I would tend to go along with what Alan writes. When doing the calcs try
to get as much of the CE of the main aft even if you add a mizzen. This
is what Jim recommends even though he is adding more mizzens to his
designs. Read what he has to say about Caroline.

"The builder wanted a yawl rig (she wants to coastal cruise the Maine
coast) but I added the mizzen as I do now, keeping the basic balance
such that you could sail it without the mizzen."

Part of the reasoning might be that a mizzen is normally cut almost
completely flat, so as to work as an air rudder when at anchor or
holding the hull into the wind, so it does not provide a lot of drive.
Also it may be blanketed by the main when going to weather.

But it's drawbacks have other benefits. Holding the boat steady when at
anchor, holding it into the wind when setting the main or even when not
using the main and just wanting to hold a steady station when stopping
for lunch or leaving the tiller. Or even when motoring.

Enlarging the mizzen too much would be my last choice as in my view it
makes it much less convenient to carry as a steadying sail.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your
thoughts if I'm not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat.
The boat is  20' X 6', with a leeboard already installed--my
modification of Phil Bolger's Becky Thatcher. It will be configured as
an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the same 113 sq ft balanced-lug
Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem is where to install
the mast.
>
> With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a
bulkhead in the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of
the boat--not good.
>
> I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable
bulkhead-partner-deck structure that seems, in my imagination, to be
pretty strong, but still questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be
removable, because I want to keep that open area for the boat's main use
as a canal boat.
>
> The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2'
closer to the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the
leeboard.  Then, I will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40
sq ft or so, whatever the calculations call for.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Tom Andrews
>

Hi John,

Don't know why but your post got delayed when identified as spam. But I
released if from the holding pen:-)

Here is a link to what Jim Michalak has to say about tabernacles.

<http://marina.fortunecity.com/breakwater/274/2001/0115/index.htm#MAST%2\
0TABERNACLES>

The first example shown is what I would do with a design like Viola.
Where the tabernacle is secured to the forward cabin bulkhead and the
bottom of the hull, in the free flooding bow well. No need to make it
watertight, but the open bow well must have enough space forward so the
base of the mast can swing upwards when the mast is lowered.

Later on at the bottom of the article there is a small photo of Chuck's
Caprice build. The tabernacle is secured inside the slot top against one
side of it and the other tabernacle upright is just open, braced by a
heavy cross-piece right across the slot opening. Bolger also does a
similar thing on his Whalewatcher design except several cross spalls
almost resembling a ladder spaced upwards behind the tabernacle. It is
the force aft from the sail on the base of the mast that drives the boat
forward.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, jhargrovewright2 <jhargrovewright2@...>
wrote:
>
> Stan,
> There must be a mistake in terminology.  A tabernacle does not have a
> space around it.  It penetrates the deck but should be glued, and
> attached well to the deck immediately at and below the deck level.
The
> deck and tabernacle at the deck should be "one" structurally.
> johninbastrop
>
> On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:40:35 -0000 "scr243" scr243@... writes:
>
> I don't know how Chuck seals his tabernacle, Contact Chuck and find
out.
> The tabernacle is fixed into place through the cabin top so there
should
> be a way to seal it with no leakage.
>
> Stan
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > Hi Stan,
> >
> > How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another
> fellow that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems
> Schooner. Not only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of
a
> problem when at anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you
> have to un-seal it to lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it
again.
> Probably some sort of sleeve made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd
on?
> >
> > Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up.
Viola
> is meant to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline
length -
> as the ends immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading
to
> some surprising speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails
more
> upright and would be more comfortable for sure.
> >
> > Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas
> Viola is 3/8 doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with
empty
> water containers inside and without the iron ballast.
> >
> > I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
> >
> > Nels
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Nels,
> > >
> > >
> > > Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal
> rain and spray.
> > >
> > > Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
> > >
> > > Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design,
> just reinforce the area. weight is weight as long as it is in the
right
> area.
> > >
> > > Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's
a
> whole lot better boat.
> > >
> > > Question- Have you sailed on the coast much? Sailing on the coast
is
> quieter than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the
> motorheads to spread out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded
> lake, there are very few PWC, and the winds are usually better without
> the hills.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> > > >
> > > > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> > > >
> > > > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of
water
> > > > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> > > >
> > > > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could
easily
> be
> > > > added.
> > > >
> > > > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage
> space
> > > > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These
iron
> bars
> > > > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > > > stability. The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is
an
> > > > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards
from
> a
> > > > launch ramp.)
> > > >
> > > > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an
> easier
> > > > build and lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I
have
> > > > enough of already.
> > > >
> > > > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting
here
> > > > doing nothing:-)
> > > >
> > > > Nels
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's
> impressive.
> > > > Lots
> > > > > of space. He calls the spaces between the cabin and the
> companionway
> > > > his
> > > > > "utility rooms".
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too. Caprice is a nice
boat.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Carl
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > Of scr243
> > > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nells,
> > > > >
> > > > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft.
> Caprice,
> > > > which
> > > > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of
> size
> > > > the flat
> > > > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine
> hull,
> > > > and if
> > > > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important
someday.
> If
> > > > you are
> > > > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > > > possibilities?
> > > > >
> > > > > Stan
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > > "Nels
> > > > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola
plans
> from a
> > > > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection -
something
> I
> > > > should
> > > > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a
shoal
> draft
> > > > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster
mentioned
> an
> > > > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here
for
> $690
> > > > > > AUS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot
of
> > > > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement
and
> more
> > > > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps
more
> > > > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more
simple
> and
> > > > > > cheaper to build.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim
calls
> a
> > > > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such
a
> rig
> > > > in
> > > > > > his newsletter:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > > > pilothouse
> > > > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft
> into
> > > > the
> > > > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room
for
> two,
> > > > but
> > > > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on
benches
> and
> > > > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > > > pilothouse to
> > > > > > enjoy the view.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft
pilothouse
> > > > bulkhead
> > > > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center
of
> > > > gravity,
> > > > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen
heeling
> > > > affects
> > > > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the
upwind
> side
> > > > to
> > > > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off
the
> wind
> > > > as
> > > > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and
would
> also
> > > > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good
as
> the
> > > > main
> > > > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile
> addition.
> > > > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are
> the
> > > > norm
> > > > > > along a coastline.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nels
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Weight Loss Program
> Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=kdpgF1Vmindt_QhURDyUrAAAJ1\
A6Dj4GjgZ5WZ8EehT9sL1JAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAA\
A=
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Can't really say how well it works until I try it and test it out.

And I stand corrected - it is a primer/sealer with "Properties of both a
primer and adhesive." according to the manufacturer. The term "adhesive"
is what caught the eye of the fellow who used it on his hull.

http://www.ximbonder.com/products_detail.asp?id=34

I have yet to find a supplier in my area.

Easy for me to check out MDO though as most of the signs along the
highway where I live are made from MDO. Never saw any checking on any of
them although I saw one sign that was mostly a very dark green in
background and faces south. When examined very closely, there was a bit
of print-through of the grain behind the overlay. I expect another coat
of paint would make that invisible for the most part.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "daschultz2000" <daschultz8275@...>
wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > ....but it also reminds me I am looking at a water-based
> > paint, another fellow used to successfully apply fibergass and fill
the
> > weave using an added filler, instead of using epoxy. Will try it
first
> > on a small hull I am refurbishing that only had epoxy on the taped
> > joints.
> >
>
> I think you will be successful with this approach.  IMO the fabric
lets one pile on a thicker barrier against water with the mechanical
support of the paint while liquid.  Fiberglass will also provide some
mechanical scuff protection.  This thicker barrier should better protect
the wood, and (I hope) resist checking by reducing swelling and
shrinking of the wood.
>
> The levels of mechanical protection will certainly be lower than with
epoxy, but that's not the comparison to make.  The paint impregnated
cloth barrier should be compared to paint alone.
>
> IMO the big advantage to this paint scheme is lower risk of toxicity
to the boat builder.
>
> This all raises a question.  Have any experienced checking with boats
built of MDO?
>

Stan,
There must be a mistake in terminology.  A tabernacle does not have a
space around it.  It penetrates the deck but should be glued, and
attached well to the deck immediately at and below the deck level.  The
deck and tabernacle at the deck should be "one" structurally.
johninbastrop

On Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:40:35 -0000 "scr243" <scr243@...> writes:

I don't know how Chuck seals his tabernacle, Contact Chuck and find out.
The tabernacle is fixed into place through the cabin top so there should
be a way to seal it with no leakage.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stan,
>
> How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another
fellow that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems
Schooner. Not only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a
problem when at anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you
have to un-seal it to lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again.
Probably some sort of sleeve made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?
>
> Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola
is meant to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length -
as the ends immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to
some surprising speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more
upright and would be more comfortable for sure.
>
> Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas
Viola is 3/8 doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty
water containers inside and without the iron ballast.
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > Nels,
> >
> >
> > Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal
rain and spray.
> >
> > Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
> >
> > Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design,
just reinforce the area. weight is weight as long as it is in the right
area.
> >
> > Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a
whole lot better boat.
> >
> > Question- Have you sailed on the coast much? Sailing on the coast is
quieter than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the
motorheads to spread out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded
lake, there are very few PWC, and the winds are usually better without
the hills.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> > >
> > > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> > >
> > > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> > >
> > > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily
be
> > > added.
> > >
> > > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage
space
> > > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron
bars
> > > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > > stability. The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from
a
> > > launch ramp.)
> > >
> > > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an
easier
> > > build and lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > > enough of already.
> > >
> > > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > > doing nothing:-)
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's
impressive.
> > > Lots
> > > > of space. He calls the spaces between the cabin and the
companionway
> > > his
> > > > "utility rooms".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too. Caprice is a nice boat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com]
On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of scr243
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nells,
> > > >
> > > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft.
Caprice,
> > > which
> > > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of
size
> > > the flat
> > > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine
hull,
> > > and if
> > > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday.
If
> > > you are
> > > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > > possibilities?
> > > >
> > > > Stan
> > > >
> > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > "Nels
> > > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans
from a
> > > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something
I
> > > should
> > > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal
draft
> > > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned
an
> > > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for
$690
> > > > > AUS.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and
more
> > > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple
and
> > > > > cheaper to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls
a
> > > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a
rig
> > > in
> > > > > his newsletter:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > > pilothouse
> > > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft
into
> > > the
> > > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for
two,
> > > but
> > > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches
and
> > > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > > pilothouse to
> > > > > enjoy the view.
> > > > >
> > > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > > bulkhead
> > > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > > gravity,
> > > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > > affects
> > > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind
side
> > > to
> > > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > > >
> > > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the
wind
> > > as
> > > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would
also
> > > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as
the
> > > main
> > > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile
addition.
> > > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are
the
> > > norm
> > > > > along a coastline.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nels
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>



____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=kdpgF1Vmindt_QhURDyUrAAAJ1A6Dj4Gjg\
Z5WZ8EehT9sL1JAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't know how Chuck seals his tabernacle, Contact Chuck and find out.  The
tabernacle is fixed into place through the cabin top so there should be a way to
seal it with no leakage.

Stan



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Stan,
>
> How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another fellow 
that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems Schooner. Not
only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a problem when at
anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you have to un-seal it to
lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again. Probably some sort of sleeve
made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?
>
> Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola is meant
to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length - as the ends
immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to some surprising
speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more upright and would be
more comfortable for sure.
>
> Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas Viola is
3/8 doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty water containers
inside and without the iron ballast.
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > Nels,
> >
> >
> > Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.
> >
> > Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
> >
> > Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just
reinforce the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.
> >
> > Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole
lot better boat.
> >
> > Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is
quieter than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to
spread out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few
PWC, and the winds are usually better without the hills.
> >
> >
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> > >
> > > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> > >
> > > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> > >
> > > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> > > added.
> > >
> > > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> > > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> > > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > > stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> > > launch ramp.)
> > >
> > > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> > > build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > > enough of already.
> > >
> > > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > > doing nothing:-)
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> > > Lots
> > > > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> > > his
> > > > "utility rooms".
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Carl
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf
> > > > Of scr243
> > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nells,
> > > >
> > > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> > > which
> > > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> > > the flat
> > > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> > > and if
> > > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> > > you are
> > > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > > possibilities?
> > > >
> > > > Stan
> > > >
> > > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > > "Nels
> > > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> > > should
> > > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > > >
> > > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > > > AUS.
> > > > >
> > > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > > >
> > > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > > > cheaper to build.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> > > in
> > > > > his newsletter:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > > >
> > > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > > pilothouse
> > > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> > > the
> > > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> > > but
> > > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > > pilothouse to
> > > > > enjoy the view.
> > > > >
> > > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > > bulkhead
> > > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > > gravity,
> > > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > > affects
> > > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> > > to
> > > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > > >
> > > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> > > as
> > > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> > > main
> > > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> > > norm
> > > > > along a coastline.
> > > > >
> > > > > Nels
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Moving the mainmast forward to an existing bulkhead and using a mizzen to
compensate in bringing the C.E. back to the leeboard sounds like a better idea. 
Personally I would get the divided rig to work regardless of time involved
before I gave up the open space.  Do the math first though, you probably need a
smaller main and a larger mizzen.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if
I'm not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X
6', with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.
>
> With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead
in the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not
good.
>
> I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.
>
> The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer
to the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts.
>
> Tom Andrews
>

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> ....but it also reminds me I am looking at a water-based
> paint, another fellow used to successfully apply fibergass and fill the
> weave using an added filler, instead of using epoxy. Will try it first
> on a small hull I am refurbishing that only had epoxy on the taped
> joints.
>

I think you will be successful with this approach.  IMO the fabric lets one pile
on a thicker barrier against water with the mechanical support of the paint
while liquid.  Fiberglass will also provide some mechanical scuff protection. 
This thicker barrier should better protect the wood, and (I hope) resist
checking by reducing swelling and shrinking of the wood.

The levels of mechanical protection will certainly be lower than with epoxy, but
that's not the comparison to make.  The paint impregnated cloth barrier should
be compared to paint alone.

IMO the big advantage to this paint scheme is lower risk of toxicity to the boat
builder.

This all raises a question.  Have any experienced checking with boats built of
MDO?

Hi,
My guess is that the removable idea will be too annoying and you won't want to
bother doing it after a while.
If you already have the sail, could you rig it as a gaff using the mast at the
bulkhead?
Might put it at about the right place...
If you dont already have it, why not make one with proportions that 'fit'.
Probably means longer in the foot and thus lower in the hoist/luff?
But, people who use them reckon mizzens are good!
Cheers,
Alan.

--- On Mon, 23/11/09, Tom <tomandrews36@...> wrote:


From: Tom <tomandrews36@...>
Subject: [Michalak] Question about adding a sail rig:
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, 23 November, 2009, 8:22 AM


I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if I'm
not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X 6',
with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.

With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead in
the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not good. 

I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.

The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer to
the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tom Andrews



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alan,

Great comeback, but it also reminds me I am looking at a water-based
paint, another fellow used to successfully apply fibergass and fill the
weave using an added filler, instead of using epoxy. Will try it first
on a small hull I am refurbishing that only had epoxy on the taped
joints.

I also already have a mizzen sail too, that might work:-)

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, Alan Shapcott <logicaid@...> wrote:
>
> So just a little bit of painting and you're all done!!
> Sorry, couldn't resist.
> Cheers,
> Alan,
> ( who has done almost nothing towards his own project in the last
6months!)
>
> --- On Sun, 22/11/09, Nels A arvent@... wrote:
> *SNIPPED
>
> I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.
>
> Nels
>
> -
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I think this is pretty straight forward, but please tell me your thoughts if I'm
not thinking right about how to add a sail to my boat. The boat is  20' X 6',
with a leeboard already installed--my modification of Phil Bolger's Becky
Thatcher. It will be configured as an open boat, no cabin.  I'll be using the
same 113 sq ft balanced-lug Jim Michalak has drawn for his Dani Jay. The problem
is where to install the mast.

With the sail properly positioned over the leeboard, I would need a bulkhead in
the midst of a now open area in the forward compartment of the boat--not good.

I've worked out a scheme for a bolted-in removable bulkhead-partner-deck
structure that seems, in my imagination, to be pretty strong, but still
questionable and clumsy.  It would have to be removable, because I want to keep
that open area for the boat's main use as a canal boat.

The better alternative seems to be using an existing bulkhead about 2' closer to
the bow, without regard for the sail's relationship to the leeboard.  Then, I
will balance the overall sail plan with a mizzen, 40 sq ft or so, whatever the
calculations call for.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Tom Andrews

So just a little bit of painting and you're all done!!
Sorry, couldn't resist.
Cheers,
Alan,
( who has done almost nothing towards his own project in the last 6months!)

--- On Sun, 22/11/09, Nels A <arvent@...> wrote:
*SNIPPED

I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.

Nels

-




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I fiberglassed the bottom of my Twister today, I put a couple more pictures in
the twister folder.  Twisting the bottom wasn't as big a deal as I thought it
might be.  I used a ratchet stap to pull it into shape while I wire tied it.

I am wondering about the pro's and con's of free flooding motor well's.  Is the
affect on bouyancy of the rear of the boat affected negatively or is it
generally not noticable?  I am thinking about making drain holes that I can
plug.  Anyone have any experiences?

Owen





--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@...> wrote:
>
> I'm glad to see someone building a Twister, I was always curious how well the
design would sail.  What modification are you making to the cabin?
>
> Stan
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "owen" <obuerkle@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey folks, I haven't posted here before but I started building a Twister a
couple months ago so I thought I would let anyone who was interested know.  A
while ago someone on this group suggested a modification to make it so you can
lay down in the cabin.  I am doing that with my boat so thanks for the idea.  I
put a couple of pictures in the photos section under "twister"
> >
> > Owen
> >
>

Hi Stan,

How does Chuck seal around the tabernacle? I have heard from another fellow 
that is not so easy to do with a similar set-up on his Jochems Schooner. Not
only water, but skeeters got in as well. This is more of a problem when at
anchor when over-nighting than when sailing. Then you have to un-seal it to
lower the mast and re-seal when you raise it again. Probably some sort of sleeve
made from nylon pack cloth and Velcro'd on?

Would be interesting to see how the two designs would match up. Viola is meant
to be sail heeled which tends to increase the waterline length - as the ends
immerse more - and lessen the hull wetted surface leading to some surprising
speeds according to Bolger. The Caprice hull sails more upright and would be
more comfortable for sure.

Caprice is lighter to trailer as it is mostly 1/4" plywood whereas Viola is 3/8
doubled on the bottom. Viola could be trailered with empty water containers
inside and without the iron ballast.

I already have the 3/8 MDO and the sail.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@...> wrote:
>
> Nels,
>
>
> Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.
>
> Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice
>
> Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just
reinforce the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.
>
> Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole lot
better boat.
>
> Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is quieter
than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to spread
out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few PWC,
and the winds are usually better without the hills.
>
>
>
> Stan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@> wrote:
> >
> > I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
> >
> > Some things that attract me to the Viola.
> >
> > Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> > getting into the living area from down the mast.
> >
> > The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> > added.
> >
> > Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> > inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> > can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> > stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> > issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> > launch ramp.)
> >
> > The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> > build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> > enough of already.
> >
> > I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> > doing nothing:-)
> >
> > Nels
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> > Lots
> > > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> > his
> > > "utility rooms".
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Carl
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > Of scr243
> > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Nells,
> > >
> > > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> > which
> > > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> > the flat
> > > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> > and if
> > > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> > you are
> > > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> > possibilities?
> > >
> > > Stan
> > >
> > > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Nels
> > > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> > should
> > > > consider at some point:-)
> > > >
> > > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > > >
> > > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > > AUS.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > > >
> > > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > > cheaper to build.
> > > >
> > > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> > in
> > > > his newsletter:
> > > >
> > > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > > >
> > > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> > pilothouse
> > > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> > the
> > > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> > but
> > > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> > pilothouse to
> > > > enjoy the view.
> > > >
> > > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> > bulkhead
> > > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > > >
> > > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> > gravity,
> > > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> > affects
> > > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> > to
> > > > help stabilize the hull.
> > > >
> > > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> > as
> > > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> > main
> > > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> > norm
> > > > along a coastline.
> > > >
> > > > Nels
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

Nels,


Spars can be sealed quite effectively with mast boots from normal rain and
spray.

Chuck has a tabernacle on his Caprice

Steel ballast can be substituted for water ballast on any design, just reinforce
the area.  weight is weight as long as it is in the right area.

Yes, the Caprice would probably use a bit more epoxy but then it's a whole lot
better boat.

Question- Have you sailed on the coast much?  Sailing on the coast is quieter
than most Highland lakes since you have more space for the motorheads to spread
out, the chop is about the same as on a crowded lake, there are very few PWC,
and the winds are usually better without the hills.



Stan








--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
>
> Some things that attract me to the Viola.
>
> Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> getting into the living area from down the mast.
>
> The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> added.
>
> Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
> can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> launch ramp.)
>
> The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
> build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> enough of already.
>
> I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> doing nothing:-)
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@> wrote:
> >
> > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
> Lots
> > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
> his
> > "utility rooms".
> >
> >
> >
> > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> >
> >
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of scr243
> > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nells,
> >
> > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> which
> > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> the flat
> > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> and if
> > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> you are
> > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> possibilities?
> >
> > Stan
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Nels
> > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> should
> > > consider at some point:-)
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > >
> > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > > AUS.
> > >
> > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > >
> > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > cheaper to build.
> > >
> > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> in
> > > his newsletter:
> > >
> > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > >
> > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> pilothouse
> > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> the
> > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
> but
> > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> pilothouse to
> > > enjoy the view.
> > >
> > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> bulkhead
> > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > >
> > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> gravity,
> > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> affects
> > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
> to
> > > help stabilize the hull.
> > >
> > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
> as
> > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> main
> > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> norm
> > > along a coastline.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I posted the following article to files from an Australian magazine
about an NIS23 sailing from OZ to Tasmania across Bass Strait which can
be quite notorious.

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Michalak/files/Sharpie%20Sailing%20on%20B\
ass%20Strait/>

Granted - this is not a Michalak sharpie like Viola - and the sailor had
oodles of experience. So I would NOT  try something like this myself.
But it gives some indication of the capabilities of the sharpie design.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.
>
> Some things that attract me to the Viola.
>
> Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
> getting into the living area from down the mast.
>
> The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
> added.
>
> Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
> inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron
bars
> can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
> stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
> issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
> launch ramp.)
>
> The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an
easier
> build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
> enough of already.
>
> I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
> doing nothing:-)
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" carl@ wrote:
> >
> > I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's
impressive.
> Lots
> > of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the
companionway
> his
> > "utility rooms".
> >
> >
> >
> > His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
> >
> >
> >
> > Carl
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of scr243
> > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> > To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Nells,
> >
> > For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
> which
> > is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
> the flat
> > bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
> and if
> > you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
> you are
> > going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
> possibilities?
> >
> > Stan
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com>
,
> "Nels
> > A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from
a
> > > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
> should
> > > consider at some point:-)
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> > >
> > > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal
draft
> > > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for
$690
> > > AUS.
> > >
> > > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> > >
> > > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > > cheaper to build.
> > >
> > > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
> in
> > > his newsletter:
> > >
> > > http://jimsboats.com/
> > >
> > > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
> pilothouse
> > > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
> the
> > > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for
two,
> but
> > > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
> pilothouse to
> > > enjoy the view.
> > >
> > > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
> bulkhead
> > > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> > >
> > > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
> gravity,
> > > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
> affects
> > > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind
side
> to
> > > help stabilize the hull.
> > >
> > > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the
wind
> as
> > > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would
also
> > > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
> main
> > > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile
addition.
> > > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
> norm
> > > along a coastline.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

I totally agree with both Carl and Stan.

Some things that attract me to the Viola.

Both spars are in self-draining wells meaning less chance of water
getting into the living area from down the mast.

The main mast has a tabernacle (I think) - or at least could easily be
added.

Not that crazy about water ballast tanks which take up storage space
inside compared to iron ballast bolted to the bulkheads. These iron bars
can also be added to or subtracted to adjust balance or increase
stability.  The ballast can be left out for trailering if that is an
issue and brought to boat in a 2nd trip. (I am about 300 yards from a
launch ramp.)

The flat bottom on Viola and nail and glue construction means an easier
build and  lot less epoxy if any - if built using MDO which I have
enough of already.

I sail on protected lakes and already have a gaff sail sitting here
doing nothing:-)

Nels




--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.
Lots
> of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway
his
> "utility rooms".
>
>
>
> His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of scr243
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26
>
>
>
>
>
> Nells,
>
> For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice,
which
> is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size
the flat
> bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull,
and if
> you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If
you are
> going to put in the labor, why not have something with more
possibilities?
>
> Stan
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Nels
> A" arvent@ wrote:
> >
> > I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> > fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
should
> > consider at some point:-)
> >
> > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
> >
> > Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> > shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> > NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> > AUS.
> >
> > http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
> >
> > I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> > similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> > rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> > susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> > cheaper to build.
> >
> > I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> > ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig
in
> > his newsletter:
> >
> > http://jimsboats.com/
> >
> > I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top
pilothouse
> > added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into
the
> > cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
but
> > the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> > better suited for hull balance with windows all around the
pilothouse to
> > enjoy the view.
> >
> > The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
bulkhead
> > and off to the side of the access opening to it.
> >
> > Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
gravity,
> > but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling
affects
> > to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side
to
> > help stabilize the hull.
> >
> > A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind
as
> > well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> > show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
main
> > sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> > This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the
norm
> > along a coastline.
> >
> > Nels
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I've had the chance to go aboard Chuck's Caprice, and it's impressive.  Lots
of space.  He calls the spaces between the cabin and the companionway his
"utility rooms".



His solar charger is a nice touch, too.  Caprice is a nice boat.



Carl



From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of scr243
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:36 PM
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Michalak] Re: Viola 22 and 26





Nells,

For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice, which
is quite a bit more boat in some important ways. Regardless of size the flat
bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull, and if
you get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday. If you are
going to put in the labor, why not have something with more possibilities?

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Michalak%40yahoogroups.com> , "Nels
A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nells,

For nearly the same pile of wood you could build the 25 ft. Caprice, which is
quite a bit more boat in some important ways.  Regardless of size the flat
bottom boat will not handle rough weather like the multichine hull, and if you
get out on the bigger waters that will be important someday.  If you are going
to put in the labor, why not have something with more possibilities?

Stan



--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some  Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their  area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26  regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>

Carl:
I've thought about modifying the Frolic2 slot top so the deck forward of the
mast is solid, with a snall hinged hatch at the forward end for ventilation and
exit. The mast would be centered, and a solid hatch that hinges to the side, or
is removable, would be used aft of the mast. In practice, I rarely use the slot
top to go forward. On expeditions, there's too much stuff in the cabin, and at
the beach, I tend to hop over the side and wade to shore in the ankle deep
water. Might be different if I preferred the fabric slot cover that Michalak
recommends, but I like the solid cover. It's also easy to add a mizzen to the
stern of the boat.

Gary


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?
>
>
>
> I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and a boat
> designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.
>
>
>
> I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that a fair
> assessment?
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>

Good points Carl,

I think I would prefer the gaff yawl rig as shown now that you mention
it, which would allow the mast to be forward of the cabin in the
self-draining bow well. And the mizzen in the stern well to keep all
spars out of the water tight living area.

And yes the flat bottom would pound more and not be as wave friendly as
Frolic2. More sleeping area inside which was a factor for the poster. He
is planning to sail in a more protected area along a strait inside a
large protective island.

For me it would be an inland lake with long shallow arms to explore.

Nels


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Carl Haddick" <carl@...> wrote:
>
> Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?
>
>
>
> I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and
a boat
> designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.
>
>
>
> I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that
a fair
> assessment?
>
>
>
> Carl
>
>
>
> From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Nels A
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:44 PM
> To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Michalak] Viola 22 and 26
>
>
>
>
>
> I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
> fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I
should
> consider at some point:-)
>
> http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm
>
> Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
> shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
> NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
> AUS.
>
> http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html
>
> I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
> similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
> rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
> susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
> cheaper to build.
>
> I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
> ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
> his newsletter:
>
> http://jimsboats.com/
>
> I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
> added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
> cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two,
but
> the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
> better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse
to
> enjoy the view.
>
> The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse
bulkhead
> and off to the side of the access opening to it.
>
> Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of
gravity,
> but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
> to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
> help stabilize the hull.
>
> A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
> well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
> show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the
main
> sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
> This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
> along a coastline.
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Would the Viola be a good candidate for a balanced lug?



I've got Frolic2 plans, but I would prefer a solid cabin overhead and a boat
designed to carry a mizzen has appeal.



I bet the Viola pounds quite a bit in comparison to Frolic2.  Is that a fair
assessment?



Carl



From: Michalak@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Michalak@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Nels A
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 2:44 PM
To: Michalak@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Michalak] Viola 22 and 26





I recently put in an application to purchase some Viola plans from a
fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
consider at some point:-)

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm

Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
shoreline cruiser for their area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
NIS26 regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
AUS.

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html

I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
cheaper to build.

I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
his newsletter:

http://jimsboats.com/

I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
enjoy the view.

The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
and off to the side of the access opening to it.

Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
help stabilize the hull.

A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
along a coastline.

Nels





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recently put in an application to purchase some  Viola plans from a
fellow who is paring down his boat plan collection - something I should
consider at some point:-)

http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/viola22/index.htm

Then there was a discussion on another group regarding a shoal draft
shoreline cruiser for their  area in OZ and the poster mentioned an
NIS26  regularly goes by his location. Plans available here for $690
AUS.

http://www.nisboats.com/mainpages/plans.html

I notice the Norwalk Island Sharpie and the Viola have a lot of
similarity hull-wise. The Viola perhaps less displacement and more
rocker to keep the bow above the water surface and perhaps more
susceptible to pounding going into chop, but a lot more simple and
cheaper to build.

I think the Viola could also be adapted to take what Jim calls a
ketchooner rig - much like the NIS. Photo of a JB2 with such a rig in
his newsletter:

http://jimsboats.com/

I think a Viola could also work nicely with a low slot-top pilothouse
added extending aft from the companionway hatch to about 3ft into the
cockpit. This shortens the cockpit length down to only room for two, but
the pilothouse would allow 4 people inside, sitting on benches and
better suited for hull balance with windows all around the pilothouse to
enjoy the view.

The mizzen mast could be secured up against the aft pilothouse bulkhead
and off to the side of the access opening to it.

Of course crew sitting up on benches would raise the center of gravity,
but the low aspect ratio of the sail plan would lessen heeling affects
to maybe make up for it. Crew could also all sit on the upwind side to
help stabilize the hull.

A ketchooner rig wing on wing would be great rig going off the wind as
well with little steering effort to keep it on course and would also
show some speed on a reach. Going to weather is not so good as the main
sail blankets the mizzen. So a motor would be a worthwhile addition.
This type of sail plan can really go when on-shore winds are the norm
along a coastline.

Nels

Nels,

I agree, the sail prices are bargains.  The Lateen is only $140.00.  I have seen
an ad for "Rudder like Butter" in Small Boat Advisor, the builder created it for
a sailing canoe.  He has even written an article that appeared in the same
magazine.  I think he uses an endless line around the cockpit for steering.  I
would try a tiller and hiking stick first.

Stan

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" <arvent@...> wrote:
>
> Stan,
>
> Thanks for that link! I had it one time and lost it when my old computer
> crashed.
>
> That 35 sq. ft. sail for $100 is a steal. That is the same area as the
> Optomist Dinghy calls for, with a mast height of 7' 6" which might work
> with an  8' closet pole maybe?
>
> I think it would be excellent on a canoe I am considering converting for
> sailing. The idea for a leeboard is to have a thwart, the same width as
> the leeboard and the leeboard securely bolted to one end so that it
> remains  vertical and parallel to the water flow.  The thwart is held in
> place by two loops of line secured through a hole drilled through on the
> forward edge at each gunwale location and through a hole in each
> gunwale. That way the thwart tilts upwards aft if the leeboard strikes
> something. When in water deep enough to not worry about striking
> something the thwart can be straddled  to sit on instead of having to
> perch on the gunwale to shift ones weight outboard.
>
> My next challenge is to have a rudder system so one can steer with one
> hand from the thwart location while handling the sheet as well. One
> option is to sit on the bottom instead and have foot pedals for steering
> but that seems too complicated and does not allow weight shifting. I
> guess a long extension on the tiller might work? Or maybe a steering
> line running along under each gunwale from a yoke on the tiller?
>
> This sail might also work well with a Trilars using the larger sail,
> which is a bargain as well.
>
> Any thoughts on that?
>
> Nels
>
>
>
>
> --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "scr243" <scr243@> wrote:
> >
> > I found this source for small traditional sails at very good prices.
> I know it's great to sew your own, but an affordable quality built sail
> sure brings out the performance you might never see otherwise.
> > Up at the top of the page, click on Pram sails and check them out.
> >
> > http://www.neilprydesails.com/store/sun.htm
> >
> > Stan
> >
> >
> > --- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Nels A" arvent@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I would like to clarify that although I have made inquiries here
> regarding optional rigs for some of Jim's designs, I in no way am
> suggesting the original rigs are the not the best choice.
> > >
> > > The reason for looking at a standing lug or sprit option is that
> where I am located (on a river) I may be motoring or sculling/rowing
> more often than sailing. So having a rig with short spars that can stow
> neatly on deck, and when trailering, and easy to set-up is something to
> consider.
> > >
> > > I am also interested in the Tween lateen rig, where the long yard
> folds in half, and have purchased the plans. It really looks to be a
> great option as well.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/tween/index.htm
> > >
> > > As you will notice - this is a pretty big sail for such a small boat
> and has a fairly high aspect ratio to boot, something the other two
> options don't offer. Lateens are about the nicest looking sail form one
> can imagine in my opinion, when the yard is long like that. It folds
> down in half by having a simple strap hinge on the upper surface and two
> quick release side locking straps.
> > >
> > > I think the largest factor with all these rigs is that the spars
> have to be very stiff and strong for their size, and yet be light for
> ease of handling. So good quality, probably quarter-sawn spar material
> may be worth locating, as well as having the proper taper.
> > >
> > > For example a sprit should have a lot of strength at the mid-point.
> A rectangular cross-section at the mid-point, tapering at each end is
> suggested by Bolger. The short mast should also be quite stout as there
> is no standing rigging.
> > >
> > > Both a sprit and standing lug marry well with a small jib and even a
> mizzen so the first reefs are just dowse the smaller two sails without
> having to touch the main. A standing lug can be roller furled as Gary
> alluded to with Matt Layden's Sand Flea. A Sprit rig can be brailed to
> dowse sail area which has been successful with Ray Aldridge and his
> Slider Cat.
> > >
> > > http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/designs/slider/index.htm
> > >
> > > Using poly tarp as a sail material and using simple darts installed
> to give the sail shape makes it really reasonable to try these
> alternatives.
> > >
> > > Nels
> > >
> >
>

Yep - it is so inconsistent it is hard to figure what the program they
use is meant to accomplish.

Nels

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomandrews36@...> wrote:
>
> I yield. I again tried searching on the Bolger group. I worked
sometimes but not others.
>

I yield. I again tried searching on the Bolger group. I worked sometimes but not
others.

--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, "aub77" <aub77@...> wrote:
>
> I have always found the Search function in Yahoo!Groups to not work as
expected.  There is no option that a moderator or owner can set to change it
that I can find.  I think some searches are influenced by where you are in the
messages.  Just seems screwy on all the boards to me.  There may be long term
hope:
>
> Thank you for using Yahoo! Groups.
>
> We appreciate your patience while we work to resolve the search issue within
Groups. In the meantime, if your Group has been affected by this issue, please
fill out the questions on the next page so we can migrate over your Group to the
new Message Search solution in May, 2009.
>
> Thank you for your patience!
>
> (I filled out the survey).
>
> Wayne
>

The Texas 200 is June 22-26 in 2010 according to Chuck. June 21 will be
the shuttle day. June 26 will also be the  Magnolia Beach Messabout.

Dave Gray


--- In Michalak@yahoogroups.com, jhargrovewright2 <jhargrovewright2@...>
wrote:
>
> Dave,
> That is getting close to the Texas200 also. I don't know the date.
> johninbastrop
>
> On Sun, 15 Nov 2009 13:40:07 -0000 "David" polysail@... writes:
>
> I'd like to list the dates for Jim's Midwest Messabout at Rend Lake
for
> 2010 in a calendar I am developing for PDRacers. I think the Midwest
> Messabout is always the week before Father's Day which would put it on
> the weekend of June 12 and 13. Could someone confirm these dates for
me.
> Thanks.
>
> Dave Gray
> PolySail International
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Doctorate Degrees Online
> Boost your career with an online doctoral degree. Enroll today!
>
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=2MfPRvDRTfWv5wb5duknAwAAJ1\
A6Dj4GjgZ5WZ8EehT9sL1JAAQAAAAFAAAAAGJN8j4AAAMlAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyOQAAAA\
A=
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Chuck,
I don't know if camera is playing a trick, but your boat looks like the hatches
might be a bit wider than the plan?  Did you just decide to square them up? 
Looks like it would make them much more usable.

Thanks, Bill P