I will follow your lead and write above the previous message :8^)

Many practical reasons, and the fact that we, being practical
people, will consider them, work against those whom I call
"secular people" to keep us from proselytizing. For those who
would or do, I recommend a study (not just a read) of George
Lakoff's Moral Politics AND Don't Think of an Elephant AND
pay very close attention to the values issues before venturing out.

Memes are made to be spread, but they must have that inherent
to their frames. Our memes do not inspire any form of emotional
appeal, except when we become irked enough by memes acting
in opposition. Then, we respond rather than take the initiative.

Were we to take Lakoff's advice and find common ground in
secular values (and avoid arguing over fine points that neither
side has scientific standing with), we may find inspiration just
in the realization that we are, after all, folks with real reasons
for considering ourselves "good", and that our reasons (being
grounded in reality rather than "revelation") are the best that
humans can have. I know that I find myself excited just to know
there are actual moral reasons to be a secular person, that it
is NOT just a case of rejecting gods and supernatural realms,
but that a sense of values that the alternative affronts before my
eyes with no concern about how I feel offended, or even acts
aware of.

"HOW can you do that?"
"How can I do what?"
"What you just did! How can you be so brazen?"
"Why, what's wrong with it?"
"You're destroying the world we live in and would like to leave
in a sound way for our children and grandchildren."
"So, what? It doesn't matter. As soon as we get Israel back
home and established, Jesus is coming back. This world will
turn to toast after that, so why should you care so much?"

Let me ask you a practical question about an ongoing
consideration: Of those two people having that conversation,
which is most apt to pull out a gun and kill the other. Barring
that, which is most apt to have an acquaintance who will take
it upon himself to do that after hearing about the other's point
of view? Barring even that, which one is most apt to get his
name/address posted to a list of heretics that may at some
later time get passed around, even years later?

As threatening as that may seem, some of us will take the
risk, and put our memes "out there" in all the various ways that
is possible nowadays. It will be a wasted effort, though, unless
we take the steps to make it effective. Lakoff's work comes out
of the science of linguistics. Understanding that, as I am now
attempting to do, offers the best chance to render an effective
memeplex and share it with others in a far less dangerous way
than I presented in the dialog above.
:8^) The Mad Poet, Lloyd

"Whatever others may claim, Nature's 'laws' are final"
http://www.lloydwhitling.com/NakedTruth



}?~-----Original Message-----
}?~From: Meme-Wars@yahoogroups.com
}?~Behalf Of montyquest@...
}?~Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2005 6:54 AM
}?~To: Meme-Wars@yahoogroups.com
}?~Subject: [Meme-Wars] Should Freethinker Proselytize to increase members?
}?~
}?~In a message dated 4/19/2005 9:06:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
}?~dubluth@... writes:
}?~
}?~It may be worth noting that the brights don't include
}?~converting non-brights in their 3 major aims.
}?~ I think moral (and practical) considerations
}?~preclude the-brights from suggesting this as an aim.
}?~ Making that argument will take work which
}?~I can't put in at this hour.
}?~
}?~Help.
}?~
}?~Bill
}?~
}?~
}?~
}?~*****************
}?~
}?~The answer lies in biological history: Gene propagation works through
}?~displacement of population. Memetic propagation works in the
}?~same fashion. Those
}?~cultural units such as a specific religion, story, or an Idea that
}?~aggressively pursues converts will displace those that are
}?~passive. Those that offer
}?~rewards (i.e. eternal salvation, friendship, large group
}?~structure to assist
}?~an individual's success in society) are more likely to be
}?~accepted than those
}?~that offer little to no reward. Proselytize
}?~ --SNIP--