Hi and thanks so much for your information regarding marbling, I will look for
some direction on marbling techniques.
Dee from Saskatchewan Canada

From: zozo7bra
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 1:19 PM
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Marbling] Re: re-new member


Hi Dee,

Before you do anyhing, contact Lucie La Pierre, he is in Montreal and a Master
Marbler. You can find her information at the website of Les Relieurs du Quebec.
They are at AQRAL website = www.relieursduquebec.ca, you will find some of the
most accomplished marblers and bookbinders and book artists in the world are
right there in Canada, and the supplies cosst a bit less. Should you get a
chance google Robert WU, his work is inspiring and quite beautiful and bold.

Marbling is an extraordinary art and become yourown palette.

Good luck withyour research;
momo

--- In mailto:Marbling%40yahoogroups.com, "naturedee" <patches2008@...> wrote:
>
> Hi I am Dee from Saskatchewan Canada and I have been learning the art of
marbling and I do want to know if anyone knows where I can buy Carragheenan
powder here in Canada please?
> I look forward to meeting everyone and would love to view your albums soon.
> Dee
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello everyone!

   I've discovered the other days on a "bottom shelf" something new, at least to
me, it's all about Maimeri marbling gel... which of I don't know anything. what
kind of powder it is MC,CMC, Carrag.?
or it is suitable for paper, fabric?
   I've attached below a link whit someone who uses this product:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRdYiwkCUAA

Best regards, Chris.

Hello Dee from Saskatchewan and welcome to the group.
Caragheenan and other marbling supplies can be purchased from the
Papertrail in New Dundee Ontario.  Their web site is www.papertrail.ca
Anne in Ontario

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 8:29 PM, naturedee <patches2008@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Hi I am Dee from Saskatchewan Canada and I have been learning the art of
> marbling and I do want to know if anyone knows where I can buy Carragheenan
> powder here in Canada please?
> I look forward to meeting everyone and would love to view your albums soon.
> Dee
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everyone,

I'm curious about marbling and am considering to give it a go. I live in
Australia.

What do you use to preserve the water? I've been told by a teacher in Turkey to
use formaldehyde but I'm thinking that's going to be difficult to get here. The
oxgall that I have already has formaledyhde in it to preserve it. I've been
reading plenty, video's etc but not sure what to use. Ideally would like to use
the water for a while which is the reason for why I'd like to find a suitable
preservative.

Are there any contacts here in Australia - I am in Sydney.

Thank you,
Zuhal

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well just remember that the water solution gets more and more filled with paint
as you go so you would not want to preserve it for to long. Plus you lose some
every time you lift off the paper or fabric plus you have evaporation ... I find
if its done in a cool place like 60F it lasts or 6 or 7 days anyway.
George

Oh ok, so its not something I *must* use - its getting hot here in Sydney so I'm
thinking of doing it early mornings for now. I've been told that its not a good
idea to do it in the heat. I thought it would be a good idea to use it as I just
want to be able to get started and practise often. Thank you George.


________________________________
  From: George Reynolds <georger1998@...>
To: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 5 December 2012 6:18 AM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: New member question


 
Well just remember that the water solution gets more and more filled with paint
as you go so you would not want to preserve it for to long. Plus you lose some
every time you lift off the paper or fabric plus you have evaporation ... I find
if its done in a cool place like 60F it lasts or 6 or 7 days anyway.
George


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You know last summer I did a demo at a gallery in western mass and it was about
95 degrees. As the day went on the paint started doing some strange things to
the point that toward the end the paint started disintegrating for lack of a
better term. It actually could be interesting if you catch it at the right
moment. Good luck!
George

Daniel St. John
Regina St John
Chena River Marblers
70 Justice Drive
Amherst, MA 01002
Phone/fax (413) 253-2835
Www.chenarivermarbl

Zuhal,

Regarding your question on how to extend the working life of the carragheen
marbling bath, I would like to share some our experience with you.  It is
true that dry carragheen powder is becoming increasingly expensive and it
economical to attempt to make it last longer.  We, however, have never
resorted to adding preservatives  to the bath.  Regarding health concerns
having to do with formalin (formaldehyde) you can refer to the EPA studies
on line.  We visited marbling studios in Florence, Italy in August and were
told that the Summer months are when their marblers take their vacations to
avoid dealing with the very problems you are concerned with in Australia.
We teach annually in Virginia where it can be quite hot and humid.  With 10
students and 10 tanks each holding as much as 2.5 gallons of bath and the
fact that each paper made as well as the cleaning swipes with newspaper
requires continual addition of new bath; it is desirable to get a little
more time out of the bath.  Our answer is to make sufficient bath the night
before and make a thicker bath than is called for in most recipes.  We buy 5
and 10 pound bags of ice, wrap them in black plastic bags and leave them in
the large plastic container.  If the ice melts overnight, additional bags of
ice can be added and left through the day.  If you are just working with one
3 gallon tank, it would not be hard to empty the contents of the tank at the
end of the day and place the bath in a refrigerator over  night.  We also
marble large quantities of silk in a 10 foot tank holding 35-40 gallons of
bath.  If it is hot, I place bags of ice  around in the tank  when we are
not marbling as well as in our reserve tanks (usually 2 thirty gallon
containers.  Some people use methyl cell to  get longer use of a bath.  We
think that carrageen gives the most control of patterns and are willing to
pay the price.  We never make a carragheen bath until we are ready to marble
continually without interruption until the bath rots.

For one of the most authoritative answers to your question, it would be
useful to find a copy of "Marbled Paper: "It's History, Techniques, and
Patterns".  by Richard J. Wolfe.  Especially look at Pages 155 and 156.

I would like to offer more of a philosophical comment on this issue of
preserving a  marbling bath because it may be undesirable to worry to much
about extending the life of the bath beyond a day or two.  Carragheen is a
disaccharide,  an organic molecule consisting of two long chains.  It is a
form of sugar produced by the red algae plant as stored food.  It is a
natural food for bacteria which are constantly consuming it and breaking it
down just as is true of milk.  It is natural for the viscosity and the
surface tension to change in the course of  its use.  Artistically, the
marbler can learn to use the various states of the bath to obtain different
types of patterns.  An example of this is when we are able to make finer
combed patterns such as nonpareil derivative ones when the bath is more
viscous and the colors on the surface are less mobile.  When the bath is
looser we might choose to work with veined patterns.  If you read the
descriptions of 19th century marblers such as Wollnough, some very excellent
patterns are achieved when the bath is old and well used.  I have found that
The Tiger Eye pattern works best in a looser bath.

Dan





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dan you must post more often to this group!! And to everyone in the group if you
get a chance to take a class with Regina and Dan go for it.
George

Bonjour Messier Valet,   Merry christmas for you and family  I am still
kicjking at 85, but have not done any marbling in over tnhree years.
I just ran across your name on my e mail,  so I thought to send you a message
Have a good new year.  here in ensenada it is around 50 degrees.  It
is probably a lot colder kin Bdelgium.  hasta la vista,  tomas aquino

To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
From: marbrure2000@...
Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:00:03 +0000
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Paper exchange?


















             Hello,

¨

I'm interested in this paper exchange.

If you don't know my work, you can see it at

http://marbrure.blogspot.com/

Hope to hear from you,



Alain Valet

Belgium




















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please post info and rules, I would like to participate. The last one 3 years
ago was a fantastic experience.

thanks
momo

I wish to everyboby in this group a happy new year 2013, and great Ebru
time¡¡¡

I'm leaving a link to a blog of one of my students and now a paste paper
and marbling artist. She has found, I don't know where, a copy of the
Halfer's abrigded edition by the Hostman Printing Ink Company of London,
the second edition of 1907. You will find there the whole copy¡¡¡¡

http://elblogdebertapapers.blogspot.com.es/    ENJOY¡¡¡¡

My best wishes

Antonio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanx Antonio,
I wish a year full of peace and creative to everybody
yesim goktepe



________________________________
  Kimden: Antonio Velez Celemín <ANVECE@...>
Kime: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Gönderildiği Tarih: 30 Aralık 2012 13:20 Pazar
Konu: [Marbling] Happy Ebru 2013


 
I wish to everyboby in this group a happy new year 2013, and great Ebru
time¡¡¡

I'm leaving a link to a blog of one of my students and now a paste paper
and marbling artist. She has found, I don't know where, a copy of the
Halfer's abrigded edition by the Hostman Printing Ink Company of London,
the second edition of 1907. You will find there the whole copy¡¡¡¡

http://elblogdebertapapers.blogspot.com.es/ ENJOY¡¡¡¡

My best wishes

Antonio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Feliz año nuevo for you too!!

________________________________
  De: Antonio Velez Celemín <ANVECE@...>
Para: "Marbling@yahoogroups.com" <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Enviado: domingo, 30 de diciembre de 2012 8:20
Asunto: [Marbling] Happy Ebru 2013


 
I wish to everyboby in this group a happy new year 2013, and great Ebru
time¡¡¡

I'm leaving a link to a blog of one of my students and now a paste paper
and marbling artist. She has found, I don't know where, a copy of the
Halfer's abrigded edition by the Hostman Printing Ink Company of London,
the second edition of 1907. You will find there the whole copy¡¡¡¡

http://elblogdebertapapers.blogspot.com.es/ ENJOY¡¡¡¡

My best wishes

Antonio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I wanted to thank you for this lovely post - the approach you have is far more
helpful than you realise. It truly is wonderful - I believe the entire process
of marbling is fascinating and I think that a philosophical approach helps
produce a healthy mind and attitude towards this work. I do think that the
Ottoman Turks used it as a source of healing for many people in their time. 

Thanks again,
Zuhal

________________________________
  From: Regina St.John <Regstjohn@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 6 December 2012 12:58 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: New member question


 
Daniel St. John
Regina St John
Chena River Marblers
70 Justice Drive
Amherst, MA 01002
Phone/fax (413) 253-2835
Www.chenarivermarbl

Zuhal,

Regarding your question on how to extend the working life of the carragheen
marbling bath, I would like to share some our experience with you.  It is
true that dry carragheen powder is becoming increasingly expensive and it
economical to attempt to make it last longer.  We, however, have never
resorted to adding preservatives  to the bath.  Regarding health concerns
having to do with formalin (formaldehyde) you can refer to the EPA studies
on line.  We visited marbling studios in Florence, Italy in August and were
told that the Summer months are when their marblers take their vacations to
avoid dealing with the very problems you are concerned with in Australia.
We teach annually in Virginia where it can be quite hot and humid.  With 10
students and 10 tanks each holding as much as 2.5 gallons of bath and the
fact that each paper made as well as the cleaning swipes with newspaper
requires continual addition of new bath; it is desirable to get a little
more time out of the bath.  Our answer is to make sufficient bath the night
before and make a thicker bath than is called for in most recipes.  We buy 5
and 10 pound bags of ice, wrap them in black plastic bags and leave them in
the large plastic container.  If the ice melts overnight, additional bags of
ice can be added and left through the day.  If you are just working with one
3 gallon tank, it would not be hard to empty the contents of the tank at the
end of the day and place the bath in a refrigerator over  night.  We also
marble large quantities of silk in a 10 foot tank holding 35-40 gallons of
bath.  If it is hot, I place bags of ice  around in the tank  when we are
not marbling as well as in our reserve tanks (usually 2 thirty gallon
containers.  Some people use methyl cell to  get longer use of a bath.  We
think that carrageen gives the most control of patterns and are willing to
pay the price.  We never make a carragheen bath until we are ready to marble
continually without interruption until the bath rots.

For one of the most authoritative answers to your question, it would be
useful to find a copy of "Marbled Paper: "It's History, Techniques, and
Patterns".  by Richard J. Wolfe.  Especially look at Pages 155 and 156.

I would like to offer more of a philosophical comment on this issue of
preserving a  marbling bath because it may be undesirable to worry to much
about extending the life of the bath beyond a day or two.  Carragheen is a
disaccharide,  an organic molecule consisting of two long chains.  It is a
form of sugar produced by the red algae plant as stored food.  It is a
natural food for bacteria which are constantly consuming it and breaking it
down just as is true of milk.  It is natural for the viscosity and the
surface tension to change in the course of  its use.  Artistically, the
marbler can learn to use the various states of the bath to obtain different
types of patterns.  An example of this is when we are able to make finer
combed patterns such as nonpareil derivative ones when the bath is more
viscous and the colors on the surface are less mobile.  When the bath is
looser we might choose to work with veined patterns.  If you read the
descriptions of 19th century marblers such as Wollnough, some very excellent
patterns are achieved when the bath is old and well used.  I have found that
The Tiger Eye pattern works best in a looser bath.

Dan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling.  I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either.  I have some comments and
questions.

I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot water. 
I let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping strokes
onto Arches Textwove.  I laid all papers in the same direction between two press
boards while they dried.

The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions.  Two tablespoons per
gallon, mixed in batches by blender.  I left the carrageenan to sit overnight.

The paint - horrible results.  I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk.  It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water.  That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo.  That didn't
help either.  I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the
paint floated on the surface.  I ended up using some acrylics that were in a
small marbling kit with very mixed results.  The other paints never floated or
spread on the surface.

Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper.  I don't know why.  Most of my
color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.

My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries.  I still
have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little more
tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float.  Is
there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints?  Would it be better to
try oils?

ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!

First of all, I find it better to line dry the alumed papers, THEN stack them
and make sure the room is 50% humidity or less. They should keep indefinitely
(mine have kept for years) PROVIDED the paper is suitable for marbling. Most
paper is not, Try some Unbuffered Bond from TALAS talasonline.com. That paper
works. Line dry it, roll out any curls when dry, stack it for a few days at
least.

I have no explanation why your paint won't float, try a different paint perhaps.
Did you skim the size before each laying of the color? You need to do that, if
not, the paint could possibly sink.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com



On 12/30/12, KimH<kahether@...> wrote:

I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling. I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either. I have some comments and
questions.

I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot water. I
let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping strokes
onto Arches Textwove. I laid all papers in the same direction between two press
boards while they dried.

The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions. Two tablespoons per
gallon, mixed in batches by blender. I left the carrageenan to sit overnight.

The paint - horrible results. I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk. It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water. That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo. That didn't help
either. I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the paint
floated on the surface. I ended up using some acrylics that were in a small
marbling kit with very mixed results. The other paints never floated or spread
on the surface.

Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper. I don't know why. Most of my
color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.

My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries. I still
have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little more
tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float. Is
there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints? Would it be better to try
oils?

ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Kim, I have had consistent success with my marbling, but do almost the same
things you do.  I use two Tbsp plus two tsp of Carrageenan per gallon of water,
and use Galen Berry's wonderful paints, which I order from his MarbleArt site. I
use about a teaspoon of alum per cup of water, not necessarily warm, and let the
papers dry before I stack them. I overlap the strokes in one direction, then
repeat in the opposite direction, with a wet sponge. Don't know if these
differences are the answer for you.  If you are anywhere near Northern Wisconsin
I have a Marbling Intensive class in late January at Peninsula Art School in
Fish Creek.  Or I would highly recommend a class with Galen Berry, who teaches
all over the country, or with Pat K. Thomas of Seen My Marbles?, who teaches at
John.C Campbell Folk School in North Carolina, among other places.
Best wishes for the next time.  It's well worth persevering!
Nancy Akerly

Sent from my iPad
Liberty Grove Paper Arts
http://www.libertygrovepaperarts.com

On Dec 30, 2012, at 9:00 PM, "KimH" <kahether@...> wrote:

> I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling. I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either. I have some comments and
questions.
>
> I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot water.
I let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping strokes
onto Arches Textwove. I laid all papers in the same direction between two press
boards while they dried.
>
> The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions. Two tablespoons per
gallon, mixed in batches by blender. I left the carrageenan to sit overnight.
>
> The paint - horrible results. I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk. It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water. That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo. That didn't help
either. I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the paint
floated on the surface. I ended up using some acrylics that were in a small
marbling kit with very mixed results. The other paints never floated or spread
on the surface.
>
> Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper. I don't know why. Most of my
color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.
>
> My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries. I
still have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little
more tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float.
Is there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints? Would it be better to
try oils?
>
> ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kim, I almost forget - paper!  I have marbled many different kinds of paper and
a few woods.  My favorite is also from Galen Berry, texoprint paper, which he
sells at a very reasonable rate. As he says on hisnwebsire, '. A very durable
55-lb. white paper, with a slight latex content, which makes it great for
marbling since it is not harmed or weakened when it gets wet, it won't rip or
tear easily, and it dries out flat.'    I have not had good luck with Arches.
Again best wishes,
Nancy

Sent from my iPad
Liberty Grove Paper Arts
http://www.libertygrovepaperarts.com

On Dec 30, 2012, at 9:56 PM, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:

> Kim, I have had consistent success with my marbling, but do almost the same
things you do. I use two Tbsp plus two tsp of Carrageenan per gallon of water,
and use Galen Berry's wonderful paints, which I order from his MarbleArt site. I
use about a teaspoon of alum per cup of water, not necessarily warm, and let the
papers dry before I stack them. I overlap the strokes in one direction, then
repeat in the opposite direction, with a wet sponge. Don't know if these
differences are the answer for you. If you are anywhere near Northern Wisconsin
I have a Marbling Intensive class in late January at Peninsula Art School in
Fish Creek. Or I would highly recommend a class with Galen Berry, who teaches
all over the country, or with Pat K. Thomas of Seen My Marbles?, who teaches at
John.C Campbell Folk School in North Carolina, among other places.
> Best wishes for the next time. It's well worth persevering!
> Nancy Akerly
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Liberty Grove Paper Arts
> http://www.libertygrovepaperarts.com
>
> On Dec 30, 2012, at 9:00 PM, "KimH" <kahether@...> wrote:
>
> > I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling. I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either. I have some comments and
questions.
> >
> > I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot
water. I let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping
strokes onto Arches Textwove. I laid all papers in the same direction between
two press boards while they dried.
> >
> > The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions. Two tablespoons
per gallon, mixed in batches by blender. I left the carrageenan to sit
overnight.
> >
> > The paint - horrible results. I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk. It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water. That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo. That didn't help
either. I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the paint
floated on the surface. I ended up using some acrylics that were in a small
marbling kit with very mixed results. The other paints never floated or spread
on the surface.
> >
> > Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper. I don't know why. Most of
my color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.
> >
> > My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries. I
still have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little
more tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float.
Is there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints? Would it be better to
try oils?
> >
> > ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi. i m sohail sohail from karachi pakistan.  for floating color u can add any
dishwasing detergin in color few drops it will flow better. use it then email
me.  sohail_7000@... thanks.


________________________________
  From: KimH <kahether@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: [Marbling] Sigh


 
I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling.  I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either.  I have some comments and
questions.

I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot water. 
I let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping strokes
onto Arches Textwove.  I laid all papers in the same direction between two press
boards while they dried.

The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions.  Two tablespoons per
gallon, mixed in batches by blender.  I left the carrageenan to sit overnight.

The paint - horrible results.  I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk.  It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water.  That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo.  That didn't
help either.  I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the
paint floated on the surface.  I ended up using some acrylics that were in a
small marbling kit with very mixed results.  The other paints never floated or
spread on the surface.

Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper.  I don't know why.  Most of my
color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.

My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries.  I still
have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little more
tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float.  Is
there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints?  Would it be better to
try oils?

ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, this is true. I have done this when out of ox gall. However it is VERY
strong usually (By the way I tried some "pure" brands like Dr. Bronner, and it
didn't work at all!) so I dilute a few drops, maybe 5 into 1/2 cup water, THEN
use as ox gall would be used.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com



On 12/31/12, Sohail Akhtar<sohail_7000@...> wrote:

hi. i m sohail sohail from karachi pakistan. Â for floating color u can add any
dishwasing detergin in color few drops it will flow better. use it then email
me. Â sohail_7000@... thanks.


________________________________
  From: KimH <kahether@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 8:00 AM
Subject: [Marbling] Sigh


Â
I just finished my first attempt, alone, at marbling. I didn't have great
success, but it wasn't a complete failure either. I have some comments and
questions.

I mixed the alum according to instructions - 2 Tablespoons per pint hot water. I
let that cool and then sponged (wet but not soaking) with overlapping strokes
onto Arches Textwove. I laid all papers in the same direction between two press
boards while they dried.

The carrageenan was also mixed according to instructions. Two tablespoons per
gallon, mixed in batches by blender. I left the carrageenan to sit overnight.

The paint - horrible results. I thinned acrylic, with distilled water, to a
consistency of thin cream - or milk. It didn't float on the carrageenan, so I
added more water. That didn't work, so I added some photo-flo. That didn't help
either. I didn't know if I should keep adding water or photo-flo until the paint
floated on the surface. I ended up using some acrylics that were in a small
marbling kit with very mixed results. The other paints never floated or spread
on the surface.

Also, the alum did not seem to take on the paper. I don't know why. Most of my
color washed away when I rinsed the marbled paper.

My carrageenan ended up badly contaminated and I gave up after 3 tries. I still
have some clean carrageenan, and I thought I would experiment a little more
tomorrow with the acrylics - to see if I can find a good mixture to float. Is
there a good/best mixture (recipe) for acrylic paints? Would it be better to try
oils?

ANY COMMENTS WELCOME!




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Happy New Year and Thank you so much!!

DD


-----Original Message-----
From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com on behalf of Antonio Velez Celemín
Sent: Sun 12/30/2012 6:20 AM
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Marbling] Happy Ebru 2013

I wish to everyboby in this group a happy new year 2013, and great Ebru
time¡¡¡

I'm leaving a link to a blog of one of my students and now a paste paper
and marbling artist. She has found, I don't know where, a copy of the
Halfer's abrigded edition by the Hostman Printing Ink Company of London,
the second edition of 1907. You will find there the whole copy¡¡¡¡

http://elblogdebertapapers.blogspot.com.es/    ENJOY¡¡¡¡

My best wishes

Antonio


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for your comments, Iris.  I am thinking that I did not let the paper
with alum dry all the way out.  I live in Colorado, so rarely is humidity a
problem.  I'm thinking I may have been to impatient and didn't wait till the
paper was completely dry - it was a little soft when I was working with it.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I find it better to line dry the alumed papers, THEN stack them
and make sure the room is 50% humidity or less. They should keep indefinitely
(mine have kept for years) PROVIDED the paper is suitable for marbling. Most
paper is not, Try some Unbuffered Bond from TALAS talasonline.com. That paper
works. Line dry it, roll out any curls when dry, stack it for a few days at
least.
>
> I have no explanation why your paint won't float, try a different paint
perhaps. Did you skim the size before each laying of the color? You need to do
that, if not, the paint could possibly sink.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com

Thank you for your comments, Nancy.  I think I will try adding a little more
carrageenan next time - it may help with the paints as well.
I am in Colorado, unfortunately not close enough to attend.  Thanks for the
class suggestions.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Akerly <nakerly@...> wrote:
>
> Kim, I have had consistent success with my marbling, but do almost the same
things you do.  I use two Tbsp plus two tsp of Carrageenan per gallon of water,
and use Galen Berry's wonderful paints, which I order from his MarbleArt site. I
use about a teaspoon of alum per cup of water, not necessarily warm, and let the
papers dry before I stack them. I overlap the strokes in one direction, then
repeat in the opposite direction, with a wet sponge. Don't know if these
differences are the answer for you.  If you are anywhere near Northern Wisconsin
I have a Marbling Intensive class in late January at Peninsula Art School in
Fish Creek.  Or I would highly recommend a class with Galen Berry, who teaches
all over the country, or with Pat K. Thomas of Seen My Marbles?, who teaches at
John.C Campbell Folk School in North Carolina, among other places.
> Best wishes for the next time.  It's well worth persevering!
> Nancy Akerly
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Liberty Grove Paper Arts
> http://www.libertygrovepaperarts.com

Thank you for the suggestion Sohail!  I'm willing to try that - nothing was
working yesterday, more water OR more photo-flo.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sohail Akhtar <sohail_7000@...> wrote:
>
> hi. i m sohail sohail from karachi pakistan.  for floating color u can add
any dishwasing detergin in color few drops it will flow better. use it then
email me.  sohail_7000@... thanks.
>
>

Kim, you didn't mention adding oxgall to your colors in your first email.   Not
only is the oxgall involved in floating the colors, it is the oxgall that causes
the color to adhere to the alum on the paper.  I'm not sure that having the
papers totally dry is essential.
Good luck,
Mary


________________________________
  From: KimH <kahether@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sigh


 
Thank you for your comments, Iris.  I am thinking that I did not let the paper
with alum dry all the way out.  I live in Colorado, so rarely is humidity a
problem.  I'm thinking I may have been to impatient and didn't wait till the
paper was completely dry - it was a little soft when I was working with it.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I find it better to line dry the alumed papers, THEN stack them
and make sure the room is 50% humidity or less. They should keep indefinitely
(mine have kept for years) PROVIDED the paper is suitable for marbling. Most
paper is not, Try some Unbuffered Bond from TALAS talasonline.com. That paper
works. Line dry it, roll out any curls when dry, stack it for a few days at
least.
>
> I have no explanation why your paint won't float, try a different paint
perhaps. Did you skim the size before each laying of the color? You need to do
that, if not, the paint could possibly sink.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Careful with photographic wetting agents--- The last time I used them ( over a
year ago, with watercolours) the colours failed to expand ,when added, until you
added a few more drops.... then POOF ! the colours expanded like mad, so much so
that they obliterated everything in the process - ( but on hindsight, I think it
was poor quality colours thatt did this)

With regards to soap, It is somewhat of a tricky issue. ( I used a sollution of
cheap bar soap, again with watercolours) The soap tends to make the colours
expand much, much more than gall would , which may be a bit of a problem.
Furthermore, of you leave it for a few days, thecolours tend to decompose, into
a stringy mass
But always remember, fortune favours the bold!
AL
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "KimH" <kahether@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the suggestion Sohail!  I'm willing to try that - nothing was
working yesterday, more water OR more photo-flo.
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sohail Akhtar <sohail_7000@> wrote:
> >
> > hi. i m sohail sohail from karachi pakistan.  for floating color u can add
any dishwasing detergin in color few drops it will flow better. use it then
email me.  sohail_7000@ thanks.
> >
> >
>

Usually if you work with damp paper, and many prefer to, it is best to use the
paper up quickly. The times I work damp, I'll alum say 20 or so, marble them,
then alum again. Some people can put them damp into a plastic bag and they are
good the next morning, I never had luck with that. I really hate to alum while I
marble, so alum days ahead and line dry fully. They will keep this way for many
years if conditions are right.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com


On 12/31/12, KimH<kahether@...> wrote:

Thank you for your comments, Iris. I am thinking that I did not let the paper
with alum dry all the way out. I live in Colorado, so rarely is humidity a
problem. I'm thinking I may have been to impatient and didn't wait till the
paper was completely dry - it was a little soft when I was working with it.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I find it better to line dry the alumed papers, THEN stack them
and make sure the room is 50% humidity or less. They should keep indefinitely
(mine have kept for years) PROVIDED the paper is suitable for marbling. Most
paper is not, Try some Unbuffered Bond from TALAS talasonline.com. That paper
works. Line dry it, roll out any curls when dry, stack it for a few days at
least.
>
> I have no explanation why your paint won't float, try a different paint
perhaps. Did you skim the size before each laying of the color? You need to do
that, if not, the paint could possibly sink.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

No dry paper is not essential, I just find it simpler to alum ahead and work
dry.  Are you using acrylic or watercolor? If watercolor, yes you need ox-gall,
but not the weak stuff in an art store. You need to order from a marbling
supplier. I have it, so do a few others. If acrylic, in my experience ox gall
has little to no effect on them, you need Photo Flo which I dilute since it is
very strong.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com


On 12/31/12, Mary Shilman<maryshilman@...> wrote:

Kim, you didn't mention adding oxgall to your colors in your first email. Â Not
only is the oxgall involved in floating the colors, it is the oxgall that causes
the color to adhere to the alum on the paper. Â I'm not sure that having the
papers totally dry is essential.
Good luck,
Mary


________________________________
  From: KimH <kahether@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 5:28 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Sigh


Â
Thank you for your comments, Iris. I am thinking that I did not let the paper
with alum dry all the way out. I live in Colorado, so rarely is humidity a
problem. I'm thinking I may have been to impatient and didn't wait till the
paper was completely dry - it was a little soft when I was working with it.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> First of all, I find it better to line dry the alumed papers, THEN stack them
and make sure the room is 50% humidity or less. They should keep indefinitely
(mine have kept for years) PROVIDED the paper is suitable for marbling. Most
paper is not, Try some Unbuffered Bond from TALAS talasonline.com. That paper
works. Line dry it, roll out any curls when dry, stack it for a few days at
least.
>
> I have no explanation why your paint won't float, try a different paint
perhaps. Did you skim the size before each laying of the color? You need to do
that, if not, the paint could possibly sink.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Anthony, this is why I recommend to dilute the PhotoFlo or soap (PhotoFlo
preferred, soap in an emergency!) in water, THEN use with a dropped as you would
the ox gall. You have more control over it this way.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com



On 12/31/12, anthonianthonianthoni<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:

Careful with photographic wetting agents--- The last time I used them ( over a
year ago, with watercolours) the colours failed to expand ,when added, until you
added a few more drops.... then POOF ! the colours expanded like mad, so much so
that they obliterated everything in the process - ( but on hindsight, I think it
was poor quality colours thatt did this)

With regards to soap, It is somewhat of a tricky issue. ( I used a sollution of
cheap bar soap, again with watercolours) The soap tends to make the colours
expand much, much more than gall would , which may be a bit of a problem.
Furthermore, of you leave it for a few days, thecolours tend to decompose, into
a stringy mass
But always remember, fortune favours the bold!
AL
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "KimH" <kahether@...> wrote:
>
> Thank you for the suggestion Sohail! I'm willing to try that - nothing was
working yesterday, more water OR more photo-flo.
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Sohail Akhtar <sohail_7000@> wrote:
> >
> > hi. i m sohail sohail from karachi pakistan. Â for floating color u can add
any dishwasing detergin in color few drops it will flow better. use it then
email me. Â sohail_7000@ thanks.
> >
> >
>




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links