Hi Iris

This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
process that I don't understand.

Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
then maybe try distilled.

Thanks for your input.

Yehuda



Yehuda Miklaf

Jerusalem

  <mailto:fritzmiklaf@...> fritzmiklaf@...

  <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/> www.yehudamiklaf.com





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi!
  I have a water softener in my home, and use softened water;  I marble with
methylcel and Goldens and other craft paints and have no issues except that the
pH of my water is often 6 or a little lower, so I put in a little more ammonia
when mixing the M/C.
Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis





-----Original Message-----
From: fritzmiklaf <fritzmiklaf@...>
To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 6:34 am
Subject: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...





Hi Iris

This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
process that I don't understand.

Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
then maybe try distilled.

Thanks for your input.

Yehuda

Yehuda Miklaf

Jerusalem

<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...> fritzmiklaf@...

<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/> www.yehudamiklaf.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I recall Don saying reverse osmosis systems were OK, if I am correct. Don, are
you on this group? I think not, but just in case, maybe you recall the water
issue. I always thought NYC tap water divine, but had to use less size powder
that in my area.

Yehuda... I'd just try the tap water, it may be perfect. If it's not, please
keep in mind it may not be the water, but the buffering issues on the papers.

Iris Nevins
www.mqrblingpaper.com<http://www.mqrblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:33 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...


   Hi Iris

   This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
   long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
   It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
   process that I don't understand.

   Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
   paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
   am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
   'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
   thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
   then maybe try distilled.

   Thanks for your input.

   Yehuda



   Yehuda Miklaf

   Jerusalem

    <mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>
fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>

    <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>>
www.yehudamiklaf.com<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>





   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I imagine it varies from one paint maker or method to another. So do what works.
Water softeners don't like my paints one bit!  It's not a drastic difference,
but enough to be annoying when you know the paper would be better with other
water.

One thing, and maybe it relates more to acrylics, and I don't pretend to know
everything about marbling....but why exactly is the PH and issue. I never heard
a thing about it until people marbling with acrylics on MC size. Will test mine
out of curiosity... or maybe  just add ammonia for the fun of it in a test tray.
I will be using watercolors. Try everything is my motto, sometimes it works.

Is there a drastic difference in the end result with the ammonia or raising or
lowering the PH? I tend not to mess with what works, and what I do with hard
water, it works fine. The real problem has been paper. If there is something to
tweak to make buffered papers perhaps take the color, I am ready to try
anything. So what happens if you do not add the ammonia Caryl? Curious.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

---- Original Message -----
   From: carylhanc@...<mailto:carylhanc@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:59 AM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...


   Hi!
    I have a water softener in my home, and use softened water;  I marble with
methylcel and Goldens and other craft paints and have no issues except that the
pH of my water is often 6 or a little lower, so I put in a little more ammonia
when mixing the M/C.
   Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis





   -----Original Message-----
   From: fritzmiklaf <fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>
   To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
   Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 6:34 am
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...





   Hi Iris

   This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
   long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
   It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
   process that I don't understand.

   Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
   paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
   am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
   'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
   thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
   then maybe try distilled.

   Thanks for your input.

   Yehuda

   Yehuda Miklaf

   Jerusalem

   <mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>
fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>

   <http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>>
www.yehudamiklaf.com<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, Iris and all,


The ammonia has to do only with the use of methylcel, which does not actually
dissolve, but swells, and it needs a higher pH to do that.  Most recipes for
using M/C include some quantity of ammonia (clear, unscented, non-sudzing)  - 1
tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon, added after the M/C has had a brief chance to  be stirred
to disperse in the water.  For me, that is usually a couple of minutes, despite
the recipe suggesting to wait several minutes to 1/2 hour.


Without adding the ammonia, the M/C will form gelatinous clumps or a huge mass
(think Jello!) on the bottom of the bucket, which no amount of stirring,
blending, pushing through a sieve, or even adding the ammonia then, etc., will
disperse (learned that lesson the hard way!). I did get one M/C supplier to
finally acknowledge that insufficient ammonia was the culprit in the mess, and
very early on in my experience, when that happened to me, another supplier
suggested that I had "old" ammonia. While I don't usually test my water pH each
time I make a batch of size, I also usually err on the side of adding an extra
small splash of ammonia. I try to aim for a pH of about 8 in the water for
mixing the M/C.  And what often happens by the time the M/C has aged, the pH has
returned to about 7 or neutral; I figure that is because the ammonia (NH4OH) has
"separated," and the ammonia has dispersed into the air and the OH- has joined
its companions in the bucket of water. Please keep in mind that my high school
and college chemistry was very long ago!


I hope that helps!


  Caryl in Indiana


-----Original Message-----
From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:38 am
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...





I imagine it varies from one paint maker or method to another. So do what works.
Water softeners don't like my paints one bit!  It's not a drastic difference,
but enough to be annoying when you know the paper would be better with other
water.

One thing, and maybe it relates more to acrylics, and I don't pretend to know
everything about marbling....but why exactly is the PH and issue. I never heard
a thing about it until people marbling with acrylics on MC size. Will test mine
out of curiosity... or maybe  just add ammonia for the fun of it in a test tray.
I will be using watercolors. Try everything is my motto, sometimes it works.

Is there a drastic difference in the end result with the ammonia or raising or
lowering the PH? I tend not to mess with what works, and what I do with hard
water, it works fine. The real problem has been paper. If there is something to
tweak to make buffered papers perhaps take the color, I am ready to try
anything. So what happens if you do not add the ammonia Caryl? Curious.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<;http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

---- Original Message -----
   From: carylhanc@...<mailto:carylhanc@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:59 AM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...

Hi!
    I have a water softener in my home, and use softened water;  I marble with
methylcel and Goldens and other craft paints and have no issues except that the
pH of my water is often 6 or a little lower, so I put in a little more ammonia
when mixing the M/C.
   Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis

-----Original Message-----
   From: fritzmiklaf <fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>
   To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
   Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 6:34 am
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...

Hi Iris

This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
   long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
   It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
   process that I don't understand.

Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
   paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
   am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
   'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
   thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
   then maybe try distilled.

Thanks for your input.

Yehuda

Yehuda Miklaf

Jerusalem

<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>
fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...>

<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>>
www.yehudamiklaf.com<;http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interesting, thanks. I have used MC and just followed the recipe with ammonia
and never questioned. It worked but I like carrageenan better. I just make what
I need for the day and don't store it. Now I am curious as to what ammonia may
do to carrageenan, if anything. Always experimenting.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: carylhanc@...<mailto:carylhanc@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 2:22 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...


   Hi, Iris and all,


   The ammonia has to do only with the use of methylcel, which does not actually
dissolve, but swells, and it needs a higher pH to do that.  Most recipes for
using M/C include some quantity of ammonia (clear, unscented, non-sudzing)  - 1
tsp to 1 TBSP/gallon, added after the M/C has had a brief chance to  be stirred
to disperse in the water.  For me, that is usually a couple of minutes, despite
the recipe suggesting to wait several minutes to 1/2 hour.


   Without adding the ammonia, the M/C will form gelatinous clumps or a huge mass
(think Jello!) on the bottom of the bucket, which no amount of stirring,
blending, pushing through a sieve, or even adding the ammonia then, etc., will
disperse (learned that lesson the hard way!). I did get one M/C supplier to
finally acknowledge that insufficient ammonia was the culprit in the mess, and
very early on in my experience, when that happened to me, another supplier
suggested that I had "old" ammonia. While I don't usually test my water pH each
time I make a batch of size, I also usually err on the side of adding an extra
small splash of ammonia. I try to aim for a pH of about 8 in the water for
mixing the M/C.  And what often happens by the time the M/C has aged, the pH has
returned to about 7 or neutral; I figure that is because the ammonia (NH4OH) has
"separated," and the ammonia has dispersed into the air and the OH- has joined
its companions in the bucket of water. Please keep in mind
    that my high school and college chemistry was very long ago!


   I hope that helps!


    Caryl in Indiana


   -----Original Message-----
   From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...<mailto:irisnevins@...>>
   To: Marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
   Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 9:38 am
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...





   I imagine it varies from one paint maker or method to another. So do what
works. Water softeners don't like my paints one bit!  It's not a drastic
difference, but enough to be annoying when you know the paper would be better
with other water.

   One thing, and maybe it relates more to acrylics, and I don't pretend to know
everything about marbling....but why exactly is the PH and issue. I never heard
a thing about it until people marbling with acrylics on MC size. Will test mine
out of curiosity... or maybe  just add ammonia for the fun of it in a test tray.
I will be using watercolors. Try everything is my motto, sometimes it works.

   Is there a drastic difference in the end result with the ammonia or raising or
lowering the PH? I tend not to mess with what works, and what I do with hard
water, it works fine. The real problem has been paper. If there is something to
tweak to make buffered papers perhaps take the color, I am ready to try
anything. So what happens if you do not add the ammonia Caryl? Curious.

   Iris Nevins
  
www.marblingpaper.com<;http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.co\
m%3c;http//www.marblingpaper.com/>>

   ---- Original Message -----
     From:
carylhanc@...<mailto:carylhanc@...<mailto:carylhanc@...%3Cmailto:car\
ylhanc@...>>
     To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
     Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 10:59 AM
     Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...

   Hi!
      I have a water softener in my home, and use softened water;  I marble with
methylcel and Goldens and other craft paints and have no issues except that the
pH of my water is often 6 or a little lower, so I put in a little more ammonia
when mixing the M/C.
     Caryl Hancock, Indianapolis

   -----Original Message-----
     From: fritzmiklaf
<fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@bez\
eqint.net%3Cmailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>>
     To: Marbling
<Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoog\
roups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>>
     Sent: Thu, Sep 15, 2011 6:34 am
     Subject: [Marbling] Re: to Rinse or not to Rinse...

   Hi Iris

   This is funny because when Don Guyot gave his first workshop in Toronto (too
     long ago to remember) he thought the water from Shelagh's house was great.
     It turned out that she had a water softener that was some sort of salt
     process that I don't understand.

   Our water in Jerusalem is really hard and Ph7 which is great for washing
     paper, but I am fearful about using it for marbling. I should explain that I
     am about to get back into marbling after years of neglect. I am doing a
     'semi-retirement' from binding so that I can print and marble again. I was
     thinking of installing a water softener, but maybe I'll experiment first and
     then maybe try distilled.

   Thanks for your input.

   Yehuda

   Yehuda Miklaf

   Jerusalem

  
<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmik\
laf@...%3Cmailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>>
fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@...<mailto:fritzmiklaf@beze\
qint.net%3Cmailto:fritzmiklaf@...>>

  
<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamikl\
af.com/%3Chttp://www.yehudamiklaf.com/>>>
www.yehudamiklaf.com<;http://www.yehudamiklaf.com/<http://www.yehudamiklaf.com%3\
c;http//www.yehudamiklaf.com/>>

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

We wish to withdraw from the marbling group. While the group has been helpful in
the past we are no longer marbling.
Our 2 email addresses are :

nspointer@...
and
susanpointer66@...

We do not wish to receive group mail at either of those addresses.
Thanks
Susan and Norman Pointer

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<p>debt collectors are so annoying despite the circumstances I stayed optimistic
this was the perfect solution.<br><a
href="http://pol-cert.home.pl/RobertCarter99.html">http://pol-cert.home.pl/Rober\
tCarter99.html</a> now I am complete dont wait to try it out<br>Just thought you
might want to see this</p>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<p>I have always worked hard for what I wanted all my options were fading fast I
was able to regain my independence using this!!<br><a
href="http://pofrose.web.fc2.com/WayneCampbel47.html">http://pofrose.web.fc2.com\
/WayneCampbel47.html</a> now im the one that makes the calls just looking out
for you<br>trust me, you will be happy</p>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Am I being dim, or are Murats messages somewhat cryptic? If they are, can
something be done about it?

Susanne Krause

I am aware of those messages and the member has been given a final warning
before being banned.

Moderator
John Ang


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de" <studio@...> wrote:
>
> Am I being dim, or are Murats messages somewhat cryptic? If they are, can
something be done about it?
>
> Susanne Krause
>

Dear All,

  Let me invite you to some colaboration I did with an Argentinean artist.

http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/serie-c�2011-colaboracion-con-rafael-\
gil-para-gira-cambatango/

I hope you enjoy!!

This is other work I am preparing for a Cuban- surrealist artist..

http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/obra-en-colaboracion-con-el-pintor-cu\
bano-juan-francisco-cancio/

Both are Oil over methyl cellulose. Paper is Magnani Bianca 220grs.

Your comments will be highly appreciated!

Kindes regards

Ato Menegazzo

WONDERFUL, I like it very much, fantastic.
Antonio

2011/9/22 Ato <atomenegazzo@...>

> **
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> Let me invite you to some colaboration I did with an Argentinean artist.
>
> http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/serie-c
> �2011-colaboracion-con-rafael-gil-para-gira-cambatango/
>
> I hope you enjoy!!
>
> This is other work I am preparing for a Cuban- surrealist artist..
>
>
>
http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/obra-en-colaboracion-con-el-pintor-cu\
bano-juan-francisco-cancio/
>
> Both are Oil over methyl cellulose. Paper is Magnani Bianca 220grs.
>
> Your comments will be highly appreciated!
>
> Kindes regards
>
> Ato Menegazzo
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Antonio,

Thanks a lot for your message! I admire your works and the way you share them,

Sincerely
Ato
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Velez Celem�n <ANVECE@...> wrote:
>
> WONDERFUL, I like it very much, fantastic.
> Antonio
>
> 2011/9/22 Ato <atomenegazzo@...>
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > Let me invite you to some colaboration I did with an Argentinean artist.
> >
> > http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/serie-c
> > �2011-colaboracion-con-rafael-gil-para-gira-cambatango/
> >
> > I hope you enjoy!!
> >
> > This is other work I am preparing for a Cuban- surrealist artist..
> >
> >
> >
http://amarmolado.wordpress.com/2011/04/01/obra-en-colaboracion-con-el-pintor-cu\
bano-juan-francisco-cancio/
> >
> > Both are Oil over methyl cellulose. Paper is Magnani Bianca 220grs.
> >
> > Your comments will be highly appreciated!
> >
> > Kindes regards
> >
> > Ato Menegazzo
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS MESSAGE. RESPOND TO
orders@....



Check out the new Oak Knoll Press Fall 2011 Publishing Catalogue. It
includes both brand new titles and bestselling older titles from Oak Knoll
Press, and books that we distribute for other publishers, featuring our
newest publisher, the Grolier Club.



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Buy with confidence of consumer protection when you buy from an ILAB
bookseller





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello! I am a new member in search of some expert advice.

I have some experience with paper marbling, which I gained through a job at the
archives and rare books library at my university.

I am now studying abroad in Istanbul and was interested in taking classes, or
working with paper marblers here.

Please point me to any and all information and opportunities: classes,
individuals, workshops, book craft stores and resources, etc.

Thank you so much for your help!

Contact Hikmet Barut�ugil at Ebristan.

Susanne Krause

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "lilypudu" <walsh.lilia@...> wrote:
>
> Hello! I am a new member in search of some expert advice.
>
> I have some experience with paper marbling, which I gained through a job at
the archives and rare books library at my university.
>
> I am now studying abroad in Istanbul and was interested in taking classes, or
working with paper marblers here.
>
> Please point me to any and all information and opportunities: classes,
individuals, workshops, book craft stores and resources, etc.
>
> Thank you so much for your help!
>

contact Hayrettin YANG�Z.
1453 PANORAM�C MUSEUM. MARBL�NG PAPER WORKSHOP
TOPKAPI/�STANBUL
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "lilypudu" <walsh.lilia@...> wrote:
>
> Hello! I am a new member in search of some expert advice.
>
> I have some experience with paper marbling, which I gained through a job at
the archives and rare books library at my university.
>
> I am now studying abroad in Istanbul and was interested in taking classes, or
working with paper marblers here.
>
> Please point me to any and all information and opportunities: classes,
individuals, workshops, book craft stores and resources, etc.
>
> Thank you so much for your help!
>

I think you must go to (Küçük Ayasofya Camii) Little Hagia sophia
mosque.Behind Hagia Sophia.Show to whom you ask. You can see too much
marbling artist who is a master, in this area. For example; Fuat Başer,
Yılmaz Eneş, Mahmut Peşteli(he is imam of this mosque).

Good Luck

Hüseyin KAYA
www.huseyinkaya.org


2011/10/5 mazruf786 <hayrettinyangoz@...>

> **
>
>
>
> contact Hayrettin YANGÖZ.
> 1453 PANORAMÝC MUSEUM. MARBLÝNG PAPER WORKSHOP
> TOPKAPI/ÝSTANBUL
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "lilypudu" <walsh.lilia@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello! I am a new member in search of some expert advice.
> >
> > I have some experience with paper marbling, which I gained through a job
> at the archives and rare books library at my university.
> >
> > I am now studying abroad in Istanbul and was interested in taking
> classes, or working with paper marblers here.
> >
> > Please point me to any and all information and opportunities: classes,
> individuals, workshops, book craft stores and resources, etc.
> >
> > Thank you so much for your help!
> >
>
>
>



--
Hüseyin KAYA
Elektrik Mühendisi
Eltaş Elektrik Ltd. Şti.
Turgut Reis Cad. No: 27/2,
06570 Tandoğan/ Ankara

Ankara Tel:  0312 229 27 46 - 231 98 90
Ankara Faks: 0312 229 37 35
Cep  : 0533 633 63 59


www.eltaselektrik.com.tr


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am helping Kathryn  to post this message. Can anyone help?

++++++++++
Searching for a workshop anywhere in the North Eastern United States. Please
send any information as to whom I may contact, thank you.

Kathryn in Amherst, MA

kathrynfanelli@...

I rearranged my marbling room when I moved it back inside for the winter
and I have a tall shelf at the end of the big scarf tank now, so it makes it
a bit more awkward for me.  I was trying to marble a larger scarf - 15 x 72,
which barely fits in my tank in the first place.  Two of them folded before
I could get the end down all the way.  I had a helper and one time it was on
her end, one time on mine, so I have blank places where it folded.

Do you have any suggestions for toning them to match the rest of the scarf?

One has a blank 2" horizontal band at the end of the scarf, so if I have to,
I'll cut it off and re-hem it.  The other one though, has a 2" wide diagonal
place near the one end.  It turned out great otherwise, so hate to give up
on it.  Usually I'm better at placing the scarves, but wasn't used to my new
arrangement.

I was using acrylic paint on methyl cellulose size on silk scarves that had
been alumned.  I also have silk paints available.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Sue Cole


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I goofed up on scarves, or fabric, I have ghost marbled or overmarbled with
great results. You can still see the spot if you look, but not too bad.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
   To: marbling<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:18 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] need a suggestion


   I rearranged my marbling room when I moved it back inside for the winter
   and I have a tall shelf at the end of the big scarf tank now, so it makes it
   a bit more awkward for me.  I was trying to marble a larger scarf - 15 x 72,
   which barely fits in my tank in the first place.  Two of them folded before
   I could get the end down all the way.  I had a helper and one time it was on
   her end, one time on mine, so I have blank places where it folded.

   Do you have any suggestions for toning them to match the rest of the scarf?

   One has a blank 2" horizontal band at the end of the scarf, so if I have to,
   I'll cut it off and re-hem it.  The other one though, has a 2" wide diagonal
   place near the one end.  It turned out great otherwise, so hate to give up
   on it.  Usually I'm better at placing the scarves, but wasn't used to my new
   arrangement.

   I was using acrylic paint on methyl cellulose size on silk scarves that had
   been alumned.  I also have silk paints available.

   Thanks for any suggestions.
   Sue Cole


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Overmarbling.


________________________________
From: Sue Cole <akartisan@...>
To: marbling <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2011 3:18 AM
Subject: [Marbling] need a suggestion


 
I rearranged my marbling room when I moved it back inside for the winter
and I have a tall shelf at the end of the big scarf tank now, so it makes it
a bit more awkward for me.  I was trying to marble a larger scarf - 15 x 72,
which barely fits in my tank in the first place.  Two of them folded before
I could get the end down all the way.  I had a helper and one time it was on
her end, one time on mine, so I have blank places where it folded.

Do you have any suggestions for toning them to match the rest of the scarf?

One has a blank 2" horizontal band at the end of the scarf, so if I have to,
I'll cut it off and re-hem it.  The other one though, has a 2" wide diagonal
place near the one end.  It turned out great otherwise, so hate to give up
on it.  Usually I'm better at placing the scarves, but wasn't used to my new
arrangement.

I was using acrylic paint on methyl cellulose size on silk scarves that had
been alumned.  I also have silk paints available.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Sue Cole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

I am a little confused by your directions, as the Küçük Ayasofya is not
behind the Hagia Sophia, but there is a center their that offers craft
workshops, is this what you are refering to?

Thank you for your help!

-Lilia

2011/10/5 Hüseyin KAYA <huseyinkaya34@...>

> **
>
>
> I think you must go to (Küçük Ayasofya Camii) Little Hagia sophia
> mosque.Behind Hagia Sophia.Show to whom you ask. You can see too much
> marbling artist who is a master, in this area. For example; Fuat Başer,
> Yılmaz Eneş, Mahmut Peşteli(he is imam of this mosque).
>
> Good Luck
>
> Hüseyin KAYA
> www.huseyinkaya.org
>
> 2011/10/5 mazruf786 <hayrettinyangoz@...>
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> >
> > contact Hayrettin YANGÖZ.
> > 1453 PANORAMÝC MUSEUM. MARBLÝNG PAPER WORKSHOP
> > TOPKAPI/ÝSTANBUL
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "lilypudu" <walsh.lilia@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello! I am a new member in search of some expert advice.
> > >
> > > I have some experience with paper marbling, which I gained through a
> job
> > at the archives and rare books library at my university.
> > >
> > > I am now studying abroad in Istanbul and was interested in taking
> > classes, or working with paper marblers here.
> > >
> > > Please point me to any and all information and opportunities: classes,
> > individuals, workshops, book craft stores and resources, etc.
> > >
> > > Thank you so much for your help!
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Hüseyin KAYA
> Elektrik Mühendisi
> Eltaş Elektrik Ltd. Şti.
> Turgut Reis Cad. No: 27/2,
> 06570 Tandoğan/ Ankara
>
> Ankara Tel: 0312 229 27 46 - 231 98 90
> Ankara Faks: 0312 229 37 35
> Cep : 0533 633 63 59
>
> www.eltaselektrik.com.tr
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?

*the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm

Hi - 

Basically you're right about how the example in the marblersapprentice was
achieved.  There is an initial dark drop, with a second light drop placed on
the edge.  There are several cross-wise, back and forth combs in the middle of
the "stone" and then the stylus is pulled through from the light to dark.
If you are more extreme in your side-to-side combing you can produce holly
leaves (featured in an Ink & Gall in wreath form one year - I'll try to find
it).  You can also make beautiful feathers this way as well.

Happy marbling.

Mary Shilman


________________________________
From: anthonianthonianthoni <anthonianthonianthoni@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:17 AM
Subject: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


 
I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?

*the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That particular patter/paper as pictured is common to the 1700s and early 1800s,
though I never heard of it being called that. I know it as a form of what is
called Antique Spot. It was called antique back in the 1800s as far as I know,
which says it is pretty old indeed. Not sure if this is 100%, so open to
corrections. There were no right or wrong names, no one has ever formalized the
nomenclature of patterns. What I call Bouquet is often called Fan or Peacock.
What I call Zebra has been called Rainbow Spanish. On and on.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Mary Shilman<mailto:maryshilman@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 12:33 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


   Hi -

   Basically you're right about how the example in the marblersapprentice was
achieved. There is an initial dark drop, with a second light drop placed on the
edge. There are several cross-wise, back and forth combs in the middle of the
"stone" and then the stylus is pulled through from the light to dark.
   If you are more extreme in your side-to-side combing you can produce holly
leaves (featured in an Ink & Gall in wreath form one year - I'll try to find
it). You can also make beautiful feathers this way as well.

   Happy marbling.

   Mary Shilman


   ________________________________
   From: anthonianthonianthoni
<anthonianthonianthoni@...<mailto:anthonianthonianthoni@...>>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:17 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern



   I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

   however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

   Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?

   *the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm<http://www.marblersapp\
rentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm>




   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The article in Ink & Gall about marbling with "spots of color" is in Vol V,
No.1, pg. 14-16. The picture of the wreath is in Vol III, No. 2, pg. 37. The
article is by Paulette J. Roades. I especially remember her using Signal
mouthwash in place of gall and saying she tried the same with Scope, but it
didn't work as well. This article was written in 1991, and I don't think Signal
mouthwash is still on the market. I always wanted to try the wreath, but never
got around to doing it.

Cheers!

d.guffey


From: Mary Shilman
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 9:33 AM
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern



Hi -

Basically you're right about how the example in the marblersapprentice was
achieved.  There is an initial dark drop, with a second light drop placed on the
edge.  There are several cross-wise, back and forth combs in the middle of the
"stone" and then the stylus is pulled through from the light to dark.
If you are more extreme in your side-to-side combing you can produce holly
leaves (featured in an Ink & Gall in wreath form one year - I'll try to find
it).  You can also make beautiful feathers this way as well.

Happy marbling.

Mary Shilman

________________________________
From: anthonianthonianthoni <anthonianthonianthoni@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:17 AM
Subject: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?

*the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Wow....yes...Signal mouthwash. I meant to try it 20 years back! Never did. Try
anything.

As for the pattern, its not hard, and yes, you drag a stylus through the spots.
Usually a navy background. Anything you want though.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: D or Jer Guffey<mailto:dguff@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 5:34 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


   The article in Ink & Gall about marbling with "spots of color" is in Vol V,
No.1, pg. 14-16. The picture of the wreath is in Vol III, No. 2, pg. 37. The
article is by Paulette J. Roades. I especially remember her using Signal
mouthwash in place of gall and saying she tried the same with Scope, but it
didn't work as well. This article was written in 1991, and I don't think Signal
mouthwash is still on the market. I always wanted to try the wreath, but never
got around to doing it.

   Cheers!

   d.guffey


   From: Mary Shilman
   Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 9:33 AM
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern



   Hi -

   Basically you're right about how the example in the marblersapprentice was
achieved.  There is an initial dark drop, with a second light drop placed on the
edge.  There are several cross-wise, back and forth combs in the middle of the
"stone" and then the stylus is pulled through from the light to dark.
   If you are more extreme in your side-to-side combing you can produce holly
leaves (featured in an Ink & Gall in wreath form one year - I'll try to find
it).  You can also make beautiful feathers this way as well.

   Happy marbling.

   Mary Shilman

   ________________________________
   From: anthonianthonianthoni
<anthonianthonianthoni@...<mailto:anthonianthonianthoni@...>>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 7:17 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] oak leaf pattern


   I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.

   however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.

   Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?

   *the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm<http://www.marblersapp\
rentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm>

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Oak Leaf pattern (feuille de chene) is a variation of the Placard pattern
dating to 18th century France and Germany.  I cannot determine when the name was
given to the pattern because there is little written about these patterns and
they were not used after the 18th century.  Marie-Ange Doizy does refer to the
pattern by that name in her book Le Papier Marbre published in 1985 but gives no
history of the term.  It was probably just attached to the pattern along the way
because of its obvious leaf-like appearance.  Diderot discusses the fabrication
of the placard pattern as follows:  throw down red to cover the size.  Then
throw down drops of blue in rows, five rows of blue with six spots od blue for
each row.  Throw down rows of green between the blue, five rows of green with
six spots per row.  Next put down rows of yellow spots between the green and
blue, five or six spots per row.  Finally, shower the size with small spots of
white, "like lentils".  Diderot adds that if you like you can then trace
"palmes" (palm leaves) or "frisons" (curls).  I assume the palm leaf refers to
the oak leaf pattern, so technically we should be calling it the Palm Leaf
Pattern.  Interestingly, most versions that I have seen on old books don't
follow the directions, I think because the individual spots of color are not as
interesting to our eyes as when there is some contrast color with the base spot.
What I do is put down rows of blue spots, somewhat widely spaced on a ground of
red.  Then I'll put down spots of green and yellow in a spot of blue (not
bulls-eye but more random or asymmetrically), but  leaving some blue spots open.
Then shower with white, comb down with a 1/4" comb, and stylus through the spots
to make the leaf pattern.  A good example of the pattern is found in Nedim
Sonmez book "Ebru", page 57 and that is the example I like to follow - it
clearly does not follow Diderot's directions but is more attractive for Oak
Leaf, in my opinion.  As with all marbling there was constant variation of
pattern (particularly with this pattern, although with most bindings you only
see a small portion of the paper and so the overall layout of color is
impossible to decifer for such a large pattern), however, the 17th and 18th
century French and German patterns, as a rule, had much greater specificity as
to how the colors should be laid down than later marbling.
Garrett Dixon
The Marbler's Apprentice


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "anthonianthonianthoni"
<anthonianthonianthoni@...> wrote:
>
> I have heard of this pattern of marbled paper called the "oak leaf" pattern.*
info I can gather about this pattern is scarce, as well as examples of it. the
only book ( to my knowledge) that teaches you how to do this is miura's 'the art
of marbled paper' , which provides very vague instructions.
>
> however, form what I can deduce from looking at the samples of such paper, it
appears to look like a pattern produced by directly combing through a stone
pattern , and afterwards stylusing it.
>
> Does any one of you have any experience in doing this pattern? can you provide
me with more info/ examples?
>
> *the only sample I came across was this:
http://www.marblersapprentice.com/Sample%2018th%20cty.htm
>