Iris will know more, but with the powdered pigments, you can mix them with
gum arabic, that's the usual base for watercolors.  Watercolors are normally
more successful on paper rather than fabric.  Gum arabic is a medium for
watercolors and you can find it in a paint supply place or you might have it
in your box already.  Through a suggestion from someone else, I was able to
buy a gallon container of it from a printer - they use it on their machines.

The main thing is to keep trying.
Sue


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing  Borax &
water together. This makes the Acrylic  Enamel paint float on top of the
water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
like it to be, then dip it into my solution.


I have tried this with  Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.


I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together.  I mix 1/4
cup to one quart

Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.

Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless

Hello R2D2
I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled excellent.
Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then its
tried and true.
Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld into
the mordant(alum).
The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
This is my guess with the experience I have.
I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
John

On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>
> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>
> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> cup to one quart
>
> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>
> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One more thing John.

What type of paint/ink are you using?

Thanks again
Take care and God Bless

Joe

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>
> Hello R2D2
> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled excellent.
> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then its
> tried and true.
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld into
> the mordant(alum).
> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> John
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >
> > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >
> > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > cup to one quart
> >
> > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hey John:

My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. Sorry but I
don't understand this line..

Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?

Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which work well.
Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food grade, which I
don't know if this will work.

I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store and see what
happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You this this is to
strong or to week.

Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.


Joe
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>
> Hello R2D2
> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled excellent.
> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then its
> tried and true.
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld into
> the mordant(alum).
> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> John
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >
> > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >
> > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > cup to one quart
> >
> > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
tried
different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."

Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
Mary on this list is great with wood.
Mary are you out there?
Hope this helps
John

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hey John:
>
> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. Sorry
> but I don't understand this line..
>
>
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>
> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which work
> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food grade,
> which I don't know if this will work.
>
> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store and see
> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You this
> this is to strong or to week.
>
> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>
>
> Joe
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello R2D2
> > I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> excellent.
> > Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then
> its
> > tried and true.
> > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld
> into
> > the mordant(alum).
> > The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> > This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >
> > > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >
> > > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > > cup to one quart
> > >
> > > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >
> > > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello again John,

I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been talking to
Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a great job and
has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for me to join groups
like this and read about it.  I have tried sanding it with a good sand paper
also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay
on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and when I rinse
it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.

Thanks again, take care and God Bless

Joe


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>
> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> tried
> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>
> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> Mary are you out there?
> Hope this helps
> John
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Hey John:
> >
> > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. Sorry
> > but I don't understand this line..
> >
> >
> > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >
> > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which work
> > well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food grade,
> > which I don't know if this will work.
> >
> > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store and see
> > what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You this
> > this is to strong or to week.
> >
> > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >
> >
> > Joe
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> > <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello R2D2
> > > I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > > I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > excellent.
> > > Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then
> > its
> > > tried and true.
> > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > > I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld
> > into
> > > the mordant(alum).
> > > The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> > > This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > > I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > > > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > > > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > > > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > > > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > > >
> > > > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > > > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > > > cup to one quart
> > > >
> > > > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > > > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Joe
I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a shellac over
it.
Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
John

On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:

>
>
> Hello again John,
>
> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been talking
> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a great job
> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for me to join
> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a good sand
> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The
> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick
> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
>
> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
>
>
> Joe
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
> >
> > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >
> > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > Mary are you out there?
> > Hope this helps
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hey John:
> > >
> > > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> Sorry
> > > but I don't understand this line..
> > >
> > >
> > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which work
> > > well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> grade,
> > > which I don't know if this will work.
> > >
> > > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store and
> see
> > > what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
> this
> > > this is to strong or to week.
> > >
> > > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe
> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
>
> > > <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hello R2D2
> > > > I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > > > I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > > excellent.
> > > > Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> supplier...then
> > > its
> > > > tried and true.
> > > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > > > I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> meld
> > > into
> > > > the mordant(alum).
> > > > The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try
> it.
> > > > This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > > > I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > > > John
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax
> &
> > > > > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of
> the
> > > > > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> would
> > > > > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > > > > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> tried
> > > > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > > > > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> 1/4
> > > > > cup to one quart
> > > > >
> > > > > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > > > > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, but have not
been having much luck - it globs together on the ornament.  Looks okay on the
water, but not on the ornament.

Anyone have any luck with this?

In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push vases, lamps,
etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, then it would be marbled as
you brought it up?  Does anyone remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into
marbling in those days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs
and shows.
Sue

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>
> Hello R2D2
> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled excellent.
> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then its
> tried and true.
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld into
> the mordant(alum).
> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> John
>
> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >
> > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >
> > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > cup to one quart
> >
> > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >
> > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Yes I DO!
Remember someone spraying spray paint on water and marbling glass ornaments
at a juried art show...
Pure mud marbling.They sold their pieces as do your own for 3 dollars each.
It actually made my shirts stick out as NICE so I sold well and paper cards
too.
The smell of that paint was awful! The results were not marbling as we know
it.
The irony is 6 weeks later at a show in Santa Fe on the plaza, there was a
woman doing paper demos and you could paint a big sheet of paper for 3
dollars! This was super work too the weather was perfect.
Then I met the folks doing it Katherine Levine, Cov and Leach! I had read
articles in ink and gall about these folks and was thrilled to meet them and
see them working.
  So please if your going to do some marbling in public use carrageenan and
paper and not spray paint on water so people can see the real stuff!
Anyone else have some demo stories to share?
John Goode
watermarktile.com

On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 12:17 AM, artsycole <akartisan@...> wrote:

>
>
> I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, but have
> not been having much luck - it globs together on the ornament. Looks okay on
> the water, but not on the ornament.
>
> Anyone have any luck with this?
>
> In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push vases,
> lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, then it would be
> marbled as you brought it up? Does anyone remember this or waht they used? I
> wasn't into marbling in those days, so didn't pay attention - they used to
> do it at fairs and shows.
> Sue
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello R2D2
> > I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> excellent.
> > Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then
> its
> > tried and true.
> > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld
> into
> > the mordant(alum).
> > The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> > This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >
> > > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >
> > > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > > cup to one quart
> > >
> > > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >
> > > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I can help with this one because I have been doing it for about two years
now.

    Anyway, to do it I use about two cups of Borax to forty five gallons of tap
water. This does depending on how hard your water is. Do not use water that
comes out of a treatment system if you have one in your house. Just plain old
tap water. I let it sit for about one hour after I mix it. I use a drill and a
plaster paddle you can get at the HomeDepot, but you can do it by hand. After it
sets for at least one hour, take a little out in a cup, or something that you
can use for testing. There are all kinds of paints you can use but I use the
Testors, or the Plastic-Kote Acrylic Enamel paints. They have to be Enamel,
although I have been told that people have used oil paints, but I have never
tried them. This process is just like Marbling in a way.

    Your paints have to be thinned out a bit. I use Mineral Spirit not paint
thinner because it gives it a little more time before it will dry. Depending on
the size of the bottle of the paint, I add about twenty to thirty drops of the
Mineral Spirit to the paint. I put a few BB’S in the bottle, so when I shake
it up, it helps mix the paint. Then I add paint to my water with a dropper, but
you can use quite a few items, I just like this way. Now then, If the paint
sinks you need to add a few more drops of the Mineral Spirit. If you notice that
your paint look as the have little bubbles in them, you need to add a little
more water because to much Borax will make the paint break up to much.

    This is just like Marbling, trial and error. Sometime you may notice that you
paint do not go to the outer edge of what ever it is you are using. Mind you
that in a small container it will do well, but in a large one it you might see
this happen. I ad my dark color to the center first, the on the outer edges I ad
my other colors. This brings the dark colors back in from the edge. When you try
it you will see what I am talking about. Then I use something like a plastic
knife and start to move the paints into a design. I have a link that I found on
YouTube that I will add to this.
Check it out. Remember, there are several ways that people do this. This is the
way I do it.

    One more thing, You need to use something to remove the excess paint on the
top of the water before you remove your item from the water or more paint will
stick to it. I use news paper.

Watch the video from the link below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cY4LXZqX-w

Take care and God Bless

Joe

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I DO!
> Remember someone spraying spray paint on water and marbling glass ornaments
> at a juried art show...
> Pure mud marbling.They sold their pieces as do your own for 3 dollars each.
> It actually made my shirts stick out as NICE so I sold well and paper cards
> too.
> The smell of that paint was awful! The results were not marbling as we know
> it.
> The irony is 6 weeks later at a show in Santa Fe on the plaza, there was a
> woman doing paper demos and you could paint a big sheet of paper for 3
> dollars! This was super work too the weather was perfect.
> Then I met the folks doing it Katherine Levine, Cov and Leach! I had read
> articles in ink and gall about these folks and was thrilled to meet them and
> see them working.
>  So please if your going to do some marbling in public use carrageenan and
> paper and not spray paint on water so people can see the real stuff!
> Anyone else have some demo stories to share?
> John Goode
> watermarktile.com
>
> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 12:17 AM, artsycole <akartisan@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, but have
> > not been having much luck - it globs together on the ornament. Looks okay on
> > the water, but not on the ornament.
> >
> > Anyone have any luck with this?
> >
> > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push vases,
> > lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, then it would be
> > marbled as you brought it up? Does anyone remember this or waht they used? I
> > wasn't into marbling in those days, so didn't pay attention - they used to
> > do it at fairs and shows.
> > Sue
> >
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> > <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hello R2D2
> > > I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > > I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > excellent.
> > > Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling supplier...then
> > its
> > > tried and true.
> > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > > I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink meld
> > into
> > > the mordant(alum).
> > > The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results try it.
> > > This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > > I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > > > water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top of the
> > > > water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I would
> > > > like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > > >
> > > > I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > > > having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have tried
> > > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > > >
> > > > I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > > > the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 1/4
> > > > cup to one quart
> > > >
> > > > Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > > > me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
and put in their thoughts as well.

I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water
thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your
problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think
it's the sealer.

What type of primer/sealers have you used?

Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are
marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can
never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be
a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
changing the integrity of the piece.

Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must
use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there
are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood,
as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,
you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work
better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers
successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?

Mary


On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> There are 6 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1a. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1b. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1c. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: John Goode
> 1d. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1e. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: John Goode
> 1f. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: artsycole
>
>
> Messages
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1a. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
>
> One more thing John.
>
> What type of paint/ink are you using?
>
> Thanks again
> Take care and God Bless
>
> Joe
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1b. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
>
> Hey John:
>
> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> Sorry but I don't understand this line..
>
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>
> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
> food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
>
> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
> and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
> water. You this this is to strong or to week.
>
> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>
>
> Joe
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1c. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
>
> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
> I have
> tried
> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>
> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> Mary are you out there?
> Hope this helps
> John
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey John:
>>
>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
>> Sorry
>> but I don't understand this line..
>>
>>
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>
>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
>> work
>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
>> grade,
>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>
>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
>> and see
>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
>> You this
>> this is to strong or to week.
>>
>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>
>>
>> Joe
>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
>> Goode
>> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello R2D2
>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>> excellent.
>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>>> supplier...then
>> its
>>> tried and true.
>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
>>> ink meld
>> into
>>> the mordant(alum).
>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>>> try it.
>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
>>>> Borax &
>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
>>>> of the
>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>>>> would
>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>>>> tried
>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>>
>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
>>>> mix 1/4
>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>
>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1d. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
>
> Hello again John,
>
> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
> talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
> does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
> suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I
> have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
> some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
> very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
> sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
>
> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
>
> Joe
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
>> I have
>> tried
>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>>
>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
>> Mary are you out there?
>> Hope this helps
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey John:
>>>
>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
>>> doing. Sorry
>>> but I don't understand this line..
>>>
>>>
>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
>>> work
>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
>>> food grade,
>>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>>
>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
>>> store and see
>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
>>> You this
>>> this is to strong or to week.
>>>
>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
>>> John Goode
>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello R2D2
>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>>> excellent.
>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>>>> supplier...then
>>> its
>>>> tried and true.
>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
>>>> ink meld
>>> into
>>>> the mordant(alum).
>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>>>> try it.
>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
>>>>> Borax &
>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
>>>>> top of the
>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>>>>> would
>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
>>>>> have tried
>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
>>>>> mix 1/4
>>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1e. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
>
> Joe
> I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
> The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
> shellac over
> it.
> Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
> John
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hello again John,
>>
>> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
>> talking
>> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
>> great job
>> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
>> me to join
>> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
>> good sand
>> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
>> help. The
>> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
>> them stick
>> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
>> all and
>> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
>>
>> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
>> Goode
>> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
>>> primer. I have
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>>>
>>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
>>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
>>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
>>> Mary are you out there?
>>> Hope this helps
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey John:
>>>>
>>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
>> Sorry
>>>> but I don't understand this line..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
>>>> which work
>>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
>> grade,
>>>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>>>
>>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
>>>> store and
>> see
>>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
>> this
>>>> this is to strong or to week.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
>>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
>> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
>>
>>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello R2D2
>>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>>>> excellent.
>>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>> supplier...then
>>>> its
>>>>> tried and true.
>>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
>>>>> correct?
>>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
>> meld
>>>> into
>>>>> the mordant(alum).
>>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>>>>> try
>> it.
>>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
>>>>>> Borax
>> &
>>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
>>>>>> top of
>> the
>>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>> would
>>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>> tried
>>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
>> 1/4
>>>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1f. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
>
> I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
> but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
> ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
>
> Anyone have any luck with this?
>
> In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
> vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
> then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone
> remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those
> days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
> Sue
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>

When I started marbling I'd rinse my fabric on the line,my wooden clothes pins
would get marbled. Now they might have had alum on them  but they where not
deliberately dipped. But it always  always peeked my interest. I sometimes would
drop my rakes into the bath ,which are wood,and they are marbled. Now I did go
out and buy some cheap wood boxes , I did alum them,just a dip then dry. No
sealer,no gesso. They marbled-ok ,but the fact they where "Balsa Wood" which is
porous I think a more dense wood works better with direct "dipping". Now Martha
Stewart had a segment on marbling" wood boxes and she Gessoed them first and
sealed them after.  I work with Methol Cel and Acrylic Paints. Good luck!
Gretchen www.vansantdesigns.etsy.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The link on youtube is what I am remembering from watching people in the past. 
Thanks  Wiping the excess paint off before you pull the object out is a good
tip.  That might have been causing some of the problems I was having, also the
paint might have been too thick.  I was using both Testor's paints and the
Krylon enamel in the little jars that you get from the hardware store, but I was
using it on plain water.  I'll try the borax - I use that in my laundry all the
time - works great for getting out sweat smells and stains.
Thanks
Sue
Sue


> Watch the video from the link below.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cY4LXZqX-w
>
> Take care and God Bless
>
> Joe
>
>

I have been marbling on my woodturnings for some time. I have seen Mary's
technique and use a similar method. I first dampen the wood to raise the grain
and then sand off the raised grain. I then typically treat with alum solution,
let it dry and then marble it with acrylic paint over methocel or carag. No
problems with the paint sticking. If I want a backround color, I raise the grain
and sand but then cover the surgace with acrylic paint. The same paint I will be
using to marble. After this dries I may sand a little to remove any raised grain
but then I apply the alum, let it dry and marble. What ever you are using for a
sealer must not be compatible with acrylic paint. If you must seal change the
sealer type. We have many people marbling turnings with no problems and Mary's
article is the basis for all the work being done. You may try a clear acrylic to
seal if you must.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
> marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
> and put in their thoughts as well.
>
> I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water
> thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
> would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your
> problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think
> it's the sealer.
>
> What type of primer/sealers have you used?
>
> Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
> to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are
> marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
> marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can
> never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
> a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
> circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be
> a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
> problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
> type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
> piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
> changing the integrity of the piece.
>
> Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must
> use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
> sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there
> are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood,
> as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
> marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,
> you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
> sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work
> better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers
> successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
>
> Mary
>
>
> On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > There are 6 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: John Goode
> > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: John Goode
> > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: artsycole
> >
> >
> > Messages
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
> >
> > One more thing John.
> >
> > What type of paint/ink are you using?
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Take care and God Bless
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Hey John:
> >
> > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
> >
> > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >
> > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
> > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
> >
> > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
> > and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
> > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
> >
> > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >
> >
> > Joe
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
> > I have
> > tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >
> > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > Mary are you out there?
> > Hope this helps
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey John:
> >>
> >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> >> Sorry
> >> but I don't understand this line..
> >>
> >>
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>
> >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> >> work
> >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> >> grade,
> >> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>
> >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
> >> and see
> >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
> >> You this
> >> this is to strong or to week.
> >>
> >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>
> >>
> >> Joe
> >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
> >> Goode
> >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello R2D2
> >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >> excellent.
> >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >>> supplier...then
> >> its
> >>> tried and true.
> >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> >>> ink meld
> >> into
> >>> the mordant(alum).
> >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >>> try it.
> >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> >>>> Borax &
> >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> >>>> of the
> >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >>>> would
> >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >>>> tried
> >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
> >>>> mix 1/4
> >>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Hello again John,
> >
> > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
> > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
> > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
> > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I
> > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
> > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
> > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
> > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
> > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> >
> > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
> >> I have
> >> tried
> >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >>
> >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> >> Mary are you out there?
> >> Hope this helps
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hey John:
> >>>
> >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
> >>> doing. Sorry
> >>> but I don't understand this line..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> >>> work
> >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
> >>> food grade,
> >>> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>>
> >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
> >>> store and see
> >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
> >>> You this
> >>> this is to strong or to week.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
> >>> John Goode
> >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello R2D2
> >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >>> excellent.
> >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >>>> supplier...then
> >>> its
> >>>> tried and true.
> >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> >>>> ink meld
> >>> into
> >>>> the mordant(alum).
> >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >>>> try it.
> >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> >>>>> Borax &
> >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
> >>>>> top of the
> >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
> >>>>> have tried
> >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
> >>>>> trouble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
> >>>>> mix 1/4
> >>>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Joe
> > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
> > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
> > shellac over
> > it.
> > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello again John,
> >>
> >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
> >> talking
> >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
> >> great job
> >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
> >> me to join
> >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
> >> good sand
> >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
> >> help. The
> >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
> >> them stick
> >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
> >> all and
> >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> >>
> >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> >>
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
> >> Goode
> >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
> >>> primer. I have
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >>>
> >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> >>> Mary are you out there?
> >>> Hope this helps
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey John:
> >>>>
> >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> >> Sorry
> >>>> but I don't understand this line..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
> >>>> which work
> >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> >> grade,
> >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>>>
> >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
> >>>> store and
> >> see
> >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
> >> this
> >>>> this is to strong or to week.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe
> >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
> >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
> >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> >>
> >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello R2D2
> >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >>>> excellent.
> >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >> supplier...then
> >>>> its
> >>>>> tried and true.
> >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
> >>>>> correct?
> >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> >> meld
> >>>> into
> >>>>> the mordant(alum).
> >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >>>>> try
> >> it.
> >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> >>>>>> Borax
> >> &
> >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
> >>>>>> top of
> >> the
> >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >> would
> >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >> tried
> >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
> >>>>>> trouble.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
> >>>>>> get
> >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> >> 1/4
> >>>>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
> >
> > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
> > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
> > ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
> >
> > Anyone have any luck with this?
> >
> > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
> > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
> > then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone
> > remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those
> > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
> > Sue
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
>

Thanks for the info. I think I got this right. You are saying after I get my
object ready for painting,  I can apply the alum to my object, let it dry, then 
I can  put a base coat on it,whatever color I choose as lone as it’s acrylic
paint, Let it dry and then I can sand it down lightly just to remove the grain
if needed, then apply the Alum once again, let it dry, and then dip it into my
size with my colors. So what you are saying is that the paint will stick to the
base coat after I apply the Alum again and let it dry.

Am I correct on this?

  The sealer I have been using it a white acrylic enamel. Mary told me that this
could very well be my problem also. She is so helpful, and what a great person
she has been to take her time and help me. I have found that a lot of people on
this sight have been good to me, and helpful also. Just wish more people were as
kind as the people on here.

Again, thanks for the info.

  Take care and God Bless

Joe

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "G" <kulibert@...> wrote:
>
> I have been marbling on my woodturnings for some time. I have seen Mary's
technique and use a similar method. I first dampen the wood to raise the grain
and then sand off the raised grain. I then typically treat with alum solution,
let it dry and then marble it with acrylic paint over methocel or carag. No
problems with the paint sticking. If I want a backround color, I raise the grain
and sand but then cover the surgace with acrylic paint. The same paint I will be
using to marble. After this dries I may sand a little to remove any raised grain
but then I apply the alum, let it dry and marble. What ever you are using for a
sealer must not be compatible with acrylic paint. If you must seal change the
sealer type. We have many people marbling turnings with no problems and Mary's
article is the basis for all the work being done. You may try a clear acrylic to
seal if you must.
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re.
> > marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn
> > and put in their thoughts as well.
> >
> > I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water
> > thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I
> > would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your
> > problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think
> > it's the sealer.
> >
> > What type of primer/sealers have you used?
> >
> > Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior
> > to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are
> > marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the
> > marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can
> > never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being
> > a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all
> > circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be
> > a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a
> > problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the
> > type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the
> > piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or
> > changing the integrity of the piece.
> >
> > Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must
> > use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a
> > sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there
> > are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood,
> > as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I
> > marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,
> > you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the
> > sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work
> > better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers
> > successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
> >
> > Mary
> >
> >
> > On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > > There are 6 messages in this issue.
> > >
> > > Topics in this digest:
> > >
> > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: r2d21069
> > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: r2d21069
> > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: John Goode
> > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: r2d21069
> > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: John Goode
> > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     From: artsycole
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
> > >
> > > One more thing John.
> > >
> > > What type of paint/ink are you using?
> > >
> > > Thanks again
> > > Take care and God Bless
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello R2D2
> > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >> excellent.
> > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >> supplier...then its
> > >> tried and true.
> > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> > >> meld into
> > >> the mordant(alum).
> > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >> try it.
> > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> > >>> of the
> > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >>> would
> > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > >>> tried
> > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> > >>> 1/4
> > >>> cup to one quart
> > >>>
> > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
> > >
> > > Hey John:
> > >
> > > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> > > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
> > >
> > > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >
> > > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> > > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
> > > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
> > >
> > > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
> > > and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on
> > > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
> > >
> > > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> > >
> > >
> > > Joe
> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello R2D2
> > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >> excellent.
> > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >> supplier...then its
> > >> tried and true.
> > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> > >> meld into
> > >> the mordant(alum).
> > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >> try it.
> > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> > >>> of the
> > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >>> would
> > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > >>> tried
> > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> > >>> 1/4
> > >>> cup to one quart
> > >>>
> > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@ jbg78734
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
> > >
> > > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
> > > I have
> > > tried
> > > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> > >
> > > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > > Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > > Mary are you out there?
> > > Hope this helps
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hey John:
> > >>
> > >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> > >> Sorry
> > >> but I don't understand this line..
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> > >> work
> > >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> > >> grade,
> > >> which I don't know if this will work.
> > >>
> > >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store
> > >> and see
> > >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
> > >> You this
> > >> this is to strong or to week.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Joe
> > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
> > >> Goode
> > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello R2D2
> > >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >> excellent.
> > >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >>> supplier...then
> > >> its
> > >>> tried and true.
> > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> > >>> ink meld
> > >> into
> > >>> the mordant(alum).
> > >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >>> try it.
> > >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> > >>>> Borax &
> > >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> > >>>> of the
> > >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >>>> would
> > >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > >>>> tried
> > >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
> > >>>> mix 1/4
> > >>>> cup to one quart
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@ r2d21069
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
> > >
> > > Hello again John,
> > >
> > > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
> > > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She
> > > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that
> > > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I
> > > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered
> > > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top
> > > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the
> > > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and
> > > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> > >
> > > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer.
> > >> I have
> > >> tried
> > >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> > >>
> > >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > >> Mary are you out there?
> > >> Hope this helps
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Hey John:
> > >>>
> > >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd
> > >>> doing. Sorry
> > >>> but I don't understand this line..
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >>>
> > >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which
> > >>> work
> > >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a
> > >>> food grade,
> > >>> which I don't know if this will work.
> > >>>
> > >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
> > >>> store and see
> > >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water.
> > >>> You this
> > >>> this is to strong or to week.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> Joe
> > >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > >>> John Goode
> > >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hello R2D2
> > >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >>> excellent.
> > >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >>>> supplier...then
> > >>> its
> > >>>> tried and true.
> > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> > >>>> ink meld
> > >>> into
> > >>>> the mordant(alum).
> > >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >>>> try it.
> > >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >>>> John
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> > >>>>> Borax &
> > >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
> > >>>>> top of the
> > >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >>>>> would
> > >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I
> > >>>>> have tried
> > >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
> > >>>>> trouble.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I
> > >>>>> mix 1/4
> > >>>>> cup to one quart
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@ jbg78734
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
> > >
> > > Joe
> > > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
> > > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a
> > > shellac over
> > > it.
> > > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Hello again John,
> > >>
> > >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been
> > >> talking
> > >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a
> > >> great job
> > >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for
> > >> me to join
> > >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a
> > >> good sand
> > >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will
> > >> help. The
> > >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making
> > >> them stick
> > >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not
> > >> all and
> > >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Joe
> > >>
> > >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John
> > >> Goode
> > >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the
> > >>> primer. I have
> > >>> tried
> > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> > >>>
> > >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > >>> Mary are you out there?
> > >>> Hope this helps
> > >>> John
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hey John:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> > >> Sorry
> > >>>> but I don't understand this line..
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose
> > >>>> which work
> > >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> > >> grade,
> > >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art
> > >>>> store and
> > >> see
> > >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
> > >> this
> > >>>> this is to strong or to week.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Joe
> > >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
> > >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
> > >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> > >>
> > >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Hello R2D2
> > >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >>>> excellent.
> > >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >> supplier...then
> > >>>> its
> > >>>>> tried and true.
> > >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling
> > >>>>> correct?
> > >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> > >> meld
> > >>>> into
> > >>>>> the mordant(alum).
> > >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >>>>> try
> > >> it.
> > >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >>>>> John
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing
> > >>>>>> Borax
> > >> &
> > >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on
> > >>>>>> top of
> > >> the
> > >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >> would
> > >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > >> tried
> > >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some
> > >>>>>> trouble.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to
> > >>>>>> get
> > >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> > >> 1/4
> > >>>>>> cup to one quart
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > > ______________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> > >     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@ artsycole
> > >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
> > >
> > > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel,
> > > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the
> > > ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
> > >
> > > Anyone have any luck with this?
> > >
> > > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push
> > > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top,
> > > then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone
> > > remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those
> > > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
> > > Sue
> > >
> > > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello R2D2
> > >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> > >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> > >> excellent.
> > >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> > >> supplier...then its
> > >> tried and true.
> > >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> > >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> > >> meld into
> > >> the mordant(alum).
> > >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results
> > >> try it.
> > >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> > >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> > >> John
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> > >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top
> > >>> of the
> > >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> > >>> would
> > >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> > >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> > >>> tried
> > >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> > >>>
> > >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> > >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> > >>> 1/4
> > >>> cup to one quart
> > >>>
> > >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> > >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Messages in this topic (8)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > --
> > >
> >
>

Dear Joe,
Here are some tips I have learned by working with some woodturners.  
Before I list tips here is a summary of my set up of choice.  Alum is applied
directly to the wood without a sealer.  Golden Acrylics and methyl cellulose
are what I have used most, though suminagashi on wood is beautiful.  
Things to consider:a) variations in density of wood grain, hard and soft rings
can alter the printb) resin content may act as a resist creating voids or cause
small bubbles in the pattern.  ex. exotic hardwoods may not work well due to
resin contentc) the surface should be sanded smooth, but not so finely sanded
that the surface is "burnished" d) the wood should not be lacquered before
marblinge) maple, ash and walnut work wellf) if warping may be a problem it
helps to dry the piece slowly.  one way is to place the piece in a plastic bag
over night, remove the piece, turn the bag inside out (condensation now on
outside), place piece back in bag overnight and repeat as long as necessary.
 g) finishes that work  are varnish, deft, water-bourne varnish, polyurethane
and krylonf) after the finish is applied the piece can be sanded to remove the
raised grain.  a product that works well is "WetorDry Tri-M-Ite Polishing
Paper", a cloth backed polishing
  paper 400 - 8000 grit.  no sanding lines are detectable by grit 1200.
 available through Rio Grande, 1-800-545-6566
hope some of this is useful,Lauraindigostonestudio.com

--- On Mon, 5/31/10, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:

From: Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...>
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 1822
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 9:51 AM

Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re. 
marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn 
and put in their thoughts as well.

I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water 
thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I 
would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your 
problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think 
it's the sealer.

What type of primer/sealers have you used?

Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior 
to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are 
marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the 
marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can 
never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being 
a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all 
circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be 
a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a 
problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the 
type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the 
piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or 
changing the integrity of the piece.

Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must 
use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a 
sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there 
are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood, 
as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I 
marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,   
you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the 
sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work 
better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers 
successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?

Mary


On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:

> There are 6 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1a. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1b. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1c. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: John Goode
> 1d. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: r2d21069
> 1e. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: John Goode
> 1f. Re: Marbling wood
>     From: artsycole
>
>
> Messages
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1a. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
>
> One more thing John.
>
> What type of paint/ink are you using?
>
> Thanks again
> Take care and God Bless
>
> Joe
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1b. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
>
> Hey John:
>
> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
> Sorry but I don't understand this line..
>
> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>
> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
> work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
> food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
>
> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
> and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on 
> water. You this this is to strong or to week.
>
> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>
>
> Joe
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1c. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
>
> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
> I have
> tried
> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>
> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> Mary are you out there?
> Hope this helps
> John
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey John:
>>
>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
>> Sorry
>> but I don't understand this line..
>>
>>
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>
>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
>> work
>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food 
>> grade,
>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>
>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
>> and see
>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
>> You this
>> this is to strong or to week.
>>
>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>
>>
>> Joe
>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
>> Goode
>> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello R2D2
>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>> excellent.
>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
>>> supplier...then
>> its
>>> tried and true.
>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
>>> ink meld
>> into
>>> the mordant(alum).
>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>>> try it.
>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
>>>> Borax &
>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
>>>> of the
>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
>>>> would
>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>
>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
>>>> tried
>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>>
>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
>>>> mix 1/4
>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>
>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1d. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
>
> Hello again John,
>
> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
> talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She 
> does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that 
> suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I 
> have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered 
> some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top 
> very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the 
> sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and 
> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
>
> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
>
> Joe
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
>> I have
>> tried
>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>>
>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
>> Mary are you out there?
>> Hope this helps
>> John
>>
>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hey John:
>>>
>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd 
>>> doing. Sorry
>>> but I don't understand this line..
>>>
>>>
>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>
>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
>>> work
>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
>>> food grade,
>>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>>
>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
>>> store and see
>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
>>> You this
>>> this is to strong or to week.
>>>
>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>>
>>>
>>> Joe
>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, 
>>> John Goode
>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello R2D2
>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>>> excellent.
>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
>>>> supplier...then
>>> its
>>>> tried and true.
>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
>>>> ink meld
>>> into
>>>> the mordant(alum).
>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>>>> try it.
>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
>>>>> Borax &
>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
>>>>> top of the
>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
>>>>> would
>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I 
>>>>> have tried
>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
>>>>> mix 1/4
>>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>>
>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1e. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
>
> Joe
> I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
> The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a 
> shellac over
> it.
> Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
> John
>
> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hello again John,
>>
>> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
>> talking
>> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a 
>> great job
>> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for 
>> me to join
>> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a 
>> good sand
>> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will 
>> help. The
>> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making 
>> them stick
>> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not 
>> all and
>> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
>>
>> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
>>
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
>> Goode
>> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the 
>>> primer. I have
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
>>>
>>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
>>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
>>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
>>> Mary are you out there?
>>> Hope this helps
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hey John:
>>>>
>>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
>> Sorry
>>>> but I don't understand this line..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose 
>>>> which work
>>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
>> grade,
>>>> which I don't know if this will work.
>>>>
>>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
>>>> store and
>> see
>>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
>> this
>>>> this is to strong or to week.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
>>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
>> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
>>
>>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hello R2D2
>>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
>>>> excellent.
>>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
>> supplier...then
>>>> its
>>>>> tried and true.
>>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling 
>>>>> correct?
>>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
>> meld
>>>> into
>>>>> the mordant(alum).
>>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>>>>> try
>> it.
>>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
>>>>>> Borax
>> &
>>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
>>>>>> top of
>> the
>>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
>> would
>>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
>> tried
>>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
>>>>>> trouble.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to 
>>>>>> get
>>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
>> 1/4
>>>>>> cup to one quart
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
> ______________________________________________________________________
> __
> 1f. Re: Marbling wood
>     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
>     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
>
> I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, 
> but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the 
> ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
>
> Anyone have any luck with this?
>
> In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push 
> vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, 
> then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone 
> remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those 
> days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
> Sue
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hello R2D2
>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
>> excellent.
>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
>> supplier...then its
>> tried and true.
>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
>> meld into
>> the mordant(alum).
>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
>> try it.
>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
>> John
>>
>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
>>> of the
>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
>>> would
>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
>>>
>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
>>> tried
>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
>>>
>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
>>> 1/4
>>> cup to one quart
>>>
>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
>>>
>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Messages in this topic (8)
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks so much.

Mary was on the ball. She told me to sign up on some of these sights. Everyone
is so helpful and they take pride in what they do.
    One day I will get this right because of all the help from Mary and everyone
else on here.

Thanks you again, and many thanks to everyone.

Take care and God Bless.

Joe

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Laura Sims <indigostone2@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Joe,
> Here are some tips I have learned by working with some woodturners.  
> Before I list tips here is a summary of my set up of choice.  Alum is applied
directly to the wood without a sealer.  Golden Acrylics and methyl cellulose
are what I have used most, though suminagashi on wood is beautiful.  
> Things to consider:a) variations in density of wood grain, hard and soft rings
can alter the printb) resin content may act as a resist creating voids or cause
small bubbles in the pattern.  ex. exotic hardwoods may not work well due to
resin contentc) the surface should be sanded smooth, but not so finely sanded
that the surface is "burnished" d) the wood should not be lacquered before
marblinge) maple, ash and walnut work wellf) if warping may be a problem it
helps to dry the piece slowly.  one way is to place the piece in a plastic bag
over night, remove the piece, turn the bag inside out (condensation now on
outside), place piece back in bag overnight and repeat as long as necessary.
 g) finishes that work  are varnish, deft, water-bourne varnish, polyurethane
and krylonf) after the finish is applied the piece can be sanded to remove the
raised grain.  a product that works well is "WetorDry Tri-M-Ite Polishing
Paper", a cloth backed polishing
>  paper 400 - 8000 grit.  no sanding lines are detectable by grit 1200.
 available through Rio Grande, 1-800-545-6566
> hope some of this is useful,Lauraindigostonestudio.com
>
> --- On Mon, 5/31/10, Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...> wrote:
>
> From: Del & Mary Stubbs <mdstubbs@...>
> Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 1822
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 31, 2010, 9:51 AM
>
> Hi Joe - Mary here...yes, we have been corresponding a bit re. 
> marbling on wood, and thought I would reply here so others may learn 
> and put in their thoughts as well.
>
> I still think the primer/sealer is your problem.  The borax and water 
> thing, I have never done, don't know anything about that....but I 
> would stick with methyl cellulose or carageenan.  I don't think your 
> problem lies in either of those (methyl or carag.).  I still think 
> it's the sealer.
>
> What type of primer/sealers have you used?
>
> Also- regarding your feeling that the wood needs to be sealed prior 
> to aluming and marbling....I do question this.  If what you are 
> marbling is a solid piece of wood...it usually can withstand the 
> marbling process without problems.  Most folks feel that wood can 
> never get wet and must be protected under all circumstances ...being 
> a woodworker for over 30 years...I find this doesn't hold true in all 
> circumstances.  If there are water based laminations - that would be 
> a problem.  If any warping at all is a concern, that would also be a 
> problem...but depending on how the wood was cut, it's thickness, the 
> type of wood, if the piece has already been dried properly - the 
> piece may be able to withstand getting wet without a problem, or 
> changing the integrity of the piece.
>
> Also -  There is a difference between primer and sealer.  If you must 
> use a primer or sealer prior to aluming, I would lean toward using a 
> sealer and not a primer.  And one coat.  and it could be that there 
> are some brands that work better than others.  I never seal the wood, 
> as it's just one more thing to cause problems...but the pieces I 
> marble, it doesn't matter if they get wet.  If you do use a sealer,   
> you might want to try very lightly sanding it after it is dry, if the 
> sealer raises the grain.  But then again - some sealers may work 
> better than others.  I know Marina has used sealers 
> successfully....are you there, Marina?....anyone know about that?
>
> Mary
>
>
> On May302010, at 5:21 AM, Marbling@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> > There are 6 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: John Goode
> > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: r2d21069
> > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: John Goode
> > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> >     From: artsycole
> >
> >
> > Messages
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1a. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:48 am ((PDT))
> >
> > One more thing John.
> >
> > What type of paint/ink are you using?
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Take care and God Bless
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1b. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 8:49 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Hey John:
> >
> > My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
> > Sorry but I don't understand this line..
> >
> > Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >
> > Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
> > work well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
> > food grade, which I don't know if this will work.
> >
> > I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
> > and see what happens.  I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on 
> > water. You this this is to strong or to week.
> >
> > Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >
> >
> > Joe
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1c. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 9:54 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
> > I have
> > tried
> > different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >
> > Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> > I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> > Mary on this list is great with wood.
> > Mary are you out there?
> > Hope this helps
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hey John:
> >>
> >> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing. 
> >> Sorry
> >> but I don't understand this line..
> >>
> >>
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>
> >> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
> >> work
> >> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food 
> >> grade,
> >> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>
> >> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art store 
> >> and see
> >> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
> >> You this
> >> this is to strong or to week.
> >>
> >> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>
> >>
> >> Joe
> >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
> >> Goode
> >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hello R2D2
> >>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >> excellent.
> >>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
> >>> supplier...then
> >> its
> >>> tried and true.
> >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> >>> ink meld
> >> into
> >>> the mordant(alum).
> >>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >>> try it.
> >>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
> >>>> Borax &
> >>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
> >>>> of the
> >>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
> >>>> would
> >>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
> >>>> tried
> >>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
> >>>> mix 1/4
> >>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>
> >>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1d. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "r2d21069" r2d21069@... r2d21069
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:26 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Hello again John,
> >
> > I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
> > talking to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She 
> > does a great job and has been a big help to me. She is the one that 
> > suggested for me to join groups like this and read about it.  I 
> > have tried sanding it with a good sand paper also. I have ordered 
> > some krylon gesso to see if this will help. The paints stay on top 
> > very well, but I'm having a hard time making them stick to the 
> > sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not all and 
> > when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> >
> > Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. 
> >> I have
> >> tried
> >> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >>
> >> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> >> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> >> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> >> Mary are you out there?
> >> Hope this helps
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hey John:
> >>>
> >>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd 
> >>> doing. Sorry
> >>> but I don't understand this line..
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose which 
> >>> work
> >>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a 
> >>> food grade,
> >>> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>>
> >>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
> >>> store and see
> >>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. 
> >>> You this
> >>> this is to strong or to week.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Joe
> >>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, 
> >>> John Goode
> >>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hello R2D2
> >>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >>> excellent.
> >>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
> >>>> supplier...then
> >>> its
> >>>> tried and true.
> >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/
> >>>> ink meld
> >>> into
> >>>> the mordant(alum).
> >>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >>>> try it.
> >>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
> >>>>> Borax &
> >>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
> >>>>> top of the
> >>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
> >>>>> would
> >>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I 
> >>>>> have tried
> >>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
> >>>>> trouble.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I 
> >>>>> mix 1/4
> >>>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1e. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "John Goode" watermarktile@... jbg78734
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:39 am ((PDT))
> >
> > Joe
> > I would think the sealer would repel the paints.
> > The wood I marbled needed to absorb the paint then sprayed a 
> > shellac over
> > it.
> > Hopefully others will chime in but its a holiday and many are busy.
> > John
> >
> > On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello again John,
> >>
> >> I use a sealer, but some people call it a primer. I also have been 
> >> talking
> >> to Mary about this because of her work on her turnings. She does a 
> >> great job
> >> and has been a big help to me. She is the one that suggested for 
> >> me to join
> >> groups like this and read about it. I have tried sanding it with a 
> >> good sand
> >> paper also. I have ordered some krylon gesso to see if this will 
> >> help. The
> >> paints stay on top very well, but I'm having a hard time making 
> >> them stick
> >> to the sealer..Don't get me wrong because they do stick, but not 
> >> all and
> >> when I rinse it off, the paints seem to wash off, not all but some.
> >>
> >> Thanks again, take care and God Bless
> >>
> >>
> >> Joe
> >>
> >> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John 
> >> Goode
> >> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Joe says"having a hard time getting the paint stick to the 
> >>> primer. I have
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble."
> >>>
> >>> Joe do you seal or prime the wood first? and Why if so?
> >>> I used acrylic paints for wood and fiber.
> >>> Mary on this list is great with wood.
> >>> Mary are you out there?
> >>> Hope this helps
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, May 29, 2010 at 10:43 AM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hey John:
> >>>>
> >>>> My items have to be primed first because of the items I amd doing.
> >> Sorry
> >>>> but I don't understand this line..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyway, I have tried new Alum and also the Methyl cellulose 
> >>>> which work
> >>>> well. Never tried the carrageenan but I have some, but it's a food
> >> grade,
> >>>> which I don't know if this will work.
> >>>>
> >>>> I shall get some more Alum and some carrageenan form the art 
> >>>> store and
> >> see
> >>>> what happens. I am mixing the alum 1/4 cup to 1 quart on water. You
> >> this
> >>>> this is to strong or to week.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanks for everything my friend. You take care and God Bless.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Joe
> >>>> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com <Marbling%
> >>>> 40yahoogroups.com><Marbling%
> >> 40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> >>
> >>>> <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hello R2D2
> >>>>> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >>>>> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled
> >>>> excellent.
> >>>>> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling
> >> supplier...then
> >>>> its
> >>>>> tried and true.
> >>>>> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling 
> >>>>> correct?
> >>>>> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink
> >> meld
> >>>> into
> >>>>> the mordant(alum).
> >>>>> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >>>>> try
> >> it.
> >>>>> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >>>>> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing 
> >>>>>> Borax
> >> &
> >>>>>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on 
> >>>>>> top of
> >> the
> >>>>>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I
> >> would
> >>>>>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>>>>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have
> >> tried
> >>>>>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some 
> >>>>>> trouble.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to 
> >>>>>> get
> >>>>>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix
> >> 1/4
> >>>>>> cup to one quart
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>>>>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> > ______________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > 1f. Re: Marbling wood
> >     Posted by: "artsycole" akartisan@... artsycole
> >     Date: Sat May 29, 2010 10:21 pm ((PDT))
> >
> > I have also been trying to marble Christmas ornaments with enamel, 
> > but have not been having much luck - it globs together on the 
> > ornament.  Looks okay on the water, but not on the ornament.
> >
> > Anyone have any luck with this?
> >
> > In the 70's there was a fad for awhile where people would push 
> > vases, lamps, etc, down into a bucket with paint floating on top, 
> > then it would be marbled as you brought it up?  Does anyone 
> > remember this or waht they used?  I wasn't into marbling in those 
> > days, so didn't pay attention - they used to do it at fairs and shows.
> > Sue
> >
> > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, John Goode <watermarktile@> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello R2D2
> >> I have marbled a series of driftwood pieces.
> >> I soaked the wood in alum solution and dried well then it marbled 
> >> excellent.
> >> Your Alum may be the problem? Try some from a marbling 
> >> supplier...then its
> >> tried and true.
> >> Priming and sealing if need be are done after the marbling correct?
> >> I use carrageenan for the size and that always makes the paint/ink 
> >> meld into
> >> the mordant(alum).
> >> The carrageenan may seem expensive but if you want real results 
> >> try it.
> >> This is my guess with the experience I have.
> >> I hope this helps and let us know how it comes out.
> >> John
> >>
> >> On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 7:48 PM, r2d21069 <r2d21069@> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I have been doing Swirl paint ( Marbling ) on wood by mixing Borax &
> >>> water together. This makes the Acrylic Enamel paint float on top 
> >>> of the
> >>> water. First I have to prime the wood, then get my pattern as I 
> >>> would
> >>> like it to be, then dip it into my solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have tried this with Acrylic paint ( water based ) but I’m
> >>> having a hard time getting the paint stick to the primer. I have 
> >>> tried
> >>> different primers and sealers, but I’m still having some trouble.
> >>>
> >>> I have applied the Alum every time and I still can’t seem to get
> >>> the paints to stick. They seem to run off of fade together. I mix 
> >>> 1/4
> >>> cup to one quart
> >>>
> >>> Any help on this would be very appreciated because it’s driving
> >>> me nuts. Remember, the wood has to have a sealer or primes on it.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to everyone who reads this. Take care and God Bless
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Messages in this topic (8)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear all marbler,
I am doing this art in Turkey and in these days I wanna try some new kind
carragenans but i do not know who sells in other countries.. Is there anyone in
this group who sells good quality carragenan? Please tell me the price and could
you send it to Turkey?
have a goods marblings to all of marblers...

Kurtuluþ

Hopefully, this will not irritate too many people, but when replying to this
group, PLEASE erase the former message(s) or just copy and paste the gist of
what you are replying to.  When you hit the "reply" button, it repeats all the
messages related to that message over and over.  I get them in digest mode and I
have to scan through the whole thing to see if there is anything new in there. 
I believe this problem shows up in the regular message mode also.

Also, the repeated messages take up storage space in Yahoo groups and our group
is only allowed a certain amount and it also makes it harder to search through
the archived messages because of all the repeats.

On some of the other groups, they send out notices periodically, that remind
people of this by saying "Please be neat, delete".

Thanks for listening and sorry if I offended anyone.
Sue

see messages 5715, 16, 17, and 18 for an example of what I am talking about. 
It's possible people don't realize that this is happening also.  Okay, I won't
say anything more on this.
thanks for listening,
Sue

Got ya. I hope this works. Never even knew that.

Take care

You can see my prices on:

http://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0ARMuYic5wv6FZGNoc3BqajNfNTRjZG05NXFnYw&hl=es

        *Antonio Vélez Celemín*

C/ Tilo, 2

Sevilla la Nueva – 28609 – Madrid

Spain


  Phone:

0034 918 129 301

0034 627 951 783 (cellular)

Mail: avcele@...



My page on marbling. <http://marblinginspain.blogspot.com>

Antonio Vélez Celemín marbled
papers.<http://antoniovelezcelemineningles.blogspot.com>

















































2010/6/3 kurtulusnuri <kurtulusnuri@...>

>
>
> Dear all marbler,
> I am doing this art in Turkey and in these days I wanna try some new kind
> carragenans but i do not know who sells in other countries.. Is there anyone
> in this group who sells good quality carragenan? Please tell me the price
> and could you send it to Turkey?
> have a goods marblings to all of marblers...
>
> Kurtuluþ
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Totally agree with you.




________________________________
From: artsycole <akartisan@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, June 3, 2010 1:11:35 AM
Subject: [Marbling] message manners

 

Hopefully, this will not irritate too many people, but when replying to this
group, PLEASE erase the former message(s) or just copy and paste the gist of
what you are replying to. When you hit the "reply" button, it repeats all the
messages related to that message over and over. I get them in digest mode and I
have to scan through the whole thing to see if there is anything new in there. I
believe this problem shows up in the regular message mode also.

Also, the repeated messages take up storage space in Yahoo groups and our group
is only allowed a certain amount and it also makes it harder to search through
the archived messages because of all the repeats.

On some of the other groups, they send out notices periodically, that remind
people of this by saying "Please be neat, delete".

Thanks for listening and sorry if I offended anyone.
Sue







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-original message-
Subject: [Marbling] Paper Garden exhibition of  traditional Turkish papercut
arts
From: "oguzhan t" <uygur13@...>
Date: 24/05/2010 3:21 am

organized  by IRCICA library  www.ircica.org

artwork of www.safiyegulen.com     will be exhibited 21 may 2 june

Great American paper artist,prof.at Corcoran College of Art

www.lynnsures.com will exhibit her  pulppainting artwork

26 may 7 june at www.isikun.edu.tr
hold workshops at the  university and
Istanbul Museum of Graphic Arts  www.imoga.org

In Turkish fine arts history it is the first time  that
contemporary pulp painting technique will be taught and
artwork exhibited.

In America many marbling artist friends  make  their own paper,
so the Turkish art  lovers and  book artists
are strongly encouraged to attend these exhibitions and workshops.

Esteemed Ms Lynn Sures is being very generous with her time and
in sharing her  lifelong accumulated knowledge in contemporary American
handpaper making techniques.

She also teaches at Fabriano Paper in Italy,
one can take week long courses at 3000$ a person,
strike  the iron while it is  hot  here in Istanbul.

cordially,

ebru-pa news operations

oz

Ayan Ebru in Istanbul had good carrageenan.

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "kurtulusnuri" <kurtulusnuri@...> wrote:
>
> Dear all marbler,
> I am doing this art in Turkey and in these days I wanna try some new kind
carragenans but i do not know who sells in other countries.. Is there anyone in
this group who sells good quality carragenan? Please tell me the price and could
you send it to Turkey?
> have a goods marblings to all of marblers...
>
> Kurtuluþ
>

I have wonderfull carrageenan.I bought from USA. this is the number one.
most of artist use this carrageenan for ex. Yılmaz ENES. This carrageenan
price is 199 usa $ per kilo.

2010/6/3 kurtulusnuri <kurtulusnuri@...>

>
>
> Dear all marbler,
> I am doing this art in Turkey and in these days I wanna try some new kind
> carragenans but i do not know who sells in other countries.. Is there anyone
> in this group who sells good quality carragenan? Please tell me the price
> and could you send it to Turkey?
> have a goods marblings to all of marblers...
>
> Kurtuluþ
>
>
>



--
   Hüseyin KAYA


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Kurtulus,

I am using this good quality carrageenan that I found here in the
Netherlands, and I sell it for  8 euros per 100 grams retail price, and 55
euros per/kg wholesale price (minimum 5kg). I am right now sending it to
some friends and marbling artists in Turkey and other European countries.

Mehmet Refii Kileci Ph.D.

Roumi Kunst Instituut
Ebru Huis Rotterdam
Alkmaardermeer  41
  3068KL  Rotterdam
www.kileci.net
www.roumi.nl
refii@...
mobil 031(0)618884955
0031 10-2094038

08 Haziran 2010 11:51 tarihinde Hüseyin KAYA <huseyinkaya34@...>yazdı:

>
>
> I have wonderfull carrageenan.I bought from USA. this is the number one.
> most of artist use this carrageenan for ex. Yılmaz ENES. This carrageenan
> price is 199 usa $ per kilo.
>
> 2010/6/3 kurtulusnuri <kurtulusnuri@... <kurtulusnuri%40yahoo.com>>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Dear all marbler,
> > I am doing this art in Turkey and in these days I wanna try some new kind
> > carragenans but i do not know who sells in other countries.. Is there
> anyone
> > in this group who sells good quality carragenan? Please tell me the price
> > and could you send it to Turkey?
> > have a goods marblings to all of marblers...
> >
> > Kurtuluþ
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Hüseyin KAYA
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--


Mehmet Refii Kileci Ph.D.

Roumi Kunst Instituut
Ebru Huis Rotterdam
Alkmaardermeer  41
3068KL  Rotterdam
www.kileci.net
www.roumi.nl
refii@...
mobil 031(0)618884955
0031 10-2094038


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Diane Mauer sells carragenan at her web site. I'm sure the quality is
excellent, and the price is comparable to Dharma Trading so it is clearly a
reasonable price for the US. You need to contact her about international
shipping charges, but as she is an individual you can probably avoid the
import restrictions that keep Dharma Trading from shipping to Turkey.

See: http://www.dianemaurer.com/supplies.html  and
http://www.dharmatrading.com/service/international-orders.html

--
Best Regards,

Sally

----------------------------------------------------
Sally.Canzoneri@...
202-625-2124 (work-home)
202-288-8074 (cell)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Many thanks to all e-mails. I was so busy last few days i could just find time
to check the messages. I will answer all e-mails in a short time.
I am so sorry about the late reply :(

best regards

  Sevgiler
Kurtulus Nuri OZ




________________________________
From: Sally Canzoneri <Sally.canzoneri@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, June 8, 2010 6:14:46 PM
Subject: [Marbling] carragenan


Diane Mauer sells carragenan at her web site. I'm sure the quality is
excellent, and the price is comparable to Dharma Trading so it is clearly a
reasonable price for the US. You need to contact her about international
shipping charges, but as she is an individual you can probably avoid the
import restrictions that keep Dharma Trading from shipping to Turkey.

See: http://www.dianemaurer.com/supplies.html and
http://www.dharmatrading.com/service/international-orders.html

--
Best Regards,

Sally

----------------------------------------------------
Sally.Canzoneri@...
202-625-2124 (work-home)
202-288-8074 (cell)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]