It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not just
acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters. there is
no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently. Believing
there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one cake
recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give
brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the
paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale
color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get
it floating and get brighter color.
Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down Photo Flo
and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I don't know
your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc., but a 78
degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could cause
sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4 cup
water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or gouache.
You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is, how thin
the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops from a
little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye dropper.
So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup of
paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days it
all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface tension.
You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate it. It
never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and pale. For
that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that comes from
a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because it rules
out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use with
hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled, in
fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though,
especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out
water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy and
haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without going
overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh, so I
make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I
marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing
to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference
I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the
same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a
little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a
bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum
too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if
needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about
hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It was always streamlined and simple
yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets overly complicated where not
necessary and causes people frustration. No problems usually marbling this way
for 31 years...expect those mysterious days where things just don't feel like
working for some odd reason you never find out. Then you do the same exact
things the next day and all is fine. My bigger issues revolve around the
shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers which neutralizes the
alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play. It is a serious threat
to marbling, and something you have little control over. Your other materials
you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start making paper you are at
the mercy of the paper mills.
You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can. Everyone
will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have worked
for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best. There
are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value to
take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they can
often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from as
many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: John Goode<mailto:watermarktile@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
Mary
Ox gall usually just needs a drop or two at most,
78 degrees may be a bit to hot try a bit cooler if you can.
I am not sure about Borax I have heard about people using it with success.
Try thinning with alcohol on the blues no ox gall with the alcohol.
try some bottled water to thin and just a drop of ox then maybe another.
keep trying eventually you will have something.
Some days I just have to walk away for a few and come back refreshed relaxed
and ready again.
I believe this is what makes marbling marbling...its not easy but it can and
will happen.
Others will have have advice.
Stay tuned!
John Goode
watermarktile.com
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:58 PM, simonl332002
<MARYER8@...<mailto:MARYER8@...>> wrote:
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
<Marbling%40yahoogroups.com>, John Goode
> <watermarktile@...> wrote:
> >
>
> I am using differnt types of paint hoping to hit on the one that is the
> brightest and best, Liquitex soft body, createx airbrush colors, Jacquard
> textile color, and Lumiere from Jacquard. The room temp is about 78, (I like
> it warm)Faucet water is mixed with Borox water softner. I am thinning the
> paints either with water or ox gall. Sure appreciate your helping John.
>
> Mary
>
> >
>
> Hi Mary
> > which paints are you using?
> > what is the room temp?
> > what water makes the carrageenan? tap or rain or bottled?
> > what are we mixing with the paints? ox gall?
> > do not give up we all have these things happen at the tank.
> > Maybe we can diagnose with a bit more info.
> > Thanks John Goode
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:30 PM, simonl332002 <MARYER8@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall...
>
True, and ox-gall turned out to be a waste of money as well. Here is a secret I
learned from a professional paper marbler: instead of ox-gall, use Palmolive
dish soap (the green variety) diluted with soft boiling water (1 part Palmolive,
19 parts water). For some colors, a few drops to a teaspoonful of diluted soap
will suffice while for others (especially darker colors), the paint might have
to be mixed with a cupful.
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
http://www.flickr.com/gift/
Iris, by hard water do you mean just from the tap? My water is not very hard at
all. What is photo flo? I have no idea. Are Golden paints really the best for
this or as you say, what ever works best for me. I live in Phx Az and I don't
know of anyone doing marbling here so will just tough it out. Thanks for the
information.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not just
acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters. there is
no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently. Believing
there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one cake
recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give
brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the
paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale
color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get
it floating and get brighter color.
>
> Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down Photo Flo
and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I don't know
your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc., but a 78
degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could cause
sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4 cup
water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or gouache.
You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is, how thin
the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops from a
little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye dropper.
So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup of
paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days it
all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface tension.
>
> You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate it. It
never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and pale. For
that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that comes from
a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because it rules
out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use with
hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled, in
fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though,
especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out
water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
>
> I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy and
haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without going
overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh, so I
make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I
marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing
to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference
I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the
same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a
little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a
bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum
too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if
needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about
hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It was always streamlined and simple
yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets overly complicated where not
necessary and causes people frustration. No problems usually marbling this way
for 31 years...expect those mysterious days where things just don't feel like
working for some odd reason you never find out. Then you do the same exact
things the next day and all is fine. My bigger issues revolve around the
shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers which neutralizes the
alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play. It is a serious threat
to marbling, and something you have little control over. Your other materials
you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start making paper you are at
the mercy of the paper mills.
>
> You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can. Everyone
will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have worked
for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best. There
are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value to
take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they can
often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from as
many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
>
> Iris Nevins
> >
> > ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I will try this too, thanks
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Casino Wolf <dumpjunkmailhere@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall...
> >
>
> True, and ox-gall turned out to be a waste of money as well. Here is a secret
I learned from a professional paper marbler: instead of ox-gall, use Palmolive
dish soap (the green variety) diluted with soft boiling water (1 part Palmolive,
19 parts water). For some colors, a few drops to a teaspoonful of diluted soap
will suffice while for others (especially darker colors), the paint might have
to be mixed with a cupful.
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
>
> http://www.flickr.com/gift/
>
I used to use the old A&P green at times, until they added some weird stuff to
it, it work but leaves an odd film. Better yet would be pure liquid soap, maybe
Castille, perhaps from a health shop, no funny stuff.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: Casino Wolf<mailto:dumpjunkmailhere@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:28 PM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
>
> Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall...
>
True, and ox-gall turned out to be a waste of money as well. Here is a secret
I learned from a professional paper marbler: instead of ox-gall, use Palmolive
dish soap (the green variety) diluted with soft boiling water (1 part Palmolive,
19 parts water). For some colors, a few drops to a teaspoonful of diluted soap
will suffice while for others (especially darker colors), the paint might have
to be mixed with a cupful.
__________________________________________________________________
Looking for the perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr!
http://www.flickr.com/gift/<http://www.flickr.com/gift/>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tap water can be hard or soft. Typically well water will be harder than town
water supplies. If no one ever told me, I doubt I would have noticed much
difference at all, yet some people seem to not be able to use hard water. Mine
is hard as it can get, it's a problem to the pipes, toilets etc.
There must be ONE person within driving distance you can hook up with to marble?
Doesn't have to be a teacher or class, just one person who can make it work.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<about:blank>
----- Original Message -----
From: simonl332002<mailto:MARYER8@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:08 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
Iris, by hard water do you mean just from the tap? My water is not very hard
at all. What is photo flo? I have no idea. Are Golden paints really the best
for this or as you say, what ever works best for me. I live in Phx Az and I
don't know of anyone doing marbling here so will just tough it out. Thanks for
the information.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
<irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not just
acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters. there is
no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently. Believing
there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one cake
recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give
brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the
paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale
color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get
it floating and get brighter color.
>
> Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down Photo
Flo and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I don't
know your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc., but a 78
degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could cause
sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4 cup
water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or gouache.
You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is, how thin
the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops from a
little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye dropper.
So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup of
paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days it
all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface tension.
>
> You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate it. It
never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and pale. For
that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that comes from
a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because it rules
out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use with
hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled, in
fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though,
especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out
water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
>
> I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy and
haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without going
overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh, so I
make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I
marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing
to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference
I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the
same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a
little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a
bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum
too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if
needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about
hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It was
always streamlined and simple yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets
overly complicated where not necessary and causes people frustration. No
problems usually marbling this way for 31 years...expect those mysterious days
where things just don't feel like working for some odd reason you never find
out. Then you do the same exact things the next day and all is fine. My bigger
issues revolve around the shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers
which neutralizes the alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play.
It is a serious threat to marbling, and something you have little control over.
Your other materials you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start
making paper you are at the mercy of the paper mills.
>
> You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can.
Everyone will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have
worked for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best.
There are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value
to take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they
can often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from
as many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
>
> Iris Nevins
> >
> > ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Iris, I sure would drive to have someone help me but I have no way of knowing
who around Phoenix does this or how to go about finding out.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> Tap water can be hard or soft. Typically well water will be harder than town
water supplies. If no one ever told me, I doubt I would have noticed much
difference at all, yet some people seem to not be able to use hard water. Mine
is hard as it can get, it's a problem to the pipes, toilets etc.
>
> There must be ONE person within driving distance you can hook up with to
marble? Doesn't have to be a teacher or class, just one person who can make it
work.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<about:blank>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: simonl332002<mailto:MARYER8@...>
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:08 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
>
>
> Iris, by hard water do you mean just from the tap? My water is not very hard
at all. What is photo flo? I have no idea. Are Golden paints really the best
for this or as you say, what ever works best for me. I live in Phx Az and I
don't know of anyone doing marbling here so will just tough it out. Thanks for
the information.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
"irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
> >
> > It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not
just acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters.
there is no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently.
Believing there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one
cake recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give
brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the
paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale
color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get
it floating and get brighter color.
> >
> > Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down Photo
Flo and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I don't
know your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc., but a 78
degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could cause
sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4 cup
water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or gouache.
You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is, how thin
the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops from a
little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye dropper.
So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup of
paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days it
all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface tension.
> >
> > You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate it.
It never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and pale.
For that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that comes
from a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because it
rules out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use
with hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled,
in fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though,
especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out
water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
> >
> > I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy
and haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without
going overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh,
so I make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I
marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing
to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference
I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the
same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a
little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a
bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum
too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if
needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about
hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It was
> always streamlined and simple yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets
overly complicated where not necessary and causes people frustration. No
problems usually marbling this way for 31 years...expect those mysterious days
where things just don't feel like working for some odd reason you never find
out. Then you do the same exact things the next day and all is fine. My bigger
issues revolve around the shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers
which neutralizes the alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play.
It is a serious threat to marbling, and something you have little control over.
Your other materials you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start
making paper you are at the mercy of the paper mills.
> >
> > You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can.
Everyone will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have
worked for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best.
There are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value
to take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they
can often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from
as many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
> >
> > Iris Nevins
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Not to give you an overload of information, but would like to give a few
pointers, too. Consider myself a professional marbler & teacher & I recommend
distilled water for mixing paints & alum. Tap water (even my horrible
iron-filled well water when at home) suffices for size. Am a big fan of Golden
Fluid Acrylics as paints-- the depth of color I find consistent & outstanding.
Instead of oxgall, I use Golden Acrylic Flow Release-- a liquid medium that
works really well. I mix distilled water in a small dropper bottle & add 2 - 4
drops of the Flow Release & adjust as I marble during the day.
Keep at it! When it works, it's so satisfying! It does take a lot of
experimenting! You must eventually sift through all the information, even
teachers' instruction, and find what works best for you. Welcome to our
wonderful world of marbling!
Creatively,
Pat K. Thomas
Facebook: tinyurl.com/seenmymarbles
Become a fan!
Sounds like you have gotten some excellent advice. I marble on fabric
using methylcel and have found that GAC900 (which is the fabric additive for
the Golden paints) seems to be a surfactant and when added in small doses to
the paints (which I thin down to almost milk consistency) can help in the
spreading. I have used dish soap and a detergent called Synthrapol in the
past and they have to be watered way way down or your paints will spread too
much. Some use alcohol in the paints to help with the spreading. I
prefer the no additive approach as much as possible so the Golden fluid
acrylics paints work best for me - very high pigment and low thickening
additives in them. (Their headquarters is here in NY and I have had the
privilege of hearing a long lecture on their paints -- fascinating.)
I might add that I am a relative beginner compared to the people on this
list!
--
Beth
www.quilterb-bethsblog.blogspot.com
www.picasaweb.google.com/elizabeth.brandkamp
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Maybe someone on this list knows of someone. If not, get as many books, DVDs and
info as possible and try things until something works. It took me maybe six
months in isolation to figure out how to make it work even a little. There was
next to zero info out there, and no web back then. You should have an easier
time. Thin the paints, cool the size get the right dispersant for your paints.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: simonl332002<mailto:MARYER8@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 11:19 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
Iris, I sure would drive to have someone help me but I have no way of knowing
who around Phoenix does this or how to go about finding out.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
<irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> Tap water can be hard or soft. Typically well water will be harder than town
water supplies. If no one ever told me, I doubt I would have noticed much
difference at all, yet some people seem to not be able to use hard water. Mine
is hard as it can get, it's a problem to the pipes, toilets etc.
>
> There must be ONE person within driving distance you can hook up with to
marble? Doesn't have to be a teacher or class, just one person who can make it
work.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<about:blank>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: simonl332002<mailto:MARYER8<mailto:MARYER8>@...>
> To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 7:08 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
>
>
> Iris, by hard water do you mean just from the tap? My water is not very
hard at all. What is photo flo? I have no idea. Are Golden paints really the
best for this or as you say, what ever works best for me. I live in Phx Az and
I don't know of anyone doing marbling here so will just tough it out. Thanks
for the information.
>
> Mary
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com%3Cmailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@> wrote:
> >
> > It's really hard to say what to do, every type paint is different. Not
just acrylic, or watercolor, but within the types, what brand it is matters.
there is no generic "marbling paint" formula, each maker makes it differently.
Believing there is a marbling paint formula is like assuming there is only one
cake recipe. The big mistake many make though is thinking denser paint will give
brighter color. What happens often is that the specific gravity or weight of the
paint, if heavier than the size, will cause it to sink and you will get pale
color or no color. Add a bit of water and thin it down more, you will likely get
it floating and get brighter color.
> >
> > Acrylics don't often respond well to ox gall, but you can thin down
Photo Flo and use it as you would ox-gall. I can't tell you how much because I
don't know your paint, and don't know how thick or how thin the size is etc.,
but a 78 degree size is going to lose viscosity at a more rapid rate and could
cause sinking. Try cooler if possible. I'd try about 10 drops Photo Flo in 1/4
cup water and use as gall. Ox-gall works best with water color paints or
gouache. You can say a drop or two only, but it depends how strong the gall is,
how thin the paint is. For my paints I use as a starting point about eight drops
from a little drop bottle, a drop equals about half a drop from a regular eye
dropper. So I use eight of mine which is like four from an eye dropper in 1 cup
of paint...but then will add a little more to some other colors, and some days
it all wants more gall than others, depends on weather, humidity, surface
tension.
> >
> > You really just need to experiment. Borax in the size, I utterly hate
it. It never did any good for me and only made the paints fuzzy looking and
pale. For that reason too, it's a bad idea to use water for size or paint that
comes from a water softener. I make my paints with distilled water, just because
it rules out the water as a problem. I have in a pinch made paint for my own use
with hard tap water many times, and it behaved just the same as with distilled,
in fact some of the colors behaved BETTER. I don't sell it that way though,
especially in case I need to troubleshoot for someone using it, I can rule out
water as a problem. otherwise the formulas for the colors are identical.
> >
> > I make all my size with very, very hard tap water. I tend to be a sloppy
and haphazard marbler, many would be horrified, and use what's easiest without
going overboard on additives, in fact use none in the size. It works best fresh,
so I make what I need for one day, no more, and make more for the next day if I
marble again, it's so fast and easy, why preserve a filthy size, it's depressing
to me to look at the grey mess the next morning first thing. The only difference
I find in hard water as opposed to soft, distilled etc. for size, is that the
same way hard water doesn't lather up the soap as much as soft, you need a
little more carrageenan to get the same viscosity, so I round the Tablespoons a
bit. That's the only difference I ever had. I use hard tap water for my alum
too. I was never taught to marble so used what I had with little adjustments if
needed, and had no thought about additives or being super clean or worried about
hard or soft water or preservatives etc. It
was
> always streamlined and simple yet worked fine. Sometimes I think it gets
overly complicated where not necessary and causes people frustration. No
problems usually marbling this way for 31 years...expect those mysterious days
where things just don't feel like working for some odd reason you never find
out. Then you do the same exact things the next day and all is fine. My bigger
issues revolve around the shoveling of too much calcium carbonate into papers
which neutralizes the alum...that issue seems to make all others child's play.
It is a serious threat to marbling, and something you have little control over.
Your other materials you can tweak this way and that, but unless you start
making paper you are at the mercy of the paper mills.
> >
> > You really need to play with everything, and read as much as you can.
Everyone will tell you something else, and there are many "right ways" that have
worked for people, so try everything until you hit on what works for you best.
There are many books and instructions out there, and it's always of great value
to take a class with an experienced marbler. That is the best, in person they
can often figure out the problem in a few minutes. In fact learn in person from
as many as possible, and you will find your way best that way.
> >
> > Iris Nevins
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello everyone,
I have all natural supplies for marbling art.
Natural pigments
Brushes from horse hair and rose wood
Pins and combs
Ox gall
Seaweed for the water
If you need any materials you can contact me from bingulsevimli@...
or you can check my website, www.ebruartusa.us
Best,
Bingul Sevimli
Wow, you guys are all just great--- a plethora of information! I am going to
take most of the day and go through all the blogs and web sites, they are so
beautiful and just full of information too. I don't know why I haven't tried
golden paints, maybe the price? I too would like to do fabric someday, I am a
quilter from way back. I thought I would start with paper because my
Grandaughter uses it in her scrapbooking and I thought it was so pretty. Again,
thanks so much for all the help, and now, to get busy putting it all together.
Linda, I used to live in Tucson, 35 years ago, a lot has changed there.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Linda <marblers2008@...> wrote:
>
> Mary - we're in Tucson, used to water and heat!
>
> Linda Moran
> --
> An Ancient Art Made Modern!
> Marble-T Design
> http://www.marbledfab.com
> Blog: http://marbledmusings.blogspot.com
>
I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the process
out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they give
there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial error, and
then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to almost be a
scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the room is to
cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the heater
agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more cooperative
today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I am
embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your
own. Peace Gretchen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi, I have been checking out the books at the library but didn't know they any
tapes on it. I have watched the tapes on U-tube, they are a bit helpful, of
course they don't give all the little details. Like you said mostly trial and
error. Thanks.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@...> wrote:
>
> I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the process
out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they give
there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial error, and
then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to almost be a
scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the room is to
cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the heater
agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more cooperative
today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I am
embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your
own. Peace Gretchen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
There are two titles, which you can search for on the internet:
http://www.pagesage.com/dvds/MMB84306.html will lead you to a site which sells
Peggy Skycraft's DVD on marbling for $29.95 plus p&h
Marbling Designs by Patty & Mimi Schleicher is out-of-print as a hard copy book,
but they also did a VHS version of the book which is very helpful in actually
seeing the patterns being made. You might try searching the internet for
copies. The book won't really help a newbie to marbling as you would have to
mastered applying color before attempting to manipulate the patterns, but the
VHS is very helpful in actually seeing how it is done. See if interlibrary loan
can get the VHS tape, it's worth a try.
Hope this helps,
d. guffey
----- Original Message -----
From: simonl332002
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:12 AM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: try try and try again
Hi, I have been checking out the books at the library but didn't know they any
tapes on it. I have watched the tapes on U-tube, they are a bit helpful, of
course they don't give all the little details. Like you said mostly trial and
error. Thanks.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@...> wrote:
>
> I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the
process out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they
give there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial
error, and then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to
almost be a scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the
room is to cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the
heater agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more
cooperative today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I
am embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your own.
Peace Gretchen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09
08:08:00
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks for this site, I have just ordered Peggys DVD, I see that she uses Golden
paints, guess I will have to get some.
Mary
.--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
>
> There are two titles, which you can search for on the internet:
>
> http://www.pagesage.com/dvds/MMB84306.html will lead you to a site which sells
Peggy Skycraft's DVD on marbling for $29.95 plus p&h
>
> Marbling Designs by Patty & Mimi Schleicher is out-of-print as a hard copy
book, but they also did a VHS version of the book which is very helpful in
actually seeing the patterns being made. You might try searching the internet
for copies. The book won't really help a newbie to marbling as you would have
to mastered applying color before attempting to manipulate the patterns, but the
VHS is very helpful in actually seeing how it is done. See if interlibrary loan
can get the VHS tape, it's worth a try.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> d. guffey
>
>
>
>
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09
08:08:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I found a used copy of the Schleicher book in excellent condition through
www.alibris.com.
Also the marbling book by Diane Maurer-Mathison is very good. Diane does have a
website: www.dianemaurer.com/books. Hope this helps.
Mary Holland
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "D or Jer Guffey" <dguff@...> wrote:
>
> There are two titles, which you can search for on the internet:
>
> http://www.pagesage.com/dvds/MMB84306.html will lead you to a site which sells
Peggy Skycraft's DVD on marbling for $29.95 plus p&h
>
> Marbling Designs by Patty & Mimi Schleicher is out-of-print as a hard copy
book, but they also did a VHS version of the book which is very helpful in
actually seeing the patterns being made. You might try searching the internet
for copies. The book won't really help a newbie to marbling as you would have
to mastered applying color before attempting to manipulate the patterns, but the
VHS is very helpful in actually seeing how it is done. See if interlibrary loan
can get the VHS tape, it's worth a try.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> d. guffey
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: simonl332002
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 10:12 AM
> Subject: [Marbling] Re: try try and try again
>
>
>
>
> Hi, I have been checking out the books at the library but didn't know they
any tapes on it. I have watched the tapes on U-tube, they are a bit helpful, of
course they don't give all the little details. Like you said mostly trial and
error. Thanks.
>
> Mary
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@> wrote:
> >
> > I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the
process out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they
give there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial
error, and then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to
almost be a scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the
room is to cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the
heater agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more
cooperative today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I
am embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your own.
Peace Gretchen
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.48/2292 - Release Date: 08/09/09
08:08:00
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
I have checked out Schleicher's book from my Library here, and the other one,
that I could find was out of print and they wanted 140.00 plus shipping. Little
too pricy for me. Thanks for looking these up.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "marysmarbling" <marysmarbling@...> wrote:
>
> I found a used copy of the Schleicher book in excellent condition through
www.alibris.com.
>
> Also the marbling book by Diane Maurer-Mathison is very good. Diane does have
a website: www.dianemaurer.com/books. Hope this helps.
>
> Mary Holland
>
>
>
>
>
There is no true formula... it's like asking for "the cookie recipe". many
variations. Many depend on weather. You can never say 10 drops gall to one cup
paint...what paint, how thick, thin, what size is used, what additives, how cold
or hit is it, etc. How lovely if we could have one fool proof formula, you'd see
thousands more marblers.
I am beyond a slob. It's so funny if someone comes to work on a repair in the
basement, where my studio is, I say SHUT THE DOOR!!! You're letting DUST in.
They think I am totally insane. Mess, fine, but dreaded dust, leaves those
darned little white specks all over the papers. I don't mind the dust itself, as
long as it knows to stay on the floor. The more movement or people in the room,
it kicks up the dust.
There are as many different variations on how to marble as there are marblers.
It is more science than art, or at least equally so. Find what works in your
space and stick with it.
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:37 PM
Subject: [Marbling] try try and try again
I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the process
out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they give
there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial error, and
then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to almost be a
scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the room is to
cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the heater
agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more cooperative
today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I am
embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your own.
Peace Gretchen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
And there is one thing to keep in mind which happens to be the same for all
paper decorating techniques: There is no all-purpose-item for anything. Give an
original to five experienced paper decorators and you're sure to get at least
five good copies, done in about seven ways. So forget about the magic formula.
That's what's keeping us young, alert and flexible.
Susanne Krause
www.hamburgerbuntpapier.de
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> There is no true formula... it's like asking for "the cookie recipe". many
variations. Many depend on weather. You can never say 10 drops gall to one cup
paint...what paint, how thick, thin, what size is used, what additives, how cold
or hit is it, etc. How lovely if we could have one fool proof formula, you'd see
thousands more marblers.
>
> I am beyond a slob. It's so funny if someone comes to work on a repair in the
basement, where my studio is, I say SHUT THE DOOR!!! You're letting DUST in.
They think I am totally insane. Mess, fine, but dreaded dust, leaves those
darned little white specks all over the papers. I don't mind the dust itself, as
long as it knows to stay on the floor. The more movement or people in the room,
it kicks up the dust.
>
> There are as many different variations on how to marble as there are marblers.
It is more science than art, or at least equally so. Find what works in your
space and stick with it.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gretchen vansant<mailto:fine_artist2002@...>
> To: marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:marbling@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 12:37 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] try try and try again
>
>
> I've been marbling for 10 years now? gosh. I got a VHS tape about the
process out of the local library. There are many books also , but rarely do they
give there true "formula". Gosh I think it took me the first 5 years trial
error, and then when I moved I had to change my formula again. You have to
almost be a scientist I think. I find it almost impossible to marble when the
room is to cold, one part of the vat is colder than another part closer to the
heater agh!!! I find it to be a labor of love, which color will be more
cooperative today than another. Iris I'm glad you admitted your abit sloppy. I
am embarrassed to bring my "helpers" in when I'm ready to lay. I get immersed in
the work with the pattern rather than my mess!!! .I think its great people can
come here to ask questions....but you have to discover it somewhat on your own.
Peace Gretchen
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Please join us for Creative Studio Night THIS WEDNESDAY!
Wednesday, August 12th
6:30pm- 9:30pm
JAYCEE CENTER FOR THE ARTS
2000 W. Airport Freeway, Irving, TX
972-721-8063 Voice Mail
972-721-2488 Gallery
Light dinner snacks and refreshments will garnish an evening of creativity as we
experiment with Painting & Texture on Canvas.
We'll create colorful, textured, layers on canvas board using acrylic paint,
stencils, lettering, hot glue and more!
Please bring $15 to cover materials and use of supplies.
Bring a Friend!
Demo begins at 6:45pm!
RSVP is appreciated and for more info:
angie@...
Texas Lettering Arts Council
P.O. Box 3126, Coppell, TX 75019
972-745-3698 • www.txlac.org
Oops, posted this to the wrong list. Sorry.
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "sharonrosegiles" <sharon_giles@...> wrote:
>
> Please join us for Creative Studio Night THIS WEDNESDAY!
> Wednesday, August 12th
> 6:30pm- 9:30pm
>
> JAYCEE CENTER FOR THE ARTS
> 2000 W. Airport Freeway, Irving, TX
> 972-721-8063 Voice Mail
> 972-721-2488 Gallery
>
> Light dinner snacks and refreshments will garnish an evening of creativity as
we experiment with Painting & Texture on Canvas.
>
> We'll create colorful, textured, layers on canvas board using acrylic paint,
stencils, lettering, hot glue and more!
>
> Please bring $15 to cover materials and use of supplies.
> Bring a Friend!
> Demo begins at 6:45pm!
>
> RSVP is appreciated and for more info:
> angie@...
> Texas Lettering Arts Council
> P.O. Box 3126, Coppell, TX 75019
> 972-745-3698 • www.txlac.org
>
Hello All,
Mimi Schleicher had her video "EXPERIENCE THE MAGIC OF MARBLING" converted to
DVD. It is available through her web site:
http://www.marbling.com/
Jake Benson
I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one
of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes.
Sometimes they offer them together.
I've bought pretty much every book available on marbling there is
and downloaded some of the internet.
Also, there are two excellent dvd's on marbling, one by Peggy
Skycraft which you can buy thorugh dharma trading at
www.dharmatrading.com and one by Mimi Schleicher at her site.:
http://www.marbling.com/ both of these helped me a lot.
Also, there are many marbling videos on www.youtube.com just put
marbling or ebru in the search box. One of the best is by two
australian women who use oil colors, but you can learn by watching
them is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs
I have had very god luck with two cheaper brands of acrylics for both
paper and silk scarves. I am in Fairbanks, AK so have to get a lot of
things over the internet, but these two are Apple Barrel Brand in the
crafts section at WalMart for $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle and Artworks
Artist Quality Acrylics - also says ProArt on the bottle about halfway
down for $7 a bottle from Ben Franklin.
The paints I have had no luck with at all were the metallic ones - in
any brand so far. The one I had the biggest frustration with was the
carbon black from Golden - it "bleeds" of the paper almost every
time.
I started out with Golden fluid acrylics but they are way more
expensive, but have wonderful colors you can't get anywhere else.
Most of the time I just dilute the color with water until they are about
the cfonsistency of 2% milk or a bit thinner. The blues tend to
spread themost by theirselves. Each color is different so there is no
set formula for mixing them, and one day they might work differently
from another, so I always test them in a corner of the tank to see if
they will "play"
The cheapest thing to use for tanks for paper is the "photo frame"
clear boxes for photos - I get them at Michaels here. You will go
through a lot of frustrations and discoveries doing marbling, but
that's how it goes. Just keep going.
I use photo flo for all these and I get it from:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195-
REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html
One bottle will last a long time - you dilute it quite a bit to use it.
Also, as has been discussed quite a bit here lately, the main
frustration now is the paper. Some papers work and some don't
and right now I've had good luck with the cheaper sketch paper from
Dick Blick or the white sulphite from
http://www.colophonbookarts.com/ she is very helpful if you call her.
As for classes, some are better than others. I just waited for 3
months to take one because it was here and it was such a
disappoint, I almost cried. She didn't bring any examples and had
us working with wet sumi paper, which was like working with toilet
paper because it doesn't have any size. She claimed she had been
trained in it, but I had more experience than she did and just tried to
keep my mouth shut and try things the way she did, but it was a
disaster. The size was too thick and wouldn't wash off the paper, if
you were even able to pick it up without tearing it, etc., etc.
But hands on is still better than trying to figure it out yourself if
possible. Good luck and hope some of this is some help to you.
Sue Cole
Fairbanks, AK
True... the Blick Sulphite works like a charm. I get it at
www.dickblick.com<http://www.dickblick.com/> it has saved both my life and
sanity. I wish they had a 70 lb. weight though. I found a 70 from NASCO, and
guess what... though called the same thing, it doesn't marble really well, it is
the good old "acid-free" buffered junk again. Must be from a different mill.
they claim acid free, I should have known. it was cheap though, and sometimes
things could be acid free without the use of CC I guessed, so tried it. Oh well,
lots of art paper for the grandkikds for the next decade! I may give it to the
nursery school!
I always liked that cheap acrylic. I use Ceram-Coat, but all those cheap
acrylics are nice. Just be aware, not all colors in all brands work right. Also
one batch to the next may be different. They do not tailor make paints to the
marbling process, I think perhaps only myself and Colophon do, as far as paints
for sale in the US, and we do watercolors, not acrylics. We use our own paint
all the time so can trouble shoot well too, or tweak the mixes a bit where
needed. Honestly, for paper, I find watercolor way more predictable and easier
to use. Fabric is another story, you need it to be washable. Try the cheap
stuff, it's like a dollar a bottle. It's on the thick side, but most is due to
acrylic base, so I never diluted much. In fact the addition of more base as
opposed to more pigment, can tame the nature of the pigments and make them more
workable, oddly enough. It's something I discovered when I used to make
acrylics. They are expensive though to make and a real pain, so I discontinued
them, but did find the Ceram Coat and Folk Craft or something like that name,
work really well. The best route is to find a good red, yellow, blue, black,
white, that work and mix from them. You have fewer variables and less
troubleshooting this way. Sometimes the pretty colors are not marbling friendly!
In fact most pigment is not, and this is what any maker of true marbling paints
learns rapidly and at great expense!
Keep trying... I started 31 years ago in my kitchen, with next to no info out
there. It took MONTHS to get a thing to float. And we used the dried whole
seaweed, boiled, strained, it was rough!! then one day it worked and I never
stopped!
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue Cole<mailto:akartisan@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 2:51 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Need Help
I would think Phoenix would be large enough you could contact one
of the Universities and ask for bookbinding or marbling classes.
Sometimes they offer them together.
I've bought pretty much every book available on marbling there is
and downloaded some of the internet.
Also, there are two excellent dvd's on marbling, one by Peggy
Skycraft which you can buy thorugh dharma trading at
www.dharmatrading.com<http://www.dharmatrading.com/> and one by Mimi
Schleicher at her site.:
http://www.marbling.com/<http://www.marbling.com/> both of these helped me a
lot.
Also, there are many marbling videos on
www.youtube.com<http://www.youtube.com/> just put
marbling or ebru in the search box. One of the best is by two
australian women who use oil colors, but you can learn by watching
them is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILOfT1bs<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54OILO\
fT1bs>
I have had very god luck with two cheaper brands of acrylics for both
paper and silk scarves. I am in Fairbanks, AK so have to get a lot of
things over the internet, but these two are Apple Barrel Brand in the
crafts section at WalMart for $2.00 for an 8 oz bottle and Artworks
Artist Quality Acrylics - also says ProArt on the bottle about halfway
down for $7 a bottle from Ben Franklin.
The paints I have had no luck with at all were the metallic ones - in
any brand so far. The one I had the biggest frustration with was the
carbon black from Golden - it "bleeds" of the paper almost every
time.
I started out with Golden fluid acrylics but they are way more
expensive, but have wonderful colors you can't get anywhere else.
Most of the time I just dilute the color with water until they are about
the cfonsistency of 2% milk or a bit thinner. The blues tend to
spread themost by theirselves. Each color is different so there is no
set formula for mixing them, and one day they might work differently
from another, so I always test them in a corner of the tank to see if
they will "play"
The cheapest thing to use for tanks for paper is the "photo frame"
clear boxes for photos - I get them at Michaels here. You will go
through a lot of frustrations and discoveries doing marbling, but
that's how it goes. Just keep going.
I use photo flo for all these and I get it from:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/28195<http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc\
t/28195>-
REG/Kodak_1464510_Photo_Flo_200_Solution.html
One bottle will last a long time - you dilute it quite a bit to use it.
Also, as has been discussed quite a bit here lately, the main
frustration now is the paper. Some papers work and some don't
and right now I've had good luck with the cheaper sketch paper from
Dick Blick or the white sulphite from
http://www.colophonbookarts.com/<http://www.colophonbookarts.com/> she is
very helpful if you call her.
As for classes, some are better than others. I just waited for 3
months to take one because it was here and it was such a
disappoint, I almost cried. She didn't bring any examples and had
us working with wet sumi paper, which was like working with toilet
paper because it doesn't have any size. She claimed she had been
trained in it, but I had more experience than she did and just tried to
keep my mouth shut and try things the way she did, but it was a
disaster. The size was too thick and wouldn't wash off the paper, if
you were even able to pick it up without tearing it, etc., etc.
But hands on is still better than trying to figure it out yourself if
possible. Good luck and hope some of this is some help to you.
Sue Cole
Fairbanks, AK
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Diane Maurer even says she uses the chep acrylics and that they work for her.
The main difference I have noticed is that the cheap ones will separate in the
bottle after standing for awhile, while the Golden and the ProArt never
separate. I DO use GAC 100 and 900 in the paint a lot of times when i am doing
the silk and cotton.
The only person I was able to take a REAL lesson with uses Academy student
watercolors and supplies from Colophon. She uses Hurakaze paper from new York
Central Art Supply - it isn't listed on the internet - I had to call them to get
it, but it sreasonable and marbles well and you get good, bright colors with the
watercolors and ox gall, which she used with them.
Sue
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> True... the Blick Sulphite works like a charm. I get it at
www.dickblick.com<http://www.dickblick.com/> it has saved both my life and
sanity. I wish they had a 70 lb. weight though. I found a 70 from NASCO, and
guess what... though called the same thing, it doesn't marble really well, it is
the good old "acid-free" buffered junk again. Must be from a different mill.
they claim acid free, I should have known. it was cheap though, and sometimes
things could be acid free without the use of CC I guessed, so tried it. Oh well,
lots of art paper for the grandkikds for the next decade! I may give it to the
nursery school!
>
> I always liked that cheap acrylic. I use Ceram-Coat, but all those cheap
acrylics are nice. Just be aware, not all colors in all brands work right. Also
one batch to the next may be different. They do not tailor make paints to the
marbling process, I think perhaps only myself and Colophon do, as far as paints
for sale in the US, and we do watercolors, not acrylics. We use our own paint
all the time so can trouble shoot well too, or tweak the mixes a bit where
needed. Honestly, for paper, I find watercolor way more predictable and easier
to use. Fabric is another story, you need it to be washable. Try the cheap
stuff, it's like a dollar a bottle. It's on the thick side, but most is due to
acrylic base, so I never diluted much. In fact the addition of more base as
opposed to more pigment, can tame the nature of the pigments and make them more
workable, oddly enough. It's something I discovered when I used to make
acrylics. They are expensive though to make and a real pain, so I discontinued
them, but did find the Ceram Coat and Folk Craft or something like that name,
work really well. The best route is to find a good red, yellow, blue, black,
white, that work and mix from them. You have fewer variables and less
troubleshooting this way. Sometimes the pretty colors are not marbling friendly!
In fact most pigment is not, and this is what any maker of true marbling paints
learns rapidly and at great expense!
>
> Keep trying... I started 31 years ago in my kitchen, with next to no info out
there. It took MONTHS to get a thing to float. And we used the dried whole
seaweed, boiled, strained, it was rough!! then one day it worked and I never
stopped!
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
>
I guess the thing to do, would be to try a couple of bottles of all, and see
what works best. I have almost a couple of bottles of them already. What has
worked the best so far is the Golden, of course ---one of the most expensive
ones. I have ordered Mastering Marbling, with Peggy Skycraft.
Mary
--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "artsycole" <akartisan@...> wrote:
>
>
> Diane Maurer even says she uses the chep acrylics and that they work for her.
The main difference I have noticed is that the cheap ones will separate in the
bottle after standing for awhile, while the Golden and the ProArt never
separate. I DO use GAC 100 and 900 in the paint a lot of times when i am doing
the silk and cotton.
>
> The only person I was able to take a REAL lesson with uses Academy student
watercolors and supplies from Colophon. She uses Hurakaze paper from new York
Central Art Supply - it isn't listed on the internet - I had to call them to get
it, but it sreasonable and marbles well and you get good, bright colors with the
watercolors and ox gall, which she used with them.
> Sue
>
>
>
>>
Hello everyone, I will be giving Ebru (Marbling Art) demonstration in Edgewater
Public Library, in NJ. It will be on Monday August 17th from 6:30-7:30 pm. I
would be happy to see you there.
The adress:
49 Hudson Ave.
Edgewater,NJ
http://www.edgewaterlibrary.org/Events/tabid/60/Default.aspx
Who handles the main marbling site. My name is incorrect...I'd like to correct
it... I sent an e-mail to Marie? but it was returned...any help appreiciated.
Peace Gretchen Vansant
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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