Haytham,

Your image was not attached.  Please post it to a photo album on the
group web site:

http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos

Incidentally, an early 19th c. Ottoman calligraphy panel featuring the
Ayat ul Kursi, written on marbled paper has come up for auction at
Sotheby's.  The border appears to be of the "sprinkled" stencil variety.

http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=159438928

The signature is a bit difficult to make out though.  Any thoughts?

Jake

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, haytham kamal <senefru1@...> wrote:
>
> Is the background of the attached manuscript made using the marbling
technique?
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Jake,
   I have uploaded the image to an album called manuscripts, its name is
"ConsulterElementNum1", Because I am new in the art of marbling I can't
recognize if the background of this manuscript is made using marbling or not.

   about the Ottoman panel I tried hard to read the signature but I couldn`t, I
will ask others to try, may be !
   I wish if you kindly send to me more web sites of auctions where I may find
examples like this Ottoman panel.
   thank you,
   Haytham


---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ahlan ya Haytham,

I think this is "zarafshan" which means "gold flecking" in Persian.
It is spelled "Zerefşan" in Modern Turkish.  Many early 16th c example
of marbling feature this over top of the marbling.

I believe an example of is posted on the Bibliothèque Nationale site.

Were you able to find the book Fan ul Khatt by M. Uğur Derman?  It is
the Arabic translation of his Turkish book Islam Kültür Mirasinda Hat
San'atı.

Some years ago, I saw it being sold by Madbuli's bookshop in Midan
Talat Harb, but it was very expensive.

Here are more links:
http://marbling.org/internet_links.htm#edu
http://www.uoguelph.ca/%7Eagokcen/ebruli/
http://security.ece.orst.edu/koc/favorites/ebru/

  and this one in Turkish contains a number of images:
http://www.turkislamsanatlari.com/ebru/index.html

Also, if you search the marbling list for my name name, you will find
many links posted.

ma'a salamah,

Jake

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, haytham kamal <senefru1@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Jake,
>   I have uploaded the image to an album called manuscripts, its name
is "ConsulterElementNum1", Because I am new in the art of marbling I
can't recognize if the background of this manuscript is made using
marbling or not.
>
>   about the Ottoman panel I tried hard to read the signature but I
couldn`t, I will ask others to try, may be !
>   I wish if you kindly send to me more web sites of auctions where I
may find examples like this Ottoman panel.
>   thank you,
>   Haytham
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo!
Search.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Dear Jake--A most curious thing happened.  I was reading my new
> Decorated Book Papers by Rosamond Loring, 4th edition, in the section
> called Paste End Papers.  I turned page 69 to continue the sentence on
> the verso, but to my amazement there was nothing printed on that
page! I
> checked my copy of the 3rd edition, and sure enough there was the rest
> of the sentence on page 70.  What happened to that page in this
edition?
> Is there someone we can have recourse to?  Elinor Eisemann

Hi Elinor,

Is this the edition that you obtained?

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/LORDEC.html

Does anyone else on this list have this new edition?  Is your copy
also missing this page?  I've been tempted to get it myself, just for
the inclusion of the color images.

Elinor, if you have a mis-printed copy, you might be able to exchange
it for another.  Try contacting the Print and Graphic Curator at
Houghton, Hope Mayo (click on the library page link on the above page,
and then click on the staff directory).

I hope this helps!

Jake

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "walpolepo" <geisemann@...> wrote:
>
>  Dear Jake--A most curious thing happened.  I was reading my new
> > Decorated Book Papers by Rosamond Loring, 4th edition, in the section
> > called Paste End Papers.  I turned page 69 to continue the sentence on
> > the verso, but to my amazement there was nothing printed on that
> page! I
> > checked my copy of the 3rd edition, and sure enough there was the rest
> > of the sentence on page 70.  What happened to that page in this
> edition?
> > Is there someone we can have recourse to?  Elinor Eisemann
>

Also see and read about the work of the late Christopher Weinmann in

Ink & Gall   Volume V  Number 2

Fine Print  Volume Nine, Number Four

Christopher Weinman   A Tribute


charles
+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
L. A Book Arts, Inc.
Custom Bindery / Krause Intaglio
321 West Torrance Blvd.  Suite A
Carson, CA 90745
310.217.0400
+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+

On Mar 23, 2008, at 1:18 PM, Jake Benson wrote:

> '3zizi Hadratak Haytham!
>
> This long message was written by me to help expand upon the
> description that Antonio posted, with some added observations about
> "silhouette" papers.
>
> "Silhouette paper" as we call it in English, is one method of
> stenciling known by the terms "kaghez-i 'aksi" or "akkaseh" in
> Persian, which is spelled "akkase" in Modern Turkish. The word is
> derived from the Arabic word 'aks meaning "negative" "contrary"
> "opposite" or "contrast", and in this case can be interpreted to mean
> "reflection". Various Turkish sources (based on the writings of
> Mehmet Ali Kagitçi) have reported that the word means "white bowl",
> but this is erroneous as this latter word is spelled completely
> differently in Arabic script. Interestingly enough today in Iran,
> this term is commonly used to refer to photography, likely due to the
> process of using negative film.
>
> This term was used in India as well as Iran and Turkey, and is a very
> broadly used for all methods of stenciled designs. There are really 3
> different methods of stenciling found in Islamic decorative papers:
>
> 1) Cut paper is placed on a paper and colors are finely sprinkled over
> top, and then the stencil is removed.
>
> 2) Cut paper, leather, or even possible fabric is soaked in dye, and 2
> sheets of paper are pressed together as a sandwich around the stencil.
>
> 3) Color is wiped or blotted through a cut paper stencil, in a
> "pochoir" method. The stencil which may or may not be reinforced in
> some manner.
>
> (Then there is the additional method of combining stencils with
> marbling!)
>
> In addition, it is very common to find the designs produced by all of
> these methods can be seen outlined in ink, color, or gold, or in some
> cases, even overpainted.
>
> The information that Antonio gave about using cut leather soaked with
> dye to produce such papers came from a description provided by the
> late Turkish bookbinder Emin Barin to Albert Haemmerle. There is no
> actual textual source for the method he described, and it is not known
> whether he actually reproduced such designs himself, as the production
> of such papers had clearly died out by that point in time. I think he
> was simply offering his thought based on his own observations. See
> Haemmerle's Buntpapier, page 37, footnote 5, and on page 38. That
> said, it was this particular form of "impressed" stencil are what can
> be found in European Alba Amicora of the late 16th-17th centuries. I
> am not aware that the other "sprinkled" and "pochoir" methods were
> collected by European travelers in these albums.
>
> Barin attributed the invention of this impressed paper to Central Asia
> and cited two manuscripts, but did not provide an actual reference or
> accession number. Whether these manuscripts were produced using the
> "impressed" or the "sprinkled" method remains to be determined. Many
> examples of the "sprinkled" method can be found n 15th century
> manuscripts, but I have yet to see any made through the "impressed"
> method from before the 16th century. I think that this "sprinkled"
> method is the oldest method. It appears to have been developed during
> the late Timurid dynasty in workshops in Central Asia, principally
> Herat, especially during the reign of Sultan Husayn al Bayqara. While
> there is no textual source describing the method, this can be observed
> in many manuscripts, especially safina or jung anthologies from the
> 15th- 17th c. In Central Asia, Iran, and Turkey. I've yet to see one
> of Indian production.
>
> According to Yves Porter, the process is mentioned in a Persian text
> from India, entitled "Risala-ye Jeld Sazi". There is a problematic
> term for the material mentioned in a critical edition of the text-
> "kasanbi" or "kasambi". Porter thinks it may an Indian word for a
> kind of safflower-dyed starch cloth. See Porter's book Paintere,
> Paintings, and Books" pp 51-2. he also mentions that the term
> "kaghez-i 'Aksi" together with "Kaghez-i Abri" is mentioned in the
> Persian dictionary Me'at ul Istilah of Anand Ram Mokhles.
>
> The other methods of stenciling were created by sprinkling very fine
> drops of color over a cut paper stencil, and then in another different
> procedure, there appears to be a kind of tampon used to press color
> directly over the stencil, akin to the French method of "pochoir".
> This latter method seems to have further developed in India in the
> 16th century, as a number of borders associated with the atelier of
> 'Abdur Rahim Khan-e Khanan. These elaborate multi-colored borders are
> known as "'Aks-i Haft Rang " or "Seven Colored Stencil" designs. For
> more information, please see the appendix devoted to this subject in
> "Mughal Art and Patronage" by John Seyller.
>
> From my own observations, I think that in the first "impressed"
> method, two papers were pressed around the cut stencils. If you have
> the opportunity to view album amicora, you can see that there are
> reflecting designs. In some, the color "squished" out and the image
> is blurred, whereas in other cases, the impression is incomplete- and
> a range of impression in between.
>
> In addition, I also wonder if these really were executed using
> leather, as described by Barin. It depends on the kind of leather ,
> of course, but most would become to malleable and even expand or
> become stretchy when whetted, so they would not retain their original
> form after cutting. For this reason, I think that a thicker, sized
> paper may have been used, as it would not expand in the manner that
> leather does. The colors are always dyes, not pigments, and almost
> always seem to be a red dye, possibly kirmiz, madder, brasilwood, or
> lotur; a golden yellow dye possibly made from saffron or safflower;
> and a green dye that is may be made from copper verdigris. Of the top
> of my head, i have not seen blue used, likely from indigo used, but it
> may have been that a combination of indigo and yellow was used to make
> the green color.
>
> In connection with this discussion, I have often wondered how we have
> come to use the term"silhouette" for this "impressed" kind of
> stenciled paper. Haemmerle does not appear to use this term, but
> "schablonierens", a term meaning "stencils (If Susanne Krause is
> reading this, please feel free to add your own observations and
> correct me if I'm wrong). Just how we came to call this paper
> "silhouette" is a mystery. I had thought that Rosamond Loring used
> the term, but after checking, I found that she did not. So that makes
> me wonder if possibly Olga Hirsch was the first to employ this term.
> In any case, it is actually a very recent practice, and one that I
> think we should reconsider for several reasons. The term
> "silhouette" is a bit misleading, as the European and American
> traditions of cut paper silhouettes is very common and very distinct;
> it has nothing to do with these Eastern papers. Next, we do have an
> actual term used in Persian and Turkish for this paper, and it doesn't
> translate as "silhouette" at all, but "stencil".
>
> Here are some examples of the "sprinkled" variety:
>
> http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/3-55cd.htm
>
> http://expositions.bnf.fr/splendeurs/grand/5-121ab.htm
>
> The "impressed" or "silhouette" variety
>
> http://classes.bnf.fr/dossisup/grands/138.htm
> http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/048b.htm
>
> The images from the Bibliothèque Nationale de France (both stenciled
> and marbled) have all been published in a few catalogs. Have you been
> able to visit Philip Croom at the AUC Rare Book & Special Collection
> Library? I think they have these books:
>
> "L'art du livre arabe : du manuscrit au livre d'artiste"
> http://worldcat.org/oclc/51722494&referer=brief_results
>
> "Splendeurs persanes : manuscrits du XIIe au XVIIe siècle"
> http://worldcat.org/oclc/38507388&referer=brief_results
>
> "Soliman le Magnifique : [catalogue de l'exposition
> présentée du] 15
> février au 14 mai 1990, Galeries nationales du Grand Palais."
> http://worldcat.org/oclc/22854149&referer=brief_results
>
> Also, there are more examples that had been posted in the Swedish
> National Library site, but they have been removed. You can still see
> the images if you visit www.archives.org and enter these URLs into the
> search box:
>
> http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/eng/marmorerat.htm
> http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/stambok.jpg
> http://www.kb.se/HS/islam/cod_or_52.htm
>
> There is one image of the "pochoir" method online. They are found in
> the borders of one of the stencil-marbled paintings of a "nag" or
> starving horse, that was auctioned at Sotheby's in 2002.
>
> http://www.sothebys.com/app/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=PXPQ
>
> The image is also found in the folder for this group 'Marbled
> Antiquaria at Auction"
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/165b
>
> http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/view/165b?b=1
>
> Finally, here is something very special, just for you Haytham. There
> is an image from the Bibliothèque Nationale of an Arabic and Coptic
> Christian manuscript that uses a similar, Ottoman style border. It is
> very intriguing for many reasons:
>
> http://expositions.bnf.fr/livrarab/grands/076.htm
>
> Whether or not this paper is of actual Masri manufacture is debatable
> though. There is no specific evidence that has come to light to show
> that this method of decorative paper was ever produced in Egypt. The
> paper could have been made elsewhere and imported. Nevertheless,
> There are earlier examples of what may be stenciled leather designs
> used for doublures (internal covers) in Mamluk bookbindings. Some
> have said that these doublures were block-printed, but I have not
> personally observed any sign of impression.
>
> Perhaps this is a topic that you can research more? The Director of
> the Islamic Museum in Cairo told me that a woman at Cairo University
> produced her thesis on Mamluk bookbinding. Unfortunately, I cannot
> find my notes with this information, and I was not able to obtain a
> copy of the book anyway; perhaps you can find it and see if there is
> anything helpful to you? In any case, please let me know the citation
> if you should find it.
>
> Insh'allah hadha mas3dat leek!
>
> m3a salamah,
>
> Jake Benson
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

İSMEK Üsküdar Türk-İslam Sanatları Merkezi Öğrencileri, geçtiğimiz Cumartesi
günü Louvre Müzesi Koleksiyonlarından getirilen "İslam Sanatının 3 Başkenti"
isimli sergiyi gezdiler.

17.03.2008


Sabancı Üniversitesi Sakıp Sabancı Müzesi, Louvre Müzesi dışına hiç çıkmamış
olan, Osmanlı, İran merkezli Safevi ve Hindistan'da Timur'un torunları
tarafından kurulmuş Babür İmparatorluklarının görkemli sanat ürünlerinden oluşan
bir sergi düzenliyor.

Emirgan Atlı Köşk'te açılan serginin önemi, üç önemli İslam Sanatı başkentleri
İstanbul, Isfahan ve Delhi'den günümüze kalan önemli eserlerin bulunmasındadır.

Sergide, Louvre Müzesi'nin benzersiz koleksiyonlarından seçilen 216 eser,
değerli halılar, el yazmaları, çini örnekleri, taş, maden, mücevher ve fildişi
eserlere yansıyan, İslam sanatının farklı coğrafyalardaki gelişimi, ortak payda
ve farklılıkları sunulmaktadır.

İSMEK öğrencileri, Louvre Müzesi Koleksiyonunu gezdikten sonra aynı köşte
bulunan, Sabancı Müzesi hat ve resim koleksiyonlarını gezerek konu hakkında
bilgi aldılar. Türk hat ve resim sanatının önemli eserlerinin bulunduğu
koleksiyonu öğrenciler hayranlıkla gezdiler.

Atlı Köşk'teki müze ziyaretinden sonra öğrenciler, öğretmenleri nezaretinde,
Emirgan Çınaraltı'nda toplanarak boğaz manzarası eşliğinde çay içerek sohbet
ettiler. İSMEK Öğrencileri, bu türlü sanat ve kültür gezilerinin, bilgi ve
kültürlerini arttırmada çok faydalı olduğunu söyleyerek İSMEK'e minnettar
olduklarını belirttiler.

Sergiyle ilgili ayrıntılı bilgi için tıklayınız.
<http://muze.sabanciuniv.edu/exhibition/exhibition.php?lngExhibitionID=65&bytSec\
tionID=1>



Bu yazının ilişkilendirildiği branşlar; Çini
<http://ismek.ibb.gov.tr/portal/brans.asp?BransCode=4> ,  Hat
<http://ismek.ibb.gov.tr/portal/brans.asp?BransCode=1> ,



İSKİ





ISKI
KAĞITHANE

Esin SEVGİN             esevgin@... <mailto:esevgin@...>

tel:
fax:
pager:

3217793 
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3217793&Email=es\
evgin@iski.gov.tr>
3217792
http://ebrusanati.blogcu.com/ 
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=http%3A%2F%2Febr\
usanati%2Eblogcu%2Ecom%2F&Email=esevgin@iski.gov.tr>










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

T.C. Başbakanlık Vakıflar Genel Müdürlüğü '2008 Vakıf Medeniyeti Su Yılı' isimli
Ebru Yarışması düzenliyor ::.



.:: Fuat Başar ve Öğrencilerinin Hazırladığı Âb-ı Hayat Ebru Sergisi 31 Mart - 6
Nisan Tarihleri Arasında Altunizade Kültür Merkezinde ::.



.:: 'Baharda Açan Çiçekler' Ebru Sergisi 1-7 Nisan Tarihleri Arasında Taksim
Sergi Salonunda ::.





.:: İSMEK kursiyerlerini '2010 Avrupa Kültür Başkenti İstanbul' isimli branş
yarışmalarına davet ediyor ::.





İSKİ





ISKI
KAĞITHANE

Esin SEVGİN             esevgin@... <mailto:esevgin@...>

tel:
fax:
pager:

3217793 
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=3217793&Email=es\
evgin@iski.gov.tr>
3217792
http://ebrusanati.blogcu.com/ 
<http://www.plaxo.com/click_to_call?lang=en&src=jj_signature&To=http%3A%2F%2Febr\
usanati%2Eblogcu%2Ecom%2F&Email=esevgin@iski.gov.tr>










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Jake--Thanks for your response. You are an indispensable resource for our
group. I am contacting Hope Mayo about the error.  I must say that I was less
than overwhelmed by the illustrations.  Many were the same as in the previous
edition, only now in full color.

Elinor Eisemann

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you Charles,

A digital prospectus for this book was prepared and is available for
group members to download.  It is available in the "files" section of
the group web site, and is entitled "RevisedWeimannProspectus2007-
lowres.pdf"

This book is still available from Ingrid Weimann.

Jake Benson


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Office <typenut@...> wrote:
>
> Also see and read about the work of the late Christopher Weinmann in
>
> Ink & Gall   Volume V  Number 2
>
> Fine Print  Volume Nine, Number Four
>
> Christopher Weinman   A Tribute
>
>
> charles
> +.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+
> L. A Book Arts, Inc.
> Custom Bindery / Krause Intaglio
> 321 West Torrance Blvd.  Suite A
> Carson, CA 90745
> 310.217.0400
>

Has anyone else purchased this new edition?
Have you found the same printing error in your copy?

In relation to this, has anyone obtained the recently published
Loring recipe book?  If so, do you have any thoughts or impressions?

Thanks,

Jake





--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Eisemann" <geisemann@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Jake--Thanks for your response. You are an indispensable
resource for our group. I am contacting Hope Mayo about the error.  I
must say that I was less than overwhelmed by the illustrations.  Many
were the same as in the previous edition, only now in full color.
>
> Elinor Eisemann
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

hi all
   I want to invite all of you to our marbling exhibition,
   If you join us we'll be very glad
   sincerelly Yeşim Göktepe






---------------------------------
Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo!
Posta'da
http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I've found a digitalized book on the internet, from the Bodleian
Library at Oxford with images of the marbled pages that Laurence
Sterne included on his novel. R. J. Wolfe comments largely this matter
on his book on marbled papers.

But you can see, in the album I've created: "Laurence Sterne -
Tristram Shandy", the way to illuminate spots in marbled papers, if
the reading bores you. It's very funny.

Antonio

Hi Jake,

I have purchased the recipe book ... good for research into Loring's
work and the work of her contemporaries, as it gives the recipes she
(maybe – my own recipes tend to change all the time) used incl. all
their faults and merits. As to using the recipes in one's own studio,
well ... it's like with all personalized recipes. That they are fine
in one studio doesn't say anything at all about the next studio.

Susanne Krause

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Benson" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone else purchased this new edition?
> Have you found the same printing error in your copy?
>
> In relation to this, has anyone obtained the recently published
> Loring recipe book?  If so, do you have any thoughts or impressions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jake
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Eisemann" <geisemann@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Jake--Thanks for your response. You are an indispensable
> resource for our group. I am contacting Hope Mayo about the error.  I
> must say that I was less than overwhelmed by the illustrations.  Many
> were the same as in the previous edition, only now in full color.
> >
> > Elinor Eisemann
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Thanks for posting that, Antonio!

There is one web page at the University of Glasgow that reproduced one
image of the marbled leaf:

http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/exhibns/month/oct2000.html

Did your images come from this article?  Or another source?

http://library.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/citation/s5-XXVII/2/143

Thanks,

Jake

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "avcelemin" <ANVECE@...> wrote:
>
> I've found a digitalized book on the internet, from the Bodleian
> Library at Oxford with images of the marbled pages that Laurence
> Sterne included on his novel. R. J. Wolfe comments largely this matter
> on his book on marbled papers.
>
> But you can see, in the album I've created: "Laurence Sterne -
> Tristram Shandy", the way to illuminate spots in marbled papers, if
> the reading bores you. It's very funny.
>
> Antonio
>

I'm sorry about my message there was not added exhibition file in my message.

yesim goktepe <yesim63@...> wrote:                             hi all
    I want to invite all of you to our marbling exhibition,
    If you join us we'll be very glad
    sincerelly Yeşim Göktepe




  ---------------------------------
  Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
  Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo!
Posta'da
  http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






---------------------------------
Yahoo! kullaniyor musunuz?
Istenmeyen postadan biktiniz mi? Istenmeyen postadan en iyi korunma Yahoo!
Posta'da
http://tr.mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I remember back in 1981 someone found for a few dollars at a used book place,
and original Loring...! Tipped in original samples and all.

So true though, what works in one place doesn't in another.... and I notice,
that the hardest thing sometimes is doing a great copy of one's OWN work! Due to
seasonal changes, humidity, temperature raises and lowerings, even over the
course of a single day can make things work differently too.

All too often, people want a recipe, a formula. People come to a class ready to
take notes.... that's fine, but what they right down, they go home, try that
there, this amount of gall to that amount of paint and nothing works.

Learning to overcome your environment and the weather is key to marbling and I
imagine paste papers too, right Susanne?

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Susanne Krause<mailto:studio@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:47 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Printing Error


   Hi Jake,

   I have purchased the recipe book ... good for research into Loring's
   work and the work of her contemporaries, as it gives the recipes she
   (maybe - my own recipes tend to change all the time) used incl. all
   their faults and merits. As to using the recipes in one's own studio,
   well ... it's like with all personalized recipes. That they are fine
   in one studio doesn't say anything at all about the next studio.

   Susanne Krause

   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "Jake
Benson" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
   >
   > Has anyone else purchased this new edition?
   > Have you found the same printing error in your copy?
   >
   > In relation to this, has anyone obtained the recently published
   > Loring recipe book?  If so, do you have any thoughts or impressions?
   >
   > Thanks,
   >
   > Jake
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "Eisemann"
<geisemann@> wrote:
   > >
   > > Dear Jake--Thanks for your response. You are an indispensable
   > resource for our group. I am contacting Hope Mayo about the error.  I
   > must say that I was less than overwhelmed by the illustrations.  Many
   > were the same as in the previous edition, only now in full color.
   > >
   > > Elinor Eisemann
   > >
   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   > >
   >



   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://books.google.es/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover

That's the link, Jake.


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jake Benson
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 4:52 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Tristram Shandy marbled pages


   Thanks for posting that, Antonio!

   There is one web page at the University of Glasgow that reproduced one
   image of the marbled leaf:

   http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/exhibns/month/oct2000.html

   Did your images come from this article? Or another source?

   http://library.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/citation/s5-XXVII/2/143

   Thanks,

   Jake

   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "avcelemin" <ANVECE@...> wrote:
   >
   > I've found a digitalized book on the internet, from the Bodleian
   > Library at Oxford with images of the marbled pages that Laurence
   > Sterne included on his novel. R. J. Wolfe comments largely this matter
   > on his book on marbled papers.
   >
   > But you can see, in the album I've created: "Laurence Sterne -
   > Tristram Shandy", the way to illuminate spots in marbled papers, if
   > the reading bores you. It's very funny.
   >
   > Antonio
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks Antonio!

The link for the English language version of Googlebooks is

http://books.google.com/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ

Additionally, Feridun kindly alerted me to the fact that the 2nd
german edition of Josef Halfer's "Die Fortschritte der Marmiorkunst"
is also now available on googlebooks:

http://books.google.com/books?id=lS8KAAAAIAAJ

A few of the samples have fortunately been scanned in color.  Not all
of them were, but there are a few more images in a photo album on our
group site, posted a few years ago by Anna Karenina:

<http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/2900>

I have uploaded this to the "Historical marbling Accounts" Folder in
the files section:

<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/files/Historical%20Marbling%20Accounts/>

Also note the addition of "The Manner of marbling Paper and Books"
published by G. Smith in "The Laboratory or, the School of the Arts."
6th edition, 1799.  Elinor Eisemann kindly scanned the images from a
copy at the Linda Hall Library in Kansas City, Missouri, and sent them
to me.  Since I found that reading them was a bit difficult, I further
processed them using OCR software and appended a fully transcribed
text version at the end of the document.

When I get more time, I have a few more texts to upload.

Enjoy!

Jake


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Antonio Vélez Celemín <ANVECE@...> wrote:
>
> http://books.google.es/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover
>
> That's the link, Jake.
>
>

From: fÿfffffcsun onomay [mailto:ebruliterazi@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:21 PM
To: erkutsukriye@...; kamuran; Esin Sevgin
Subject: Fw: (DoSTLaRiN ArAsInDa) Ebru 1





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: fÿfffffcsun onomay [mailto:ebruliterazi@...]
Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 5:21 PM
To: erkutsukriye@...; kamuran; Esin Sevgin
Subject: Fw: (DoSTLaRiN ArAsInDa) Ebru 1





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Iris,

you are so right. The weather is crucial; that's why I avoid to teach
beginners in summer if possible. The lessons to learn about managing
the weather's influence on paper decorating are of the most advantage
to people with experience.
Anyway, there are very few final truths about making decorated paper
... every paper decorator must keep in mind that the opposite, or
anything in between, may also be true.

I always (well, almost always) make notes of whatever I do, sometimes
down to the last drop and half gram and weather and room's climate
etc., sometimes rather cursory. It helps, but it is definitely not
enough. Without hundreds of discarded sheets, patience, pig-headedness
and inquisitiveness, you're nothing.
Then there is your own personality, you're not the same every day.
Kept awake by a horde of cheeky mosquitoes? Got a headache coming?
Your most needed base paper has been used up the day before yesterday
but your supplier lets you down? Can't wait for the night and the
concert ahead? Marrying tomorrow? It shows.
And then a customer comes and wants it copied: You have made that
fabulous red in 2001, I need another 3 sheets! ... Almost as demanding
as copying an old pattern, and you don't have a suitable wheel and
your hands and fingernails are about half the size of the original
maker's, not to mention the fact that he or she has made about 777
sheets of the pattern before. Finding the solution of such a problem
is what I love most.

Susanne Krause



--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> I remember back in 1981 someone found for a few dollars at a used
book place, and original Loring...! Tipped in original samples and all.
>
> So true though, what works in one place doesn't in another.... and I
notice, that the hardest thing sometimes is doing a great copy of
one's OWN work! Due to seasonal changes, humidity, temperature raises
and lowerings, even over the course of a single day can make things
work differently too.
>
> All too often, people want a recipe, a formula. People come to a
class ready to take notes.... that's fine, but what they right down,
they go home, try that there, this amount of gall to that amount of
paint and nothing works.
>
> Learning to overcome your environment and the weather is key to
marbling and I imagine paste papers too, right Susanne?
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Susanne Krause<mailto:studio@...>
>   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:47 AM
>   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Printing Error
>
>
>   Hi Jake,
>
>   I have purchased the recipe book ... good for research into Loring's
>   work and the work of her contemporaries, as it gives the recipes she
>   (maybe - my own recipes tend to change all the time) used incl. all
>   their faults and merits. As to using the recipes in one's own studio,
>   well ... it's like with all personalized recipes. That they are fine
>   in one studio doesn't say anything at all about the next studio.
>
>   Susanne Krause
>
>   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>,
"Jake Benson" <jemiljan@> wrote:
>   >
>   > Has anyone else purchased this new edition?
>   > Have you found the same printing error in your copy?
>   >
>   > In relation to this, has anyone obtained the recently published
>   > Loring recipe book?  If so, do you have any thoughts or impressions?
>   >
>   > Thanks,
>   >
>   > Jake
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > --- In
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "Eisemann"
<geisemann@> wrote:
>   > >
>   > > Dear Jake--Thanks for your response. You are an indispensable
>   > resource for our group. I am contacting Hope Mayo about the
error.  I
>   > must say that I was less than overwhelmed by the illustrations.
  Many
>   > were the same as in the previous edition, only now in full color.
>   > >
>   > > Elinor Eisemann
>   > >
>   > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>   > >
>   >
>
>
>
>   ------------------------------------
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Antonio,
   did you find this digitalized book on the web site of the bodleian library, if
so, how do you search for digitalized books in this web site, becase I couldn`t
find? if not, please tell me where did you find this book?
   thanks alot


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks Antonio I found the link


---------------------------------
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for all that Jake.... remember the Halfer facsimile that  Polly Fox did
with...I think Phoebe Easton?.... is that still floating about?  I do have one,
and also two original Halfers, one in German, one English.... these old books
used to turn up now and then fairly reasonably, can't imagine what they would
cost now. Also Woolnough and Nicholson's would also turn up. The Woolnough I
remember paying what seemed a vast fortune back in the 80s, but worth every
cent. There was also an edition put out by Plough Press with Katherine Davis
doing the original samples, which is beautifully done. And I re-issued
Nicholson's back in the 80s, with 18 rather that the seven original sample
papers.... well, they did describe 18 patterns so I figured why not. I think it
was also Garland that did a Nicholson's but in B&W. And was it Harvard that did
the Loring facsilile in B&W long ago? These books should still be floating about
if you hunt the used book sites or Google them. There are also other great
limited edition marbling books out there, fine press, such as Barry McKay's
work, Patterns & Pigments, I did the original Varieties Of Spanish Marbling for
Bird & Bull, and Chris Weimann did several, so did Richard Wolfe for B&B.
Susanne Martin's new book which some of us participated in recently is just out
and gorgeous, also her paste paper books, and let's not forget Karli Frigge's
work. I am sure I am missing others.... but feel very lucky to have many of
these editions.

And who wants all books to go digital someday, LOL! What treasures.... I'd say
rather, bring back the old ways. Then again, just preaching to the choir here!

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>




   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:25 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] More digitized historical texts about marbling


   thanks Antonio!

   The link for the English language version of Googlebooks is

  
http://books.google.com/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ<http://books.google.com/books?id=s\
S8CAAAAQAAJ>

   Additionally, Feridun kindly alerted me to the fact that the 2nd
   german edition of Josef Halfer's "Die Fortschritte der Marmiorkunst"
   is also now available on googlebooks:

  
http://books.google.com/books?id=lS8KAAAAIAAJ<http://books.google.com/books?id=l\
S8KAAAAIAAJ>

   A few of the samples have fortunately been scanned in color.  Not all
   of them were, but there are a few more images in a photo album on our
   group site, posted a few years ago by Anna Karenina:

  
<http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/2900<http://ph.groups.y\
ahoo.com/group/Marbling/photos/browse/2900>>

   I have uploaded this to the "Historical marbling Accounts" Folder in
   the files section:

  
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/files/Historical%20Marbling%20Accounts/<\
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/files/Historical%20Marbling%20Accounts/>>

   Also note the addition of "The Manner of marbling Paper and Books"
   published by G. Smith in "The Laboratory or, the School of the Arts."
   6th edition, 1799.  Elinor Eisemann kindly scanned the images from a
   copy at the Linda Hall Library in Kansas City, Missouri, and sent them
   to me.  Since I found that reading them was a bit difficult, I further
   processed them using OCR software and appended a fully transcribed
   text version at the end of the document.

   When I get more time, I have a few more texts to upload.

   Enjoy!

   Jake


   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, Antonio
Vélez Celemín <ANVECE@...> wrote:
   >
   >
http://books.google.es/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover<http://books.go\
ogle.es/books?id=sS8CAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover>
   >
   > That's the link, Jake.
   >
   >


   ------------------------------------

   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> If you try it out, let us know how it goes!
>
> Jake Benson
>


I've now done trials for some time, both on Carrageenan and CMC sizes.

In my point of view the CMC seems to work fine - and I have achieved
good results now. I probably made the solutions a little too thick the
first times. The CMC type I use needed an incredible small amount to get
the right viscosity - just 4 or 5 ml (a stroken teaspoon) to 2,5 liters
of water. It must be well mixed with a high speed mixer - and is ready
for use after just 2 - 4 hrs.

Well - since I'm not very experienced in the art of marbling  - don't
put to much in my opinion about this matter. But it seems to work well
for me.

I have tried with these colours lately:

     * Lukas Illu-color (Air brush-ink)
     * Windsor & Newton Acrylic
     * Panduro Hobby Lack (Acrylic)
     * Talens Plakaatverf (Gouache)

So now I'll go on - happy marbling !





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A 1968 advertising poster for Olivetti lettera 32. Grafic design by
Walter Ballmer from Studio Boggeri(Italy).
The image is from the online collection of the Museum of Design Zurich.

http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/code/emuseum.asp?
style=browse¤trecord=1&page=search&profile=objects&searchdesc=walt
er%20ballmer&quicksearch=walter%20ballmer&sessionid=45A6363F-66E6-4ED8-
9AEA-A0B2A8A33A08&action=quicksearch&style=single¤trecord=4

Now, what is the connection between the typewriter and the marbled egg?

All the best,
Renato Crepaldi.

It was the sixtys.No connection needed, man.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Renato,

The link didn't come through intact in my message, so here is the link
to Walter Ballmer's poster
<http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/code/emuseum.asp?style=browse¤t\
record=1&page=search&profile=objectsde&searchdesc=Walter%20Ballmer&quick\
search=Walter%20Ballmer&sessionid=B4CDB73E-DEA4-4401-A82F-7264255D9F94&a\
ction=quicksearch&style=single¤trecord=4>  once again.

Also, here's the direct link to the image
<http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/html/media_enlarged_DE.html>  without
the text.

Jake Benson



--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Renato" <renatocrepaldi808@...> wrote:
>
> A 1968 advertising poster for Olivetti lettera 32. Grafic design by
> Walter Ballmer from Studio Boggeri(Italy).
> The image is from the online collection of the Museum of Design
Zurich.
>
> http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/code/emuseum.asp?
>
style=browse¤trecord=1&page=search&profile=objects&searchdesc=walt
>
er%20ballmer&quicksearch=walter%20ballmer&sessionid=45A6363F-66E6-4ED8-
> 9AEA-A0B2A8A33A08&action=quicksearch&style=single¤trecord=4
>
> Now, what is the connection between the typewriter and the marbled
egg?
>
> All the best,
> Renato Crepaldi.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Those links I posted didn't work correctly either.  Here's a direct
link to the image:

<http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/media/full/16-0478.jpg>

That should work...

Jake

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Jake Benson" <jemiljan@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Renato,
>
> The link didn't come through intact in my message, so here is the link
> to Walter Ballmer's poster
>
<http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/code/emuseum.asp?style=browse¤t\
>
record=1&page=search&profile=objectsde&searchdesc=Walter%20Ballmer&quick\
>
search=Walter%20Ballmer&sessionid=B4CDB73E-DEA4-4401-A82F-7264255D9F94&a\
> ction=quicksearch&style=single¤trecord=4>  once again.
>
> Also, here's the direct link to the image
> <http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/html/media_enlarged_DE.html>  without
> the text.
>
> Jake Benson
>
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Renato" <renatocrepaldi808@> wrote:
> >
> > A 1968 advertising poster for Olivetti lettera 32. Grafic design by
> > Walter Ballmer from Studio Boggeri(Italy).
> > The image is from the online collection of the Museum of Design
> Zurich.
> >
> > http://sammlungen-archive.hgkz.ch/code/emuseum.asp?
> >
> style=browse¤trecord=1&page=search&profile=objects&searchdesc=walt
> >
> er%20ballmer&quicksearch=walter%20ballmer&sessionid=45A6363F-66E6-4ED8-
> > 9AEA-A0B2A8A33A08&action=quicksearch&style=single¤trecord=4
> >
> > Now, what is the connection between the typewriter and the marbled
> egg?
> >
> > All the best,
> > Renato Crepaldi.
> >
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>