Hej Søren,

det er ikke Gustavmarmor, Gustavmarmor er den med spætternes rænder i
kontrastfarver–
or in English: that's not Gustavmarmor, Gustavmarmor is the kind where the
sprinkles have
edges in constrasting colour. The English term for Gustavmarmor is cocoa marbled
paper.
It is not marbled, though, it is made on the workbench like all sprinkled
papers.

The German term used most frequently for the kind of sprinkled paper we are
currently
talking about is 'Achatmarmor', but I do not know the Danish or even English
equivalent.
Can look it up one of these days.

Nick:
For real animal glue, go look at the place where restorers buy their materials.
They are lost
without glue. But take care! There are two kinds of animal glue, made either
from bones or
else from skin. The bones kind hardens much harder and is used predominantly by
furniture restorers, the skin kind (especially the one made from hare's skin and
feet, and
especially if prepared freshly) is finer and not as hard as stones and that's
the kind good
bookbinders have used in books for centuries. Restorers roll their eyes when
they have to
cope with bone glue in a book, it's always additional work and guaranteed to
involve more
loss than skin glue.

Susanne Krause

Hej Susanne,

Du har helt ret!  Det er ikke Gustavmarmor, men agatmarmor?

Thanks, you are right.  It is not Gustavmarmor, but "Agatmarmor"?  It is
also a thin and shiny paper, and treated in the same way as "Gustavmarmor".

The animal glue we used was  in plasticpackages to keep the glue soft and
avoid the glue to harden.  Use it fresh in waterbath or gluepot.  The
temperature must not goes over 60 degree Celsius.

Kind regards

Søren Ibsen

--On 1. august 2007 07:36 +0000 hamburgerbuntpapier_de
<studio@...> wrote:

> Hej Søren,
>
> det er ikke Gustavmarmor, Gustavmarmor er den med spætternes rænder i
kontrastfarver?
> or in English: that's not Gustavmarmor, Gustavmarmor is the kind where
the sprinkles have
> edges in constrasting colour. The English term for Gustavmarmor is cocoa
marbled paper.
> It is not marbled, though, it is made on the workbench like all sprinkled
papers.
>
> The German term used most frequently for the kind of sprinkled paper we
are currently
> talking about is 'Achatmarmor', but I do not know the Danish or even
English equivalent.
> Can look it up one of these days.
>
> Nick:
> For real animal glue, go look at the place where restorers buy their
materials. They are lost
> without glue. But take care! There are two kinds of animal glue, made
either from bones or
> else from skin. The bones kind hardens much harder and is used
predominantly by
> furniture restorers, the skin kind (especially the one made from hare's
skin and feet, and
> especially if prepared freshly) is finer and not as hard as stones and
that's the kind good
> bookbinders have used in books for centuries. Restorers roll their eyes
when they have to
> cope with bone glue in a book, it's always additional work and guaranteed
to involve more
> loss than skin glue.
>
> Susanne Krause
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I did this once with Jan Sabota. We mixed homemade beer with the second color.
Drank some of it too.
Cris Clair Takacs
Membership, GBW
112 Park Avenue, Chardon OH 44024
membership@...
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/gbw


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Members,

I discovered some beautiful Turkish marbling at the following link.
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/abdullahteke/sets/72157594382990587/>

Enjoy.

John Ang

Dear Members,

Below are playlists of marbling videos on youtube that I have compiled.
These playlist are updated whenever new videos are discovered. New
playlist may be added if these list gets to large.

Marbling set 1
<http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=553488A6D9C84837>

Marbling set 2
<http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FDBB5EAF6DA79F1F>


Cheers and enjoy.

John Ang

Nick:
For real animal glue, go look at the place where restorers buy their materials.
They are lost
without glue. But take care! There are two kinds of animal glue, made either
from bones or
else from skin.

  The bones kind hardens much harder and is used predominantly by furniture
restorers,
the skin kind (especially the one made from hare's skin and feet, and especially
if
prepared freshly) is finer and not as hard as stones and that's the kind good
bookbinders have used in books for centuries.

Restorers roll their eyes when they have to cope with bone glue in a book,
it's always additional work and guaranteed to involve more loss than skin glue.

Susanne Krause


thanks Susanne.  It's good to have an idea of what I am searching for....
skin glue is the one for me!  thanks again,  nick

Thanks so much John!  This is really great!  This format has really
explodes, but I hope it will continue to expand and improve as time
goes on.

Jake Benson


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "angchengsiew" <angchengsiew@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Members,
>
> Below are playlists of marbling videos on youtube that I have compiled.
> These playlist are updated whenever new videos are discovered. New
> playlist may be added if these list gets to large.
>
> Marbling set 1
> <http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=553488A6D9C84837>
>
> Marbling set 2
> <http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=FDBB5EAF6DA79F1F>
>
>
> Cheers and enjoy.
>
> John Ang
>

Hi All,

I've added a new folder to the files section entitled "Historical
Marbling Accounts".  It contains the text for the Diderot plates in
French.  I'll be adding other texts as I get time, and invite anyone
else who may be interested to upload similar files.

Historical Marbling Accounts folder on the Yahoo Marbling Group web site
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling/files/Historical%20Marbling%20Ac\
counts/>

Just now, I added another early European text with instructions for
paper marbling, entitled "Perfare la Carta Turchesca Ondata di Diversi
Colori" or "To make the Turkish paper waved with divers colours".  It is
from a 17th c. anonymous Italian manuscript preserved in the University
Library of Padua, No. 922, entitled Ricette Per Far Ogni Sorte Di
Colore.  This text was translated into English by Mary P. Merrifield,
and published in her book:

Original Treatises, dating from the XIIth to XVIIIth centuries on the
arts of painting, in oil, miniature, mosaic, and on glass of gilding,
dyeing, and the preparation of colours and artificial gems; preceded by
a general introduction; with translations, prefaces, and notes. London:
John Murray, 1849.  Vol. 2.  712-17.

Merrifield noted that one section of the text was written in Latin, and
concluded that that information may have been a trade secret.  This
section on marbling is not written in Latin  Does that mean the art was
not considered a secret at that time?  Is it really true or accurate to
say that marblers were historically very secretive?  Or is it just a
nice story that we've come to accept?

Jake Benson






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

TÜRKÝYE ÜSTÜNE OYNANAN OYUNLARDAN BÝRÝ DAHA….



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Would anyone on this know know anything about this forthcoming
publication?  It appears to be a multi- media package; with text in
Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese, and
Spanish

http://www.pepinpress.com/catalogue/view/41

Jake Benson

This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery.  I am not
sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum.  When
beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
does the alum get removed?  Does the paper return to an acid-free
status?  Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers.  I want to
provide accurate information.  Any info?

A little acid goes back on at least with watercolor marbling that uses alum. The
side that is not marbled should still be acid free, that is the side that gets
glued to the book so it should be fine. There is so little acid, the papers I
have tested are so near neutral anyway. Even the old so called acidic papers we
used to work on as recently as a few years ago, before the American paper
industry went haywire shoveling up to 50% calcium carbonate into the papers
because it's cheaper than wood pulp (it's all business, and they get to claim
the paper is acid fee as a selling point), and thereby rendering it useless for
most marbling, that was generally over ph6 on the good papers.

I don't know of anyone who "vigorously" rinses. That could take off some of the
color. Some marblers don't rinse at all. Still they are near neutral when I have
tested them. The old printing papers we used to marble will likely last longer
than we do, and the acid free ones just a little longer.  If it is a concern the
entire paper can be run through a calcium carbonate bath or sprayed with Wei To
or a similar deacidifying spray. The colors will not run.

There is a lot of unnecessary fear due of a teeny bit of acidity. I understand
the desire to rebind good books with all acid free products, but the general
public seems to have an idea these days that if it has even the slightest
acidity it will disintegrate within a few years. There are degrees of acidity. I
do not believe most of my customers feel the need to deacidify my papers or
other marbled paper. In fact I know many who never do it at all and never worry.
The fact that there is a tiny bit seems to terrify people these days. it's not
an either or thing, like it is horrible or it is good. Still they fear it. I
would not worry about it in scrapbooking or crafts, in rebinding an important
book, it would be more of a concern to conservators.

Iris Nevins



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: pktmarble<mailto:pktlivingstones@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:57 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Is acid-free paper still acid-free after alumming?


   This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery.  I am not
   sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum.  When
   beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
   sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
   does the alum get removed?  Does the paper return to an acid-free
   status?  Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
   question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers.  I want to
   provide accurate information.  Any info?




   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello:
  Does anyone know how I'm suppose to warm up my size? My colors expand
and then immediately contract and also my end product has these white
jagged spots throughout. I can see these little voids on the size where
it seems the paints have broken up. Both these problems can be the
result of the size being too cold...so the troubleshooting sections of
the books say. They instruct to warm the size but how?
I need help! I'm trying to make scarves for an upcoming show and
nothing is working out. How to I warm the size (carageenan)without
compromising its thickness?
Thank you, anyone , for your helpp!

Paulette

It could be that your size is too thick? How are you making it? What are you
using for paint, it could be the paints too. You may need more dispersants. If
you are using acrylic if you do not clean the size extra well, maybe double
clean it, every few times (more than with watercolor) it will give jagged spots
and not allow maximum spreading. It could be the brand of paint you are using
too. Not all acrylic or watercolor is the same formula from one brand to
another. So try another make. Your paints too, they may be too thick. Thck paint
doesn't always mean brighter color, sometimes quite the contrary. Water some
down a little and add a little more dispersant, make sure you are making the
size right, clean the size really well, see what happens.

Iris Nevins
www,marblingpaper.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: pauliquann<mailto:pauliquann@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:34 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] Warming Carageenan Size


   Hello:
    Does anyone know how I'm suppose to warm up my size? My colors expand
   and then immediately contract and also my end product has these white
   jagged spots throughout. I can see these little voids on the size where
   it seems the paints have broken up. Both these problems can be the
   result of the size being too cold...so the troubleshooting sections of
   the books say. They instruct to warm the size but how?
   I need help! I'm trying to make scarves for an upcoming show and
   nothing is working out. How to I warm the size (carageenan)without
   compromising its thickness?
   Thank you, anyone , for your helpp!

   Paulette




   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Alum is an alkali, so that would mean that your marbled paper would be
an excellent buffer for any acid environments (ie: leather binding)
and hence be considered conservation-grade paper.

Katherine


>
> This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery.  I am not
> sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum.  When
> beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
> sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
> does the alum get removed?  Does the paper return to an acid-free
> status?  Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
> question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers.  I want to
> provide accurate information.  Any info?
>

Hi Susanne,
How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added to
the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are water
soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
Thanks?
Lokman



----- Original Message ----
From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

Hi Joan,

try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but
determined
buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is decisive
for the
sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again with
very little
additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the
object. It is
not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the sheets,
the
sides have a very different 'pull'.
I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's
pet material) .
Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all
paints). Spray
with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer,
and takes
about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and brush
with a
veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen
cloth (Outside
only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

What a list of second-best ideas.

Susanne Krause

--- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@...> wrote:
>
> Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
> to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
> dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
> simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
> onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
> need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
>
> By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
> where large sheets can be purchased?
>
> "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
> style. . . . . . Joan
>






________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

They did used to grind it into the paint formula. I never tried it. If I want a
glaze I run a bar of paraffin (from the supermarket canning aisle, or with the
jellies) lightly over the paper, then burnish it. The wax is not to coat the
paper as much as to let the burnisher glide. I can get a great shine, though not
as shiny as the machine glazed/polished Victorian papers. I like the hand rubbed
one better personally. I use a small hand held agate with a 1/8" or a little
larger edge, and the edge is about 1 1/2" It is hard work but it shines fast. I
wouldn't do the whole paper, but rather the smaller cut pieces you will be
using. It can hurt your arm or hands after a while!

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Lokman Torun<mailto:lokmantorun@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:09 AM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers


   Hi Susanne,
   How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it is added
to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic while the others are
water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating marbled papers with beeswax?
   Thanks?
   Lokman



   ----- Original Message ----
   From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de
<studio@...<mailto:studio@...>>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers

   Hi Joan,

   try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly but
determined
   buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination is
decisive for the
   sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax them again
with very little
   additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already on the
object. It is
   not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with the
sheets, the
   sides have a very different 'pull'.
   I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.

   Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not Australia's
pet material) .
   Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and with all
paints). Spray
   with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in Australian summer,
and takes
   about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the surface and
brush with a
   veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a soft woolen
cloth (Outside
   only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).

   What a list of second-best ideas.

   Susanne Krause

   --- In Marbling@yahoogroup<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroup> s.com, "sixshort"
<joan@...> wrote:
   >
   > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
   > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
   > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
   > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
   > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
   > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
   >
   > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
   > where large sheets can be purchased?
   >
   > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
   > style. . . . . . Joan
   >






  
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
   Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who
knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
  
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433<http://answers.yahoo.com/d\
ir/?link=list&sid=396545433>

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Katherine,

You are right that Alum used in leather makes it very durable,  but it is
not the same with paper.

The contains of Aluminiumsulphate,  Potassium-aluminiumsulphat (alum)  and
china clay makes the paper selfdestructive.  It hydrolyzes in the paper and
create aluminimhydoxide and sulphuric acid. We have at least 100 years with
paper which in the nearest future need deacicification.   However I don't
think it is very harmful to use alum as a mordant for the color,  if the
paper is acid free with a buffer of Calciumcarbonate and of course free
from lignin.

Kind regards

Søren Ibsen

--On 13. august 2007 03:03 +0000 katherine coddington
<kcoddington@...> wrote:

> Alum is an alkali, so that would mean that your marbled paper would be
> an excellent buffer for any acid environments (ie: leather binding)
> and hence be considered conservation-grade paper.
>
> Katherine
>
>
> >
> > This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery.  I am not
> > sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum.  When
> > beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
> > sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
> > does the alum get removed?  Does the paper return to an acid-free
> > status?  Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
> > question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers.  I want to
> > provide accurate information.  Any info?
> >
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The old papers from 100 years ago were themselves very acidic, and they often
did NOT use alum! At least there is barely any reference to its use as a
mordant. The papers we have used here for decades, even the non-acid free were
very near neutral anyway. Now the paper I use is acid free, or neutral, but it
is a German import. My spplier says they do use calcium carbonate, but they use
a reasonable amount. The American paper industry (and I have it direct from a
friend who works in the CC industry for use in paper) discovered they can
replace up to half the wood pulp or other fiber in paper with CC and it saves a
fortune, and they get to pretend they care so much about making everything acid
free. If CC prices rise drastically someday I'd bet it falls out of such high
use! They scare the public into thinking if they use something that is even
slightly less than neutral or acid free, that their projects, scrapbooks etc.
will crumble in a few months.

Even if you do get the darned stuff to marble, if you hang it to dry, the lack
of other fibers that the CC replaced, it shortens the fibers of the papers and
when you hang them wet, the corners tear off and they fall off the line. Many of
you know the nightmare we went through several years back when the paper
industry discovered that they can shovel tons of CC into the papers.

You can generally also, if worried, get by (if you have decent paper) with alum
solutions much less strong than the usual 1Tbs. to a cup of water. Esp. in
winter, I find I can use as little as that measure to a quart or more. I did a
lot of experimenting with it. The back of the paper will generally stay dry when
I alum too, so I don't imagine there is hardly any seeping through. Personally,
I just find the fears of this pretty overblown. A really important early book, I
would err on the side of caution. We would like it to remain pristine for 300
years and further deacidify it. The old so called acid papers we all used not
that long ago, OK, so maybe without deacidifying they'd last just a few hundred
years. This paper you see today that is crumbling from Victorian times too, BTW,
is usually the acidic wood pulp text blocks, and rarely is the marbling
crumbling... it is generally quite intact.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Søren Ibsen<mailto:soren.ibsen@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 9:01 AM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Is acid-free paper still acid-free after alumming?


   Dear Katherine,

   You are right that Alum used in leather makes it very durable,  but it is
   not the same with paper.

   The contains of Aluminiumsulphate,  Potassium-aluminiumsulphat (alum)  and
   china clay makes the paper selfdestructive.  It hydrolyzes in the paper and
   create aluminimhydoxide and sulphuric acid. We have at least 100 years with
   paper which in the nearest future need deacicification.   However I don't
   think it is very harmful to use alum as a mordant for the color,  if the
   paper is acid free with a buffer of Calciumcarbonate and of course free
   from lignin.

   Kind regards

   Søren Ibsen

   --On 13. august 2007 03:03 +0000 katherine coddington
   <kcoddington@...<mailto:kcoddington@...>> wrote:

   > Alum is an alkali, so that would mean that your marbled paper would be
   > an excellent buffer for any acid environments (ie: leather binding)
   > and hence be considered conservation-grade paper.
   >
   > Katherine
   >
   >
   > >
   > > This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery.  I am not
   > > sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum.  When
   > > beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
   > > sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
   > > does the alum get removed?  Does the paper return to an acid-free
   > > status?  Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
   > > question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers.  I want to
   > > provide accurate information.  Any info?
   > >
   >
   >
   >




   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Much of the problem with the deterioration of paper in the past 150 years can be
attributed to manufacturing issues.  Wood pulp replaced cotton and linen as the
primary fiber source and at that time the wood pulp contained lignins, which
turned out to be destructive to the paper over time.  In addition rosin and even
alum was added to the pulp as sizing in the latter half of the nineteenth
century, both of which, in combination are destructive to paper.  The combined
destructive potential of all these items is what gives 19th century paper its
bad reputation.  Pulp used for paper nowadays is purified ("high alpha
cellulose") and good quality paper, today, will often indicate that it is
"lignin free", and the other two items are no longer used as fillers/sizing. 
The alum used in marbling may slightly alter the pH, but I have never read or
seen that it alone is sufficient to lead to the deterioration of paper.  There
is always the concern that the degradation of alum to sulphuric acid over time
will shorten the life of the paper, but if this is a real issue there are other
mordants that can be used.  Aluminum acetate, although more expensive, is a good
option and one Joseph Halfer felt preferable to Aluminum sulfate or Potassium
aluminum sulfate.  It does work quite well.  Retention agents, which are used in
paper fabrication for holding pigment in the pulp for colored paper, can also be
applied to the surface of the paper for marbling (the process is a little more
difficult than working with alum but also works well).  These agents do not
acidify the paper at all, rather their binding ability is based upon
positive/negative attraction of the pigment to the chemical.  This bonding is
weaker than the chemical bonds occurring with alum, and so the papers have to be
treated a little differently, but they are an option for someone concerned about
the potentially destructive capability of standard alum.

Garrett Dixon
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: pktmarble
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 9:57 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Is acid-free paper still acid-free after alumming?


   This question has surfaced from customers at the gallery. I am not
   sure of the answer & am hoping from expertise in the forum. When
   beginning with acid-free paper for marbling, alumming with aluminum
   sulfate, marbling in a carragheenan size & then vigorouly rinsing,
   does the alum get removed? Does the paper return to an acid-free
   status? Bookbinders, collage artists & even serious scrapbookers
   question the acid-free condition of the marbled papers. I want to
   provide accurate information. Any info?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much for your input. I will try each thing you suggest
and let you the results. I have clean my size (it was fairly new...I
only used it twice without success) and will now try differnt paints.
I've been using jacquard marlbing colors. I used to work with dye-na-
flow paints which have always worked beautifully especially on silk.
But now they're not working...the reason I swithced to jacquard
marbling colore. I've also had a new marbling tray built (out of wood
and thought this might be the problem so cover it with plasict to no
avail).
Thanks again. I'll let you know,
Paulette

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@...> wrote:
>
> It could be that your size is too thick? How are you making it?
What are you using for paint, it could be the paints too. You may
need more dispersants. If you are using acrylic if you do not clean
the size extra well, maybe double clean it, every few times (more
than with watercolor) it will give jagged spots and not allow maximum
spreading. It could be the brand of paint you are using too. Not all
acrylic or watercolor is the same formula from one brand to another.
So try another make. Your paints too, they may be too thick. Thck
paint doesn't always mean brighter color, sometimes quite the
contrary. Water some down a little and add a little more dispersant,
make sure you are making the size right, clean the size really well,
see what happens.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www,marblingpaper.com
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: pauliquann<mailto:pauliquann@...>
>   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:34 AM
>   Subject: [Marbling] Warming Carageenan Size
>
>
>   Hello:
>    Does anyone know how I'm suppose to warm up my size? My colors
expand
>   and then immediately contract and also my end product has these
white
>   jagged spots throughout. I can see these little voids on the size
where
>   it seems the paints have broken up. Both these problems can be
the
>   result of the size being too cold...so the troubleshooting
sections of
>   the books say. They instruct to warm the size but how?
>   I need help! I'm trying to make scarves for an upcoming show and
>   nothing is working out. How to I warm the size (carageenan)
without
>   compromising its thickness?
>   Thank you, anyone , for your helpp!
>
>   Paulette
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Plastic is always better than wood in my opinion. Maybe some of the acrylic
marblers here can advise on the paints out there and how they diulte them or use
them etc. I have had lovely results from the cheap stuff at Walmart called
Ceram-Coat. Not all colors work well, you have to try a basic few i would think.
it's been so long I forgot which I used to use. I didn't dilute them, though
they seem creamy.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: pauliquann<mailto:pauliquann@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 12:37 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Warming Carageenan Size


   Thank you so much for your input. I will try each thing you suggest
   and let you the results. I have clean my size (it was fairly new...I
   only used it twice without success) and will now try differnt paints.
   I've been using jacquard marlbing colors. I used to work with dye-na-
   flow paints which have always worked beautifully especially on silk.
   But now they're not working...the reason I swithced to jacquard
   marbling colore. I've also had a new marbling tray built (out of wood
   and thought this might be the problem so cover it with plasict to no
   avail).
   Thanks again. I'll let you know,
   Paulette

   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
<irisnevins@...> wrote:
   >
   > It could be that your size is too thick? How are you making it?
   What are you using for paint, it could be the paints too. You may
   need more dispersants. If you are using acrylic if you do not clean
   the size extra well, maybe double clean it, every few times (more
   than with watercolor) it will give jagged spots and not allow maximum
   spreading. It could be the brand of paint you are using too. Not all
   acrylic or watercolor is the same formula from one brand to another.
   So try another make. Your paints too, they may be too thick. Thck
   paint doesn't always mean brighter color, sometimes quite the
   contrary. Water some down a little and add a little more dispersant,
   make sure you are making the size right, clean the size really well,
   see what happens.
   >
   > Iris Nevins
   > www,marblingpaper.com
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: pauliquann<mailto:pauliquann<mailto:pauliquann>@...>
   >   To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
   >   Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 11:34 AM
   >   Subject: [Marbling] Warming Carageenan Size
   >
   >
   >   Hello:
   >    Does anyone know how I'm suppose to warm up my size? My colors
   expand
   >   and then immediately contract and also my end product has these
   white
   >   jagged spots throughout. I can see these little voids on the size
   where
   >   it seems the paints have broken up. Both these problems can be
   the
   >   result of the size being too cold...so the troubleshooting
   sections of
   >   the books say. They instruct to warm the size but how?
   >   I need help! I'm trying to make scarves for an upcoming show and
   >   nothing is working out. How to I warm the size (carageenan)
   without
   >   compromising its thickness?
   >   Thank you, anyone , for your helpp!
   >
   >   Paulette
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
   >





   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Everyone,

Don Guyot wrote a two-part article in Ink & Gall:

Guyot, Don. A "Alum and its Use in Paper Marbling. Part 1. Historical
Material." Ink & Gall. Taos, NM: Fresh Ink Press,  Vol. 1, No. 3,
Winter, 1987, pp. 6â€"7, 18.

---. A "Alum and its Use in Paper Marbling. Part 2. The Solution." Ink
& Gall. Taos, NM: Fresh Ink Press, Vol. 1, No. 4, Spring, 1988, pp.
10â€"12. Table.

In it, he suggested that the aluminum Sulfate bonds with Ox Gall and
creates a new molecule, Aluminum Glycholate (Sp?  I'm writing this
from memory).  This resulting compound is Ph neutral, and any sulfate
residuals can be rinsed away.

Here is an excellent article by Irene Brückle (Conservation Program,
State College at Buffalo) on alum sizing.

<http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an17/an17-4/an17-407.html

Dr. Timothy Barret (Iowa Center for the Book) has openly questioned
the tendency to dismiss alum.  In a significant paper that he wrote on
the role of gelatin in paper permanence, he found that a small amount
of alum added to gelatin sizing helped preserve mechanical properties
after accelerated aging tests.

<http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic34-03-002_2.html>

In the above article, Barrett cites in turn a study of traditional
glue and alum mixtures in Japan, known as "dosa".  This was often used
to "waterproof" paper.  While Barrett admits the levels were extremely
high, the aging tests showed sustained mechanical performance.

Alum has been added to sizings for centuries, but how much, and the
method varies a great deal, and can probably affect the resulting
quality.  Mohamed Zakariya uses a lump of alum when making his Turkish
aher solution (beaten egg white external sizing).  He beats the egg
with the lump, and then removes the lump when done.  He is not adding
a powder to the mix.  The little bit of alum imparted is enough to
render the paper waterproof for calligraphy.

Jake Benson

thanks for this refresher course!
Iris nevins
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jake Benson<mailto:jemiljan@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 1:14 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Alum mordanting


   Hello Everyone,

   Don Guyot wrote a two-part article in Ink & Gall:

   Guyot, Don. A "Alum and its Use in Paper Marbling. Part 1. Historical
   Material." Ink & Gall. Taos, NM: Fresh Ink Press,  Vol. 1, No. 3,
   Winter, 1987, pp. 6â?"7, 18.

   ---. A "Alum and its Use in Paper Marbling. Part 2. The Solution." Ink
   & Gall. Taos, NM: Fresh Ink Press, Vol. 1, No. 4, Spring, 1988, pp.
   10â?"12. Table.

   In it, he suggested that the aluminum Sulfate bonds with Ox Gall and
   creates a new molecule, Aluminum Glycholate (Sp?  I'm writing this
   from memory).  This resulting compound is Ph neutral, and any sulfate
   residuals can be rinsed away.

   Here is an excellent article by Irene Brückle (Conservation Program,
   State College at Buffalo) on alum sizing.

  
<http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an17/an17-4/an17-407.html<http://\
palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an17/an17-4/an17-407.html>

   Dr. Timothy Barret (Iowa Center for the Book) has openly questioned
   the tendency to dismiss alum.  In a significant paper that he wrote on
   the role of gelatin in paper permanence, he found that a small amount
   of alum added to gelatin sizing helped preserve mechanical properties
   after accelerated aging tests.

  
<http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic34-03-002_2.html<http://aic.stanford.\
edu/jaic/articles/jaic34-03-002_2.html>>

   In the above article, Barrett cites in turn a study of traditional
   glue and alum mixtures in Japan, known as "dosa".  This was often used
   to "waterproof" paper.  While Barrett admits the levels were extremely
   high, the aging tests showed sustained mechanical performance.

   Alum has been added to sizings for centuries, but how much, and the
   method varies a great deal, and can probably affect the resulting
   quality.  Mohamed Zakariya uses a lump of alum when making his Turkish
   aher solution (beaten egg white external sizing).  He beats the egg
   with the lump, and then removes the lump when done.  He is not adding
   a powder to the mix.  The little bit of alum imparted is enough to
   render the paper waterproof for calligraphy.

   Jake Benson















   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lokman,

For marbling, straight beeswax was never added to marbling pints in
Europe and the US.  It was prepared first by melting it together with
pure soap, which is them known as "saponified wax".  Instructions are
found in several manuals, such as those by Woolnough, Halfer, and
Kinder.  A small amount of powdered saponified wax was then added to
the paints.  I think this can be observed in early 19th marbled sheets
where the color appears to be a very heavy paint layer.  when held up
to the light, the color appears to be very shiny, but the surrounding
paper is quite dull.

Jake Benson


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Lokman Torun <lokmantorun@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Susanne,
> How do you incorporate beeswax into the paints? Do you mean that it
is added to the paints before marbling? One is highly hydrophobic
while the others are water soluble materials? Or do you mean coating
marbled papers with beeswax?
> Thanks?
> Lokman
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de <studio@...>
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:00:01 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] Re: Glazed papers
>
> Hi Joan,
>
> try incorporating beeswax in the paints, give the sheets a friendly
but determined
> buffering when they are dry and out of the press. Your determination
is decisive for the
> sheen. If the users need the paper extra-shiny, tell them to wax
them again with very little
> additional wax, strong pressure and high speed when they are already
on the object. It is
> not a good idea to have much wax on the surface before working with
the sheets, the
> sides have a very different 'pull'.
> I deem max. 1% wax is about the amount that's advisable.
>
> Alternatives: brush with wheat paste (I know, wheat starch is not
Australia's pet material) .
> Brush with methylcellulose 1000, 4% (doesn't work on all papers and
with all paints). Spray
> with shiny film (ugh). Use a glass runner (not advisable in
Australian summer, and takes
> about as long as an agate stone). Strew talcum powder onto the
surface and brush with a
> veryveryvery soft brush like the ones lithographers use, or use a
soft woolen cloth (Outside
> only! Talcum is not the best friend of respiratory organs).
>
> What a list of second-best ideas.
>
> Susanne Krause
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroup s.com, "sixshort" <joan@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello fellow marblers and other paper decorators. Does anyone know how
> > to glaze marbled papers? I don't have a huge agate glazing block
> > dangling from my ceiling right now, and would like to know of a
> > simpler solution, something really easy that can be brushed or sprayed
> > onto the paper. I use Renaissance Microcrystalline wax if the papers
> > need to be sealed with wax, but sometimes I need a shinier finish.
> >
> > By the way, does anyone know where Texoprint paper is manufactured, or
> > where large sheets can be purchased?
> >
> > "So much to learn, so little time" she whines in true Peter Sellers
> > style. . . . . . Joan
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone
who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi,

sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze into a day.

Warming carragheenan size:
Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and wait. Worked
perfectly,
and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc. afterwards. We just
worked
very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one time less.

Incorporating wax:
The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can persuade the
wax to
separate into tiny balls, you're there.
With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with the boiling
water. The
ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a trace, it just
separates from
a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to molecules of
starch. After
drying, you give
the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth, thereby
'flattening' the tiny
balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is protection as well
as the base
for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface stays sticky
in the way bees
way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard surface and
want to do it
with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is a good idea.

For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated into the
paints. What
I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling water and
adding it to the
mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole Lundberg's, try
malty syrup
instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar (read, I
believe, in
Weichelt).

For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a mixture I buy
from a
furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved in pure real
turpentine
oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life ot the
polisher
considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good for the
respratory organs;
to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection, otherwise it
can make you
'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm ball made of
non-pilling
cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it can later be
polished to
just the required
sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in that way,
but I know
peole who do.

To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the machine made sheen
of the
19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved with a stone
hanging
downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being operated by a
pitiable
person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only come close.

Susanne Krause

Thanks Suzanne....with my method I actually do get close to the pre-machine
shine, say 1850 and earlier. My agates are not made for bookbinding. They are
more like a larger worry stone...with a thumb indent to hold easier. the
polishing edge is thin but long, and you hold in your hand and press and rub
very hard. It hurts after a bit. I have also tried Jake's friends alum/egg white
method that brought up a lovely sheen, though not like the machines of Victorian
times. I prefer the softer shine I get with the burnisher and paraffin. I do not
do it for customers, I have trouble enough with my hands hurting with all I do!
It is easy enough for them to do it.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:studio@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:51 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] Warming Carragheenan size / Incorporating wax


   Hi,

   sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze into a
day.

   Warming carragheenan size:
   Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and wait.
Worked perfectly,
   and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc. afterwards. We
just worked
   very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one time less.

   Incorporating wax:
   The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can persuade the
wax to
   separate into tiny balls, you're there.
   With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with the boiling
water. The
   ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a trace, it just
separates from
   a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to molecules of
starch. After
   drying, you give
   the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth, thereby
'flattening' the tiny
   balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is protection as well
as the base
   for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface stays
sticky in the way bees
   way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard surface and
want to do it
   with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is a good
idea.

   For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated into the
paints. What
   I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling water and
adding it to the
   mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole Lundberg's,
try malty syrup
   instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar (read, I
believe, in
   Weichelt).

   For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a mixture I buy
from a
   furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved in pure real
turpentine
   oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life ot the
polisher
   considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good for the
respratory organs;
   to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection, otherwise it
can make you
   'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm ball made
of non-pilling
   cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it can later
be polished to
   just the required
   sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in that way,
but I know
   peole who do.

   To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the machine made
sheen of the
   19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved with a stone
hanging
   downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being operated by a
pitiable
   person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only come close.

   Susanne Krause




   Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi:
I'm just beginning to use Golden Fluid Acrylic and like the results
alot ...IF...they were consistent. Does anyone use them and know if you
mix both water and Gac 900 in a 1:1 ratio with the paint or just the
GAC 900 in a 1:1 ratio with the paint (which seems very liquid)?
Thanks for your input.
Paulette Quann

WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms into
the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming?
Is this for real?
Thanks,
PauliQuann

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
<studio@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze
into a day.
>
> Warming carragheenan size:
> Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and
wait. Worked perfectly,
> and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc.
afterwards. We just worked
> very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one
time less.
>
> Incorporating wax:
> The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can
persuade the wax to
> separate into tiny balls, you're there.
> With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with
the boiling water. The
> ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a
trace, it just separates from
> a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to
molecules of starch. After
> drying, you give
> the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth,
thereby 'flattening' the tiny
> balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is
protection as well as the base
> for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface
stays sticky in the way bees
> way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard
surface and want to do it
> with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is
a good idea.
>
> For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated
into the paints. What
> I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling
water and adding it to the
> mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole
Lundberg's, try malty syrup
> instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar
(read, I believe, in
> Weichelt).
>
> For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a
mixture I buy from a
> furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved
in pure real turpentine
> oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life
ot the polisher
> considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good
for the respratory organs;
> to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection,
otherwise it can make you
> 'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm
ball made of non-pilling
> cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it
can later be polished to
> just the required
> sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in
that way, but I know
> peole who do.
>
> To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the
machine made sheen of the
> 19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved
with a stone hanging
> downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being
operated by a pitiable
> person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only
come close.
>
> Susanne Krause
>

For how long? Until the temperature is right. It works.

Susanne Krause

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "pauliquann" <pauliquann@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> WOW! What a lot of info. So I should immerse my hands and arms into
> the size (for how long) and this will do the trick of warming?
> Is this for real?
> Thanks,
> PauliQuann
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "hamburgerbuntpapier_de"
> <studio@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > sorry for the late reply, but there is only so much you can squeeze
> into a day.
> >
> > Warming carragheenan size:
> > Here is Ole Lundberg's recipe: just put your hands and arms in and
> wait. Worked perfectly,
> > and strangely enough there were no problems with hairs etc.
> afterwards. We just worked
> > very carefully as to cleaning the surface rather once more than one
> time less.
> >
> > Incorporating wax:
> > The very fact that wax is hydrophobe is what we need. If you can
> persuade the wax to
> > separate into tiny balls, you're there.
> > With paste papers it is no problem at all, I just add the wax with
> the boiling water. The
> > ratio of max. 1% is very small. The wax doesn't solve without a
> trace, it just separates from
> > a lump of balls clinging together into single balls clinging to
> molecules of starch. After
> > drying, you give
> > the sheets a firm (but careful) rubbing with a woolen cloth,
> thereby 'flattening' the tiny
> > balls easily and turning them into a minuscule film that is
> protection as well as the base
> > for a slight glazing. If the ratio is too high, the paper's surface
> stays sticky in the way bees
> > way is sticky. Naturally. So if you need a highly glazed and hard
> surface and want to do it
> > with wax, you cannot use pure bees wax. An addition of carnauba is
> a good idea.
> >
> > For marbling, the wax needs to be solved before being incorporated
> into the paints. What
> > I'd try if I were a marbler is solving it in turpentine or boiling
> water and adding it to the
> > mass while the pigment mill is rotating. Or, another one of Ole
> Lundberg's, try malty syrup
> > instead, at a tiny ratio. Or add Blanc Fixe, that is ground felspar
> (read, I believe, in
> > Weichelt).
> >
> > For title papers (they need to be shiny in most cases), I use a
> mixture I buy from a
> > furniture restorer. It comprises of bees wax and carnauba, solved
> in pure real turpentine
> > oil. Comes in tins like old fashioned shoe polish, makes the life
> ot the polisher
> > considerably easier and is very smelly and not particularly good
> for the respratory organs;
> > to be used only in a well aired room or with suitable protection,
> otherwise it can make you
> > 'drunk' or headachy etc. Rubbed on in a very thin layer with a firm
> ball made of non-pilling
> > cloth such as linen or a linen-cotton mix (weaved, not knitted), it
> can later be polished to
> > just the required
> > sheen. I have never accepted orders of full size sheets polished in
> that way, but I know
> > peole who do.
> >
> > To have this clearly understood: nothing can fully match the
> machine made sheen of the
> > 19th century mass produced papers or the special surface achieved
> with a stone hanging
> > downwards from the ceiling in a clever contraption and being
> operated by a pitiable
> > person moving their arms to and fro for hours on end. We can only
> come close.
> >
> > Susanne Krause
> >
>