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  • Category: Paper
  • Founded: Jan 25, 2000
  • Language: English
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#401 From: rondelay@...
Date: Mon Nov 13, 2000 11:35 am
Subject: Re: Supplier(s) of carragheen in Australia
rondelay@...
Send Email Send Email
 
>Can anyone direct me to suppliers of carragheen in Australia?
>
Very difficult.  Batik Oetero of Randwick?  used to supply it, but I
believe (and will stand corrected) this is no longer the case.  With proper
care and storage, it has an excellent shelf life, even in my sub-tropical
conditions.  Therefore I purchase my supplies from the US.


Vi Wilson

#402 From: plaver@...
Date: Tue Nov 14, 2000 4:12 am
Subject: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
plaver@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I have been unable to find a supplier in Sydney - Will's Quills at
Chatswood used to keep it but no longer does owing to the cost.
I am a novice marbeler and am interested to know from the experts why
carragheen gives the best results. I am one of these curious
scientific types you see. I have been wondering if an ordinary agar
would work ie the type you grow bacteria on in microbiology labs. has
anyone tried this?
This group is great, I am learning so much from the experts, thank
you all.
Penny Laver

#403 From: "J Dolphin" <jdolphin@...>
Date: Tue Nov 14, 2000 10:52 am
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
jdolphin@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Please! Can you give me the phone number and address for this store in
Sydney?
Thanks
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: <plaver@...>
To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2000 11:12 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia


> I have been unable to find a supplier in Sydney - Will's Quills at
> Chatswood used to keep it but no longer does owing to the cost.
> I am a novice marbeler and am interested to know from the experts why
> carragheen gives the best results. I am one of these curious
> scientific types you see. I have been wondering if an ordinary agar
> would work ie the type you grow bacteria on in microbiology labs. has
> anyone tried this?
> This group is great, I am learning so much from the experts, thank
> you all.
> Penny Laver
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
>

#404 From: Jan Walker <jwalker@...>
Date: Tue Nov 14, 2000 9:43 pm
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
jwalker@...
Send Email Send Email
 
>why carragheen gives the best results. I am one of these curious
>scientific types you see. I have been wondering if an ordinary agar
>would work ie the type you grow bacteria on in microbiology labs. has
>anyone tried this?
>
>Penny Laver
>

I believe that agar and carragheenan produce their gels by different
mechanisms (physical chemically).  Marbling is affected by many
imponderables, especially the colloidal and surface properties of the size
and the stuff being floated.  So I think that agar is the wrong kind of
starch but heck if you have some from the lab, give it a try.

Richard J. Wolfe has a section in his scholarly work on marbling that
reports on many things that have been tried for the size.  Carragheenan and
methyl cellulose lead the pack.  People who need really fine detail seem to
opt for carragheenan.  (Which it is possible to extract right from the
seaweed on your ocean beach, if you have a handy ocean beach in the right
part of the world.  You want the seaweed Irish Moss, chondrus crispus.  See
the very clear instructions in Anne Chambers' book.)

Regards,
Jan Walker, on a beach by the North Atlantic

#405 From: "Royce Wiles" <roycewiles@...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 10:17 am
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
roycewiles@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hmmm, looks like I'm out of luck finding a local supplier.

Then I need to ask a further question: from where can I buy caragheenan by
mail? Any suggestions for US (or other) mail-order suppliers people have
used successfully? Average pricing?

Thanks for the beachcombing suggestion, I'll have to find out if Irish Moss
washes up on Australian beaches (maybe down south in Tasmania?). I have the
instructions from Anne Chambers' book (at least I have already got some
Ox-gall ready-made, and do not have to follow her instructions to prepare
that stuff).

Royce


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#406 From: Lavinia Adler <laviniaa@...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 1:54 am
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
laviniaa@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Iris Nevins, Decorative Papers
P.O. Box 429
Johnsonburg, NJ  07846
  IrisNevins@...

1-9 lbs.  $23.00/lb.      10 lbs. or more  $21.00/lb.
(pricelist is from 1998)

BookMakers International, Ltd.
6701B Lafayette Ave.
Riverdale Park, MD 20737

Moss (requres cooking)  1 lb. $9.50 ; 2 lbs. $8.75 ; 6 lbs. $8.00  (per
pound)
pre-cooked 1/2 lb. $13.75 ; 2 lbs. $12.50 ; 6 lbs. $10.95
         "

Talas
568 Broadway
New York, NY 10012
talas@...

1/4 lb. $16.88 ; 1/2 lb. $22.50 ; 1 lb. $30.00 ; 5 lbs. $120.00
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#407 From: "J Dolphin" <jdolphin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 1:55 am
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
jdolphin@...
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I must apologize--to you especially--that I do Not have the database set up
that lists ALL the professional marblers and their contact numbers etc. In a
pinch--go into the file sections here--and see what info you can obtain.
There are suppliers on this list I am certain can help you out--and they can
contact you off list--or publicly post their info.
     Now John is over in Singapore--where he gets his supplies might be of
benfit to you, too--so hopefully he will also respond to this post.
     And Yes--to everyone else--I will Really try to get all the info put
together in one file--for future readers looking for assistance!
     Thanks
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Royce Wiles" <roycewiles@...>
To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2000 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia


> Hmmm, looks like I'm out of luck finding a local supplier.
>
> Then I need to ask a further question: from where can I buy caragheenan by
> mail? Any suggestions for US (or other) mail-order suppliers people have
> used successfully? Average pricing?
>
> Thanks for the beachcombing suggestion, I'll have to find out if Irish
Moss
> washes up on Australian beaches (maybe down south in Tasmania?). I have
the
> instructions from Anne Chambers' book (at least I have already got some
> Ox-gall ready-made, and do not have to follow her instructions to prepare
> that stuff).
>
> Royce
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
>

#408 From: "John Ang" <johnacs@...>
Date: Wed Nov 15, 2000 4:39 am
Subject: Re: Re suppliers of carragheen moss in Australia
johnacs@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi,

I got my carrageenan supply from a local company who supplies them in
bulk. Look for "Colloids" or bakery supplies, under the yellow pages.
I must admit I had to do a lot of "finger walking" to find the store.

>     Now John is over in Singapore--where he gets his supplies might
be of
> benfit to you, too--so hopefully he will also respond to this post.



John

#410 From: "Susa Glenn" <sglenn@...>
Date: Tue Nov 21, 2000 3:39 pm
Subject: Re: Newbie
sglenn@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi, Stephanie,
I'm in Texas too. May I suggest Diane Maurer-Mathison's book, The
Ultimate Marbling Handbook (Amazon.com has it) as a good source for
information for learning about marbling. Also, here's a website that
has some good information/instructions for marbling with Golden fluid
acrylics:
http://www.earthguild.com/products/Riffs/wmarble/riffmarb.htm (this
is a long one so use the copy & paste on your computer).

  I think what you bought is supposed to make acrylic paint "flow" or
work easier on canvas and is not related to marbling at all.

Here's the address to Pro Chemical's marbling supplies page. They
sell Methylcel 112 and it will work as a size for your marbling. Just
follow the instructions.
http://www.prochemical.com/marbling_colors.htm

Susa Glenn

- In Marbling@egroups.com, Stephanie Steelman <bsktstef@y...> wrote:
> HI all i am a newbie to marbling and found the group
> yesterday.  I had purchased a Dr Ph Martins kit in
> september and have just started marbling with my son.
> I am  a stamper mom  parrot owner dog owner and am
> constantly finding something else to do.  Anyway I
> have been having trouble with my kit and started
> looking online.  I think the kit uses borax solution.
> I saw some solutions at Michaels that you use with
> paints to make them float.  They were 1.99 each.  I
> bought two different ones.  One is thick like a get
> the other is a solution. This is to use when painting
> on canvas I guess but I thought it may work on the
> surface tension of the water.  It says to use one drop
> per oz of water.  I havent tried it yet but wanted to
> see if any of you had seen it or tried it.  I want to
> play tomorrow and am heading by the camera store for
> the kodak photo flo.  Anyone tried this?  Anyway like
> I said I am really new and any info would be great..  Steph
>
> =====
>
> Stampn Stef,   mom to Jordan, Jackie, Mikey, and Katie
>
> the boss to Einstein, Bronco, kelly, ginger and Coco.
>
> Wife to the Meanest guy in Texas  hahaha
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
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#411 From: "Royce Wiles" <roycewiles@...>
Date: Wed Nov 29, 2000 3:26 am
Subject: Re: Carragheen supplier in Australia
roycewiles@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I am grateful to everyone who responded to my earlier request, there are
some wonderful websites out there. I have at last turned up a supplier of
carragheen in Sydney.

The company is called Batik Oetoro and their website is

www.dyeman.com

Their address is
203 Avoca St, Randwick 2031
ph. 02 9398 6201.
(Mailing address PO Box 324, Coogee 2034).

They sell carragheen at A$54.40 for 500g (professional grade) or A$36.30
(standard grade), prices include GST. They also sell it in 100 gram packets.
Their main business is fabric dyes but the marbling section of their
catalogue is also respectable.

Royce
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#412 From: carolhsur1@...
Date: Thu Nov 30, 2000 1:50 am
Subject: Marbling workshops?
carolhsur1@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Marblers,  I am a hobby marblist and am looking for workshop
opportunities to take part in this fun art form.  I will be glad to
be informed of any - particularly in the West (I am in Santa Monica,
California).
    Happy Holidays, Carolina

#413 From: josegomes2@...
Date: Mon Dec 4, 2000 5:49 pm
Subject: I'm a beginner
josegomes2@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello everybody,
I am new to marbling and this this site is just what I was looking
for
to ask some weird questions which I have so that I can get into
marbling.
By the way,the second thing I want to say is that I have to most
sites
that have given some techniques of marbling which I find very
interesting,and it's almost two months now I have been surfing the
net
only information on marbling and I just found it yesterday but did'nt
have enough time to post a message,now that I did, I would like to
ask
a questiion about the (size) carrageen or carageenan moss,or in
chemical terms sodium alginate etc.
I believe that the size is derived from a sea weed called Irish Moss,
well I work and live here on an remote Island off the coast of the
U.A.E. in the middle of the Persian gulf and some years back I had
noticed a lot of seaweed being washed ashore every winter on  this
tiny island,but then I did'nt even know about marbling till I had
eccess to the internet arts & crafts,anyway What I need to know is it
the sea weed that I can make size with? If so,then do any good
people out there willing to give me some idea on how I can go about
  processing this sea weed to make the size for marbling,I want to
know
this because the readymade size is not available here,infact that's
the only thing that is not available for marbling.
I have many more questions on marbling which I would like to ask you
good people, till next time.
Thanks
Jose

#414 From: IrisNevins <irisnevins@...>
Date: Mon Dec 4, 2000 6:48 pm
Subject: I'm a beginner
irisnevins@...
Send Email Send Email
 
With true dried carrageenan I used to boil a large handful per 2 quarts of
water for about 20 minutes, then strain it. Then add another 2 quarts if
too thick(multiply this for what you will need). Should be like cream
consistency. Most seaweed will not work well though, but try it......

Iris Nevins

#415 From: stamper8@...
Date: Mon Dec 4, 2000 11:27 pm
Subject: marble ink
stamper8@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I am facinated with marbling.  I have been trying to work out the
process for a very long time.  I have seen so many different
approaches to the process that I really am very confused.  I know you
have to have a thick base.  But do you use paint or ink?  I am really
interested in the ink, but I can not seem to find the supplies. I am
not looking for the easy way out, I would like to do some quality
work.  Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated.
Please email my personal box.  stamper8@ bellsouth.com

#416 From: "J Dolphin" <jdolphin@...>
Date: Mon Dec 4, 2000 11:36 pm
Subject: Re: marble ink
jdolphin@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Again--apologies to ALL the list--as i Still haven't made a complete list of
sources to go in the file section here...anyway--
     First off--tell us where you are--then--readers on the list can advise
you of your closest source for getting supplies.
     Check the local library, too--there could be books there for you to
borrow--to help start out.
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: <stamper8@...>
To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: [Marbling] marble ink


> I am facinated with marbling.  I have been trying to work out the
> process for a very long time.  I have seen so many different
> approaches to the process that I really am very confused.  I know you
> have to have a thick base.  But do you use paint or ink?  I am really
> interested in the ink, but I can not seem to find the supplies. I am
> not looking for the easy way out, I would like to do some quality
> work.  Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated.
> Please email my personal box.  stamper8@ bellsouth.com
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
>

#417 From: stamper8@...
Date: Tue Dec 5, 2000 12:39 am
Subject: Re: marble ink
stamper8@...
Send Email Send Email
 
I am in North Carolina, Just outside of Charlotte.  What is the
favorite media for marbling ink or paint.  It seems to me the paint is
just to crunchy.

-- In Marbling@egroups.com, "J Dolphin" <jdolphin@s...> wrote:
> Again--apologies to ALL the list--as i Still haven't made a complete
list of
> sources to go in the file section here...anyway--
>     First off--tell us where you are--then--readers on the list can
advise
> you of your closest source for getting supplies.
>     Check the local library, too--there could be books there for you
to
> borrow--to help start out.
> Jill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <stamper8@b...>
> To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:27 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] marble ink
>
>
> > I am facinated with marbling.  I have been trying to work out the
> > process for a very long time.  I have seen so many different
> > approaches to the process that I really am very confused.  I know
you
> > have to have a thick base.  But do you use paint or ink?  I am
really
> > interested in the ink, but I can not seem to find the supplies. I
am
> > not looking for the easy way out, I would like to do some quality
> > work.  Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated.
> > Please email my personal box.  stamper8@ bellsouth.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
> >

#418 From: "John Ang" <johnacs@...>
Date: Tue Dec 5, 2000 2:49 am
Subject: Marbling places in Melbourne
johnacs@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear List members,

I am planning a holiday trip to Melbourne, Australia in end Jan 2000.
Can anyone recommend any place to visit related to marbling.

Thanks

#419 From: "Laura Sims" <indigostone@...>
Date: Tue Dec 5, 2000 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: Re: marble ink
indigostone@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Stamper8,

Call me.  I'm in Asheville, NC.  828-251-9188

Best,
Laura Sims


>From: stamper8@...
>Reply-To: Marbling@egroups.com
>To: Marbling@egroups.com
>Subject: [Marbling] Re: marble ink
>Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 00:39:21 -0000
>
>I am in North Carolina, Just outside of Charlotte.  What is the
>favorite media for marbling ink or paint.  It seems to me the paint is
>just to crunchy.
>
>-- In Marbling@egroups.com, "J Dolphin" <jdolphin@s...> wrote:
> > Again--apologies to ALL the list--as i Still haven't made a complete
>list of
> > sources to go in the file section here...anyway--
> >     First off--tell us where you are--then--readers on the list can
>advise
> > you of your closest source for getting supplies.
> >     Check the local library, too--there could be books there for you
>to
> > borrow--to help start out.
> > Jill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <stamper8@b...>
> > To: <Marbling@egroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 6:27 PM
> > Subject: [Marbling] marble ink
> >
> >
> > > I am facinated with marbling.  I have been trying to work out the
> > > process for a very long time.  I have seen so many different
> > > approaches to the process that I really am very confused.  I know
>you
> > > have to have a thick base.  But do you use paint or ink?  I am
>really
> > > interested in the ink, but I can not seem to find the supplies. I
>am
> > > not looking for the easy way out, I would like to do some quality
> > > work.  Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated.
> > > Please email my personal box.  stamper8@ bellsouth.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
> > >
>

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#420 From: Jake Benson <jemiljan@...>
Date: Thu Dec 14, 2000 10:04 pm
Subject: Visit to Spain
jemiljan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
A friend of mine will be visiting Spain and Portugal in December and
January.  She is a bookbinder, and is looking for tips about places to
visit, collections etc.  She has enquired among bookbinders, and hasn't
yielded anything, so I now turn to all of you to ask if you may know of
anyone/anything/anyplace, that could be recommended...

Kind Regards,

Jake Benson


BENSONšS HAND BINDERY
Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
Hand Marbled Papers

Jake Benson, Proprietor
1319B Summerville Avenue
Columbia, South Carolina, 29201
803.799.1853
jemiljan@...

#421 From: rondelay@...
Date: Fri Dec 15, 2000 5:17 pm
Subject: Re: Visit to Spain
rondelay@...
Send Email Send Email
 
Whilst not specifically related to bookbinding/marbling, the Calouste
Gulbenkian Museum in Lisbon is well worth a visit.
From their brochure - "The Arts of the Book are represented in the Museum
by some important illuminated manuscripts, most of which came from famous
collections and are attributed to notable illuminators.  Calouste
Gulbenkian formed a splendid library, and the visitor is shown various
examples which include not only the illuminated manuscripts but also
printed books, mainly of French origin, of the 16th to the 20th centuries."

Can't help with opening times for the Museum.

Within the University of Coimbra, (Portugal) there is an amazing 18th
century library which is still in use.  Can't advise about access, as I saw
it as part of an organised tour.

Vi Wilson


At 06:04  14/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
>A friend of mine will be visiting Spain and Portugal in December and
>January.  She is a bookbinder, and is looking for tips about places to
>visit, collections etc.  She has enquired among bookbinders, and hasn't
>yielded anything, so I now turn to all of you to ask if you may know of
>anyone/anything/anyplace, that could be recommended...
>
>Kind Regards,
>
>Jake Benson
>
>

#422 From: Jake Benson <jemiljan@...>
Date: Sat Dec 16, 2000 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 123
jemiljan@...
Send Email Send Email
 
on 12/16/00 8:04 AM, Marbling@egroups.com at Marbling@egroups.com wrote:

>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: Marbling@onelist.com
> Subscribe:    Marbling-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe:  Marbling-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner:   Marbling-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/Marbling
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Visit to Spain
> From: rondelay@...
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 03:17:26 +1000
> From: rondelay@...
> Subject: Re: Visit to Spain
>
> Whilst not specifically related to bookbinding/marbling, the Calouste
> Gulbenkian Museum in Lisbon is well worth a visit.
> From their brochure - "The Arts of the Book are represented in the Museum
> by some important illuminated manuscripts, most of which came from famous
> collections and are attributed to notable illuminators.  Calouste
> Gulbenkian formed a splendid library, and the visitor is shown various
> examples which include not only the illuminated manuscripts but also
> printed books, mainly of French origin, of the 16th to the 20th centuries."
>
> Can't help with opening times for the Museum.
>
> Within the University of Coimbra, (Portugal) there is an amazing 18th
> century library which is still in use.  Can't advise about access, as I saw
> it as part of an organised tour.
>
> Vi Wilson
>
>
> At 06:04  14/12/00 -0400, you wrote:
>> A friend of mine will be visiting Spain and Portugal in December and
>> January.  She is a bookbinder, and is looking for tips about places to
>> visit, collections etc.  She has enquired among bookbinders, and hasn't
>> yielded anything, so I now turn to all of you to ask if you may know of
>> anyone/anything/anyplace, that could be recommended...
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Jake Benson
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
Thanks Vi- We knew about the Gulbenkian, but not about the other library in
Lisbon.  She mentioned something about there being goldbeaters in Lisobon as
well.

Jake

BENSONšS HAND BINDERY
Fine Custom Bookbinding & Conservation
Hand Marbled Papers

Jake Benson, Proprietor
1319B Summerville Avenue
Columbia, South Carolina, 29201
803.799.1853
jemiljan@...

#423 From: Jake Benson <jemiljan@...>
Date: Sat Dec 16, 2000 6:29 pm
Subject: Someone in Columbia SC
jemiljan@...
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I'm terribly sorry about this, but someone had called me here in Columbia SC
that I had met at the Marbler's Gathering in Savage Mill.  She had read my
postings on to this list and then called me, but the power went out and I
lost my messages...

I can't recall your name- but could you give me another try?  Or respond to
the list...

Regards,

Jake

#424 From: sidestreet@...
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:07 am
Subject: Spots
sidestreet@...
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Dear List,

I'm a wannabe marbler and have been experimenting (this after a
20-year hiatus after unseccesful experimenting in the late '70s). I
didn't want to post a question to the list until I had read all (yes,
ALL) previous postings, which I have just completed. John Ang has been
most helpful in answering questions, but I've come up with a problem
that has him stumped.

I'm using water colors on caragheen with properly alumed paper. I
consistently get a row of dark spots along the line of the paper's
first contact with the size. I hold diagonally opposite corners of the
paper and place the middle in first, then lay down the sides. Except
for these spots, everything else goes as normal. This is a little
difficult to describe, so I've posted a sample on the Web. If anyone
would like to have a look and offer suggestions, I'd be most grateful.
The URL is:

http://www.sidestreetbannerworks.com/marble.jpg

I have now started laying the paper down from one edge. This has
transferred the spots to the edge instead of the middle, which makes
more of the paper useable, but the problem persists.

I'd like to thank all those who have made the marbling list a great
success, especially the professional marblers who have been so free
with their information and suggestions.

Best to all,
Mar

#425 From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 2:52 am
Subject: Spots
irisnevins@...
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Those look like air bubbles that are popping when the paper touches down.
Why they appear so consistently in the same area on numerous sheets is a
question......maybe you touch the paper down too fast initially?

IrisNevins

#426 From: Jan Walker <jwalker@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 4:31 am
Subject: Re: Spots
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>
>I'm using water colors on caragheen with properly alumed paper. I
>consistently get a row of dark spots along the line of the paper's
>first contact with the size. I hold diagonally opposite corners of the
>paper and place the middle in first, then lay down the sides. Except
>for these spots, everything else goes as normal.

Hi!  I didn't look at your website but I am familiar with the little line
of darker paint spots that you describe!  I can't remember now exactly what
I finally decided I was doing not right.  But I do remember that the
problem showed up quite consistently with some kinds of paper and not so
much with others.

I was trying various papers made for people doing prints (figuring that
those papers did not contain the same amount of size that is in the
watercolor paper, which resists taking up the alum and paint).  I got a
selection from the local art store:
  - Canson Mi-Teintes (80 lb)
  - Lenox (140lb)
  - Stonehenge White (140 lb)

The Stonehenge paper took color really nicely BUT was really prone to these
dots.  The Canson was only moderate with the dots but I didn't find the
color was as vivid, especially on the textured side of the paper.  The
Lenox was a good compromise.  I see in my notes that I called them
"concentration dots".  I wonder if the paint was somewhat thicker than it
needed to be so that it blobbed where it first grabbed on?

Even if it turns out to be an issue of how you lay down the paper, some
papers are definitely more fussy about this than others.  (And try varying
the sharpness of the angle where the paper first touches the surface?)

Good luck!!
Jan Walker

#427 From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 1:09 pm
Subject: Re: Spots
irisnevins@...
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Looking over the weights of the paper.....The Canson was the least trouble
I'll bet because it was lightest weight. Try something a bit lighter and
more flexible like a 70LB text weight. Local print shops may have some
excess Classic Laid or Classic Linen in these weights they may sell or give
you, they marble very well. Not available in art stores.

In Art stores the Strathmore charcoal papers tend to do well. Usually about
70lb, though not sure. They are nice and light though. You don't want to go
too lightweight or they may buckle or even tear when wet.

INevins

#428 From: sidestreet@...
Date: Fri Dec 22, 2000 7:27 pm
Subject: Spots et al
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Many thanks to all who responded to my spots problem. No difinitive
answer has emerged, so I'll soldier on. If I can finally pinpoint a
solution (or cause) I'll let you know.

I've been using uncoated printing paper, about 70# weight. I have a
good relationship with a local magazine printer and am allowed to go
and peruse their surplus paper pile whenever the urge is upon me, so
I've got lots of different paper in quantity. The paper I've been
experimenting with I'm happy with (once initial alum problems were
solved).

In 1979 my wife Barb and I first went to Britain and Europe. At this
time we were interested in marbling, so made this trip a sort of
marbling quest. It was our goal to meet Sidney Cockerell in England,
Michel Duval in France, and a fellow called (if memory serves)
Gianinni in Italy.

Our first stop was London. The second day we were there we went to
Harrods. Much to our surprise, Gianinni was there at Harrods
demonstrating marbling as part of an Italian-design promotion! I
remember a distinctive odor to his paints, which I now believe to be
alcohol. They were applied with squirt bottles. He proved to be
pretty
uncommunicative about what he was doing.

Next, on to Cambridge to visit Cockerell's. We were privileged to
meet
Sidney Cockerell, his own self. At that time he was in his mid 80s.
He
was a gracious, friendly man with big, bushy eyebrows. He kindly
showed us all his papers and introduced us to his "young" apprentice,
whose name was (I believe) William Chapman (can anyone confirm
this?),
a fellow probably in his mid 60s. He, also, was very friendly, and
allowed us to stand by the tank and watch and take pictures as he
made
several sheets of beautifully marbled paper. He used a grid-like
apparatus to apply the paint so that each sheet would be as much like
the last as possible. We left happy, with several sheets of Cockerell
paper tucked under our collective arm.

The biggest adventure, though, was when we went to visit Michel
Duval.
He lived in a little town in France called Liancourt. We'd never
heard
of this place. Like the young idiots we were, we decided it was best
not to call, but just to show up on his doorstep. We went to the Gare
du Nord in Paris to see if they could help us get there. They
consulted books and maps and carefully instructed us on which trains
to take and where to change.

Several hours (and trains) later we arrived at a tiny rural station
that bore the name Liancourt. The train departed and the chickens
resumed grazing between the rails. The deserted station was in the
middle of nowhere. We knocked on the stationmaster's door and were
admitted by the young station agent who, fortunately, had a bit of
English. He explained to us that the station actually served two
towns, each of which could be seen in the far distance in opposite
directions. We explained why we were there and showed him Michel
Duval's address, which we had obtained from a New York paper house.
He
looked at it and smiled and told us we were in the wrong place. There
were two towns by the same name and we had come to the wrong one!

At that point we didn't know what to do. The next train was not for
several hours and it was a long, cold walk into either of the two
distant towns. Our busy station agent, sensing that he might be stuck
with two stranded Americans for the rest of the day, got on the
telephone and called Michel Duval. After a brief conversation in
rapid-fire French, he hung up and said, "He's coming to get you!" He
told us it wasn't far -- only about 15 kilometers. (In fact, it was
closer to 80.)

We stood uncomfortably around the cold station for the next hour in
great trepidation, not knowing what to expect. Here was this (to us)
famous Frenchman, driving halfway across the continent to rescue two
strange foreigners, for some unknown purpose.

At last he arrived, along with his wife, a standard poodle, and the
smallest car we'd ever seen. As he entered the station, the agent
gestured to us and said, "Voila."

We immediately asked him if he spoke English. He did not -- not a
word. I spoke no French, but Barb had a little, along with a Berlitz
book. We all piled into the car, Michel, Barb, and the dog in the
back
seat, I and his wife in front, and we set off across the picturesque
French countryside. Michel navigated from behind using a huge map and
his wife (whose name I have forgotten in the mists of time) drove
through tiny villages at breakneck speed. Once on the right road, and
Barb having extracted her Berlitz book from beneath the dog, we were
finally able to make him understand that we had come to visit him in
order to see his beautiful marbled papers. After that, it was smooth
sailing.

We finally arrived at his old stone house and workshop. He showed us
his papers and also where he made them. He used oil-based paints.
Then
we went up to the house and sat down for drinks. His whole house was
decoratd in marbled papers -- cabinet doors, lamp shades, and dozens
of other applications. He brought out his dictionary and Barb brought
out hers, and there was some real communication. He was very
interested in Sidney Cockerell, whom he'd never met, and was
surprised
to learn how old he was.

After drinks, back down to the shop, where we selected a variety of
papers to buy, and were made a gift of a few more. Then his wife
drove
us to the (proper) railway station, made certain we knew which train
to catch back to Paris, gave Barb a kiss on both cheeks, and was
gone.

This adventure, in retrospect, was the highlight of our entire trip.
I
was saddened to read in an earlier posting that Michel Duval had
passed away some years ago.

Anyway, sorry for this long

#429 From: "Susan Lightcap" <slightcap@...>
Date: Sat Dec 23, 2000 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: Digest Number 126
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What a delicious set of small stories about marbling adventures from our
spotted sidestreet.  Thanks for sharing your adventures in American
sincerity and chutzpah!

Happy holidays, everyone.

Susan Lightcap

#430 From: Jake Benson <jemiljan@...>
Date: Sat Dec 23, 2000 6:12 pm
Subject: William Chapman
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You are right.  William Chapman was the man who executed most of the marbled
papers for Cockerell.  What a wonderful trip you had!

Jake Benson

#431 From: sidestreet@...
Date: Wed Dec 27, 2000 12:58 am
Subject: Spots update
sidestreet@...
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Regarding the line of dark spots I was experiencing on my papers, Iris
Nevins suggested that it looked like a row of burst bubbles and that I
was somehow creating these bubbles when I applied paper to size.

After some additional experimenting, I believe that she is correct,
and that the bubbles (spots) have to do with the speed at which the
paper is applied (slower is better). I've been having much better luck
lately, so thank you Iris.

Ma

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