Greetings everyone,

Peggy Skycraft will be presenting tat the coming Guild of bookworkers standards
sesssion
in Portland Oregon, Oct 26-30th

for more info, please visit:

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/gbw/standards.shtml

Here is the session description.  This is likely already filled, but anyone
interested may be
able to contact the standards coordinator Nancy Lev-Alexander for more
information.


Traditional Marbling on Paper, Cloth & Leather
Using modern materials, acclaimed marbler Peggy Skycraft
will demonstrate techniques for producing traditional patterns
on paper, cloth and leather. The presentation will cover
ground pigments and  techniques for lining cloth and
protecting leather after marbling. Slides of the presenter’s
work will accompany the demonstration.

Peggy Skycraft has been a self-employed decorative paper
producer for years. Formal study at the Chicago Art Institute
in subjects such as color theory, and the working characteristics
of materials, helped to develop many of the fundamental
aspects of her work. Skycraft Papers offers marbled
papers, handmade decorative papers, bookbinding papers and
supplies such as oil pastels invented by the presenter. Information
about Peggy Skycraft and Skycraft Papers can be seen
at www.skycraft.com/default.html

Greetings everyone,

Here are a two of the more unusual items featuring marbled papers
coming up at auction at Christie' later this month.  Be sure to cut and
paste all of the link between the brackets.  Then click on the image to
view a larger one.  My personal favorite is the revolving bookstand...

enjoy!
Jake Benson

A VELLUM PONY SKIN AND MARBLE PAPER DECORATED CHEST
   THE CHEST 19TH CENTURY AND LATER DECORATED BY ANGUS MCBEAN
   Adapted from a section of a Victorian chest, with two short and one
long drawer

<http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?
sid=&intObjectID=4560775&SE=CMWCAT03+90485+%2D1822877263+&QR=M+1+4+Aqc00
00900+79332++Aqc0000900+&entry=marbled+paper&T=Lot&SU=1&RQ=False&AN=5>

A REGENCY MAHOGANY, ROSEWOOD AND EBONISED FOUR-TIER TRIPOD BOOKSTAND
   EARLY 19TH CENTURY, PROBABLY SCOTTISH
   With circular revolving graduating tiers, each with book-spine
divisions and marbled paper-covered interior, with globe finial, the
table section with four simulated drawers, one plain part ash-lined
drawer and one writing-drawer with an ink-drawer, on a turned baluster
column and hipped downswept legs with brass paw caps and castors, the
handles replaced

<http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/search/LotDetail.asp?
sid=&intObjectID=4562530&SE=CMWCAT03+90485+%2D1822877263+&QR=M+1+1+Aqc00
00900+79332++Aqc0000900+&entry=marbled+paper&T=Lot&SU=1&RQ=False&AN=2>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Has anyone tried using syringes or pipettes insted of droppers to disperse the
color? I want
to try to be more accurate but i wonder if the pigments will block up more
precise tools. I
have read about people using needles but having to move really fast, would
syringes provide
more controll? I'm working with waterbased colors. I was also wondering if
anyone keeps a
marbling blog? personally I can't even keep a journal but there are a lot of
printmakers doing
blogs and sharing their experiences and frustrations with the media in that
manner, it looks
interesting.
~Melinda Cross

Thank you Jake for the heads up; I doubt I'd have noticed THE ORIGINS OF VALUE
otherwise.
A pretty fascinating book aside from the marbling interest.
Have you gotten a chance to check the authors' reference to Franklin's PAPERS?
The
arguments they put forward for the English origin of the wove paper and resist
marbling
strike me as a bit overstretched. I've not examined one of the Loan notes in
person but from
reproductions I don't see anything about them to support the claim of
exceptionally high
quality, rarity, or expense.
It would be most curious if Franklin, having (according to Dard Hunter)
introduced Paris to
wove paper in 1777, had to smuggle it into France a few years later! And why
would Franklin
not have seen to its making and marbling in France and then later, for his
experimental
American money bills, Stateside? I'm hoping that you can set me straight on
this.
Now if only there were some way to get your talk for those of us unable to
attend. Again my
thanks and all best to you, James

Hi Melinda,

Yes, I've used pipettes (the small plastic ones available from John Neal) with
much success.  They are especially useful for putting consecutive dots of color
one on top of the other as you can put the color exactly where you need it.  I
marble mostly with acrylics and the plastic pipettes work just fine, you are
able to squeeze out a single drop or many drops.

d. guffey
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: athena_2547
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2005 6:24 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] alternative tools


   Has anyone tried using syringes or pipettes insted of droppers to disperse the
color? I want
   to try to be more accurate but i wonder if the pigments will block up more
precise tools. I
   have read about people using needles but having to move really fast, would
syringes provide
   more controll? I'm working with waterbased colors. I was also wondering if
anyone keeps a
   marbling blog? personally I can't even keep a journal but there are a lot of
printmakers doing
   blogs and sharing their experiences and frustrations with the media in that
manner, it looks
   interesting.
   ~Melinda Cross






   Yahoo! Groups Links










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear marblers,
as I am slowly working through the notes I made during my visit in the Olga
Hirsch
Collection, here is something I wrote down for those among you with access to a
library
and at least basic knowledge of German:
In the collection I found a reference to "Allgemeiner Anzeiger für
Buchbindereien",
Stuttgart Februar 1961, containing an article by Franz Balcárek on chemical
additions to
marbling paints. I don't know who Franz Balcárek might be, but as I am no
marbler...

Susanne Krause

try this link:

http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an07/an07-4/an07-401.html<http://p\
alimpsest.stanford.edu/byorg/abbey/an/an07/an07-4/an07-401.html>
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: hamburgerbuntpapier_de<mailto:hamburgerbuntpapier@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Friday, September 09, 2005 10:49 AM
   Subject: [Marbling] Chemicals for marbling


   Dear marblers,
   as I am slowly working through the notes I made during my visit in the Olga
Hirsch
   Collection, here is something I wrote down for those among you with access to
a library
   and at least basic knowledge of German:
   In the collection I found a reference to "Allgemeiner Anzeiger für
Buchbindereien",
   Stuttgart Februar 1961, containing an article by Franz Balcárek on chemical
additions to
   marbling paints. I don't know who Franz Balcárek might be, but as I am no
marbler...

   Susanne Krause






   Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Roycroft Book-Arts Weekend

When: Friday - Sunday Oct 14 - 16, 2005
Where: Roycroft Campus Coppershop South Grove at Main Street East
Aurora NY

About: The Roycroft Crafts community of Elbert Hubbard circa 1896-1915
produced astonishing amounts of hand crafted items that have become
highly
collectable and highly regarded. The Roycroft Campus Corporation
presents a
weekend workshop series which allows participants to work as artisans
did
100 years ago.

A collaborative workshop series will take participants through all
facets of
book production. Participants will work on components of one of three
books
throughout the weekend. Workshops include: Papermaking, paper
decoration,
hand set type, hand printing, printmaking, illumination, and various
binding
techniques. Each participant will take home new skills in the book arts
as
well as a copy of one of the three books. These will be the first
Roycroft
books to be made at the Campus in over 60 years! Participants will
select
one of 3 tracks and follow the workshops outlines toward the final book.
Each track is limited to 12 participants

Instructors include: Tom Bojanowski, Rachael Hetzel, Richard Kegler,
Brian
Maloney, Lynne McElhaney, Kyle Schelsinger, Peter Sowiski.

Cost: The cost for the weekend is $250 including all materials, cocktail
reception on Friday and lunch on Saturday. Accommodations are limited,
please inquire for options.

For more information visit:
http://www.roycroftcampuscorporation.com/courses.htm

To register for these courses, please contact Christine Peters at the
Roycroft Campus Corporation: cpeters408@....
Or call (716) 655-5108 or (716) 655-0261.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jim,

It turns out that we don't have Vol. 30 of the Papers of Benjamin Franklin here
at USC.
Hence I have to order it through ILL.  Yet I think you are asking a lot of very
good
questions.
or if it was simply that "paper" , meaning the wove paper was smuggled, before
it was
marbled.  the papers will hopefully have an answer to that if they are explicit
or not.  I
think the paper may have been smuggled and then specially marbled in Paris
(perhaps a
special comission by Franklin of the successor to the marbling firm featured in
the
Encyclopedie of Diderot & d'Alembert?) then printed at Passy by Franklin before
they were
presented to the governent.

The marbling is not an adhered strip of paper but directly marbled to the center
of a long
rectangular sheet, and blocked off likely using another piece of paper on the
right and left
halves.  So the marbling is integral to the sheet that the loan was printed on. 
Then it was
cut in an irregular manner into two halves that could be proven to positively
match.  I
wonder if marbling is French Marbling on English paper.  this treatment s so
unusual, I
have  ahrd time thinking it was done in London to order in that manner.  Also
the pattern
on the loan seems more like the papers seen in France at that time.

As to whether the marbling on the bill notes is native manufacture, who knows? 
It will
take a lot of study and research.  The marbling is used in a different manner,
and variant
patterns are observed that are distinct from the loans, something the authors of
the book
seem to have failed to observe.

In the past we have tended to lump the production of the loans together with the
bill
notes, but now I wonder if the loans were very specifically conjured up by
Franklin at
Passy...  which led to some of the bill notes produced in a similar manner
stateside.  One
bill note featuring a chevron pattern was printed by Benjamin Bache, Franklin's
grandson.
Others are not so explicit, so he may not have printed them all, but it has
seemed likely,
given the circumstances.  Aside from the papers and patterns used for the notes,
another
feature that could be looked into is Franklin's penchant for designing the type
for these
projects.  Franklins use of small tree leaves in the printing process as a
security device is
also remarkable.  One wonders if a note combining marbling together with the
leaves weer
ever produced.

I have never inspected of the bill notes or the loans in person, only the images
in Wolfe's
book.  Those bills and the loan are kept at

http://www.amphilsoc.org/library/

Has anyone on the list seen these items firsthand and care to add to the
discussion?

Another billnote is up for sale at Denly's in Boston, which I posted a few
months back.

http://www.denlys.com/inventory/viewimage.asp?ID=CNT612

As is so often the case, this publication may bring up more questions than
answers, but it
is still really nice to see the attention paid to the subject at all, and VERY
full-page color
images published.

Jake


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "jthandbook" <jthandbook@y...> wrote:
> Thank you Jake for the heads up; I doubt I'd have noticed THE ORIGINS OF VALUE
otherwise.
> A pretty fascinating book aside from the marbling interest.
> Have you gotten a chance to check the authors' reference to Franklin's PAPERS?
The
> arguments they put forward for the English origin of the wove paper and resist
marbling
> strike me as a bit overstretched. I've not examined one of the Loan notes in
person but
from reproductions I don't see anything about them to support the claim of
exceptionally
high quality, rarity, or expense.
> It would be most curious if Franklin, having (according to Dard Hunter)
introduced Paris
to  wove paper in 1777, had to smuggle it into France a few years later! And why
would
Franklin not have seen to its making and marbling in France and then later, for
his
experimental American money bills, Stateside? I'm hoping that you can set me
straight on
this.

> Now if only there were some way to get your talk for those of us unable to
attend. Again
my  thanks and all best to you, James

Hello all... as it turns out the marbled Loan Notes produced by Franklin at
Passy and held by
the American Philosophical Society in Philadelphia are part of the touring
exhibition being put
together for Franklin's 300th anniversary next year. To see them in person,
information and
your closest venue can be found online at benfranklin300.org.
I have also learned that the Johannot papermakers at Annonay France were
producing wove
paper no later that 1778 and that by 1781 their paper was awarded a gold medal
by the King.
It is known that Franklin used laid paper produced by Johannot at his press at
Passy, why not
the wove? It seems a forensic analysis of the paper has not been done but is
needed to
answer the question of its origin.
Best, James

Hello everyone,

I have posted an extra copy of Antika Magazine up for auction on
eBay. The issue is
Number 14, May 1986 and it features an article on Turkish ebru
marbling in both English
and Turkish.  The cover features an example of ebru found in a copy
of Fuzuli's Hadikat us
Süeda dated to 1596.  The article was written by Isik Yazan, the
owner of the
manuscript.  He attributes the ebru to "Shebek" who is mentioned
posthoumously in the
Ottoman Technical account Tertib Risale-i Ebri.  The issue also
features an article on
ottoman murakka albums.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6979458635

Happy bidding!

Jake Benson

Hello fellow paper decorators,
   Some years back we had much discussion about marbling handmade
papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
surface remains, but this can be every effective.

Just another thing to file away in your brain!
     Happy marbling, Joan Ajala

Thanks.....what is the spray and who makes it? Is it an Australian brand?

nice of you to share that. I get students who bring in these papers they
made...they are so proud of them....then the insist on marbling them and always
look so upset at the results. They can't imagine how you get a great result on
commercial paper....they think it must of course be better on their special
paper. I try to explain ahead about the fibers being too loose etc.

iris nevins
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: sixshort<mailto:joan@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:25 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Marbling handmade paper


   Hello fellow paper decorators,
     Some years back we had much discussion about marbling handmade
   papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
   trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
   with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
   it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
   handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
   I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
   leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
   surface remains, but this can be every effective.

   Just another thing to file away in your brain!
       Happy marbling, Joan Ajala






   Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Joan - A local art supply store here in Santa Fe is closing it's doors and
had a sale on papers.I just bought some Indian handmades to try to figure out
the problem. As always though, my own handmades marble like a dream, so it is
not the fault of handmade paper in general. Stay tuned! tom

-----Original Message-----
From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 24 Sep 2005 11:16:56 -0000
Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 981



There are 2 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

       1. Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay
            From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
       2. Marbling handmade paper
            From: "sixshort" <joan@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
    Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:19:58 -0000
    From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@...>
Subject: Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay

Hello everyone,

I have posted an extra copy of Antika Magazine up for auction on
eBay. The issue is
Number 14, May 1986 and it features an article on Turkish ebru
marbling in both English
and Turkish.  The cover features an example of ebru found in a copy
of Fuzuli's Hadikat us
Süeda dated to 1596.  The article was written by Isik Yazan, the
owner of the
manuscript.  He attributes the ebru to "Shebek" who is mentioned
posthoumously in the
Ottoman Technical account Tertib Risale-i Ebri.  The issue also
features an article on
ottoman murakka albums.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6979458635

Happy bidding!

Jake Benson




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
    Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:25:45 -0000
    From: "sixshort" <joan@...>
Subject: Marbling handmade paper

Hello fellow paper decorators,
   Some years back we had much discussion about marbling handmade
papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
surface remains, but this can be every effective.

Just another thing to file away in your brain!
     Happy marbling, Joan Ajala




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A local art supply store here in Santa Fe is closing it's doors >>


which one please? Not The Artisan, I hope! I'll be making a trip there the
end of October.....

Thanks!
Legs

Learn the rules so you know how to break them properly

http://www.picturetrail.com/queenoftexas



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Iris,  You are amazing.  You answer every email or message on the
spot.  I am impressed.

The spray I use is a repositioning adhesive spray.  The two brands
that I have tried are Helmar Crystal Kote (Matt)  and Ozone Safe Spray
Adhesive for permanent and repositionable mounting.  Any art supply
shop will have a number of similar sprays, as they are always being
used by artists.  I have found no difference between the cheap and
expensive brands, but would use the best quality for what I hope would
be fine work.

Are you up to any new things in marbling, or new discoveries, or
writing any new books?  I have been spending much time lately on
calligraphic voids, experimenting with marbling techniques as well as
masking and painting before marbling to create areas for calligraphic
text.

  Do you know of any books or articles which describe the work of
others in this field?

All the best,   Joan

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "irisnevins" <irisnevins@v...> wrote:
> Thanks.....what is the spray and who makes it? Is it an Australian
brand?
>
> nice of you to share that. I get students who bring in these papers
they made...they are so proud of them....then the insist on marbling
them and always look so upset at the results. They can't imagine how
you get a great result on commercial paper....they think it must of
course be better on their special paper. I try to explain ahead about
the fibers being too loose etc.
>
> iris nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: sixshort<mailto:joan@m...>
>   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:25 PM
>   Subject: [Marbling] Marbling handmade paper
>
>
>   Hello fellow paper decorators,
>     Some years back we had much discusion about marbling handmade
>   papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
>   trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
>   with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
>   it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
>   handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
>   I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
>   leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
>   surface remains, but this can be every effective.
>
>   Just another thing to file away in your brain!
>       Happy marbling, Joan Ajala
>
>
>
>
>
>
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Tom, Good to hear from you.  What type of paint do you use?  I
have only tried watercolours from Colophon and from Iris Nevins, as
well as gouache.  Apparently your papers don't need any special
preparation - is that right?  I would love to be able to marble my
papers without all this fuss.  Joan

-- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, leech541@a... wrote:
> Dear Joan - A local art supply store here in Santa Fe is closing
it's doors and had a sale on papers.I just bought some Indian
handmades to try to figure out the problem. As always though, my own
handmades marble like a dream, so it is not the fault of handmade
paper in general. Stay tuned! tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: 24 Sep 2005 11:16:56 -0000
> Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 981
>
>
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
>       1. Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay
>            From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@b...>
>       2. Marbling handmade paper
>            From: "sixshort" <joan@m...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:19:58 -0000
>    From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@b...>
> Subject: Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have posted an extra copy of Antika Magazine up for auction on
> eBay. The issue is
> Number 14, May 1986 and it features an article on Turkish ebru
> marbling in both English
> and Turkish.  The cover features an example of ebru found in a copy
> of Fuzuli's Hadikat us
> Süeda dated to 1596.  The article was written by Isik Yazan, the
> owner of the
> manuscript.  He attributes the ebru to "Shebek" who is mentioned
> posthoumously in the
> Ottoman Technical account Tertib Risale-i Ebri.  The issue also
> features an article on
> ottoman murakka albums.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6979458635
>
> Happy bidding!
>
> Jake Benson
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
>    Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:25:45 -0000
>    From: "sixshort" <joan@m...>
> Subject: Marbling handmade paper
>
> Hello fellow paper decorators,
>   Some years back we had much discussion about marbling handmade
> papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
> trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
> with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
> it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
> handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
> I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
> leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
> surface remains, but this can be every effective.
>
> Just another thing to file away in your brain!
>     Happy marbling, Joan Ajala
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

thanks.... sigh...I wish I had more time to play with marbling. My efforts have
been going into completing the solo mostly Celtic guitar CD. I think it's about
done, needs mastering, pressing etc. Should be out in a few months. After that I
will CLEAN MY HOUSE! Then try to find some new marbling discoveries!! LOL...are
there any left????

I referred someone in Australia to you not long ago, I can't remember who it was
now.

iris
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: sixshort<mailto:joan@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:18 PM
   Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling handmade paper


   Hi Iris,  You are amazing.  You answer every email or message on the
   spot.  I am impressed.

   The spray I use is a repositioning adhesive spray.  The two brands
   that I have tried are Helmar Crystal Kote (Matt)  and Ozone Safe Spray
   Adhesive for permanent and repositionable mounting.  Any art supply
   shop will have a number of similar sprays, as they are always being
   used by artists.  I have found no difference between the cheap and
   expensive brands, but would use the best quality for what I hope would
   be fine work.

   Are you up to any new things in marbling, or new discoveries, or
   writing any new books?  I have been spending much time lately on
   calligraphic voids, experimenting with marbling techniques as well as
   masking and painting before marbling to create areas for calligraphic
   text.

    Do you know of any books or articles which describe the work of
   others in this field?

   All the best,   Joan

   --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>, "irisnevins"
<irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v>...> wrote:
   > Thanks.....what is the spray and who makes it? Is it an Australian
   brand?
   >
   > nice of you to share that. I get students who bring in these papers
   they made...they are so proud of them....then the insist on marbling
   them and always look so upset at the results. They can't imagine how
   you get a great result on commercial paper....they think it must of
   course be better on their special paper. I try to explain ahead about
   the fibers being too loose etc.
   >
   > iris nevins
   >
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com\
<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>
   >
   >
   >
   >   ----- Original Message -----
   >   From: sixshort<mailto:joan@m<mailto:joan@m>...>
   >   To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
   >   Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:25 PM
   >   Subject: [Marbling] Marbling handmade paper
   >
   >
   >   Hello fellow paper decorators,
   >     Some years back we had much discusion about marbling handmade
   >   papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
   >   trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
   >   with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
   >   it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
   >   handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
   >   I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
   >   leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
   >   surface remains, but this can be every effective.
   >
   >   Just another thing to file away in your brain!
   >       Happy marbling, Joan Ajala
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >   Yahoo! Groups Links
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







   Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just an additional comment from another papermaker - I, too, marble my
own handmade papers and have never had any problems like that (I use
mainly Golden Fluid Acrylics, but have used other commercial acrylics as
well with the same good results). (Hi, Tom)
Monita Mahoney
On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 22:22:35 -0000 "sixshort" <joan@...>
writes:
> Dear Tom, Good to hear from you.  What type of paint do you use?  I
> have only tried watercolours from Colophon and from Iris Nevins, as
> well as gouache.  Apparently your papers don't need any special
> preparation - is that right?  I would love to be able to marble my
> papers without all this fuss.  Joan
>
> -- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, leech541@a... wrote:
> > Dear Joan - A local art supply store here in Santa Fe is closing
> it's doors and had a sale on papers.I just bought some Indian
> handmades to try to figure out the problem. As always though, my
> own
> handmades marble like a dream, so it is not the fault of handmade
> paper in general. Stay tuned! tom
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: 24 Sep 2005 11:16:56 -0000
> > Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 981
> >
> >
> >
> > There are 2 messages in this issue.
> >
> > Topics in this digest:
> >
> >       1. Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay
> >            From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@b...>
> >       2. Marbling handmade paper
> >            From: "sixshort" <joan@m...>
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 1
> >    Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 20:19:58 -0000
> >    From: "Jake Benson" <handbindery@b...>
> > Subject: Issue of ANITKA magazine featuring ebru for sale on eBay
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> >
> > I have posted an extra copy of Antika Magazine up for auction on
> > eBay. The issue is
> > Number 14, May 1986 and it features an article on Turkish ebru
> > marbling in both English
> > and Turkish.  The cover features an example of ebru found in a
> copy
> > of Fuzuli's Hadikat us
> > Süeda dated to 1596.  The article was written by Isik Yazan, the
> > owner of the
> > manuscript.  He attributes the ebru to "Shebek" who is mentioned
> > posthoumously in the
> > Ottoman Technical account Tertib Risale-i Ebri.  The issue also
> > features an article on
> > ottoman murakka albums.
> >
> > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6979458635
> >
> > Happy bidding!
> >
> > Jake Benson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> > Message: 2
> >    Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2005 02:25:45 -0000
> >    From: "sixshort" <joan@m...>
> > Subject: Marbling handmade paper
> >
> > Hello fellow paper decorators,
> >   Some years back we had much discussion about marbling handmade
> > papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After
> many
> > trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the
> paper
> > with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry,
> flatten
> > it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure
> cotton
> > handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy
> voids.
> > I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
> > leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven,
> textured
> > surface remains, but this can be every effective.
> >
> > Just another thing to file away in your brain!
> >     Happy marbling, Joan Ajala
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your
> home page
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/tnDrlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->

>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

oops...Joan, I thought I was replying to you in a personal email!! Whew...didn't
say anything bad at least! Sorry everyone!!
iris
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: irisnevins<mailto:irisnevins@...>
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 8:46 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Re: Marbling handmade paper


   thanks.... sigh...I wish I had more time to play with marbling. My efforts
have been going into completing the solo mostly Celtic guitar CD. I think it's
about done, needs mastering, pressing etc. Should be out in a few months. After
that I will CLEAN MY HOUSE! Then try to find some new marbling discoveries!!
LOL...are there any left????

   I referred someone in Australia to you not long ago, I can't remember who it
was now.

   iris
     ----- Original Message -----
     From:
sixshort<mailto:joan@...<mailto:joan@...>>
     To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>
     Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:18 PM
     Subject: [Marbling] Re: Marbling handmade paper


     Hi Iris,  You are amazing.  You answer every email or message on the
     spot.  I am impressed.

     The spray I use is a repositioning adhesive spray.  The two brands
     that I have tried are Helmar Crystal Kote (Matt)  and Ozone Safe Spray
     Adhesive for permanent and repositionable mounting.  Any art supply
     shop will have a number of similar sprays, as they are always being
     used by artists.  I have found no difference between the cheap and
     expensive brands, but would use the best quality for what I hope would
     be fine work.

     Are you up to any new things in marbling, or new discoveries, or
     writing any new books?  I have been spending much time lately on
     calligraphic voids, experimenting with marbling techniques as well as
     masking and painting before marbling to create areas for calligraphic
     text.

      Do you know of any books or articles which describe the work of
     others in this field?

     All the best,   Joan

     --- In
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com>>, "irisnevins"
<irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v<mailto:irisnevins@v>>...>
wrote:
     > Thanks.....what is the spray and who makes it? Is it an Australian
     brand?
     >
     > nice of you to share that. I get students who bring in these papers
     they made...they are so proud of them....then the insist on marbling
     them and always look so upset at the results. They can't imagine how
     you get a great result on commercial paper....they think it must of
     course be better on their special paper. I try to explain ahead about
     the fibers being too loose etc.
     >
     > iris nevins
     >
www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com\
<http://www.marblingpaper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingp\
aper.com/<http://www.marblingpaper.com<http://www.marblingpaper.com/>>>
     >
     >
     >
     >   ----- Original Message -----
     >   From:
sixshort<mailto:joan@m<mailto:joan@m<mailto:joan@m<mailto:joan@m>>...>
     >   To:
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:\
Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Marbling@yahoogr\
oups.com>>>
     >   Sent: Friday, September 23, 2005 10:25 PM
     >   Subject: [Marbling] Marbling handmade paper
     >
     >
     >   Hello fellow paper decorators,
     >     Some years back we had much discusion about marbling handmade
     >   papers, with much input from Jake Benson and Tom Leech.  After many
     >   trials I have finally found something that works.  I spray the paper
     >   with a matt finishing spray, alum the paper and allow to dry, flatten
     >   it then marble.  This works even with the notorious Indian pure cotton
     >   handmade papers, which usually produce those blotchy, raggedy voids.
     >   I found that an overmarbling also works quite well, but can still
     >   leave the occasional void.  The problem of a slightly uneven, textured
     >   surface remains, but this can be every effective.
     >
     >   Just another thing to file away in your brain!
     >       Happy marbling, Joan Ajala
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >   Yahoo! Groups Links
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     >
     > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







     Yahoo! Groups Links








   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





   Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oops!  I made a very bad mistake, saying that I use repositioning
spray for handmade papers! That would make a terrible mess.  I meant
to say an artists' fixative matt spray, which lightly seals the surface.

The repositioning spray which has lodged in my brain is for attaching
masking paper before marbling.  I have been using it for the past
week, and it has obviously addled my senses.

Thanks for the comments, Monita.  I haven't tried acrylics for my
papers - the acrylics available in Australia are not pleasant to work
with, except for fabric.  Will keep it in mind next time I get my
acrylics out.      Joan

to all marblers.    I am trying to get general information on marbling
history in order to make a lecture  on marbling.  I have books by patty
schlicker and and ann chambers,  but they have very little information  and
are ten to fifteen yeasrs old.
      the info that I have  got out the yahjoo marbling group is sporatic and
contradicxtory.
    the web has a list of  about fifty books on marbling.  does anyone know
which one gives the most information on marbling history?  tomas DÁquin

I put together a presentation on the history of marbling a few years ago and
most of my information came from Ink & Gall magazine (sigh, miss it so much)
and the internet.  Unfortunately, I had a hard drive go bad, so I don't have
the bibliography anymore, but try googling [marbling history Turkey] and you
should get some places to start.

Lucinda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tomas,

There is no one single book that is really "up to date", as various
people are still continually exploring evidence from different regions.
    Our recent discussion of the marbled loans designed by Ben Franklin
is an example of how we are continually reviewing and exploring this
subject here in this group.  While there are some contradictions , the
archives of this list now contain records of a number of discussions
that we have had on various facets of history, some maybe more useful
than others.

I also agree that what can be found on the internet is often highly
inaccurate and contradictory.  Publications such as technical manuals
offer a different snippet or glimpse of historical marbling.  The small
manual published by gabriel Grünebaum is useful for the reproductions
of the plates about marbling from the Encyclopedie Diderot  et
d'Alembert.  Einen Miura has written one book that has wonderful images
of European marbled patterns.  He had been preparing a new book about
Japanese decorative papers now for some time.

For the last society of marbling annual, I wrote an article about
marbling in East Asia.  www.marbling.org which contains many links to
images of early suminagashi on the internet.  There are a number of
books on Turkish ebru that offer a few images of historical marbling,
but some of the information is now out of date.  Despite this I would
also say that there is no one single book that effectively describes
Islamic marbling in more general terms, as most publications focus only
on Istanbul and not other regions such as Iran, India, and Central
Asia.

One reference work that is very good for European and American history
that you should like to see is by Richard Wolfe.  It is now out of
print, but there are copies listed on half.com

http://half.ebay.com/cat/buy/prod.cgi?cpid=1442289&pr=999661

Wolfe, Richard J. Marbled Paper its History, Techniques, and Patterns.
Philadelphia: University of Pensylvania Press, 1990  ISBN: 0-81228-1888

There are other wonderful books, yet the majority are unfortunately
produced only as INCREDIBLY expensive limited editions for collectors
and institutions, not your everyday marblers.  Oak Knoll Press in
Delware, Barry McKay Press in Oxford and Bird & Bull Press in
Pennsylvania have produced magnificent and yet extremely expensive
books about marbling history.  Generally they can only be consulted by
spending a small personal fortune or by visiting a good rare book
library that keeps such a collection.

Out of all of these I highly recommend:

McKay, Barry (Editor) MARBLING METHODS AND RECEIPTS FROM FOUR CENTURIES
WITH OTHER INSTRUCTIONS USEFUL TO BOOKBINDERS  Oxford: The Plough
Press, 1990.   This was reprinted by Oak Knoll.
http://www.oakknoll.com/



> to all marblers.    I am trying to get general information on marbling
> history in order to make a lecture  on marbling.  I have books by patty
> schlicker and and ann chambers,  but they have very little information
>  and
> are ten to fifteen yeasrs old.
>      the info that I have  got out the yahjoo marbling group is
> sporatic and
> contradicxtory.   the web has a list of  about fifty books on
> marbling.  does anyone know
> which one gives the most information on marbling history?  Tomas Daquin

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Joan thanks for telling us about this.  We have a products here made by DOW
called
Krylon.  It is an acrylic resin very similar to a product called B-72 that is
used by
conservators.  It is dispersed in a fairly toxic cocktail of solvents that you
don't want to
breathe for great lengths of time, if at all.

Just to be clear, do you spray the upper side of the sheet that you are aluming?
or are you
spraying the back side of the sheet?  Both sides?  It would have teh effect of
making the
paper more impervious to water, preventing teh swelling of teh fibers, and
therefore the
bubbles that you had trouble with.

Someone said to me they were having problems with a new batch of Arches
text-wove,
that is now seems thinner than before.  I have had this trouble with some types
of papaers
that had a little recycled content as well.  Maybe a quick spray would help to
stabilize the
sheet?

thanks joan!


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "sixshort" <joan@m...> wrote:
> Oops!  I made a very bad mistake, saying that I use repositioning
> spray for handmade papers! That would make a terrible mess.  I meant
> to say an artists' fixative matt spray, which lightly seals the surface.
>
> The repositioning spray which has lodged in my brain is for attaching
> masking paper before marbling.  I have been using it for the past
> week, and it has obviously addled my senses.
>
> Thanks for the comments, Monita.  I haven't tried acrylics for my
> papers - the acrylics available in Australia are not pleasant to work
> with, except for fabric.  Will keep it in mind next time I get my
> acrylics out.      Joan

Hi everyone,



I am a new member of this group. I am interested in marbling. Last year I took a
course for 8 months on marbling and I realized that marbling (or ebru as we say
in Turkey) is not an art forming with just paint and brush. But it made with
one's own spirit and enthusiasm. It reflects the feelings and emotions to the
water. It is said that old masters of ebru could understand which mood the pupil
had by looking at the paper he did.



I am happy to see that there are people who love marbling, which is a tradional
Turkish art,not only in Turkey but also in other countries. I believe I will
learn a lot of thing from you.



I want to share a web link about marbling. It is Alparslan Babaoglu's site. He
is one of the great masters of marbling. He explains the history of marbling,
materials and other things. And there is also a gallery. I hope you enjoy it.



http://www.geleneksel-ebru.com/english/eng.htm





Aygul Ucar



---------------------------------
Yahoo! for Good
  Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much for the link to this fascinating site.  I too, am
new to this art, and believe that even if we don't do things in the
traditional way, it is important to learn about it, to understand
where it came from, and to know the history of it.  Thank you again.

Katherine




--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Aygul Ucar <aygucar@y...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I am a new member of this group. I am interested in marbling. Last
year I took a course for 8 months on marbling and I realized that
marbling (or ebru as we say in Turkey) is not an art forming with just
paint and brush. But it made with one's own spirit and enthusiasm. It
reflects the feelings and emotions to the water. It is said that old
masters of ebru could understand which mood the pupil had by looking
at the paper he did.
>
> I am happy to see that there are people who love marbling, which is
a tradional Turkish art,not only in Turkey but also in other
countries. I believe I will learn a lot of thing from you.
>
> I want to share a web link about marbling. It is Alparslan
Babaoglu's site. He is one of the great masters of marbling. He
explains the history of marbling, materials and other things. And
there is also a gallery. I hope you enjoy it.
>
> http://www.geleneksel-ebru.com/english/eng.htm
>
> Aygul Ucar
>

Hi....I am a beginning marbler of fabric.  I have
mixed my carageenan size abt.five times up to now.
That was in the summer.  I few days ago, I mixed it
like a did the other times, but I can.t get the paint
to spread.  and much of it just sinks.

I have looked in the two books I have, and tried
everything they suggested, which was thinning paint,
adding dispersant to paint, warming up size with warm
water.  nothing helps.

I guess I will start over, but I don't want to make
the same mistake again.  Can anyone help me??

I am working outside. Is it just too cold?  I live in
a high desert climate where temperature goes from 20
in morning to 80 in afternoon.

Thanks.  I have enjoyed reading posts on this list.

Judi Doud
S. Central Ore.



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
http://mail.yahoo.com

> Hi....I am a beginning marbler of fabric.  I have
> mixed my carageenan size abt.five times up to now.
> That was in the summer.  I few days ago, I mixed it
> like a did the other times, but I can.t get the paint
> to spread.  and much of it just sinks.
>
> I have looked in the two books I have, and tried
> everything they suggested, which was thinning paint,
> adding dispersant to paint, warming up size with warm
> water.  nothing helps.
>
> I guess I will start over, but I don't want to make
> the same mistake again.  Can anyone help me??
>
> I am working outside. Is it just too cold?  I live in
> a high desert climate where temperature goes from 20
> in morning to 80 in afternoon.
>
> Thanks.  I have enjoyed reading posts on this list.
>
> Judi Doud
> S. Central Ore.
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
>
> Art and design school
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+and+design+school&w1=Art+and+design+s
> chool&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic+art+de
> sign+program&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=uWDJRAXOqXT3tQmBp-
> YlNw> Art design class
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+class&w1=Art+and+design+school
> &w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic+art+design+
> program&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=VjtldNeYTfGeDp0E9kRQIQ>
> Art design degree
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design+degree&w1=Art+and+design+schoo
> l&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic+art+design
> +program&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=09Vc9QgJu8rNv-EadbJumA
> >
> Art design
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Art+design&w1=Art+and+design+school&w2=Ar
> t+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic+art+design+progra
> m&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=es3DG2C5N-JWCOV13NKCdA>
> Graphic art design program
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Graphic+art+design+program&w1=Art+and+des
> ign+school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic+a
> rt+design+program&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=RJYLeqzlgZSBi
> s69iCfixw> School of graphic art design
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=School+of+graphic+art+design&w1=Art+and+d
> esign+school&w2=Art+design+class&w3=Art+design+degree&w4=Art+design&w5=Graphic
> +art+design+program&w6=School+of+graphic+art+design&c=6&s=154&.sig=ok-C6jEPeOd
> 5new-5gYJiQ>
>
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> *  Visit your group "Marbling <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Marbling> " on
> the web.
> *
> *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> *  Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:Marbling-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
> *
> *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>
>
>

Hi,  There are many factors and none of them the same for everyone!  But, I
do think the temperature is your problem.  My tray has a cold corner which
no matter what order I lay the paints...nothing spread.  So, for years I ran
an electric oil heater under that corner to solve the problem.   I never
could get really good results being outside...too many variables.  Good
Luck,  Gail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
My name is flowers, or at least thats what I go by online and off.
No, my mom didn't name me flowers, my sons named me flowergurl4eva,
because of my garden.  I like paper and anything that has to do with
paper arts.  Have taken one marbling class and found it to be
relaxing.  I particularly like the Suminagashi, and would eventually
like to learn some of the styles I see.  I am quite fascinated by the
Peacock effect in marbling, and one day I hope to be able to learn how
that is done.

My question is about ink.  I have read that floating ink on water the
best ink to use is Pelikan brand.  Is this a fact?  What I don't know
is if I should dilute this in any way.  Can someone advise me on this
please?  I tried Higgins, speedball, and a few other inks.  They
actually looked like they were twirling in the water and then the ink
sunk.


Thanks,
flowers