> Also be warned, many "silky" womens' robes are made from this.....I love
> them in the summer, they feel so silky and cool.....but what to we tend to
> do first thing in the AM? Turn on the stove to boil water or make coffee
> .....the sleeves can drape into the flame...I have electric, but I quickly
> singed/melted a cuff, luckily it wasn't an open flame. This stuff should
> maybe be looked at instead of worn.
>
> Iris Nevins
>
> Very true.  Iım glad you werenıt badly burned.  A cotton slip was the only
> thing that saved me from terrible burns to the back of my legs while wearing
> an acetate skirt that caught fire from  being too close to a fireplace  Just
> look at it in small yardages is a good idea.....no drapes!
>
>
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You Know ladies,I've found you to be quite negative.The stuff I made clothes
from is "wedding material" and I don,t make children's clothes from it. It does
not burn easily as the "silky from the acetates.  Any way it was just
experimenting.But when I,ve Asked about luminescent paints SEVERAL TIMES.I get
no help.In fact I,ve had no response to anything I,ve inquired about,except
this.  "totally bummed" with this group Gretchen

irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Also be warned, many "silky"
womens' robes are made from this.....I love
them in the summer, they feel so silky and cool.....but what to we tend to
do first thing in the AM? Turn on the stove to boil water or make coffee
.....the sleeves can drape into the flame...I have electric, but I quickly
singed/melted a cuff, luckily it wasn't an open flame. This stuff should
maybe be looked at instead of worn.

Iris Nevins


Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>
> I believe there is a federal law against making childrenıs garment with
this
> fabric.  At least I know that childrenıs sleepwear cannot be made with
this
> stuff.  That is, if the fabric you are using is acetate .  I still donıt
know
> what ³acrylic² satin is. I  meant to refer to the type of burns that you
can
> get from it as nasty.  Be careful, donıt work with it in a drafty room by
> candlelight!
>
> Well Gail,this nasty material as you interpreted,works great streched,and
on
> alot of things. I had one little girl thrilled with her new "marbled"
> polyester bellie button pants
> gretchen
> Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote: > Hello HH and Iris,
>> > A question.  Just what is ³acrylic² satin?  Most web sites refer me to
>> types
>> > of paint, or, otherwise give no information on the properties of
acrylic or
>> > synthetic satin?  Are you referring to that nasty, flammable melts
into
>> your
>> > skin stuff that some people like to pass off as silk?  Gail
>> >
>> > Welcome to paper hell......LOL! I am finding that almost nothing works
>> > anymore. It's a real problem. And that synthetic satin is wonderful,
it has
>> > zero snob appeal, it is not silk but sure is nice.
>> >
>> > Iris Nevins
>> >
>> > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>>>> >> > <


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> You Know ladies,I've found you to be quite negative.The stuff I made clothes
> from is "wedding material" and I don,t make children's clothes from it. It
> does not burn easily as the "silky from the acetates.  Any way it was just
> experimenting.But when I,ve Asked about luminescent paints SEVERAL TIMES.I get
> no help.In fact I,ve had no response to anything I,ve inquired about,except
> this.  "totally bummed" with this group Gretchen
>
> irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Also be warned, many "silky"
> womens' robes are made from this.....I love
> them in the summer, they feel so silky and cool.....but what to we tend to
> do first thing in the AM? Turn on the stove to boil water or make coffee
> .....the sleeves can drape into the flame...I have electric, but I quickly
> singed/melted a cuff, luckily it wasn't an open flame. This stuff should
> maybe be looked at instead of worn.
>
> Iris Nevins
>
>
> Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > I believe there is a federal law against making childrenıs garment with
> this
>> > fabric.  At least I know that childrenıs sleepwear cannot be made with
> this
>> > stuff.  That is, if the fabric you are using is acetate .  I still donıt
> know
>> > what ³acrylic² satin is. I  meant to refer to the type of burns that you
> can
>> > get from it as nasty.  Be careful, donıt work with it in a drafty room by
>> > candlelight!
>> >
>> > Well Gail,this nasty material as you interpreted,works great streched,and
> on
>> > alot of things. I had one little girl thrilled with her new "marbled"
>> > polyester bellie button pants
>> > gretchen
>> > Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote: > Hello HH and Iris,
>>>> >> > A question.  Just what is ³acrylic² satin?  Most web sites refer me to
>>> >> types
>>>> >> > of paint, or, otherwise give no information on the properties of
> acrylic or
>>>> >> > synthetic satin?  Are you referring to that nasty, flammable melts
> into
>>> >> your
>>>> >> > skin stuff that some people like to pass off as silk?  Gail
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Welcome to paper hell......LOL! I am finding that almost nothing works
>>>> >> > anymore. It's a real problem. And that synthetic satin is wonderful,
> it has
>>>> >> > zero snob appeal, it is not silk but sure is nice.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Iris Nevins
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> > <
>
>
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> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>
>
Well, Iım still asking what is the ³ synthetic/polyester/whatever satin² you
are using.  If I had any helpful information on paints right now, I would
certainly pass it on.  However, all I can relay is that I am not happy with
just about every brand presently available.  Maybe, the paint and the paper
people have a conspiracy against marblers!  Audios.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sorry you are disappointed....I didn't comment on lum. paints because I
don't know of any, nor do I know anyone who uses them. All I can say is to
try the acrylic ones if they make them.
iris nevins

Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>
> You Know ladies,I've found you to be quite negative.The stuff I made
clothes
> from is "wedding material" and I don,t make children's clothes from it.
It
> does not burn easily as the "silky from the acetates.  Any way it was
just
> experimenting.But when I,ve Asked about luminescent paints SEVERAL
TIMES.I get
> no help.In fact I,ve had no response to anything I,ve inquired
about,except
> this.  "totally bummed" with this group Gretchen<

Greetings,

Sound the trumpets, ring the bells!!!  The slide sets
and CDs from the IMG 2002 Waterworks Exhibition were
mailed Priority today.  Those who ordered them should
be getting them within 3 days.  Jake and I are doing
the happy dance!

Jake will be emailing the group with more info later.

Best to all,
Laura Sims
Indigo Stone Marbling Studio



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Hi List,

This is my 2 cents worth on fabric marbling.  For many years I marbled silk
scarves with excellent results using acrylic paints on a carragehean size.  I
used the same alum solution as for marbling paper, submerging the scarves in it
and then hanging to dry (not necessary to pre wash, as there is no noticeable
sizing in the silk).  After they dried I ironed them smooth prior to marbling.

Silk, taffeta, and satin all marble beautifully, as the natural sheen of the
fabric comes through.  I was not successful marbling 100% cotton, and somewhat
successful with a 60/40 polyester/cotton blend.  A textile artist explained to
me that cotton "sucks" up all of the color and doesn't reflect it back, whereas
silk reflects the color.  I don't know how scientific that is, but it made sense
to me.  The marbled cotton looked beautiful wet, as soon as it dried it was
"dead."

I have never used reactive dyes, but I think that is the way marbling is done
successfully on cotton.  I have no experience there, maybe someone else on this
list has used dyes.

One hint I can give, is to use colored silk, and for paints use black, white,
grey, and a little of whatever color the material is.  The marbled pattern looks
great and the silk material shines though.  I stopped using white silk once I
found how much better color silk looked.

To build a marbling tank just for the scarves, my husband nailed an open
rectangle (using 4 lengths of lath) slightly larger than the 9"x45" scarf. He
then nailed another rectangle just larger than the first so that one sat inside
the other (like a rectangle shaped embroidery hoop).  Put a sheet plastic
between the two rectangles and you have a marbling tank (the inside rectangle
holds the plastic taut).

After all is said and done, I still prefer marbling paper to marbling fabric.

d. guffey


From: PatV [mailto:fiberbrat@...]
Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 4:59 PM
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Marbling] fabric?


Hello,  Is paper marbling a thread right now or is it the main focus of the
list.  I am a rank amateur dabbling in fabric marbling and was hoping this list
might be of help.
Thanks,
PatV

[

Dear Gretchen,

Personally I'm not sure I have tried luminescent
paints.  Are you talking about glow in the dark stuff,
florescent paint?  The last paint like that I tried
was years ago (Deka) and they have changed their paint
formula so it is not satisfactory for marbling.  If
you do a little Research and Development I would be
interested in what you find out.  Ask Golden Paint Co.
if they make any.  Golden works well on methyl
cellulose.

Good Luck,
Laura Sims
Indigo Stone Marbling Studio
--- gretchen vansant <fine_artist2002@...>
wrote:
> You Know ladies,I've found you to be quite
> negative.The stuff I made clothes from is "wedding
> material" and I don,t make children's clothes from
> it. It does not burn easily as the "silky from the
> acetates.  Any way it was just experimenting.But
> when I,ve Asked about luminescent paints SEVERAL
> TIMES.I get no help.In fact I,ve had no response to
> anything I,ve inquired about,except this.  "totally
> bummed" with this group Gretchen
>
> irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote: Also
> be warned, many "silky" womens' robes are made from
> this.....I love
> them in the summer, they feel so silky and
> cool.....but what to we tend to
> do first thing in the AM? Turn on the stove to boil
> water or make coffee
> .....the sleeves can drape into the flame...I have
> electric, but I quickly
> singed/melted a cuff, luckily it wasn't an open
> flame. This stuff should
> maybe be looked at instead of worn.
>
> Iris Nevins
>
>
> Message text written by
> INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > I believe there is a federal law against making
> childrenıs garment with
> this
> > fabric.  At least I know that childrenıs sleepwear
> cannot be made with
> this
> > stuff.  That is, if the fabric you are using is
> acetate .  I still donıt
> know
> > what ³acrylic² satin is. I  meant to refer to the
> type of burns that you
> can
> > get from it as nasty.  Be careful, donıt work with
> it in a drafty room by
> > candlelight!
> >
> > Well Gail,this nasty material as you
> interpreted,works great streched,and
> on
> > alot of things. I had one little girl thrilled
> with her new "marbled"
> > polyester bellie button pants
> > gretchen
> > Gail MacKenzie <gailmackenzi@...> wrote: >
> Hello HH and Iris,
> >> > A question.  Just what is ³acrylic² satin?
> Most web sites refer me to
> >> types
> >> > of paint, or, otherwise give no information on
> the properties of
> acrylic or
> >> > synthetic satin?  Are you referring to that
> nasty, flammable melts
> into
> >> your
> >> > skin stuff that some people like to pass off as
> silk?  Gail
> >> >
> >> > Welcome to paper hell......LOL! I am finding
> that almost nothing works
> >> > anymore. It's a real problem. And that
> synthetic satin is wonderful,
> it has
> >> > zero snob appeal, it is not silk but sure is
> nice.
> >> >
> >> > Iris Nevins
> >> >
> >> > Message text written by
> INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> >> > <
>
>
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> Terms of Service.
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>
>
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
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>
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Dear Pat,

This is so much fun catching up on the community
group.  Pat, for several years I have primarily
marbled on charmeuse and crepe de chine silk, but also
find it works well on many PFD (prepared for dyeing)
cottons, lame', upholstry, poly-cottons, linen
handwovens,etc....  There are a handful of people on
the list who primarily marble on fabric.  As you have
questions by all means ask.

Best,
Laura

--- PatV <fiberbrat@...> wrote:
> Hello,  Is paper marbling a thread right now or is
> it the main focus of the list.  I am a rank amateur
> dabbling in fabric marbling and was hoping this list
> might be of help.
> Thanks,
> PatV
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
>
>


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Not all questions about marbling can be answered here. There are More
questions to come. And there is opportunity to get an overview of what
people can and will do with material, paint, paper. The networking
alone--on-list and off list is important to many. It is equally important to
push the envelope and have great fun, in experimentation with this medium. I
welcome debate and discussion and alerts about hazards and pitfalls--so that
any reader can have a larger scope of knowledge. Certainly I am glad that
the methods you employ bring you good results. Thank you for sharing that
with us.
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "gretchen vansant" <fine_artist2002@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] paper and fabric


You Know ladies,I've found you to be quite negative.The stuff I made clothes
from is "wedding material" and I don,t make children's clothes from it. It
does not burn easily as the "silky from the acetates.

Hello Everyone,

Since I am moving Dec.4 I wanted to relay my 2004
teaching schedule before the computer is boxed.

Jan. 25-31, "Color Explosion: Dyeing Fabrics to
Marble", John C. Campbell Folk School, Brasstown, NC
1-800-FOLK SCH, www.folkschool.org
The first day we will dye fabrics in pale, medium and
and dark colors.  The rest of the week will be spent
exploring different marbling techniques.

Mar. 28-Apr. 3, Arrowmont School of Arts and Crafts,
Gatlinburg, Tn, 865-436-5860, www.arrowmont.org

Aug. 29-Sept. 4, Penland School, Penland, NC,
828-765-2359, http://penland.org

Both Arrowmont and Penland will cover classical and
innovative techniques on paper, fabric and wood using
acrylics on methyl cellulose.

If you have additional questions please email me at
indigostone2@....  I will check up until Dec. 1
and after Dec. 15.

Best to all,
Laura Sims
Indigo Stone Marbling Studio

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Nice hint for a trough! I liked what Sandra Holzman did (or still does?
Sandra, where are you?) with the 1 x 4s and the hook and screw eye system.
You could make multiple temporary size trays. then the plastic sheet laid
in, the size itself inside fit the sides to the wood. Then pop a hole in
the corner to drain into buckets.

Iris Nevins

Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>
Hi List,

This is my 2 cents worth on fabric marbling.  For many years I marbled silk
scarves with excellent results using acrylic paints on a carragehean size.
I used the same alum solution as for marbling paper, submerging the scarves
in it and then hanging to dry (not necessary to pre wash, as there is no
noticeable sizing in the silk).  After they dried I ironed them smooth
prior to marbling.

Silk, taffeta, and satin all marble beautifully, as the natural sheen of
the fabric comes through.  I was not successful marbling 100% cotton, and
somewhat successful with a 60/40 polyester/cotton blend.  A textile artist
explained to me that cotton "sucks" up all of the color and doesn't reflect
it back, whereas silk reflects the color.  I don't know how scientific that
is, but it made sense to me.  The marbled cotton looked beautiful wet, as
soon as it dried it was "dead."

I have never used reactive dyes, but I think that is the way marbling is
done successfully on cotton.  I have no experience there, maybe someone
else on this list has used dyes.

One hint I can give, is to use colored silk, and for paints use black,
white, grey, and a little of whatever color the material is.  The marbled
pattern looks great and the silk material shines though.  I stopped using
white silk once I found how much better color silk looked.

To build a marbling tank just for the scarves, my husband nailed an open
rectangle (using 4 lengths of lath) slightly larger than the 9"x45" scarf.
He then nailed another rectangle just larger than the first so that one sat
inside the other (like a rectangle shaped embroidery hoop).  Put a sheet
plastic between the two rectangles and you have a marbling tank (the inside
rectangle holds the plastic taut).

After all is said and done, I still prefer marbling paper to marbling
fabric.

d. guffey

<

Satin is not a fabric, it is a type of weave. Silk satin is quite luxurious.
Silk Charmeuse of a slightly different satin weave and is more supple than
silk satins.  Other satins may be woven from synthetics such as: acetate
(rayon) or polyester.  Polyester and rayon tend to water spot easily while
silk does not.  Rayon is the drapiest, silk the next and poly has the least
hand or drape.  Sateen is a satin weave made of long staple cotton yarns
that produce a lustrous surface.    Since satin is a weave I imagine it has
been woven with many different synthetics in addition the the ones noted
above.     Hope this is helpful.
PatV

> Satin is not a fabric, it is a type of weave. Silk satin is quite luxurious.
> Silk Charmeuse of a slightly different satin weave and is more supple than
> silk satins.  Other satins may be woven from synthetics such as: acetate
> (rayon) or polyester.  Polyester and rayon tend to water spot easily while
> silk does not.  Rayon is the drapiest, silk the next and poly has the least
> hand or drape.  Sateen is a satin weave made of long staple cotton yarns
> that produce a lustrous surface.    Since satin is a weave I imagine it has
> been woven with many different synthetics in addition the the ones noted
> above.     Hope this is helpful.
> PatV
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
Thanks Pat.  I know that the term satin refers to the weave.  I was hopeful
that ³synthetic² satin was a new something or other out in the realm of
fabrics.  Iris: about missing marblers, I personally know 3 from Marieıs
list.  They just arenıt marbling anymore, but still may be interested.  I
will give them the Society of Marblers contact info.   Burn-out refers to
more than velvet!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please excuse the group posting.

I am trying to contact Susa Glenn and need a new email
address.  Susa please contact me at
indigostone2@....

Many thanks, Laura



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Hi, Laura,
Please contact me at susa@...
Thanks,
Susa Glenn

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Laura Sims <indigostone2@y...>
wrote:
> Please excuse the group posting.
>
> I am trying to contact Susa Glenn and need a new email
> address.  Susa please contact me at
> indigostone2@y...
>
> Many thanks, Laura
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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does anyone have Marie Palawoda's phone#? Please.....send off group to me
privately,
thanks
Iris Nevins

Laura,

Let me try this again. Please go to my web site,
www.artfabricstudio.com and contact me through the website.
Thanks,
Susa Glenn

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, Laura Sims <indigostone2@y...>
wrote:
> Please excuse the group posting.
>
> I am trying to contact Susa Glenn and need a new email
> address.  Susa please contact me at
> indigostone2@y...
>
> Many thanks, Laura
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
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Sorry to post this to the list.  Milena I received your message but the
reply bounced.

Vi

Hello out there in cyberspace from here in northwestern Pennsylvania!  I thought
I'd join the group for what I can learn and what I can add.  I'm a self-taught
marbler, - started about 10 years ago.  For the past several years I've been
interested in a couple of areas:  1)  understanding the process of marbling, in
particular, as it was done from the 16th century up through Halfer's transition
to modern marbling:  the pigments, paints, and techniques of those times.  2) 
the problem of obtaining workable metalIic paints for watercolor marbling.
I have a website:  www.marblersapprentice.com (be patient with the image
downloads - they take some time).
For anyone interested, I have re-worked three different Tiger eye formulas and
the directions are provided (click on Tiger or Sun on the homepage or the
chemicals page).  I am still trying to fine-tune these, and also find a few more
(there are at least five or six), but my ability to locate the original sources
is limited.
I've done some experimentation with gum tragacanth, but haven't been happy with
the quality  - would love to obtain some if anyone knows of a reliable source.
Anyway, I'm happy to have some contacts with whom to share the tradition and
challenge of marbling.
Garrett Dixon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Welcome aboard--be sure to check out the early archives--as I think here was
posting way back then about tigerseyes!
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "G. Dixon" <gdixon@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:47 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Newcomer


> Hello out there in cyberspace from here in northwestern Pennsylvania

Wow....what a great site....looks like we are on the same page...pardon
pun! You may or may not know, early marbling is my area of obsession. I
think we live fairly close to each other too (in these parts less than two
hours is close!) ....where have you been all these years? Or maybe we have
met? My mind is a seive!

good luck!
Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com

Message text written by INTERNET:Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>
Hello out there in cyberspace from here in northwestern Pennsylvania!  I
thought I'd join the group for what I can learn and what I can add.  I'm a
self-taught marbler, - started about 10 years ago.  For the past several
years I've been interested in a couple of areas:  1)  understanding the
process of marbling, in particular, as it was done from the 16th century up
through Halfer's transition to modern marbling:  the pigments, paints, and
techniques of those times.  2)  the problem of obtaining workable metalIic
paints for watercolor marbling.
I have a website:  www.marblersapprentice.com (be patient with the image
downloads - they take some time).
For anyone interested, I have re-worked three different Tiger eye formulas
and the directions are provided (click on Tiger or Sun on the homepage or
the chemicals page).  I am still trying to fine-tune these, and also find a
few more (there are at least five or six), but my ability to locate the
original sources is limited.
I've done some experimentation with gum tragacanth, but haven't been happy
with the quality  - would love to obtain some if anyone knows of a reliable
source.
Anyway, I'm happy to have some contacts with whom to share the tradition
and challenge of marbling.
Garrett Dixon<

Jill,
I am a newcomer too. How do you check out the early
archives?
Robin Olson
--- J Dolphin <jdolphin@...> wrote:
> Welcome aboard--be sure to check out the early
> archives--as I think here was
> posting way back then about tigerseyes!
> Jill
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "G. Dixon" <gdixon@...>
> To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:47 PM
> Subject: [Marbling] Newcomer
>
>
> > Hello out there in cyberspace from here in
> northwestern Pennsylvania
>
>
>


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Go into the site-find messages-go Early-within the first 100 or so. If
memory serves me correctly-Iris Nevins did some posts on tigereyes at that
point. Hope that helps!
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "DaveorRobin Olson" <dave1robin@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2003 12:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Newcomer


> Jill,
> I am a newcomer too. How do you check out the early
> archives?
> Robin Olson
> --- J Dolphin <jdolphin@...> wrote:
> > Welcome aboard--be sure to check out the early
> > archives--as I think here was
> > posting way back then about tigerseyes!
> > Jill
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "G. Dixon" <gdixon@...>
> > To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2003 9:47 PM
> > Subject: [Marbling] Newcomer
> >
> >
> > > Hello out there in cyberspace from here in
> > northwestern Pennsylvania
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Over the week-end, I had the opportunity to go to the Ottawa antiquarian
book fair. To my delight, Lucie Lapierre was there with a stall of her papers.
Between my fractured French and her English, we had a great old chin wag.
     The newbies on the list will want to look at her photos on her techniques
page--showing how a tray is set up.
     For the Americans suffering such difficulty with their papers--I spoke with
Lucie about this. She gets her paper locally in Quebec--and has none of the
recent issues of run off you are experiencing. She says send her an email--and
perhaps her information about her paperstock-can assist you in some way.
     http://pages.infinit.net/marbrure/a_index.html

Jill


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Greetings Marbling friends,
I haven't checked the site in awhile and it seems alot is changing--
Laura is moving, Susa has a new address, Marie has a new phone.

What is not new is the quest for the perfect inexpensive paper to
marble.  Well, it's not perfect, but I recently had a commission to
marble several 100 square feet to line library walls and was glad to
find that Speedball makes their blockprinting paper again, and it's
carried by Dick Blick.  It's not as great as it was, but is very
reasonable and with alum makes a good print.  It's available in
several sheet sizes--I used the 18x24".

Lucky Diane Maurer is still sitting on her stockpile of the old
stuff, the wonderful toothy sheets that needed no alum. If we all
made alot of noise, perhaps they's go back to the old recipe.

Best wishes to all for a happy holiday season!

Enid Adams
Surface Design Studio - The Plains, VA
540-253-5678

PS I'll be teaching workshops in my studio this winter/spring.
Anyone interested, please contact me off list enidadams at earthlink
dot net or by phone, and I'll be sure to send you a schedule.

I am a fabric marbler and needed to ask your expert advice.  I purchased
some pickling alum from a Mennonite grocery store and I was wondering if
there is any difference between presoaking fabric for marbling with that
or with the alum I purchased from the dyehouse.  My college age son
helped me do some chemistry experiments to see if both alums were the
same or different.  We couldn't remember what to do after we got started
(his chemistry class was 3 years ago) so we tried several things.  First
we burned both and they both bubbled.  Then we put spoonfuls for each
alum into 2 separate containers of bleach, vinegar, ammonia, water,
alcohol.  I think it was the alcohol that made the pickling alum rubbery.
  Anyway, at the end of the experiments we decided that we have no idea if
they are the same or different in chemical composition.  My last marbling
session seemed washed out with color not being what it should be but then
I was using several months old methyl cel.  I use 20 gallons of methyl
cel and don't marble all the time as I am a quilter, teacher, etc. so I
usually marble all at once and then not for awhile.  Is pickling alum the
same and therefore interchangeable with marbling alum?  The cost and
shipping makes the pickling alum more affordable.

Thanks,

Linda Hall

WOW! Another Great question on properties. I certainly hope the fabric folk
can help out here!
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda AA Hall" <Lindah40@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 7:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 682


> I am a fabric marbler and needed to ask your expert advice.  I purchased
> some pickling

I would stick to aluminum sulphate  or aluminum potassium sulphate. They
are best for marbling,
Iris Nevins

Potassium aluminum sulfate is relatively inexpensive. 5 lb. of alum
from Pro Chem lasts quite a while.  I order 5 lb or by the pound when
I'm ordering other materials to save on shipping. It works best
fresh.  So does methyl cellulose.  Washed out fabrics could come from
letting methyl cel sit around too long and lose it's viscosity, or
old weakened alum soak. Alumned fabric exposed to air and light also
tends to have less hold on the colors.  If I'm not going to get to it
right away, I store alumned fabric in a drawer or closet.

I have trays I use for classes that marble a 12x18 sheet or quilter's
fat quarter and only need 2 gallons of size.  This might work well
for you to keep on hand unless you're into your marbling intensive.
When your're gearting up for that, it's worth starting with fresh
ingredients for the best results.  Good luck!

Enid Adams - Surface Design Studio
The Plains, VA
540-253-5678

Pickling alum is Potassium aluminum sulfate. It can be used, at least for paper
which is what I have used it for.  Aluminum sulfate is the traditional mordant
for dyers, and I think is also better for paper marbling.
Garrett Dixon----- Original Message -----
   From: J Dolphin
   To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 8:59 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 682


   WOW! Another Great question on properties. I certainly hope the fabric folk
   can help out here!
   Jill
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: "Linda AA Hall" <Lindah40@...>
   To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
   Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2003 7:36 PM
   Subject: Re: [Marbling] Digest Number 682


   > I am a fabric marbler and needed to ask your expert advice.  I purchased
   > some pickling



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