Has anyone tried using textile or fabric paints for marbling? Do you
need to use alum if you're going to use these paints? If you plan to
use textile medium for artist's acrylics, do you still need to treat
the fabric with alum?

I have done marbling on fabric using fabric paints and, yes, I was
instructed by the vendor to use alum.


> From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 4 Dec 2002 08:26:00 -0000
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 469
>
> There is 1 message in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Paints
> From: "manihunt" <manihunt@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 16:29:56 -0000
> From: "manihunt" <manihunt@...>
> Subject: Paints
>
> Has anyone tried using textile or fabric paints for marbling? Do you
> need to use alum if you're going to use these paints? If you plan to
> use textile medium for artist's acrylics, do you still need to treat
> the fabric with alum?
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Greetings from Japan
  Home page of Suimonga/Suminagashi has been updated.
  Please visit to
http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~kuroda/
  You can find different world of marbling. Thank you.
              Takaji KURODA

Hi everyone,
Had my first try with marbling today. Nothing spectacular, but I like
what I got :) Just a few things that don't seem right.

I got a few blotches on one print. I guess that's because of air
bubbles trapped underneath. How do you avoid that?

Secondly, three of the prints appear darker in parts (mostly in the
center and a little on the sides) and lighter in the rest. What could
be the reason? I am using Createx Airbrush colors.

Another query I had was if you should wring the fabric when rinsing
after printing? Do you have to airdry it, or can you iron it straight
away?

Is there any website I can check for inspirations?

Looks through the archives for some good discussions of various marbling
topics. As well, check out the files section for websites. Lots of eye candy
here!
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: <manihunt@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 7:22 AM
Subject: [Marbling] What did I do wrong?


> Hi everyone,
> Had my first try with marbling today. Nothing spectacular, but I like
> what I got :) Just a few things that don't seem right.
>
> I got a few blotches on one print. I guess that's because of air
> bubbles trapped underneath. How do you avoid that?
>
> Secondly, three of the prints appear darker in parts (mostly in the
> center and a little on the sides) and lighter in the rest. What could
> be the reason? I am using Createx Airbrush colors.
>
> Another query I had was if you should wring the fabric when rinsing
> after printing? Do you have to airdry it, or can you iron it straight
> away?
>
> Is there any website I can check for inspirations?
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Hi,
Did some marbling first time today. I'm using the Createx Airbrush
colors, but the red I've got does not turn out red at all. It goes
pink (I'm mixing water to thin the colors a bit). Any suggestions on
how to get red instead of pink?

They may just have too much dispersant in the red. You may have to adjust
all the other colors to work with the red my adding the appropriate
dispersant for these paints. I don't use them, can't advise further, but
this is usually the way to fix it.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com

To avoid bubbles taks practice. Make sure the sheet is at least damp/limp.
You also may not be allowing some dry time after aluming, if you alum and
use it wet without pressing under boards a few minutes this will not allow
the paint to adhere.

Do not wring fabric, the marbling is a surface design and will rub off in
spots where it is wrung. Just dip in a bucket of clean water, swish around,
hang to dry. I have plastic cement mixing trays under to catch drips.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com

How does one get into the archives for past topics?  thanks...Ann
Also, has anyone mixed marbling on silk and painting on silk? any advice of
paints/dyes and techniques?
  irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:To avoid bubbles taks practice.
Make sure the sheet is at least damp/limp.
You also may not be allowing some dry time after aluming, if you alum and
use it wet without pressing under boards a few minutes this will not allow
the paint to adhere.

Do not wring fabric, the marbling is a surface design and will rub off in
spots where it is wrung. Just dip in a bucket of clean water, swish around,
hang to dry. I have plastic cement mixing trays under to catch drips.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't use anything else except water. In fact the whole thing looks
really pale compared to the original colors. Does one have to build
up the paints on the surface to be able to get darker colors? What
colors do you use?


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, irisnevins <irisnevins@c...> wrote:
> They may just have too much dispersant in the red. You may have to
adjust
> all the other colors to work with the red my adding the appropriate
> dispersant for these paints. I don't use them, can't advise
further, but
> this is usually the way to fix it.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com

By archives I am simply refering to all the past postings. Titles on the
posts themselves are the best indicators of the threads' subjects.
Jill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ann Lederer" <alederer@...>
To: <Marbling@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 11:12 PM
Subject: [Marbling] Re: [archives etc.


>
> How does one get into the archives for past topics?  thanks...Ann
> Also, has anyone mixed marbling on silk and painting on silk? any advice
of paints/dyes and techniques?
>  irisnevins <irisnevins@...> wrote:To avoid bubbles taks
practice. Make sure the sheet is at least damp/limp.
> You also may not be allowing some dry time after aluming, if you alum and
> use it wet without pressing under boards a few minutes this will not allow
> the paint to adhere.
>
> Do not wring fabric, the marbling is a surface design and will rub off in
> spots where it is wrung. Just dip in a bucket of clean water, swish
around,
> hang to dry. I have plastic cement mixing trays under to catch drips.
>
> Iris Nevins
> www.marblingpaper.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Try layering more color on. Use the red first so the other colors
concentrate it. You still may need a dispersant.

I use my own colors, many people use Golden acylics....I cannot elaborate
on the, maybe others can. All paints are not the same. Each manufacturer
has their own formulas, so for example all acrylics or all atercolors do
not work the same for marbling.

Iris Nevins
www.marblingpaper.com

I use Createx colors with great results - did you soak the fabric in alum
prior to marbling?
>
> I don't use anything else except water. In fact the whole thing looks
> really pale compared to the original colors. Does one have to build
> up the paints on the surface to be able to get darker colors? What
> colors do you use?

Dear Marbling Group

I have managed to set up a website that mostly works. I have a
surface design page with a number of marbled pieces as well
as a page with marbled trees.
Also ,on my links page, I have a school assignment with stages
of making marbled trees.

i would love it if you had a look. The url is;
www.dedree.com

I enjoy reading Marbling postings

Dedree Drees

WOW! Your marbled trees are magnificent!!!

Lavinia Adler

On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 23:10:17 -0000 "dd21207 <ddrees@...>"
<ddrees@...> writes:
> Dear Marbling Group
>
> I have managed to set up a website that mostly works. I have a
> surface design page with a number of marbled pieces as well
> as a page with marbled trees.
> Also ,on my links page, I have a school assignment with stages
> of making marbled trees.
>
> i would love it if you had a look. The url is;
> www.dedree.com
>
> I enjoy reading Marbling postings
>
> Dedree Drees
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


________________________________________________________________
Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com

Do u use  Createx Airbrush colors? That's the only one I can find
near my place. Does your red look like pink? I use about 1 drop of
paint per drop of paint. Yes, I did soak the fabric in alum. I used
about 4 Tbsp alum to 1 gallon of water. Do you build up your colors
on the base?


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah S. Harris" <deb@d...> wrote:
> I use Createx colors with great results - did you soak the fabric
in alum
> prior to marbling?
> >
> > I don't use anything else except water. In fact the whole thing
looks
> > really pale compared to the original colors. Does one have to
build
> > up the paints on the surface to be able to get darker colors? What
> > colors do you use?

Yes they are wonderful trees, Dedree!!
Iris Nevins

Yes I use the Airbrush colors.  And I'm pretty sure the red is red.  I'll
test it Sunday (my play-day).  You might want to call Dharma Trading
(http://www.dharmatrading.com) and ask them - they're very knowledgeable. Do
you use the Createx dispursent?

> From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Date: 10 Dec 2002 08:25:43 -0000
> To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 473
>
> There are 2 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Re: Digest Number 471
> From: "manihunt <manihunt@...>" <manihunt@...>
> 2. Re: my website with marbled works
> From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 10:24:47 -0000
> From: "manihunt <manihunt@...>" <manihunt@...>
> Subject: Re: Digest Number 471
>
> Do u use  Createx Airbrush colors? That's the only one I can find
> near my place. Does your red look like pink? I use about 1 drop of
> paint per drop of paint. Yes, I did soak the fabric in alum. I used
> about 4 Tbsp alum to 1 gallon of water. Do you build up your colors
> on the base?
>
>
> --- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah S. Harris" <deb@d...> wrote:
>> I use Createx colors with great results - did you soak the fabric
> in alum
>> prior to marbling?
>>>
>>> I don't use anything else except water. In fact the whole thing
> looks
>>> really pale compared to the original colors. Does one have to
> build
>>> up the paints on the surface to be able to get darker colors? What
>>> colors do you use?
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 08:11:30 -0500
> From: irisnevins <irisnevins@...>
> Subject: Re: my website with marbled works
>
> Yes they are wonderful trees, Dedree!!
> Iris Nevins
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

No, I don't use any dispersant. I just use water to dilute the
paints. How much does your paint spread? Or rather, how much is it
supposed to spread? My first color seems to cover the whole area in
just a few drops. Maybe that's what's making my red go light. Is it
possible for you to send me a copy of one of your marbled pieces just
to be sure? I don't live in the States, and hence can't call Dharma
with enquiries, but will maybe e-mail them.


--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, "Deborah S. Harris" <deb@d...> wrote:
> Yes I use the Airbrush colors.  And I'm pretty sure the red is
red.  I'll
> test it Sunday (my play-day).  You might want to call Dharma Trading
> (http://www.dharmatrading.com) and ask them - they're very
knowledgeable. Do
> you use the Createx dispursent?
>

> Yes I use the Airbrush colors.  And I'm pretty sure the red is red.  I'll
> test it Sunday (my play-day).  You might want to call Dharma Trading
> (http://www.dharmatrading.com) and ask them - they're very knowledgeable. Do
> you use the Createx dispursent?
>
>> > From: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>> > Reply-To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>> > Date: 10 Dec 2002 08:25:43 -0000
>> > To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [Marbling] Digest Number 473
>
Hello everyone,  I have been traveling and dealing with family..so, Iıll
just take a minute but I have a lot to say about Createx and everyone elseıs
red for marbling.  You can either put it down as the first or second color
and then let all the other colors push it into a semblance of a good strong
red.  Or, you can try dropping it as the very last color if it doesnıt
spread beyond a golf ballıs diameter.  If it is too thick it will peel off.
It has always been a tricky color.  Usually Createx red is a slow spreader.
I have been ³thinning² it with their magenta, or the interference lilac and
even fluorescent orange.  Their reds tend to go pinkish.  Ruppert, Gibbon
and Spider is coming out with a new line of Versatex airbrush which their
are adapting especially for marbling.  So far, the red is fantastic!!  Best
wishes, Gail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: <willhoward1234@...>
To: <jdolphin@...>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 3:43 PM
Subject: New


> Jill,
> I'm new.  Started marbling in early 1970s.  While in Library School at
> UT-Austin, I started admiring marbles.  I found a day-long class at
> Laguna Gloria Art Museum taught by a fellow whom I think was there to
> collect his money, schmuze with the art crowd, and leave.  It was a
> pleasant class.  Under his concert we made several patterns and
> listened to whatever he said. But the next day at home I realized he'd
> said nothing useful about how to get materials and equipment, make
> size, select paper, adjust the colors.  So I set out upon marbling.
>
> Eventually I got some instructions and moss from TALAS.  I still have
> some brown sacks with old moss in them.  One day I ought to boil 'em
> up and see if the soup still works.  Shortly later I taught my new son
> his colors by marbling.
>
> I usually make acrylics, but have dabbled in suminagashi.  I'll trying
> watercolors next.
>
> I've never tried to go professional.  I just make a few pretties (and
> a few uglies too) occasionally.  I did start a bibliography to
> accompany classes; in those days good information was hard to find.
> The list was limited to books with English language instruction or
> information.  It really ballooned in the 1990s.
>
> When I started buying the moss dust in the art shops I really felt
> guilty.  Maybe my favorite set of colors occurred one hot summer here
> in Houston in the garage when I unintentionally used together the
> sherbert colors orange, lime, and lemon.  It cools me and flavors my
> tongue just to think of them.
>
> I'm a native East Texan and a librarian at Houston Public Library.
> Will
>

In the past I've asked about marbling classes in the Chicago area, and I have
had some information on them.  Unfortunately, I was never available for those
offered at the time.  Now that I'm out of grad school I have more time and am
very interested in attending a marbling class.  I think Galen Berry is coming to
Detroit in March, and I will go there if I have to, but I'd like to find
something closer.  Anything in the works that you know of in the Chicago area?

Thank you!

Suzanne



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

suzanne,
milena hughes teaches classes in the chicago area.  she is a marbling at yahoo
member.

Hello Marblers,

I've agreed to write an article for Hand Papermaking Magazine about marbling,
and i would like to get a sense of what other marblers think about marbling
on handmade papers. Any particular successes, failures, joys or frustrations?
Technical problems? Too expensive? Too scary? I know of only a few of you
(hello Marjorie Tomchuk) who do it regularly, as part of their work. Others -
Susan Martin and Dana and Ingrid at Moth Marblers from time to time. I know
many of you have experimented, and would love to hear your thoughts.

Wishing you a happy holiday season, and Peace

tom Leech

For the most part I find handmade papers too porous for clear lines in
marbling. Unless they have a very tight weave, that is.

Iris Nevins

Dear Tom

I have done some suminagashi on handmade paper, very gingerly. With
suminagshi you do not have the rinse stage so chances of success are a
little better. Though the patterns are nice they are soft because of lack of
heavy size  and the greater porosity. I use it only as a backdrop to more
work on top like watercolor painting. I have tried tougher handmades and
gotten darker and stronger patterns. But I get inconsisentcies of color
appearance. Some colors seem to sink in more than others. Some colors go on
but have a textured appearance. I would only do it if i am feeling
experimental. One risks mucking up the handmade paper as well as the
marbling job so it is rather an expensive experiment. If the paper has a
noisy texture already ,in terms of design it is at odds with marbling as the
patterns compete.

Dedree

-----Original Message-----
From: leech541@...
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/19/02 6:00 AM
Subject: [Marbling] handmade papers for mabling

Hello Marblers,

I've agreed to write an article for Hand Papermaking Magazine about
marbling,
and i would like to get a sense of what other marblers think about
marbling
on handmade papers. Any particular successes, failures, joys or
frustrations?
Technical problems? Too expensive? Too scary? I know of only a few of
you
(hello Marjorie Tomchuk) who do it regularly, as part of their work.
Others -
Susan Martin and Dana and Ingrid at Moth Marblers from time to time. I
know
many of you have experimented, and would love to hear your thoughts.

Wishing you a happy holiday season, and Peace

tom Leech

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

--- In Marbling@yahoogroups.com, marie-p@d... wrote:
> suzanne,
> milena hughes teaches classes in the chicago area.  she is a
marbling at yahoo member.


Hello Suzanne,
Please contact me.  I'm in the Evanston phone book.
No current public workshops- only private instruction during the
winter months, and giving a suminagashi demo on Feb. 3, at the Smart
Museum of Art of The University of Chicago (in conjunction with two
19th Japanese exhibitions) for their Family Day: continuous from 1-4
PM.  The Evanston Art Center will be offering a Marblers Retreat May
31/June 1, which I will be setting up (12 max., registration is now
open).

Dear Tom,
the 1st contemporary marbled handmade paper  I     fortunately saw
was  Ms.Marjorie Tomchuck's artwork at the 4th Intl.Marblers Gathering in
Istanbul.

then you blessed me with your  handmade paper
  fine art and challenging in marbling  technique,

after the Folklife Festival,I spent some time at Nelle Tresselt's
   FineLine Marbling Studio Danbury-CT,
we marbled Tohtu Baqi's -Uygur papermaker from Xinjiang -  mullberry bark
papers,
I  liked the result of this experiment  and it can lead to other trials and
solutions,

handmade paper seems to me to have more spirit ,
  texture and form can  be manipulated leading to 3D  graphics !

(if I may interpret Ms.Tomchuck's Dard Hunter Keepsake  piece under 3D graphics?
it  was paper made on a mould and then marbled :
the light on relief marble  - to me - gave life to the artwork (still does !)

by the way ,unless you or Feridun Ozgoren marbled Tohtu Baqi's papers
in Washington during the Folklife Festival ,
can I assume that  me and Nelle are the first (2nd?) to marble Khotan  papers?

Istanbul has an Ebru Art  supplier now !Our friend sells tarraganth
gum,trays,horse hair brushes,pigments,ox gal, drying racks..
He is a student of Fuad Baser,running a hardware-paint store,
and the neighbourhood is full of marbling  masters,artists and
culture centres with courses on Ebru.

I got some cadmium red -somehow after those mails in the group
I had an appetite  for some artistic self destruction.

At times I feel like a martyr of Art,
I once etched my thumb with fluoric acid  while etching calligraphy on flash
glass,
the brand new dishwashing glove had a hole,and I was dipping my hands in the
acid bath.(In  USA  one may think of sueing the glove company but not much
protection here)

Deep down I wish we have the same regulations  that you friends have,
I  wrote this line for the previous mails  complaining about  rules..
I have probably a lot of lead,sand  and glass dust,and many toxic fumes
deposited
along the years despite the fact that I am aware of the health hazards and
protection rules...
In the oriental chaos of no regulations
survival is a matter of coincidential existence,
we will never know what hit us !

last week there was a demonstration in front of the Italian embassy
demanding that they take their toxic waste that they dumped on the black sea
coast nearly ten years ago -we are still sitting on this garbage
and not having the proper means to store them  they have been contaminating
ever since they landed.

if some pigments are toxic ,so what ?
we will be victims of our love...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tom,

Are you including Japanese papers many of which are hand made and marble
well, some with and some without alum?

I agree with the information from Iris Nevins and Dedree Drees, but
would just like to add that the effectiveness of the paper is much
affected by the type of beating and the fibre content. Soft,
under-beaten paper, and paper made from linters seem more likely to
produce the fuzzy effect that Iris Nevins mentions. I have used my own
handmade paper which had been heavily beaten or have a small percentage
of flax fibre and both seem to be more receptive to marbling with sharp,
clear lines. Tim Barrett's papers marble well but are expensive so I
only use them for cover papers. I am sure that you could get information
from Tim.

I am sure that you know that Hand Papermaking did a portfolio of
decorated paper on handmade paper some years ago. I vaguely recall that
some of these were marbled.

-----Original Message-----
From: leech541@... [mailto:leech541@...]
Sent: December 19, 2002 6:00 AM
To: Marbling@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Marbling] handmade papers for mabling

Hello Marblers,

I've agreed to write an article for Hand Papermaking Magazine about
marbling,
and i would like to get a sense of what other marblers think about
marbling
on handmade papers. Any particular successes, failures, joys or
frustrations?
Technical problems? Too expensive? Too scary? I know of only a few of
you
(hello Marjorie Tomchuk) who do it regularly, as part of their work.
Others -
Susan Martin and Dana and Ingrid at Moth Marblers from time to time. I
know
many of you have experimented, and would love to hear your thoughts.

Wishing you a happy holiday season, and Peace

tom Leech



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/