Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
LeftLibertarian2 · LeftLibertarians Unbound!
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Message search is now enhanced, find messages faster. Take it for a spin.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
How is mutualism different than anarcho-capitalism?   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #12836 of 31460 |
Re: [LeftLibertarian2] How is mutualism different than anarcho-capitalism?

That depends on how one defines the two terms as well as how firm of a
grasp on their own ideology the proponent of it it has in some cases.

The principal ideological difference, though, is property theory.

Mutualists advocate a usufruct approach to property law, Rothbardian
an-caps advocate Rothbardian property theory (a radically anti-state
version of Lockean property theory -- call it Lockeanism 2.0) and
non-Rothbardian an-caps tend to have no theory of justice in property
beyond existing property titles. Then there's the geoists, but I'm not
going there right now...

Mutualists and those Rothbardians that get along well with them tend
to look at the two property theories as two seperate legal doctrines
that could amicably compete in a stateless free market for arbitration
services (i.e. "law" and "courts"). It may be a bit more involved than
"metric vs. English", but you hopefully get the drift.

There are other differences. Many are just cultural or terminological,
though, IMO.

In academic terms, one could count the economic dispute over
subjective value theory (an-caps) versus the labor theory of value
(mutualists). If we take Carson's work on the labor theory of value as
the best modern take on it and the "plumb-line" for modern mutualist
political economy doctrine, this becomes an irrelevant difference in
practical terms. Carson's understanding of the labor theory of value
that he promotes in his book is heavily subjectivized. LTV stops being
a rationale for statist forcible redistribution of wealth and instead
describes/predicts how free markets will tend to even out wealth
naturally (a tendency or opinion subjectivists can also hold -- we
just don't incorporate that into an economic theory of value).

On 9/28/07, steohawk <steohawk@...> wrote:
>
> Hi there.
>
> Perhaps I don't understand mutualism, but why is it considered
> different from anarcho-capitalism? Don't mutualists believe that by
> removing the state and economic intervention, greater economic
> equality would naturally result in the free market? If that's so, then
> how are they different than Rothbardian anarcho-capitalists?
>
>



Sat Sep 29, 2007 3:59 am

brad_spangler
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #12836 of 31460 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Hi there. Perhaps I don't understand mutualism, but why is it considered different from anarcho-capitalism? Don't mutualists believe that by removing the state...
steohawk
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
2:24 am

That depends on how one defines the two terms as well as how firm of a grasp on their own ideology the proponent of it it has in some cases. The principal...
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
3:59 am

Thanks for clearing that up. I suppose even for libertarians, it's sometimes difficult to determine what constitutes property. My personal theory is that...
steohawk
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
6:04 am

I don't know about naturally but I think in most cases it will tend to lead to that although in some cases maybe many it might not but I think the ratio would...
terry12622000
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
1:07 pm

Carson wrote an instructive short piece on what I would call a sort of "functional fusion" of Rothbardian and usufruct approaches in the context of...
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
2:37 pm

New blog post in response to "...counter-economics will naturally lead to true property rights." "Counter-economics, bootstrapping a system of stateless law...
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Sep 29, 2007
5:42 pm

Thanks for all the links. I'll have plenty of reading to do. :-) ... firm of a ... cases. ... Rothbardian ... anti-state ... property ... I'm not ... tend ... ...
steohawk
Offline Send Email
Sep 30, 2007
3:22 am

Terry, I have never cared much for the “you own yourself” theory of property. I concentrate on human exertion producing Wealth (capitalized because it’s...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 1, 2007
10:47 pm

"I have never cared much for the "you own yourself" theory of property" So who does own you, if you don't? Richard ... From: "Harry Pollard"...
Richard Garner
richard_a_ga...
Offline Send Email
Oct 1, 2007
11:21 pm

Why, everybody who lives within an unspecified proximity of you, of course. Never fear, though -- they own you in common, rather than collectively. [grin]...
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
7:04 am

Well, of course, I am unowned which means a Rothbardian can homestead me. I’m not sure how anyone else can own be – the question doesn’t arise. Richard,...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
5:32 pm

I realize it sounds counter-intuitive, but I regard that as an example of the inadequacy of existing language. The words "self ownership" come closest to...
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
7:56 pm

"There is only one fundamental right (all others are its consequences or corollaries): a man's right to his own life. Life is a process of self-sustaining and...
BGreen
erm4you
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
2:46 am

BG, As you know, I don’t think there are any rights that come with the body. No-one has a right to life. He has to work hard to stay alive. And if the...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
8:10 am

Harry: I rather think that this "self-ownership" bizness owes its origin to the same property fetish that wants to reduce everything to "ownership rights." An...
tony_hollick
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
8:30 pm

... Whoever first converts you to part of the land and mingles his labor with you. I'm afraid that I have to reject this "you own yourself" property theory. It...
Dan Clore
clore333
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
12:13 am

We probably ought to be paying rent to those proximate or semi-proximate individuals for the unfair exclusive use of ourselves. After all (for example), it's...
Jeff Olson
jlolson666
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
2:55 pm

We must be grateful for small mercies. ****************************** Harry Pollard Henry George School of Los Angeles Box 655 Tujunga CA 91042 818 352-4141 ...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
8:47 pm

Ah, but they only have an equal individual access right, not collective ownership! Richard ... From: Brad Spangler To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com Sent:...
Richard Garner
richard_a_ga...
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
6:01 pm

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm watching "Big Love"....
Brad Spangler
brad_spangler
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
9:46 am

Gauthier argued for a tax on the rental income of humans. Richard ... From: Jeff Olson To: LeftLibertarian2@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2007...
Richard Garner
richard_a_ga...
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
6:20 pm

"Well, of course, I am unowned which means a Rothbardian can homestead me." If you are unowned, then presumably you have none of the rights over yourself that...
Richard Garner
richard_a_ga...
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
6:38 pm

A slave would be interested in your contention that bad things happen to him because he is unowned, rather than because he is owned. I thought your argument...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
8:43 am

... Like your right to life (as you have pointed out) one must take positive action to secure one's life via continued supply of sustenance from our natural...
BGreen
erm4you
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
10:22 am

Well, we certainly wouldn't want to confuse poor Harry with such terribly difficult to grasp philosophic metaphors as "self-ownership." JO ... From: "Brad...
Jeff Olson
jlolson666
Offline Send Email
Oct 2, 2007
9:04 pm

I suppose the reason for your ad hominems is that you are not very good at throwing them, so you need lots of practice. I don’t think the idea of...
Harry Pollard
haledward1
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
8:00 am

I believe that the target of an insult is probably not the best judge of how good the insult is. It's kind of like asking Bush if the undeclared war in Iraq...
Dan Ust
dan_ust
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
4:09 pm

To me, it's a beautifully succinct idea which is fundamentally true -- in fact, it is about as close to being self-evident as any social/libertarian principle...
Jeff Olson
jlolson666
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
6:02 pm

My only objection is one which you might consider to be just semantics. The idea of "ownership" generally includes a right to sell. Sure, we can all agree that...
Trevor Acorn
tjacorn
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
6:13 pm

Of course it's different. There are some on the left who think self-ownership can be used to justify slavery, and in fairness, many 19th century classical...
kurtjhorner
Offline Send Email
Oct 3, 2007
9:13 pm
First  | < Prev  |  Next > Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help