LandCafe : Messages : 12858-12887 of 15900

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pknjgubw3k4&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=\
PLB16C25905CE12F77

#12860

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 10:11 am
Subject: Re: Land Value Tax Welsh Assembly

burns_curtis

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:

> Mark Drakeford, Labour AM for Cardiff West, led a short

> debate on the subject 'A Land Value Tax for Wales'

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igo_QoB6OvE

The first 10 minutes above is a great explanation of LVT.

Below, largely the transcript....

A Land Value Tax for Wales

LTV is a tax which would be levied on the annual rental value of specific pieces of land, where the value is determined by different usages, for example, agricultural and industrial land. It is, of course, an alternative to existing forms of taxation, not an addition to them. At its most radical, a LVT would allow for the abolition of Council Tax, Business Rates and Stamp Duty Land Tax, by introducing a levy on the annual rental value of every site in Wales including all residential, commercial and farming land, as well as privately owned estates. Moreover, LVT is a progressive tax. Council Tax is regressive because it imposes a lower burden on the rich than on the poor � and also a lower burden on rich places than poor places. LVT reverses that proposition.

The basic idea behind a Land Value Tax is that the supply of land is fixed. As Mark Twain said, when advising people to buy land, they aren't making it any more. As a result, it is inherently scarce. Its price reflects three things: its scarcity value; the value of improvements made by the landowner; and the value of improvements made by other people, especially the public sector. In modern conditions the first and third of these almost entirely swamp the second. Therefore it is right and fair that value created not by the landowner but (mostly) by national and local government should be taxed.

To give just one practical example: It has been calculated that the Jubilee Line extension to Stratford has raised property values around the stations by �10 billion. If only a small part of this windfall had been taxed, it would have paid for the extension very easily. And, at the same time, while those who benefit from big increases in land values as a result of such development pay more, those whose sites have suffered (such as, for example, housing close to railway tracks which may decline in value because of noise or vibration) would pay less � a form of automatic compensation without any complicated appeals system. In just the same way an LVT could easily pay for many other much-needed infrastructure schemes.

What, then, are the main practical advantages of a LVT?

First and foremost, such a tax would be tricky for even the rich to avoid. It's hard to hide land or move it offshore to avoid getting taxed.

For economists such as the OECD's, who advocate a LVT, there are two other big advantages: land taxes (they argue) increase long-term stability and growth by fostering more productive use of capital; and they stabilise government finances by bringing in revenue efficiently and quickly.

So, a LTV is:

cheap to collect
difficult to evade
discourages speculative land holding
encourages active use of land, creating more job opportunities and wealth and, here in Wales, we already have, in TAN 6, `One Planet Development', a policy approach which is sympathetic to land value principles.

Is it, then, a practical, political possibility? Well, I don't want to underestimate the problems of tackling taxation, especially in an economic downturn. And the experience of the poll tax remains one which has scarred the collective memory of tax change in the property field.

Nevertheless, a LVT has an impressive economic and social pedigree. Lib Dem supporters have included both Vince Cable and Chris Huhne. For Labour, Andy Burnham made it a centre piece of his campaign for Labour leadership, describing it as an idea so old-Labour it can be traced back to Thomas Paine. It is the official policy of the Green Party in Scotland where research carried out late in 2010 suggested that a land value tax of 3.16p per pound would generate enough cash to replace council tax and the uniform business rate, while leaving 75% of Scottish households better off in the process.

But LVT is not simply a policy of the radical left. Free-market capitalists and mainstream economists, such as Martin Wolf and Samuel Brittan, have both argued the case in favour. And, indeed, on the right of the political spectrum, a LVT has gained new traction in relation to problems in Greece. Put simply, it is quite difficult to move an Athens mansion off-shore (or, indeed, one in Belgravia) in order to avoid taxation.

And here in Wales LVT is also an idea with a strong lineage. Inside the Labour Party, the idea was first seriously advanced by Keir Hardy, in his 1906 Manifesto to the people of Merthyr Tydfil and Aberdare. Here is what he said:

'The slums remain, overcrowding continues whilst the land goes to waste. Shopkeepers and traders are overburdened with rates and taxation whilst the increasing land values that should relieve the ratepayer

go to people who have not earned them.'

Three years later, a Land Value Tax was intended to be the centre piece of Lloyd George's `People's Budget' of 1909, but was defeated by the vested interests of the House of Lords and property owners in the House of Commons. Now, in the era of devolution, there may be a chance for their uncompleted work to be brought to a conclusion in Wales.

Of course, it may be that the current settlement will not make it easy for such a reform to be introduced in the immediate future; but the whole future of responsibility for taxation is very much a matter of current debate. I hope that, by raising this matter, it can be brought to the attention of the Silk Commission so that it can include a consideration, if not of land value tax itself, then at least of the case for providing the National Assembly with powers to reform taxation in Wales, in this way, should it choose to do so.

Because here, the part of the United Kingdom with the longest tradition of radicalism, we have no difficulty in understanding the notion that land is `common wealth' � that land is a resource in common. As a result of being fixed and fundamental, it should belong to the people; and those who have the privilege of ownership should pay something back for that privilege, through a Land Value Tax. Once this is understood and agreed, the serious work of detailed investigation of its pros and cons and its practical implementation here in Wales can begin.

http://commissionondevolutioninwales.independent.gov.uk/files/2012/02/Mark-Drakeford-AM-English.pdf

Reply | Messages in this Topic (2)

#12861

From: Bill Batt <hwbatt@...>
Date: Fri Mar 2, 2012 7:41 pm
Subject: Fw: Breaking news: Big bad wolf in cooking pot horror

bill.batt

Folks, you've got to see this ad if you haven't as yet! B.

Bill Batt
680 N. Pearl St., Albany, New York 12204-1729
v: 518-462-5068; fax: 866-492-9804 hwbatt@...
most of my recent work at centralresearchgroup.org
*The fox knows many things--the hedgehog one big one*
Archilochus (c.650 B.C.

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: The Guardian <info@...>
To: hwbatt@...
Sent: Friday, March 2, 2012 9:30 AM
Subject: Breaking news: Big bad wolf in cooking pot horror

If you are having problems viewing this email, view in browser.

This week we launched an advertising campaign to showcase our ground-breaking open journalism and to demonstrate that the Guardian remains committed to giving our readers the whole picture - in whatever form they choose to receive it.

The TV ad premiered on Channel 4 on Wednesday night, but if you missed it, you can watch it online and tell us what you think.

The world of information - how it's created; who creates it; how it's shared and distributed - is changing immensely fast. We're on the 'open' side of the debate about what the future will look like: we believe that this leads to better understanding, better journalism, more diversity and a much bigger audience for the Guardian's content and values.

As a reader, you will have seen that at work in our investigations, our foreign coverage and our news and commentary over the past year or so. The advertising campaign is about spreading awareness. You'll see a lot of activity from us over the coming months - on TV, across the web, in the cinema and on outdoor poster sites. We're calling the campaign 'the whole picture' - a line we first used in 1986 on the famous 'points of view' advertisement, featuring a skinhead who was (depending on your point of view) either attacking or rescuing someone.

I hope you enjoy the short film retelling the classic fairy tale of the 'The Three Little Pigs', and that it helps in understanding the journey the Guardian is on.

Alan Rusbridger
Editor-in-Chief
Guardian News & Media

You are receiving this email because you opted to receive messages from Guardian News & Media Limited.

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#12862

From: Bob Matter <rjmatter@...>
Date: Sat Mar 3, 2012 8:36 pm
Subject: Goldman: Real Estate to Bottom Mid-2013

rjmatter00

Chicago RE still has another 10% to drop.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/goldman-backpedals-housing-recovery-delays-housing\
-bottom-forecast-mid-2013

Bob M.

#12863

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2012 6:15 pm
Subject: LVT in Jo-Burg

burns_curtis

I like this by Mason Gaffney.....he hit the nail on the head.

Johannesburg, South Africa has no tax on buildings. The entire property tax is on land. Mason Gaffney, a highly respected land economist and Professor of Economics at UC Riverside, visited Johannesburg. This is what he said about it.

"The miracle of Johannesburg: Jo-burg is a Bootstrap City. It should have died when its gold mines played out, like a proper mining boomtown; instead it remains as the economic capital of its nation and half a continent.
"Johannesburg defies most laws of urban economics, e.g. that mines create no great cities. Explainers still site the mines, but its mines have played out; it should now be a ghost town. It has no harbor, no water transportation, nor even any gravity water supply. It is, in fact, on a ridge top, the Rand or "reef," at an elevation of 5,000 ft. Unlike Chicago or Boston, it has no sunburst of rail lines, except perhaps what it has attracted itself. It is "on the main rail line," Explainers say, but so are 1000 miles of other sites. The natural site lacks outstanding amenities, and certainly can't hold a candle to Cape Town. Jo-burg has no governmental economic base. Surrounding farmland is poor. Why Johannesburg? Why is it the largest city, the center of finance, industry, commerce, and international air travel? As a public finance economist I may overvalue incentive taxation, but Jo-burg has it. The property tax is on site value only, and at a high rate: they tell me it is 4%. This is what makes Jo-burg distinctive. Challenge and response: Jo-burg had to do something right in order to survive, and that is what it did. It not only survived, it became and remains Number One. Give me a better explanation and I'll back off. I haven't heard one yet."

#12864

From: Joshua Vincent <joshua@...>
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2012 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: LVT in Jo-Burg

joshua@...

www.urbantoolsconsult.org

Unhappily, the ANC forced Jo-Burg, against�its�will, to abandon the tax on land values. �The city is now mired in disinvestment and�unemployment.

Joshua Vincent,�Executive Director
Center for the Study of Economics
413 South 10th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19147
215.923.7800 Extension 1�

The Center for the Study of Economics is a 501 (c) 3 non-profit educational foundation.
Our mission is to research land value taxation, to assist governments in implementation and to study the effect of land based property taxation where used. We suggest implementation where appropriate but do not support political candidates or become involved in the electoral process.

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 1:15 PM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:

�

I like this by Mason Gaffney.....he hit the nail on the head.

Johannesburg, South Africa has no tax on buildings. The entire property tax is on land. Mason Gaffney, a highly respected land economist and Professor of Economics at UC Riverside, visited Johannesburg. This is what he said about it.
"The miracle of Johannesburg: Jo-burg is a Bootstrap City. It should have died when its gold mines played out, like a proper mining boomtown; instead it remains as the economic capital of its nation and half a continent.
"Johannesburg defies most laws of urban economics, e.g. that mines create no great cities. Explainers still site the mines, but its mines have played out; it should now be a ghost town. It has no harbor, no water transportation, nor even any gravity water supply. It is, in fact, on a ridge top, the Rand or "reef," at an elevation of 5,000 ft. Unlike Chicago or Boston, it has no sunburst of rail lines, except perhaps what it has attracted itself. It is "on the main rail line," Explainers say, but so are 1000 miles of other sites. The natural site lacks outstanding amenities, and certainly can't hold a candle to Cape Town. Jo-burg has no governmental economic base. Surrounding farmland is poor. Why Johannesburg? Why is it the largest city, the center of finance, industry, commerce, and international air travel? As a public finance economist I may overvalue incentive taxation, but Jo-burg has it. The property tax is on site value only, and at a high rate: they tell me it is 4%. This is what makes Jo-burg distinctive. Challenge and response: Jo-burg had to do something right in order to survive, and that is what it did. It not only survived, it became and remains Number One. Give me a better explanation and I'll back off. I haven't heard one yet."

#12865

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2012 11:27 pm
Subject: Re: LVT in Jo-Burg

burns_curtis

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Vincent <joshua@...> wrote:
>
> Unhappily, the ANC forced Jo-Burg, against
> its will, to abandon the tax on land values.
> The city is now mired in disinvestment and unemployment.

Josh, I am aware of that.  However it does show the stark difference of the
before and after.  But the detractors will no doubt blame the transition from
apartite and the world slump but not the real reason for the decline.

However Mason's observations are spot on. Jo-Burg is in a God forsaken part of
SA and had no right to be the economic super-city for all Southern Africa.
Nothing was going for it at all. It comes across as an artificial creation I
suppose like Brasilia.  Mason hit the nail on the head in defining the success
of this anomaly.

I was in Jo-Burg just before Mandela got to power, with some locals praising the
local tax system.  The place was obviously wealthy. Some outside people did not
like the city as it was featureless - no river, etc.  South Africa is short on
rivers.

> Joshua Vincent, Executive Director
> Center for the Study of Economics
> 413 South 10th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19147
> 215.923.7800 Extension 1
> www.urbantoolsconsult.org

#12866

From: Joshua Vincent <joshua@...>
Date: Thu Mar 8, 2012 11:31 pm
Subject: Re: Re: LVT in Jo-Burg

joshua@...

www.urbantoolsconsult.org

Quite agree on all points, John. �BTW, One of my closest cousins (in a NGO) sold his house and left after the land tax was ended. �He loved the city, and mentions often that without the bustle and the commerce, Jo-Burg had not much going for it!

Cheers, Josh

Joshua Vincent,�Executive Director
Center for the Study of Economics
413 South 10th Street
Philadelphia, PA 19147
215.923.7800 Extension 1�

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 6:27 PM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:

�

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Vincent <joshua@...> wrote:
>
> Unhappily, the ANC forced Jo-Burg, against
> its will, to abandon the tax on land values.
> The city is now mired in disinvestment and unemployment.

Josh, I am aware of that. However it does show the stark difference of the before and after. But the detractors will no doubt blame the transition from apartite and the world slump but not the real reason for the decline.

However Mason's observations are spot on. Jo-Burg is in a God forsaken part of SA and had no right to be the economic super-city for all Southern Africa. Nothing was going for it at all. It comes across as an artificial creation I suppose like Brasilia. Mason hit the nail on the head in defining the success of this anomaly.

I was in Jo-Burg just before Mandela got to power, with some locals praising the local tax system. The place was obviously wealthy. Some outside people did not like the city as it was featureless - no river, etc. South Africa is short on rivers.

> Joshua Vincent, Executive Director
> Center for the Study of Economics
> 413 South 10th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19147
> 215.923.7800 Extension 1
> www.urbantoolsconsult.org

#12867

From: "Scott on the Spot" <ssbaker305@...>
Date: Fri Mar 9, 2012 2:28 pm
Subject: Re: LVT in Jo-Burg

ssbaker305

We're getting a number of these reverse Georgist examples: Pittsburgh
(1990s-present), NYC (later 1930s, muddied by the Great Depression, but
still indicative).  I almost think we should be stressing the negative
examples more than the positive ones, maybe list them on a business
card...with positive talking points on the reverse.
--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Vincent <joshua@...> wrote:
>
> Quite agree on all points, John.  BTW, One of my closest cousins (in a
NGO)
> sold his house and left after the land tax was ended.  He loved the
city,
> and mentions often that without the bustle and the commerce, Jo-Burg
had
> not much going for it!
> Cheers, Josh
>
> Joshua Vincent, Executive Director
> Center for the Study of Economics
> 413 South 10th Street
> Philadelphia, PA 19147
> 215.923.7800 Extension 1
> www.urbantoolsconsult.org
>
>
> The Center for the Study of Economics is a 501 (c) 3 non-profit
educational
> foundation.
> Our mission is to research land value taxation, to assist governments
in
> implementation and to study the effect of land based property taxation
> where used. We suggest implementation where appropriate but do not
support
> political candidates or become involved in the electoral process.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 6:27 PM, John burns-john@... wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Vincent joshua@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Unhappily, the ANC forced Jo-Burg, against
> > > its will, to abandon the tax on land values.
> > > The city is now mired in disinvestment and unemployment.
> >
> > Josh, I am aware of that. However it does show the stark difference
of the
> > before and after. But the detractors will no doubt blame the
transition
> > from apartite and the world slump but not the real reason for the
decline.
> >
> > However Mason's observations are spot on. Jo-Burg is in a God
forsaken
> > part of SA and had no right to be the economic super-city for all
Southern
> > Africa. Nothing was going for it at all. It comes across as an
artificial
> > creation I suppose like Brasilia. Mason hit the nail on the head in
> > defining the success of this anomaly.
> >
> > I was in Jo-Burg just before Mandela got to power, with some locals
> > praising the local tax system. The place was obviously wealthy. Some
> > outside people did not like the city as it was featureless - no
river, etc.
> > South Africa is short on rivers.
> >
> >
> > > Joshua Vincent, Executive Director
> > > Center for the Study of Economics
> > > 413 South 10th Street
> > > Philadelphia, PA 19147
> > > 215.923.7800 Extension 1
> > > www.urbantoolsconsult.org
> >
> >
> >
>

#12868

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Date: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:40 am
Subject: Christian Wolmar's articles

wetzelda2000

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2006/07/rail-543-pessimistic-treasury-is-stifling-major-railway-projects/

Christian Wolmar is a transport expert often seen on TV and Radio.

Just found these old�references to Land issues�on Christian Wolmar's website:

�

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2006/12/department-for-transport-is-too-timid/
The latest proposal, put forward by a company called Kilbride Community Rail, is for rail reopenings such as Lewes-Uckfi eld or Oxford-Cambridge to be funded by a roof tax levied on new housing built in the area. The Lewes- Uckfi eld scheme, which would provide a much needed diversionary route between London and Brighton, seems a no brainer and yet rail reopenings elicit little interest in the Department, even though this one would be self-funding.

Dave Wetzel, a board member of Transport for London, has long campaigned for a Land Value Tax that would sustain countless developments but his idea is always regarded as �too difficult�, and even Eddington would not meet him to discuss the idea.

�

�

Another notable bias identifi ed by Roy is that the increase in land prices generated by infrastructure schemes � so clear in the case of the Jubilee Line Extension where the rise in land value mentioned above has been estimated at �2.8bn, virtually the precise cost of the project � is not included in the appraisal process. The trouble is that these benefi ciaries, mostly property developers, are in receipt of a lucky windfall which does not contribute to the cost of the project. Roy points out that such unearned extra rents should be taxed which, of course, would be a way of helping to fund such projects � a point made by Dave Wetzel of Transport for London who has long been campaigning for a land value tax.

�

http://www.christianwolmar.co.uk/2006/03/rail-535-ctrl-an-outrageous-saga-of-arrogance-and-incompetence/

There is a way of making projects like this and Crossrail genuinely funded by the private sector, and that is to tax those who benefi t from the increased land value generated by major infrastructure schemes. This has long been promoted, from the left, by Dave Wetzel, who ran London�s buses when he was a member of the Greater London Council in the 1980s and is now a member of the Transport for London board. Now, however, the very free market thinkers of the Institute of Economic Affairs have come up with the same idea in a booklet, Wheels of Fortune, published last month.

The author, Fred Harrison, argues that the way to fund major infrastructure is by �capturing and using the increases in land values they bring�. Instead, landowners near such projects get a windfall profi t as the value of their holdings increases without any investment on their part. This concept has been around for some time, but the government has never been brave enough even to undertake a serious study of how it could work in practice.
�

�

�Dave Wetzel

www.course.earthrights.net

#12869

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Date: Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:43 pm
Subject: Pakistan landowner imprisons children and adults!

wetzelda2000

http://www.thenews.com.pk/article-39240-Cops-free-78-captives-from-private-jail

MIRPUR KHAS: Police raided a local landlord's private prison in pursuance of court order and recovered 78 farm laborers including women and children in Mirpur Khas, a private news channel reported on Saturday.

�

Best Wishes,

�

�Dave Wetzel
www.course.earthrights.net

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#12870

From: Besik Tkhelidze <besik_tkhelidze@...>
Date: Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:36 pm
Subject: -From Georgian LVT enthusiast

besik_tkhelidze

Dear David (and all)

I have been quietly reading thousands of LVT emails for 8-9 years now... I was feeling I still need to learn a lot, before saying something valuable, worth mentioning... Now it is my time to join your discussion actively.

David, we met once in London in your office in TfL back in 2003. I was impressed with your Powerpoint presentation about LVT ideas... By then I was undertaking my PhD research at University of West of England (UWE Bristol). The study aimed evaluate land and property values changes in East London around Jubilee Line Extension, by GIS modelling tools. Before I was working for Swedish National Road administration and Stockholm municipality, aiming to evaluate land use changes affected by outer ring road of Stockholm..

Since then I participated in several pan-European research and consultancy projects funded by European Space Agency and European Commission (2003-2007)..

Then I returned to Georgia (one of former USSR republics), and set up a real estate development business (2007-2012).

More and more I am convinced that Henry George`s ideas are correct, but I also see the need of some extensions of the theory...

I am working to develop a scientifically justified development pass for my country Georgia, and LVT plays very important part there.

I would love to engage with brilliant members of the LVT community around globe to help me to answer the questions I do not have yet... In return I would like to share with you my findings too.

Please, let me know if you are interested.

Best wishes,

Besik Tkhelidze

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#12871

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:50 am
Subject: Re: -From Georgian LVT enthusiast

burns_curtis

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Besik Tkhelidze <besik_tkhelidze@...> wrote:

Besik, welcome. There are many great minds willing to assist here, so put your
questions to them. Also informing us of what happens in Georgia  relating to LVT
would be most welcome.

It may be worth getting in touch with Fred Harrison who worked in Russia
assisting the transformation from Communism to the market economy. He has a web
site.  He, and a groups of others, mainly from the USA I believe, recommended
that land stay in the hands of the state and leased back like it is in Hong
Kong, having a Single Tax. Unfortunately the Oligarchs got their way. If they
did what Fred & Co suggested, Russia would have been a world economic power by
now.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#12872

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Date: Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:47 pm
Subject: Georgia former USSR

wetzelda2000

From the Land Café.

Hi Besik,

Good to hear from you.

We are all keen to help you.

Please keep in touch re progress.

Best Wishes,

Dave

Dave Wetzel

CEO "Transforming Communities".
Sustainable Transport Policies ▪ Public Finance with Social Inclusion ▪ Affordable Housing ▪ Economic Land Policies with Justice.

Tel: 0208 568 9004
Intl:+44 208 568 9004

Mobile/Cellphone: 07715 32 29 26
Intl: +44 7715 32 29 26

e-mail: davewetzel42@...

40 Adelaide Terrace. Great West Road.
Brentford. LONDON. TW8 9PQ. UK
Web:
www.LabourLand.org
www.TheIU.org
www.course.earthrights.net

#12873

From: Besik Tkhelidze <besik_tkhelidze@...>
Date: Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: Georgia former USSR

besik_tkhelidze

Dave, many thanks for your support. This time I can be also more useful. I wonder if you can share with me some of your articles, or powerpoint slides. I am working to make contribution to Henry George-s ideas. My aim is to make more correct analysis of the problems each country is facing, in order to make better prescription of how to change the system for better.

Lets cooperate on this issue, as I am sure your goal is that too...

I plan to start in-depth theoretical discussions on LVT network... There must be lots of brilliant brains to contribute with their inputs :))

best wishes,

bes

--- On Sun, 11/3/12, Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...> wrote:

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Subject: [LandCafe] Georgia former USSR
To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 11 March, 2012, 20:47

From the Land Café.
Hi Besik,

Good to hear from you.
We are all keen to help you.

Please keep in touch re progress.

Best Wishes,

Dave

Dave Wetzel
CEO "Transforming Communities".
Sustainable Transport Policies ▪ Public Finance with Social Inclusion ▪ Affordable Housing ▪ Economic Land Policies with Justice.

Tel: 0208 568 9004
Intl:+44 208 568 9004

Mobile/Cellphone: 07715 32 29 26
Intl: +44 7715 32 29 26

e-mail: davewetzel42@...

40 Adelaide Terrace. Great West Road.
Brentford. LONDON. TW8 9PQ. UK
Web:
www.LabourLand.org
www.TheIU.org
www.course.earthrights.net

#12874

From: Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...>
Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:47 am
Subject: Re: Georgia former USSR

harrypollard0

Ed Dodson is an expert in Powerpoint and probably would be able to help you.

"Edward J. Dodson" <ejdodson@...>,

I'll copy this to him for his perusal.

Harry

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

On Sun, Mar 11, 2012 at 3:05 PM, Besik Tkhelidze <besik_tkhelidze@...> wrote:

Dave, many thanks for your support. This time I can be also more useful. I wonder if you can share with me some of your articles, or powerpoint slides. I am working to make contribution to Henry George-s ideas. My aim is to make more correct analysis of the problems each country is facing, in order to make better prescription of how to change the system for better.

Lets cooperate on this issue, as I am sure your goal is that too...
I plan to start in-depth theoretical discussions on LVT network... There must be lots of brilliant brains to contribute with their inputs :))

best wishes,

bes

--- On Sun, 11/3/12, Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...> wrote:

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Subject: [LandCafe] Georgia former USSR
To: LandCafe@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 11 March, 2012, 20:47

From the Land Café.
Hi Besik,

Good to hear from you.
We are all keen to help you.

Please keep in touch re progress.

Best Wishes,

Dave

Dave Wetzel
CEO "Transforming Communities".
Sustainable Transport Policies ▪ Public Finance with Social Inclusion ▪ Affordable Housing ▪ Economic Land Policies with Justice.

Tel: 0208 568 9004
Intl:+44 208 568 9004

Mobile/Cellphone: 07715 32 29 26
Intl: +44 7715 32 29 26

e-mail: davewetzel42@...

40 Adelaide Terrace. Great West Road.
Brentford. LONDON. TW8 9PQ. UK
Web:
www.LabourLand.org
www.TheIU.org
www.course.earthrights.net

--
******************

Henry George School

of Social Science

of Los Angeles

Tujunga CA 90243

(818) 352-4141

******************

#12875

From: "Edward Dodson" <ejdodson@...>
Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:35 am
Subject: RE: Georgia former USSR

ejdodson

Harry Pollard wrote:
Ed Dodson is an expert in Powerpoint and probably would be able to help you.

Ed here:
Calling me "an expert" is a bit of an exaggeration, but I do use PowerPoint
for almost all presentations and in the classroom. A growing number of these
presentations -- narrated -- are now available to be downloaded at
www.authorstream.com.

#12876

From: Dave Wetzel <davewetzel42@...>
Date: Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:12 pm
Subject: Re Wetzel in South Africa

wetzelda2000

http://www.iqpc.com/presentations/login.aspx

Hi Bes,

You say: "Dave, many thanks for your support. This time I can be also more useful. I wonder if you can share with me some of your articles, or powerpoint slides."

�

Please find below the instructions to access�the�presentation I gave at this year's�Africa 2012 Pipeline Summit in South Africa last month.

I was invited to speak as a transport expert on the transport effects of pipelines - but as you can see I managed to�include the land issue!
�

Go to the website:

�

Enter the user name: PipelineSA

Enter the password: Pipeline02

Open presentation No. 3

I'd welcome any comments on how I might improve my presentation.

Dave

Dave Wetzel

e-mail: davewetzel42@...

www.LabourLand.org
www.TheIU.org
www.course.earthrights.net

1b.
�� Re: Georgia former USSR��

Posted by:�� "Besik Tkhelidze"�� besik_tkhelidze@...�� besik_tkhelidze��

�� Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:05 pm�� (PDT)��

�

�� Dave, many thanks for your support. This time I can be also more useful. I wonder if you can share with me some of your articles, or powerpoint slides. I am working to make contribution to Henry George-s ideas. My aim is to make more correct analysis of the problems each country is facing, in order to make better prescription of how to change the system for better.
Lets cooperate on this issue, as I am sure your goal is that too...I plan to start in-depth theoretical discussions on LVT network... There must be lots of brilliant brains to contribute with their inputs :))
best wishes,
bes

#12877

From: Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:15 am
Subject: Emergency

harrypollard0

I really hope this gets to you in time, I was involved in a robbery during my

trip to Madrid,Spain. I was mugged,all my belongings including mobile

phone and credit card were all stolen.I asked my bank to cancel my cards and

place hold on my account to avoid unauthorized access. I need your help flying

back home.

Am cash strapped at the moment. I've made contact with my bank but the best

they could do was to send me a new card in the mail which will take 3-5 working

days to arrive here. I need you to lend me some money to sort my self out of this

predicament, i will pay back once i make it out of Spain.

Western union is the fastest option to wire funds to me. Let me know if you need

my details(full names on ID/location) to effect a transfer.

Thank you.

Harry Pollard.

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

#12878

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:54 am
Subject: YesM2

burns_curtis

This dude, Robert Hale, is saying that all property taxes "and" income taxes can
be abolished. I haven't figured out how he figures it out.

http://yesm2.com

Even if he has, it will not spot land speculation which creates world-wide
crashes.

#12879

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:55 am
Subject: Re: Emergency

burns_curtis

NOT ANOTHER HOAX!!!!!!!

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...> wrote:
>
> I really hope this gets to you in time, I was involved in a robbery during my
> trip to Madrid,Spain. I was mugged,all my belongings including mobile
> phone and credit card were all stolen.I asked my bank to cancel my cards and
> place hold on my account to avoid unauthorized access. I need your help flying
> back home.
> �
> Am cash strapped at the moment. I've made contact with my bank but the best
> they could do was to send me a new card in the mail which will take 3-5
working
> days to arrive here. I need you to lend me some money to sort my self out of
this
> predicament, i will pay back once i make it out of Spain.
> �
> Western union �is the fastest option to wire funds to me. Let me know if you
need
> �my details(full names on ID/location) to effect a transfer.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Harry Pollard.�
> \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
>

#12880

From: Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:03 am
Subject: Emergency

harrypollard0

I really hope this gets to you in time, I was involved in a robbery during my

trip to Madrid,Spain. I was mugged,all my belongings including mobile

phone and credit card were all stolen.I asked my bank to cancel my cards and

place hold on my account to avoid unauthorized access. I need your help flying

back home.

Am cash strapped at the moment. I've made contact with my bank but the best

they could do was to send me a new card in the mail which will take 3-5 working

days to arrive here. I need you to lend me some money to sort my self out of this

predicament, i will pay back once i make it out of Spain.

Western union is the fastest option to wire funds to me. Let me know if you need

my details(full names on ID/location) to effect a transfer.

Thank You,

Harry

\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

#12881

From: "Scott on the Spot" <ssbaker305@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:16 pm
Subject: Re: YesM2

ssbaker305

I didn't get past the advertising blurb:

"Many people ask whether the North Dakota Policy Council supports eliminating property taxes. My gut response is that eliminating any tax is a good idea, especially a tax as unfair and regressive as property taxes. Every tax takes away a little bit of everyone's economic liberty.

Property taxes are causing seniors to sell their homes when they don't want to. Many businesses get exemptions requiring all other property owners to pay for the services those businesses receive. It allows the use of tax increment financing which is being abused in Bismarck to the point where we sued the City. There are others, to be sure."

OK, I have stopped retching now. But this is bulls*(^. The property tax - at least the part on Land - is progressive, not regressive. The "poor widow" problem has already been addressed by Bill Batt, Mason Gaffney and others with deferral options until the property is sold (it's surprising how many homeowners railing against LVT will then be found to be crying crocodile tears). Businesses should pay for their prime location, of course, and people living in Bismark's central prime locations should pay more for that privilege too. This is just wrong and reminds me of revenue-gutting Howard Jarvis' campaign in California that has nearly destroyed that state, while enabling land hogging oil&gas companies to pay next to nothing on their lands. This is a disinformation campaign, probably backdoor financed by the big landowners who would prefer we didn't shine the spotlight on them.

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:
>
> This dude, Robert Hale, is saying that all property taxes "and" income taxes can be abolished. I haven't figured out how he figures it out.
>
> http://yesm2.com
>
> Even if he has, it will not spot land speculation which creates world-wide crashes.
>

#12882

From: Josh <joshua@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 3:17 pm
Subject: Re: Emergency

joshua@...

Georgists! Pay attention to basic Internet security!

This happens too much and is a distraction. Dont click on links on emails from people you have never heard of. That's how they track your keystrokes and get your passwords. Look care fully at the name. Hwbat1 is not hwbatt . Pay strict attention as you would in a dark alley

Josh
Sent from my iPhone - Center For the Study of Economics

On Mar 13, 2012, at 7:03 AM, Harry Pollard <harrypollard0@...> wrote:

I really hope this gets to you in time, I was involved in a robbery during my
trip to Madrid,Spain. I was mugged,all my belongings including mobile
phone and credit card were all stolen.I asked my bank to cancel my cards and
place hold on my account to avoid unauthorized access. I need your help flying
back home.

Am cash strapped at the moment. I've made contact with my bank but the best
they could do was to send me a new card in the mail which will take 3-5 working
days to arrive here. I need you to lend me some money to sort my self out of this
predicament, i will pay back once i make it out of Spain.

Western union is the fastest option to wire funds to me. Let me know if you need
my details(full names on ID/location) to effect a transfer.

Thank You,
Harry
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

#12883

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 4:09 pm
Subject: New Fred Harrison video about Glasgow

burns_curtis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtZ-uOaLZdA&feature=g-all-u&context=G200f666FAAAA\
AAAAAAA

#12884

From: bruno moser <bruno.moser@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 10:30 pm
Subject: Re: New Fred Harrison video about Glasgow

bruno.moser@...

thanks for bringing it to my/our attention

posted among my 3'000 faCIAbook friends....

:)

b.

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:09 PM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:

�

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtZ-uOaLZdA&feature=g-all-u&context=G200f666FAAAAAAAAAAA

--
International Land Economics
Philadelphia, Hanoi, Les Pr�s-d'Orvin, East Africa

TWO THOUGHTS FOR TODAY:
A man can't ride on your back unless it's bent. -Martin Luther King, Jr., civil-rights leader (1929-1968)

Wer die Wahrheit nicht kennt, ist nur ein Dummkopf. Wer sie aber kennt, und sie eine L�ge nennt, ist ein Verbrecher.
-Galileo Galilei, Italienischer Physiker und Astronom,(1564 - 1642)

#12885

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:17 pm
Subject: Re: YesM2

burns_curtis

There are these 1.5 min bites of his:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsDF3aa_eo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfuz9Nvs5xQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGzW817Y3Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SgqOzKRU4&feature=related

What is he doing that other have not figured out.  OK I worked in Saudi Arabia
and paid no income tax because the oil revenues were so high.  I see no massive
oil reserves, or other resources, in ND.

How is he abolishing property tax (tax on the land and house) "and" Income Tax? 
Is he playing to the gallery?  No tax on the land value will increase land
speculation, which brings dow world economies.

The "poor widow" always comes up by LVT detractors, while she may have to move
under the existing system anyhow.

Prof Roger Sandiland...

If society wants to make exceptions for hard cases, fine. But the truth is that
there is a close correlation between family income and the land or location
value of where we live. Thus under LVT the rich would in general pay more than
the poor for exclusive title to their larger or more desirable patch of our
fixed planet. The widow who is cash poor but asset rich can always take in a
lodger, downsize, or plead for a subsidy. But just as she has to pay a higher
price for the better seats in a theatre, why not for the best plots of our land?

Dave Wetzel....

1. We could allow her to defer or "roll-over" her tax payment by recording the
amount owed with the Land Registry and the amount owed plus interst could be
paid when the house is sold (like a mortgage).

2. All householders could be given a "homestead" or "household" allowance (like
the personal allowance for the first �5k of income tax in the UK) so that our
widow and the Duke of Westminster both get excused from paying say the first �1k
of their LVT bill on one home. (No allowance on second homes).

What stands out:
"But just as she has to pay a higher price for the better seats in a theatre,
why not for the best plots of our land? "

Eliminating any tax is a good ides of course, but where does the revenue come to
pay for community services? Cash does drop from the sky.  The army and police
knocking on doors for donations?

Keeping down land speculation?  How can that be easily done? LVT is scalable and
self regulating.

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "Scott on the Spot" <ssbaker305@...> wrote:
>
> I didn't get past the advertising blurb:
>
> "Many people ask whether the North Dakota  Policy Council supports
> eliminating property taxes. My gut response is  that eliminating any tax
> is a good idea, especially a tax as unfair and  regressive as property
> taxes. Every tax takes away a little bit of  everyone's economic
> liberty.
> Property taxes are causing  seniors to sell their homes when they don't
> want to. Many businesses get  exemptions requiring all other property
> owners to pay for the services  those businesses receive. It allows the
> use of tax increment financing  which is being abused in Bismarck to the
> point where we sued the City.  There are others, to be sure."
>
> OK, I have stopped retching now.  But this is bulls*(^.  The property
> tax - at least the part on Land - is progressive, not regressive.  The
> "poor widow" problem has already been addressed by Bill Batt, Mason
> Gaffney and others with deferral options until the property is sold
> (it's surprising how many homeowners railing against LVT will then be
> found to be crying crocodile tears).  Businesses should pay for their
> prime location, of course, and people living in Bismark's central prime
> locations should pay more for that privilege too.  This is just wrong
> and reminds me of revenue-gutting Howard Jarvis' campaign in California
> that has nearly destroyed that state, while enabling land hogging
> oil&gas companies to pay next to nothing on their lands.  This is a
> disinformation campaign, probably backdoor financed by the big
> landowners who would prefer we didn't shine the spotlight on them.
>
> --- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@> wrote:
> >
> > This dude, Robert Hale, is saying that all property taxes "and" income
> taxes can be abolished. I haven't figured out how he figures it out.
> >
> > http://yesm2.com
> >
> > Even if he has, it will not spot land speculation which creates
> world-wide crashes.
> >
>

#12886

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Tue Mar 13, 2012 11:29 pm
Subject: Re: New Fred Harrison video about Glasgow

burns_curtis

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, bruno moser <bruno.moser@...> wrote:
>
> thanks for bringing it to my/our attention
>
> posted among my 3'000 faCIAbook friends....

Bruno, Glasgow has been considering LVT for the past 2.5 years.  I hope it gets
through. The Scots have the power to do it. .....

Welsh & Scots devolution puts Glasgow, Edinburgh and Cardiff in great situations
to English cities. The two devolved countries have the power to introduce their
own taxation. There was a debate on Land Valuation Taxation in the Welsh
Assembly recently. Glasgow is attempting to get Land Valuation Taxation
implemented. This is difficult to do in England as the United Kingdom government
in London have to pass this sort of tax. Scotland,Wales and Northern Ireland
have their assemblies, but not the English. Westminster is for the UK.

Liverpool with derelict buildings, some 200 years old, attempted to get Land
Valuation Taxation through to clear up the dilapidated buildings a few years
ago. Josh Vincent wrote on this forum he went to Liverpool to advise to
local government, but Central HMG Westminster officials beat them down.

Some people over the years in Liverpool have suggested Merseyside, in England,
be incorporated into Wales - like NYC being a part of Connecticut.  Liverpool is
near the border of Wales. This sounds a good idea. Then the dead paw of
Westminster is off their backs and they look to Cardiff in Wales for freedom to
run their own affairs.  I doubt it will happen, but it shows the desperation
some people in some cities are going to.

> :)
>
> b.
>
> On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 7:09 PM, John <burns-john@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtZ-uOaLZdA&feature=g-all-u&context=G200f666FAAAA\
AAAAAAA
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> International Land Economics
> Philadelphia, Hanoi, Les Pr�s-d'Orvin, East Africa
>
> TWO THOUGHTS FOR TODAY:
> A man can't ride on your back unless it's bent. -Martin Luther King, Jr.,
> civil-rights leader (1929-1968)
>
> Wer die Wahrheit nicht kennt, ist nur ein Dummkopf. Wer sie aber kennt, und
> sie eine L�ge nennt, ist ein Verbrecher.
> -Galileo Galilei, Italienischer Physiker und Astronom,(1564 - 1642)
>

#12887

From: "John" <burns-john@...>
Date: Wed Mar 14, 2012 8:55 am
Subject: Re: YesM2

burns_curtis

--- In LandCafe@yahoogroups.com, "John" <burns-john@...> wrote:
>
> There are these 1.5 min bites of his:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbsDF3aa_eo
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfuz9Nvs5xQ&feature=related
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfGzW817Y3Q&feature=related
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1SgqOzKRU4&feature=related
>
> What is he doing that other have not figured out.
> OK I worked in Saudi Arabia and paid no income tax
> because the oil revenues were so high.  I see no
> massive oil reserves, or other resources, in ND.

North Dakota is bigger than many European countries. The area is 71,000 squ
miles while the UK is 94,000 squ miles.  The population of ND is 690,000 (the
size of a city) while the UK has 62 million.

ND has the Bakken oil shale fields.  Which "may" produce a million barrel per
day - same as the North Sea now.  But they need energy to extract the oil from
the shale (nuclear?). Shale oil is poor quality and requires much refining while
the standard of North Sea oil does not, nor needs much energy to extract.  The
controversial fracking is used in shale oil and gas extraction.  OK this may be
fine in a wilderness state like ND.  Fracking is used in Lancashire, England,
for gas and caused a minor earth tremor - some optimistically say that the field
can supply all the UK with gas for 50 years, we shall see.

So, ND may get away with no property taxes and income taxes - a mini Saudi
Arabia - an oil economy. This is not representative of most other economies, so
not worth the bother to look into any further.