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Messages 330 - 359 of 3803 Oldest | < Older | Newer > | Newest

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#330

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Fri May 28, 2004 5:53 am
Subject: MHA comments?

LDSgroupies -

I know things have been quiet on the list recently, but I have some good news. Last week at the Mormon History Association meeting, I gathered email addresses for several people who are interested in our little group and want to join in. I will get them added in the next day or so. I was wondering if any of you who attended the conference had any comments about it. I would like to let everyone know that our very own David Howlett received the MHA award for best graduate paper at the meeting. Way to go Dave!!!

Also, who is planning on attending the John Whitmer meeting this September? I am really looking forward to it. I am hoping that those of us on this list can plan a little "submeeting" during JWHA so we can all get to know each other better and discuss our common interest in non-Brighamite groups. What say ye?

Here is a link for more info about the JWHA meeting: http://www.jwha.info/poster.htm

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#331

From: "Tom Kimball" <tom@...>
Date: Fri May 28, 2004 8:14 pm
Subject: Re: MHA comments

I heard from several people, (household names in the LDS intellectual
community) about David Howlett's paper. It sounds very interesting and
enigmatic in a way. Congrats to him. I would love to read it.
I personally had one of the best times ever at MHA this year. The book room
was full of interesting people. I met several people who I've only met
on-line. I had Lou Midgley melt down in front of me while talking to a third
party. Entertaining as usual. The gentleman who witnessed the whole thing
looked absolutely stunned and asked me why I put up with that crap. (Great
question!) The truth is I was humming "Jesus Once Was a Little Child" to
myself. Not to blow my own horn but I kept saying to myself "what would
Jesus do." Though my mind was thinking "what would Wild Bill Hickman do...."

I'm going to JWHA meeting in Omaha this September. I hope to see some of you
there.

Tom Kimball
Signature Books
Heberite
>
> I know things have been quiet on the list recently, but I have some good
news.  Last week at the Mormon History Association meeting, I gathered email
addresses for several people who are interested in our little group and want
to join in.  I will get them added in the next day or so.  I was wondering
if any of you who attended the conference had any comments about it.  I
would like to let everyone know that our very own David Howlett received the
MHA award for best graduate paper at the meeting.  Way to go Dave!!!
>
> Also, who is planning on attending the John Whitmer meeting this
September?  I am really looking forward to it.  I am hoping that those of us
on this list can plan a little "submeeting" during JWHA so we can all get to
know each other better and discuss our common interest in non-Brighamite
groups.  What say ye?
>
> Here is a link for more info about the JWHA meeting:
http://www.jwha.info/poster.htm
>
> Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#332

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Tue Jun 1, 2004 3:37 am
Subject: Pauline Hancock

Hey guys -

I know I asked about Pauline Hancock last year on the list, but I wandering if anyone here has any documentation about her group, other than tracts (I think I have them all). For instance, I understand that at one time she was a member of the Stone Church RLDS congregation as well as a member of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). Does anyone know when exactly she started her group? I'm looking mainly for dates right now.

Thanks,

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#333

From: EarlyRR@...
Date: Tue Jun 1, 2004 12:09 am
Subject: Re: Pauline Hancock

In a message dated 5/31/2004 10:43:18 PM Central Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

Hey guys -

I know I asked about Pauline Hancock last year on the list, but I wandering if anyone here has any documentation about her group, other than tracts (I think I have them all). For instance, I understand that at one time she was a member of the Stone Church RLDS congregation as well as a member of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). Does anyone know when exactly she started her group? I'm looking mainly for dates right now.

Thanks,

Jason

Hi Jason

I have her book. She used to have a group on Lexington in

a basement church years ago. It has been finished and is a

Restoration Group now. Verle Cornish goes there and was

their pastor for awhile. Pauline is dead now. It has been about

20 years or more since her Church was in that building.

(In Independence, MO.)

In Christ,

Mirl Edwards

(Oak Grove, MO)

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#334

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Tue Jun 1, 2004 4:17 am
Subject: Re: Pauline Hancock

Thanks Mirl, do you have an email address for Verle Cornish?

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: EarlyRR@...

In a message dated 5/31/2004 10:43:18 PM Central Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

I know I asked about Pauline Hancock last year on the list, but I wandering if anyone here has any documentation about her group, other than tracts (I think I have them all). For instance, I understand that at one time she was a member of the Stone Church RLDS congregation as well as a member of the Church of Christ (Temple Lot). Does anyone know when exactly she started her group? I'm looking mainly for dates right now.

Hi Jason

I have her book. She used to have a group on Lexington in

a basement church years ago. It has been finished and is a

Restoration Group now. Verle Cornish goes there and was

their pastor for awhile. Pauline is dead now. It has been about

20 years or more since her Church was in that building.

(In Independence, MO.)

In Christ,

Mirl Edwards

(Oak Grove, MO)

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#335

From: Steve <steve@...>
Date: Tue Jun 1, 2004 6:00 am
Subject: Re: Pauline Hancock

Pauline Hancock's "Church of Christ" was located on
South Crysler, not Lexington.  The street takes a name
change when it turns south at the Community of Christ
Auditorium.

The church began as a study group, and only gradually
emerged into a separate church.  This was in the
mid-1940s.  In the early 1970s when they came to the
conclusion that the Book of Mormon was fraudulent, and
they dropped it, they began to move closer to the
Nazarene Church way of doing things, and for a number
of years they had preachers from the Nazarene Seminary
in Kansas City.

I had a long and engaging friendship and
correspondence with Olive Wilcox, until her untimely
death in the 1980s.  When the church voted to disband
(I think it was about 1984 or 1985), it was, according
to Olive, somewhat heartbreaking, but really mostly a
logical decision, as they were very few in number and
really had little to distinguish themselves from other
denominations, the Narzrene being the one that they
most closely identified with.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (4)

#336

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 10:15 pm
Subject: Interesting new group...

From the Contra Costa Times http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/8853086.htm?1c

Theology marks Helzer's trial

THEOLOGY LESSONS have never arrived in such a gruesome package.

Beneath the tales of death and dismemberment that distinguish the murder trial of Justin Helzer runs a significant undercurrent of spirituality.

In the trial's first five weeks, witnesses have explained the tenets of the Mormon faith and a Salt Lake self-help sect and delved into magic, Buddhism and the Helzer brothers' own perverse amalgam of belief systems.

The defendant, witnesses have testified, was dismissed from the Mormon Church, practiced yoga and liked to discuss reincarnation with friends. His brother, Taylor, who has admitted murdering five people in the summer of 2000 and also is an excommunicated Mormon, formed a series of commandments called the "12 Principles of Magic."

Another codefendant, Dawn Godman, said in court that she truly believed -- and may still -- that Taylor Helzer was a prophet who spoke regularly with God. Other witnesses shared that belief.

The case has drawn a disturbing link between spirituality and crime. The brothers used their beliefs to justify their plans for extortion, prostitution, drug sales and murder.

One of Taylor's goals was to overthrow Satan's minions in preparation for "Christ's millennial reign," Godman said.

Like Taylor, Godman has pleaded guilty in the scheme, which left five people dead, including a retired Concord couple and the daughter of blues guitarist Elvin Bishop. Their three bodies were dismembered and thrown into the Delta.

All three defendants participated in a Sacramento self-awareness program called Harmony that witnesses said "devastated" some members with its harsh, confrontational approach.

Harmony participants would stand in front of a room full of people and talk about being molested and raped, trial witnesses have said. Bathroom breaks during the group's marathon empowerment sessions were allowed only with a staff escort.

It was Harmony that Taylor valued most among the belief systems that he, Justin and Godman toyed with, several witnesses have said. Taylor demanded that people close to him complete the organization's three levels of training. People who didn't could not be trusted, he told his friends.

Another of his plots involved having small-town mayors enlist their townspeople to self-help training. The residents then would donate money to help Taylor create a nationwide Harmony organization.

In contrast, Justin Helzer purportedly was taken with New Age interests. Former roommates have testified that he often did yoga, grunting loudly with the exertion. He would debate Buddhism and other world religions and was an enthusiastic vegan.

Groups like Harmony, which began in Salt Lake City and includes a lot of Mormons, have drawn warnings from Mormon leaders for the faithful to beware.

A Bay Area spokesman for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints hastened to distance the Mormon Church from the Helzers' beliefs, as did a former Mormon bishop who testified at Justin's trial.

But Taylor apparently revered his Mormon upbringing enough to form a plan to assassinate church leaders and install himself in their stead, Godman told jurors.

Godman came to believe angels watched over the trio during the murders.

"It was my belief that I was doing God's work," she testified.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#337

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:20 am
Subject: NEWS: Another strange offshoot

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/06/24/BAGJ577KMI62.DTL

Wake up out there. I think everyone on this list must have gone to sleep =)

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#338

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 4:47 am
Subject: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

LDSgroupies -

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#339

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:17 am
Subject: NEWS: MARTINEZ - Details of bizarre plot to kill in God's name - Accused woman says s

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SF Gate Media Kit

MARTINEZ
Details of bizarre plot to kill in God's name
Accused woman says she was under spell of a prophet

Demian Bulwa, Chronicle Staff Writer

Thursday, June 24, 2004

Click to View

Click to View

When Glenn Taylor Helzer told Dawn Godman he wanted her to kill in God's name, she considered it a blessing.

Guardian angels circled, Godman recalled in court recently, as she sat with Helzer in a car outside the Mormon Temple in Oakland and listened to his plan to hasten Christ's return to Earth. She said he made her feel like a child in its parent's arms.

Such was the portrait of Glenn Taylor Helzer that emerged during his brother Justin Helzer's murder trial, which ended June 16 with his conviction on 11 counts, including murder, extortion and kidnapping, and will in all likelihood be presented as jurors, beginning today, consider Justin Helzer's state of mind when he killed.

Handsome, eloquent and affectionate, Glenn Helzer had a knack for manipulating the vulnerable. He believed he was a prophet and was charismatic enough to make Godman and his younger brother, Justin Helzer, believe it, too -- and join him in killing five people.

Although it was Justin Helzer on trial, Glenn Helzer weighed heavily in the proceedings. Justin Helzer, 32, had pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. Jurors, therefore, must consider whether he knew right from wrong as the "Children of Thunder" fatally bludgeoned and shot five people in 2000. Should they find Helzer was sane, they will then decide whether he should be put to death.

Glenn Taylor Helzer, 33, pleaded guilty shortly before his trial was to begin, but a jury must decide whether he should be sentenced to death. Godman, 30, pleaded guilty and testified against Justin Helzer in exchange for a sentence of 38 years to life.

Prosecutor Harold Jewett has argued that Justin Helzer was a willing participant in the crimes and his efforts to conceal the crimes show he knew what he did was wrong. Defense attorney Daniel Cook, who did not call any witnesses, insists Helzer was the hapless follower of a domineering brother whom he believed spoke for God -- a point he is expected to underscore in the days to come.

The trial also illuminated the bizarre relationships among the three people involved in the crimes, and those too are sure to be revisited during the sanity phase. Justin Helzer was portrayed as a shy, Spartan young man whose older brother often told him, "I'm No. 1, and you're No. 2." Godman was a lonely woman who as a child found comfort in the forests of the Sierra foothills and as an adult sought salvation for a speed habit, failed marriage and attempted suicide.

And then there was Glenn Helzer, a former stockbroker with a magnetic personality who wanted to defeat Satan and stretched beyond all reason the Mormon belief that people can communicate directly with God.

The Helzers met Godman on Memorial Day 1999 at a murder mystery dinner in a Mormon temple in Walnut Creek. The Helzers, raised by devout parents in Martinez but excommunicated in 1998 for drug use, were dressed entirely in black and didn't seem to fit in.

Neither did Godman, who was drawn to Glenn Helzer.

"He made you feel like you were the most important person in the world," Godman testified.

He had that effect on women.

"It was special just to know him," testified Keri Mendoza, who once dated Glenn Helzer and said he gave her the confidence to get breast implants and become a Playboy centerfold.

As he did with everyone close to him, Glenn Helzer forced Mendoza and Godman to attend self-awareness classes. He believed the program "began a process of breaking down people's walls ... so they would be more open to his ideas," Godman testified.

And so she spent four days in a windowless room with about 30 other people who confronted their demons with the help of a facilitator who Godman said reminded her of Glenn Helzer. She finished two of the program's three "levels" before Helzer said he'd take over the lessons.

That, she said, was when she realized Glenn Helzer was a prophet. She mentioned it to Justin Helzer, who agreed with her.

Before long, Glenn Helzer was laying ambitious plans. They included a bizarre plot to train Brazilian orphans to slaughter the leaders of the Mormon Church so he could become its prophet, and "Transform America," a self-help group to foster "a state of peace and joy" and defeat Satan, Godman recalled.

They needed money to carry out "Transform America." They decided to blackmail one of Glenn Helzer's former clients. Their first victim wasn't home, so they chose Ivan and Annette Stineman, a retired Concord couple. They extorted $100,000 from the couple and killed them.

The next day, they eviscerated and dismembered the bodies. Glenn Helzer let his brother do most of the dirty work, Godman said.

"Taylor said he had more important things to do, like sit and meditate and listen to the spirit," Godman testified.

When they'd finished, they kneeled as Glenn Helzer "thanked Ivan and Annette for being willing to sacrifice their lives for a greater cause," she said.

Two days later, Glenn and Justin Helzer fatally bludgeoned Selina Bishop, the daughter of bluesman Elvin Bishop. Glenn Helzer had befriended her because he wanted her to cash the Stinemans' checks. Before dismembering her body, Glenn Helzer showed Godman the body and said, "Spirit says you get to know: This isn't a dream," Godman testified.

The next morning, Glenn Helzer took Godman to the Marin County town of Woodacre to kill Bishop's mother, Jennifer Villarin, 45, and her companion, James Gamble, 54, because Villarin had seen his face and he worried she might identify him. Glenn Helzer tried to keep his name clean but didn't seem as concerned about his brother -- he shot the couple with a gun Justin Helzer bought under his own name.

Police quickly connected the killings in Woodacre to the death of the Stinemans, whose bodies surfaced after being tossed in duffel bags into the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta. Police arrested them on Aug. 7, 2000. Glenn Helzer insisted his brother and Godman were innocent.

"Spirit said that I should not let them be in here," he told the cop.

Godman continued to believe. For at least two years, she remained certain that Glenn Helzer was a prophet of God.

"I believed that no matter what happened, Taylor, working with the angels, would work to free us," Godman testified. "I believed that I could communicate with Taylor through the angels."

E-mail Demian Bulwa at dbulwa@....

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Reply | Messages in this Topic (1)

#340

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 2:14 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

Jason,

You’re probably referring to Vision. I read it there. I did hear from a good source that Juby had been ordained prophet a second time – and I believe it was this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. I don’t know whether he returned to Oklahoma or remained in Blue Springs, MO.

One former apostle in the original Jubyite group – Jerry Methner – also joined the Mormon church, about 2-3 years ago. I have been told by a member of the church that he took a copy of the mailing list with him and everyone got a missionary pitch in the mail.

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:47 PM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

LDSgroupies -

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#341

From: Patlabb@...
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 10:57 am
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Patlabb@...

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#342

From: "Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 2:15 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

jeffreyneedl...

May 2004 issue of what?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
To: <LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 9:47 PM
Subject: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

LDSgroupies -

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned
that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone here have any
verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the
Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several
years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??

Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#343

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:01 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Sorry about that, Jeff.  It was *Vision*, published in Independence, MO by
Price Publishing. http://restorationbookstore.org/

Jason

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@...>

> May 2004 issue of what?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>

> LDSgroupies -
>
> In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned
> that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone here have any
> verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the
> Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several
> years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus
Christ
> of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??
>
> Jason

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#344

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:28 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

It sounds like Juby was involuntarily removed from the Latter Day Israel group rather than leaving voluntarily?� Am I reading this right?

Jerry’s last name is spelled “Methner.”� I was a club brother of his at Graceland and know a lot of his cousins, including a cousin who is also Jerry Methner.�

Does anybody know of someone who has been an apostle in two groups?� The only one I know of is Wayne Bartrow, who was an apostle in the Church of Christ Restored, which began in Michigan in 1987, and recently became an apostle in the Remnant Church.�

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Patlabb@... [mailto:Patlabb@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:58 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#345

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:29 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

Do you know how I can get hold of Lee Abramson and Doyle Launius?

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Patlabb@... [mailto:Patlabb@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:58 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#346

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:30 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

I also forgot to ask, is Marcus back in Oklahoma or still in Blue Springs?

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Patlabb@... [mailto:Patlabb@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:58 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#347

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:37 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

According to a letter I received last October from a bishop with the Latter Day Israel church, Juby is living in Skiatook, OK. Last night I found his Skiatook address online and I'm sending him a letter today.

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:30 AM

Subject: RE: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

I also forgot to ask, is Marcus back in Oklahoma or still in Blue Springs?

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Patlabb@... [mailto:Patlabb@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:58 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#348

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:36 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Bill,

As you know, all registered corporations in MO are required to file an annual report with the Sec. of State. The 2003 report for the Church of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God lists Abramson as a board member and as president. This is his address:

Alton Lee Abramson

121 Winchester Mill Rd.

Pickens, SC 29671

Hope that helps,

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:29 AM

Subject: RE: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Do you know how I can get hold of Lee Abramson and Doyle Launius?

Bill Russell

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#349

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:54 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

Jason,

Great news.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:38 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

According to a letter I received last October from a bishop with the Latter Day Israel church, Juby is living in Skiatook, OK. Last night I found his Skiatook address online and I'm sending him a letter today.

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:30 AM

Subject: RE: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

I also forgot to ask, is Marcus back in Oklahoma or still in Blue Springs?

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Patlabb@... [mailto:Patlabb@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 9:58 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

In a message dated 7/1/2004 1:40:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jasons@... writes:

In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church. Does anyone here have any verification of this? Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several years. I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Anyone??

The above has been a BIG topic of discussion in our Book Of Mormon class. Marcus indeed joined the MORMON CHURCH. I was once affiliated with the RESTORATION Church of JCLDS and know Marcus and am somewhat shocked. Marcus after being "tossed out" joined and headed the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel. Marcus was subsequently severed from that church and joined the Mormons. This was related to me by Seventy Richard Weston of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Israel who is a member of our Book of Mormon here in Charleston, SC ... interestingly enough Jerry Metzler a former apostle and member of the first presidency in the Restoration Church JCLDS also joined the Mormon Church over a year ago.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#350

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:55 pm
Subject: Lee Abramson

Russell@...

Jason,

Thanks much. I really need to get in touch with Lee.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:37 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Bill,

As you know, all registered corporations in MO are required to file an annual report with the Sec. of State. The 2003 report for the Church of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God lists Abramson as a board member and as president. This is his address:

Alton Lee Abramson

121 Winchester Mill Rd.

Pickens, SC 29671

Hope that helps,

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:29 AM

Subject: RE: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Do you know how I can get hold of Lee Abramson and Doyle Launius?

Bill Russell

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#351

From: "Jeffrey Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

jeffreyneedl...

Can you tell me a bit more about "Vision" magazine -- who publishes it,
etc.

Thanks.


On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:14:51 -0500, Bill Russell <Russell@...>
wrote:

> Jason,
>
> You're probably referring to Vision.  I read it there.  I did hear from
> a good source that Juby had been ordained prophet a second time - and I
> believe it was this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  I
> don't know whether he returned to Oklahoma or remained in Blue Springs,
> MO.
>
> One former apostle in the original Jubyite group - Jerry Methner - also
> joined the Mormon church, about 2-3 years ago.  I have been told by a
> member of the church that he took a copy of the mailing list with him
> and everyone got a missionary pitch in the mail.
>
> Bill Russell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:47 PM
> To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?
>
> LDSgroupies -
>
> In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is
> mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone here
> have any verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet
> of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for
> several years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of
> Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??
>
> Jason



--

-------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@...
jeff.needle@...

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#352

From: "Jeffrey Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 4:03 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

jeffreyneedl...

Thanks!

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 10:01:33 -0500, Jason R. Smith
<jasons@...> wrote:

> Sorry about that, Jeff.  It was *Vision*, published in Independence, MO
> by
> Price Publishing. http://restorationbookstore.org/
>
> Jason
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
>
>> May 2004 issue of what?
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
>
>> LDSgroupies -
>>
>> In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is
>> mentioned
>> that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone here have any
>> verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet of the
>> Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for several
>> years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church of Jesus
> Christ
>> of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??
>>
>> Jason
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>



--

-------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@...
jeff.needle@...

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#353

From: "Jason R. Smith" <jasons@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

I'll defer this to Bill, who is much more familiar with it.
Jason


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
To: <LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?


> Can you tell me a bit more about "Vision" magazine -- who publishes it,
> etc.
>
> Thanks.

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#354

From: Patlabb@...
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 12:08 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Patlabb@...

In a message dated 7/1/2004 11:41:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Russell@... writes:

Do you know how I can get hold of Lee Abramson and Doyle Launius?

Bill Russell

Email me off line and I'll give you Doyle's address. He has been real sick lately.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

N�anmoins vous �tes b�ni, pour le t�moignage que vous avez port� �tes enregistr� dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils r�jouissent par-dessus vous, et vos p�ch�s vous sont pardonn�.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#355

From: Patlabb@...
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 12:36 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Patlabb@...

In a message dated 7/1/2004 12:28:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Russell@... writes:

It sounds like Juby was involuntarily removed from the Latter Day Israel group rather than leaving voluntarily? Am I reading this right?

Jerry’s last name is spelled “Methner.” I was a club brother of his at Graceland and know a lot of his cousins, including a cousin who is also Jerry Methner.

Does anybody know of someone who has been an apostle in two groups? The only one I know of is Wayne Bartrow, who was an apostle in the Church of Christ Restored, which began in Michigan in 1987, and recently became an apostle in the Remnant Church.

I'm sorry I don't know why I wanted to call him Metzler...(Senile dementia???)..He is a wonderful person, I stayed with him and his wife Marie some years back when I was visiting Independence. I was then a member of the Restoration Church...according to Richard Weston Marcus left voluntarily from Latter Day Israel but he would have been eventually "put out". Their group is very tiny and Richard tells me it's basically him and another Seventy in the priesthood. They have a few members here and there. There is a very small group that meets here in Charleston, SC where Richard lives. But often Richard and his wife do Church with my family. I am not a member of Richard's group but I am a long time friend of his (he's like another Father to me.). Richard baptized me in the Restoration Church back in '96.

Patrick
www.hometown.aol.com/patlabb

Néanmoins vous êtes béni, pour le témoignage que vous avez porté êtes enregistré dans le ciel pour les anges pour regarder sur, et ils réjouissent par-dessus vous, et vos péchés vous sont pardonné.

http://www.cofchrist.org/

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#356

From: "Stanley M. Shepp" <stanshepp2@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 5:15 pm
Subject: Re: Lee Abramson

I am heading to South Caroline this weekend for a week long vacation just North of Myrtle Beach. I looked up this address - and I don't know if you could be any farther away from Myrtle Beach and still be in South Carolina.

I guess I will not be driving by to visit. :-(

Stan Shepp
York, PA
Center of the Universe
stanshepp@...

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Bill Russell

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:55 AM

Subject: [LDSgroups] Lee Abramson

Jason,

Thanks much. I really need to get in touch with Lee.

Bill

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:37 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Bill,

As you know, all registered corporations in MO are required to file an annual report with the Sec. of State. The 2003 report for the Church of Jesus Christ the Lamb of God lists Abramson as a board member and as president. This is his address:

Alton Lee Abramson

121 Winchester Mill Rd.

Pickens, SC 29671

Hope that helps,

Jason

----- Original Message -----

From: Bill Russell

To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 10:29 AM

Subject: RE: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Do you know how I can get hold of Lee Abramson and Doyle Launius?

Bill Russell

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

#357

From: "Bill Russell" <Russell@...>
Date: Thu Jul 1, 2004 6:01 pm
Subject: RE: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Russell@...

Jeffrey,

Vision magazine is published by Richard Price who runs the Restoration
Bookstore on 23rd St. in Independence.  Vision includes the more
controversial stuff, for example, the last issue has Richard's critiques
of both the Conference of Restoration Elders annual conference as well
as the Community of Christ's biennial conference.  Richard is very
candid is commenting on moves made by various factions when he thinks
they are wrong.  Some of his critics within the restorationist branches
think he is too critical.  I find Vision a valuable source of
information, although it is of course from Richard's perspective.

Bill Russell

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Needle [mailto:jeff.needle@...]
Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:03 AM
To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

Can you tell me a bit more about "Vision" magazine -- who publishes it,

etc.

Thanks.

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:14:51 -0500, Bill Russell <Russell@...>

wrote:

> Jason,
>
> You're probably referring to Vision.  I read it there.  I did hear
from
> a good source that Juby had been ordained prophet a second time - and
I
> believe it was this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  I
> don't know whether he returned to Oklahoma or remained in Blue
Springs,
> MO.
>
> One former apostle in the original Jubyite group - Jerry Methner -
also
> joined the Mormon church, about 2-3 years ago.  I have been told by a
> member of the church that he took a copy of the mailing list with him
> and everyone got a missionary pitch in the mail.
>
> Bill Russell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:47 PM
> To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?
>
> LDSgroupies -
>
> In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is
> mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone
here
> have any verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet
> of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for
> several years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church
of
> Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??
>
> Jason

--

-------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@...
jeff.needle@...

Yahoo! Groups Links

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#358

From: "Jeffrey Needle" <jeff.needle@...>
Date: Fri Jul 2, 2004 2:45 pm
Subject: Re: QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?

jeffreyneedl...

This sounds like something I should be getting.  I didn't see it mentioned
at the website.  I'll try to find it.

Thanks!

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 13:01:58 -0500, Bill Russell <Russell@...>
wrote:

> Jeffrey,
>
> Vision magazine is published by Richard Price who runs the Restoration
> Bookstore on 23rd St. in Independence.  Vision includes the more
> controversial stuff, for example, the last issue has Richard's critiques
> of both the Conference of Restoration Elders annual conference as well
> as the Community of Christ's biennial conference.  Richard is very
> candid is commenting on moves made by various factions when he thinks
> they are wrong.  Some of his critics within the restorationist branches
> think he is too critical.  I find Vision a valuable source of
> information, although it is of course from Richard's perspective.
>
> Bill Russell
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeffrey Needle [mailto:jeff.needle@...]
> Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2004 11:03 AM
> To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?
>
> Can you tell me a bit more about "Vision" magazine -- who publishes it,
>
> etc.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 09:14:51 -0500, Bill Russell <Russell@...>
>
> wrote:
>
>> Jason,
>>
>> You're probably referring to Vision.  I read it there.  I did hear
> from
>> a good source that Juby had been ordained prophet a second time - and
> I
>> believe it was this Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  I
>> don't know whether he returned to Oklahoma or remained in Blue
> Springs,
>> MO.
>>
>> One former apostle in the original Jubyite group - Jerry Methner -
> also
>> joined the Mormon church, about 2-3 years ago.  I have been told by a
>> member of the church that he took a copy of the mailing list with him
>> and everyone got a missionary pitch in the mail.
>>
>> Bill Russell
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jason R. Smith [mailto:jasons@...]
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 11:47 PM
>> To: LDSgroups@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [LDSgroups] QUERY: Marcus Juby joins the Mormon Church?
>>
>> LDSgroupies -
>>
>> In the May 2004 issue (yes, I am sometimes a bit behind), it is
>> mentioned that Juby has joined the LDS/Mormon Church.  Does anyone
> here
>> have any verification of this?  Juby, of course, was president/prophet
>> of the Restoration Church of Jesus of Christ of Latter Day Saints for
>> several years.  I understand that he then affiliated with the Church
> of
>> Jesus Christ of Latter Day Israel.  Anyone??
>>
>> Jason
>
>
>



--

-------------
Jeff Needle
jeff.needle@...
jeff.needle@...

Reply | Messages in this Topic (19)

#359

From: shacg@...
Date: Sat Jul 3, 2004 12:28 am
Subject: Re: Lee Abramson

Stan,

While you're in Myrtle Beach; are you going to go to the House of Blues?

Shane

Reply | Messages in this Topic (3)

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