Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
Kresy-Siberia group:

Recently Nazi victims of forced labour
were paid compensation by German
government and industry.  Do you
think that the families of the
deportees to Siberia should also get
any compensation for their loss of
land and period of forced labour
under the Soviets?

   o No, they have been compensated already
   o No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland  after the War
   o No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
   o Maybe - but don't know how or from whoMaybe - I need to learn more about
this
   o Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
   o Yes - from Poland itself
   o Yes - but don't know how or from who


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Greetings,

I am wondering whether the process of going to the group web
page and "registering" as a Yahoo Groups member in order to
see the poll and the messages is causing people any difficulty.

Please let me know and I may be able to help.  (perhaps you can
e-mail me directly not to clog up other people's inboxes!)

Regards,
Stefan

My server works how {as} wants.?
I think that will get better.
I greet.
Wladyslaw Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: <swisniowski@...>
Do: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Wyslano: 2 pazdziernika 2001 08:16
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] Recent poll


> Greetings,
>
> I am wondering whether the process of going to the group web
> page and "registering" as a Yahoo Groups member in order to
> see the poll and the messages is causing people any difficulty.
>
> Please let me know and I may be able to help.  (perhaps you can
> e-mail me directly not to clog up other people's inboxes!)
>
> Regards,
> Stefan
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----------
From: "Krystine Tomaszyk" <tomaszkc@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 20:58:52 +1200
To: <Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Sybiraki

Stefan,

This message... does not quite refer to the poll and yet may apply to the questions relating to payment of compensation.

Are you aware that Polish citizens who live in Poland do get compensation for having had been deported to the Soviet Union during WW2? It is paid by the Polish government.

I believe that the amount paid is quite reasonable.

By the way, are you also aware that the name 'Sybiraki" refers to all those who had been deported to the S.U.?
I think that the name goes right back to when Russians and then Soviets started deporting Poles to Russia/Soviet Union since 1863, the time of the Polish uprising against Russia when the main focus of deportations were Polish patriots?

What did you, yourself think of the film, 'The Forgotten Odyssey'? Did you use much of the material from 'The Invited' for publicity?  Janek Roy Wojciechowski arranged for the film to be shown in Wellington about two weeks ago. I thought it was very well made.

I enjoy reading the correspondence between members of the group and am most impressed by the depth of the young generation's interest in their past.

Regards,
Krystine

It gives me great pleasure and honour to welcome Jagna Wright to the list.
As you may already know, together with Aneta Naszynska, Jagna produced a
very moving TV documentary in English called "A Forgotten Odyssey".

If you haven't been to the www.AForgottenOdyssey.com website yet, following
is the summary of the film - which is being taken to the Cannes Film
Festival next week!
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

> "A Forgotten Odyssey" is the story - as told by the survivors - of what
> happened after the Soviet invasion of Poland on 17 September 1939 under the
> Nazi-Soviet Friendship Treaty.
>
> These are the stories of the survivors of the forced Soviet annexation of
> eastern Poland, when entire towns and communities were brutally deported to
> Siberia and Kazakhstan to Soviet forced labour camps.  By the time the Nazis
> attacked their Soviet allies in 1941, perhaps half of the labour camp inmates
> had died from disease, starvation, and the harsh labour conditions.
>
> Because the Soviets were brought into the anti-Nazi Alliance, the remaining
> survivors were given an amnesty and many made their way across the vast and
> foreboding Soviet landscape to join the freed Polish Army being formed in the
> south.  This army became a key element of the Allied forces in the European
> South-East, and was evacuated though Iran to join the battle with the Nazis in
> Africa and Italy.
>
> However, despite the defeat of the Nazis, Poland's Soviet enemies ended the
> war on the side of the victors.  The 110,000 citizens and soldiers who had
> escaped from Soviet Russia went on to be refugees from a pre-war Poland who
> could never return home to their former homeland, which was left in Soviet
> Communist hands after the war.
>
> Their Forgotten Odyssey never reached its destination, and they remained a
> people in exile throughout the world.

----- Wiadomość oryginalna -----

Od: Stefan Wisniowski

Do: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

Wysłano: 3 października 2001 18:16

Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] compensation

----------
From: "Krystine Tomaszyk" <tomaszkc@...>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 20:58:52 +1200
To: <Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Sybiraki

Stefan,

This message... does not quite refer to the poll and yet may apply to the questions relating to payment of compensation.

Are you aware that Polish citizens who live in Poland do get compensation for having had been deported to the Soviet Union during WW2? It is paid by the Polish government.

I believe that the amount paid is quite reasonable.

By the way, are you also aware that the name 'Sybiraki" refers to all those who had been deported to the S.U.?
I think that the name goes right back to when Russians and then Soviets started deporting Poles to Russia/Soviet Union since 1863, the time of the Polish uprising against Russia when the main focus of deportations were Polish patriots?

What did you, yourself think of the film, 'The Forgotten Odyssey'? Did you use much of the material from 'The Invited' for publicity?  Janek Roy Wojciechowski arranged for the film to be shown in Wellington about two weeks ago. I thought it was very well made.

I enjoy reading the correspondence between members of the group and am most impressed by the depth of the young generation's interest in their past.

Regards,
Krystine

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP                                
+    Research, Remembrance, Recognition                   
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
+    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com  
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
+    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND 
+    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com 
+    saying who you are and your interest in the group   
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  
+   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com     
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Thanks to Ewa, I have referenced again the recent article on compensation
for Kresy residents who lost their property (not to mention years of - if
not all of - their lives) to the Soviets as a result of the War.

I should note that "citizens" would include all those deported or displaced
during the war who never returned to Poland.

I would welcome your feedback on this, especially from Janusz Giedrojc and
others dealing with compensation issue.  I wonder if it is not "too late" to
register a claim, especially as this seems to be heading into a class-action
of some kind.

Would anybody know how to get in touch with Andrzej Korzeniowski, president
of the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors
(Ogólnopolskie Stowarzyszenie Kresowian Wierzycieli Skarbu Panstwa)?

Thanks
Stefan

Here is the article:

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/v649/News07.html

Warsaw Voice
April 1, 2001 No. 13 (649)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEEPING PROMISES

The Legacy of Relocation

Paradoxically, Poland moved westward immediately following World War II,
when from a geopolitical point of view Poland entered the sphere of
influence of its former eastern neighbor, the Soviet Union.

By virtue of a decision made by the time's great national powers, confirmed
by pacts in Yalta and Potsdam, the borders of the Polish state were
radically changed. Postwar Poland lost its eastern territories, which were
incorporated into the Soviet republics of Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine. In
turn, the country gained land which until 1939 had belonged to Germany. The
decision made by the "big four" resulted not only in changes of state
borders, but also in a huge wave of migration, changing the ethnic make-up
and national status in the Kresy, as Poland's former eastern territories are
called.

The repercussions of those migrations continue to this day. There are many
unsettled matters stemming from those times, including the question of
indemnities for Polish citizens whose property remained beyond the eastern
border.

The communist government of postwar Poland, initially formed on the
territory of the Soviet Union, aimed to make Poland an ethnically uniform
country. The same was true of the objectives of Soviet governments, which
sought to rid themselves of the Polish element in Belarus, Lithuania and
Ukraine. In order to achieve these ends, in 1944 both parties began
organizing great population shifts.

During these dislocations, Belarussians and Ukrainians were shipped East
within the areas defined by the decisions from Yalta. The East, in turn, saw
the displacement of Polish citizens who had lived in the territories which
were incorporated into the Soviet state.

The agreements with Ukraine and Belarus stated that between Sept. 15 and
Oct. 15, 1944, there would be a registration of people willing to resettle,
and the process of resettlement would take place between Oct. 15, 1944, and
Feb. 1, 1945. The agreement with Lithuania assumed slightly different dates:
the registration would be carried out between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31, 1944, and
the relocation was supposed to start Dec. 1, 1944 and continue through April
1, 1945.

The authorities of the Soviet republics were responsible for the
transportation of people, while the costs of transportation were to be
divided between the Soviet Union and Poland. The agreements also stated that
for Polish citizens dislocated from the Kresy, the indemnity for property
left in the East, called zabuz™an´skie (located beyond the Bug River)
property, would be paid by the Polish State Treasury .

Thus the communist government of Poland relieved the authorities of the
Soviet Union from the duty to pay any indemnity to Polish citizens. This was
confirmed in protocols supplementing the agreements of 1944, signed in 1947
on behalf of the government of the Republic of Poland. According to the
contents of the agreements, this was not supposed to be indemnity as such,
but an equivalent payment for property left in the East. This is important,
since the word "equivalent" as interpreted by dislocated populations meant
the exact equivalent of real estate left behind the eastern border of
postwar Poland.

The resettlement action from the East took much longer than had been stated
in the agreements, and involved 1.7 million Polish citizens. These people
were mainly resettled in the western territories of Poland according to its
postwar borders. As the "equivalent" that the Polish-Soviet agreements had
promised, the people dislocated from the East received former German
households in western Poland and urban real estate belonging to the State
Treasury.

Theoretically, the households and real estate distributed among the
newcomers was supposed to be comparable in size to the properties left
behind the eastern border. In practice, however, this was difficult or even
impossible to implement, especially since the agriculture policy of the
communist government stood in the way. The government tried various ways to
establish collective farming in the Polish countryside instead of private
farming. The distribution of big farms among individual farmers thus
contradicted the agriculture policy of the communist authorities.

Similar constraints awaited resettled city dwellers, who received urban real
estate, but only smaller than 220 sq m, a step down for all those who had
left large farms and more valuable real estate beyond the Bug River.

The distribution of equivalent property and compensation was coupled with a
whole range of executive regulations, hindering the State Treasury's
fulfillment of its liabilities to displaced individuals. It's enough to say
that indemnity procedures did not concern the simple allocation of specified
sums, real estate or land, but incorporated the value of the zabuz™an´skie
property, as estimated in the insurance valuation, into the fee for
purchasing buildings and land from the State Treasury, as specified by the
authorities.

In practice, displaced citizens became State Treasury suppliants, and it
depended on the decision of bureaucrats whether the value of the
zabuz™an´skie property was included in the fee for real estate given as
compensation for property lost behind the eastern border. Due to
bureaucratic obstacles, unclear interpretations of executive acts and the
difficulties in obtaining confirmation from Soviet authorities concerning
lost property, the question of indemnities for zabuz™an´skie property was
never finalized by the authorities of communist Poland. Even now, a large
group of citizens has not received any compensation.

The changes brought about in Poland by the events of 1989 revived hopes of
solving the lingering problem among displaced people and their descendants.
According to estimates by both the government and organizations associating
zabuz™an´skie creditors of the Polish State Treasury, there are still around
90,000 petitions for equivalents of property left in the East waiting to be
analyzed and processed.

"This is more or less the number of petitioners who have not yet been given
the chance to satisfy their claims," said Andrzej Korzeniowski, president of
the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors.

The State Treasury creditors had hoped that the reprivatization law would
solve their problems. The law, however, is a dead issue, leaving the
question of indemnity for property left in the East a matter regulated by
the previous legislation, which stems from the agreements made in 1944 and
1947.

This state of affairs by no means satisfies those dislocated from the East.
When vetoing the poorly constructed reprivatization bill, President
Aleksander Kwas´niewski advised residents of the Kresy to seek justice in
court by bringing an class-action suit against the State Treasury. Displaced
people and their descendants say they will follow this advice.

"Since the continuity of Polish statehood is valid, and communist Poland was
an element of the continuity, it is the duty of today's Third Republic of
Poland to fulfill [communist Poland's] liabilities," said Korzeniowski.

Krzysztof Renik

We had a lot of land in around Czortkow/Biala and quite a extensive
property portfolio
in Kopyczynce, all that went up in "smoke" when the Soviets arrived
they "gave my ggran a house of sorts, it can be seen on
http://www.havers-family.co.uk/family_photos.html

Paul

At 04:01 10/04/2001 +1000, you wrote:
>Thanks to Ewa, I have referenced again the recent article on compensation
>for Kresy residents who lost their property (not to mention years of - if
>not all of - their lives) to the Soviets as a result of the War.
>
>I should note that "citizens" would include all those deported or displaced
>during the war who never returned to Poland.
>
>I would welcome your feedback on this, especially from Janusz Giedrojc and
>others dealing with compensation issue.  I wonder if it is not "too late" to
>register a claim, especially as this seems to be heading into a class-action
>of some kind.
>
>Would anybody know how to get in touch with Andrzej Korzeniowski, president
>of the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors
>(Ogólnopolskie Stowarzyszenie Kresowian Wierzycieli Skarbu Panstwa)?
>
>Thanks
>Stefan
>
>Here is the article:
>
>http://www.warsawvoice.pl/v649/News07.html
>
>Warsaw Voice
>April 1, 2001 No. 13 (649)
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>KEEPING PROMISES
>
>The Legacy of Relocation
>
>Paradoxically, Poland moved westward immediately following World War II,
>when from a geopolitical point of view Poland entered the sphere of
>influence of its former eastern neighbor, the Soviet Union.
>
>By virtue of a decision made by the time's great national powers, confirmed
>by pacts in Yalta and Potsdam, the borders of the Polish state were
>radically changed. Postwar Poland lost its eastern territories, which were
>incorporated into the Soviet republics of Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine. In
>turn, the country gained land which until 1939 had belonged to Germany. The
>decision made by the "big four" resulted not only in changes of state
>borders, but also in a huge wave of migration, changing the ethnic make-up
>and national status in the Kresy, as Poland's former eastern territories are
>called.
>
>The repercussions of those migrations continue to this day. There are many
>unsettled matters stemming from those times, including the question of
>indemnities for Polish citizens whose property remained beyond the eastern
>border.
>
>The communist government of postwar Poland, initially formed on the
>territory of the Soviet Union, aimed to make Poland an ethnically uniform
>country. The same was true of the objectives of Soviet governments, which
>sought to rid themselves of the Polish element in Belarus, Lithuania and
>Ukraine. In order to achieve these ends, in 1944 both parties began
>organizing great population shifts.
>
>During these dislocations, Belarussians and Ukrainians were shipped East
>within the areas defined by the decisions from Yalta. The East, in turn, saw
>the displacement of Polish citizens who had lived in the territories which
>were incorporated into the Soviet state.
>
>The agreements with Ukraine and Belarus stated that between Sept. 15 and
>Oct. 15, 1944, there would be a registration of people willing to resettle,
>and the process of resettlement would take place between Oct. 15, 1944, and
>Feb. 1, 1945. The agreement with Lithuania assumed slightly different dates:
>the registration would be carried out between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31, 1944, and
>the relocation was supposed to start Dec. 1, 1944 and continue through April
>1, 1945.
>
>The authorities of the Soviet republics were responsible for the
>transportation of people, while the costs of transportation were to be
>divided between the Soviet Union and Poland. The agreements also stated that
>for Polish citizens dislocated from the Kresy, the indemnity for property
>left in the East, called zabuz™an´skie (located beyond the Bug River)
>property, would be paid by the Polish State Treasury .
>
>Thus the communist government of Poland relieved the authorities of the
>Soviet Union from the duty to pay any indemnity to Polish citizens. This was
>confirmed in protocols supplementing the agreements of 1944, signed in 1947
>on behalf of the government of the Republic of Poland. According to the
>contents of the agreements, this was not supposed to be indemnity as such,
>but an equivalent payment for property left in the East. This is important,
>since the word "equivalent" as interpreted by dislocated populations meant
>the exact equivalent of real estate left behind the eastern border of
>postwar Poland.
>
>The resettlement action from the East took much longer than had been stated
>in the agreements, and involved 1.7 million Polish citizens. These people
>were mainly resettled in the western territories of Poland according to its
>postwar borders. As the "equivalent" that the Polish-Soviet agreements had
>promised, the people dislocated from the East received former German
>households in western Poland and urban real estate belonging to the State
>Treasury.
>
>Theoretically, the households and real estate distributed among the
>newcomers was supposed to be comparable in size to the properties left
>behind the eastern border. In practice, however, this was difficult or even
>impossible to implement, especially since the agriculture policy of the
>communist government stood in the way. The government tried various ways to
>establish collective farming in the Polish countryside instead of private
>farming. The distribution of big farms among individual farmers thus
>contradicted the agriculture policy of the communist authorities.
>
>Similar constraints awaited resettled city dwellers, who received urban real
>estate, but only smaller than 220 sq m, a step down for all those who had
>left large farms and more valuable real estate beyond the Bug River.
>
>The distribution of equivalent property and compensation was coupled with a
>whole range of executive regulations, hindering the State Treasury's
>fulfillment of its liabilities to displaced individuals. It's enough to say
>that indemnity procedures did not concern the simple allocation of specified
>sums, real estate or land, but incorporated the value of the zabuz™an´skie
>property, as estimated in the insurance valuation, into the fee for
>purchasing buildings and land from the State Treasury, as specified by the
>authorities.
>
>In practice, displaced citizens became State Treasury suppliants, and it
>depended on the decision of bureaucrats whether the value of the
>zabuz™an´skie property was included in the fee for real estate given as
>compensation for property lost behind the eastern border. Due to
>bureaucratic obstacles, unclear interpretations of executive acts and the
>difficulties in obtaining confirmation from Soviet authorities concerning
>lost property, the question of indemnities for zabuz™an´skie property was
>never finalized by the authorities of communist Poland. Even now, a large
>group of citizens has not received any compensation.
>
>The changes brought about in Poland by the events of 1989 revived hopes of
>solving the lingering problem among displaced people and their descendants.
>According to estimates by both the government and organizations associating
>zabuz™an´skie creditors of the Polish State Treasury, there are still around
>90,000 petitions for equivalents of property left in the East waiting to be
>analyzed and processed.
>
>"This is more or less the number of petitioners who have not yet been given
>the chance to satisfy their claims," said Andrzej Korzeniowski, president of
>the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors.
>
>The State Treasury creditors had hoped that the reprivatization law would
>solve their problems. The law, however, is a dead issue, leaving the
>question of indemnity for property left in the East a matter regulated by
>the previous legislation, which stems from the agreements made in 1944 and
>1947.
>
>This state of affairs by no means satisfies those dislocated from the East.
>When vetoing the poorly constructed reprivatization bill, President
>Aleksander Kwas´niewski advised residents of the Kresy to seek justice in
>court by bringing an class-action suit against the State Treasury. Displaced
>people and their descendants say they will follow this advice.
>
>"Since the continuity of Polish statehood is valid, and communist Poland was
>an element of the continuity, it is the duty of today's Third Republic of
>Poland to fulfill [communist Poland's] liabilities," said Korzeniowski.
>
>Krzysztof Renik
>
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
>+    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
>+    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
>+    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
>+    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>+    saying who you are and your interest in the group
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>+   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Home page;   www.havers-family.co.uk
Eastern Borderlands of II RP;   www.kresy.co.uk
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This message has been checked for all known Viruses
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Researching; Glebowski, Paprocki, Skikiewicz, Szostak
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Welcome to Jan Birkner. Family from Kresy (pre-WW1 Galicia), deported to
both Siberia and Kazakhstan (in 1940-41, I presume).

Jan, to get a quick primer on this (more like "drinking from a fire hose")
please visit our associated site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com and check out the
links page.  The history of the 1.7 million Poles deported to Russia and the
Soviet Union for forced labour and death is a shocking and little-recognised
one.  That's why our motto is "research, remembrance, recognition".

Again, welcome!
----------
> From: JCBSERV@...
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:51:56 EDT
>
> Dear Stefan,
>
> Someone on either the Russian or one of the Polish lists suggested that I join
> this group, since my grandmother's family was sent to Siberia.  Strangely
> enough, my grandfather's family was also sent to the camps, but they went to
> Kazakhstan!  What a bunch!! No wonder NOBODY in the world knows anything about
> either of them!
>
> I have been doing genealogy for about 19 years, researching in Poland,
> Ukraine, Prussia , and Denmark, as well as MA and NJ in the US.  My heritage
> is Polish back to about the 1700s, when a small group of Germans came to
> Poland to settle.  One of them became a Roman Catholic and married a Polish
> girl.  All of the rest of my family are from Poland, as far back as I can
> find, anyway.  Some were in Eastern Galicia, which is now western Ukraine, so
> I have been looking there as well.  My husband's ancestors are mostly Danish,
> except for his maternal grandmother, who was born out of wedlock in East
> Prussia.  She was given her mother's name, Ewert, and later, her father and
> mother married, and had a son.
>
> One of my living cousins was sent to Siberia as a child.  She, her parents and
> her 2 younger sisters.  Her sisters both died, but she and her parents
> survived, and came to the US in the 50's some time.  I remember her arrival,
> but not the year.  Of course, at the time,  I didn't know the significance of
> the phrase, Displaced Person!  I spoke with her about 3 years ago, about her
> experiences.  She said she was only a child then, and children don't really
> realize what is going on around them.  She had no clear memories of the camps.
> Except that when they were released, they were afraid to go back to their
> home, and afraid to go deeper into Poland, so they WALKED to Iran.  From
> there, they  ended up in England, and somehow contacted my dad, who worked for
> Gdynia America line at the time, and he arranged for their their emigration to
> the US.
>
> Jan Birkner

I proudly announce the premiere of the documentary film
"Rescued from Death in Siberia" at 2.p.m, Saturday, Oct.13,
at Zwiazkowiec at 1650 Bloor St.W, Toronto.

I invite all those who are in the area to attend.

I had the pleasure of conducting the interviews with survivors
of the deportations from Poland to Siberia and elsewhere in
the USSR. The documentary is in English and focuses on those who
settled in the Toronto area.

I have only seen snippets of the film and I also don't know who
will be attending. I will pass on details re availablity and
distribution of the film to anyone who is interested.

I don't know if our film will make it to the BBC, CBC, or PBS, but
screenings of it and "A Forgotten Odyssey" and other films are
reaching a wider audience.

I second the idea of "Siberian" screenings.

Thank You,
Chris Gladun, Toronto

Chris,

I would be interested in information about distribution of the film.
Who produced this film?

thanks,

Don Dudley



>I proudly announce the premiere of the documentary film
>"Rescued from Death in Siberia" at 2.p.m, Saturday, Oct.13,
>at Zwiazkowiec at 1650 Bloor St.W, Toronto.
>
>I invite all those who are in the area to attend.
>
>I had the pleasure of conducting the interviews with survivors
>of the deportations from Poland to Siberia and elsewhere in
>the USSR. The documentary is in English and focuses on those who
>settled in the Toronto area.
>
>I have only seen snippets of the film and I also don't know who
>will be attending. I will pass on details re availablity and
>distribution of the film to anyone who is interested.
>
>I don't know if our film will make it to the BBC, CBC, or PBS, but
>screenings of it and "A Forgotten Odyssey" and other films are
>reaching a wider audience.
>
>I second the idea of "Siberian" screenings.
>
>Thank You,
>Chris Gladun, Toronto
>
>
>
>
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
>+    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>+    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
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>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Donald Dudley djdudley@...
Judicial Officer

Student Judicial Affairs
3200 Dutton Hall
University of California, Davis
One Shields Avenue
Davis CA 95616

Visit the SJA web pages: 	 http://sja.ucdavis.edu/

530.752.1128   office
530.754.6195  fax

Visit
http://go.to/polishclaims
or
http://polishclaims.isuisse.com

Janusz GIEDROJC

PS
prevoius mails to "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" didn't
succeed !?
_________________________________________________________
Le journal des abonnés Caramail - http://www.carazine.com

The film is owned by the producer Michael Adamski who has produced
and shot numerous films in Poland and Canada, concentrating on
historical and travel themes.

He has sold copies of " Rescued from Death in Siberia" to the Toronto
Public Library and to the Montreal Polish Library at McGill
University in Montreal. We have hopes it will be shown be on a local
TV program 'Polish Studio'.

Toronto Councilor Chris Korwin-Kuczynski, Professor Wrobel of the
University of Toronto and the president of the Polish-Canadian
Congress have confirmed they will attend the premiere at Zwiazkowiec
Oct. 13, 1650 Bloor St.W, Toronto, 2 p.m.

A video copy of "Rescued from Death in Siberia" is $25.00 plus
postage. Contact Michael Adamski at madamski@...

Chris Gladun, Toronto

Thanks to Ewa, I have referenced again the recent article on compensation
for Kresy residents who lost their property (not to mention years of - if
not all of - their lives) to the Soviets as a result of the War.

I should note that "citizens" would include all those deported or displaced
during the war who never returned to Poland.

I would welcome your feedback on this, especially from Janusz Giedrojc and
others dealing with compensation issue.  I wonder if it is not "too late" to
register a claim, especially as this seems to be heading into a class-action
of some kind.

Would anybody know how to get in touch with Andrzej Korzeniowski, president
of the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors
(Ogólnopolskie Stowarzyszenie Kresowian Wierzycieli Skarbu Panstwa)?

Thanks
Stefan

Here is the article:

http://www.warsawvoice.pl/v649/News07.html

Warsaw Voice
April 1, 2001 No. 13 (649)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

KEEPING PROMISES

The Legacy of Relocation

Paradoxically, Poland moved westward immediately following World War II,
when from a geopolitical point of view Poland entered the sphere of
influence of its former eastern neighbor, the Soviet Union.

By virtue of a decision made by the time's great national powers, confirmed
by pacts in Yalta and Potsdam, the borders of the Polish state were
radically changed. Postwar Poland lost its eastern territories, which were
incorporated into the Soviet republics of Belarus, Lithuania and Ukraine. In
turn, the country gained land which until 1939 had belonged to Germany. The
decision made by the "big four" resulted not only in changes of state
borders, but also in a huge wave of migration, changing the ethnic make-up
and national status in the Kresy, as Poland's former eastern territories are
called.

The repercussions of those migrations continue to this day. There are many
unsettled matters stemming from those times, including the question of
indemnities for Polish citizens whose property remained beyond the eastern
border.

The communist government of postwar Poland, initially formed on the
territory of the Soviet Union, aimed to make Poland an ethnically uniform
country. The same was true of the objectives of Soviet governments, which
sought to rid themselves of the Polish element in Belarus, Lithuania and
Ukraine. In order to achieve these ends, in 1944 both parties began
organizing great population shifts.

During these dislocations, Belarussians and Ukrainians were shipped East
within the areas defined by the decisions from Yalta. The East, in turn, saw
the displacement of Polish citizens who had lived in the territories which
were incorporated into the Soviet state.

The agreements with Ukraine and Belarus stated that between Sept. 15 and
Oct. 15, 1944, there would be a registration of people willing to resettle,
and the process of resettlement would take place between Oct. 15, 1944, and
Feb. 1, 1945. The agreement with Lithuania assumed slightly different dates:
the registration would be carried out between Oct. 1 and Dec. 31, 1944, and
the relocation was supposed to start Dec. 1, 1944 and continue through April
1, 1945.

The authorities of the Soviet republics were responsible for the
transportation of people, while the costs of transportation were to be
divided between the Soviet Union and Poland. The agreements also stated that
for Polish citizens dislocated from the Kresy, the indemnity for property
left in the East, called zabuz™an´skie (located beyond the Bug River)
property, would be paid by the Polish State Treasury .

Thus the communist government of Poland relieved the authorities of the
Soviet Union from the duty to pay any indemnity to Polish citizens. This was
confirmed in protocols supplementing the agreements of 1944, signed in 1947
on behalf of the government of the Republic of Poland. According to the
contents of the agreements, this was not supposed to be indemnity as such,
but an equivalent payment for property left in the East. This is important,
since the word "equivalent" as interpreted by dislocated populations meant
the exact equivalent of real estate left behind the eastern border of
postwar Poland.

The resettlement action from the East took much longer than had been stated
in the agreements, and involved 1.7 million Polish citizens. These people
were mainly resettled in the western territories of Poland according to its
postwar borders. As the "equivalent" that the Polish-Soviet agreements had
promised, the people dislocated from the East received former German
households in western Poland and urban real estate belonging to the State
Treasury.

Theoretically, the households and real estate distributed among the
newcomers was supposed to be comparable in size to the properties left
behind the eastern border. In practice, however, this was difficult or even
impossible to implement, especially since the agriculture policy of the
communist government stood in the way. The government tried various ways to
establish collective farming in the Polish countryside instead of private
farming. The distribution of big farms among individual farmers thus
contradicted the agriculture policy of the communist authorities.

Similar constraints awaited resettled city dwellers, who received urban real
estate, but only smaller than 220 sq m, a step down for all those who had
left large farms and more valuable real estate beyond the Bug River.

The distribution of equivalent property and compensation was coupled with a
whole range of executive regulations, hindering the State Treasury's
fulfillment of its liabilities to displaced individuals. It's enough to say
that indemnity procedures did not concern the simple allocation of specified
sums, real estate or land, but incorporated the value of the zabuz™an´skie
property, as estimated in the insurance valuation, into the fee for
purchasing buildings and land from the State Treasury, as specified by the
authorities.

In practice, displaced citizens became State Treasury suppliants, and it
depended on the decision of bureaucrats whether the value of the
zabuz™an´skie property was included in the fee for real estate given as
compensation for property lost behind the eastern border. Due to
bureaucratic obstacles, unclear interpretations of executive acts and the
difficulties in obtaining confirmation from Soviet authorities concerning
lost property, the question of indemnities for zabuz™an´skie property was
never finalized by the authorities of communist Poland. Even now, a large
group of citizens has not received any compensation.

The changes brought about in Poland by the events of 1989 revived hopes of
solving the lingering problem among displaced people and their descendants.
According to estimates by both the government and organizations associating
zabuz™an´skie creditors of the Polish State Treasury, there are still around
90,000 petitions for equivalents of property left in the East waiting to be
analyzed and processed.

"This is more or less the number of petitioners who have not yet been given
the chance to satisfy their claims," said Andrzej Korzeniowski, president of
the Polish Society of the Kresy Residents-State Treasury Creditors.

The State Treasury creditors had hoped that the reprivatization law would
solve their problems. The law, however, is a dead issue, leaving the
question of indemnity for property left in the East a matter regulated by
the previous legislation, which stems from the agreements made in 1944 and
1947.

This state of affairs by no means satisfies those dislocated from the East.
When vetoing the poorly constructed reprivatization bill, President
Aleksander Kwas´niewski advised residents of the Kresy to seek justice in
court by bringing an class-action suit against the State Treasury. Displaced
people and their descendants say they will follow this advice.

"Since the continuity of Polish statehood is valid, and communist Poland was
an element of the continuity, it is the duty of today's Third Republic of
Poland to fulfill [communist Poland's] liabilities," said Korzeniowski.

Krzysztof Renik


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Knyha Pamiati Ukrainy means book of Ukrainian remembrance or memory.
Jaworov (Polish) = Javirov (Ukrainian) . This town, designated in Russian as
Javorov is just other side of the Polish-Ukrainian border.
Nachaczow (Polish) = Nahaciv (Ukrainian). Not on map.
Did not find a place called Kremenske in a detailed atlas.
There is a Kremenska Klisura  in Western Bulgaria near the border with
Macedonia. It seems to be some Ridge of other topographical designation.
Ed Tarchalski

----- Original Message -----
> Hi Stefan,
>
> Thank you for not putting the last bit of my letter to you, on the list!
>
> Alan Szuch is a fellow on the list mailto:such@... - that has a
book
> called 'Knyha Pamaiti Ukrainy - published by Oblast, from the Ukranian
> bookstore in Edmonton. I'm not quite sure what type of book this is, but
it
> does seem to have names, where and when died, where buried, missing
persons
> names, date etc in it. He did a look-up for me and said 'as I'd been
> BOTHERED' to find out that Jaworow was Javoriv, Nachaczow was Nahaciv - he
> would do the look-up' - nice, I thought, I mailed him again to get more
> details on the book - nothing!
>
> Interesting thing, all these STAKHNYK's [my spelling - STACHNIK] were all
> buried in Kresnenske, wonder where that is?
>
> You're in Australia, I'm in England, the bookshop is in Canada - I think
> maybe Paul Havers or someone else on the list's may have a copy, I'll put
> the word out. Maybe there's something in it to give us all some help.
>
> I'm going on holiday on 29th? [Washington, USA] so I will un-subscribe
fron
> this email address and when I come back [hopefully?], I will re-subscribe
at
> a new email address - but I don't want to loose your list. I think I will
> learn heaps - best of luck with it - but I don't go till 29th, so keep
> posting please
>
> Linder
>
>
>
>
>





Kresy-Siberia Group - Research, Rememberance, Recognition

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Hi Jan - I am putting this response out to the list to see if anybody has
info on the town of KORZEC.

It may be worth your while to get back to our site at
www.AForgottenOdyssey.com, as it is in English and most of the sites on the
links page are in English.

Some of the sites are in Polish - and many in Poland do not speak English.
However, I speak both and many people on the Kresy-Siberia list speak both.
We can always help translate things.

If you put some specific requests to the group, I'm sure that somebody will
try to help you!
Regards,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

From: JCBSERV@...
Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:47:21 EDT

Dear Stefan,

I checked out the website, and it broke my heart!  IT's all in Polish, which
I do not read or speak.  Is there a chance that it might be someday
translated to English, for us who are looking for our families from the US?
I did try to read the Wolyn pages, and I did see that Korzec, where my
family is from was mentioned, but I couldn't make anything of the rest of
the page!  Is there a contact, someone I could write to in English to find
out about my family?

Thank you,

Jan Birkner

========Original Message========
Subj:   Introducing Jan Birkner
Date:   10/04/01 2:11:02 AM Eastern Daylight Time
From:    swisniowski@... (Stefan Wisniowski)
To:    Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, JCBSERV@...

Welcome to Jan Birkner. Family from Kresy (pre-WW1 Galicia), deported to
both Siberia and Kazakhstan (in 1940-41, I presume).

Jan, to get a quick primer on this (more like "drinking from a fire hose")
please visit our associated site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com and check out the
links page.  The history of the 1.7 million Poles deported to Russia and the
Soviet Union for forced labour and death is a shocking and little-recognised
one.  That's why our motto is "research, remembrance, recognition".

Again, welcome!
----------
> From: JCBSERV@...
> Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 18:51:56 EDT
>
> Dear Stefan,
>
> Someone on either the Russian or one of the Polish lists suggested that I join
> this group, since my grandmother's family was sent to Siberia.  Strangely
> enough, my grandfather's family was also sent to the camps, but they went to
> Kazakhstan!  What a bunch!! No wonder NOBODY in the world knows anything about
> either of them!
>
> I have been doing genealogy for about 19 years, researching in Poland,
> Ukraine, Prussia , and Denmark, as well as MA and NJ in the US.  My heritage
> is Polish back to about the 1700s, when a small group of Germans came to
> Poland to settle.  One of them became a Roman Catholic and married a Polish
> girl.  All of the rest of my family are from Poland, as far back as I can
> find, anyway.  Some were in Eastern Galicia, which is now western Ukraine, so
> I have been looking there as well.  My husband's ancestors are mostly Danish,
> except for his maternal grandmother, who was born out of wedlock in East
> Prussia.  She was given her mother's name, Ewert, and later, her father and
> mother married, and had a son.
>
> One of my living cousins was sent to Siberia as a child.  She, her parents and
> her 2 younger sisters.  Her sisters both died, but she and her parents
> survived, and came to the US in the 50's some time.  I remember her arrival,
> but not the year.  Of course, at the time,  I didn't know the significance of
> the phrase, Displaced Person!  I spoke with her about 3 years ago, about her
> experiences.  She said she was only a child then, and children don't really
> realize what is going on around them.  She had no clear memories of the camps.
> Except that when they were released, they were afraid to go back to their
> home, and afraid to go deeper into Poland, so they WALKED to Iran.  From
> there, they  ended up in England, and somehow contacted my dad, who worked for
> Gdynia America line at the time, and he arranged for their their emigration to
> the US.
>
> Jan Birkner



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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 16:10:07 +1000
Subject: Introducing Jan Birkner
From: Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...>
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----------
From: "Michael Adamski" <madamski@...>
Reply-To: "Michael Adamski" <madamski@...>
Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 11:32:10 -0400
To: <swisniowski@...>
Subject: Rescued from Death in Siberia

Dear Stefan Wisniowski
I checked your website on " A Forgotten Odyssey" and think that in 'The Odyssey' and my film there would be certain similarities. Anyway 'Rescued from Death in Siberia' is 82 min.Long. Is based on several interviews of former deportees to Siberia presently living in Canada and interposed with archival footage and commetary explaining the facts on the little known tragedy of close to 2 million people deported in the Years 1939-40 from Eastern Poland to Siberia.
To order a  copy of the video ( to view it In Australia it has to be in PAl system, here we have NTSC. I have them in both) I would accept Can. $ 25 plus $15 for air postage M.O. or even personal cheque on any bank in Canada. If you send one in US funds of course it would be less.
Speaking of websites I have one  www.globalseve.net/~emiliat/mdavideo.htm <http://www.globalseve.net/~emiliat/mdavideo.htm>
but the 'Rescued from Death in Siberia' is till not in it.
Wish you all the best in your work and internet i serdeczne pozdrowienia
                  Michael Adamski
                  611/10 Edgecliffe Golfway
                  Toronto, ON   M3C 3A3
                   Canada
     E-mail: madamski@...

Dear Michael:

Thanks for the newsletter, I really appreciate it.

Yours truy,

Ron B
--
___________________________________________________________________
Noted Military Historian and retired Air Force Captain, Prof. Z.
Wesolowski,  has 2,000 items of militaria, medals, and books for sale.
These items are worth about $250,000 wholesale. Check out the following
two websites for more information.
http://www.tmcx.com/polish1.htm
http://www.wwdir.com/polishbk.html
___________________________________________________________________
Noted Economics and Political Science lecturer Miron Rezon has a new
book published called "Europe's Nightmare: The Struggle for Kosovo."
This book exposes the events that occurred during the 1999 War in
Kosovo. The URL is http://www.dreamcatcher.nb.ca/mrezun.html
____________________________________________________________________

Welcome to the list, Mark.  Perhaps I am near one of your relatives, if they
are near Sydney, in Australia.
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

----------
> From: "Mark Okopny" <mokopny@...>
> Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:15:38 -0500
>
> I have a very rare surname (Okopny). My grandfather Maksym came from Narayiv
> Ukraine (then Narajow Austria) around 1911. This village is located 60 km
> southeast of L'viv. Between famine, war, forced labor, and deportation, the
> events of the 20th century scattered my family to the wind. I am trying to
> sort thru and pick up the pieces.
>
> So far I am in email contact with an Okopny in Toronto, London, Poland,
> Moscow, Krasnodar Russia. I have located records of others to Argentina,
> Brazil, and forced resettlement to Australia.
>
> Mark Okopny
> Chicago, Illinois.
> United States

Please welcome Richard Sochacki from Australia to the group.  He promises to
tell us a bit more about his family connections shortly!
Regards,
Stefan

--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

----------
> From: "Richard Sochacki" <sochacki@...>
> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:37:10 +0800
> To: <swisniowski@...>
> Subject: Re: Kresy-Siberia
>
> Dear Stefan
>
> My apologies for not responding to your earlier message.  I will try to
> during the coming weekend.  At the  moment I am snowed under with work.  By
> way of a foretaste, my father and his family were deported from Poland early
> in 1940.
>
> Regards
>
> Richard Sochacki

I want to share the enclosed email I just received from a woman
in Kolhapur, India who had read my mother's memoirs and letters
on my website: www.polandsholocaust.com/memoir2.html

From 1942-1948 there was a large Polish refugee camp at Valivade-
Kolhapur that included my mother Janina Sulkowska and
her father Jan Sulkowski who arrived in May 1947.
He taught in the Business School and was Director of the
Co-operative Zgoda. My mother edited the "Sloniatko Indijeskie"
and also taught. She also took a course in Comsetology which
she never used. They left for England in February 1948.

I was both amazed and moved by this Indian woman's empathy
and interest and by her request that comes some 54 years after
the fact to my mother who died in 1997 at age 83. My mother
often joked that she had never had a chance to use her
training in cosmetology and hygiene--until now I must add.
In fact Janka's advice is to her mother struggling to make ends
meet in Poland to where she returned from Kazakhstan in 1946.
I really didn't know how to answer this woman but I thanked
and blessed her:


"Hi! Janka
I am Dinesh. Iam an Indian. I have read some of your letters.
I felt happy during later part of your stay and sad during the
early stages of your life. Actually, I read your letters, because
I havelot of intrest in knowing the past.
One more thing, I am very much intrested in
getting the medicine(lotion) you have. If u could
tell me where i can get it in Kholahapur, I will buy it.

I quote a small paragraph from your letter.
'I completed a course in Modern Cosmetology &
Hygiene with "very good" in Polish and English--but I
don't know where it will be valid. Mama you must try my regenerator
for white hair which I'm sending. It's wonderful and it won't
leave your hair violet or green as was the case!
When you get my lotions tell everyone that they are secret
potions from India (people love the exotic!).'"

Chris Gladun. Toronto

p.s this email is also an example of the power of the internet
and its ability to make the past seem almost immediate--which
is both good and bad.

Welcome to Grace!
Stefan
----------------------------
Hi,
My name is Grace Pundyk and I have just started researching my father's
family history - thus have come across your site. My father, Stanislaw Josef
Pundyk  was born in Kolomyja in 1921. In 1940 his mother, Zofia (nee)
Stratkowska was taken to a camp in Kazakhstan, though I have no idea where
and I think this is where she died though I do remember vague stories of her
escaping and being recaptured. My grandfather was a sergeant in the Polish
army. I don't know what he did during the war but he ended up immigrating to
Scotland. I gather he was already away when the Russians came in 1940 as my
grandmother was taken to Kazakhstan alone. My father had been sent (by the
Polish government?) to Switzerland as an intern to study and so he never saw
his mother again. He immigrated to Australia where he tried to close the
chapter of this tragic part of his life. He never talked very much about the
war but I knew he was terrified at the thought of the then Polish communist
government tracing his whereabouts and taking him back to Poland. The story
goes that he was one of eleven students selected and sent to Switzerland by
the Polish government who then expected them to return to help re-build the
new state. Don't know how true this is - if anyone can verify this or not
would be great.

Grace Pundyk
grace@...

Hi,
I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.  So please, express
you opinion by going to
and going to the Polls link.  You may need to register with Yahoo,
but this is a one-time process that takes only  a short time then
gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.

Regards,
Stefan


Here is the poll:
"Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
by German government and industry. Do you think that the
families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
under the Soviets?

-  No, they have been compensated already
  - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
the War
  - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
  - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
  - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
  - Yes - from Poland itself
  - Yes - but don't know how or from who "

Sorry - I left the website address off:
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia

----------
So please, express your opinion by going to
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia and going to the Polls link.
You may need to register with Yahoo, but this is a one-time process that
takes only  a short time then gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.

Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
Wladyslaw Czapski
----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
Od: <swisniowski@...>
Do: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Wyslano: 10 pazdziernika 2001 18:29
Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct


> Hi,
> I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
> 5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.  So please, express
> you opinion by going to
> and going to the Polls link.  You may need to register with Yahoo,
> but this is a one-time process that takes only  a short time then
> gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.
>
> Regards,
> Stefan
>
>
> Here is the poll:
> "Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
> by German government and industry. Do you think that the
> families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
> compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
> under the Soviets?
>
> - No, they have been compensated already
>  - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
> the War
>  - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
>  - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
>  - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
>  - Yes - from Poland itself
>  - Yes - but don't know how or from who "
>
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Panie Czapski, czy Pan zna angielski??? Z Pana odpowiedzi wyglada ze nie.
     Spotkalismy sie na zjezdzie afrykanczykow we Wroclawiu pare lat temu,
chyba w 1998roku. Pan zrobil pare zdjec i podal na swojej stronie.
Pozdrowienia
Edward Tarchalski



----- Original Message -----
From: Wladyslaw Czapski <biorytm@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct


> Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
> Wladyslaw Czapski
> ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
> Od: <swisniowski@...>
> Do: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
> Wyslano: 10 pazdziernika 2001 18:29
> Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
> > 5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.  So please, express
> > you opinion by going to
> > and going to the Polls link.  You may need to register with Yahoo,
> > but this is a one-time process that takes only  a short time then
> > gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stefan
> >
> >
> > Here is the poll:
> > "Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
> > by German government and industry. Do you think that the
> > families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
> > compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
> > under the Soviets?
> >
> > - No, they have been compensated already
> >  - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
> > the War
> >  - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
> >  - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
> >  - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
> >  - Yes - from Poland itself
> >  - Yes - but don't know how or from who "
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> > +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> > +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> > +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Wladyslaw Czapski <biorytm@...>
To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 12:48 PM
Subject: Odp: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct


> Ja nie moge odpowiedziec na pytania bo duzo nie rozumiem.
> Wladyslaw Czapski
> ----- Wiadomosc oryginalna -----
> Od: <swisniowski@...>
> Do: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
> Wyslano: 10 pazdziernika 2001 18:29
> Temat: [Kresy-Siberia] First group poll closes 12 Oct
>
>
> > Hi,
> > I have received 5 answers to this poll, and will be concluding it at
> > 5pm New York time on Friday 12 October.  So please, express
> > you opinion by going to
> > and going to the Polls link.  You may need to register with Yahoo,
> > but this is a one-time process that takes only  a short time then
> > gives you access to the archives, photos, etc.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Stefan
> >
> >
> > Here is the poll:
> > "Recently Nazi victims of forced labour were paid compensation
> > by German government and industry. Do you think that the
> > families of the deportees to Siberia should also get any
> > compensation for their loss of land and period of forced labour
> > under the Soviets?
> >
> > - No, they have been compensated already
> >  - No, they lost that right when they didn't go back to Poland after
> > the War
> >  - No, it may not be just but we need to move on with the future
> >  - Maybe - I need to learn more about this
> >  - Yes - from the countries of the former USSR
> >  - Yes - from Poland itself
> >  - Yes - but don't know how or from who "
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> > +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> > +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> > +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> > +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> > +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP
> +    Research, Remembrance, Recognition
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Website:  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    Replies to this message will go directly to the full list.
> +    Send e-mails to:  Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +    To Subscribe, send a blank e-mail to:
> +    Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com AND
> +    a message to Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
> +    saying who you are and your interest in the group
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> +   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> +   Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Witamy!  Welcome to Joe,

Can anybody help Joe with these questions?
Joe, like you, I have a desire to go to the land of my fathers.  In my case,
this is now in Ukraine just outside Brody.  There are also discussions about
excursions to Persia, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, and the other places on their
"odyssey".  I wonder how those plans will all unfold given current events in
this part of the world?

Joe, for a lot of material on this whole tragic episode, please visit the
site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com.

Welcome again!
Stefan
----------
> From: Joe Zelwietro <deplib@...>
>
> Hello Stefan:
> I'm happy to introduce myself, although the more I find out about this
> matter, the sadder and angrier I get.
>
> My name is Joe Zelwietro (actually it's Z with a dot above it).  I have
> been exploring my heritage and my father's life before he settled in
> Canada.  I am using the Internet as a discovery tool because my father
> is dead.  It was especially sad, because he died before Poland had
> regained her freedom in 1989, but I know he was not unique in that
> respect.  My father was a good man, but he was reluctant to speak of the
> time between 1939 and 1942.  He was one of the many who was taken
> prisoner by the Soviets from Wilno area and ended up a decorated soldier
> in the Polish 2nd Corps, but also a man without a country.
>
> I want to go there and see where he is from and show my children where
> their grandfather came from.  While there are many things I want to know
> I am joining this list with the hope that other members can help me with
> two specific questions.
>
> Is there anybody who has knows a Zelwietro, Zelwietr, Zelwetra, or
> Zelwetro? (Remember that's Z with a dot)
>
> Where is my father's village now?
> He was born in Bortkiewiecze powiat Oszmina woj. Wilno
> I know this area is in Lithuania now, but that's all I know.
>
> If anybody can help I would be greatly indebted,
>
> Thank you,
> Joe Zelwietro
>
>
> I have been in contact with various people who have been helpful in
> several ways, but not totally.

Witamy,
Welcome Mark!

I hope that this group can offer you some assistance as we all try to piece
together the details of what happened and why.  Many of us have bits and
pieces of the puzzle.  I wish I had started this research when I lived in
Canada, where there are more "Sybiracy" than in Australia, but the power of
the internet is such that we have members from countries across the globe.

In any case, for a lot of material on this whole tragic episode, please
visit the site www.AForgottenOdyssey.com and check out the links.

Regards,
Pozdrawiam,
--
Stefan Wisniowski
Moderator, Kresy-Siberia


----------
> From: "markt" <markt@...>
> Reply-To: <markt@...>
> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:24:11 +0100
> To: "Stefan Wisniowski"  <swisniowski@...>
> Subject: Interest in group
>
> Dear Stefan,
> I came across your group from the Yahoo Polish chat group.
>
> My interest is that my late father Edmund Terech was deported to Archangielsk
> along with both his parents. From there he joined the Polish army when it was
> being formed, serving in the 2nd Korpus, 5th Kresowa Dywizja Piechoty, 5
> Kresowa Baon C.K.M. with whom he fought with at Monte Cassino. After Italy he
> settled in England.
>
> My mother Krystina Kornecka was deported to Uralsk with her parents and her 2
> brothers. When the Polish army was being formed her father joined the army and
> both her brothers joined the cadets My mother along with her mother and
> Grandmother were then sent to Africa (Camp Ifundi) afterwards settling in
> England were she met my father.
>
> My Father in Law Ludwik Rudkowski along with his mother and 2 sisters were
> deported to Semipalatinsk (his father was a policeman in Poland and was
> arrested earlier) He also joined the Army and served in the Parachute
> Regiment.
>
> This is just a brief outline I am in the process of recording there lives for
> my children to read. Hope your group might be of some help I will give details
> of the villages they were born etc.etc. in aa later e-mail
>
> Regards
> Mark