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  • Members: 1184
  • Category: Poland
  • Founded: Sep 18, 2001
  • Language: English
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#54535 From: "Lenarda Szymczak" <szymczak01@...>
Date: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:28 pm
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
lenardaszymczak
Send Email Send Email
 

The accent in speech,  is how Ukrainian speaking Polish, talk today, without the profanities of course, but using this style of grammar and one word running into the next. 

 

At home, we speak different to the you-tube version, separating each word and annunciating the vowels, even in quick speech. 

 

This  video is village Polish at its best, old village Polish which is still spoken today.

 

Someone else have a listen and give your version, as same thing, is understood many different ways by many different people.

 

Lenarda, Australia

 

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January, 2013 4:01 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

I dont speak Polish but I think I understood many words and my ears hurt.

 

Mark T.
Canada

From: ryszardsys <ryszardsys@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 10:53:56 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

I know I shouldn't but if you google "youtube pieniadze za las", there is an old lady on the telephone giving a fair account of old Polish!!!!!

Not for the faint hearted.

Rys
UK

--- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, Mark wrote:
>
> This occurs in Canada too.
> Polish immigrants dont know and dismiss interest in the past.
> Clearly the brainwashing continued long after the war.
> The ones that were born here have shown curiousity, but their parents prefer to talk about today.
>
> Mark T.
> Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Zenon Kuzik
> To: "mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com"
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:16:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>
>  
>
> Dear Basia,
>
> What a great reply - thank you!  Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.
>
> Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners!  Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland.  We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.
>
> Gratefully,
>
> Zenon Kuzik
> Across the Ditch from Sydney
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Basia
> To: mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 12:38 PM
> Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>  
> Dear Zenon
>
> Your ethnicity is that glorious cocktail below!
> And you know, when we look around the world, so many of us are a cocktail, genetically and historically (as lands changed hands and cultures were often imposed)
> The Polish bit is a primal thing (my interpretation – not at all historic I am afraid)
> You are not an orphan, you live in a place of security, freedom, diversity – enjoy!
> And enjoy your wonderful ethnic roots – at every level you can.
>
> I loved Stan from Moscow narrowing it down to human, heartfelt essence yesterday – and he is always so careful to be factual about historical events.
>
> I love Russia therefore I am Russian (not exactly your words Stan but the meaning)
>
> Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
>
> From: Zenon Kuzik Reply-To: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 00:31:13 -0800 (PST)To: "mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com"Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>  
> Dear Basia,
>
> Your well-crafted contribution struck a chord with me.  Although born and bred in New Zealand, and proud to be a Kiwi first and foremost, I start to feel a bit different when people over here say something to me along the lines of, "you have an unusual name" or "what nationality are you?", etc.  I tell such folk that I have Polish ancestry - but that is a simplification.  Both my parents and their families, for generations, were from Ziemia Lwowska, and they/we NEVER regarded that as part of some so-called Kresy.  Our blood line is probably more Ruthenian (an historic term I prefer to the more modern "Ukrainian"), than anything else, and, as far as I can determine, we're a mixture of Ruthenian, Polish, Cossack, Russian, Tartar, German, Irish, Scottish and God knows what else. I "feel" more Polish than Ruthenian/Ukrainian - I was brought up as Polish (speaking Polish before becoming fluent in English), and this upsets relatives who are nationalistic
> Ukrainians!
>
> I have been to modern-day Poland, and felt little affinity with it.  The language there is different from the Polish spoken by my parents, and, more importantly, the country no longer includes the Lwow region.  I have also visited what is now called "Western Ukraine" and that has little in common with the land of my parents in its language, culture and pre-WW2 ethnic make-up.  The Poland of before September 1939 - the Poland of my background - disappeared forever, thanks to Stalin, Hitler and Stalin's willing accomplices, Churchill and Roosevelt.  I almost think of myself as an orphan - because I can't relate to the present, only to the past, as far as my background is concerned. Maybe that's why I'm so happy to be a Kiwi - living in Godzone.  So, what is my ethnicity?
>
> All good wishes,
>
> Zenon Kuzik
> Aotearoa 
>
>
> ________________________________
>


#54536 From: "Lenarda Szymczak" <szymczak01@...>
Date: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:30 pm
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Kazik Juszkiewicz from Wem, Shropshire UK
lenardaszymczak
Send Email Send Email
 

Welcome Kazik to group and with your life experience, you can teach us much as we endeavour to assist you.

Lenarda, Sydney, Australia

 

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Bitner
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January, 2013 4:26 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Kazik Juszkiewicz from Wem, Shropshire UK

 

 

 

Dear group

 

Please welcome Kazik to the group.

Kazik's  father Henryk and his family lived in Królewszczyzna in the province of Wilno in 1939. Henryk  had a modest small holding and was also was employed as a traffic official at PKP (Polish State Railway). He evaded capture for several months outwitting the NKWD but was picked up by Lithuanian border police and handed over to the Soviets. He was interrogated at several jails before being sentenced to hard labour lagier, gulag etc.. 

When the amnesty was announced he managed to get to a 2nd Corps assembly point and enlisted in the army as a member of the engineers’ railway battalion. He followed  the Polish army under General Anders through the Middle East to eventually arrive in the UK where he settled with his wife who he met and married en route.

 

Kazik's mother was Kalina Krystyna nee Kawka who lived in Hajnówka. She, with her mother  and her siblings, was arrested  during the night of 20th June 1941 by the NKWD and together with 1000 or so others was  packed into cattle trucks and transported east to Siberia. Her father was seperated from his family and presumably taken somewhere and murdered. He was never heard of or seen again.

The family was taken as far as Parabiel on a tributary of the river Ob and set to hard labour being effectively left to starve. The NKWD would not allow them to leave as a result of the amnesty. 

Through a miraculous sequence of events and a several thousand kilometre trek, Kalina managed  to get her siblings and her own sick mother out of Siberia and to the safety of the 2nd Corps at the end of 1943.

 

Kazik says that the Juszkiewicz family had resided in the Kresy regions arround Parafianówo, Borisow, Mińsk etc  since the times of Sapieha, late 17th century. Sadly the Soviets confiscated and vandalised the family estates and holdings . it is now his intention to continue with the link to his  family's background and research all things connected to his people in any way that he can. He would patricularly like  to discover the fate of grandfather and too many others like him.

Welcome once again Kazik and I wish you every success in your search.

Kind regards

Helen Bitner

Colchester UK

 

.

 


#54537 From: "ryszardsys" <ryszardsys@...>
Date: Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:58 pm
Subject: Re: Introducing new member Kazik Juszkiewicz from Wem, Shropshire UK
ryszardsys
Send Email Send Email
 
Here are a few Jaszkiewicze:  They are from wojewodstwo Wilenskie:

Juszkiewicz Tadeusz - - 1933 Folw.Wejtkowo,Pliskiej Dzisienkim 3

Juszkiewicz Piotr - - 1939 Szylowicze,kewskiej Oszmianskim 35

Juszkiewicz Michal s Izydora - - 1939 Szylowicze,kewskiej Oszmianskim 36

Juszkiewicz Jan - - 1939 Szylowicze,kewskiej Oszmianskim 37

Juszkiewicz Jozef - - 1939 Szylowicze,kewskiej Oszmianskim 38

Juszkiewicz Spadk.Stefanii - - 1939 Szylowicze,kewskiej Oszmianskim 39

Juszkiewicz Zofia c Konstantego - - 1938 Borsuki,dokszyckiej Dzisnienski 60

Juszkiewicz Kazimierz Wil-Trocki - - 1929 Niemierz,Rudominskiej 46


Rys
UK


--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Helen Bitner  wrote:
>
>
> Dear group
>
> Please welcome Kazik to the group.
> Kazik's  father Henryk and his family lived in Królewszczyzna in the province
of Wilno in 1939. Henryk  had a modest small holding and was also was employed
as a traffic official at PKP (Polish State Railway). He evaded capture for
several months outwitting the NKWD but was picked up by Lithuanian border police
and handed over to the Soviets. He was interrogated at several jails before
being sentenced to hard labour lagier, gulag etc..
> When the amnesty was announced he managed to get to a 2nd Corps assembly point
and enlisted in the army as a member of the engineers’ railway battalion. He
followed  the Polish army under General Anders through the Middle East to
eventually arrive in the UK where he settled with his wife who he met and
married en route.
>
> Kazik's mother was Kalina Krystyna nee Kawka who lived in Hajnówka. She, with
her mother  and her siblings, was arrested  during the night of 20th June 1941
by the NKWD and together with 1000 or so others was  packed into cattle trucks
and transported east to Siberia. Her father was seperated from his family and
presumably taken somewhere and murdered. He was never heard of or seen again.
> The family was taken as far as Parabiel on a tributary of the river Ob and set
to hard labour being effectively left to starve. The NKWD would not allow them
to leave as a result of the amnesty.
> Through a miraculous sequence of events and a several thousand kilometre trek,
Kalina managed  to get her siblings and her own sick mother out of Siberia and
to the safety of the 2nd Corps at the end of 1943.
>
> Kazik says that the Juszkiewicz family had resided in the Kresy regions
arround Parafianówo, Borisow, Mińsk etc  since the times of Sapieha, late 17th
century. Sadly the Soviets confiscated and vandalised the family estates and
holdings . it is now his intention to continue with the link to his  family's
background and research all things connected to his people in any way that he
can. He would patricularly like  to discover the fate of grandfather and too
many others like him.
> Welcome once again Kazik and I wish you every success in your search.
> Kind regards
> Helen Bitner
> Colchester UK
>
> .
>

#54538 From: Basia <basia@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:25 am
Subject: Ethnicity vs. citizenship
basiazielins...
Send Email Send Email
 
Stan and Zenon

My feeling at the time (about 15 years ago) on that day, about the atmosphere of the event, was of a  respectful, cautious sense of reconciliation. 
My husband and I were hiking in the area the day before and came upon a clearing, in what appeared to be a clearing, in a wood,  with a beautiful, very simple, restored church. 
Just walls, roof, door and windows and a very simple altar as well as the most beautiful icon of the Madonna I have ever seen, the only "adornment". 
The atmosphere was palpable. I was shown the cemetery and told of the hundreds of people who had lived there, the clearing, the woods which had reclaimed some of the land.
 I felt really, really sick, it was the closest I had been confronted with, about the atrocities – of let's say war- 
I managed to persuade my atheist husband to indulge me the following day so I could attend the church celebrations which included the beautiful service to reopen, the newly rebuilt church.
There were hundreds of people there, it was an important event, the last couple kilometers had to be walked in.
I know the non Catholic priest, was the head of the Orthodox church in Poland and he was able to do his homily in both his language and Polish.-
My general understanding at the time was that the Lemks were prepared to cautiously reconcile.
Indeed it would be a great experience to visit the place again.
I do know my icon painting improved for a time after the experience.
I used to paint icons because I love them, I am RC. 
Of cours, let me stress, this was just my impression, a total outsider.

Basia Zielinska (Sydney)


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:16:58 -0800 (PST)
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Basia,

Point taken about language being organic, but the man in Wroclaw was quite adamant that Polish as spoken in present-day Poland has been bastardised: his subjective opinion.

I think that if the Lithuanian lady had a painful experience, she probably allowed that to cloud her judgment regarding the past: subjective emotion distorting objective facts/reality.  I am not necessarily condemning her because of this, as we can all be guilty of doing the same - the present writer included!

You mentioned the Bieszczady region and the ethnic cleansing that took place there. This was part of what is known as Akcja Wisla which uprooted Lemkos and other Ruthenians/Ukrainians from their ancestral lands.  Remember, of course, that this took place during the Communist era, at the behest of Moscow.
Interestingly, I knew some Lemko folk who were victims of this tragedy.  Yet they did not become anti-Polish as a result.  They were aware of the circumstances behind their painful experience and were very friendly towards the Poles they came across in their new land of Australia, and were happy to speak in (non-bastardised!) Polish.  I think they could have taught that Lithuanian lady a thing or two!  By the way, as those native to Bieszczady were mostly Greek Catholics, and not Orthodox, it would seem more likely that the service you witnessed was led by GC and RC clergy.

Your contributions are much appreciated.

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand


From: Basia <basia@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 9:10 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Zenon
Language is very "organic" it changes! There are many factors which affect that.
In my humble opinion, it is not that language is/was better, just different, evolved,and many factors affect that.
Just consider the variants in English around the world.
That is a fact, and we tend to cling to what is familiar to us.
That too is understandable.
The difference in language is significantly noticeable when I speak to younger generation Poles (I am mother in law to a gorgeous "real" Pole, 10 years out of Poland).
I speak very reasonable Polish (apparently) and I do hear the "difference" in the younger generation.
As for the lady from Lithuania
Her experience is obviously painful, her memories are based on her personal experiences and stories.
This why I embrace, to the best of my ability (not always successfully) an openness to learn about/from other cultures before forming cautious opinions.
I was in the Bieszczady region of Poland a few years ago, I don't exactly know the facts between the changing borders, but I was, for the first time, seeing evidence of ethnic cleansing, by Poles, which caused me terrible pain.
There was an extraordinary process of reconciliation happening when I was (purely by fluke) there. A marvellous service, in a church rebuilt from rubble, officiated at by Roman Catholic and Orthodox priests (bishops or even higher I think) One of the most moving days in my life.
It filled me with hope for the human race.
 
Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:16:19 -0800 (PST)
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Basia,

What a great reply - thank you!  Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.

Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners!  Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland.  We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.

Gratefully,

Zenon Kuzik
Across the Ditch from Sydney






#54539 From: ADefi <adefi54@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:40 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Anna Defiore (Filipowicz) from the USA
adefi54
Send Email Send Email
 
My thanks for the welcoming and my heartfelt gratitude for any assistance with my research.

In answer to your request, I will try my best since I only have the very basics.  I am a post WWII born and bred in Argentina in search of:

Great grandfather Jozef Morończyk, wife Katarzyna Hasior, I do not know their birth or location.  My mother supposedly was left an inheritance registered at the Krakow Court.  I have send a request to obtain a copy of the document(s), no reply so far.  It was verified for me that the records are at the archives, so we must wait patiently. 
Grandfather Kazimierz Morończyk unknown birth or place, I'm assuming they are from Maloposlkie region.  There was a great aunt Jadwiga Morończyk-Merwart who is buried in Krakow, I was told she was born in Zagorz near Sanok which surprises me because there is where my mother was born.
I have weitten to the church and USC in Zagorz, but no reply as off today....

The Kroczaks: according to my grandmother's (Anna/Anny Kroczak) death certificate she was born in Gręzda, there were 4 villages by this name in Galicia.   My grandfather Priot Kroczak(u: 1894) supposedly is from Lipie, there are 4 villages within Subcarpathian and Malopolskie, but there were about 10 during the Austro-Hungarian Empire in the region.  I found a few USA immigration records mentioning Lipie, but again which one?
What really is annoying to me is having two immediate cousins in Poland unwilling to assist with my research. 

The Filipowicz/Konderowicz immediate family members were born in Lwow. There is one member I have been unable to find any information, is my great uncle Zbignew Konderowicz/Konderewicz.  
I do have information about my gradfather Michal Filipowicz and grandmother Antonina Filipowicz, I have been unable to do any farther research since I have other family matter in need of my time.

During the resettlement period my two grandmother's resettled within Wraclaw(Antonina Filipowicz) and Olesnica (Anna Moronczyk).

There is one family member that I would give the world to know what became of him. Jerzy Demianowicz who as a displaced person resettled in England, in 1953 he was living in Wolverhampton.  He happens to be my father's cousin, I know he was not from Lwow, because I recall my father saying he will go to spend vacation time at his house.... I have tried to obtain information from the Polish Military Archives but because not being next of kin I have no rights to the information.  Jerzy also is/was my brother's godfather.

For the rest of the family members I will wait until I have an idea where start my quest.

Kind regards.

Anna D
USA  


From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 2:20 PM
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Anna Defiore (Filipowicz) from the USA

 

Anna, welcome to group, please give us more information, such as names, dates of birth and villages  of your family and group will be happy to  assist in all that is possible.
Lenarda, Sydney, Australia  
 
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Helen Bitner
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January, 2013 5:08 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Introducing new member Anna Defiore (Filipowicz) from the USA
 
 
 Dear group
Please welcome new member Anna. She is researching Moronczyk, Kroczak, Filipowicz, Konderowicz, Hasior, Czemerys, Demianowicz
 and the places  being researched are  Lwow, Zagorz, Krakow, Nowy Sacz, Wroclaw, Olesnica, Lipie (Galizien), GrzÄ™da (galizien), Katowice, Gliwice,Przecieszyn - Biala.
Kind regards
Helen Bitner
Colchester UK
 



#54540 From: ADefi <adefi54@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:54 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Moronczyk, Kroczak, Filipowicz, Konderowicz, Hasior, Czemerys, Demianowicz family search
adefi54
Send Email Send Email
 
Lenarda,

My father Romuald M Filipowicz, born 23.01.1921 in Lwow, was part of the Polish Second Corp, was as many other Polish Service Man
part of the many battles in Italy.  My parents immigrated to Argentina where he was very much involved with the SPK organization.
If not mistaken from 1982 to 1989 was president, at other times he was also vice president, treasurer etc  I have a copy of his military record where it shows all his services while serving.

Kindest regard,
Anna D
USA


From: Lenarda Szymczak <szymczak01@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 9:28 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Moronczyk, Kroczak, Filipowicz, Konderowicz, Hasior, Czemerys, Demianowicz family search

 
Hello Anna, there is a Stanislaw Kroczak on Kresy-Siberia Wall of Names (Elzunia please note, it says female against a male, typo I am sure, especially with so many names) .
 
Filipowicz – on  KS wall of names –
This is all I could find for now, I am sure when other members come on line they will be able to assist further.
Warmest regards,
Lenarda, Australia



#54541 From: beemail27@...
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:28 am
Subject: Music CD of the Poetry of Polish Poet Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski
barb_soja_re...
Send Email Send Email
 
Barbara Figurniak, is a singer who lives in Krakow, Poland.  With the accompaniment of musician and composer, Mateusz Jarosz, she has recorded a music CD of the poetry of Polish poet, Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski.  Please have a look at their website, where you can read about Barbara and Mateusz and their RAYS project, as well as view pictures of one of their concerts and, most importantly, hear their beautiful music!
 
 
I'm very proud to say that Barbara Figurniak is my first cousin!  I hope you enjoy her captivating singing voice and the awe-inspiring music Mateusz Jarosz has created, and pass their website on to everyone you think would enjoy hearing them perform their songs of the poetry of Krzysztof Kamil Baczynski.
 
Dziekuje bardzo!  Thank you very much!
 
 
Barbara Soja Karmazinas
Connecticut
  

#54542 From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:23 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zenon.kuzik
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Rysiu,

At your behest, I came across the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYdpGkqhUJY .  The tears came streaming down my cheeks; I haven't laughed so much in ages!!  I played this back to my dear Lwowiak father, and he almost wet himself.  Note in the clip on the link provided that Babka is pointing at someone with my name.  Ha, ha.

Re your comment: And herein lies the difference between the "old" Poles who came from Kresy and the "new" Poles who have crossed Europe to work here in the UK. The "new" Poles swear terribly; every second word is "K**wa". They lack the skill to make use of the basic language in the way the "old" Poles do.  So very, very true...

Thank you so much - you certainly made my day, and my father's.

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  

From: ryszardsys <ryszardsys@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
I know I shouldn't but if you google "youtube pieniadze za las", there is an old lady on the telephone giving a fair account of old Polish!!!!!

Not for the faint hearted.

Rys
UK

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Mark wrote:
>
> This occurs in Canada too.
> Polish immigrants dont know and dismiss interest in the past.
> Clearly the brainwashing continued long after the war.
> The ones that were born here have shown curiousity, but their parents prefer to talk about today.
>
> Mark T.
> Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Zenon Kuzik
> To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com"
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:16:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>
>  
>
> Dear Basia,
>
> What a great reply - thank you!  Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.
>
> Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners!  Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland.  We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.
>
> Gratefully,
>
> Zenon Kuzik
> Across the Ditch from Sydney

#54543 From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:57 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zenon.kuzik
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Stas,

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

Best wishes,

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.




#54544 From: "synton2000" <synton@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:32 am
Subject: Torturer of Poles
synton2000
Send Email Send Email
 
Grave of commander PFL nr283  (see FOTO )

Polkovnik BOECHIN , commander of the labor camp № 283 (PFL 283) in Stalinogorsk  where in 1944-1950 have been  over 6,000 imprisoned Poles.
Last years he has lived with honor and respect  in Moscow, dead here and buried on  Vvedenskoe cemetery, square  8.

The text on the gravestone:
BOECHIN Alexei Fyodorovich (1898-1971)
BOECHINA Gavrilovna Seraphim (1910-1992) - (wife?)

See also: Uwiezieni w Stalinogorsku

#54545 From: "ryszardsys" <ryszardsys@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
ryszardsys
Send Email Send Email
 
Zenon,

I remember my dziadek fondly. In the 1960's when I was young, my mum and dad
would work so my dziadek looked after me.  I had my tonsils out in 1966 and had
a long stay at home (because I bled afterwards) so I have dziadek looking after
me for about 8 weeks.  He clearly saw I was bored out of my mind so he set up
large boxes in the garden, propped on one side with a stick, put bread
underneath and ran the string into the house through a window.  We caught
endless birds, and yes it was so wrong, but I remember the tirade he gave my mum
when she told him we're in England now and you can't do this.  The tirade was
comical yet I have no recollection of a single word you could classify as
swearing.  Yes there was "cholera jasna" but that's not swearing and his Russian
accent made it come out as "hoolera".

I was reminded by my dad the other day of another incident.  My dziadek had took
me out in the snow and I wasn't supposed to go out of the house.  My shoes got
wet and he tried to dry them on the stove.  They caught fire and filled the
whole house with a horrible stench.  He quickly ran to the shop and bought what
he thought were an identical pair, came home and proudly scuffed and aged them a
little.  My mum came home to the remnants of the stench and then asked him what
had happened "Nic!"  So she asked if I'd been out "Niet" (as he would say), then
she asked what happened to my shoes because they'd gone from brown to black! 
Well that was it..."Szlak this szlak that, he's a kid he should go out, in
Russia he'd be out...." etc. etc.

Yet, until I went to poland in 1973, I was totally unaware of any Polish swear
words!

Rys
UK

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Zenon Kuzik  wrote:
>
> Dear Rysiu,
>
> At your behest, I came across the
following:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYdpGkqhUJY . The tears came
streaming down my cheeks; I haven't laughed so much in ages!! I played this
back to my dear Lwowiak father, and he almost wet himself. Note in the clip on
the link provided that Babka is pointing at someone with my name. Ha, ha.
>
> Re your comment:And herein lies the difference between the "old" Poles who
came from Kresy and the "new" Poles who have crossed Europe to work here in the
UK. The "new" Poles swear terribly; every second word is "K**wa". They lack the
skill to make use of the basic language in the way the "old" Poles do. So very,
very true...
>
> Thank you so much - you certainly made my day, and my father's.
>
> Zenon Kuzik
> New Zealand 
>
> From: ryszardsys
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 4:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org]  Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>
> 
> I know I shouldn't but if you google "youtube pieniadze za las", there is an
old lady on the telephone giving a fair account of old Polish!!!!!
>
> Not for the faint hearted.
>
> Rys
> UK
>
> --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Mark  wrote:
> >
> > This occurs in Canada too.
> > Polish immigrants dont know and dismiss interest in the past.
> > Clearly the brainwashing continued long after the war.
> > The ones that were born here have shown curiousity, but their parents prefer
to talk about today.
> >
> > Mark T.
> > Canada
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Zenon Kuzik
> > To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com"
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 11:16:19 PM
> > Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org]  Ethnicity vs. citizenship
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> > Dear Basia,
> >
> > What a great reply - thank you!  Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution
certainly gave food for thought as well.
> >
> > Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come
across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in
connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard
them as foreigners!  Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose
family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better
Polish than most people in present-day Poland.  We multi-ethnics from the
former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
 What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent
post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.
> >
> > Gratefully,
> >
> > Zenon Kuzik
> > Across the Ditch from Sydney
>

#54546 From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:00 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zwierzinski1957
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Zenon!

You refer to any documents that you have not read, but only heard about them. They will have been demonstrated. You do not like the Soviets. Next logical chain shorting yourself. That's all.

And I will bear witness to the words of those Ukrainians (I have a friend of this family), who were evicted from their homes and sent to the Soviet Ukraine. They have many more reasons not to like the Soviet power than you. So none of them this power did not blame - and blamed Poland represented Gomulka.

In my opinion, after Stalin's death should not so much to demonize and exaggerate by the Soviet government. And do not believe all that different documents - such as that in Iraq at the time found chemical weapons, or the "fact" that Poland had attacked Germany (reason for the outbreak of war) - there were also so-called documents. Or the "fact" that Germans killed Poles in Katyn - these so-called documents even more than those who claim otherwise.

If you are in the 1955 brick fell on your head, this is also not necessary to accuse the Soviet regime. If it was so strong, we would not be sitting at computer.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Stas,

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

Best wishes,

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.






#54547 From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:26 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zwierzinski1957
Send Email Send Email
 
Basia!
Thank you for your heartfelt words.

At this moment, the Orthodox Church in Poland is not inhibited, but behind the scenes if you are Orthodox, you can not take even average administrative post.

But I think it's for the better. Managers who have recently flooded whole Russia, its undoing. No one wants to job. They all want to share and steer.

For Rusyns - worse - they do not even recognize as nationality in Poland or Ukraine. They fight for their rights - but to no avail.

Russian icons - this is the largest (but mysterious) contribution of Russian nationality to the world civilization. This is my opinion.
In second place is my H-bomb (as know, Americans invented the atomic bomb).
The third is Marxism-Bolshevism-communism.

But if the first example - with a plus sign, the second and the third - with a minus sign.

I'm glad you like the icons. We'll talk about it sometime.

With kindness in my heart, Stanislaw (Wijaczeslaw in Orthodox baptism) from M.


From: Basia <basia@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:25 AM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Stan and Zenon

My feeling at the time (about 15 years ago) on that day, about the atmosphere of the event, was of a  respectful, cautious sense of reconciliation. 
My husband and I were hiking in the area the day before and came upon a clearing, in what appeared to be a clearing, in a wood,  with a beautiful, very simple, restored church. 
Just walls, roof, door and windows and a very simple altar as well as the most beautiful icon of the Madonna I have ever seen, the only "adornment". 
The atmosphere was palpable. I was shown the cemetery and told of the hundreds of people who had lived there, the clearing, the woods which had reclaimed some of the land.
 I felt really, really sick, it was the closest I had been confronted with, about the atrocities – of let's say war- 
I managed to persuade my atheist husband to indulge me the following day so I could attend the church celebrations which included the beautiful service to reopen, the newly rebuilt church.
There were hundreds of people there, it was an important event, the last couple kilometers had to be walked in.
I know the non Catholic priest, was the head of the Orthodox church in Poland and he was able to do his homily in both his language and Polish.-
My general understanding at the time was that the Lemks were prepared to cautiously reconcile.
Indeed it would be a great experience to visit the place again.
I do know my icon painting improved for a time after the experience.
I used to paint icons because I love them, I am RC. 
Of cours, let me stress, this was just my impression, a total outsider.

Basia Zielinska (Sydney)


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 08:16:58 -0800 (PST)
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Basia,

Point taken about language being organic, but the man in Wroclaw was quite adamant that Polish as spoken in present-day Poland has been bastardised: his subjective opinion.

I think that if the Lithuanian lady had a painful experience, she probably allowed that to cloud her judgment regarding the past: subjective emotion distorting objective facts/reality.  I am not necessarily condemning her because of this, as we can all be guilty of doing the same - the present writer included!

You mentioned the Bieszczady region and the ethnic cleansing that took place there. This was part of what is known as Akcja Wisla which uprooted Lemkos and other Ruthenians/Ukrainians from their ancestral lands.  Remember, of course, that this took place during the Communist era, at the behest of Moscow.
Interestingly, I knew some Lemko folk who were victims of this tragedy.  Yet they did not become anti-Polish as a result.  They were aware of the circumstances behind their painful experience and were very friendly towards the Poles they came across in their new land of Australia, and were happy to speak in (non-bastardised!) Polish.  I think they could have taught that Lithuanian lady a thing or two!  By the way, as those native to Bieszczady were mostly Greek Catholics, and not Orthodox, it would seem more likely that the service you witnessed was led by GC and RC clergy.

Your contributions are much appreciated.

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand


From: Basia <basia@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 29 January 2013 9:10 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Zenon
Language is very "organic" it changes! There are many factors which affect that.
In my humble opinion, it is not that language is/was better, just different, evolved,and many factors affect that.
Just consider the variants in English around the world.
That is a fact, and we tend to cling to what is familiar to us.
That too is understandable.
The difference in language is significantly noticeable when I speak to younger generation Poles (I am mother in law to a gorgeous "real" Pole, 10 years out of Poland).
I speak very reasonable Polish (apparently) and I do hear the "difference" in the younger generation.
As for the lady from Lithuania
Her experience is obviously painful, her memories are based on her personal experiences and stories.
This why I embrace, to the best of my ability (not always successfully) an openness to learn about/from other cultures before forming cautious opinions.
I was in the Bieszczady region of Poland a few years ago, I don't exactly know the facts between the changing borders, but I was, for the first time, seeing evidence of ethnic cleansing, by Poles, which caused me terrible pain.
There was an extraordinary process of reconciliation happening when I was (purely by fluke) there. A marvellous service, in a church rebuilt from rubble, officiated at by Roman Catholic and Orthodox priests (bishops or even higher I think) One of the most moving days in my life.
It filled me with hope for the human race.
 
Basia Zielinska (Sydney)
From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2013 20:16:19 -0800 (PST)
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Basia,

What a great reply - thank you!  Stanislaw from Moscow's contribution certainly gave food for thought as well.

Another aspect that "distances" me from modern Poland is that I have come across recent immigrants from that country who are not at all interested in connecting with the older Poles of my parents' generation. They seem to regard them as foreigners!  Anyhow, I was heartened when a man in Wroclaw, whose family was originally from Volhynia, said that my father spoke much better Polish than most people in present-day Poland.  We multi-ethnics from the former Eastern Poland are the true heirs of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.  What a shame that the Lithuanian lady referred to by Dan Ford in his recent post has such a narrow (blinkered?) view of the past.

Gratefully,

Zenon Kuzik
Across the Ditch from Sydney








#54548 From: <stefan.wisniowski@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:17 pm
Subject: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
skwisniowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!


SBS Audio and Language : Polish : Highlight: Foundation-Kresy-Syberia
Source: sbs.com.au
O Fundacji opowiada jej zalożyciel i prezes pan Stefan Wiśniowski.
 

Best regards

Stefan Wisniowski
SYDNEY AUSTRALIA

#54549 From: Krystyna Mew <krystynamew@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
krystynamew
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Stefan

What a fantastic interview.  I wish my Polish was half as good as yours.

Krystyna Mew
France



From: "stefan.wisniowski@..." <stefan.wisniowski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia Group <kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 5:17 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013

 
Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/polish/highlight/page/id/249096/t/Foundation-Kresy-Syberia 

SBS Audio and Language : Polish : Highlight: Foundation-Kresy-Syberia
Source: sbs.com.au
O Fundacji opowiada jej zalożyciel i prezes pan Stefan Wiśniowski.
 

Best regards

Stefan Wisniowski
SYDNEY AUSTRALIA



#54550 From: "Julek" <jayplowy@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:59 pm
Subject: Research Sources
julek2205
Send Email Send Email
 
To All:

I as many of us are always trying to find information on our families. I found
this list of resources used by an individual researching his family and hope
this list will help some of us find the some of the information we are seeking.

Please review the entire list it is quite extensive and covers web links,
articles, archives and books.

Happy detective work!

Julek

The most commonly used source
 Abbreviations
o [AAL] Lublin Archdiocese Archives
o [AD] Diocesan Archives - General stands with the Diocese
o [ADK] Archive OO Polish Province. Dominicans in Cracow
o [AGAD] Central Archives of Historical Records - London
o [AP] State Archives - General shortcut with the name of the branch. Also, some
foreign archives, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Lithuanian
o [AGZ] town and county records
o [AZP] Przemyskie Earth Records
o [BHW] R. Marciniak, Boksa M., Luczak M., Bibliography of the history of
Greater Poland, PTPN Library, Poznan 2005
o [BJ] Jagiellonian Library in Krakow
o [BN] National Library in Warsaw
o [Bon.] Adam Boniecki, Armorial Polish, Warsaw, 1899-1914, printed reprint WAiF
Warsaw 1965, edition of the electronic ed. and ed.Richard Jurzak, Bielsko-Biala
2002; reprint WAiF Warsaw 1985. electronic edition, ed. and index. Marek Jerzy
Minakowski, ed.Electronic Publications Minakowski Dr. Krakow 2002;
o [Bork.] George Sewer Dunin-Borkowski, Yearbook of Polish nobles, Lviv 1881.
o [CDIAL] Central State Historical Archives - Lviv (college berdnardyńskie)
o [CPAH] Central State Historical Archives - Lviv (college berdnardyńskie)
o [CGIA] Central State Historical Archive in St. Petersburg - ob. Russian State
Historical Archives
o [CSUI] work. tank. p.red. Feet K., Corpus studiosorum Universitis
Iagellonicae, Publishing Society "Iagellonica history", Cracow 2008-2012
o [CzOGA] Czitinskij oblastnoj Gosudarstvennye Archives
o [Well.] Peter Gałkowski, Genealogy landowners Dobrzyń nineteenth and
twentieth centuries (until 1939), p. Dobrzyń Museum Rypin 1997
o [Dworzecki ...] Jan Peter Dworzecki-Bohdanowicz, Armorial Lithuanian nobility
- the manuscript - Lietuvos Valstybės Istorijos Archyvas Vilnius f 391,
2789 9.SVT apyraso
o [GL (date)] Lviv newspaper (date of issue, or number)
o [Gaio] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Irkutsk oblast Irkustkoj
o [GAOO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Orenburg oblast Orenburgskoj
o [GAOdO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Odessa oblast Odesskoj
o [Gapo] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Perm oblast Permskoj
o [GARF] Gosudarstvennye Rosijskoj Fiederacji Archives in Moscow
o [GATO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Tomsk oblast Tomskoj
o [Clay] Teki Glinka, National Centre for Research and Documentation of
Monuments in Warsaw
o [Worse.] Work. tank. p.red. Grzyńskiego S., "Regestr Diecezjw" Francis
Czaykowskiego or landowners in the crown of 1783-1784 (footnotes Chłapowski
K. and S. Grzyński), DiG Warsaw 2009
o [Armorial Kurland ...] Lackschewitz Class, Prussia-Niewiadomski Andrew
Lecznewski Thomas Wolf von Buchholtz year., Genealogien
kurlandisch-ritterschaftlicher Geschlechter, Kurlandiche Ritterschaft 2004
o [IHPAN] Institute of History of the Polish Academy of Sciences
o [Index ...] The index of the Repressed, Information Center Polish citizens
repressed in the Soviet Union, Centre for SAFETY
o [JKzM] George Kluza information from Myszkw
o [JPDB] Jan Peter Dworzecki-Bohdanowicz, Armorial Lithuanian nobility - the
manuscript - Lietuvos Valstybės Istorijos Archyvas Vilnius f 391, 2789
9.SVT apyraso
o [CARD] CARD Center - Index repressed, www.karta.org.pl
o [KEK] E. Kozlowski, Files January Uprising, collections of the Institute of
History (base enriched with numerous other collections, as well as extracts from
foreign archives)
o ["CC"] Rafal T Prinke, Andrzej Sikorski "Royal Blood" 1997 Poznan
o [Kos] Adam Amilkar Kosinski - Heraldic Guide, dozens of monographs
znakomitszych families, inventory and senatorial families with honorary titles,
ON. L. Anczyca and Sp., Krakw 1877
o [Koss] Stanislaw Kazimierz Kossakowski - Genealogy Historical Monographs some
Polish families T.1-3
o [Kro.] Casimir Pulaski, Polish noble families Chronicle Podolia, Volhynia and
Ukraine, Bookstore Felix West, Brody 1911
o [Who] Who is Who in Poland, founded by Ralph Hubner, Issue IV 2005, Hubners
Who's Who, Switzerland, or a 'Who's Who in Poland 1985 ", edition beers Warsaw
o [Someone] Do you know who this is?, Under the general editorship of Stanislaw
Loza, published by the Central Military Bookshop, Warsaw 1938
o [List] List Katyn victims and missing prisoners of the camps Kozelsk,
Ostashkov, Starobielsk Ed. Alfa Warsaw 1989
o [Lithium] State Historical Archives in Vilnius
o [Lempa.] George Lempicki - Armorial Mazowiecki, Heroldium, Poznan
o [LET.] Letowski L. - Product bishops, prelates and canons of Krakow, Vol 1-4,
Printing UJ, 1852
o [May] "Greater estates" t.VI - District Kaliski, National Museum of
Agriculture and Agro-Food Industry in Szreniawa r 2000
o [Matt.] Or (Matt) Roman Marcinek, Krzysztof Ślusarek - genealogy
materials Galician nobles' Publishing Society "History Jagiellonica" Krakw 1996
o [Min] Marek Jerzy Minakowski - "These great Poles are our family" Krakw 2007
o [Morm.] Mormon Church's genealogical database
o [MWP] Polish Army Museum in Warsaw
o [Top.] Jan Bigo, latest index of all the towns of the hamlets in Cr. Galicia
UK. Duchy of Lithuania and Fr. bukowieńskim, Zolochiv 1886 (23922 PAN III)
o [Nies.] Kasper Niesiecki, Polish Heraldry, Leipzig 1841, with completion of
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Greater marriages, Coordinator: Lukasz Bielecki
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land area latowickiej
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o www.genealogy.com
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illustration full of coats of arms by Tadeusz Gajl
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o www.marienburg.pl
o www.napoleon.gery.pl
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#54551 From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:37 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
john.halucha
Send Email Send Email
 
The many excellent posts on this topic have persuaded me that one's ethnicity is a matter of personal choice, sort of "ethnicity is where the heart is." Additionally, I am persuaded that the definition of ethnicity is itself largely a matter of personal choice. There are so many ways to approach it that one must be careful to understand what a particular author or poster means with reference to "ethnicity". He may or may not be using it to mean what I understand it to mean.
Anna, you made that point convincingly in your post several days ago when you said, "There are a myriad of theories that you can choose from and the academic arguments continue but I use this definition to start with: ethnicity means the status of belonging to a particular group having a common cultural tradition..."
Thank you also for your recommendation about Snyder's THE RECONSTRUCTION OF NATIONS: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999. It's on my reading list. Snyder was at times confused and inconsistent about the Kresy in Bloodlands, but he went a lot farther than many other historians to set the record straight for mass audiences.
I am also grateful, though still a bit shocked, to see examples posted of people blaming Poland for events during periods of occupation by Germany and the USSR, including during what the West regards as the "post-war" period in Poland after 1945. Seeing Gomulka put forward as a sovereign Polish leader, for example, is almost funny when it is so obvious that he was a marionette whose strings were pulled by Moscow.
Such testimonials are as surprising as those from people who say that Poles were worse than Germans during the occupation although it was Germans who held the guns and conceived, built and maintained the industrial killing machine that murdered 6 million Jews along with millions of Polish Roman Catholics who are now somehow being blamed for the system that killed them, too.
Stan, I especially appreciate your posts on such matters as false documents and propaganda. As you say, the West has plenty of examples. However, it looks to me as though the Soviets are still the masters of this domain with such illustrations as Katyn (for which Germans were long blamed thanks to Soviet propaganda) and ethnic cleansing in the Kresy after 1939 and again after 1945 (for which Poland is still being blamed according to your own account). Not only are common folk deluded, but so are exceptionally well-educated individuals whom one might expect to be more discerning about Soviet distortions since they are so aware of distortions by others. The success of the Soviet efforts is especially evident in how widely the lies persist more than two decades - a whole generation - after the Soviet Union dissolved.
Your posts paint Putin in a new light. I thought that because his Russian government continues to hide Soviet crimes (such as refusing to publicly release all the documents related to the Katyn murders) he was essentially an heir to the Soviet system who is maintaining it under a new name. But now I wonder if he might be trying to set straight the historical record but it is too big a challenge to do overnight, after generations of official propaganda, education and historical revisionism. It is not as easy for him to change course as it was for Stalin, when after years of denouncing the Germans he painted Germany and Hitler in glowing terms in August 1939 just before joining hands to invade and partition Poland. After almost two years of "the Germans are our brothers in eternal friendship", in mid-1941 he reversed that tune 180 degrees in a heartbeat again. Putin does not have the ability to manipulate the Russian people so easily in this day and age when the distortions have been set strongly in the populace for more than half a century.
Because of Putin walking down the Soviet path, it seemed reasonable to continue using "Soviet" and "Russian" interchangeably as Churchill and Roosevelt did in the 1940s. You objected to that and pointed out that the Russian people suffered as much as or more than other people under Soviet tyranny. I believe that, which makes it so much harder to understand how any Russian can defend the Soviet distortions in 2013.
I hope you will continue to post such assertions because they offer us a window into another world where up is down and left is right. I promise that I am not laughing at these bizarre-sounding declarations: they are serious and seriously believed by a lot of people, and it does us no good to pretend that if we brush them off they will go away. Just believing that truth must prevail does not make it so - ask the people who saw their fathers being led away by the NKVD in the 1940s and were told by those fathers not to worry because they were not guilty of anything and would soon be back home. They were never seen again, and neither will the truth be known if we let preposterous misrepresentations stand here unchallenged.
Lest anyone get the mistaken idea that I am somehow putting down the Russian people as being exceptionally gullible, let me say vigorously that I am not. We have recently seen several posts observing that the Poland and the Poles of today are not what their parents and grandparents remember, and that is no doubt largely because of their education system still strongly influenced by the decades of official communist declarations and curriculum. The same kind of confusion pertains in the West, at least in my part of Canada. I went through school and consumed popular media causing me to swallow the Western version of history hook, line and sinker: the war began in 1941 with Russia as an Ally (though it was the Americans and British who beat the Nazis) and Poland was a bunch of fools who sent men on horseback with swords and lances against German armour. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found a different narrative being exposed not just by my parents and their Polish friends, but also the likes of historians such as Norman Davies, Laurence Rees, Niall Ferguson and Timothy Snyder. My education has really just begun, and I will always be grateful to members of this group for their own insights and their recommendations for historical sources.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:00:48 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Zenon!

You refer to any documents that you have not read, but only heard about them. They will have been demonstrated. You do not like the Soviets. Next logical chain shorting yourself. That's all.

And I will bear witness to the words of those Ukrainians (I have a friend of this family), who were evicted from their homes and sent to the Soviet Ukraine. They have many more reasons not to like the Soviet power than you. So none of them this power did not blame - and blamed Poland represented Gomulka.

In my opinion, after Stalin's death should not so much to demonize and exaggerate by the Soviet government. And do not believe all that different documents - such as that in Iraq at the time found chemical weapons, or the "fact" that Poland had attacked Germany (reason for the outbreak of war) - there were also so-called documents. Or the "fact" that Germans killed Poles in Katyn - these so-called documents even more than those who claim otherwise.

If you are in the 1955 brick fell on your head, this is also not necessary to accuse the Soviet regime. If it was so strong, we would not be sitting at computer.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Stas,

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

Best wishes,

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.



#54552 From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:03 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
john.halucha
Send Email Send Email
 
Magnificent, Stefan! Congratulations - I bet "w Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie" is easy for you to say.
One thing that might catch the ear of listeners in Poland was your use of Stryjek. When I visited there a couple of years ago my younger relatives told me that was quaint, and now uncles on both sides of the family are called Wujek. But my last living Stryj will remain Stryj to me.
Your broad vocabulary is impressive. As another member of the diaspora brought up in Canada, I wish I could speak half as well as you do.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: "stefan.wisniowski@..." <stefan.wisniowski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia Group <kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:17:01 AM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013

 
Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!


_

#54553 From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:27 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zwierzinski1957
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear John,

Yes, I almost agree with you!
Just do not now see in Russian enemies of civilization.

Many of the facts revealed in the last time. Sometimes I get scared and wonder how a nation at all in 1939-45 did not tear each other.
What was a terrible war of 1918-20! How many people died for Kresy!
Look at these pictures (women do not advise).

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/zbiwol1961/view/87747/?page=0#preview

I do not understand - all have enough land, even in abundance (in Belarus), why would kill others just because they have a different nationality. Many of the commander of legions were officers and generals of Tsarl army, have served Empire. Its collapsed - and to hell with it! Build your house.
But no - Bolsheviks went to Kresy, where they were not wanted - there was not even little base for communism.

Bolshevism-communism in its nature is incredibly aggressive. It was not close in national framework, it always wanted to "make happy" if not all of humanity, at least the neighbors.

It's like I obsessively pursues any idea to make people happy. I myself be happy", now I want be happy my neighbor. But the neighbor did not want! Nothing, I say, we will force.
We do this to him an offer he can not refuse.

I think origins of deportations and executions of 1939-41 are at that time, 1918-20. In the monstrous hatred, which gave the spill.

And of course, not quite sound policy of the Polish central government in relation to Kresy - as a secondary site. See photos of the early 1930's, small-towns Kresy - very poor, everywhere mud puddles. Such in central Poland was not.
If the power developed Kresy, then there would be a total humiliation came from  Belarusian (less) and Ukrainians (more) to Poles. They were even more depressed.

I believe that Putin is now at the point of bifurcation. Where will the Russian history - no one now can say.

As for the archives, especially Katyn - trust me and my friends -historians - almost nothing left, everything is destroyed bastard Khrushchev in 50's. He was a murderer, certainly not like Stalin, but mass. He was covering his tracks.

Stan.

From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
The many excellent posts on this topic have persuaded me that one's ethnicity is a matter of personal choice, sort of "ethnicity is where the heart is." Additionally, I am persuaded that the definition of ethnicity is itself largely a matter of personal choice. There are so many ways to approach it that one must be careful to understand what a particular author or poster means with reference to "ethnicity". He may or may not be using it to mean what I understand it to mean.
Anna, you made that point convincingly in your post several days ago when you said, "There are a myriad of theories that you can choose from and the academic arguments continue but I use this definition to start with: ethnicity means the status of belonging to a particular group having a common cultural tradition..."
Thank you also for your recommendation about Snyder's THE RECONSTRUCTION OF NATIONS: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999. It's on my reading list. Snyder was at times confused and inconsistent about the Kresy in Bloodlands, but he went a lot farther than many other historians to set the record straight for mass audiences.
I am also grateful, though still a bit shocked, to see examples posted of people blaming Poland for events during periods of occupation by Germany and the USSR, including during what the West regards as the "post-war" period in Poland after 1945. Seeing Gomulka put forward as a sovereign Polish leader, for example, is almost funny when it is so obvious that he was a marionette whose strings were pulled by Moscow.
Such testimonials are as surprising as those from people who say that Poles were worse than Germans during the occupation although it was Germans who held the guns and conceived, built and maintained the industrial killing machine that murdered 6 million Jews along with millions of Polish Roman Catholics who are now somehow being blamed for the system that killed them, too.
Stan, I especially appreciate your posts on such matters as false documents and propaganda. As you say, the West has plenty of examples. However, it looks to me as though the Soviets are still the masters of this domain with such illustrations as Katyn (for which Germans were long blamed thanks to Soviet propaganda) and ethnic cleansing in the Kresy after 1939 and again after 1945 (for which Poland is still being blamed according to your own account). Not only are common folk deluded, but so are exceptionally well-educated individuals whom one might expect to be more discerning about Soviet distortions since they are so aware of distortions by others. The success of the Soviet efforts is especially evident in how widely the lies persist more than two decades - a whole generation - after the Soviet Union dissolved.
Your posts paint Putin in a new light. I thought that because his Russian government continues to hide Soviet crimes (such as refusing to publicly release all the documents related to the Katyn murders) he was essentially an heir to the Soviet system who is maintaining it under a new name. But now I wonder if he might be trying to set straight the historical record but it is too big a challenge to do overnight, after generations of official propaganda, education and historical revisionism. It is not as easy for him to change course as it was for Stalin, when after years of denouncing the Germans he painted Germany and Hitler in glowing terms in August 1939 just before joining hands to invade and partition Poland. After almost two years of "the Germans are our brothers in eternal friendship", in mid-1941 he reversed that tune 180 degrees in a heartbeat again. Putin does not have the ability to manipulate the Russian people so easily in this day and age when the distortions have been set strongly in the populace for more than half a century.
Because of Putin walking down the Soviet path, it seemed reasonable to continue using "Soviet" and "Russian" interchangeably as Churchill and Roosevelt did in the 1940s. You objected to that and pointed out that the Russian people suffered as much as or more than other people under Soviet tyranny. I believe that, which makes it so much harder to understand how any Russian can defend the Soviet distortions in 2013.
I hope you will continue to post such assertions because they offer us a window into another world where up is down and left is right. I promise that I am not laughing at these bizarre-sounding declarations: they are serious and seriously believed by a lot of people, and it does us no good to pretend that if we brush them off they will go away. Just believing that truth must prevail does not make it so - ask the people who saw their fathers being led away by the NKVD in the 1940s and were told by those fathers not to worry because they were not guilty of anything and would soon be back home. They were never seen again, and neither will the truth be known if we let preposterous misrepresentations stand here unchallenged.
Lest anyone get the mistaken idea that I am somehow putting down the Russian people as being exceptionally gullible, let me say vigorously that I am not. We have recently seen several posts observing that the Poland and the Poles of today are not what their parents and grandparents remember, and that is no doubt largely because of their education system still strongly influenced by the decades of official communist declarations and curriculum. The same kind of confusion pertains in the West, at least in my part of Canada. I went through school and consumed popular media causing me to swallow the Western version of history hook, line and sinker: the war began in 1941 with Russia as an Ally (though it was the Americans and British who beat the Nazis) and Poland was a bunch of fools who sent men on horseback with swords and lances against German armour. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found a different narrative being exposed not just by my parents and their Polish friends, but also the likes of historians such as Norman Davies, Laurence Rees, Niall Ferguson and Timothy Snyder. My education has really just begun, and I will always be grateful to members of this group for their own insights and their recommendations for historical sources.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:00:48 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Zenon!

You refer to any documents that you have not read, but only heard about them. They will have been demonstrated. You do not like the Soviets. Next logical chain shorting yourself. That's all.

And I will bear witness to the words of those Ukrainians (I have a friend of this family), who were evicted from their homes and sent to the Soviet Ukraine. They have many more reasons not to like the Soviet power than you. So none of them this power did not blame - and blamed Poland represented Gomulka.

In my opinion, after Stalin's death should not so much to demonize and exaggerate by the Soviet government. And do not believe all that different documents - such as that in Iraq at the time found chemical weapons, or the "fact" that Poland had attacked Germany (reason for the outbreak of war) - there were also so-called documents. Or the "fact" that Germans killed Poles in Katyn - these so-called documents even more than those who claim otherwise.

If you are in the 1955 brick fell on your head, this is also not necessary to accuse the Soviet regime. If it was so strong, we would not be sitting at computer.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Stas,

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

Best wishes,

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.





#54554 From: "Lenarda Szymczak" <szymczak01@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:16 pm
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
lenardaszymczak
Send Email Send Email
 

Stan  and John, this is very sad, because the Polish people that perished, my extended family,  including my grandfather taken by NKVD 1937, who was in Czar Cavalry WWI and settled on Crown Land, with Grandmothers family from Plock and those taken from 1932 – 1939, because they were on Russian Soil, after the Riga Treaty of 1921, nothing or very little is known and no one is looking, but close to 160,000?  If not more were lost, deported, murdered and there are no records, they are the forgotten people, because Khrushchev destroyed all records in 1950 and they were not on Polish soil at the time.

 

A section from Google book (free to read) with some reference to these people

Cross-Cultural Competence

 By Sławomir Magala

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=aBEAnty9ALUC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=polish+deportations+pre+1936&source=bl&ots=UDsgmMYLZT&sig=n3MLhxR_kXHBxNtVnm_GECuSZR0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4XsJUf7bKc7mmAWs2YGADA&ved=0CF8Q6AEwCTgK 

 

Lenarda, Australia

 

 

 

 

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Stanislaw Zwierzynski
Sent: Thursday, 31 January, 2013 5:28 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

Dear John,

Yes, I almost agree with you!
Just do not now see in Russian enemies of civilization.

Many of the facts revealed in the last time. Sometimes I get scared and wonder how a nation at all in 1939-45 did not tear each other.
What was a terrible war of 1918-20! How many people died for Kresy!

Look at these pictures (women do not advise).

 


I do not understand - all have enough land, even in abundance (in Belarus), why would kill others just because they have a different nationality. Many of the commander of legions were officers and generals of Tsarl army, have served Empire. Its collapsed - and to hell with it! Build your house.

But no - Bolsheviks went to Kresy, where they were not wanted - there was not even little base for communism.

 

Bolshevism-communism in its nature is incredibly aggressive. It was not close in national framework, it always wanted to "make happy" if not all of humanity, at least the neighbors.

It's like I obsessively pursues any idea to make people happy. I myself be happy", now I want be happy my neighbor. But the neighbor did not want! Nothing, I say, we will force.

We do this to him an offer he can not refuse.

I think origins of deportations and executions of 1939-41 are at that time, 1918-20. In the monstrous hatred, which gave the spill.

And of course, not quite sound policy of the Polish central government in relation to Kresy - as a secondary site. See photos of the early 1930's, small-towns Kresy - very poor, everywhere mud puddles. Such in central Poland was not.
If the power developed Kresy, then there would be a total humiliation came from  Belarusian (less) and Ukrainians (more) to Poles. They were even more depressed.

I believe that Putin is now at the point of bifurcation. Where will the Russian history - no one now can say.

As for the archives, especially Katyn - trust me and my friends -historians - almost nothing left, everything is destroyed bastard Khrushchev in 50's. He was a murderer, certainly not like Stalin, but mass. He was covering his tracks.

Stan.


From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

The many excellent posts on this topic have persuaded me that one's ethnicity is a matter of personal choice, sort of "ethnicity is where the heart is." Additionally, I am persuaded that the definition of ethnicity is itself largely a matter of personal choice. There are so many ways to approach it that one must be careful to understand what a particular author or poster means with reference to "ethnicity". He may or may not be using it to mean what I understand it to mean.

Anna, you made that point convincingly in your post several days ago when you said, "There are a myriad of theories that you can choose from and the academic arguments continue but I use this definition to start with: ethnicity means the status of belonging to a particular group having a common cultural tradition..."

Thank you also for your recommendation about Snyder's THE RECONSTRUCTION OF NATIONS: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999. It's on my reading list. Snyder was at times confused and inconsistent about the Kresy in Bloodlands, but he went a lot farther than many other historians to set the record straight for mass audiences.

I am also grateful, though still a bit shocked, to see examples posted of people blaming Poland for events during periods of occupation by Germany and the USSR, including during what the West regards as the "post-war" period in Poland after 1945. Seeing Gomulka put forward as a sovereign Polish leader, for example, is almost funny when it is so obvious that he was a marionette whose strings were pulled by Moscow.

Such testimonials are as surprising as those from people who say that Poles were worse than Germans during the occupation although it was Germans who held the guns and conceived, built and maintained the industrial killing machine that murdered 6 million Jews along with millions of Polish Roman Catholics who are now somehow being blamed for the system that killed them, too.

Stan, I especially appreciate your posts on such matters as false documents and propaganda. As you say, the West has plenty of examples. However, it looks to me as though the Soviets are still the masters of this domain with such illustrations as Katyn (for which Germans were long blamed thanks to Soviet propaganda) and ethnic cleansing in the Kresy after 1939 and again after 1945 (for which Poland is still being blamed according to your own account). Not only are common folk deluded, but so are exceptionally well-educated individuals whom one might expect to be more discerning about Soviet distortions since they are so aware of distortions by others. The success of the Soviet efforts is especially evident in how widely the lies persist more than two decades - a whole generation - after the Soviet Union dissolved.

Your posts paint Putin in a new light. I thought that because his Russian government continues to hide Soviet crimes (such as refusing to publicly release all the documents related to the Katyn murders) he was essentially an heir to the Soviet system who is maintaining it under a new name. But now I wonder if he might be trying to set straight the historical record but it is too big a challenge to do overnight, after generations of official propaganda, education and historical revisionism. It is not as easy for him to change course as it was for Stalin, when after years of denouncing the Germans he painted Germany and Hitler in glowing terms in August 1939 just before joining hands to invade and partition Poland. After almost two years of "the Germans are our brothers in eternal friendship", in mid-1941 he reversed that tune 180 degrees in a heartbeat again. Putin does not have the ability to manipulate the Russian people so easily in this day and age when the distortions have been set strongly in the populace for more than half a century.

Because of Putin walking down the Soviet path, it seemed reasonable to continue using "Soviet" and "Russian" interchangeably as Churchill and Roosevelt did in the 1940s. You objected to that and pointed out that the Russian people suffered as much as or more than other people under Soviet tyranny. I believe that, which makes it so much harder to understand how any Russian can defend the Soviet distortions in 2013.

I hope you will continue to post such assertions because they offer us a window into another world where up is down and left is right. I promise that I am not laughing at these bizarre-sounding declarations: they are serious and seriously believed by a lot of people, and it does us no good to pretend that if we brush them off they will go away. Just believing that truth must prevail does not make it so - ask the people who saw their fathers being led away by the NKVD in the 1940s and were told by those fathers not to worry because they were not guilty of anything and would soon be back home. They were never seen again, and neither will the truth be known if we let preposterous misrepresentations stand here unchallenged.

Lest anyone get the mistaken idea that I am somehow putting down the Russian people as being exceptionally gullible, let me say vigorously that I am not. We have recently seen several posts observing that the Poland and the Poles of today are not what their parents and grandparents remember, and that is no doubt largely because of their education system still strongly influenced by the decades of official communist declarations and curriculum. The same kind of confusion pertains in the West, at least in my part of Canada. I went through school and consumed popular media causing me to swallow the Western version of history hook, line and sinker: the war began in 1941 with Russia as an Ally (though it was the Americans and British who beat the Nazis) and Poland was a bunch of fools who sent men on horseback with swords and lances against German armour. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found a different narrative being exposed not just by my parents and their Polish friends, but also the likes of historians such as Norman Davies, Laurence Rees, Niall Ferguson and Timothy Snyder. My education has really just begun, and I will always be grateful to members of this group for their own insights and their recommendations for historical sources.

 

John Halucha

Sault Ste Marie, Canada

 


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:00:48 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

Dear Zenon!

You refer to any documents that you have not read, but only heard about them. They will have been demonstrated. You do not like the Soviets. Next logical chain shorting yourself. That's all.

And I will bear witness to the words of those Ukrainians (I have a friend of this family), who were evicted from their homes and sent to the Soviet Ukraine. They have many more reasons not to like the Soviet power than you. So none of them this power did not blame - and blamed Poland represented Gomulka.

In my opinion, after Stalin's death should not so much to demonize and exaggerate by the Soviet government. And do not believe all that different documents - such as that in Iraq at the time found chemical weapons, or the "fact" that Poland had attacked Germany (reason for the outbreak of war) - there were also so-called documents. Or the "fact" that Germans killed Poles in Katyn - these so-called documents even more than those who claim otherwise.

If you are in the 1955 brick fell on your head, this is also not necessary to accuse the Soviet regime. If it was so strong, we would not be sitting at computer.

Stan from M.

 


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

Dear Stas,

 

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

 

Best wishes,

 

Zenon Kuzik

New Zealand  

 


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 

 

Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.

 

 

 


#54555 From: Carol Dove <stashaok@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:20 pm
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
stashaok
Send Email Send Email
 

Hello Group, 

Wanted to say to John, Well said. 

Carol Dove
Connecticut, USA

From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear John,

Yes, I almost agree with you!
Just do not now see in Russian enemies of civilization.

Many of the facts revealed in the last time. Sometimes I get scared and wonder how a nation at all in 1939-45 did not tear each other.
What was a terrible war of 1918-20! How many people died for Kresy!
Look at these pictures (women do not advise).

http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/zbiwol1961/view/87747/?page=0#preview

I do not understand - all have enough land, even in abundance (in Belarus), why would kill others just because they have a different nationality. Many of the commander of legions were officers and generals of Tsarl army, have served Empire. Its collapsed - and to hell with it! Build your house.
But no - Bolsheviks went to Kresy, where they were not wanted - there was not even little base for communism.

Bolshevism-communism in its nature is incredibly aggressive. It was not close in national framework, it always wanted to "make happy" if not all of humanity, at least the neighbors.

It's like I obsessively pursues any idea to make people happy. I myself be happy", now I want be happy my neighbor. But the neighbor did not want! Nothing, I say, we will force.
We do this to him an offer he can not refuse.

I think origins of deportations and executions of 1939-41 are at that time, 1918-20. In the monstrous hatred, which gave the spill.

And of course, not quite sound policy of the Polish central government in relation to Kresy - as a secondary site. See photos of the early 1930's, small-towns Kresy - very poor, everywhere mud puddles. Such in central Poland was not.
If the power developed Kresy, then there would be a total humiliation came from  Belarusian (less) and Ukrainians (more) to Poles. They were even more depressed.

I believe that Putin is now at the point of bifurcation. Where will the Russian history - no one now can say.

As for the archives, especially Katyn - trust me and my friends -historians - almost nothing left, everything is destroyed bastard Khrushchev in 50's. He was a murderer, certainly not like Stalin, but mass. He was covering his tracks.

Stan.

From: John Halucha <john.halucha@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
The many excellent posts on this topic have persuaded me that one's ethnicity is a matter of personal choice, sort of "ethnicity is where the heart is." Additionally, I am persuaded that the definition of ethnicity is itself largely a matter of personal choice. There are so many ways to approach it that one must be careful to understand what a particular author or poster means with reference to "ethnicity". He may or may not be using it to mean what I understand it to mean.
Anna, you made that point convincingly in your post several days ago when you said, "There are a myriad of theories that you can choose from and the academic arguments continue but I use this definition to start with: ethnicity means the status of belonging to a particular group having a common cultural tradition..."
Thank you also for your recommendation about Snyder's THE RECONSTRUCTION OF NATIONS: Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus 1569-1999. It's on my reading list. Snyder was at times confused and inconsistent about the Kresy in Bloodlands, but he went a lot farther than many other historians to set the record straight for mass audiences.
I am also grateful, though still a bit shocked, to see examples posted of people blaming Poland for events during periods of occupation by Germany and the USSR, including during what the West regards as the "post-war" period in Poland after 1945. Seeing Gomulka put forward as a sovereign Polish leader, for example, is almost funny when it is so obvious that he was a marionette whose strings were pulled by Moscow.
Such testimonials are as surprising as those from people who say that Poles were worse than Germans during the occupation although it was Germans who held the guns and conceived, built and maintained the industrial killing machine that murdered 6 million Jews along with millions of Polish Roman Catholics who are now somehow being blamed for the system that killed them, too.
Stan, I especially appreciate your posts on such matters as false documents and propaganda. As you say, the West has plenty of examples. However, it looks to me as though the Soviets are still the masters of this domain with such illustrations as Katyn (for which Germans were long blamed thanks to Soviet propaganda) and ethnic cleansing in the Kresy after 1939 and again after 1945 (for which Poland is still being blamed according to your own account). Not only are common folk deluded, but so are exceptionally well-educated individuals whom one might expect to be more discerning about Soviet distortions since they are so aware of distortions by others. The success of the Soviet efforts is especially evident in how widely the lies persist more than two decades - a whole generation - after the Soviet Union dissolved.
Your posts paint Putin in a new light. I thought that because his Russian government continues to hide Soviet crimes (such as refusing to publicly release all the documents related to the Katyn murders) he was essentially an heir to the Soviet system who is maintaining it under a new name. But now I wonder if he might be trying to set straight the historical record but it is too big a challenge to do overnight, after generations of official propaganda, education and historical revisionism. It is not as easy for him to change course as it was for Stalin, when after years of denouncing the Germans he painted Germany and Hitler in glowing terms in August 1939 just before joining hands to invade and partition Poland. After almost two years of "the Germans are our brothers in eternal friendship", in mid-1941 he reversed that tune 180 degrees in a heartbeat again. Putin does not have the ability to manipulate the Russian people so easily in this day and age when the distortions have been set strongly in the populace for more than half a century.
Because of Putin walking down the Soviet path, it seemed reasonable to continue using "Soviet" and "Russian" interchangeably as Churchill and Roosevelt did in the 1940s. You objected to that and pointed out that the Russian people suffered as much as or more than other people under Soviet tyranny. I believe that, which makes it so much harder to understand how any Russian can defend the Soviet distortions in 2013.
I hope you will continue to post such assertions because they offer us a window into another world where up is down and left is right. I promise that I am not laughing at these bizarre-sounding declarations: they are serious and seriously believed by a lot of people, and it does us no good to pretend that if we brush them off they will go away. Just believing that truth must prevail does not make it so - ask the people who saw their fathers being led away by the NKVD in the 1940s and were told by those fathers not to worry because they were not guilty of anything and would soon be back home. They were never seen again, and neither will the truth be known if we let preposterous misrepresentations stand here unchallenged.
Lest anyone get the mistaken idea that I am somehow putting down the Russian people as being exceptionally gullible, let me say vigorously that I am not. We have recently seen several posts observing that the Poland and the Poles of today are not what their parents and grandparents remember, and that is no doubt largely because of their education system still strongly influenced by the decades of official communist declarations and curriculum. The same kind of confusion pertains in the West, at least in my part of Canada. I went through school and consumed popular media causing me to swallow the Western version of history hook, line and sinker: the war began in 1941 with Russia as an Ally (though it was the Americans and British who beat the Nazis) and Poland was a bunch of fools who sent men on horseback with swords and lances against German armour. It wasn't until a few years ago that I found a different narrative being exposed not just by my parents and their Polish friends, but also the likes of historians such as Norman Davies, Laurence Rees, Niall Ferguson and Timothy Snyder. My education has really just begun, and I will always be grateful to members of this group for their own insights and their recommendations for historical sources.

John Halucha
Sault Ste Marie, Canada


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:00:48 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Zenon!

You refer to any documents that you have not read, but only heard about them. They will have been demonstrated. You do not like the Soviets. Next logical chain shorting yourself. That's all.

And I will bear witness to the words of those Ukrainians (I have a friend of this family), who were evicted from their homes and sent to the Soviet Ukraine. They have many more reasons not to like the Soviet power than you. So none of them this power did not blame - and blamed Poland represented Gomulka.

In my opinion, after Stalin's death should not so much to demonize and exaggerate by the Soviet government. And do not believe all that different documents - such as that in Iraq at the time found chemical weapons, or the "fact" that Poland had attacked Germany (reason for the outbreak of war) - there were also so-called documents. Or the "fact" that Germans killed Poles in Katyn - these so-called documents even more than those who claim otherwise.

If you are in the 1955 brick fell on your head, this is also not necessary to accuse the Soviet regime. If it was so strong, we would not be sitting at computer.

Stan from M.


From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:57 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Dear Stas,

Although Communist Poles, puppets of Moscow, implemented Akcja Wisla, the proposal to do so came from the Soviet authorities.  This was demonstrated in documents released a few years ago, and my father read about it in a Ukrainian paper, published in Melbourne, Australia.  Incidentally, when the uprooting of the Lemkos and other Rusyns/Ruthenians/Ukrainians began, initially the victims were sent across the border to Soviet Ukraine, to now-empty villages whose former Polish inhabitants had been "repatriated" to the "Recovered Territories".

Best wishes,

Zenon Kuzik
New Zealand  


From: Stanislaw Zwierzynski <zwierzinski1957@...>
To: "Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com" <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 5:16 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon!

I think you are wrong in attributing clean Lemko and Rusyns to the hand of Moscow.
Similarly, the wrong ones that attributing a critical reduction of Polish population around Vilnius to the hand of Moscow.

It was pure
Polish case.
It was a kind of ethnic cleansing, but soft. Its leader was Gomulka, and it is known to many residents of Kresy - especially those who lived near Lvov and Bialystok.
Moscow's position after 1953 and up to 1985 in relation to the different nations and nationalities was, I think, quite appropriate. We (in the Soviet Union) felt no humiliation to nation.

Moreover, if anyone humiliated, it's Russian - but it is not topic of our group.

Stan from M.







#54556 From: "Elzunia/Elizabeth Gradosielska/Maczka" <elzunia@...>
Date: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:46 pm
Subject: Re: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
elzuniao
Send Email Send Email
 
I agree, well-done Stefan! your fluency and accent are impressive and have
improved so much since the earlier interviews. But then we know that you are
such a clever, talented guy! who has made what seemed like an impossible dream
come true - congratulations!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, John Halucha  wrote:
>
> Magnificent, Stefan! Congratulations - I bet "w Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz
brzmi w trzcinie" is easy for you to say.
> One thing that might catch the ear of listeners in Poland was your use of
Stryjek. When I visited there a couple of years ago my younger relatives told me
that was quaint, and now uncles on both sides of the family are called Wujek.
But my last living Stryj will remain Stryj to me.
> Your broad vocabulary is impressive. As another member of the diaspora brought
up in Canada, I wish I could speak half as well as you do.
>
> John Halucha
> Sault Ste Marie, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: "stefan.wisniowski@..."
> To: Kresy-Siberia Group
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:17:01 AM
> Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7
Jan 2013
>
>
>  
> Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio
interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special
Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my
attempt at the language!
> >
> >
>
>http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/polish/highlight/page/id/249096/t/Foundation\
-Kresy-Syberia 
> >
> >
> _
>

#54557 From: Anne Kaczanowski <kazameena@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:33 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
kazameena
Send Email Send Email
 
Wow I must certainly compliment you as well Stefan.....Your Polish is much easier and cleaner  to understand than the interviewer's.  I understand now,  what my Mom said for years about  how much the Polish language changed to the point that it was difficult to understand today's native speakers. It is like a lost art to the old native speakers and perhaps an unknown art to today's people of Poland whose language changed with time. This again was just one more thing that was frozen in time when our parents had to leave Poland,. They taught us their language as it was when they left and so hopefully those that remain fluent can pass on what it used to sound like.  The old Polish had a much nicer ( czysty) sound for sure. Congratulations!!
 
hania

From: Elzunia/Elizabeth Gradosielska/Maczka <elzunia@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 4:46:40 PM
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
 
I agree, well-done Stefan! your fluency and accent are impressive and have improved so much since the earlier interviews. But then we know that you are such a clever, talented guy! who has made what seemed like an impossible dream come true - congratulations!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden

--- In mailto:Kresy-Siberia%40yahoogroups.com, John Halucha wrote:
>
> Magnificent, Stefan! Congratulations - I bet "w Szczebrzeszynie chrzÄ…szcz brzmi w trzcinie" is easy for you to say.
> One thing that might catch the ear of listeners in Poland was your use of Stryjek. When I visited there a couple of years ago my younger relatives told me that was quaint, and now uncles on both sides of the family are called Wujek. But my last living Stryj will remain Stryj to me.
> Your broad vocabulary is impressive. As another member of the diaspora brought up in Canada, I wish I could speak half as well as you do.
>
> John Halucha
> Sault Ste Marie, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "stefan.wisniowski@..."
> To: Kresy-Siberia Group
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:17:01 AM
> Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
>
>
>  
> Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!
> >
> >
> >http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/polish/highlight/page/id/249096/t/Foundation-Kresy-Syberia 
> >
> >
> _
>


#54558 From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucynaartymiuk@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:16 am
Subject: number in the military forces
lucyna_98
Send Email Send Email
 

Does anyone have the numbers in each of the polish armed forces

 

I know airforce was 17500

 

What about navy, 2nd corpus,. Carpathian brigade and parachustists

 

 

Thanks

 

Lucyna


#54559 From: Zenon Kuzik <zenon.kuzik@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:41 am
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
zenon.kuzik
Send Email Send Email
 
Dear Rysiu,

Among the Polish community here in NZ, I remember hearing one of my Ciocias (not my actual aunt, you understand, but a term of endearment for a family friend) constantly saying "Cholera" and pronouncing it as "Hoolera", not to mention the frequent use of "Szlak".  Ah, such fond memories, and the YouTube clip brought them all back...

My father, brother and I have listened to Babka rant and rave several times, and I have forwarded the link to one of the children of the Ciocia referred to above.

Greetings from a sweltering NZ,
Zenon Kuzik 


From: ryszardsys <ryszardsys@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, 31 January 2013 12:28 AM
Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship

 
Zenon,

I remember my dziadek fondly. In the 1960's when I was young, my mum and dad would work so my dziadek looked after me. I had my tonsils out in 1966 and had a long stay at home (because I bled afterwards) so I have dziadek looking after me for about 8 weeks. He clearly saw I was bored out of my mind so he set up large boxes in the garden, propped on one side with a stick, put bread underneath and ran the string into the house through a window. We caught endless birds, and yes it was so wrong, but I remember the tirade he gave my mum when she told him we're in England now and you can't do this. The tirade was comical yet I have no recollection of a single word you could classify as swearing. Yes there was "cholera jasna" but that's not swearing and his Russian accent made it come out as "hoolera".

I was reminded by my dad the other day of another incident. My dziadek had took me out in the snow and I wasn't supposed to go out of the house. My shoes got wet and he tried to dry them on the stove. They caught fire and filled the whole house with a horrible stench. He quickly ran to the shop and bought what he thought were an identical pair, came home and proudly scuffed and aged them a little. My mum came home to the remnants of the stench and then asked him what had happened "Nic!" So she asked if I'd been out "Niet" (as he would say), then she asked what happened to my shoes because they'd gone from brown to black! Well that was it..."Szlak this szlak that, he's a kid he should go out, in Russia he'd be out...." etc. etc.

Yet, until I went to poland in 1973, I was totally unaware of any Polish swear words!

Rys
UK

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Zenon Kuzik wrote:
>
> Dear Rysiu,
>
> At your behest, I came across the following: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYdpGkqhUJY .  The tears came streaming down my cheeks; I haven't laughed so much in ages!!  I played this back to my dear Lwowiak father, and he almost wet himself.  Note in the clip on the link provided that Babka is pointing at someone with my name.  Ha, ha.
>
> Re your comment: And herein lies the difference between the "old" Poles who came from Kresy and the "new" Poles who have crossed Europe to work here in the UK. The "new" Poles swear terribly; every second word is "K**wa". They lack the skill to make use of the basic language in the way the "old" Poles do.  So very, very true...
>
> Thank you so much - you certainly made my day, and my father's.
>
> Zenon Kuzik
> New Zealand  
>
> From: ryszardsys
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 4:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Ethnicity vs. citizenship
>
>
>  
> I know I shouldn't but if you google "youtube pieniadze za las", there is an old lady on the telephone giving a fair account of old Polish!!!!!
>
> Not for the faint hearted.
>
> Rys
> UK

#54560 From: martin stepek <mstepek@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:02 am
Subject: Re: number in the military forces
martinstepek
Send Email Send Email
 
Lucyna
 
The Polish Navy was very small. Only 4,500. I know this because I have about a dozen to twenty photos of my father and naval friends and colleagues, most of whose identities I don’t know. If I get the time I’d like to set up a kind of “Search for wartime Polish sailors photographs” website. This would allow families of WW2 Polish Navy personnel to put up their photos and search others’ to see if they can find previously unknown photos of their relatives. After all if I have photos of Polish sailors in my possession it suggests that others will have photos of my father in their possession. Anyone who could help set this up please get in touch because I have the vision but neither the time nor the expertise to do it properly.
 
I wonder if anyone has any stats on the number of Siberiaks who ended up being transferred to the navy. My Dad joined Anders Army on 10th Feb 1942 at Kermine, contracted typhus so couldn’t leave with the vast majority of the troops, eventually left in August 1942, promptly contracted dysentery twice then malaria so spend from August 42 to January 43 in hospital in Teheran before rejoining Anders in Basra, Iraq. There he promptly fell ill again. At that point a friend told him the Navy were recruiting and Dad thought of it as a way to leave the Middle-East and its tropical diseases. By March he was in Kirkcaldy here in Scotland training before being transferred to Poland Naval HQ near Plymouth. For the next two years he served as radar operator on Polish ships in Sicily, Italy (including pounding around Monte Cassino to distract the enemy from defending it in greater numbers), D-Day in Normandy and finally Germany itself.
 
I think his war was quite rare for a Syberiak and would be interested to learn if there are many - any? - other examples of transferences of survivors of Siberia spending the war in the navy rather than army or civilian life.
 
Martin Stepek
Author, For There is Hope
“tender and impassioned, it should be on every table where Poland is discussed and the brave dead remembered” Neal Ascherson
Available from Amazon, Waterstones or directly from the publishers www.ettadunn.com
 
Sent from Windows Mail
 

#54561 From: "Lenarda Szymczak" <szymczak01@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:27 am
Subject: RE: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
lenardaszymczak
Send Email Send Email
 

Stefan, congratulations, great interview, I agree with what Elzunia has said, you made an impossible dream come true.\

Lenarda, Australia

 

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elzunia/Elizabeth Gradosielska/Maczka
Sent: Thursday, 31 January, 2013 10:47 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Re: SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013

 

 

I agree, well-done Stefan! your fluency and accent are impressive and have improved so much since the earlier interviews. But then we know that you are such a clever, talented guy! who has made what seemed like an impossible dream come true - congratulations!

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
Sweden

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, John Halucha wrote:
>
> Magnificent, Stefan! Congratulations - I bet "w Szczebrzeszynie chrz…szcz brzmi w trzcinie" is easy for you to say.
> One thing that might catch the ear of listeners in Poland was your use of Stryjek. When I visited there a couple of years ago my younger relatives told me that was quaint, and now uncles on both sides of the family are called Wujek. But my last living Stryj will remain Stryj to me.
> Your broad vocabulary is impressive. As another member of the diaspora brought up in Canada, I wish I could speak half as well as you do.
>
> John Halucha
> Sault Ste Marie, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: "stefan.wisniowski@..."
> To: Kresy-Siberia Group
> Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:17:01 AM
> Subject: [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
>
>
>  
> Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!
> >
> >
> >http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/polish/highlight/page/id/249096/t/Foundation-Kresy-Syberia 
> >
> >
> _
>


#54562 From: Basia <basia@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:41 am
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013
basiazielins...
Send Email Send Email
 
Congratulations Stefan.
Very well spoken

Basia 


From: <stefan.wisniowski@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 09:17:01 -0700
To: Kresy-Siberia Group <kresy-siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] SBS Radio interview about Kresy-Siberia - 7 Jan 2013

 

Click on the following link if you would like to hear my recent radio interview about Kresy-Siberia, broadcast in Polish on Australia's SBS Special Broadcasting Service, on 7 January 2013. Please do not be too critical of my attempt at the language!


SBS Audio and Language : Polish : Highlight: Foundation-Kresy-Syberia
Source: sbs.com.au
O Fundacji opowiada jej zalożyciel i prezes pan Stefan Wiśniowski.
 

Best regards

Stefan Wisniowski
SYDNEY AUSTRALIA


#54563 From: Basia <basia@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:45 am
Subject: Research Sources
basiazielins...
Send Email Send Email
 

-What an extraordinary list.
Thank you- 

Basia Zielinska (Sydney)


From: Julek <jayplowy@...>
Reply-To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:59:55 -0000
To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} [www.Kresy-Siberia.org] Research Sources

 


To All:

I as many of us are always trying to find information on our families. I found this list of resources used by an individual researching his family and hope this list will help some of us find the some of the information we are seeking.

Please review the entire list it is quite extensive and covers web links, articles, archives and books.

Happy detective work!

Julek

The most commonly used source
• Abbreviations
o [AAL] Lublin Archdiocese Archives
o [AD] Diocesan Archives - General stands with the Diocese
o [ADK] Archive OO Polish Province. Dominicans in Cracow
o [AGAD] Central Archives of Historical Records - London
o [AP] State Archives - General shortcut with the name of the branch. Also, some foreign archives, Ukrainian, Belarusian, Lithuanian
o [AGZ] town and county records
o [AZP] Przemyskie Earth Records
o [BHW] R. Marciniak, Boksa M., Luczak M., Bibliography of the history of Greater Poland, PTPN Library, Poznan 2005
o [BJ] Jagiellonian Library in Krakow
o [BN] National Library in Warsaw
o [Bon.] Adam Boniecki, Armorial Polish, Warsaw, 1899-1914, printed reprint WAiF Warsaw 1965, edition of the electronic ed. and ed.Richard Jurzak, Bielsko-Biala 2002; reprint WAiF Warsaw 1985. electronic edition, ed. and index. Marek Jerzy Minakowski, ed.Electronic Publications Minakowski Dr. Krakow 2002;
o [Bork.] George Sewer Dunin-Borkowski, Yearbook of Polish nobles, Lviv 1881.
o [CDIAL] Central State Historical Archives - Lviv (college berdnardyńskie)
o [CPAH] Central State Historical Archives - Lviv (college berdnardyńskie)
o [CGIA] Central State Historical Archive in St. Petersburg - ob. Russian State Historical Archives
o [CSUI] work. tank. p.red. Feet K., Corpus studiosorum Universitis Iagellonicae, Publishing Society "Iagellonica history", Cracow 2008-2012
o [CzOGA] Czitinskij oblastnoj Gosudarstvennye Archives
o [Well.] Peter Gałkowski, Genealogy landowners Dobrzyń nineteenth and twentieth centuries (until 1939), p. Dobrzyń Museum Rypin 1997
o [Dworzecki ...] Jan Peter Dworzecki-Bohdanowicz, Armorial Lithuanian nobility - the manuscript - Lietuvos Valstybės Istorijos Archyvas Vilnius f 391, 2789 9.SVT apyraso
o [GL (date)] Lviv newspaper (date of issue, or number)
o [Gaio] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Irkutsk oblast Irkustkoj
o [GAOO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Orenburg oblast Orenburgskoj
o [GAOdO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Odessa oblast Odesskoj
o [Gapo] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Perm oblast Permskoj
o [GARF] Gosudarstvennye Rosijskoj Fiederacji Archives in Moscow
o [GATO] Gosudarstvennye Archives in Tomsk oblast Tomskoj
o [Clay] Teki Glinka, National Centre for Research and Documentation of Monuments in Warsaw
o [Worse.] Work. tank. p.red. Górzyńskiego S., "Regestr Diecezjów" Francis Czaykowskiego or landowners in the crown of 1783-1784 (footnotes Chłapowski K. and S. Górzyński), DiG Warsaw 2009
o [Armorial Kurland ...] Lackschewitz Class, Prussia-Niewiadomski Andrew Lecznewski Thomas Wolf von Buchholtz year., Genealogien kurlandisch-ritterschaftlicher Geschlechter, Kurlandiche Ritterschaft 2004
o [IHPAN] Institute of History of the Polish Academy of Sciences
o [Index ...] The index of the Repressed, Information Center Polish citizens repressed in the Soviet Union, Centre for SAFETY
o [JKzM] George Kluza information from Myszków
o [JPDB] Jan Peter Dworzecki-Bohdanowicz, Armorial Lithuanian nobility - the manuscript - Lietuvos Valstybės Istorijos Archyvas Vilnius f 391, 2789 9.SVT apyraso
o [CARD] CARD Center - Index repressed, www.karta.org.pl
o [KEK] E. Kozlowski, Files January Uprising, collections of the Institute of History (base enriched with numerous other collections, as well as extracts from foreign archives)
o ["CC"] Rafal T Prinke, Andrzej Sikorski "Royal Blood" 1997 Poznan
o [Kos] Adam Amilkar Kosinski - Heraldic Guide, dozens of monographs znakomitszych families, inventory and senatorial families with honorary titles, ON. L. Anczyca and Sp., Kraków 1877
o [Koss] Stanislaw Kazimierz Kossakowski - Genealogy Historical Monographs some Polish families T.1-3
o [Kro.] Casimir Pulaski, Polish noble families Chronicle Podolia, Volhynia and Ukraine, Bookstore Felix West, Brody 1911
o [Who] Who is Who in Poland, founded by Ralph Hubner, Issue IV 2005, Hubners Who's Who, Switzerland, or a 'Who's Who in Poland 1985 ", edition beers Warsaw
o [Someone] Do you know who this is?, Under the general editorship of Stanislaw Loza, published by the Central Military Bookshop, Warsaw 1938
o [List] List Katyn victims and missing prisoners of the camps Kozelsk, Ostashkov, Starobielsk Ed. Alfa Warsaw 1989
o [Lithium] State Historical Archives in Vilnius
o [Lempa.] George Lempicki - Armorial Mazowiecki, Heroldium, Poznan
o [LET.] Letowski L. - Product bishops, prelates and canons of Krakow, Vol 1-4, Printing UJ, 1852
o [May] "Greater estates" t.VI - District Kaliski, National Museum of Agriculture and Agro-Food Industry in Szreniawa r 2000
o [Matt.] Or (Matt) Roman Marcinek, Krzysztof Ślusarek - genealogy materials Galician nobles' Publishing Society "History Jagiellonica" Kraków 1996
o [Min] Marek Jerzy Minakowski - "These great Poles are our family" Kraków 2007
o [Morm.] Mormon Church's genealogical database
o [MWP] Polish Army Museum in Warsaw
o [Top.] Jan Bigo, latest index of all the towns of the hamlets in Cr. Galicia UK. Duchy of Lithuania and Fr. bukowieńskim, Zolochiv 1886 (23922 PAN III)
o [Nies.] Kasper Niesiecki, Polish Heraldry, Leipzig 1841, with completion of Ignacy Milewski Kapitza release Zygmunt Gloger, Kraków 1870.
o [Nom.] Fr. Wojciech Wiiuk Kojałowicz - Armorial nobles known as Grand Duchy of Lithuania nomenclator Krakow 1897
o [OIM] National Marriage Index for 1899, www.przodkowie.com / metrics, Dr. Minakowski Electronic Publications
o [Orgel.] S. Orgelbrada Encyklopedja Universal, Warsaw 1899 (in the collection of the Library of the Technical University of Lodz)
o [ORL.] Dr. M. Orłowicz, Illustrated guide to Galicia, Bukovina, Spisz, Orava and Cieszyn Silesia, Lviv 1919.
o [Par.] Parish books
o [Beg.] Fellowship of the Galician nobility and Bukowińska Lions 1857 [Beg.] - Indygenaty nobility granted in 1872 and later
o [Pot.] Descendants of the Four deputies - Marek Jerzy Minakowski
o [PSB] Polish Biographical Dictionary, PAU, Cracow, 1939 -.
o [PTG] Polish Genealogical Society, lists of baptisms, marriages and deaths from parish records, www.ptg.gda.pl
o [RGIA] Rosyjskij Gosudarstvennye, Historical Archives in St. Petersburg - dawniecj Central State Historical Archives
o [MPC] Knights of Polish Władysław Puharowicz Podkarpacie - Think 1937
o [SGKP] work. tank. p.red., Philip Sulimierskiego, Bronislaw Chlebowski, Wladyslaw Walewski, Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Polish and other Slavic countries, Editors Rover 1890
o [SHGWKrak] - Dictionary Historical and geographical region in the Middle Ages Krakow, Polish Academy of Sciences
o [ITA.] Work. tank. p.red., Philip Sulimierskiego, Bronislaw Chlebowski, Wladyslaw Walewski, Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Polish and other Slavic countries, Editors Rover 1890
o [Słow.Geogr.-Hist.] Work. tank. p.red., Philip Sulimierskiego, Bronislaw Chlebowski, Wladyslaw Walewski, Geographical Dictionary of the Kingdom of Polish and other Slavic countries, Editors Rover 1890
o [ITA. hist-Lon province. crack cocaine.] - Historical and Geographical Dictionary of Krakow region in the Middle Ages, PAN
o [Table of Kiev ...] Spisok dworian kijewskoj province, Kiev, 1906
o [Table podolski ...] Spisok dworian wniesiennych in dworiańsku radosłownuju knigu podolskoj province, Kamieniec 1897, ed. , 1913
o [Table of Volyn ...] Spisok dworian wołyńskoj province, Zhitomir 1905
o [Table] Table of the nobility of the Polish Kingdom with a brief of evidence informacyi nobility, reprint ed. of 1851,
o [SSS] Slavic Antiquities Dictionary, encyclopedic outline Slavic culture from the earliest times, edited by W. Kawalenki, G. Labuda, and T. Lehr-Splawinski, the National Department. Ossolińskich Academy of Sciences, 1961 -
o [Stankiewicz] - Stankiewicz JS, Genealogy, Stankiewicz with friends, family party - www.stankieiwcz.e.pl
o [Loss ...] personal losses and victims of repression under the German occupation, www.straty.pl
o [Stup.] Stupnicki H., List of killed and died 1863-4, Lviv 1865
o [Szematyzm ...] Szematyzmy Tax Administration of the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeryi of the Grand Duchy of Krakow, the years 1850, 1869, 1870, 1881, 1882, 1897, 1898, 1911, 1912, 1913
o [Vulva-crack] S. Kolodziejski, medieval lords Defense Residences in the province of Cracow, the Regional Center for the Study and Protection of the Cultural Environment in Krakow, Kraków 1994
o [Tab] Pilat, T., Index tabularnych goods in Galicia with the Great Father. Krakowskie,'s outlay, Lviv 1890
o [Portfolio] Teki Dworzaczka - Collections Library in Kornik
o [TK] Tabula National - numbered according to the original pattern, CDIAL
o [Urus] Seweryn Uruski, family, Heraldry of the Polish nobility, Warsaw, 1904-1931
o [UWKL] work. tank. p.red. Count A., officials of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, Publisher DiG, Warsaw 2004
o [VL] Volumina Legum, rights, privileges konstytucye s Polish Kingdom, Great Xięstwa Lithuanian prowincyi were all owned by the Crown from the general seymiech seymu wiślickiego year of our Lord 1347 until the last seymu, ed. 1732-1952
o [WEP] Great Universal Encyclopedia, Warsaw 1968
o [Edit] Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia, www.wikipedia.org - articles in books
o [Witeb.] Vitebsk prwincyi Armorial nobility, edited by Francis Piekosiński, "Herold Polish", the printing time, Kraków 1899, also reprinted Poznan 1998, Publisher "Heroldium"
o [WJK] Mariusz Mochyna, Czeslaw Strzednicki Crown Army, Infantry
o [Earthlings ...] Leśkiewicz J. (et al.) Earthlings Polish twentieth century, Biographical Dictionary, DiG, Warsaw since 1995
o [R.] Theodore Zychlinski, The Golden Book of the Polish nobility, Poznan, 1879-1908
o [Rec.] Theodore Zychlinski, Wielkopolska Chronicle mourning families ..., Poznan 1877
o [ZN] Gypsy WK, soldiers Biographical Dictionary of Independence 1863-1938, Publishing House "Armor", the People's Movement History Museum, the Museum of Minsk, Social School No. 1 in Krakow, Minsk Mazowiecki - Warszawa - Kraków 2011
• Archives, the original source
o In most of these materials are clearly described in the site of the information
o Family documents, certificates, acts of baptism, marriage, death, property, family studies, family trees, etc.
o Dworzaczek W. - Teki - Collections Library in Kornik
o Dworzecki-Bohdanowicz, JP Armorial Lithuanian nobility - the manuscript - Lietuvos Valstybės Istorijos Archyvas Vilnius f 391, 2789 9.SVT apyraso
o Glinka - Teki, National Centre for Research and Documentation of Monuments in Warsaw
o Inventory Metrics Crown Book entries and decrees Polish Royal Chancery of the year 1447? 1795, ed. Sułkowska-Kurasiowa Irene and Mary Woźniakowa 1973 Main Directorate of State Archives Central Archives of Historical Records in Warsaw., Too: agad.archiwa.gov.pl
o Diplomatic Code of Malopolska, ed. F. Piekosiński, Kraków 1886
o Kopidariusz privileges of Krakow (manuscripts)
o E. Kozlowski, Files January Uprising, collections of the Institute of History (base enriched with numerous other collections, as well as extracts from foreign archives)
o Parish records, metrical
o Liber revisionum triennalium domorum seu lapidearum cannonicalium, Chapter Metropolitan Archives in Krakow
o Łuszczyński BH, Silva Heraldic, pedigrees and other material for rodopistwa the municipal act and landed former province of Cracow and other archives of the former act of the Polish National Library, Ms.. IV 6583, the development of electronically: Goettingen State and University Library
o Regni Matricularium Poloniae Summaria, ed. T. Wierzbowski Volume IV, London 1905-1917
o Lithuanian metric records hearth Grand Duchy of Lithuania.
o Prochaska, A. (ed) Town and land of archive t Bernardine in Lviv Scientific Society, Lviv 1928
o Regestr capitular houses and villages prestivszonialnych 1558-1614, Archives of the Metropolitan Chapter of Krakow
o Regestrum Domorum Venerabilis Capituli Cracoviensis (seventeenth century)
o Rep. Affairs of the city of Krakow ... written by John Zygmunt Zaleski in 1694r. (Manuscripts)
o K. Richter, Kadaster city of Krakow in the seventeenth century, the eighteenth, nineteenth, 1862.
o Teki Żegoty-Paulego, National Archives at Wawel, Cracow
o State archives, church, parish, municipal
• Armorials
o Bobrowicz J. Kasper Niesiecki Polish Heraldry. Oversized accessories with poniejszych rękopismów authors, evidence, official and released by John Nep. Bobrowicz., Leipzig 1841
o Boniecki A., Armorial Polish, Warsaw, 1899-1914, printed reprint WAiF Warsaw 1965, edition of the electronic ed. and ed. Richard Jurzak, Bielsko-Biala 2002; reprint WAiF Warsaw 1985. electronic edition, ed. and index. Marek Jerzy Minakowski, ed. Electronic Publications Minakowski Dr. Krakow 2002;
o Boniecki A., Fellowship of families in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania in the XV and XVI century., Warsaw 1883
o JS Dunin Borkowski, Yearbook of Polish nobles, Lviv 1881.
o Winiarski A. Birch, coats of arms of the Republic of Nobility. Publisher De Facto, Warsaw 2006
o Dachnowski JK, Heraldry of the Royal Prussian nobility of the seventeenth century, Kórnik 1995.
o Dunin-Borkowski JS Almanac blue. Polish families living genealogies, Lviv 1908.
o Dworzaczek W., Genealogy, History Institute of the Polish Academy of Sciences, Warsaw 1959
o Dziadulewicz S. Armorial Tatar families in Poland, Vilnius 1929
o Gajl T., Polish Heraldry, from the Middle Ages to the twentieth century, published by L & L, 2007
o Gałkowski P., Genealogy landowners Dobrzyń nineteenth and twentieth centuries (until 1939), Rypin 1997.
o Kojałowicz Fr. W. Wijuk, nobility Armorial Grand Duchy of Lithuania called nomenclator Krakow 1897
o Korwin L., Armenian noble families, Kraków 1934
o Amilkar A. Kosinski - Heraldic Guide, dozens of monographs znakomitszych families, inventory and senatorial families with honorary titles, ON. L. Anczyca and Sp., Kraków 1877
o Kossakowski SK - Genealogy Historical Monographs some Polish families T.1-3
o Kruczkowski "Korwin" S., "Forum Nobilium ...", Lviv 1935
o A. Kulikowski, Grand Armorial Polish Houses, World Book, Warsaw, 2005
o Kuropatnicki EA, News of nobility and coats jewel ..., Michael Groll, Warsaw 1789
o Lackschewitz K., Prus-Niewiadomski A., Lecznewski T., W. von Buchholtz year., Genealogien kurlandisch-ritterschaftlicher Geschlechter, Kurlandiche Ritterschaft 2004
o Lenczewski T., Genealogy titled families
o Lempicki J. - Armorial Mazowiecki, Heroldium, Poznan
o Letowski L. - Product bishops, prelates and canons of Krakow, Vol 1-4, Printing UJ, 1852
o Minakowski MJ - These great Poles are our family, Kraków 2007
o Minakowski MJ, descendants of members of the Four
o Murinius M., Prussian masters Chronicle, printed Malcher Neringk, Torun 1582 (for: www.chomikuj.pl)
o Niesiecki K., Polish Heraldry, Leipzig 1841, with completion of Ignacy Milewski Kapitza release Zygmunt Gloger, Kraków 1870.
o J. Ostrowski, The Book of arms Polish families, Warsaw 1897.
o Pavlishchev M., Heraldry of the noble families of the Polish Kingdom at most approved Vol I-II, London 1853
o Piekosiński F., eds Armorial nobility prwincyi Vitebsk, "Herold Polish", the printing time, Kraków 1899, also reprinted Poznan 1998, Publisher "Heroldium"
o Pragert P., Kashubian nobility Armorial, BIT-ART., Gdańsk 2005
o Pszczółkowski AA Coaches nobility, (akson.sgh.waw.pl / ~ apszczol)
o K. Pulaski, Polish noble families Chronicle Podolia, Volhynia and Ukraine, Bookstore Felix West, Brody 1911
o J. Szymanski, Heraldry Medieval Polish Knighthood, PWN, Warsaw 1993
o Uruski S., Family, Heraldry of the Polish nobility, Warsaw, 1904-1931
o Wilczynski JK, Armorial ancient Polish nobility podług heralds the complement to the present day, Paris, circa 1860
o Wittyg A., Dziadulewicz S., Unknown Polish nobility coats of arms and its "1908
o L. Zalewski, land Livonian nobility, Warsaw 2005
o Znamierowski Alfred, Heraldry Pedigree, World Books, London, 2004.
o Zychlinski T., The Chronicle of Greater Poland mourning families ..., Poznan 1877
o Zychlinski T., Golden Book of Polish nobility, Poznan, 1879-1908
• Encyclopedias, dictionaries, lists
o Almanac Poland escort, Publishing Society "Woreyd" 1928.
o Askenazy Sz., Stanislaw Krzeminski, Album biographical distinguished Polish men and women of the nineteenth century, published.Mary Chelmonski, Warsaw 1903, in the collection of Kujawsko-Pomeranian Digital Library
o Banaszek K., Roman Wanda Christine, Zdzisław Sawicki, Knights of the Order of Military Virtue in magiłach Katyn, the Chapter of the Order of Military Virtue war, Warsaw 2000
o Bartoszewicz J., Archbishop of Gniezno, Primates of the Republic and Warsaw and the Polish Kingdom primates., J. Ungra Printing, Warsaw, 1858-1865 (courtesy of: Silesian Digital Library)
o Bigo J., latest index of all the towns of the hamlets in Cr. Galicia UK. Duchy of Lithuania and Fr. bukowieńskim, Zolochiv 1886 (23922 PAN III)
o J. Dunin Borkowski, M Dunin Wasowicz, Elector of kings Władysław IV., Michael Korybut, Stanislaw Leszczynski and inventory supporters of Augustus III, in: Yearbook of Heraldic Society in Lviv Vol I, BCUniw. Warsaw
o Birch Thu., Stepan K., Polish MEPs in Parliament 1906-1917 Russian Biographical Dictionary, published by the Diet, Warsaw 2001
o Chłapowski K., A. Gasiorowski, central officials and nadworni Polish XIV-XVIII century censuses, Institute of History of Sciences, Goettingen State and University Library - 1992
o Gypsy WK, soldiers Biographical Dictionary of Independence 1863-1938, Publishing House "Armor", the Museum of the History of the People's Movement, the Museum of the Minsk School of Social No. 1 in Krakow, Minsk Mazowiecki - Warszawa - Kraków 2011
o Czartoryski J., Descendants of Prince Adam Kazimierz Czartoryski - General Podolian Lands (1734-1823) with spouses and Their descendants, too: pages.infinit.net / chimtic / jerzy
o Czwojdrak B., Jastrzebiec in the Cracow and Sandomierz to the middle of the fifteenth century, the Societas Vistulana, Kraków 2007
o Is AS, Gutowski, B., Janowczyk P., Cemntarze former county borszczowskiego, the Association "Polish Community", RIA. Polish Committee for Cultural Heritage Abroad in Warsaw, Warzsawa 2004
o Is AS, Gutowski, B., Skrodzka A., Yasata K, Zdzieborska A., Cemntarze former county czortkowskiego, the Association "Polish Community", RIA. Polish Committee for Cultural Heritage Abroad in Warsaw, Warzsawa 2004
o Dumin S., Górzyński S., List of nobility in the provinces wylegitymowanej, Grodno, Minsk, Mogilev, Smolensk, Vitebsk and in the mid XIX century, Polish Heraldry Society, the Society Heraldyczno-family in Moscow Foundation. Ciechanowskich, DiG Arbor, Warsaw 1992
o Dunin-Borkowski JS hr., List the names of the Polish nobility, Lviv 1887
o Epsztein T., Górzyński S., List of the Polish gentry in 1930. Polesie region. Volhynia province. Publisher DiG, Warsaw 1996
o Epsztein T., Poland landed property in Ukraine in 1890, IH PAN, Publisher Neriton, Warsaw 2008
o Fastnach A. Historical and Geographical Dictionary Sanok in the Middle Ages, Societas Vistulana
o Follprecht K., property owners in Krakow in 1655, Library Krakowsak No. 142, Society of Friends of Cracow Heritage, ed. and printing., "Secession", Kraków 2001
o A. Gasiorowski, historical and geographical dictionary of Polish territories in the Middle Ages, PTPN
o Gembarzewski B., the Polish Army, the Duchy of Warsaw 1807-1814, Geberthner and Wolff, Warsaw 1905
o Gembarzewski B., the Polish Army, the Duchy of Warsaw 1815-1830, Geberthner and Wolff, Warsaw 1905
o Genealogical Book province Podolska
o Armorial General of the families of the Russian Empire court
o K. settlement, Polish graves in the cemeteries of London, Vol 1-2, Polish Academy of Sciences, Cracow 1995-2001
o Horoszkiewicz R., List of provincial land gentry families of Pinsk, Warsaw 1997.
o Hubner, R., Who is Who in Poland, founded by Ralph Hubner, Issue IV 2005, Hubners Who's Who, Switzerland, or "Who is Who in Poland 1985", edition beers Warsaw
o M. Jackiewicz, Poles in Lithuania, 1918-2000 Biographical Dictionary, published by Andrew Frukacz Exlibris Polish Gallery Books, 2nd edition, revised and enlarged, Warsaw 2003
o Jedynak Z., Z. Kieres, big families big property, State Archives in Katowice, Silesian Museum in Katowice, Katowice 2006
o Card Index of the Repressed, Information Center Polish citizens repressed in the Soviet Union, Centre for SAFETY
o Kirkor S. Dictionary Vistula Legion officers and regiments of Vistula Lancers
o Kirkor S. Under the banners of Napoleon's Dictionary officers of regiments 4th, 7th and 9 Duchy of Warsaw, which Polish Division in Spain.
o Klijanienko-Pienkowski George, Mr. Pienkowski? Da, they Zili ZDIES ... Publisher RELAY, Steel Will 2012
o Konasrski Sz., Armorial de la noblesse Titree polonaise, Paris 1958
o Konasrski Sz., About heraldry and "heraldic" snobiźmie, Publishing Publishing Adiutor, Warsaw 1992
o Table A. Kozlowski nobility Gubernji wylegitymowanej in Vilnius
o Kruczkowski L., against the Poles elevated to the rank of nobility by monarchs austryjackich time from 1773 to 1918, Lviv 1935
o Krzepela J. Rody Prussian Lands, Geberthner and Wolf, Kraków 1927
o Krzepela J. Rody Prussia Part 2: Rody other Prussian lands, the names niegniazdowych Houses, Houses of the cities of Torun and Gdansk came out, Rody alluvial from the Polish lands, especially with Dobrzyn, Plock and Ciechanow,
o Leśkiewicz J. (et al.) Earthlings Polish twentieth century, Biographical Dictionary, DiG, Warsaw since 1995
o List of former county przasnyskiego nobility in pre-1798 borders
o Orgelbrad S., Encyklopedja Universal, Warsaw 1899 (in the collection of the Library of the Technical University of Lodz)
o Malewski Thu., Description of the nobility lidzkiej of 1765, [in] Yearbook of the Association of Polish Scientists of Lithuania, pp. 168 - 183, volume 4, 2005. by: documents in the National Historical Archive in Vilnius, Lithuania
o Malewski Thu., Rody nobility in Lithuania in the nineteenth century, district lidzki, Publisher TIME, Vilnius 2001
o A. Massalski, government school teachers of men in the Polish Kingdom 1833-1862 - Biographical Dictionary, University of Humanities and Sciences Academy in Kielce, RHYTHM Publishing House, Warsaw 2008
o R. Marciniak, Boksa M., Luczak M., Bibliography history of Wielkopolska, PTPN Library, Poznan 2005
o Minakowski MJ, National Marriage Index for 1899, www.przodkowie.com / metrics, Dr. Minakowski Electronic Publications
o Ministry of Military Affairs, Yearbook reserve officer, Warsaw 1934
o Piekosiński F. Copies of the books conscripts heraldic images. Podlaskie 1581, Lviv 1911
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o Skrijka P., Dublańska Akademmia, Polish loaf of bread on the Ukrainian embroidered tablecloth, PLATAN 2002; (pronacjonalistycznie biased book written Ukrainian, questionable scientific value)
o Scientific research station in Mława them. Prof. S. Herbst, State Archives of the Capital City. Warsaw - a branch in Mława; historical sources for the history of the Earth Mława 1065-1956, collected and prepared A. Grochowski and R. Juszkiewicz
o Ancient Monuments of Polish Law, tI-V (ed. A. Helcel), Krakow 1856-1876, Vol VI (ed. M. Bobrzyński), Kraków 1881, Vol VIII (ed. B. Ulanowski), Kraków 1884
o Studnicki W., Year 1863. Death sentences, Vilnius 1923, for the WBC
o Total T., Biographical Dictionary of postal officials in the Polish Kingdom 1815-1871, DiG, Warsaw 2006
o A. Sypek, old cemetery in Tarnow, Vol I-II, Tarnów 1994
o Szenic St., Powazki Cemetery 1851-1890, ed. CIP
o J. Szymanski, and kanonikat Lesser nobility lay in H1 XIIw. Historical Studies, tX, 1967, No. 1, p.31-53
o J. Szymanski, auxiliary historical sciences, ed, VI, PWN, Warsaw 2008
o Swede W., Масонскія ложы на землях Беларусі (Masonic lodges in the lands of Belarus) (source: kamunikat.net.iig.pl)
o Ślusarek K., petty nobles in Galicia, 1772-1848, Publisher "Academic Bookstore", Kraków 1994
o Tarszeński Dydak OFMso, Jonah living in mortal zatonieniu ..., Lviv 1758 (the WBC)
o Tomkowicz S., Tyniec, Tow outlay. Historya lovers and Monuments Krakow, 1901
o Trzecieski J., souvenirs and memories of the land Sanok, Krosno 1907
o A. Urbanski, knell on the ruins of Lithuania and Russia, edition by the author, Warsaw, 1928 (in: WBC)
o Wachholz L., Białoń J. Grochowski, J., Composition of the Faculty of Medicine and Pharmacy of the Jagiellonian University in the years 1364-1949 Medical Academy in Cracow in the years 1950-1963 in the six hundredth of the Jagiellonian University in Krakow and AM, OWN, Kraków 1963
o ZK Walewski, Memorial for Polish Families Brief news lost on scaffolding, shot, killed and died in exile, Siberia and the victims of the 1861-1866 tułactwie year, official sources, newspapers, and oral applications but with credible people and comrades in arms, Editors Kalina , 1867 [a. www.wbc.poznan.pl]
o Z. Wasilewski, Footsteps Mickiewicz, essays and contributions to the history of Romanticism, Publishing Society, Lviv 1905
o Warzkowicz E., J. Klink, Defense Lviv (ed), Society for the History of Defence Lviv and South-Eastern Provinces, Warsaw 1994
o Weyssenhoff J., Chronicle Weyssów-Weyssenhoffów family, Vilnius 1935 (in: WBC)
o S. Zaleski, Fr., Jesuits in Poland, Krakow 1908
o Zboiński AB Ogończyków Zboińskich Pedigree Belgian lines, Kikolskiej, Kozlowska and Osińska by George Ignatius of Osin Zboiński between 1972-1977 and designed by his brother Anton Bogdan ready to print, Warsaw, 1977 (typescript)
o George betrayal., United emigration after the November Uprising, a series of Acts of the Nation and of the Polish State
o T. Zielinska, Radziwills coat Trumpets - family history, in a collective work, the Head Office of State Archives AGAD, Publisher DiG, Warsaw 1996
o Złotorzycka M., O women soldiers in the January Uprising, PZWS, Warsaw 1972
o Zubek J. Fr., Martyrdom Podlaskie clergy during the Nazi occupation 1939-1945, Siedlce 1968, the work is based on data from the act of the Diocese of Siedlce, ADSB 1944 [manuscript for: Alexandrovich P. Fr., Diocese of Siedlce ...]
o Żenkiewicz J., Polish landowners in the Republic of Lithuania in the interwar period, Torun 2001
o Żenkiewicz J., Lithuania over the centuries and its relationship with the Polish, Torun 2001
• The most common Magazines
o 1818-1939 Lviv newspaper - in Jagiellonian Digital Library
o Weekly Illustrowany
• The most common source of Internet
o [Greater vows] bindweed.man.poznan.pl / posen / data / database dolacz.php Greater marriages, Coordinator: Lukasz Bielecki
o [Edit] Wikipedia - The Free Encyclopedia, www.wikipedia.org - articles in books
o archives.nd.edu / latgramm.htm
o archiwum2000.tripod.com
o baza.archiwa.gov.pl / sesame / pradziad.php
o bindweed.man.poznan.pl
o edukacjaregionalna.republika.pl/k35.htm - A list of the January Uprising of land area latowickiej
o genealog.home.pl
o genealogy.drefs.net
o geneweb.inria.fr / Roglo? lang = en
o home.concepts.nl - Polish War Graves
o i.sadurski.w.interia.pl
o kdkv.narod.ru/1864
o monstera.man.poznan.pl / ~ bielecki
o ruski.idysk.com
o teki.bkpan.poznan.pl
o worsten.org/galicio/lwow/familioj_1902/fam_1902_pl.htm
o www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl / presentations / metryka_litewska.html
o www.akromer.republika.pl / Distributors.html
o www.ancestorhunt.com
o www.ancestry.com
o www.auschwitz.org.pl
o www.beskid.com.pl / genealogy
o www.bialorus.pl
o www.bindweed.man.poznan.pl/ ~ bielecki / search.php
o www.biol.uni.torun.pl/ ~ Kozlov / gene
o www.czartoryski.prv.pl
o www.dabrowski.esimple.pl
o www.encyklopedia.interia.pl
o www.encyklopedia.pwn.pl
o www.feefhs.org
o www.genealog.home.pl
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o www.genealogy.com
o www.genealodzy.pl
o www.genotype.pl
o www.forumnobilium.net
o www.herby.com.pl
o www.herby.umk.pl - site of the University of Santa Koprenika - source illustration full of coats of arms by Tadeusz Gajl
o www.gajl.wielcy.pl - Tadeusz Gajl, Lech Milewski - Polish Heraldry - search
o www.indeks.karta.org.pl
o www.jewishgen.org
o www.jurek.com.pl / against
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o www.katedrapolowa.pl / ofiary.php
o www.kindredkonnections.com
o www.ltg.pl
o www.marienburg.pl
o www.napoleon.gery.pl
o www.notrefamille.com
o www.ogrodywspomnien.pl - Service Gardens Memories notes, information, photos, genealogy
o www.ornatowski.com
o www.pacakm.webpark.pl
o www.pbi.edu.pl
o www.pgsa.org
o www.podkamien.yoyo.pl
o www.podstolski.com
o www.poishi.com
o www.polishwargraves.nl
o www.polskiedzieje.pl / drzewa.php
o www.przodkowie.com
o www.pu.kielce.pl / pages / Grzegorz.Krukowski
o www.rodzima.org
o www.rodtarnowski.net
o www.rootsweb.com
o www.stankiewicz.e.pl
o www.stirnet.com/HTML/genie/british/ff/fitzalan1.htm # link1
o www.trees.pl
o www.trokiele.republika.pl
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#54564 From: "annapacewicz" <annapacewicz@...>
Date: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:39 am
Subject: Re: number in the military forces
annapacewicz
Send Email Send Email
 
Martin, that is a superb idea. My Dad was also in the Navy (I'm sure we have
corresponded on this previously). He enlisted in Tockoje and by August 1942 was
in UK. He was on Garland also pounding Italy in 1944.

There is some great info on the National Archives under the archives for
Churchill's War Cabinet. It makes reference to 800 men coming from "Russia" (I
can send you this?).

I have been in touch with a Polish Navy historian in the UK who has been
enormously helpful - Wanda Troman - and there is also Martin Hazell from
Plymouth who has just recently organised an exhibition/testimonial history at
the naval museum in Gdansk.

I do have a list of all the names of sailors from the Polish Navy in WW2. They
are listed in the book "Polska Marynarka Wojenna" published in 1947. It is on my
To Do list to scan this book for KSVM.

Anyway I'm sure it is possible to set something up as you propose.
For example we could start a collection on the KSVM Hall of Memories. There is a
lady in Wollongong NSW I have been meaning to visit all year..: her father also
served on Garland and she has dozens of photos which she will let me scan. I'm
sure I connected with her via Martin Hazell / the Plymouth maritime museum. I
have also found lots of photographs from PISM although apart from very senior
officers there are no names attributed.

What do you think?

We would also like to do a special exhibition or gallery on the Polish Navy in
KSVM but that is grant dependant and a bigger task. Setting up a photograph
gallery would be easier perhaps with a link up to Wall of Names.

Kind regards
Anna Pacewicz
Sydney
(from Edinburgh)

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, martin stepek  wrote:
>
> Lucyna
>
>
>
> The Polish Navy was very small. Only 4,500. I know this because I have about a
dozen to twenty photos of my father and naval friends and colleagues, most of
whose identities I don’t know. If I get the time I’d like to set up a kind
of “Search for wartime Polish sailors photographs” website. This would allow
families of WW2 Polish Navy personnel to put up their photos and search
others’ to see if they can find previously unknown photos of their relatives.
After all if I have photos of Polish sailors in my possession it suggests that
others will have photos of my father in their possession. Anyone who could help
set this up please get in touch because I have the vision but neither the time
nor the expertise to do it properly.
>
>
>
> I wonder if anyone has any stats on the number of Siberiaks who ended up being
transferred to the navy. My Dad joined Anders Army on 10th Feb 1942 at Kermine,
contracted typhus so couldn’t leave with the vast majority of the troops,
eventually left in August 1942, promptly contracted dysentery twice then malaria
so spend from August 42 to January 43 in hospital in Teheran before rejoining
Anders in Basra, Iraq. There he promptly fell ill again. At that point a friend
told him the Navy were recruiting and Dad thought of it as a way to leave the
Middle-East and its tropical diseases. By March he was in Kirkcaldy here in
Scotland training before being transferred to Poland Naval HQ near Plymouth. For
the next two years he served as radar operator on Polish ships in Sicily, Italy
(including pounding around Monte Cassino to distract the enemy from defending it
in greater numbers), D-Day in Normandy and finally Germany itself.
>
>
>
> I think his war was quite rare for a Syberiak and would be interested to learn
if there are many - any? - other examples of transferences of survivors of
Siberia spending the war in the navy rather than army or civilian life.
>
>
>
> Martin Stepek
>
> Author, For There is Hope
>
> “tender and impassioned, it should be on every table where Poland is
discussed and the brave dead remembered” Neal Ascherson
>
> Available from Amazon, Waterstones or directly from the publishers
www.ettadunn.com
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>

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