Skip to search.

Breaking News Visit Yahoo! News for the latest.

×Close this window

Kresy-Siberia

The Yahoo! Groups Product Blog

Check it out!

Group Information

  • Members: 1184
  • Category: Poland
  • Founded: Sep 18, 2001
  • Language: English
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Hear how Yahoo! Groups has changed the lives of others. Take me there.

Messages

Advanced
Messages Help
Messages 35924 - 35953 of 56811   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Messages: Show Message Summaries Sort by Date ^  
#35924 From: Monica Janowski <monica.janowski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:22 am
Subject: Re: Britain finally honours Polish war effort with first official memorial
monicajanowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Where can one buy a copy of First to Fight, does anyone know? It
doesn't seem to be up on Amazon yet. Who are the publishers?

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 11:08, <loasby@...> wrote:

>
> Seventy years after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the first official
> war memorial in the UK to the 500,000 Poles who fought under British
> command in the second world war is to be dedicated as part of an
> emotional "last campaign" by veterans.
>
> Despite being the fourth largest allied army in the fight against
> Germany, Poland's role in the allies' ultimate victory has long been
> overlooked, said organisers.
>
> Polish veterans were profoundly shocked to discover young people in
> Britain asking whether Poland fought with Germany. To ensure the
> Polish contribution to Britain's war effort is never forgotten, a
> new book, First to Fight, is published today, the anniversary of the
> invasion.
>
> The book comes ahead of the unveiling of the Ł300,000 memorial at
> the National Memorial Arboretum on 19 September.
>
> "So many Polish veterans are no longer with us. They are dropping
> very fast. All we see are obituaries," said Dr Marek Stella-Sawicki,
> chair of the Polish War Memorial Committee and editor of the book
> detailing the roles of those who fought through personal accounts of
> surviving veterans.
>
> Lady Thatcher, patron of Conservative Friends of Poland and
> supporter of the last campaign, said: "We must never forget Poland's
> unique contribution to Britain's freedom and the defeat of Nazi
> Germany.
>
> "Poland fought alongside us from the first day of the war to the
> last. Her people showed extraordinary bravery, many giving their
> lives as the ultimate sacrifice. But the freedoms for which they
> fought were to be cruelly denied them in the postwar world."
>
> General the Lord Guthrie, a former chief of the defence staff, said:
> "We owe much to the Poles who came to join us in our struggle. There
> was a time when the only allies the British commonwealth had were
> Polish and large numbers died in battle many miles from their
> country. We are right to remember those gallant men and women, who,
> at a very difficult time in both our countries' histories, were our
> firm friends and allies."
>
> A ceremony at Westerplatte fort, in the harbour of Gdansk, Poland,
> where the first salvos of the war were fired, takes place today.
> Those attending include the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, the
> German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and Britain's foreign secretary,
> David Miliband.
>
> Sawicki, professor of computer science at University College London,
> whose parents met "through the wire" at a prisoner of war camp in
> Germany, said Poland was slighted when its soldiers and sailors were
> denied representation in the 1946 Victory Parade.
>
> He added that though the Arboretum, near Lichfield, Staffordshire,
> contained some 130 war memorials, until now none had been dedicated
> to the Poles killed during the second world war. Much of the
> Ł300,000 came from the public.
>
> As well as personal accounts, First to Fight also includes for the
> first time a full English translation of Stalin's signed order to
> execute 14,736 of the Polish Officer Corps at Katyn Forest, Russia,
> in 1940.
>
> From
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/01/polish-war-effort-memorial-book
>
> Rob
> Nottingham ,UK
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...

#35925 From: <loasby@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:07 am
Subject: RE: Britain finally honours Polish war effort with first official memorial
robloasby
Send Email Send Email
 
Monica,

This might help:

First to Fight: Poland's contribution to the Allied Victory in WWII
ISBN: 978-0-9557824-4-2
296 pages
Softcover
Illustrated with many photographs
UK Ł19.95

May not be on general release as yet, as they may want the launch to
coincide with the unveiling of the memorial.

More here - http://www.polishforcesmemorial.com/

Rob
Nottingham UK

-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Monica Janowski
Sent: 02 September 2009 11:22
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war effort with
first official memorial


Where can one buy a copy of First to Fight, does anyone know? It
doesn't seem to be up on Amazon yet. Who are the publishers?

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 11:08, <loasby@...> wrote:

>
> Seventy years after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the first official
> war memorial in the UK to the 500,000 Poles who fought under British
> command in the second world war is to be dedicated as part of an
> emotional "last campaign" by veterans.
>
> Despite being the fourth largest allied army in the fight against
> Germany, Poland's role in the allies' ultimate victory has long been
> overlooked, said organisers.
>
> Polish veterans were profoundly shocked to discover young people in
> Britain asking whether Poland fought with Germany. To ensure the
> Polish contribution to Britain's war effort is never forgotten, a
> new book, First to Fight, is published today, the anniversary of the
> invasion.
>
> The book comes ahead of the unveiling of the Ł300,000 memorial at
> the National Memorial Arboretum on 19 September.
>
> "So many Polish veterans are no longer with us. They are dropping
> very fast. All we see are obituaries," said Dr Marek Stella-Sawicki,
> chair of the Polish War Memorial Committee and editor of the book
> detailing the roles of those who fought through personal accounts of
> surviving veterans.
>
> Lady Thatcher, patron of Conservative Friends of Poland and
> supporter of the last campaign, said: "We must never forget Poland's
> unique contribution to Britain's freedom and the defeat of Nazi
> Germany.
>
> "Poland fought alongside us from the first day of the war to the
> last. Her people showed extraordinary bravery, many giving their
> lives as the ultimate sacrifice. But the freedoms for which they
> fought were to be cruelly denied them in the postwar world."
>
> General the Lord Guthrie, a former chief of the defence staff, said:
> "We owe much to the Poles who came to join us in our struggle. There
> was a time when the only allies the British commonwealth had were
> Polish and large numbers died in battle many miles from their
> country. We are right to remember those gallant men and women, who,
> at a very difficult time in both our countries' histories, were our
> firm friends and allies."
>
> A ceremony at Westerplatte fort, in the harbour of Gdansk, Poland,
> where the first salvos of the war were fired, takes place today.
> Those attending include the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, the
> German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and Britain's foreign secretary,
> David Miliband.
>
> Sawicki, professor of computer science at University College London,
> whose parents met "through the wire" at a prisoner of war camp in
> Germany, said Poland was slighted when its soldiers and sailors were
> denied representation in the 1946 Victory Parade.
>
> He added that though the Arboretum, near Lichfield, Staffordshire,
> contained some 130 war memorials, until now none had been dedicated
> to the Poles killed during the second world war. Much of the
> Ł300,000 came from the public.
>
> As well as personal accounts, First to Fight also includes for the
> first time a full English translation of Stalin's signed order to
> execute 14,736 of the Polish Officer Corps at Katyn Forest, Russia,
> in 1940.
>
> From
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/01/polish-war-effort-memorial
> -book
>
> Rob
> Nottingham ,UK
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...






------------------------------------

Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org

****************************************************************************
  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION  "Dedicated to
researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens  deported,
enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
  Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
  Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
  Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
  Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
  Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************

To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
   Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com


To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
  saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

  To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

****************************************************************************
Yahoo! Groups Links

#35926 From: Monica Janowski <monica.janowski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:18 am
Subject: Re: Britain finally honours Polish war effort with first official memorial
monicajanowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks. I've emailed the contact person on the website so hope to hear
something back.

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 12:07, <loasby@...> <loasby@...> wrote:

> Monica,
>
> This might help:
>
> First to Fight: Poland's contribution to the Allied Victory in WWII
> ISBN: 978-0-9557824-4-2
> 296 pages
> Softcover
> Illustrated with many photographs
> UK Ł19.95
>
> May not be on general release as yet, as they may want the launch to
> coincide with the unveiling of the memorial.
>
> More here - http://www.polishforcesmemorial.com/
>
> Rob
> Nottingham UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> On Behalf Of Monica Janowski
> Sent: 02 September 2009 11:22
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war
> effort with
> first official memorial
>
> Where can one buy a copy of First to Fight, does anyone know? It
> doesn't seem to be up on Amazon yet. Who are the publishers?
>
> Monica
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 11:08, <loasby@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Seventy years after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the first official
> > war memorial in the UK to the 500,000 Poles who fought under British
> > command in the second world war is to be dedicated as part of an
> > emotional "last campaign" by veterans.
> >
> > Despite being the fourth largest allied army in the fight against
> > Germany, Poland's role in the allies' ultimate victory has long been
> > overlooked, said organisers.
> >
> > Polish veterans were profoundly shocked to discover young people in
> > Britain asking whether Poland fought with Germany. To ensure the
> > Polish contribution to Britain's war effort is never forgotten, a
> > new book, First to Fight, is published today, the anniversary of the
> > invasion.
> >
> > The book comes ahead of the unveiling of the Ł300,000 memorial at
> > the National Memorial Arboretum on 19 September.
> >
> > "So many Polish veterans are no longer with us. They are dropping
> > very fast. All we see are obituaries," said Dr Marek Stella-Sawicki,
> > chair of the Polish War Memorial Committee and editor of the book
> > detailing the roles of those who fought through personal accounts of
> > surviving veterans.
> >
> > Lady Thatcher, patron of Conservative Friends of Poland and
> > supporter of the last campaign, said: "We must never forget Poland's
> > unique contribution to Britain's freedom and the defeat of Nazi
> > Germany.
> >
> > "Poland fought alongside us from the first day of the war to the
> > last. Her people showed extraordinary bravery, many giving their
> > lives as the ultimate sacrifice. But the freedoms for which they
> > fought were to be cruelly denied them in the postwar world."
> >
> > General the Lord Guthrie, a former chief of the defence staff, said:
> > "We owe much to the Poles who came to join us in our struggle. There
> > was a time when the only allies the British commonwealth had were
> > Polish and large numbers died in battle many miles from their
> > country. We are right to remember those gallant men and women, who,
> > at a very difficult time in both our countries' histories, were our
> > firm friends and allies."
> >
> > A ceremony at Westerplatte fort, in the harbour of Gdansk, Poland,
> > where the first salvos of the war were fired, takes place today.
> > Those attending include the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, the
> > German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and Britain's foreign secretary,
> > David Miliband.
> >
> > Sawicki, professor of computer science at University College London,
> > whose parents met "through the wire" at a prisoner of war camp in
> > Germany, said Poland was slighted when its soldiers and sailors were
> > denied representation in the 1946 Victory Parade.
> >
> > He added that though the Arboretum, near Lichfield, Staffordshire,
> > contained some 130 war memorials, until now none had been dedicated
> > to the Poles killed during the second world war. Much of the
> > Ł300,000 came from the public.
> >
> > As well as personal accounts, First to Fight also includes for the
> > first time a full English translation of Stalin's signed order to
> > execute 14,736 of the Polish Officer Corps at Katyn Forest, Russia,
> > in 1940.
> >
> > From
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/01/polish-war-effort-memorial
> > -book
> >
> > Rob
> > Nottingham ,UK
> >
> >
> >
>
> Monica Janowski
> 318 Cranbrook Road
> Ilford, Essex
> IG2 6EP
> Tel 020 8491 3041
> monica.janowski@...
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
> http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION "Dedicated to
> researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported,
> enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
>
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
> Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ****************************************************************************
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...

#35927 From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:28 pm
Subject: Survivor denounces pact as blaming the victim
lucyna_98
Send Email Send Email
 

 

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/world/survivor-denounces-pact-as-blaming-the-victim-20090902-f8h6.html

 

 

 

Survivor denounces pact as blaming the victim

DAMIEN MURPHY

September 3, 2009

ALEX ZUBRZYCKI, of Canberra, was 17 when she fled German guns in Cracow for what she and her parents thought would be the safety of Vilnius, in northern Poland.

It was September 4, 1939, but instead of sanctuary a few weeks later, the family ran into invading Russians in the city that for centuries had been a pawn in the wars between the empires of Poland and Russia and is now the capital of Lithuania.

Her father died in Vilnius and the following year, with Russia and Germany locked in battle on the Eastern Front, she and her mother were put on a cattle truck and taken to a slave labour camp in Kazakhstan, where Mrs Zubrzycki saw things she does not want to talk about because they break her 87-year-old heart.

She said suggestions from Russia on the 70th anniversary of the outbreak of war that Poland had entered into a secret pact with Nazi Germany to remain neutral if it attacked the Soviet Union was more than risible.

''It's rubbish,'' Mrs Zubrzycki said yesterday. ''The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact had partitioned Lithuania and Poland into German and Soviet spheres of interest. We didn't want anybody invading our country, be they from Germany or Russia.''

Mrs Zubrzycki, the daughter of a Cracow civil engineer who came to Australia in 1955 with her husband, Jerzy Zubrzycki, an academic, said the latest Russian claims were an attempt to rewrite history and blame the victims for the horrific experiences that had been visited upon them.

''Blaming the victim is a well-worn path of invaders and bullies,'' she said.

''I was a young girl who knew nothing about politics.

''All I remember were the bombs and the soldiers with guns. When we fled Cracow there were families with young children and old people - and the men and young men stayed behind to fight. I met many in Kazakhstan who were later released by the Russians to fight the Axis powers in Italy.

''Nobody could seriously think so many millions of Polish men, young and old, could be sent to their deaths by their own Polish government.''

 


#35928 From: "Krys Dobrzanski" <krysdobrzanski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:47 pm
Subject: new book
krysdobrzanski
Send Email Send Email
 
Monica,

Another new book that you might be interested in is:

"NO GREATER ALLY: The Untold Story of Poland's Forces in World War II" by
Kenneth K. Koskodan
ISBN-13: 978 1 84603 365 0
Publisher: Osprey
Price: Ł12.59 from Amazon.co.uk
http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Greater-Ally-Polands-Military/dp/1846033659/ref=sr_1_\
1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251902787&sr=8-1

#35929 From: "Barbara Charuba" <charubab@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:52 pm
Subject: RE: Britain finally honours Polish war effort with first official memorial
charubab
Send Email Send Email
 
I just found the book on Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557504644?ie=UTF8&tag=marcorboo-20&linkCode=as\
2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1557504644


Barbara Charuba
Barrie ON Canada


-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of Monica Janowski
Sent: September 2, 2009 7:19 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war effort with
first official memorial

Thanks. I've emailed the contact person on the website so hope to hear
something back.

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 12:07, <loasby@...> <loasby@...> wrote:

> Monica,
>
> This might help:
>
> First to Fight: Poland's contribution to the Allied Victory in WWII
> ISBN: 978-0-9557824-4-2
> 296 pages
> Softcover
> Illustrated with many photographs
> UK Ł19.95
>
> May not be on general release as yet, as they may want the launch to
> coincide with the unveiling of the memorial.
>
> More here - http://www.polishforcesmemorial.com/
>
> Rob
> Nottingham UK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> ]
> On Behalf Of Monica Janowski
> Sent: 02 September 2009 11:22
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war
> effort with
> first official memorial
>
> Where can one buy a copy of First to Fight, does anyone know? It
> doesn't seem to be up on Amazon yet. Who are the publishers?
>
> Monica
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 11:08, <loasby@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Seventy years after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the first official
> > war memorial in the UK to the 500,000 Poles who fought under British
> > command in the second world war is to be dedicated as part of an
> > emotional "last campaign" by veterans.
> >
> > Despite being the fourth largest allied army in the fight against
> > Germany, Poland's role in the allies' ultimate victory has long been
> > overlooked, said organisers.
> >
> > Polish veterans were profoundly shocked to discover young people in
> > Britain asking whether Poland fought with Germany. To ensure the
> > Polish contribution to Britain's war effort is never forgotten, a
> > new book, First to Fight, is published today, the anniversary of the
> > invasion.
> >
> > The book comes ahead of the unveiling of the Ł300,000 memorial at
> > the National Memorial Arboretum on 19 September.
> >
> > "So many Polish veterans are no longer with us. They are dropping
> > very fast. All we see are obituaries," said Dr Marek Stella-Sawicki,
> > chair of the Polish War Memorial Committee and editor of the book
> > detailing the roles of those who fought through personal accounts of
> > surviving veterans.
> >
> > Lady Thatcher, patron of Conservative Friends of Poland and
> > supporter of the last campaign, said: "We must never forget Poland's
> > unique contribution to Britain's freedom and the defeat of Nazi
> > Germany.
> >
> > "Poland fought alongside us from the first day of the war to the
> > last. Her people showed extraordinary bravery, many giving their
> > lives as the ultimate sacrifice. But the freedoms for which they
> > fought were to be cruelly denied them in the postwar world."
> >
> > General the Lord Guthrie, a former chief of the defence staff, said:
> > "We owe much to the Poles who came to join us in our struggle. There
> > was a time when the only allies the British commonwealth had were
> > Polish and large numbers died in battle many miles from their
> > country. We are right to remember those gallant men and women, who,
> > at a very difficult time in both our countries' histories, were our
> > firm friends and allies."
> >
> > A ceremony at Westerplatte fort, in the harbour of Gdansk, Poland,
> > where the first salvos of the war were fired, takes place today.
> > Those attending include the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, the
> > German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and Britain's foreign secretary,
> > David Miliband.
> >
> > Sawicki, professor of computer science at University College London,
> > whose parents met "through the wire" at a prisoner of war camp in
> > Germany, said Poland was slighted when its soldiers and sailors were
> > denied representation in the 1946 Victory Parade.
> >
> > He added that though the Arboretum, near Lichfield, Staffordshire,
> > contained some 130 war memorials, until now none had been dedicated
> > to the Poles killed during the second world war. Much of the
> > Ł300,000 came from the public.
> >
> > As well as personal accounts, First to Fight also includes for the
> > first time a full English translation of Stalin's signed order to
> > execute 14,736 of the Polish Officer Corps at Katyn Forest, Russia,
> > in 1940.
> >
> > From
> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/01/polish-war-effort-memorial
> > -book
> >
> > Rob
> > Nottingham ,UK
> >
> >
> >
>
> Monica Janowski
> 318 Cranbrook Road
> Ilford, Essex
> IG2 6EP
> Tel 020 8491 3041
> monica.janowski@...
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
> http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION "Dedicated to
> researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported,
> enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
>
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
> Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> ****************************************************************************
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...






------------------------------------

Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org

****************************************************************************
  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
  Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
  Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
  Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
  Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
  Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************
To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
   Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com


To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
  saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
  Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

  To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
  Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

****************************************************************************Yaho\
o!
Groups Links

#35930 From: "Krys Dobrzanski" <krysdobrzanski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:04 pm
Subject: new book
krysdobrzanski
Send Email Send Email
 
Sorry it flew off before I had a chance to add my name,

With warmest regards,

Krys - Ipswich, UK

(Krystyna Dobrzanska - researching Starzak)

P.S. Barbara the book link leads to "First to Fight: AN INSIDE VIEW OF THE
US MARINE CORPS!  to
> Monica,
>
> Another new book that you might be interested in is:
>
> "NO GREATER ALLY: The Untold Story of Poland's Forces in World War II" by
> Kenneth K. Koskodan
> ISBN-13: 978 1 84603 365 0
> Publisher: Osprey
> Price: Ł12.59 from Amazon.co.uk
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Greater-Ally-Polands-Military/dp/1846033659/ref=sr_1_\
1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251902787&sr=8-1
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
> http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
****************************************************************************Yaho\
o!
> Groups Links
>
>
>

#35931 From: Monica Janowski <monica.janowski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:25 pm
Subject: Re: new book
monicajanowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Thanks, Krys.

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 15:47, Krys Dobrzanski wrote:

> Monica,
>
> Another new book that you might be interested in is:
>
> "NO GREATER ALLY: The Untold Story of Poland's Forces in World War
> II" by
> Kenneth K. Koskodan
> ISBN-13: 978 1 84603 365 0
> Publisher: Osprey
> Price: Ł12.59 from Amazon.co.uk
>
http://www.amazon.co.uk/No-Greater-Ally-Polands-Military/dp/1846033659/ref=sr_1_\
1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251902787&sr=8-1
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
> citizens
> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
> Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
****************************************************************************Yaho\
o
> ! Groups Links
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...

#35932 From: Monica Janowski <monica.janowski@...>
Date: Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:26 pm
Subject: Re: Britain finally honours Polish war effort with first official memorial
monicajanowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Barbara - I think the book you've found is about the US Marine Corps...

Monica

On 2 Sep 2009, at 15:52, Barbara Charuba wrote:

> I just found the book on Amazon.com
>
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557504644?ie=UTF8&tag=marcorboo-20&linkCode=as\
2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1557504644
>
>
> Barbara Charuba
> Barrie ON Canada
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> ] On
> Behalf Of Monica Janowski
> Sent: September 2, 2009 7:19 AM
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war
> effort with
> first official memorial
>
> Thanks. I've emailed the contact person on the website so hope to hear
> something back.
>
> Monica
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 12:07, <loasby@...> <loasby@...> wrote:
>
>> Monica,
>>
>> This might help:
>>
>> First to Fight: Poland's contribution to the Allied Victory in WWII
>> ISBN: 978-0-9557824-4-2
>> 296 pages
>> Softcover
>> Illustrated with many photographs
>> UK Ł19.95
>>
>> May not be on general release as yet, as they may want the launch to
>> coincide with the unveiling of the memorial.
>>
>> More here - http://www.polishforcesmemorial.com/
>>
>> Rob
>> Nottingham UK
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>> ]
>> On Behalf Of Monica Janowski
>> Sent: 02 September 2009 11:22
>> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Britain finally honours Polish war
>> effort with
>> first official memorial
>>
>> Where can one buy a copy of First to Fight, does anyone know? It
>> doesn't seem to be up on Amazon yet. Who are the publishers?
>>
>> Monica
>>
>> On 2 Sep 2009, at 11:08, <loasby@...> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Seventy years after the Nazi invasion of Poland, the first official
>>> war memorial in the UK to the 500,000 Poles who fought under British
>>> command in the second world war is to be dedicated as part of an
>>> emotional "last campaign" by veterans.
>>>
>>> Despite being the fourth largest allied army in the fight against
>>> Germany, Poland's role in the allies' ultimate victory has long been
>>> overlooked, said organisers.
>>>
>>> Polish veterans were profoundly shocked to discover young people in
>>> Britain asking whether Poland fought with Germany. To ensure the
>>> Polish contribution to Britain's war effort is never forgotten, a
>>> new book, First to Fight, is published today, the anniversary of the
>>> invasion.
>>>
>>> The book comes ahead of the unveiling of the Ł300,000 memorial at
>>> the National Memorial Arboretum on 19 September.
>>>
>>> "So many Polish veterans are no longer with us. They are dropping
>>> very fast. All we see are obituaries," said Dr Marek Stella-Sawicki,
>>> chair of the Polish War Memorial Committee and editor of the book
>>> detailing the roles of those who fought through personal accounts of
>>> surviving veterans.
>>>
>>> Lady Thatcher, patron of Conservative Friends of Poland and
>>> supporter of the last campaign, said: "We must never forget Poland's
>>> unique contribution to Britain's freedom and the defeat of Nazi
>>> Germany.
>>>
>>> "Poland fought alongside us from the first day of the war to the
>>> last. Her people showed extraordinary bravery, many giving their
>>> lives as the ultimate sacrifice. But the freedoms for which they
>>> fought were to be cruelly denied them in the postwar world."
>>>
>>> General the Lord Guthrie, a former chief of the defence staff, said:
>>> "We owe much to the Poles who came to join us in our struggle. There
>>> was a time when the only allies the British commonwealth had were
>>> Polish and large numbers died in battle many miles from their
>>> country. We are right to remember those gallant men and women, who,
>>> at a very difficult time in both our countries' histories, were our
>>> firm friends and allies."
>>>
>>> A ceremony at Westerplatte fort, in the harbour of Gdansk, Poland,
>>> where the first salvos of the war were fired, takes place today.
>>> Those attending include the Polish prime minister, Donald Tusk, the
>>> German chancellor, Angela Merkel, and Britain's foreign secretary,
>>> David Miliband.
>>>
>>> Sawicki, professor of computer science at University College London,
>>> whose parents met "through the wire" at a prisoner of war camp in
>>> Germany, said Poland was slighted when its soldiers and sailors were
>>> denied representation in the 1946 Victory Parade.
>>>
>>> He added that though the Arboretum, near Lichfield, Staffordshire,
>>> contained some 130 war memorials, until now none had been dedicated
>>> to the Poles killed during the second world war. Much of the
>>> Ł300,000 came from the public.
>>>
>>> As well as personal accounts, First to Fight also includes for the
>>> first time a full English translation of Stalin's signed order to
>>> execute 14,736 of the Polish Officer Corps at Katyn Forest, Russia,
>>> in 1940.
>>>
>>> From
>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/sep/01/polish-war-effort-memorial
>>> -book
>>>
>>> Rob
>>> Nottingham ,UK
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Monica Janowski
>> 318 Cranbrook Road
>> Ilford, Essex
>> IG2 6EP
>> Tel 020 8491 3041
>> monica.janowski@...
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
>> http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>>
>> ****************************************************************************
>> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION "Dedicated to
>> researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
>> deported,
>> enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
>> ****************************************************************************
>> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
>> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
>> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
>> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
>> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
>> ****************************************************************************
>>
>> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
>> Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
>> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
>> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
>> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>
>> ****************************************************************************
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
> Monica Janowski
> 318 Cranbrook Road
> Ilford, Essex
> IG2 6EP
> Tel 020 8491 3041
> monica.janowski@...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
> http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
> citizens
> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
> Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
****************************************************************************Yaho\
o
> !
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish
> citizens
> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War
> Two."
> ****************************************************************************
> Discussion site http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall http://www.kresy-siberia.org/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) http://www.kresy-siberia.org/photo.html
> Booklist http://www.kresy-siberia.org/books.html
> Film http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
> ****************************************************************************
> To CONTACT the Group Moderators please send an e-mail to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
>
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> To UNSUBSCRIBE from this group, send an email to:
> Kresy-Siberia-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
****************************************************************************Yaho\
o
> ! Groups Links
>
>
>

Monica Janowski
318 Cranbrook Road
Ilford, Essex
IG2 6EP
Tel 020 8491 3041
monica.janowski@...

#35933 From: Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@...>
Date: Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:45 pm
Subject: Re: Lusaka Zambia
boncza2004
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi, Krystyna,
Please contact  Fr. Josef Matyjek, SJ - missionary from Poland for many years in Zambia, Lusaca and Mumbwa. Please let him now about Polish graves!
Home telephone 260 211 800085 ( 260 -Zambia, 211  you add when colling from outside Zambia)
His cell phone is 260 955 689 689. 
955 this is # telephone company: Cell Z
Thank you very much,  Bog zaplac
Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska
from Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
 

Stefan, I will do my best ........krystyna
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 

Krys

Please bring back a photo of each gravestone and a transcript of the burial records !

Thanks

Stefan

From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy- Siberia@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Krystyna Freiburger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 

I am leaving this coming Saturday for Africa and I will be visiting Lusaka, Zambia (used to be Northen Rhodesia) where my mom and oldest brother spent 5 years during the war. Of course the camp is no longer there but I will visit the  Polish Cemetary. If anyone of you has someone buried there please let me know and I will be sure to light a candle and say a few prayers. Kasisi Children's Home is also still there and I will be visiting Sister Mariola who will show me around......

Krystyna Freiburger

Onatrio, Canada



#35934 From: "Krystyna Freiburger" <krystynafreiburger@...>
Date: Thu Sep 3, 2009 5:25 pm
Subject: Re: Lusaka Zambia
zembocin
Send Email Send Email
 
Hi Elzbieta...thank you for the information about Ks Josef Matyjek......
I'm not quite sure what I should tell him about the polish graves....maybe you mean that I ask him about the Polish graves.....maybe he can help with getting a transcript.
krystyna piotrowska freiburger
ontario, canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

Hi, Krystyna,
Please contact  Fr. Josef Matyjek, SJ - missionary from Poland for many years in Zambia, Lusaca and Mumbwa. Please let him now about Polish graves!
Home telephone 260 211 800085 ( 260 -Zambia, 211  you add when colling from outside Zambia)
His cell phone is 260 955 689 689. 
955 this is # telephone company: Cell Z
Thank you very much,  Bog zaplac
Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska
from Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
 

Stefan, I will do my best ........krystyna
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 

Krys

Please bring back a photo of each gravestone and a transcript of the burial records !

Thanks

Stefan

From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy- Siberia@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Krystyna Freiburger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

I am leaving this coming Saturday for Africa and I will be visiting Lusaka, Zambia (used to be Northen Rhodesia) where my mom and oldest brother spent 5 years during the war. Of course the camp is no longer there but I will visit the  Polish Cemetary. If anyone of you has someone buried there please let me know and I will be sure to light a candle and say a few prayers. Kasisi Children's Home is also still there and I will be visiting Sister Mariola who will show me around......

Krystyna Freiburger

Onatrio, Canada



#35935 From: Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@...>
Date: Thu Sep 3, 2009 9:36 pm
Subject: Re: Lusaka Zambia
boncza2004
Send Email Send Email
 
Hello Krystyna
Fr Josef knew my mother Dr. Maria Tomaszewska and her lager history (10 years Czelabinsk Siberia, returned to Poland in 1954 after 10 years of the lager camp and my and my grandmother  Kazakhstan/Siberia  experience from 1940 to 1946.
I am not sure if he knows about Polish Graves.    If it will be too difficult  - he is sometimes in very remote areas - don't worry about t it..
have a wonderful trip
Elzbieta  from Atlanta, GA, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
Hi Elzbieta...thank you for the information about Ks Josef Matyjek......
I'm not quite sure what I should tell him about the polish graves....maybe you mean that I ask him about the Polish graves.....maybe he can help with getting a transcript.
krystyna piotrowska freiburger
ontario, canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

Hi, Krystyna,
Please contact  Fr. Josef Matyjek, SJ - missionary from Poland for many years in Zambia, Lusaca and Mumbwa. Please let him now about Polish graves!
Home telephone 260 211 800085 ( 260 -Zambia, 211  you add when colling from outside Zambia)
His cell phone is 260 955 689 689. 
955 this is # telephone company: Cell Z
Thank you very much,  Bog zaplac
Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska
from Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
 
Stefan, I will do my best ........krystyna
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 

Krys

Please bring back a photo of each gravestone and a transcript of the burial records !

Thanks

Stefan

From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy- Siberia@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Krystyna Freiburger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

I am leaving this coming Saturday for Africa and I will be visiting Lusaka, Zambia (used to be Northen Rhodesia) where my mom and oldest brother spent 5 years during the war. Of course the camp is no longer there but I will visit the  Polish Cemetary. If anyone of you has someone buried there please let me know and I will be sure to light a candle and say a few prayers. Kasisi Children's Home is also still there and I will be visiting Sister Mariola who will show me around......

Krystyna Freiburger

Onatrio, Canada




#35936 From: Krystyna Styrna <thymetrax@...>
Date: Thu Sep 3, 2009 10:46 pm
Subject: Lusaka Zambia-O. JĂłzef Matyjek SJ
thymetrax
Send Email Send Email
 
Is this O. JĂłzef Matyjek SJ ?
Główną troską, spośród państw afrykańskich, polscy jezuici otaczają Zambię. Najbardziej znanym misjonarzem Zambii, jest o. Adam Kozłowiecki SJ, mianowany kardynałem w 1998 roku. O specyfice pracy na południu Afryki opowie nam O. Józef Matyjek SJ.


http://www.jezuici.pl/pow/articles/30/n/5

 
Pozdrawiam bardzo serdecznie
Krystyna Styrna


--- 3.9.09 (Czw), Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@...> napisał(a):

Od: Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@...>
Temat: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia
Do: "Krystyna Freiburger" <krystynafreiburger@...>
DW: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "Jozef M. Matyjek S.J." <jmmatyjek@...>, "Jozef Matyjek" <jmmatyjek@...>
Data: 3 Wrzesień 2009 (Czwartek), 16:36

 
Hello Krystyna
Fr Josef knew my mother Dr. Maria Tomaszewska and her lager history (10 years Czelabinsk Siberia, returned to Poland in 1954 after 10 years of the lager camp and my and my grandmother  Kazakhstan/Siberia  experience from 1940 to 1946.
I am not sure if he knows about Polish Graves.    If it will be too difficult  - he is sometimes in very remote areas - don't worry about t it..
have a wonderful trip
Elzbieta  from Atlanta, GA, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
Hi Elzbieta...thank you for the information about Ks Josef Matyjek..... .
I'm not quite sure what I should tell him about the polish graves....maybe you mean that I ask him about the Polish graves.....maybe he can help with getting a transcript.
krystyna piotrowska freiburger
ontario, canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

Hi, Krystyna,
Please contact  Fr. Josef Matyjek, SJ - missionary from Poland for many years in Zambia, Lusaca and Mumbwa. Please let him now about Polish graves!
Home telephone 260 211 800085 ( 260 -Zambia, 211  you add when colling from outside Zambia)
His cell phone is 260 955 689 689. 
955 this is # telephone company: Cell Z
Thank you very much,  Bog zaplac
Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska
from Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
 
Stefan, I will do my best ........krystyna
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 
Krys
Please bring back a photo of each gravestone and a transcript of the burial records !
Thanks
Stefan
From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy- Siberia@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Krystyna Freiburger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia
I am leaving this coming Saturday for Africa and I will be visiting Lusaka, Zambia (used to be Northen Rhodesia) where my mom and oldest brother spent 5 years during the war. Of course the camp is no longer there but I will visit the  Polish Cemetary. If anyone of you has someone buried there please let me know and I will be sure to light a candle and say a few prayers. Kasisi Children's Home is also still there and I will be visiting Sister Mariola who will show me around......
Krystyna Freiburger
Onatrio, Canada




Czy juĹĽ jesteĹ› w Yahoo!?
Masz dosyć spamu? Poczta Yahoo! dysponuje najlepszą ochroną przed spamem
http://pl.mail.yahoo.com

#35937 From: Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@...>
Date: Fri Sep 4, 2009 6:32 am
Subject: Re: Lusaka Zambia-O. JĂłzef Matyjek SJ
boncza2004
Send Email Send Email
 
Tak, to ten sam O. Jozef M. Matyjek SJ,
Bardzo, bardzo dziekuje za artykul, ktorego nie znalam.
Bardzo serdeczne pozdrowienia,
Elzbieta Krawczynska
z Atlanty GA, USA
PS Wysylamy czasem pieniadze z Polskiego Apostolatu w Atlancie, stale brakuje tam pieniedzy, samochody psuja sie, nie ma pieniedzy na elektrycznosc i benzyne. Ksieza sa okradani..

Krystyna Styrna wrote:
 
Is this O. JĂłzef Matyjek SJ ?
Główną troską, spośród państw afrykańskich, polscy jezuici otaczają Zambię. Najbardziej znanym misjonarzem Zambii, jest o. Adam Kozłowiecki SJ, mianowany kardynałem w 1998 roku. O specyfice pracy na południu Afryki opowie nam O. Józef Matyjek SJ.


http://www.jezuici. pl/pow/articles/ 30/n/5

 
Pozdrawiam bardzo serdecznie
Krystyna Styrna


--- 3.9.09 (Czw), Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@emory. edu> napisał(a):

Od: Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska <egurtle@emory. edu>
Temat: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia
Do: "Krystyna Freiburger" <krystynafreiburger@ sympatico. ca>
DW: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com, "Jozef M. Matyjek S.J." <jmmatyjek@zamnet. zm>, "Jozef Matyjek" <jmmatyjek@yahoo. com>
Data: 3 Wrzesień 2009 (Czwartek), 16:36

 
Hello Krystyna
Fr Josef knew my mother Dr. Maria Tomaszewska and her lager history (10 years Czelabinsk Siberia, returned to Poland in 1954 after 10 years of the lager camp and my and my grandmother  Kazakhstan/Siberia  experience from 1940 to 1946.
I am not sure if he knows about Polish Graves.    If it will be too difficult  - he is sometimes in very remote areas - don't worry about t it..
have a wonderful trip
Elzbieta  from Atlanta, GA, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
Hi Elzbieta...thank you for the information about Ks Josef Matyjek..... .
I'm not quite sure what I should tell him about the polish graves....maybe you mean that I ask him about the Polish graves.....maybe he can help with getting a transcript.
krystyna piotrowska freiburger
ontario, canada
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

Hi, Krystyna,
Please contact  Fr. Josef Matyjek, SJ - missionary from Poland for many years in Zambia, Lusaca and Mumbwa. Please let him now about Polish graves!
Home telephone 260 211 800085 ( 260 -Zambia, 211  you add when colling from outside Zambia)
His cell phone is 260 955 689 689. 
955 this is # telephone company: Cell Z
Thank you very much,  Bog zaplac
Elzbieta Gurtler-Krawczynska
from Atlanta, Georgia, USA

Krystyna Freiburger wrote:
 
Stefan, I will do my best ........krystyna
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 4:27 PM
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia

 
Krys
Please bring back a photo of each gravestone and a transcript of the burial records !
Thanks
Stefan
From: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:Kresy- Siberia@yahoogro ups.com] On Behalf Of Krystyna Freiburger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 2:10 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Lusaka Zambia
I am leaving this coming Saturday for Africa and I will be visiting Lusaka, Zambia (used to be Northen Rhodesia) where my mom and oldest brother spent 5 years during the war. Of course the camp is no longer there but I will visit the  Polish Cemetary. If anyone of you has someone buried there please let me know and I will be sure to light a candle and say a few prayers. Kasisi Children's Home is also still there and I will be visiting Sister Mariola who will show me around......
Krystyna Freiburger
Onatrio, Canada



Czy juĹĽ jesteĹ› w Yahoo!?
Masz dosyć spamu? Poczta Yahoo! dysponuje najlepszą ochroną przed spamem
http://pl.mail. yahoo.com


#35938 From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>
Date: Fri Sep 4, 2009 10:39 am
Subject: Nothing to apologise for
lucyna_98
Send Email Send Email
 

 

 

 

http://www.mnweekly.ru/comment/20090831/55386887.html

 

 

 

 

31/08/2009 | Moscow News ą33 2009

Nothing to apologise for

> print version

Yuly Kvitsinsky

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was timely and essential for the Soviet Union, and was a legitimate political strategy. Russian lawmakers should now revise the rash decisions of the Soviet parliament in 1989, which criticised the pact for being immoral and for violating international law.

By the late 1930s, especially after the 1938 Munich Agreement, Moscow was internationally isolated and the Axis powers were unleashing one armed conflict after another. So the pact was a brilliant step on Stalin's part - it allowed the Soviet Union to achieve many goals, and practically pre-ordained the formation of the anti-Hitler coalition after Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941.

Britain and France were so eager to come to terms with Hitler at the expense of other countries, and to encourage Nazi forces to approach the Soviet borders, that it was pointless to mark time any longer. Stalin held talks with Britain and France up to summer 1939, but they produced no results. Both countries dragged out the talks in the hope of a Soviet-German war, which would allow them to guarantee their own security.

Hitler was clearly determined to start a war against Poland, which was not likely to receive help from the West. Hitler would try to extend his influence to the Baltic countries, creating a powerful bridgehead to attack the Soviet Union. He was not to be trusted, given his goals of destroying the Slavic Russian state and colonising Eastern Europe, which were covered up by his statements about the need to put an end to Bolshevism.

The Munich conspiracy also highlighted the dangerous role of Poland, which took part in the partition of Czechoslovakia and according to Polish intelligence documents would have fought alongside Germany in the event of war with the Soviet Union.

It is enough to visit museums in Minsk to see that Soviet defences were not aimed at Germany, but to guard against Poland, which was a permanent military threat to us.

What happened to Poland is tragic. The interests of its people were trampled underfoot, but that was retribution for the actions of its foolish and opportunistic government. Stalin and other Soviet leaders believed that eliminating a military threat near the Soviet border was a smart move.

The entry of Soviet troops into eastern Poland in September 1939 was aimed at pushing the frontiers back before the start of an inevitable war, and at gaining time.

Soviet troops only moved into Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, territories that Poland had seized during the war with Russia in 1921. We withdrew from the strictly Polish regions, and exchanged them for Lithuania, traditionally part of the Russian empire.

We entered the Baltic countries because we could not be sure of their governments' friendly attitude, and we knew about German plans to invade Latvia and Lithuania.

Those who claim the Soviet Union is as much to blame for the outbreak of World War II as Nazi Germany do not have a clear conscience. Initially, Nazi-occupied Europe did not offer any resistance to Germany, and its industry worked for Hitler's army. Germany attacked us not only with its 152 divisions but also with 29 Romanian and Finnish ones.

The Soviet Union was the only force that could rout Nazism. The lightning defeat of France and British forces in 1940 bore this out. If it had not been for the Eastern Front, where we destroyed hundreds of Nazi divisions at the cost of huge losses, no US or British army would have dared enter Europe. They would have been smashed by the Germans in weeks.

Winston Churchill was right to call the British and French policy of urging Hitler to attack the Soviet Union a diplomatic blunder. He agreed that Stalin simply had no other choice.

Those who say we should condemn the pact should apologise to our war veterans and our country for their political stunts or simple stupidity. We have nothing to apologise for. The defeat of Nazi Germany created a situation where not one cannon was fired without Russia's consent, as they said after the Napoleonic War.

So we shouldn't get defensive when the pact is discussed. Politicians should act in the interests of their state and their people - otherwise they would be committing a crime.

Yuly Kvitinsky is the First Deputy Chairman of the State Duma International Relations Committee. A full version of his comments can be viewed on RIA Novosti's web site: www.en.rian.ru

 


#35939 From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>
Date: Fri Sep 4, 2009 2:52 pm
Subject: A Cool-Headed Look at 1939
lucyna_98
Send Email Send Email
 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/05/opinion/05iht-edlieven.html?hpw

 

 

 

Op-Ed Contributor

A Cool-Headed Look at 1939

By ANATOL LIEVEN

Published: September 4, 2009

In the Polish-Russian dispute over what happened in 1939, rival myth-making is being driven by domestic political calculations on both sides. Polish right-wing politicians including the present president have used the memory of 1939 and the alleged continuity of Soviet and Russian policy to whip up nationalist feelings and bolster their support. In Russia, the Putin-Medvedev administration also has mobilized Russian nationalism and has avoided condemnation of many Soviet crimes, since it itself is largely based on institutions inherited from the Soviet Union, including the security services.

Viewed from one angle, the Polish side is more to blame for this unnecessary dispute. Russian governments have long since apologized both for the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and the Katyn massacre. As for the idea of moral equivalence between the history of Nazi Germany and of the Soviet Union as a whole, that should have been laid to rest by the way in which the Soviet Union withdrew peacefully from Eastern Europe after 1989, and then imploded itself — remarkably peacefully for such a huge state. This is not something that one can imagine Nazi Germany doing.

Furthermore, it does need to be acknowledged that while Soviet victory in World War II imposed a dreadful Communist system on Poland, it also saved Poland from what would have been its infinitely more ghastly fate under Nazi rule — which we know from Hitler’s plans for the systematic destruction of the Poles as a national community.

However, viewed from another angle, the Russian government is more to blame in this dispute, because of its wider failure to address adequately the history of Soviet crimes. The fact that many of the foreign governments demanding this have completely failed to address the historical crimes of their own countries is a partial excuse for this but not an adequate one.

The Russian government owes it not just to foreign countries but to the Russian people themselves to examine and discuss these crimes, since (quite unlike in the case of the Nazis) such a high proportion of Stalin’s victims were ethnic Russians or inhabitants of what is now the Russian Federation. This is the crux of what I take to be a fair judgment on the present dispute over 1939. It is that Vladimir Putin is basically correct in his judgment on the strategic calculations of that year, but badly at fault in his judgment of the political systems of the time.

The Polish president, Lech Kaczynski, apologized this month for Poland’s role in Hitler’s partition of Czechoslovakia, stating that, “Poland’s participation in the annexation of Czechoslovakia in 1938 was not only an error, but above all a sin.” He should have added that this built on an earlier criminal error, that of Poland’s nonaggression pact with Nazi Germany in 1934, which effectively demolished France’s alliance system in Eastern Europe, and made it much harder to prevent Nazi Germany’s expansion in the mid-1930s.

As for Britain and France, there have been frequent public acknowledgments of the obvious fact that not merely did they not fight for Czechoslovakia in 1938, but that although they declared war on Germany when Hitler attacked Poland in September 1939, they did virtually nothing to help Poland militarily. Allied action on the Western front during Hitler’s conquest of Poland was derisory. In Britain’s case it could not have been anything else, since at that stage Britain had only three divisions fully equipped and prepared to fight on the Continent.

This leads to the question: If Stalin had declared war or risked war with Germany in 1939, and Hitler had extended his attack on Poland to an invasion of the Soviet Union, what would Britain and France have done to help? The answer is blindingly obvious: Just what they did to help Poland — nothing. As for the United States, its own absence in 1939 does not allow its representatives any right to take any position on these issues. Mr. Putin and other Russian representatives are perfectly entitled to point this out.

In the case of a Soviet-German war in 1939, an additional factor would have been at play, which was the openly expressed desire of some conservative circles in both Britain and France for a war between Nazism and Communism that would destroy both.

So from the point of view of strategic calculation, Stalin’s actions in turning the tables on Britain and France were quite understandable, and would have been followed by most countries in the same circumstances. The same goes for the moves to increase Moscow’s strategic depth by the military occupation of eastern Poland and the Baltic States.

So far, so realistic. However, What Mr. Putin and other Russian representatives have not fully acknowledged and perhaps do not even fully understand is that while many regimes would have followed Stalin’s strategic actions in 1939, very few would have committed the monstrous crimes that accompanied those actions: the mass murder of Polish prisoners of war; the murder of sections of the ruling class and intelligentsia in the territories Stalin annexed; and the deportation and in many cases death by starvation and disease of hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens. If these were not crimes on the scale of the Nazi Holocaust, they were nonetheless monstrous crimes, which followed on even more monstrous crimes committed against inhabitants of the Soviet Union.

Poles and others should drop the suggestion that the Soviet Union was the moral equivalent of Nazi Germany, and that contemporary Russia should acknowledge this. It is appallingly offensive to all Russians, and especially the vast number whose own families suffered terribly under Stalin. This approach virtually ensures a continuation of hostility between the Polish and Russian peoples, which every responsible leader should seek to diminish. Equally, Russians themselves, and everyone who has Russian interests at heart, should demand from the Russian government a much more searching public examination of the crimes of the Soviet Union against its own people and others.

Anatol Lieven is a professor in the War Studies Department of King’s College London and a senior fellow of the New America Foundation. He is currently working on a book about Pakistan.

 


#35940 From: stefan.wisniowski@...
Date: Fri Sep 4, 2009 4:46 pm
Subject: RE: Nothing to apologise for
skwisniowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Old habits sure die hard (or not at all).  It is the part about reviving the Russian empire that rings the most true!

Stefan Wisniowski
Sydney


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Nothing to apologise for
From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>
Date: Fri, September 04, 2009 8:39 pm
To: <300PolishSquadron@yahoogroups.com>,
<Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>

 
 
 
 
http://www.mnweekly.ru/comment/20090831/55386887.html
 
 

 

 
Nothing to apologise for
Yuly Kvitsinsky
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was timely and essential for the Soviet Union, and was a legitimate political strategy. Russian lawmakers should now revise the rash decisions of the Soviet parliament in 1989, which criticised the pact for being immoral and for violating international law.
By the late 1930s, especially after the 1938 Munich Agreement, Moscow was internationally isolated and the Axis powers were unleashing one armed conflict after another. So the pact was a brilliant step on Stalin's part - it allowed the Soviet Union to achieve many goals, and practically pre-ordained the formation of the anti-Hitler coalition after Germany attacked the Soviet Union in June 1941.
Britain and France were so eager to come to terms with Hitler at the expense of other countries, and to encourage Nazi forces to approach the Soviet borders, that it was pointless to mark time any longer. Stalin held talks with Britain and France up to summer 1939, but they produced no results. Both countries dragged out the talks in the hope of a Soviet-German war, which would allow them to guarantee their own security.
Hitler was clearly determined to start a war against Poland, which was not likely to receive help from the West. Hitler would try to extend his influence to the Baltic countries, creating a powerful bridgehead to attack the Soviet Union. He was not to be trusted, given his goals of destroying the Slavic Russian state and colonising Eastern Europe, which were covered up by his statements about the need to put an end to Bolshevism.
The Munich conspiracy also highlighted the dangerous role of Poland, which took part in the partition of Czechoslovakia and according to Polish intelligence documents would have fought alongside Germany in the event of war with the Soviet Union.
It is enough to visit museums in Minsk to see that Soviet defences were not aimed at Germany, but to guard against Poland, which was a permanent military threat to us.
What happened to Poland is tragic. The interests of its people were trampled underfoot, but that was retribution for the actions of its foolish and opportunistic government. Stalin and other Soviet leaders believed that eliminating a military threat near the Soviet border was a smart move.
The entry of Soviet troops into eastern Poland in September 1939 was aimed at pushing the frontiers back before the start of an inevitable war, and at gaining time.
Soviet troops only moved into Western Belarus and Western Ukraine, territories that Poland had seized during the war with Russia in 1921. We withdrew from the strictly Polish regions, and exchanged them for Lithuania, traditionally part of the Russian empire.
We entered the Baltic countries because we could not be sure of their governments' friendly attitude, and we knew about German plans to invade Latvia and Lithuania.
Those who claim the Soviet Union is as much to blame for the outbreak of World War II as Nazi Germany do not have a clear conscience. Initially, Nazi-occupied Europe did not offer any resistance to Germany, and its industry worked for Hitler's army. Germany attacked us not only with its 152 divisions but also with 29 Romanian and Finnish ones.
The Soviet Union was the only force that could rout Nazism. The lightning defeat of France and British forces in 1940 bore this out. If it had not been for the Eastern Front, where we destroyed hundreds of Nazi divisions at the cost of huge losses, no US or British army would have dared enter Europe. They would have been smashed by the Germans in weeks.
Winston Churchill was right to call the British and French policy of urging Hitler to attack the Soviet Union a diplomatic blunder. He agreed that Stalin simply had no other choice.
Those who say we should condemn the pact should apologise to our war veterans and our country for their political stunts or simple stupidity. We have nothing to apologise for. The defeat of Nazi Germany created a situation where not one cannon was fired without Russia's consent, as they said after the Napoleonic War.
So we shouldn't get defensive when the pact is discussed. Politicians should act in the interests of their state and their people - otherwise they would be committing a crime.
Yuly Kvitinsky is the First Deputy Chairman of the State Duma International Relations Committee. A full version of his comments can be viewed on RIA Novosti's web site: www.en.rian.ru
 


#35941 From: stefan.wisniowski@...
Date: Fri Sep 4, 2009 4:49 pm
Subject: [FWD: Hej Fundacja Kresy-Syberja]
skwisniowski
Send Email Send Email
 
Can anyone help Jan out in his quest? Polish-speakers advisable.

Stefan Wisniowski
Sydney

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Hej Fundacja Kresy-Syberja
From: jan sobocinski <piusrs@...>
Date: Fri, September 04, 2009 6:56 pm
To: Fundacja@...

Chcialem moze od was dostac pomoc w sprawie otrzymania daty urodzenia brata mojej Babci ktory mieszkal w Zdolbunowie i w 1944 roku po wkroczeniu sowietow do Zdolbunowa zostl skazany na Gulak za przynaleznosc do AK,podobno byl dowodca na koleji w Zdolbunowie pracowal jako maszynista i rozwozil meldunki itd.
Jak napisalem do Archiwum w Lodzi ktorych adres otrzymalem w Piotrkowie Trybunalskim to chociaz do Lodzi poslalem dane urodzenia mojej babci to nie znalezli ani jej ani Franciszka brata a przyslali mi tylko rachunek do zaplacenia za 30 min ze nic nie znalezli.
Moja babcia natomias caly czas mieszkala z nami i miala dowod osobisty i jak bylo glosowanie zawsze zawiadamiali ja w PRL o wyborach.
Natomiast teraz ona nie figuruje.
Ja mieszkam od 1969 roku w szwecji i pisze opowiadanie o przejsciach mojej rodziny.Kiedy nawiazalem kontakt z Karta w 2007 zeby dostac dane o Franku Zrobku to okazalo sie ze jego syn to zrobil wczesniej ale Zdzisiek zmarl a w Karcie nic nie maja danych o pobycie w Gulagu Franka i jego syna Romana ktory zostal skazany na Gulag juz w 1941 roku a wyszedl z Sovietow z armia Andersa.
W karcie powiedzieli mnie by nawiazac z Karta w Moskwie kontakt i on chyba by znalezli dane o nich ,ale tam chce poslac ten list z data urodzenia by bylo jak najwiecej danych.
Ale w Polsce obecnie nikt nie ma abicji by szukac w Archiwach danych ludzi co zostali skazani za Stalin i Berje .Wszystkich chyba interesuje cos innego????Gdyby dalej byla PRL to chyba bym znalazl jego date urodzenia.
Pozdrawiam,moze cos mi pomozecie??
jan sobocinski


Sök efter kärleken!
Hitta din tvillingsjäl på Yahoo! Dejting: http://se.meetic.yahoo.net

#35942 From: Danuta Janina WĂłjcik <sandlily@...>
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2009 1:06 am
Subject: 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland on the 17th of September 2009
gosford27
Send Email Send Email
 

 
----- Original Message -----
To: GALICIA
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:21 PM
Subject: [GaliciaPoland-Ukraine] 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland on the 17th of September 2009

 

The Kresy-Siberia Foundation will be hosting a commemoration of the 70th anniversary of the Soviet invasion of Poland on the 17th of September 2009, in cities around the world.
 
One of those cities is Toronto and we would like to have the pleasure of your company for this event, to be held from 7:00 PM  at the Polish Combatants Hall at 206 Beverley Street, Toronto, ON M5T 1Z3  
 
We hope you accept our invitation and we all  get to meet you.
 
With regards,

Krystyna Styrna
 
www.Kresy-Siberia.org

Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

 

__________________________________________________________
Czy juĹĽ jesteĹ› w Yahoo!?
Masz dosyć spamu? Poczta Yahoo! dysponuje najlepszą ochroną przed spamem
http://pl.mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


#35943 From: Paul Havers <haverp@...>
Date: Sat Sep 5, 2009 5:03 pm
Subject: Yesterday Channel - UK only
haverp
Send Email Send Email
 
Has any one been watching the *World War 2 Behind Closed Doors*
programme on the Yesterday Channel.
Makes interesting watching as some of the information is an eye opener.

Paul

#35944 From: "mark_oyun" <mark_oyun@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 8:06 am
Subject: Re: PENNON
mark_oyun
Send Email Send Email
 
Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and
your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on.
The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops
but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he
was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many
other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured
rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the
front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge.
Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as
their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin
the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his
breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his
left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit).
If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often
also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue,
artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured
units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their
unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent
the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point
design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a
triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular
pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex
system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has
led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know
units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British
style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds
(on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches
based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications). Unit
identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The
triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour
scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a
black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the
campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There
was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version
â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but
this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia
on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with
collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit
insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very
confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually
quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very
rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white
photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom.
Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenance
companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on
top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenance
companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my
best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the
best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works
dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few
have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news
is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small.
The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not
have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up
German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the
workshop/maintenance companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski

#35945 From: "Lucyna Artymiuk" <lucyna.artymiuk@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 8:11 am
Subject: RE: Re: PENNON
lucyna_98
Send Email Send Email
 

I was wondering how it was done

 

A friend could identify at a drop of a hat

 

Lucyna

 


From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mark_oyun
Sent: Sunday, 6 September 2009 6:07 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON

 

 

Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on. The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge. Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit). If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue, artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds (on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications). Unit identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom. Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenance companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenance companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small. The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the workshop/maintenance companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski


#35946 From: Ed Bachorz <etbachorz@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 11:45 am
Subject: Re: Re: PENNON
etbachorz
Send Email Send Email
 
Many thanks for your most welcome and descriptive reply.
I am asking my brother to take photos of all of the
insignia/badges on my father's uniform...will share more
when I get them...thanks,
Edward

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, mark_oyun <mark_oyun@...> wrote:

From: mark_oyun <mark_oyun@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 8:06 AM

 

Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on. The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge. Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit). If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue, artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds (on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications) . Unit identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom. Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenanc e companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenanc e companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small. The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the workshop/maintenanc e companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski



#35947 From: Ed Bachorz <etbachorz@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 12:15 pm
Subject: INTERESTING VIDEO
etbachorz
Send Email Send Email
 
This is a very interesting video...
It is 4:29 long...
At 1:13 of the video, look at the soldier saluting...
The pennon on his uniform is similar to my father's...
As you say, however, in black & white, identifying
them is diffucult...
Here is the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4TuPa_PU2g&feature=related
Thank you...Edward Bachorz

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, mark_oyun <mark_oyun@...> wrote:

From: mark_oyun <mark_oyun@...>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 8:06 AM

 

Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on. The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge. Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit). If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue, artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds (on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications) . Unit identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom. Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenanc e companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenanc e companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small. The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the workshop/maintenanc e companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski



#35948 From: "Elizabeth Olsson" <elzunia@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 3:26 pm
Subject: RE: Re: PENNON
elzuniao
Send Email Send Email
 

Attached are pennants used by 5 KDP. Sorry they are not too good, I took photos from a book (no scanner available) but I think you can read the texts.

Once you can see the colours on your father’s uniform you should be able to work this out.

 

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
AlingsĂĄs, Sweden
Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
Army: Pestki 316 Transport.
Sappers 5KDP.

 


From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Bachorz
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 1:45 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON

 

 

Many thanks for your most welcome and descriptive reply.
I am asking my brother to take photos of all of the
insignia/badges on my father's uniform...will share more
when I get them...thanks,
Edward

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, mark_oyun <mark_oyun@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: mark_oyun <mark_oyun@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 8:06 AM

 

Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on. The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge. Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit). If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue, artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds (on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications) . Unit identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom. Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenanc e companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenanc e companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small. The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the workshop/maintenanc e companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski

 


4 of 4 Photo(s)


#35949 From: "Zbigiew Bob Styrna" <styrna@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 4:12 pm
Subject: Apocolyps: Second World War
b_styrna
Send Email Send Email
 

Right now, I’m just this “Apocalypse: Second World War”, on TV on Shaw Cable in Vancouver, Canada.  A 6 part series on WWII.   It is odd, but this WWII documentary is not shown on The History Channel #44 like all others, it is on the Geography channel # 93.

 

 

This particular episode happens to be regarding the German Army in 1941 fighting, etc in the Kresy region.

 

Seems every time is see a new documentary, I learn new stuff.

 

This 1 hour segment shows many color film clips showing Ukrainians (women mainly) celebrating , marching down city streets with the Hitler salute, and joining the German Nazis.

 

 Also color film with German Soldiers and Ukrainians executing Jews in my pre WWII relative’s city of Złoczów, in Tarnopol Województwo. (Zolociv – Ukranian )

 

Another weird thing was to see color footage of Frenchmen in German Werhmark uniforms.  French flag on shoulder/arm patch. Seems a lot of Frenchmen joined the German army after they were invaded back in 1940.

 

I think there will be a  lot more information in 5 more 1 hour segments.

 

 

Zbigniew

 


#35950 From: Danuta Janina WĂłjcik <sandlily@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 4:23 pm
Subject: Re: INTERESTING VIDEO
gosford27
Send Email Send Email
 

Witaj Edward,
 
I looked at the video again.  I believe the pennon is the ancient - Hussar -  Land Forces pennon.  Red on the top and white at the bottom. It was used during WWII by Polish Land Forces.
 
 
milego dnia,
Danuta
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Bachorz
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:15 AM
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] INTERESTING VIDEO

 

This is a very interesting video...
It is 4:29 long...
At 1:13 of the video, look at the soldier saluting...
The pennon on his uniform is similar to my father's...
As you say, however, in black & white, identifying
them is diffucult...
Here is the video link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4TuPa_PU2g&feature=related
Thank you...Edward Bachorz

--- On Sun, 9/6/09, mark_oyun <mark_oyun@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: mark_oyun <mark_oyun@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: PENNON
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, September 6, 2009, 8:06 AM

 

Unit recognition from old photos is an interesting (albeit geeky)hobby â€" and your father's picture is a tough one - simply as it doesn't give much to go on. The triangulur collar pennon, at first glance would usually mean armoured troops but the 5th Kresowa INFANTRY arm path would seem to contradict that. And if he was infantry why doesn't have the same style if insignia that we see on so many other pictures? Please indulge my small essay on Polish Army insignia:

In 1939, to indicate what soldiers did, most of the Polish Army wore coloured rectangular patches on their tunic. They had the traditional zig-zag on the front and bottom and a coloured strip of piping along the back edge. Traditionally the infantry has always worn blue patches with yellow piping as their arm-of-service colours. For reference the other arms were:

Generals: Dark blue - crimson
Infantry: Dark blue - yellow
Frontier Defence Corps: Dark blue â€" dark green
Rifle Battalions: Dark blue â€" dark green
Field Artillery: Dark Green - black
Medium Artillery: Dark Green - scarlet
Heavy Artillery: Dark green â€" raspberry red
Survey Artillery: Dark Green - white
Anti-Aircraft Artillery: Dark Green - yellow
Engineers: Black - scarlet
Railway Engineers: Black â€" cherry red
Ordnance: Emerald green - black
Signals: Black â€" cornflower blue
Military Police: Scarlet â€" light yellow
Legal Service: Raspberry red - black
Geographical Service: Black - white
Commissaries: Black - scarlet
Administrative Services: Royal blue â€" cherry red
Chaplains: Violet â€" no piping.
Doctors: Cherry red â€" dark blue
Pharmacists: Cherry red â€" cornflower blue
Dentists: Cherry red â€" light blue
Vetinaries: Cherry red â€" dark green

None of this told you which unit the soldier was with, just simply what he didin the army. If you wanted to know the actual unit you would have to look at his breast badge. Each unit had a metal/metal and enamel badge that he wore on his left breast (often given out to commemorate one years service with that unit). If you look at the badges of the time you will see that the colour theme often also reflects the arm of service colour. Infantry badges are often blue, artillery are green, engineers are red, signals are light blue and armoured units are orange (more about that presently).

Mounted units were not included in the above scheme. Cavalry would wear their unit pennons on their collars next to the zig-zag. These pennons would represent the pennons they also carried on their lance. They had the familiar two point design which I’m sure we are familiar with.

There was only one arm of service in the Polish Army of 1939 that wore a triangular patch â€" armoured units. They used a black and orange triangular pennon with the black on top.

The Polish Armed Forces in the West used a similar but slightly more complex system of identification which was a mix of British and Polish styles that has led to difficulty for researchers to identify soldiers from the lesser know units. Firstly the arm of service patch was kept but redesigned to fit British style battle dress. Infantry would wear a blue pentagon (on jackets) or diamonds (on battle dress) with yellow piping in the top. Other arms would wear patches based on the old 1939 colours (although there were some modifications) . Unit identification came down to shoulder patches as in the British Army. The triangular patch was originally kept exclusively for armour with the same colour scheme as 1939, but was also extended to motorized artillery which was given a black and dark green triangular pennon. This situation continued until the campaign in Italy where things got a little chaotic.

There seemed to have been as explosion of badges and insignia in Italy. There was a plan to replace the Polish arm-of-service patch with the British version â€" a thin multi coloured strip worn under the unit badge on the left arm, but this never really caught on. What did catch on was the wearing of unit insignia on the beret (or painted directly on the helmet). This was also accompanied with collar insignia replacing arm-or-service insignia… or sometimes the unit insignia was worn directly on the arm of service patch. It is all very confusing.

Coming back to the matter in hand â€" the triangular collar patch is actually quite rare in 2 Polcorps in Italy… and more so in the 5th Kresowa. It is very rare to see picture of troops wearing a triangular pennon. Black and white photos can only help us with shade â€" dark on top; light on the bottom. Anti-aircraft artillery, artillery supply companies and workshop/maintenanc e companies all wore triangles; the artillery based units had the light colour on top (variations of orange/red over dark green)… the workshop/maintenanc e companies wore black and orange with the black on top and it is here that my best guess lies and here where I think you should be looking. There is, to the best of my knowledge, no definitive reference for this subject. Most works dealing with insignia only deal with the major front line units and very few have the space or the inclination to add all of the support units.The good news is that the number of troops in this area would have been comparatively small. The bad news: there were a lot of small specialized units whose records may not have been well preserved. Fixing Polish tanks is not as glamourous as blowing up German ones, even if it was just as important to the greater effort.

So that's my non-conclusive conclusion. It could be the pennon of one of the workshop/maintenanc e companies of the 5th Kresowa Inf. Div.

Best regards, Mark Ostrowski



#35951 From: "Elizabeth Olsson" <elzunia@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 4:35 pm
Subject: Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot
elzuniao
Send Email Send Email
 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6103814/Westerplatte-Gdansk-On-the-spot.html

About half way through this film you can see my mother, the only woman in uniform, representing the women’s army in Polish II Corps.

There is a discussion on this page as to “who started the war….” – maybe some of our historical experts could join this discussion.

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
AlingsĂĄs, Sweden
Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
Army: Pestki 316 Transport.
Sappers 5KDP.

 

 


#35952 From: "Zbigiew Bob Styrna" <styrna@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 5:27 pm
Subject: RE: Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot
b_styrna
Send Email Send Email
 

Elzunia,

 

That is a good one !!!  Who started the war eh ? J  Ha, ha ,  I’m actually rolling on the floor and laughing.

OK, let me see:

 

I’m not an expert, but I think it was millions of german soldiers ( with guns,  some of them Big Guns, tanks , airplanes with lots of bullets and bombs) that crossed the Polish border from germany on to Polish soil in Sept 1, 1939 and were shooting/killing many people, civilians and Polish military. And also, I think it was Millions of russian soldiers that forcibly came from russia (with guns also) , and forcibly invaded Poland by crossing the Polish eastern border  and onto Polish soil and also were killing Polish citizens.  I don’t believe we gave an invitation to any of these armed bandits to come into our country !!

 

The simple fact is that no Polish troops ever crossed their own Polish borders and forcibly entered either eastward into Russian soil or westward into German soil.  They all came to us, and we did not go to them.  As a matter of fact, I think we asked them, and politely, not to come over to see us.  They were  “ un-invited guests” !

 

 

I mean all this nonsense that we hear now, all this dancing around by the Russians, is just that, dancing.  Like a giant fish, they are trying to wiggle off the hook that is stuck deep in their throat.  It is like a criminal that gets caught red handed with the stolen loot tries to tell a ferry tale how he/she happens to have stolen goods in hand.

 

 

I personally don’t care anything about some fairy tale that these modern day russians are trying to fabricate.

 

russia and germany started the WWII.

 

 

 

 

Zbigniew

 

 

 


From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Olsson
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:36 AM
To: 2 Kresy-Siberia
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6103814/Westerplatte-Gdansk-On-the-spot.html

About half way through this film you can see my mother, the only woman in uniform, representing the women’s army in Polish II Corps.

There is a discussion on this page as to “who started the war….” – maybe some of our historical experts could join this discussion.

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
AlingsĂĄs, Sweden
Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
Army: Pestki 316 Transport.
Sappers 5KDP.

_


#35953 From: "Elizabeth Olsson" <elzunia@...>
Date: Sun Sep 6, 2009 5:41 pm
Subject: RE: Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot
elzuniao
Send Email Send Email
 

It’s not me you need to convince Zbyszek! But people out in the world are saying other things, that’s why I suggested our members join the discussion on the Telegraph website.

 

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
AlingsĂĄs, Sweden
Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
Army: Pestki 316 Transport.
Sappers 5KDP.

 


From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Zbigiew Bob Styrna
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 7:27 PM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot

 

 

Elzunia,

 That is a good one !!!  Who started the war eh ? J  Ha, ha ,  I’m actually rolling on the floor and laughing.

OK, let me see:

 I’m not an expert, but I think it was millions of german soldiers ( with guns,  some of them Big Guns, tanks , airplanes with lots of bullets and bombs) that crossed the Polish border from germany on to Polish soil in Sept 1, 1939 and were shooting/killing many people, civilians and Polish military. And also, I think it was Millions of russian soldiers that forcibly came from russia (with guns also) , and forcibly invaded Poland by crossing the Polish eastern border  and onto Polish soil and also were killing Polish citizens.  I don’t believe we gave an invitation to any of these armed bandits to come into our country !!

The simple fact is that no Polish troops ever crossed their own Polish borders and forcibly entered either eastward into Russian soil or westward into German soil.  They all came to us, and we did not go to them.  As a matter of fact, I think we asked them, and politely, not to come over to see us.  They were  â€ś un-invited guests” !

 I mean all this nonsense that we hear now, all this dancing around by the Russians, is just that, dancing.  Like a giant fish, they are trying to wiggle off the hook that is stuck deep in their throat.  It is like a criminal that gets caught red handed with the stolen loot tries to tell a ferry tale how he/she happens to have stolen goods in hand.

I personally don’t care anything about some fairy tale that these modern day russians are trying to fabricate.

 russia and germany started the WWII.

Zbigniew

 


From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Elizabeth Olsson
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 9:36 AM
To: 2 Kresy-Siberia
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Westerplatte, Gdansk: On the spot

 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/6103814/Westerplatte-Gdansk-On-the-spot.html

About half way through this film you can see my mother, the only woman in uniform, representing the women’s army in Polish II Corps.

There is a discussion on this page as to “who started the war….” – maybe some of our historical experts could join this discussion.

pozdrowienia
Elzunia Gradosielska Olsson
AlingsĂĄs, Sweden
Names: Maczka. Gradosielski.
Kresy: Osada Krechowiecka. Wilno.
Siberia: Monastyriok. Siewzeldorlag, Komi.
Army: Pestki 316 Transport.
Sappers 5KDP.

_


Messages 35924 - 35953 of 56811   Oldest  |  < Older  |  Newer >  |  Newest
Add to My Yahoo!      XML What's This?

Copyright © 2010 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines NEW - Help