From: "eunice_ashford" <eunice_ashford@...>

Dear Jakub

Whilst searching the web for any information about my father's family
I came across your enquiry for information about Mieczslaw Korba.
My dad is called Mieczslaw, and he came to Britain after the war. I
know he had a brother that settled in Argentina after the war, but
can't remember his name, although I know that the brothers' had a
sister called Kazimira (? spelling)and they came from a town called
Sassow near Tarnopol which is now in the Ukraine. Is this information
any use to you?

Yours sincerely  Eunice Ashford (nee Korba)


--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "jakub_mlotkowski"
<jakub_mlotkowski@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> if you can remeber, i was searching the brothers of my grandmother.
> Today i found out what happened with Wladyslaw, he was the older
one.
> I called an Polish veteran organisation in Argentina and they gave
me
> a number of a person who knowed Wladyslaw, he was his best friend.
>
> He told me that Wladyslaw was an real man and his only one real
friend.
> Wladyslaw died with 64 years in the early 90`s in Buenos Aries. He
had
> no family and he never could manage his life because he was mentally
> broken and he never could accept what happened to him and his family
> during the war.
>
> As I asked the person if he knows anything about Wladyslaw`s brother
> Mieczyslaw, he denied. He told me that they seldom talked about
their
> familys or about the war because they just wanted to forget
everything.
> He sad that Mieczyslaw probally died during the war, but he is not
sure.
>
> Now i have to find out what happened to Mieczyslaw.
> What about the British Army? Can they help me? Both of them fought
in
> the Polish 2 Korp in the Britisch Army, maybe they can tell me if
> Mieczyslaw died during the war or not. Or is there any Polish
veteran
> organisation in Britain?
> Please help me!
>
> Jakob

Dear All,

I came back from a holiday in Krakow on Tuesday.  I found it the
most amazing place I have ever visited and can't wait to go back.
The tours were a bit pricey but we visited Czestochowa, Wieliczka,
Auschwitz/Birkenau, Zakopana and we also had a walking tour of
Krakow   The weather was very warm but we did have some rain which
quickly cleared up.

We spent our evenings in Rynek Glowny and were spolit for choice
where to eat. On the first evening we found a lovely restaurant away
from the main square called "Pod Kominkiem" in ul. Bracka 13. It is
reached by a long flight of stairs down into what looks like a
cellar.  The young man who served us was subjected to my limited
Polish.  He didn't laugh and was very encouraging. In recent years I
have had very little opportunity to speak Polish and I was a bit
nervous in case I was laughed at. I felt I did really well and one
of the tour guides said I had a 'cute' accent. We spent our last
evening here as well. We sampled other restaurants and all were
excellent and fantastic value for money. I am now on a diet until
Christmas - too much Bigos, Pierogi etc.

Our first day was spent wandering around the Old Town and
discovering the many treasures in the Cloth Hall. I couldn't resist
buying some amber. It was so hot that a water tanker was being used
to spray the roads to stop the tarmac from melting.  We spent time
walking in the Planty which nicely separated the Old Town from the
rest.

On our second day we went on a walking tour of Krakow and saw the
Kazimierz District, Wawel Castle, and the Church of St Mary.  How
any of this has survived through so many invasions is beyond belief.
Our tour guide introduced us to a couple of legends associated with
Krakow. I knew about the interrupted trumpet call but I didn't know
about the dragon.

Czestochowa was our second excursion, this time in a mini bus.  We
shared our visit with Erik, from Holland and Marius, our driver. One
of the nuns acted as our guide at the monastery. I knew the legend
of the Black Madonna. Once again I can't believe how this place has
survived! My only complaint was that we couldn't spend more time
here.

Our next trip took us further afield to Zakopane and the Tatra
Mountains. This was another enjoyable day even though I was caught
in a thunderstorm and got very wet.  Yes we had brought umbrellas
but they were safely stored in our luggage at the hotel! The view
from the top was fantastic and I would love to come back in winter.

Auschwitz/Birkenau was next on the list.  I had been advised not to
leave this until the last day and I was grateful that I hadn't. It
was heartbreaking to see the pictures of the prisoners on the wall.
The Nazis kept records, at first, of the mostly Polish prisoners but
later on they didn't bother and people disappeared without trace.
How did the Nazis feel when they separated the families knowing that
some would go immediately to gas chambers and the rest would be kept
in such awful conditions only to die within weeks of arriving? Did
they feel anything at all?

Our last day was spent in The Wieliczka Salt Mines, another
fantastic place.  I don't like enclosed spaces and it didn't help to
have my son muttering things like 'Just imagine how much rock is
above us' After a long series of wooden steps we finally reached the
tourist level and started our journey through the many passages and
caverns. The place is filled with carvings made from the salt and
all have been made by the miners in their spare time.  All fantastic
and again I wished that we had more time to spend.  All too quickly
the visit was over and we were heading for the lifts to take us back
to the surface.

This was my first visit to Poland, and to an area where my father
once lived.  Now I know where I come from, I feel like an adopted
child discovering her birth parents. I had always wondered why my
parents settled in York, away from any Polish community.  But now,
having seen Krakow and the views from the Vistula I think I know.
York is built between two rivers, it has a castle and a cathedral
and many other historical buildings. Both cities feel very similar!

Finally, thank you to Stefan for setting up this site and to all of
you.  If I hadn't discovered the Kresy-Siberia site I would not have
contemplated this journey.  Perhaps one day I can make a similar
journey to the area near Lwow,where my mother from.

All the best
Val (Oldham,UK)

Hi Dziadzius -

I don't think the bagpipes were only played by Gorale. When I
learned this, I was talking the mid-18th century time period. We
were discussing which instruments would have been played at the
time. I have an ancestor who lived then who was an organist. This
was in the Bochnia area--no mountains there as far as I know!

Eve

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Wit Bogma <witbogma@...> wrote:
>
> Just for fun.. Bagpipes used by Polish Gorale is called DUDY or
Koza or GAJDA...the last has its link to Turkey as GHAIDA and to
Spain as GAITA. In literature there are descriptions that Tartars had
a musical instrument known as PISZCZALKI meaning a squeaky thing and
it was assumed that these were sort of a penny whistle but on closer
look it might have been bagpipes. There is an error in that some
people call bagpipes in Polish as KOBZA...Kobza is an Ukrainian/Greek
string instrument. Word GORALE comes to us from Far East and denotes
a mountain goat later described as nemorhaedus. So how Polish are
bagpipes?? or even GORALE? Have fun Dziadzius
>
> Eve <Eve5J@...> wrote:
> Hi Martin and Group -
>
> Believe it or not, bagpipes were in Poland in ancient times! I
learned
> this years ago and questioned it, and it was true! Ha, ha! I don't
> know where these were first used. I would assume Scotland, but it's
> very weird, so if your father said bagpipes were Polish, he wasn't
> wrong!
>
> Yes, you are entirely right. "Divide and conquer" is the key phrase
of
> many of the powerful still to this day. It was definitely how the
two
> totalitarian regime dividers of Poland in World War II operated, and
> still again by Communist Russia in Poland after the war. It is so
> important for everyone to keep this in mind.
>
> Propaganda and misinformation is a powerful force and a very scary
tool
> of both oppressors and "democracies" everywhere. It is still with us
> all in spades, so be wary.
>
> Regards,
>
> Eve
>
> --- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, "martin stepek" <mstepek@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I loved what Lucyna wrote about Poles and Jews thinking that
certain
> customs
> > and practices were 'Polish' or 'Jewish', and were then surprised
to
> find
> > that the other group assumed these ways were unique to their
culture.
> It
> > made me laugh as I remembered my father's countless sentences
which
> began
> > with some cultural, historical, artistic, scientific or any other
> subject
> > matter followed by the words 'was Polish' or 'started in Poland'
or
> > something similar. My brothers and sisters I used to joke about it
> because
> > it was such a common refrain: we'd say 'oh golf was originated in
> Poland'
> > 'so were skis' 'oh and south American pan pipes' etc etc etc.
> > My guess is that transmigrations through Europe and beyond was so
> common in
> > history that many races and tribes shared and copied each other,
so
> that for
> > example, bagpipes, which the Scots claim for themselves, are as
common
> in
> > Brittany and Galicia (the Spanish not the Polish Galicia ... and
isn't
> that
> > another example, apparently related to Gaul and Pays de Galles -
> French for
> > Wales - all stemming from the same root word) and bagpipes are
known
> in
> > other cultures in Asia.
> > So if all this cross-fertilisation of cultures is so prevalent
across
> the
> > Indo-European trade and migration routes, then several centuries
of
> > Jewish-Polish living together in Poland must have led to a huge
amount
> of
> > sharing and merging of practices, like dance, music, cuisine.
> > I think this bonding must also be remembered, as much as the
painful
> sides
> > of the relationships.
> >
> > There is a danger in obsession with the past, especially past
faults
> and
> > wrongs. It seems to lead more often to further estrangment and
> bitterness -
> > things this troubled world hardly needs more of - rather than
> reconciliation
> > and togetherness - things this world desperately needs. The reason
> > Yugoslavia engulfed itself was because one man resurrected past
wrongs
> and
> > glories and placed them at the top of the national agenda and
> reignited what
> > was dormant. There are hundreds of similar national grievances
against
> > neighbours around the globe. Current events in Iraq, Afghanistan,
> Israel,
> > Lebanon and the West Bank are perfect examples, and I say that
without
> > making any judgement on the rights and wrongs of decisions there.
The
> point
> > is unless you agree to end the historical hatred - without
conditions
> - and
> > genuinely move to create a shared peaceful and prosperous future
the
> demon
> > of past grievances always lurks ready to strike when the next
> inevitable
> > crisis hits. This is why the European Union for all its many
faults,
> is such
> > a Godsend for peace and prosperity.
> >
> > I liked South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation process, even if
it
> was
> > unable to achieve all it set out to do. The problems we as a group
> have, as
> > I see it, is that we are just having a random set of exchanges of
> views with
> > 'facts' thrown in, with no sense of process, and no pre-agreed
method
> of
> > assessing fact from uncorroborated 'view' or anecdote. It's
probably
> way
> > beyond the scope of our group, and anyone's 'free' time to try to
> create
> > such structured approaches, but frankly without them we'll
generate
> more
> > heat than light, and the heat is getting very uncomfortable for
me,
> because
> > the heated discussions reflect exactly the same polarised
positions in
> > Germany and Russia that led to the Holocaust and the sufferings
of our
> > parents and grandparents in the first place. We are fools to fall
into
> the
> > same mindset. It's not just Poles and Jews, its Poles, Jews
> Ukrainians,
> > Germans, Russians, Lithuanians, Roma, Belarussians, etc etc and
every
> > combination of these groups who could bring accusation and
> > counter-accusation. It would never cease and there'd be no getting
> away from
> > it all. Meanwhile a peaceful and happy life is what we mot want,
and
> it
> > doesn't require past pains to be exhumed and extinguished.
> >
> > Martin Stepek
> > Hamilton
> > Scotland

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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http://mail.yahoo.com

WAIT A MINUTE DZIADZIUS!

My wife is a Goralka... so, what you are saying is that after all
these years of marriage, she really isn't Polish!? I better go have
a chat with her. You know, I always knew she had me fooled, but,
what will I tell the kids?

Thanks for the fun post Dziadzius!

z kolezenskim pozdrowieniem,

John Ferenc
SPK London Canada

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, Wit Bogma <witbogma@...> wrote:
>
> Just for fun.. Bagpipes used by Polish Gorale is called DUDY or
Koza or GAJDA...the last has its link to Turkey as GHAIDA and to
Spain as GAITA. In literature there are descriptions that Tartars
had a musical instrument known as PISZCZALKI meaning a squeaky thing
and it was assumed that these were sort of a penny whistle but on
closer look it might have been bagpipes. There is an error in that
some people call bagpipes in Polish as KOBZA...Kobza is an
Ukrainian/Greek string instrument. Word GORALE comes to us from Far
East and denotes a mountain goat later described as nemorhaedus. So
how Polish are bagpipes?? or even GORALE? Have fun Dziadzius
>

Dear All,

I came back from a holiday in Krakow on Tuesday. I found it the
most amazing place I have ever visited and can't wait to go back.
The tours were a bit pricey but we visited Czestochowa, Wieliczka,
Auschwitz/Birkenau, Zakopana and we also had a walking tour of
Krakow The weather was very warm but we did have some rain which
quickly cleared up.

We spent our evenings in Rynek Glowny and were spolit for choice
where to eat. On the first evening we found a lovely restaurant away
from the main square called "Pod Kominkiem" in ul. Bracka 13. It is
reached by a long flight of stairs down into what looks like a
cellar. The young man who served us was subjected to my limited
Polish. He didn't laugh and was very encouraging. In recent years I
have had very little opportunity to speak Polish and I was a bit
nervous in case I was laughed at. I felt I did really well and one
of the tour guides said I had a 'cute' accent. We spent our last
evening here as well. We sampled other restaurants and all were
excellent and fantastic value for money. I am now on a diet until
Christmas - too much Bigos, Pierogi etc.

Our first day was spent wandering around the Old Town and
discovering the many treasures in the Cloth Hall. I couldn't resist
buying some amber. It was so hot that a water tanker was being used
to spray the roads to stop the tarmac from melting. We spent time
walking in the Planty which nicely separated the Old Town from the
rest.

On our second day we went on a walking tour of Krakow and saw the
Kazimierz District, Wawel Castle, and the Church of St Mary. How
any of this has survived through so many invasions is beyond belief.
Our tour guide introduced us to a couple of legends associated with
Krakow. I knew about the interrupted trumpet call but I didn't know
about the dragon.

Czestochowa was our second excursion, this time in a mini bus. We
shared our visit with Erik, from Holland and Marius, our driver. One
of the nuns acted as our guide at the monastery. I knew the legend
of the Black Madonna. Once again I can't believe how this place has
survived! My only complaint was that we couldn't spend more time
here.

Our next trip took us further afield to Zakopane and the Tatra
Mountains. This was another enjoyable day even though I was caught
in a thunderstorm and got very wet. Yes we had brought umbrellas
but they were safely stored in our luggage at the hotel! The view
from the top was fantastic and I would love to come back in winter.

Auschwitz/Birkenau was next on the list. I had been advised not to
leave this until the last day and I was grateful that I hadn't. It
was heartbreaking to see the pictures of the prisoners on the wall.
The Nazis kept records, at first, of the mostly Polish prisoners but
later on they didn't bother and people disappeared without trace.
How did the Nazis feel when they separated the families knowing that
some would go immediately to gas chambers and the rest would be kept
in such awful conditions only to die within weeks of arriving? Did
they feel anything at all?

Our last day was spent in The Wieliczka Salt Mines, another
fantastic place. I don't like enclosed spaces and it didn't help to
have my son muttering things like 'Just imagine how much rock is
above us' After a long series of wooden steps we finally reached the
tourist level and started our journey through the many passages and
caverns. The place is filled with carvings made from the salt and
all have been made by the miners in their spare time. All fantastic
and again I wished that we had more time to spend. All too quickly
the visit was over and we were heading for the lifts to take us back
to the surface.

This was my first visit to Poland, and to an area where my father
once lived. Now I know where I come from, I feel like an adopted
child discovering her birth parents. I had always wondered why my
parents settled in York, away from any Polish community. But now,
having seen Krakow and the views from the Vistula I think I know.
York is built between two rivers, it has a castle and a cathedral
and many other historical buildings. Both cities feel very similar!

Finally, thank you to Stefan for setting up this site and to all of
you. If I hadn't discovered the Kresy-Siberia site I would not have
contemplated this journey. Perhaps one day I can make a similar
journey to the area near Lwow,where my mother from.

All the best
Val (Oldham,UK)

Dziadzius wrote: I am Polish not because I was born in Wolyn but because I
chose to be Polish in my mind and heart.

Yes, in one or way or another this is what we all do. Humans seem to
naturally want to be part of a group, even beyond their immediate family,
friends and neighbours. And that's fine. Wonderful diversity of language,
arts, culture, society have been the result and many of us are fortunate
enough to live in an age where we can visit all the product of centuries of
creativity by these different peoples.

Where it goes sour - to return to our discussion of Poles-Jews - is when
that pride in belonging to a group excludes other humans' - and I would add
animals' - right to similar opportunities to live and thrive, and when it
moves towards viewing our own group as superior and others as inferior.

On a related point why do we not have similarly tortuous dialogues about
Polish-Ukrainian, Jewish-Ukrainian, and Jewish-Lithuanian mutual grievances,
as these are all relevant to Kresy and indeed many would state that the
scale and degree of cruelty and suffering was significantly greater than
Polish-Jewish hurts, though equally the quality of compassion and
selflessness was strong between people in these groups.

Martin Stepek
Hamilton
Scotland

_________________________________________________________________
The new Windows Live Toolbar helps you guard against viruses
http://toolbar.live.com/?mkt=en-gb

Dear All

For the last five years I have been making some attempts to discover
any information on my Father's family, of which he has heard nothing
for a lifetime. It is my habit to type  the name "Korba" into any
search box, and mostly nothing helpful turns up.
Imagine my delight and suprise on Thursday evening when I came across
the Kresy-Siberia group, typed Korba into the search space, and a
message came up from someone called Jakub Mlotkowski, and it turns out
he is searching ,on behalf of his Grandmother, for my Dad,Mieczyslaw
Korba, who is a little frail these days, but very much alive.
I immediately e-mailed Jakub,But it appears that his account is no
longer operating. I also noticed that he has not been in contact with
the group for about 18 months, I hope he has not given up the search.
Does anyone out there have any information on how I can contact Jakub?
So near and yet so far.
Thanks,
    Eunice Ashford

----- Original Message -----

...On a related point why do we not have similarly tortuous dialogues about Polish-Ukrainian, Jewish-Ukrainian, and Jewish-Lithuanian mutual grievances, as these are all relevant to Kresy and indeed many would state that the scale and degree of cruelty and suffering was significantly greater than Polish-Jewish hurts, though equally the quality of compassion and selflessness was strong between people in these groups.

Martin Stepek
Hamilton
Scotland

.

Thanks Stefan

I was not for a moment requesting that we expand the pain to every other
Kresy-based relationship issue :-) I don't think I could take simultaneous
multiple grievance dialogues!! (Sounds like a medical condition and probably
is.)

"Learning, understanding and reconcilitation", yep, that'll do for me.

Speaking of learning, does anyone have any idea on the numbers of Kresy
deported Polish citizens who still live in the ex-Soviet Union, or the
number of their children? My understanding is that many were not allowed to
leave, including a group from the osada my father was born in, who stayed in
either Uzbekistand or Kazakhstan until 1956 when they were allowed to leave
and be reunited with family members who got out with Anders. There must have
been others who did not leave. I think that is a fascinating area for
research, the Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Lithuanains and Belarussians of Kresy
who did not die but stayed and raised children in the Soviet Union. My
father said there were many Polish and Ukrainian descendents of 19th century
deportees  in the Kotlas region when he was sent there.

Warmest wishes,
Martin


>From: "Stefan Wisniowski (Phoenix)" <swisniowski@...>
>Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Other discussion forums
>Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 11:07:59 +1000
>
>Hi Martin
>
>It is likely because of the membership of this group. There are other
>discussion forums with "tortuous dialogues about Polish-Ukrainian,
>Jewish-Ukrainian, and Jewish-Lithuanian mutual grievances." I do not
>propose to refer you to them, however, and I humbly request that we not try
>to replicate them here unless it is to replace them with a spirit of shared
>learning, understanding and reconciliation.
>
>I remind members that the purpose of this group is "researching,
>remembering and recognising the Polish citizens deported, enslaved and
>killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
>
>Regards
>Stefan Wisniowski
>MODERATOR
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   ...On a related point why do we not have similarly tortuous dialogues
>about Polish-Ukrainian, Jewish-Ukrainian, and Jewish-Lithuanian mutual
>grievances, as these are all relevant to Kresy and indeed many would state
>that the scale and degree of cruelty and suffering was significantly
>greater than Polish-Jewish hurts, though equally the quality of compassion
>and selflessness was strong between people in these groups.
>
>   Martin Stepek
>   Hamilton
>   Scotland
>   .
>

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free!
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What an appaling and short-sighted idea.
It is short-sighted because in fact the potential of tourism from people
like us and millions of others who would go to these outlying places for
personal reasons  is huge in the long-term, and a sensitive and constructive
tourist industry could be built around it.

But I don't think many would want to go to a gruesome combination of reality
tv meets a Disney-style gulag!

Martin

>From: "Julian Plowy" <julian_plowy@...>
>Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Gulags
>Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 21:44:52 -0700
>
>To All
>
>
>
>A new Gulag tourist trap is being considered. See info on link below
>
>
>
>http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/2508/
>
>
>
>Julek
>
>PO BOX 3099
>
>San Bernardino, CA 92413
>
>   _____
>

_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free!
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb

Are they really considering doing that? I'm never surprised at the extent to
which human insensitivity can go.
Personally, I believe we should be educated on what Gulags were and what people
suffered in those dark years... many of the people I meet are grossly ignorant
of it. But a tourist resort for 'extreme lovers'? I can only laugh at these
people.
Holly



---------- Initial Header -----------

From      : Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
To          : Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Cc          :
Date      : Sun, 06 Aug 2006 07:06:39 +0000
Subject : RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Gulags







> What an appaling and short-sighted idea.
> It is short-sighted because in fact the potential of tourism from people
> like us and millions of others who would go to these outlying places for
> personal reasons  is huge in the long-term, and a sensitive and constructive
> tourist industry could be built around it.
>
> But I don't think many would want to go to a gruesome combination of reality
> tv meets a Disney-style gulag!
>
> Martin
>
> >From: "Julian Plowy" <julian_plowy@...>
> >Reply-To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Gulags
> >Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2006 21:44:52 -0700
> >
> >To All
> >
> >
> >
> >A new Gulag tourist trap is being considered. See info on link below
> >
> >
> >
> >http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/2508/
> >
> >
> >
> >Julek
> >
> >PO BOX 3099
> >
> >San Bernardino, CA 92413
> >
> >   _____
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Windows Live™ Messenger has arrived. Click here to download it for free!
> http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/?locale=en-gb
>
>
>
> Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org
>
> ****************************************************************************
>  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
>  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
>  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
> ****************************************************************************
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>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Kaczanowski
Sent: Aug 5, 2006 10:11 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Polski sercy byje

Dziadzius wrote "I am Polish not because I was born in Wolyn but because I chose to be Polish in my mind and heart.

 

I wasn't born in Poland but somehow always felt very Polish. Isn't there a saying

" W srodku Polski sercy byje"...Inside beats a Polish heart.  that would be me I guess.

 

hania

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-----Original Message-----
From: ANTONI KAZIMIERSKI
Sent: Aug 6, 2006 11:23 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re : Poles in Kotlas region

Martin,

As far as I am avare, there are many Poles , Belarussians, Jews, Ukrainians and others from the Baltic States,who settled ( not from their choice) in that area of Kotlas. They were there from the pre-first World War and have an association and community to this day.It was enlarged by Poles from the later deportations. I am not sure if your relative was in Yagodnoye-or someone elses from our group. Their stories are told on internet by several members-sadly not all that pleasant- and if a tour were to visit them- no mater from which country, and to speak to them they would welcome them with open arms.

Kotlas was not a severe sort of restriction, but the locality was sufficient for you not to escape-as some sugested-remoteness and harshness generally.

Today, the Limenda undertaking is one of the largest in the world, as it provides nearly 20% of Russia's needs and exports worlwide; timber and various timber products.

Poles and their descendants earlier on and now, are part of that project.

To learn more please contact:

www.kotlas.org/kotlas/history/zybert.html  or read stories of Poles at www.wvtl.net/kotlas/history/exile.htm

There are others to choose from as well as learn of their life.

antoni530

Hi, Ania and others,

 

I am sort of baffled in translation;; which is it? ( I hope I am not pedantic) 'Polski, serce byje? ( it should be bije) or 'w srodku Polski serce bije!'; or 'Serce Polski bije?'- where?

perhaps my Polish is a little different.

antoni 530

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Kaczanowski <annekaczanowski@...>
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2006 13:29:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: Polski, serce byje?

Perhaps my Polish isn't as good. That's why I translated in English so it would be understood.

 

hania

ANTONI KAZIMIERSKI <askazimierski@ btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi, Ania and others,

 

I am sort of baffled in translation;; which is it? ( I hope I am not pedantic) 'Polski, serce byje? ( it should be bije) or 'w srodku Polski serce bije!'; or 'Serce Polski bije?'- where?

perhaps my Polish is a little different.

antoni 530

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It appears that my server bounced me and I presume I was unsubscribed

Michelle

---

----- Original Message -----

From: Anne Kaczanowski

To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, July 28, 2006 2:56 PM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] " Hiding and Seeking" film

This evening I attended a group gathering to watch the documentary film by Menachem Daum called Hiding and Seeking.  It is a film about a son of a Jewish holocaust survivor who goes back to Poland to reconnect with his past and meets the surviving Polish family who bravely hid his father-in-law's family for over 2 years during the time when this was forbidden.  It is a wonderful film that I am sure many in the group would relate to in comparing their own search for family roots and what this all means to us. It is just about the human element of compassion between people and bravery.  No films were sold at the viewing but Blockbuster carries the rentals for those interested.

 

hania    

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Dear All,

I too just returned from a month vacation in Poland.  This time I was lucky
to visit 7 places: Warsaw, Mazury, Gdansk, Ustka, back to Warsaw...then
Kazimierz nad Wisla and Lublin and back to Warsaw...then took a fast train
(173 zlotych round trip) to Krakow...and to Zakopane for a whole day (by bus
20 zlotych round trip for a day)...
Enjoyed immensely seeing so much of Poland for the first time, and I had
been in Poland probably more than ten times during the last 25 years..yet I
never ventured outside the main cities and our mountain region before:
Warsaw-Krakow-Zakopane.
I do wish to share with you what made it possible for me to do it this time:
A year and a half ago while I was in Poland I looked for some
American/Polish business that I could perhaps start, as I had just retired
from the University of Los Angeles, California, after 27 years working
there.  So, I found a conglomorate company in Warsaw, that (owns some and
just operates others), over 600 hotels throughout Poland. The company wanted
to start an affiliate company in USA...hence I became their representative
in California and as an incentive they give me up to 50% discounts on most
hotels...some just 40% or so...
  The hotels I have paid before $160 per night...I am able to get ( and you
all can too), for $80 a night or less for 2 people with two full
breakfasts...eg. We stayed in a beautiful hotel just outside Ustka with
superb breakfasts for $50 a night).
There are different prices of course...some are much much less than
others...it is according to what you wish to spend...please go to and check
my website:

  www.polandstay.com  and choose according to your budget...when you need a
hotel...

it is helping many people to afford longer stays in Poland with the savings
this provides. Lest you think that I make a 'mint'...'No'... my commission
is 5% on what I bring ( I have to make for them $1,000 to receive $50 ), but
that is not the point....many people save, and I do too...and I have just
about retrieved my 'output' for licenses and insurance and website etc.
etc....
But I plan to travel every year to Poland now, for it makes it possible for
me to do so...so if it helps you too...all the better...if you stay with the
relatives, that is even better still.
I also this time acquired my Polish Citizenship for which I put in request
with all the documents over a year ago with the Polish Consulate in Los
Angeles.  But during this visit to Poland, I went in person to the
government offices in Warsaw  and successfully obtained (in one week ) my
Polish Citizenship (Polskie Obywatelstwo)...I am delighted, and will now
have a Polish Passport, first time in my life.  (my family were taken to
Siberia when I was 5 months old and we never returned to live in Poland).

Should you wish any questions answered re: above, don't hesitate to e-mail
me and I would be happy to assist.

With warmest regards to ALL,
Roma King

-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Valerie
Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 6:19 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Holiday in Krakow

Dear All,

I came back from a holiday in Krakow on Tuesday.  I found it the
most amazing place I have ever visited and can't wait to go back.
The tours were a bit pricey but we visited Czestochowa, Wieliczka,
Auschwitz/Birkenau, Zakopana and we also had a walking tour of
Krakow   The weather was very warm but we did have some rain which
quickly cleared up.

We spent our evenings in Rynek Glowny and were spolit for choice
where to eat. On the first evening we found a lovely restaurant away
from the main square called "Pod Kominkiem" in ul. Bracka 13. It is
reached by a long flight of stairs down into what looks like a
cellar.  The young man who served us was subjected to my limited
Polish.  He didn't laugh and was very encouraging. In recent years I
have had very little opportunity to speak Polish and I was a bit
nervous in case I was laughed at. I felt I did really well and one
of the tour guides said I had a 'cute' accent. We spent our last
evening here as well. We sampled other restaurants and all were
excellent and fantastic value for money. I am now on a diet until
Christmas - too much Bigos, Pierogi etc.

Our first day was spent wandering around the Old Town and
discovering the many treasures in the Cloth Hall. I couldn't resist
buying some amber. It was so hot that a water tanker was being used
to spray the roads to stop the tarmac from melting.  We spent time
walking in the Planty which nicely separated the Old Town from the
rest.

On our second day we went on a walking tour of Krakow and saw the
Kazimierz District, Wawel Castle, and the Church of St Mary.  How
any of this has survived through so many invasions is beyond belief.
Our tour guide introduced us to a couple of legends associated with
Krakow. I knew about the interrupted trumpet call but I didn't know
about the dragon.

Czestochowa was our second excursion, this time in a mini bus.  We
shared our visit with Erik, from Holland and Marius, our driver. One
of the nuns acted as our guide at the monastery. I knew the legend
of the Black Madonna. Once again I can't believe how this place has
survived! My only complaint was that we couldn't spend more time
here.

Our next trip took us further afield to Zakopane and the Tatra
Mountains. This was another enjoyable day even though I was caught
in a thunderstorm and got very wet.  Yes we had brought umbrellas
but they were safely stored in our luggage at the hotel! The view
from the top was fantastic and I would love to come back in winter.

Auschwitz/Birkenau was next on the list.  I had been advised not to
leave this until the last day and I was grateful that I hadn't. It
was heartbreaking to see the pictures of the prisoners on the wall.
The Nazis kept records, at first, of the mostly Polish prisoners but
later on they didn't bother and people disappeared without trace.
How did the Nazis feel when they separated the families knowing that
some would go immediately to gas chambers and the rest would be kept
in such awful conditions only to die within weeks of arriving? Did
they feel anything at all?

Our last day was spent in The Wieliczka Salt Mines, another
fantastic place.  I don't like enclosed spaces and it didn't help to
have my son muttering things like 'Just imagine how much rock is
above us' After a long series of wooden steps we finally reached the
tourist level and started our journey through the many passages and
caverns. The place is filled with carvings made from the salt and
all have been made by the miners in their spare time.  All fantastic
and again I wished that we had more time to spend.  All too quickly
the visit was over and we were heading for the lifts to take us back
to the surface.

This was my first visit to Poland, and to an area where my father
once lived.  Now I know where I come from, I feel like an adopted
child discovering her birth parents. I had always wondered why my
parents settled in York, away from any Polish community.  But now,
having seen Krakow and the views from the Vistula I think I know.
York is built between two rivers, it has a castle and a cathedral
and many other historical buildings. Both cities feel very similar!

Finally, thank you to Stefan for setting up this site and to all of
you.  If I hadn't discovered the Kresy-Siberia site I would not have
contemplated this journey.  Perhaps one day I can make a similar
journey to the area near Lwow,where my mother from.

All the best
Val (Oldham,UK)





Please support the group by subscribing and by making a donation:
http://www.kresy-siberia.org

****************************************************************************
  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
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----- Original Message -----

From: michelle Moffatt

To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:29 AM

Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: subscribe

 

 

 

It appears that my server bounced me and I presume I was unsubscribed

Michelle

---

>ok although I missed a bunch of emails and was sent a letter saying I had
to reset??

Michelle




  No, you are still in ?!?!?
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: michelle Moffatt
>   To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 4:29 AM
>   Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: subscribe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>     It appears that my server bounced me and I presume I was unsubscribed
>     Michelle
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Czesc, wszyscy,

I'm trying to find more information about the chapel in Horyngrod
that was attended by many osadnicy living in Hallerowo, Krechowiecka,
Jazlowiecka, etc. My mother was baptized there, and our dziadek sang
in the choir for Sunday Mass.

There's a photo of the Karlowszczyzna church consecrated in 1936, and
demolished post-WWII here:
http://wolyn.ovh.org/opisy/hallerowo-08.html

Apparently, the kaplica at Horyngrod was coupla hundred years old,
and its construction had been financed by the land-owning
Czetwertynski and Czartoryski families. It too was demolished after
WWII, but there's a cross at the site on the east side of the north-
south road from Szubkow. Several of us have been there.

Anybody know what the church was called? Anybody have a photo?

Andy (Andrzej Polewski) Bender
San Jose, CA.

Here are links to two companion sites to the film
where discussions take place and additional
information is offered.

I believe that Menachem Daum appeared at Poland in the
Rockies. Can someone who went share their observations
of that appearance ?

http://www.pbs.org/pov/pov2005/hidingandseeking/

http://www.hidingandseeking.com/

Andy Golebiowski
Buffalo, New York
USA

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Dear fellow Members of the Kresy-Siberia Group

Going back to my earliest memories of the times we left the Hell of the
Soviet Union, a song seems to have been sang around me. It seems to have
become lodged in my subconscience, never to be forgotten.

A few years ago, when I've had occasion to visit my birthplace I met some
people that remembered the fateful events of the 10th February 1940.
Although I remember it as a song, one of the old ladies there, recited the
whole of it as a poem.

I enclose the poem/song in its entirety in the original polish as well as a
translation into English.

Perhaps some of the older members also remember the song and may wish to
share their memories of it or any further information they may have about
it.

Regards
  Eugene Krajewski

My Mother remembers this song...and the 10th of February 1940 when they came
to Staro Swieciany, (70 kilometrow od Wilna), and took us to Siberia...I was
not quite five months...
Regards,
Roma King

_____________________________________________
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of Eugeniusz Krajewski
Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2006 11:35 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia Group
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] 10th of FebruaryDear

Dear fellow Members of the Kresy-Siberia Group

Going back to my earliest memories of the times we left the Hell of the
Soviet Union, a song seems to have been sang around me. It seems to have
become lodged in my subconscience, never to be forgotten.

A few years ago, when I've had occasion to visit my birthplace I met some
people that remembered the fateful events of the 10th February 1940.
Although I remember it as a song, one of the old ladies there, recited the
whole of it as a poem.

I enclose the poem/song in its entirety in the original polish as well as a
translation into English.

Perhaps some of the older members also remember the song and may wish to
share their memories of it or any further information they may have about
it.

Regards
  << File: Poem - 10ty Luty.doc >> Eugene Krajewski

I would like to check also if I am still registered with the group or
not?...as nothing I write appears...3rd time now, so please let me know if
by being 'inacctive' for a few months cancelled me out???

Sincerely,

Roma King



   _____

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of michelle Moffatt
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:29 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: subscribe











It appears that my server bounced me and I presume I was unsubscribed

Michelle






   _____



<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5felement%3
bst%3b&SG=&RAND=98300> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!

I would like to check also if I am still registered with the group or
not?...as nothing I write appears...3rd time now, so please let me know if
by being 'inacctive' for a few months cancelled me out???

Sincerely,

Roma King

_____

From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of michelle Moffatt
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2006 11:29 AM
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Kresy-Siberia] Re: subscribe

It appears that my server bounced me and I presume I was unsubscribed

Michelle

_____

<http://promos.hotbar.com/promos/promodll.dll?RunPromo&El=hotbar%5felement%3
bst%3b&SG=&RAND=98300> Upgrade Your Email - Click here!