hi all,

my name is ewa, my father informed me of this group and I have joined
to both increase my knowledge of the topic and share what I know with
others. i am a descendant of survivors of the polish holocaust from
the eastern border of poland (area now in the ukraine). my father,
aunt, grandmother and grandfather were deported from their village,
huta pieniacka to siberia in 1939. consequently, the remaining
inhabitants of huta pieniacka were massacred 5 years later. my
father's family survived siberia and then went through iran, lebanon,
england and finally america. they lived in new york and new jersey. my
grandmother and aunt are now in queens, my father in nj, and I live in
brooklyn, ny. as part of gaining knowledge of the subject, I work with
my father to find books and other documentation of the subject. there
is a book that we are looking for, the author named hume or something
to that degree, and it was written about UNRA and the surivors sent to
the middle east. does anyone know of the title of this book or how we
may purchase it?

best,

ewa

Hello Roman,

I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
leaving Russia and going to Persia.  I came across
amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
Novosibirsk and Lugovoj.  Do you know of anyone who
was at Lugovoj?  Thanks for your help.  Linda

--- romed46 <romed46@...> wrote:

>
> According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> morning, 13th
> August,
> 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> nights, and on the
> morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> The transit camp
> was
> located some 5 miles outside the town of
> Krasnovodsk.On August
> 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> port of
> Krasnovodsk
> where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> port of
> Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> in the morning of
> August 19th, 1942.
> I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> one canteen of
> water per day. The temperatures were around
> 100F.Local people,
> outside
> the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> of water.On the
> ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> Playwood boards
> 4'X8'
> were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> had to climb behind
> it
> and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> directly into the
> sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
>
> Roman Skulski
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
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Would anyone have any photos of orphans there or memories of Maria
Klimaszewska? She would love to see old photos if they exist. Thanks
Iwona

Dear Linda,

My family went through Lugovoj because there was a Polska Placowka near to
the railway station. Two of my uncles enlisted in the army there and my
mother + her younger brother spent a month in the local hospital suffering
with Tyfus Plamisty. It's about 150km west of Almata in Kazakhstan.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina UK



-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of l willis
Sent: 01 June 2005 16:07
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942


Hello Roman,

I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
leaving Russia and going to Persia.  I came across
amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
Novosibirsk and Lugovoj.  Do you know of anyone who
was at Lugovoj?  Thanks for your help.  Linda

--- romed46 <romed46@...> wrote:

>
> According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> morning, 13th
> August,
> 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> nights, and on the
> morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> The transit camp
> was
> located some 5 miles outside the town of
> Krasnovodsk.On August
> 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> port of
> Krasnovodsk
> where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> port of
> Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> in the morning of
> August 19th, 1942.
> I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> one canteen of
> water per day. The temperatures were around
> 100F.Local people,
> outside
> the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> of water.On the
> ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> Playwood boards
> 4'X8'
> were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> had to climb behind
> it
> and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> directly into the
> sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
>
> Roman Skulski
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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****************************************************************************
  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
  Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
  Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
  Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
  Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************
  To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
  saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
****************************************************************************
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CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This email and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the
intended recipient.  If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read,
distribute or take action in reliance upon this message. If you have received
this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and promptly delete
this message and its attachments from your computer system.

www.logo.com

Stefan,

Please contact me on my direct e-mails regarding a password for the
Forgotton Odyssey site so that I can upload the pictures that were sent
to me for scanning and uploading.

Julek

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, l willis <lwil22000@y...>
wrote:
> Hello Roman,
>
> .
> Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia.
    Hello Linda,

Re Lugowaja;;;

The place or the camp forming a gathering point is just west of ALMA
ATA and north of Dzalal-Abad; also not far from Tashkient or
Turkestan. There was a Polish hospital and a camp of Batalion drogowy
and dywizii Piechoty.
antoni530
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Hello Halina and everyone else who replied to my
query!

I did not realize Lugovoy(?) was near/in Kazakhstan.

Halina, this is a question for you:  when did your
uncles pass through Lugovoj and enlist in the army, or
do you know the dates?  I am looking for anyone who
would have passed through there in March 1942.  My
information is that the person I am researching came
from Khrasnoyarsk, to Novosibirsk, and then to
Lugovoj, arriving on 25 March 1942.  He was inducted
into the Polish army the next day on 26 March 1942.
(Were your uncles coming from a labor camp by any
chance?)

Also, could someone explain to me why certain Polish
prisoners were given amnesty and were allowed to join
Gen. Ander's army and leave Russia while others were
not.  I don't think I have read a good explanation of
who was amnestied and who was not - and why.

Many thanks to all of you for your help.  Halina, I
hope to hear from you in due course.  Sincerely, Linda



--- Halina Szulakowska <hszulakowska@...> wrote:

> Dear Linda,
>
> My family went through Lugovoj because there was a
> Polska Placowka near to
> the railway station. Two of my uncles enlisted in
> the army there and my
> mother + her younger brother spent a month in the
> local hospital suffering
> with Tyfus Plamisty. It's about 150km west of Almata
> in Kazakhstan.
>
> Pozdrowienia,
> Halina UK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of l
> willis
> Sent: 01 June 2005 16:07
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk -
> Pahlevi - 1942
>
>
> Hello Roman,
>
> I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
> Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to
> Persia.
> Do you have any recollection of a place called
> Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia.  I came across
> amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
> Novosibirsk and Lugovoj.  Do you know of anyone who
> was at Lugovoj?  Thanks for your help.  Linda
>
> --- romed46 <romed46@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> > morning, 13th
> > August,
> > 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> > nights, and on the
> > morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> > The transit camp
> > was
> > located some 5 miles outside the town of
> > Krasnovodsk.On August
> > 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk
> > where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We
> left
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in
> Pahlevi
> > in the morning of
> > August 19th, 1942.
> > I should add that in the transit camp we were
> given
> > one canteen of
> > water per day. The temperatures were around
> > 100F.Local people,
> > outside
> > the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a
> litre
> > of water.On the
> > ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> > Playwood boards
> > 4'X8'
> > were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> > had to climb behind
> > it
> > and holding the rail to relieve
> himselves/herselves
> > directly into the
> > sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
> >
> > Roman Skulski
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
>  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE
> RECOGNITION
>  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and
> recognising the Polish citizens
>  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union
> during World War Two."
>
****************************************************************************
>  Discussion site
> : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
>  Virtual Memorial Wall :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
>  Gallery (photos, documents) :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
>  Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
>
****************************************************************************
>  To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an
> e-mail
>  saying who you are and describing your interest in
> the group to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
****************************************************************************
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
> This email and any attachments are for the exclusive
> and confidential use of the intended recipient.  If
> you are not the intended recipient, please do not
> read, distribute or take action in reliance upon
> this message. If you have received this in error,
> please notify us immediately by return email and
> promptly delete this message and its attachments
> from your computer system.
>
> www.logo.com
>




__________________________________
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Welcome to the group. I am sure that you will find a lot of info about what we
went through.
Romuald
Virginia USA

-Hello Linda,

No, I do not recollect place called Lugovoj. I do not know anyone who
was in Lugovoj.

Roman


-- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, l willis <lwil22000@y...> wrote:
> Hello Roman,
>
> I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
> Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
> Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia.  I came across
> amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
> Novosibirsk and Lugovoj.  Do you know of anyone who
> was at Lugovoj?  Thanks for your help.  Linda
>
> --- romed46 <romed46@y...> wrote:
>
> >
> > According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> > morning, 13th
> > August,
> > 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> > nights, and on the
> > morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> > The transit camp
> > was
> > located some 5 miles outside the town of
> > Krasnovodsk.On August
> > 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk
> > where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> > in the morning of
> > August 19th, 1942.
> > I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> > one canteen of
> > water per day. The temperatures were around
> > 100F.Local people,
> > outside
> > the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> > of water.On the
> > ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> > Playwood boards
> > 4'X8'
> > were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> > had to climb behind
> > it
> > and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> > directly into the
> > sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
> >
> > Roman Skulski
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

Dear Linda,

I'll reply to your query about the amnesty first: All Polish Citizens that
were deported were entitled to the amnesty. However, not all of them were
informed of it by their camp/gulag/kolhoz commandants because they were a
cheap and badly needed labour force. it was a 'begrudging' amnesty that was
granted.

My family on my mother's side were deported to a camp called Kurochka, about
100km south of Novosibirsk, from the Podole in Feb 1940. They were told of
the Amnesty in Sept 1941 and set off by train south to Kazakhstan. When they
ran out of money, they found work on a Kolhoz near Aktobe (about 50km north
east of Chu).

In late Jan 1942 the two oldest sons from the family left the Kolhoz and
caught a train for Logovoj. Here, they enlisted at the beginning of
February.

On the 1st March a transport left Lugovoj with my uncles bound for
Krasnovodsk. The rest of the family had permits to catch this train and be
evacuated. However, they were late arriving in Lugovoj. They arrived just as
the army train was ready to pull away. My mother remembers hearing the
soldiers on board singing the hymn 'Serdeczna Matka'. If my grandfather
hadn't gone to report to the Polska Placowka first, my mother believes they
would have caught the transport.

Instead, they got left behind with other Polish civilians, who set up a
shanty town around the Placowka. That's when my mother and another uncle
caught Tyfus - from the rats and lack of sanitation. The children were then
taken to the local civilian hospital in Lugovoj and given exactly four weeks
to recover and then leave.

Since another transport wasn't being planned immediately, the Placowka
started finding work for the Polish Citizens in kolhoz farms nearby. My
family were assigned to one at Konzavod (25km away from Lugovoj).

Not until August that same year did a second transport out of Lugovoj
arrive. The family, along with the other Poles at the Placowka, were told by
the Commandant that they would not be allowed to leave... So the Poles, en
masse, packed up and walked out. They left Kazakhstan on 15th August - the
Feast of the Assumption of the Virgin - and everybody sang Marian hymns as
the train pulled away.

Why there was a delay between the two evacuations of the Polish Citizens
from the USSR is unknown to me. I've asked this question of the KSgroup
before. I know, from what I've read, that the British Army and the
US/British Red Cross at Pahlavi were shocked by the state of the first Poles
arriving in Iran. They also weren't prepared for the number of civilians and
orphaned children arriving. Maybe they, therefore, needed time to reorganise
their relief aid program before more could be taken out of the USSR.

I have reconstructed a map of the Kazak area mentioned above, and can post
this to you privately if you would like.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina




CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This email and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the
intended recipient.  If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read,
distribute or take action in reliance upon this message. If you have received
this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and promptly delete
this message and its attachments from your computer system.

----- Original Message -----

From: linderladbrooke

To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com

KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
Discussion site : http://groups.yahoocom/group/Kresy-Siberia/
Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
****************************************************************************

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 14:39:20 -0000
From: "eustace4eva"
Subject: new to the group

hi all,

my name is ewa,..........

 I work with my father to find books and other documentation of the subject. there
is a book that we are looking for, the author named hume or something
to that degree, and it was written about UNRA and the surivors sent to
the middle east. does anyone know of the title of this book or how we
may purchase it?

best,

ewa





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 08:06:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: l willis
Subject: Re: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Hello Roman,

I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
leaving Russia and going to Persia. I came across
amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
Novosibirsk and Lugovoj. Do you know of anyone who
was at Lugovoj? Thanks for your help. Linda

--- romed46 wrote:

>
> According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> morning, 13th
> August,
> 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> nights, and on the
> morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> The transit camp
> was
> located some 5 miles outside the town of
> Krasnovodsk.On August
> 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> port of
> Krasnovodsk
> where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> port of
> Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> in the morning of
> August 19th, 1942.
> I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> one canteen of
> water per day. The temperatures were around
> 100F.Local people,
> outside
> the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> of water.On the
> ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> Playwood boards
> 4'X8'
> were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> had to climb behind
> it
> and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> directly into the
> sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
>
> Roman Skulski
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 15:16:42 -0000
From: "iwonaglowacz"
Subject: Outsdhoorn

Would anyone have any photos of orphans there or memories of Maria
Klimaszewska? She would love to see old photos if they exist. Thanks
Iwona





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 16:19:46 +0100
From: "Halina Szulakowska"
Subject: RE: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Dear Linda,

My family went through Lugovoj because there was a Polska Placowka near to
the railway station. Two of my uncles enlisted in the army there and my
mother + her younger brother spent a month in the local hospital suffering
with Tyfus Plamisty. It's about 150km west of Almata in Kazakhstan.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina UK



-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of l willis
Sent: 01 June 2005 16:07
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942


Hello Roman,

I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
leaving Russia and going to Persia. I came across
amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
Novosibirsk and Lugovoj. Do you know of anyone who
was at Lugovoj? Thanks for your help. Linda

--- romed46 wrote:

>
> According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> morning, 13th
> August,
> 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> nights, and on the
> morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> The transit camp
> was
> located some 5 miles outside the town of
> Krasnovodsk.On August
> 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> port of
> Krasnovodsk
> where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> port of
> Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> in the morning of
> August 19th, 1942.
> I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> one canteen of
> water per day. The temperatures were around
> 100F.Local people,
> outside
> the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> of water.On the
> ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> Playwood boards
> 4'X8'
> were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> had to climb behind
> it
> and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> directly into the
> sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
>
> Roman Skulski
>
>
>
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail



****************************************************************************
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
****************************************************************************
Yahoo! Groups Links













CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
This email and any attachments are for the exclusive and confidential use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, distribute or take action in reliance upon this message. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by return email and promptly delete this message and its attachments from your computer system.

www.logo.com


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:35:49 -0000
From: "julek2205"
Subject: password


Stefan,

Please contact me on my direct e-mails regarding a password for the
Forgotton Odyssey site so that I can upload the pictures that were sent
to me for scanning and uploading.

Julek





________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 09:44:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: HJ Trevelyan
Subject: Information needed for future Christian Science Monitor article on dual citizenship

Hello,

Today, Ancestry.com lists the following request from Ron DePasquale:

"I'm looking to speak with anyone with dual citizenship for an article for the Christian Science Monitor (csmonitor.com). If you obtained or are trying to get Polish citizenship through an ancestral claim and you'd like to talk about it, please email me at rdepasquale@.... Thanks."

Cordially,

Hala T.
Hermosa Beach, CA, USA



[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:49:36 -0000
From: "antoni530"
Subject: Re: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

--- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, l willis
wrote:
> Hello Roman,
>
> .
> Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia.
Hello Linda,

Re Lugowaja;;;

The place or the camp forming a gathering point is just west of ALMA
ATA and north of Dzalal-Abad; also not far from Tashkient or
Turkestan. There was a Polish hospital and a camp of Batalion drogowy
and dywizii Piechoty.
antoni530
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
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Message: 8
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2005 12:02:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: l willis
Subject: RE: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Hello Halina and everyone else who replied to my
query!

I did not realize Lugovoy(?) was near/in Kazakhstan.

Halina, this is a question for you: when did your
uncles pass through Lugovoj and enlist in the army, or
do you know the dates? I am looking for anyone who
would have passed through there in March 1942. My
information is that the person I am researching came
from Khrasnoyarsk, to Novosibirsk, and then to
Lugovoj, arriving on 25 March 1942. He was inducted
into the Polish army the next day on 26 March 1942.
(Were your uncles coming from a labor camp by any
chance?)

Also, could someone explain to me why certain Polish
prisoners were given amnesty and were allowed to join
Gen. Ander's army and leave Russia while others were
not. I don't think I have read a good explanation of
who was amnestied and who was not - and why.

Many thanks to all of you for your help. Halina, I
hope to hear from you in due course. Sincerely, Linda



--- Halina Szulakowska wrote:

> Dear Linda,
>
> My family went through Lugovoj because there was a
> Polska Placowka near to
> the railway station. Two of my uncles enlisted in
> the army there and my
> mother + her younger brother spent a month in the
> local hospital suffering
> with Tyfus Plamisty. It's about 150km west of Almata
> in Kazakhstan.
>
> Pozdrowienia,
> Halina UK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of l
> willis
> Sent: 01 June 2005 16:07
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk -
> Pahlevi - 1942
>
>
> Hello Roman,
>
> I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
> Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to
> Persia.
> Do you have any recollection of a place called
> Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia. I came across
> amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
> Novosibirsk and Lugovoj. Do you know of anyone who
> was at Lugovoj? Thanks for your help. Linda
>
> --- romed46 wrote:
>
> >
> > According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> > morning, 13th
> > August,
> > 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> > nights, and on the
> > morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> > The transit camp
> > was
> > located some 5 miles outside the town of
> > Krasnovodsk.On August
> > 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk
> > where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We
> left
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in
> Pahlevi
> > in the morning of
> > August 19th, 1942.
> > I should add that in the transit camp we were
> given
> > one canteen of
> > water per day. The temperatures were around
> > 100F.Local people,
> > outside
> > the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a
> litre
> > of water.On the
> > ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> > Playwood boards
> > 4'X8'
> > were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> > had to climb behind
> > it
> > and holding the rail to relieve
> himselves/herselves
> > directly into the
> > sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
> >
> > Roman Skulski
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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>
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
> KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE
> RECOGNITION
> "Dedicated to researching, remembering and
> recognising the Polish citizens
> deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union
> during World War Two."
>
****************************************************************************
> Discussion site
> : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
> Virtual Memorial Wall :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
> Gallery (photos, documents) :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
> Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
>
****************************************************************************
> To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an
> e-mail
> saying who you are and describing your interest in
> the group to:
> Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
> This email and any attachments are for the exclusive
> and confidential use of the intended recipient. If
> you are not the intended recipient, please do not
> read, distribute or take action in reliance upon
> this message. If you have received this in error,
> please notify us immediately by return email and
> promptly delete this message and its attachments
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Message: 9
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2005 21:23:56 -0400
From: rlipinsk@...
Subject: Re: new to the group

Welcome to the group. I am sure that you will find a lot of info about what we went through.
Romuald
Virginia USA


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 01:56:45 -0000
From: "romed46"
Subject: Re: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

-Hello Linda,

No, I do not recollect place called Lugovoj. I do not know anyone who
was in Lugovoj.

Roman


-- In Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com, l willis wrote:
> Hello Roman,
>
> I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
> Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to Persia.
> Do you have any recollection of a place called Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia. I came across
> amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
> Novosibirsk and Lugovoj. Do you know of anyone who
> was at Lugovoj? Thanks for your help. Linda
>
> --- romed46 wrote:
>
> >
> > According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> > morning, 13th
> > August,
> > 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> > nights, and on the
> > morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> > The transit camp
> > was
> > located some 5 miles outside the town of
> > Krasnovodsk.On August
> > 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk
> > where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We left
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in Pahlevi
> > in the morning of
> > August 19th, 1942.
> > I should add that in the transit camp we were given
> > one canteen of
> > water per day. The temperatures were around
> > 100F.Local people,
> > outside
> > the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a litre
> > of water.On the
> > ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> > Playwood boards
> > 4'X8'
> > were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> > had to climb behind
> > it
> > and holding the rail to relieve himselves/herselves
> > directly into the
> > sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
> >
> > Roman Skulski
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:58:39 +0100
From: "Halina Szulakowska"
Subject: RE: Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Dear Linda,

I'll reply to your query about the amnesty first: All Polish Citizens that
were deported were entitled to the amnesty. However, not all of them were
informed of it by their camp/gulag/kolhoz commandants because they were a
cheap and badly needed labour force. it was a 'begrudging' amnesty that was
granted.

My family on my mother's side were deported to a camp called Kurochka, about
100km south of Novosibirsk, from the Podole in Feb 1940. They were told of
the Amnesty in Sept 1941 and set off by train south to Kazakhstan. When they
ran out of money, they found work on a Kolhoz near Aktobe (about 50km north
east of Chu).

In late Jan 1942 the two oldest sons from the family left the Kolhoz and

=== message truncated ===

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From: Janette Obuch <ratther44@...>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 11:11:59 +0100 (BST)
To: Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: From Janette Obuch

My name is Janette Obuch and I live in Melbourne, Australia. I got to know about your group via Lucyna Artymiuk.
 
My father Franciszek Obuch was born in 1915 in Kovno, now Lithiuania and served in the Polish 300 and 301 Bomber Squadrons during the War. He survived 68+ missions including drops over Warsaw duriing the Uprising of 1944. He was awarded The Virtuti Militari for his missions, as were many Polish airmen.  Lucyna's father was in the same 300 Squadron.
 
My father was not deported to Siberia but escaped with the army south to Hungary in September 1939 and ended up in France fighting under General Sikorski. However, I know many Poles who were deported and appreciate the scale of the suffering which until recently has been written out of history and buried to the West and to the younger Polish generations.
 
My father's fate could easily have been otherwise as there are many Polish service personnel who came out with Anders Armyform the Russian Camps, and even more who persished unknown.   
 
I have seen the video The Forgoten Odyssey and commend the making of this video to commemorate the stories of these Siberian Survivors. It is a story of truly tragic proportion and suffering that has not been, for obvious political reasons, sufficiently known to or acknowledged by the world
 
My own background is that I studied history at University in England where I was born, I  emigrated here 16 years ago. I am particularly interested in any history that concerns Poland especially during the period of World war ll and would appreciate being accepted as a member of your yahoo group.  
 
Janette Obuch

--- Halina Szulakowska <hszulakowska@...> wrote:

I'll reply to your query about the amnesty first: All
Polish Citizens that
were deported were entitled to the amnesty. However,
not all of them were
informed of it by their camp/gulag/kolhoz commandants
because they were a
cheap and badly needed labour force. it was a
'begrudging' amnesty that was
granted.
End quote

And even if they were told about and given their
release papers, very often they were not given
transportation vouchers.  So they had to find their
own way to Anders from wherever they happened to be.
Some never made it.

Soviet authorities didn't make it easy for the Poles
to leave.  There was nothing in it for them.

Cheers,
Lech


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Hello Stefan,

I have tried to open the full files with maps and camp
details sites you mention below but I keep getting
error messages, that the grids cannot be viewed.  What
do I need to open in order to view these sites?

As for the first site you mentioned, i.e.,
www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery...etc., I have been
wondering about a reference therein -

“The first Guide Book to Prisons and Concentration
Camps of the Soviet Union” By Avraham Shifrin, Bantam
Books inc. 1982. Posted by Zbigniew Bob Styrna

There is a copy of Avraham Shifrin's book in the local
library but the map on the Forgotten Odyssey site is
not included in the book.  I asked the librarian if
the book was incomplete or the map had been removed,
but she said no.  Where did the map come from?  I have
read the entire book but it does not give the detail,
camp by camp, that is shown on the map.  In other
words, when looking at the map, regions have numbers
and then clusters of little dots around those numbers
- but the information in  book doesn't seem to detail
each dot or even the numbers.

So, I am wondering where there might be a key to the
map posted for Shifrin's book.Thanks,  Linda

--- Stefan Wisniowski <swisniowski@...> wrote:

> The Soviet labour camp maps that Linder posted are
> found at
>
http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Soviet
> Camps&page=2
>
> The full files with maps and camp details are at
> http://tinyurl.com/b8g8d
> or
>
http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8B6fQvF3gPftLe5qZQhMznro_zhTF2jGEppcowck5hV23QC
>
b6M6Plix0MxWOu5Y9k9G8ae789NX28936Rb7w/Corrective%20Labor%20Camps.doc
>
> --
> Stefan Wisniowski (moderator)
> Sydney, Australia
>
>
> Hi,
> Ičve loads of stuff about camps/what they
> did/where/maps etc ­ should have
> been put on site 1 year ago. [maybe it was?] Email
> me at
> Œladbrooke@...č over the weekend and Ičll
> fish it all out for you.
> Linder
>
>




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Hello Halina,

Thank you again for all your information.  I, too,
wonder why there was no train from Lugovoj between 1
March and August 1942?  As you and other group members
have just mentioned, many people got left behind.
It's amazing in the first place that Gen. Anders was
able to get the Soviets to provide even one amnesty
and travel permit, let alone thousands.

Again, many thanks for your help.  Linda

--- Halina Szulakowska <hszulakowska@...> wrote:

> Dear Linda,
>
> My family went through Lugovoj because there was a
> Polska Placowka near to
> the railway station. Two of my uncles enlisted in
> the army there and my
> mother + her younger brother spent a month in the
> local hospital suffering
> with Tyfus Plamisty. It's about 150km west of Almata
> in Kazakhstan.
>
> Pozdrowienia,
> Halina UK
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of l
> willis
> Sent: 01 June 2005 16:07
> To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk -
> Pahlevi - 1942
>
>
> Hello Roman,
>
> I am re-reading some of the earlier comments about
> Anders Army and about the trip from Russia to
> Persia.
> Do you have any recollection of a place called
> Lugovoj
> which was some kind of gathering place for Poles
> leaving Russia and going to Persia.  I came across
> amnesty documents that list Khrasnoyarsk and then
> Novosibirsk and Lugovoj.  Do you know of anyone who
> was at Lugovoj?  Thanks for your help.  Linda
>
> --- romed46 <romed46@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > According to my diary we left Guzar on Wednesday
> > morning, 13th
> > August,
> > 1942. The train journey took two days and two
> > nights, and on the
> > morning of August 15th we arrived in Krasnovodsk.
> > The transit camp
> > was
> > located some 5 miles outside the town of
> > Krasnovodsk.On August
> > 18th,1942 we boarded the train that took us to the
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk
> > where we boarded Soviet ship " KAGANOVYCZ". We
> left
> > port of
> > Krasnovodsk within two hours and arrived in
> Pahlevi
> > in the morning of
> > August 19th, 1942.
> > I should add that in the transit camp we were
> given
> > one canteen of
> > water per day. The temperatures were around
> > 100F.Local people,
> > outside
> > the fence, asked for a golg wedding ring for a
> litre
> > of water.On the
> > ship Kaganovicz there were no toilet facilities.
> > Playwood boards
> > 4'X8'
> > were fixed to the railings of the deck and people
> > had to climb behind
> > it
> > and holding the rail to relieve
> himselves/herselves
> > directly into the
> > sea.It was not a very pleasant journey.
> >
> > Roman Skulski
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
>
>
>
>
****************************************************************************
>  KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE
> RECOGNITION
>  "Dedicated to researching, remembering and
> recognising the Polish citizens
>  deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union
> during World War Two."
>
****************************************************************************
>  Discussion site
> : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
>  Virtual Memorial Wall :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
>  Gallery (photos, documents) :
> http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
>  Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
>
****************************************************************************
>  To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an
> e-mail
>  saying who you are and describing your interest in
> the group to:
>  Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
****************************************************************************
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE:
> This email and any attachments are for the exclusive
> and confidential use of the intended recipient.  If
> you are not the intended recipient, please do not
> read, distribute or take action in reliance upon
> this message. If you have received this in error,
> please notify us immediately by return email and
> promptly delete this message and its attachments
> from your computer system.
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__________________________________
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Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

The Soviet labour camp maps that Linder posted are found at  
http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=SovietCamps&page=2

The full files with maps and camp details are at
http://tinyurl.com/b8g8d
or
http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8B6fQvF3gPftLe5qZQhMznro_zhTF2jGEppcowck5hV23QCb6M6Plix0MxWOu5Y9k9G8ae789NX28936Rb7w/Corrective%20Labor%20Camps.doc

--
Stefan Wisniowski (moderator)
Sydney, Australia

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

Hello Halina

From your message below you seem to have some expertise on movements of exiled Poles from Novosibirsk to Persia.   Limited information that I have from my late mother suggested that after Novosibirsk she ended up in Karaganda. (Viewing a current affairs snippet on contemporary Russian reaction to Stalin earlier this week, I heard the name Karaganda mentioned in reference to exiled Russians sent there as a Gulag work camp).  From there she was sent to camps to Kirghistan and Uzbekistan.  Apparently in the latter she was picking cotton.  After Tashkent she went to Buzuluk where she joined the Polish army and ended up in Tehran in 1942 having travelled via the Caspian sea.

So I have three questions to pose to your good self and others:

1. Why these journeys and why in that order
2. Do your maps show any of these journeys
3. Anyone else roughly followed the routes that my mother took to Persia during that time

Many thanks

Dave Lichtenstein

Sydney, Australia

Halina Szulakowska <hszulakowska@...> wrote:

Dear Linda,

I'll reply to your query about the amnesty first: All Polish Citizens that
were deported were entitled to the amnesty. However, not all of them were
informed of it by their camp/gulag/kolhoz commandants because they were a
cheap and badly needed labour force. it was a 'begrudging' amnesty that was
granted.

My family on my mother's side were deported to a camp called Kurochka, about
100km south of Novosibirsk, from the Podole in Feb 1940. They were told of
the Amnesty in Sept 1941 and set off by train south to Kazakhstan. When they
ran out of money, they found work on a Kolhoz near Aktobe (about 50km north
east of Chu).

In late Jan 1942 the two oldest sons from the family left the Kolhoz and
caught a train for Logovoj. Here, they enlisted at the beginning of
February.

On the 1st March a transport left Lugovoj with my uncles bound for
Krasnovodsk. The rest of the family had permits to catch this train and be
evacuated. However, they were late arriving in Lugovoj. They arrived just as
the army train was ready to pull away. My mother remembers hearing the
soldiers on board singing the hymn 'Serdeczna Matka'. If my grandfather
hadn't gone to report to the Polska Placowka first, my mother believes they
would have caught the transport.

Instead, they got left behind with other Polish civilians, who set up a
shanty town around the Placowka. That's when my mother and another uncle
caught Tyfus - from the rats and lack of sanitation. The children were then
taken to the local civilian hospital in Lugovoj and given exactly four weeks
to recover and then leave.

Since another transport wasn't being planned immediately, the Placowka
started finding work for the Polish Citizens in kolhoz farms nearby. My
family were assigned to one at Konzavod (25km away from Lugovoj).

Not until August that same year did a second transport out of Lugovoj
arrive. The family, along with the other Poles at the Placowka, were told by
the Commandant that they would not be allowed to leave... So the Poles, en
masse, packed up and walked out. They left Kazakhstan on 15th August - the
Feast of the Assumption of the Virgin - and everybody sang Marian hymns as
the train pulled away.

Why there was a delay between the two evacuations of the Polish Citizens
from the USSR is unknown to me. I've asked this question of the KSgroup
before. I know, from what I've read, that the British Army and the
US/British Red Cross at Pahlavi were shocked by the state of the first Poles
arriving in Iran. They also weren't prepared for the number of civilians and
orphaned children arriving. Maybe they, therefore, needed time to reorganise
their relief aid program before more could be taken out of the USSR.

I have reconstructed a map of the Kazak area mentioned above, and can post
this to you privately if you would like.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

****************************************************************************
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
****************************************************************************
To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
Kresy-Siberia-owner@yahoogroups.com
****************************************************************************

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To add to the travel programme, I just checked on the information my
mother provided a few years ago, although it seems incomplete:

Informed of being freed in August, 1941, but unable to leave until
October because of transportation problems.  People had to build rafts
then went down Chulym River to Asino (north of Tomsk).  Finally
allowed to get on a train, but my grandmother had to pay 1000 rubles
per person.  Joined a real train (not freight) in Omsk then to
Novosibirsk, Barnaul, Semipalatinsk, Alma Ata, Frunze, Tashkent, Osh.
Then it seems to be fairly incomplete until they met the main body of
the forming army in Guzari, where my mother joined the army.

I will be seeing her in late August so will go through this again with
a map.

Barbara Davoust

-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave Lichtenstein
Sent: 02 June 2005 23:54
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Hello Halina

From your message below you seem to have some expertise on movements of exiled Poles from Novosibirsk to Persia.   Limited information that I have from my late mother suggested that after Novosibirsk she ended up in Karaganda. (Viewing a current affairs snippet on contemporary Russian reaction to Stalin earlier this week, I heard the name Karaganda mentioned in reference to exiled Russians sent there as a Gulag work camp).  From there she was sent to camps to Kirghistan and Uzbekistan.  Apparently in the latter she was picking cotton.  After Tashkent she went to Buzuluk where she joined the Polish army and ended up in Tehran in 1942 having travelled via the Caspian sea.

So I have three questions to pose to your good self and others:

1. Why these journeys and why in that order
2. Do your maps show any of these journeys
3. Anyone else roughly followed the routes that my mother took to Persia during that time

Many thanks

Dave Lichtenstein

Sydney, Australia

Halina Szulakowska <hszulakowska@...> wrote:

Dear Linda,

I'll reply to your query about the amnesty first: All Polish Citizens that
were deported were entitled to the amnesty. However, not all of them were
informed of it by their camp/gulag/kolhoz commandants because they were a
cheap and badly needed labour force. it was a 'begrudging' amnesty that was
granted.

My family on my mother's side were deported to a camp called Kurochka, about
100km south of Novosibirsk, from the Podole in Feb 1940. They were told of
the Amnesty in Sept 1941 and set off by train south to Kazakhstan. When they
ran out of money, they found work on a Kolhoz near Aktobe (about 50km north
east of Chu).

In late Jan 1942 the two oldest sons from the family left the Kolhoz and
caught a train for Logovoj. Here, they enlisted at the beginning of
February.

On the 1st March a transport left Lugovoj with my uncles bound for
Krasnovodsk. The rest of the family had permits to catch this train and be
evacuated. However, they were late arriving in Lugovoj. They arrived just as
the army train was ready to pull away. My mother remembers hearing the
soldiers on board singing the hymn 'Serdeczna Matka'. If my grandfather
hadn't gone to report to the Polska Placowka first, my mother believes they
would have caught the transport.

Instead, they got left behind with other Polish civilians, who set up a
shanty town around the Placowka. That's when my mother and another uncle
caught Tyfus - from the rats and lack of sanitation. The children were then
taken to the local civilian hospital in Lugovoj and given exactly four weeks
to recover and then leave.

Since another transport wasn't being planned immediately, the Placowka
started finding work for the Polish Citizens in kolhoz farms nearby. My
family were assigned to one at Konzavod (25km away from Lugovoj).

Not until August that same year did a second transport out of Lugovoj
arrive. The family, along with the other Poles at the Placowka, were told by
the Commandant that they would not be allowed to leave... So the Poles, en
masse, packed up and walked out. They left Kazakhstan on 15th August - the
Feast of the Assumption of the Virgin - and everybody sang Marian hymns as
the train pulled away.

Why there was a delay between the two evacuations of the Polish Citizens
from the USSR is unknown to me. I've asked this question of the KSgroup
before. I know, from what I've read, that the British Army and the
US/British Red Cross at Pahlavi were shocked by the state of the first Poles
arriving in Iran. They also weren't prepared for the number of civilians and
orphaned children arriving. Maybe they, therefore, needed time to reorganise
their relief aid program before more could be taken out of the USSR.

I have reconstructed a map of the Kazak area mentioned above, and can post
this to you privately if you would like.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina

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Dear Dave and Linda,

Here are a few dates that might help with your own research:

August 4th 1941
General W?adys?aw Anders is release from Lubianka prison, Moscow.
He begins formation of 2nd Corps in Buzuluk.


January 15th 1942
Anders moves his HQ from Buzuluk to Yangi-Yaul near Tashkent (capital of
Uzbekistan).
Other army enrolment posts are set up in Kirgishstan, Kazakhstan (inc.
Lugovoj) and Tadzykistan. (I would assume that the Sikorski Institute in
London has details of all these collection points - unless there is a book
listing them, which I'm unaware of).


Between 42 March 26th - April 10th
33,000 military and 11,000 civilians are evacuated out of the USSR.
At the same time, on 1st April, all Polish units formed in the USSR fall
under British command.


August 1942
Second mass evacuation of Poles from USSR to Persia. While 98% of the
evacuation is by tanker across the Caspian (from Krasnovodsk to Pahlavi) an
overland evacuation of 701 soldiers and 1,936 civilians (many orphans) also
occurs.


January 16th 1943
Moscow informs Polish GOV-IN-EXILE that all remaining Kresy deportees will
be considered Soviet citizens. This puts an end to further plans for
evacuation.


I recently read that Sikorski was pushing for a third evacuation of Poles
from the USSR. This occured just after the Katyn war crime was uncovered.
Churchill was trying to pacify Sikorski (ie. shut him up) bu negotiating
with Stalin for one last evacuation of Poles from the USSR. It seems that
Sikorski was going for this plan just when, conveniently for everyone, his
plane crashed.

Pozdrowienia,
Halina UK




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Dave,  I'd like to ask a question of your Mom's journey.  You say she went from Taskent to Buzuluk....everyone else went the other way...from Buzuluk towards  Tashkent. The original army formations started in Buzuluk in 1941, and were moved southward within months to a warmer climate finally most ending up in Tashkent area. I am just wondering if this is error or in fact did your Mom  end up traveling north which is odd.

 

 

hania

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-----Original Message-----
From: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave Lichtenstein
Sent: 03 June 2005 10:09
To: Kresy-Siberia@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Kresy-Siberia] Guzar - Krasnovodsk - Pahlevi - 1942

Oops Hania - I goofed

 

She went south from Novsibersk through through Uzbekistan, Kirgestan and Tashkent.  Eventually she was among a group of Polish Nationals released at Karaganda [presumably she went north or was sent there by the Soviets].   She was then transported to Buzuluk by train before being transported to Persia by ship across the Caspian sea. 

 

Does that make more sense?

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Anne Kaczanowski <annekaczanowski@...> wrote:

Dave,  I'd like to ask a question of your Mom's journey.  You say she went from Taskent to Buzuluk....everyone else went the other way...from Buzuluk towards  Tashkent. The original army formations started in Buzuluk in 1941, and were moved southward within months to a warmer climate finally most ending up in Tashkent area. I am just wondering if this is error or in fact did your Mom  end up traveling north which is odd.

 

 

hania

Send instant messages to your online friends http://au.messenger.yahoo.com

****************************************************************************
KRESY-SIBERIA GROUP = RESEARCH REMEMBRANCE RECOGNITION
"Dedicated to researching, remembering and recognising the Polish citizens
deported, enslaved and killed by the Soviet Union during World War Two."
****************************************************************************
Discussion site : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Kresy-Siberia/
Virtual Memorial Wall : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/memorial/
Gallery (photos, documents) : http://www.aforgottenodyssey.com/gallery/
Film and info : http://www.AForgottenOdyssey.com
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To SUBSCRIBE to the discussion group, send an e-mail
saying who you are and describing your interest in the group to:
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