Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
Jharkhand · Jharkhand Forum | Jharkhand.org.in
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Want to share photos of your group with the world? Add a group photo to Flickr.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
Maoist Insurgency and Operation Blind Hunt in Lalgarh   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #733 of 743 |
Dear Manoj  babu:

Thanks for your bold assertion that you are a Republican, when only 20% people today in America, say that they are Republicans,  this withstanding that there are many honorable men in Republican party, starting with the immortal Abe Lincoln. But today’s Republican party is just the opposite of what it was at Lincoln’s time except it’s NAME.  It NOW represents the racist, selfish, greedy, irrational, irresponsible and vocal people, who don’t even believe in rule of law, which has made America great.  That is why there continuous erosion of support for the party and it’s captured by fringe people like Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck of Fox News, et el.  I only hope they are not your heros.

 

But that is besides the point I am going to make today. I will respond to your riddle BPL vs. BPPPPL issue or how or why the tribals produce more children and thus remain poor.  And why your arguing that they are responsible for their own fate, is wrong conclusion.  This week's The Economist, a reputed British magazine, analyses  the issue at length and I want all to be aware of it.  It analyses what inputs, result in what outcome?  Not only your prescription seems wrong but you apply the medicine it seems, to the wrong people:  

 

Here are the two articles and excerpts to make my point,

  1.  Go forth and multiply a lot less,  http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=14743589

Excerpts:

Scenarios why people tend to produce more children and what stops it:

 

“To understand why wealthy people differ from well-fed animals, imagine yourself a dirt-poor (male) peasant 50 years ago. Your fields are in the middle of nowhere. Your village has no school, hospital or government services, certainly no pensions. Few goods come into it from outside, though disease is rampant and security fragile. Ploughing and reaping are done by hand. But if the harvest is normal, you usually have enough to go round. In these circumstances, the benefit of an extra pair of hands to gather the harvest outweighs the cost of feeding an extra mouth (which anyway falls on your wife more than you). And when you can no longer work in the fields, your children will be the only ones to look after you. In such a society, all the incentives point to having large families.

The abandoned hamlet

Now imagine you are a bit richer. You may have moved to a town, or your village may have grown. Schools, markets and factories are within reach. And suddenly, the incentives change. A tractor can gather the harvest better than children. Your wife may get a factory job—and now her lost wages must be set against the benefits of another baby. Education, thrift and a stake in the future become more important, and these middle-class virtues go hand in hand with smaller families. Education costs money, so you may not be able to afford a large family. Perhaps the state provides a pension and you no longer need children to look after you. And perhaps your wife is no longer willing to bear endless offspring. Higher living standards, better communications and more education enable you to rely on markets and public services, not just yourself and your family.”

“Macroeconomic research bears out this picture. Fertility starts to drop at an annual income per person of $1,000-2,000 and falls until it hits the replacement level at an income per head of $4,000-10,000 a year (see chart 2). This roughly tracks the passage from poverty to middle-income status and from an agrarian society to a modern one. Thereafter fertility continues at or below replacement until, for some, it turns up again.

The link between living standards and fertility exists within countries, too. India’s poorest state, Bihar, has a fertility rate of 4; richer Tamil Nadu and Kerala have rates below 2. Shanghai has had a fertility rate of less than 1.7 since 1975; in Guizhou, China’s poorest province, the rate is 2.2. So strong is the link between wealth and fertility that the few countries where fertility is not falling are those torn apart by war, such as Congo, Liberia and Sierra Leone, where living standards have not risen.”

There are other reasons from the articles that I quote:

“What parents want

The link between wealth and fertility does not explain everything. In some countries, poor women have the same number of children as rich ones. This suggests that other factors are at work. The most obvious is that many people in poor countries want fewer children, and family planning helps them get their wish.

A surprising amount is known about how many children parents want, thanks to a series of surveys by the Demographic and Health Surveys programme. The picture it paints is of huge numbers of unplanned pregnancies. In Brazil, for example, the wanted fertility rate in 1996 (the most recent year available) was 1.8; the actual fertility rate then was 2.5. In India the wanted rate in 2006 was 1.9, the actual one, 2.7. In Ghana the figures for 2003 were 3.7 and 4.4. The rule seems to be that women want one child fewer than they are having (except in some rich countries, where they say they want more).

One study in 2002 estimated that as many as a quarter of all pregnancies in developing countries in the 1990s were unintended. Yet another found that more African women say they want to use contraceptives but cannot get them (25m) than actually use them (18m). Unmet demand in turn implies that fertility in some countries could be even lower than it actually is if more family planning were available. The proportion of women using contraception in Latin America and East Asia is four times the African rate.

That points to another big reason why fertility is falling: the spread of female education. Go back to the countries where fertility has fallen fastest and you will find remarkable literacy programmes. As early as 1962, for example, 80% of young women in Mauritius could read and write. In Iran in 1976, only 10% of rural women aged 20 to 24 were literate. Now that share is 91%, and Iran not only has one of the best-educated populations in the Middle East but the one in which men and women have the most equal educational chances. Iranian girls aged 15-19 have roughly the same number of years of schooling as boys do. Educated women are more likely to go out to work, more likely to demand contraception and less likely to want large families.”

It is very clear that what did not happen to the tribal that resulted in current situation:

1.      No upward mobility in life, resulting in primitive instincts continuing after 60 years of development and spending of thousands of Rupees in their name.  Disease: A failure of Governance.

2.      No delivery of the contraceptive supplies as technologies became available, leading to unmet demands and continuation of marginal lifestyle.  Disease: Again a failure of Governance, though crores and crores of Rupees were spent in their name and in the name of family planning programs.

3.      Total failure of Primary and secondary education among tribals and poor, leading to perpetuation of their marginal existence after 60 years of independence.  If these monies were properly spent and managed, not pilfered, things would have changed as is the experience elsewhere in the world.  Disease: Again a result of bad Governance.

Thus in my opinion, your remedy is worse than the disease.  The disease is “Bad Governance of the State”, as a result lack of upward mobility of life of a significant section of population in 60 plus years since independence.  And delivery of substandard primary and secondary education.  And you are recommend administering Army & Air Force action (Green Hunt)?. Which also means raising of special forces for hunting them down, resulting in large continued expenditure for a long time, instead of spending the money on Education and Health care.  It is not only the wrong medicine ( police and army action vs. development and education) but administering it to the wrong person(the tribal, instead of  the corruption ridden Govt at state and center). 

Would you not agree, that it will be irrational to expect that it will result in cure of the disease?  I wish they spent the same money in the same area for Education and people based development (based on their wishes, such as minor irrigation etc.)

 
Sandip K.Dasverma
2500 G. W. Way
Richland,
WA - 99354



From: Manoj Padhi <manojpadhi@...>
To: chhattisgarh-net@...
Cc: OTN <OrissaToday@googlegroups.com>; ORNET <ornet@...>
Sent: Sun, November 1, 2009 12:29:38 PM
Subject: OTN: Maoist Insurgency and Operation Blind Hunt in Lalgarh

Mr. Manas Cakrabarti is so blindsighted by Naxal love that he doesn't even realise the importance of 5 hours - the duration of train-jacking..
For an instance, one comes from USA for a scheduled high school reunion after 25 years, a once in life time opportunity and he misses that.
 
Some may have a connecting flight. few may have interviews. Some may be sick.
 
But, behind his levity,Mr. Manas Chakrabarty's  didn't see the fear ,trauma and inconvenience caused to passengers and their family members;he saw only the looting spree in the pantry car.
 
The naxal world is abound with so many adherents that they don't bother or don't care about the inconvenience caused to public;they only see that passengers are unharmed.
 
200 armed naxlites surrounded a train and to the naxal adherents - it appears to be a joke or fiction.
 
We the anti-naxals must not yield in our pursuit and create public opinion against the naxal shitheads, who don't understand - what was the importance of those 5 hours in each passenger's life.
  
This is the view of an Indian, not a Republican.
 
As a Republican, neither I am jealous about Ambanis not sorry  about the state of tribals, who acted irresponsibly and became BPPPPL**;I am a well wisher of all BPL farmers and tribals. We are born with our own destiny , make our own decisions, do hard work and live with the good or bad consequences. If a tribal or an Odisha farmer, who committed suicide decides to go for 4 kids, without owning any land or any steady income, that was his choice to remain poor for generations, like (nuclear) poor fission. Why blame Republicans because they don't want to redistribute/waste  our wealth (tax) on a section of people, who reproduced irresponsibly ?
 
What life they can give to their 4 kids by being alive or committing suicide ?
 
Tribal advocates fighting for their cause - can they please let the readers know - what is the average number of kids in a tribal family ?
 
When engineers working in metros and making Rs. 50,000 per month go for 1 or 2 kids, why the farmers and tribals are going for 4 kids without any income ? Because Rs. 2/- kg rice is available  at tax payers money, which otherwise would have utilized on the salary of a primary education teacher.
 
Next birth, I may be a farmer or tribal; there is nothing wrong to be  tribal. but instead of accepting their BPL status, when they become jealous about the VIPs of Rajdhani Express,under the bad influence of communist ideology, there is a serious problem out there.
 
**If a landless tribal family with 1 kid is poor and called BPL, then what you will call a tibal family with 4 kids- BPPPPL.
 
Please think, why a Republican has to be blamed for the three additional 'P's.

हम बोलेगा तो बोलोगे के बोलता है

Manoj Padhi


 
On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:09 PM, Kundan Kumar <kumarkun@...> wrote:
Its good to have a genuine representative of the Republican Right from USA
in our midst. Maybe some upper caste NROs are a good fit for that political
grouping, given the commonalities between racism and casteism (with
apologies to some other UC NROs who actually seem to lean democratic).

Aapke jaise hi ek Bharatiya bhai ki chithi padhiye, khatarnak maoist leader
Kishenji ke naam (the Orissa connection through the BBSR Rajdhani). Yeh
adivasi log to "losers" hain. Aapko accha lagega - unfortunately "drone
wars" ki baat nahi likhi hai inhone. Maybe you can write about that.

Kundan

http://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/columnsothers/State-of-the-enemy/Article1-471400.aspx

*State of the Enemy*

*Manas Chakraborty*

Your latest outrage in targeting the Rajdhani Express has crossed all
limits. As long as you hijacked some train that travelled from the
back-of-beyond to some other equally godforsaken place, we didn�t really
care. Losers travel by those trains. But this time you unwisely picked on a
VIP train going to New Delhi.

Some of us might have had friends and relations on that train. They may have
been killed, kidnapped, or at the very least, looted. After all, passengers
get looted on some train or the other almost every week. That you didn�t do
any of these things is due to the sheer stupidity of your tribal followers.
All those guys took away was food from the pantry car and blankets, the
fools.

So you want to pick a fight with us? You have no idea what you�re getting
yourself into. A recent study said 2 million kids die every year in India
due to entirely preventable causes � malnutrition, diarrhoea, neo-natal
diseases. That�s two million children of your kind of people, the kind who
might support you. We achieved that without even trying, through mere
neglect. And we did it democratically, of course. Who needs a war? Imagine
what we could do if we really wanted to hurt them. And don�t think our
children will be affected � they aren�t born under city flyovers, don�t live
in fetid hovels and stinking slums and unlike the dead millions, *they will
grow up and go to America.*

Robbing pantry cars is not going to help. The Global Hunger Index says that
240 million of the country�s population go to bed hungry every night. We�ve
accomplished that just by looking the other way. Just think what we could do
if we actually wanted them to go hungry. And it�s not going to affect us �
our supermarkets will still overflow with exotic foods from every corner of
the globe. Your people are welcome to press their noses against the glass
and watch us shop.

So you want to fight, eh? You�ve killed 6000 people in the last 12 years,
mainly poor policemen and villagers. You think that�s something? Why, the
number of farmers committing suicide in the last 12 years is around 200,000.
Just ask the human rights people how many of your supporters we and our
organisations like Salwa Judum have killed or rounded up. In Kashmir, we�ve
walloped terrorists armed to the teeth and backed by Pakistan. And you guys
don�t even have rocket launchers. You are dead meat.

You know these facts as well as we do. All we�re saying is don�t incite
these poor sods to rebel. We�ve kept them firmly under our thumbs for
centuries with scarcely any trouble. Besides, we also have a soft side.
We�ve given them democracy. Once we get rid of you, we might even take their
lands and develop them. See how well we�ve developed the mines in Jharkhand.
Some of them might soon be listed on the stock exchange.

We�ll also start some social programmes. We plan to reduce the number of
kids who die every year, maybe to 1.5 million in a couple of years, then
down to a million in another decade and pretty soon we�ll have, say, only
half a million children dying per annum. That�s progress. You, on the other
hand, are anti-poor and anti-development. We will bury you.

*Manas Chakravarty is Consulting Editor, Mint*

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Manoj Padhi <manojpadhi@...> wrote:

> http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/pakistan/04-Questions-of-sovereignty-qs-08
>
> Naxlite sympthasizers may read the above article.
> Quote:
> Excerpts..
>
> It was heartrending to hear a bedraggled man wail on TV the other day: 'The
> Taliban kill us on the ground and Pakistan from the air. What is our sin
> and
> where should we go?'
>
> The extremists at home pose a constant threat to our sovereignty.
>
> UnQuote:
>
> Tribals are also caught between Naxlites and Operation Green hunt.
>
> Tribals have to forget the sovereignty of their tribal land or (invasion
> of ) tribal privacy because their friend Naxlites are creating trouble for
> non-tribals. They are welcome to create trouble in their friends village..
> but if they cross that boundary and attack civilians/police, Chidambaram's
> drones will take care of them.
>
> It seems that our activist friends are not learning any thing from
> Pakistanis...
>
> Thanks
> Manoj Padhi


Thu Nov 5, 2009 1:33 am

sandip.kumar.dasverma@...
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #733 of 743 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Dear Manoj babu: Thanks for your bold assertion that you are a Republican, when only 20% people today in America, say that they are Republicans, this...
Sandip Dasverma
sandip.kumar.dasverma...
Send Email
Nov 5, 2009
1:21 pm
Advanced

Copyright 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help