Hello Kio, and Hans, if I may contribute some small part to this subject on
the ill temper, and while we are at it, inappropriate behavior, of a so called
master meditation teacher.

I personally think the claim that a teacher can behave badly for the good of
his or her students, I believe, is a very slippery slope to walk on. It means
that the Brahma viharas can be ignored and a 96 year old Zen masters can go
on seducing his 20 something students with impunity. Not to mention swamis who
collect Rolls Royces not to mention perpetrating physical abuse, as well as
bazaar and demeaning sexual practices upon their students, and claiming "crazy"
wisdom to get away with it.

Sorry, I don't buy crazy wisdom at all. I cannot find one example in the
literature that seems to be an unquestionably clear case of authentic wisdom,
including the case of Marpa the Translator.

I believe the Brahma Viharas/Bodichita are examples of the "evidence" of
enlightenment. If a teacher does not manifest the qualities of patience,
compassion, generosity, loving kindness and equanimity, then he or she is
probably not
enlightened, regardless of how many millions of beings caught in dukkha claim
otherwise.

I spent 10 years in service to Swami Amar Jyoti, who was found out later to
have been seducing the wives of his disciples, and asking them to lie to the
their friends and husbands about their relationship with him, from the very
beginning of his work here in the USA. While Amar Jyoti had many attributes
that
made being his student a very enlightening experience, his lack of ethics
certainly indicate to me he was most definitely not enlightened, not to mention
a
great disappointment, because I cannot now claim him as a teacher and feel
good about it.

Best to you,

Jeff

In a message dated 8/13/03 7:29:20 PM, suzaki@... writes:

<< Just one point on Zen master, the anger issue you pointed, is an
interesting one. I can see here the distinction between Bodhisattva
and Arahat. We do not need to get into the heavy discussion here,
but one way I see is that they may get angry when the student is not
progressing. (hence, the master appears to be on this side shore)
Momentarily, that state may look unwholesome from outside, but as
your pointed in your few last questions to yourself, where you put
the boundary may be the question. In Zen master's mind, they view
this world is the other world anyway.

The other example related to this is from the talk of Mr. Goenka.
He said, U ba kin often scolded students with his big voice, shaking
the whole center building, only to return to Mr. Goenka with big
smile on his face. So, with practice, they can possibly be
equanimous. And if not, they can come back to that state very
quickly. Now having said that, I do not know of any Roshi's long
enough to say how developed they are in such a practice. >>