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CALENDAR WALLPAPERS FOR FEBRUARY

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>>From: av jain <koolsmart2002@...>
>>To: myself@yahoogroups.com
>>Subject: <JainNet> Are we vegetarian When we consume Ghee, Varak, Silk?
>>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:33:00 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:
>>
>>  How many of us are pure vegetarian?
>>  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees, our
>>gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really feel
>>like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who
>>is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many
>>times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen
>>tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas , atthai
>>etc. But have we  thought how many calves we kill
>>while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
>>innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die day
>>by day even without a drop of milk right from  the
>>moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful
>>death which a new born calve faces for weeks  together
>>before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and  parna
>>with bucket of Ghee served to you.
>>
>>    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will
>>  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person
>>   or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares, today
>>we have  forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.  I
>>feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are much
>>  better  than we jains who don't even use leather
>>belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea
>>with
>>  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going to do
>>that. Our  society has become total hypocracy and
>>chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made
>>themselves
>>commericial and busy engraving their name on stones
>>  with public fund. They run their own shops in their
>>  own way rather than uniting and leading a proper
>>  social movement.
>>
>>  Regards
>>
>

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Hello,

I see that the writer of the following note is rather raged.

Hypocrisy has been an age-old concern.  I see many people upset about it, and I
am starting to doubt their intentions. I hope they are addressing such issues
to resolve them.

I realize that we have heard a few bad examples of gurus lately, but I strongly
believe that most of our gurus do not adopt the life of such harshness for
fame. I have not seen any of them indulging in materialistic pleasures in my
limited exposure to them. I see them walking on hot surface bare feet and
having their head "loch".  They serve a good purpose to our society, to guide
us. But they are still human beings and have limitations.

As per being Hypocrite – I think we, as Shravaks, are taught to do as much as
possible. It is not possible to live life without hurting another life form.
That is why we ask for forgiveness in pratikaman and samayak. I have never seen
a dying calf, but wouldn't they want to keep them alive? If you stretch the
concept of "jivdaya" to extreme, you'd have to stop breathing.

What is Pure Vegetarianism? I don't think it's mere dietary concept.

Please address the issues with constructive intentions.

Jainik

--- Jain Pathshala <jainpathshala@...> wrote:
>
> >>From: av jain <koolsmart2002@...>
> >>To: myself@yahoogroups.com
> >>Subject: <JainNet> Are we vegetarian When we consume Ghee, Varak, Silk?
> >>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:33:00 -0800 (PST)
> >>
> >>How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:
> >>
> >>  How many of us are pure vegetarian?
> >>  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees, our
> >>gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really feel
> >>like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who
> >>is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many
> >>times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen
> >>tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas , atthai
> >>etc. But have we  thought how many calves we kill
> >>while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
> >>innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die day
> >>by day even without a drop of milk right from  the
> >>moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful
> >>death which a new born calve faces for weeks  together
> >>before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and  parna
> >>with bucket of Ghee served to you.
> >>
> >>    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will
> >>  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person
> >>   or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares, today
> >>we have  forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.  I
> >>feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are much
> >>  better  than we jains who don't even use leather
> >>belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea
> >>with
> >>  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going to do
> >>that. Our  society has become total hypocracy and
> >>chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made
> >>themselves
> >>commericial and busy engraving their name on stones
> >>  with public fund. They run their own shops in their
> >>  own way rather than uniting and leading a proper
> >>  social movement.
> >>
> >>  Regards
> >>
> >
>
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Vegetarianism is literally, the practice of subsisting on a diet composed
primarily or wholly of vegetables, grains, fruits, nuts, and seeds, with or
without eggs and dairy products.  It has nothing to do with using silk or ghee. 
Vegetarianism is not the essence of Jainism.  Before you critizise others, gurus
or anyone else, you must be perfect yourself.  I know I am not perfect, but I
also doubt anyone is.  The main concept of Jainism, as I have understood it is
non-violence.  That is to be carried out to whatever degree you care to carry it
out until.  The majority of us consider that being vegetarian, but that also has
other considerations.  Just because you are vegetarian, or don't use leather or
silk, that doesn't mean that anyone who uses ghee, or wears silk is any less
Jain.  No one is stopping you from leading a "proper social movement".  I just
think that before you critique others, critique yourself.


~Questioning Teen



-- av jain <koolsmart2002@...> wrote:
How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:

  How many of us are pure vegetarian?
  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees, our
gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really feel
like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who
is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many
times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen
tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas , atthai
etc. But have we  thought how many calves we kill
while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die day
by day even without a drop of milk right from  the
moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful
death which a new born calve faces for weeks  together
before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and  parna
with bucket of Ghee served to you.

    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will
  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person
   or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares, today
we have  forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.  I
feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are much
  better  than we jains who don't even use leather
belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea
with
  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going to do
that. Our  society has become total hypocracy and
chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made
themselves
commericial and busy engraving their name on stones
  with public fund. They run their own shops in their
  own way rather than uniting and leading a proper
  social movement.

  Regards



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Jai Jinendra!

Thank you for using JainNet to communicate your thoughts and concerns
related to Jain matters. For your benefits, JainNet has many good
Jain bookmarks (links) on this Yahooo group. Thanks to one JainNet
member, who told us to clean up were some unsolicited and
inappropriate bookmarks on this Yahoo group.

We cleaned those bookmarks and we made a tough choice to take that
privillege away from public. If you like to see a new Jain link or
bookmark be posted on JainNet Yahoo group, please send us an email to
JainNet@yahoogroups.com and we will post it for you.

Thank you for your considerations and cooperation.
Regards.
Yogesh Shah
JainNet, mederator

Jai Jinendra,

    This is a reply specifically to AV jain. Kindly pardon me if my reply hurts your sentiments, as I don't intend to hurt anyone.

 

It was very smart of you to send a cool definition of acronym for JAIN - Justice, Affection, Introspection and Nobility.

 

But probably the very next mail shattered all my expectations. You should have done some introspection before you sent an email like the one that you sent. It’s probably your ignorance that made you forward/ write down such an email.

 

Why do you think was a huge campaign ‘Information on vegetarian food’ started in California? The whole essence of the campaign is to educate people and no hypocrisy involved. Many people (jains to be precise) have long back stopped eating milk products and the edible stuff with ‘varak’ and many ladies, whom I know personally, haven’t bought a silk saree in last 10 years and have vowed not to buy silk for the coming ten years.

 

Believe me, the concept of educating people and helping them become aware of the facts, will be more effective if the person who is practicing a vow advocates and encourages others to practice it. So rather than sending a outcry and losing hope, make sure that you pass on the information and even if a few people put to practice what they hear and then further pass on the information, I am confident that the JAIN dharm will flourish and we shall see success in a long run.

  

Just as Komal vora did on the JCSC group, ‘I would request everybody to exchange information and pass it on to all our Jain friends or even better if somebody could volunteer to make a list of foods to avoid which are projected as vegetarian food’.

 

I sincerely hope that you can understand the situation and don't get carried away by what people just say, without actually meaning it. Try not to get influenced by those who do not to see, hear, understand or know what they know, understand, hear and see.

NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING.

 

Have a nice day.

 

Regards,

Asha Modi.

(I had seen the JAIN acronym at http://www.acronymfinder.com)

 

--

A few messages that motivate me -

1. "If he is willing to kill, then he must be prepared to die. It is only right."

2. "If you stand straight, do not fear a crooked shadow."

3. "Lying is done with words and also with silence."

4. "Do right, fear no man."

5. "Men whose acts are at variance with their words command no respect and what they say has but little weight."

6. “Just because another person’s interpretation is different, doesn't mean he is wrong.”

 

But I am still contemplating, what exactly the following lines mean –

“You cannot see what I see because you see what you see. You cannot know what I know because you know what you know. What I see and what I know cannot be added to what you see and what you know as they are not of the same kind. What I see and what I know cannot replace what you see and what you know because that would be to replace you yourself.”

 

 Have a Nice Day :)

 

--- In JainNet@yahoogroups.com, av jain <koolsmart2002@y...> wrote:

> How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:

>

>  How many of us are pure vegetarian?

>  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees, our

> gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really feel

> like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who

> is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many

> times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen

> tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas , atthai

> etc. But have we  thought how many calves we kill

> while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many

> innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die day

> by day even without a drop of milk right from  the

> moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful

> death which a new born calve faces for weeks  together

> before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and  parna

> with bucket of Ghee served to you.

>

>    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will

>  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person

>   or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares, today

> we have  forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.  I

> feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are much

>  better  than we jains who don't even use leather

> belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea

> with

>  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going to do

> that. Our  society has become total hypocracy and

> chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made

> themselves

> commericial and busy engraving their name on stones

>  with public fund. They run their own shops in their

>  own way rather than uniting and leading a proper

>  social movement.

> 

>  Regards

> 

>

>

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!!!!! Jai Jinendra !!!!!

Please recycle this message and send it to everyone who you think will benefit from it! 

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So you mean to say all jains can use varak, silk
sarees and milk out of crying calves?


Jai jinedra, It looks like you want to keep your point
over my point. It seems you are more ignorant of fact
that our Indian circumstances are not so good today.
People are fast converting into non-vegetarianism,
Everyhouse hold in India has silk sarees and every
Jain is using varak barring few. And there is hardly
any message from our gurus on these issues. Rather our
gurus are more interested in making their famedom,
ofcourse they do lot of tapasya , but nothing to guide
our samaj. Today Christians are increasing and jains
are decreasing.   what your expectations are
shattered.  I know jainism devoids ego and you seems
to have more ego and more projected views among your
own circle say in America. But we Jains in india are
not in right direction as Americans, we don't feel
proud jains any more!!!  What you would like to say
about the future of Jainism, already jainism is on the
verge of disappearing in Tamilnadu, Kerala, East
India. Can we or our Gurus stop that. Yes we make lot
of new temples but are we bothered about old heritage
we had. are we ready to question people who
constructed mosque or hindu temples over jain temples.
Simply being mute spectator, getting slapped on face
and talking of ahimsa wouldn't let us survive. Hope
you get the message, I too don't want to heart any
one, but the trend, hypocracy in Jainism is so bad
today that, I hardly find any future of Jainism.

Good day.

--- Jainik <jainik@...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I see that the writer of the following note is
> rather raged.
>
> Hypocrisy has been an age-old concern.  I see many
> people upset about it, and I
> am starting to doubt their intentions. I hope they
> are addressing such issues
> to resolve them.
>
> I realize that we have heard a few bad examples of
> gurus lately, but I strongly
> believe that most of our gurus do not adopt the life
> of such harshness for
> fame. I have not seen any of them indulging in
> materialistic pleasures in my
> limited exposure to them. I see them walking on hot
> surface bare feet and
> having their head "loch".  They serve a good purpose
> to our society, to guide
> us. But they are still human beings and have
> limitations.
>
> As per being Hypocrite – I think we, as Shravaks,
> are taught to do as much as
> possible. It is not possible to live life without
> hurting another life form.
> That is why we ask for forgiveness in pratikaman and
> samayak. I have never seen
> a dying calf, but wouldn't they want to keep them
> alive? If you stretch the
> concept of "jivdaya" to extreme, you'd have to stop
> breathing.
>
> What is Pure Vegetarianism? I don't think it's mere
> dietary concept.
>
> Please address the issues with constructive
> intentions.
>
> Jainik
>
> --- Jain Pathshala <jainpathshala@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > >>From: av jain <koolsmart2002@...>
> > >>To: myself@yahoogroups.com
> > >>Subject: <JainNet> Are we vegetarian When we
> consume Ghee, Varak, Silk?
> > >>Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:33:00 -0800 (PST)
> > >>
> > >>How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:
> > >>
> > >>  How many of us are pure vegetarian?
> > >>  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees,
> our
> > >>gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really
> feel
> > >>like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But
> who
> > >>is bothered? I have put forward this issue so
> many
> > >>times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have
> seen
> > >>tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas ,
> atthai
> > >>etc. But have we  thought how many calves we
> kill
> > >>while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
> > >>innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die
> day
> > >>by day even without a drop of milk right from
> the
> > >>moment of their birth, Have you seen such
> painful
> > >>death which a new born calve faces for weeks
> together
> > >>before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and
> parna
> > >>with bucket of Ghee served to you.
> > >>
> > >>    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they
> will
> > >>  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good
> person
> > >>   or not a social man. Hell with it , who
> cares, today
> > >>we have  forgot the very meaning of
> vegetarianism.  I
> > >>feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are
> much
> > >>  better  than we jains who don't even use
> leather
> > >>belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of
> tea
> > >>with
> > >>  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going
> to do
> > >>that. Our  society has become total hypocracy
> and
> > >>chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made
> > >>themselves
> > >>commericial and busy engraving their name on
> stones
> > >>  with public fund. They run their own shops in
> their
> > >>  own way rather than uniting and leading a
> proper
> > >>  social movement.
> > >>
> > >>  Regards
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
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> Extra Storage!  Learn more.
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>
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> >
> > !!!!! Jai Jinendra !!!!!
> >
> > Please recycle this message and send it to
> everyone who you think will
> > benefit from it!
> >
> > If you have something which is in the best
> interests of Jainism or worthy of
> > appealing to the masses, please feel free to post
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>
> =====
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> without science is blind. **
> ** the path is the destination and the destination
> is hidden in the path as the creator is hidden in
> the creation. **
>
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> who you think will benefit from it!
>
> If you have something which is in the best interests
> of Jainism or worthy of appealing to the masses,
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> worldwide coverage.  Try to include your message in
> the
=== message truncated ===

--- nanima shah <loveneelu@...> wrote:
> Jai Jinendra
> I am 100% with Asha Modi's reply. I think by
> drinking cow's milk we are not killing them. If so
> why do we at all feed our infants when necessary
> with so called milk,ghee etc.I would only want to
> repeat what Asha Modi's end part of email projected.
>
> Thanks and be kind to everyone
> Jai Jinendra
>
> Modi <ashamodi@...> wrote:
>
> Jai Jinendra,
>
>     This is a reply specifically to AV jain. Kindly
> pardon me if my reply hurts your sentiments, as I
> don't intend to hurt anyone.
>
>
>
> It was very smart of you to send a cool definition
> of acronym for JAIN - Justice, Affection,
> Introspection and Nobility.
>
>
>
> But probably the very next mail shattered all my
> expectations. You should have done some
> introspection before you sent an email like the one
> that you sent. It’s probably your ignorance that
> made you forward/ write down such an email.
>
>
>
> Why do you think was a huge campaign ‘Information on
> vegetarian food’ started in California? The whole
> essence of the campaign is to educate people and no
> hypocrisy involved. Many people (jains to be
> precise) have long back stopped eating milk products
> and the edible stuff with ‘varak’ and many ladies,
> whom I know personally, haven’t bought a silk saree
> in last 10 years and have vowed not to buy silk for
> the coming ten years.
>
>
>
> Believe me, the concept of educating people and
> helping them become aware of the facts, will be more
> effective if the person who is practicing a vow
> advocates and encourages others to practice it. So
> rather than sending a outcry and losing hope, make
> sure that you pass on the information and even if a
> few people put to practice what they hear and then
> further pass on the information, I am confident that
> the JAIN dharm will flourish and we shall see
> success in a long run.
>
>
>
> Just as Komal vora did on the JCSC group, ‘I would
> request everybody to exchange information and pass
> it on to all our Jain friends or even better if
> somebody could volunteer to make a list of foods to
> avoid which are projected as vegetarian food’.
>
>
>
> I sincerely hope that you can understand the
> situation and don't get carried away by what people
> just say, without actually meaning it. Try not to
> get influenced by those who do not to see, hear,
> understand or know what they know, understand, hear
> and see.
>
> NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING.
>
>
>
> Have a nice day.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Asha Modi.
>
> (I had seen the JAIN acronym at
> http://www.acronymfinder.com)
>
>
>
> --
>
> A few messages that motivate me -
>
> 1. "If he is willing to kill, then he must be
> prepared to die. It is only right."
>
> 2. "If you stand straight, do not fear a crooked
> shadow."
>
> 3. "Lying is done with words and also with silence."
>
> 4. "Do right, fear no man."
>
> 5. "Men whose acts are at variance with their words
> command no respect and what they say has but little
> weight."
>
> 6. “Just because another person’s interpretation is
> different, doesn't mean he is wrong.”
>
>
>
> But I am still contemplating, what exactly the
> following lines mean –
>
> “You cannot see what I see because you see what you
> see. You cannot know what I know because you know
> what you know. What I see and what I know cannot be
> added to what you see and what you know as they are
> not of the same kind. What I see and what I know
> cannot replace what you see and what you know
> because that would be to replace you yourself.”
>
>
>
>  Have a Nice Day :)
>
>
>
> --- In JainNet@yahoogroups.com, av jain
> <koolsmart2002@y...> wrote:
>
> > How can we call ourselves  Pure Vegetarian:
>
> >
>
> >  How many of us are pure vegetarian?
>
> >  Many women are  pride of buying silk sarees, our
>
> > gurus-temples allow  us to use varak. I really
> feel
>
> > like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who
>
> > is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many
>
> > times  to  Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen
>
> > tonnes of  Ghee  going in Parna after upvas ,
> atthai
>
> > etc. But have we  thought how many calves we kill
>
> > while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
>
> > innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die
> day
>
> > by day even without a drop of milk right from  the
>
>
> > moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful
>
> > death which a new born calve faces for weeks
> together
>
> > before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and
> parna
>
> > with bucket of Ghee served to you.
>
> >
>
> >    I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will
>
> >  outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person
>
> >   or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares,
> today
>
> > we have  forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.
>  I
>
> > feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are
> much
>
> >  better  than we jains who don't even use leather
>
> > belts,  leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea
>
> > with
>
> >  non-dairy  creamer. How many of us are going to
> do
>
> > that. Our  society has become total hypocracy and
>
> > chaos due to  the facts that our gurus have made
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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Jai jinedra.
You look like only a person can talk from your
desktop,
I do not expect such lectures from you. I know more
than what you know. But my question to you is what you
have protest about my writings and what you are trying
to convey to everyone. It would be ideal if you stick
to issues than to your own lectures. There are many
who can just talk and harp but nothing to contribute,
that is how we are getting devided and devided and
limiting ourselves on common issues.

what I have suggested is only that we Jains should
stop using varak, the ghee which we relish is taking
life of so many calves. if you have not seen or heard
then you are only your table worm, try to see the
world beyond your house, you will know the reality.
for more infor visit

www.goveg.com
all-creatures.org

We jains are only for name sake jains, we take no
efforts in remaining jains, we teach our next
generation to go to christian schools and forget our
heritage, for which people like us (including you) are
responsible, who do not want to accept the fact at
first stage, secondly do not want to act, and thirdly
who act , are also criticized.

I am strong believer that our gurus today have nothing
to contribute to sustain jainism for another few
decades. the fate will be known soon if such trend is
still continued.

Any way you are entitled for your own opinion in your
own way. Please do not reply anymore, as I don't argue
with people who are not practical and ofcourse no time
for that. It is better I spend some time for good
cause, most of my american friends are vegetarian who
do not use even leather wallet. Many I made them
vegetarian just by showing them somepictures of
butcher houses, they have heart. But we jains even if
we see a dieing calf we are least bothered. All we
bothered is a cup of milk, let it come from a dieing
soul. and for which we human being are responsible.

Good luck , have a nice day.
--- Modi wrote:
> Jai Jinendra,
> OK. First things first.
> Are we talking about the situation in India? In that
> case I never heard of any calf death there because
> they were undernourished or to be more precise,
> because the cow that gave birth was over exploited
> to such a gross extent. These kinds of issues were
> unheard of in India.
>
> Didn’t I suggest you not to make any assumptions?! –
> I repeat: ‘NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING’
>
> To tell you the facts – I live in Hyderabad and am
> very close to what is going on in southern India. My
> brother is in US and keeps me updated with the JAINA
> activities in US.
>
> We have seen people converting to non vegetarianism,
> because the people of our generation don’t seem to
> have sufficient faith in the Jain ‘value system’ and
> just to revolt against that they might be getting
> converted.
>
> Jainism has more to it than just being vegetarian.
> The essence of Jainism is concern for the welfare of
> every being (inclusive of animals and plants) in the
> universe and for the health of the universe itself.
> So Jains are strict vegetarians and live in a way
> that minimizes their use of the world's resources.
> (This is a modernist way of looking at it, and not
> the way it's expressed in Jain scripture.)
>
> Every Jain is expected to follow the Jain ethical
> code – inclusive of, but not limited to,
>
> 1. Right faith - Samyak darshana
> This doesn't mean believing what you're told, but
> means seeing (hearing, feeling, etc.) things
> properly, and avoiding preconceptions and
> superstitions that get in the way of seeing clearly.
> Some books call samyak darshana "right perception".
> You can't achieve this unless you are determined to
> find the truth, and distinguish it from untruth.
>
> 2. Right knowledge - Samyak gyan
> This means having an accurate and sufficient
> knowledge of the real universe - this requires a
> true knowledge of the five (or six) substances and
> nine truths of the universe - and having that
> knowledge with the right mental attitude.
> One may put it like this: "if our character is
> flawed and our conscience is not clear, knowledge
> alone will not help us achieve composure and
> happiness".
>
> 3. Right conduct - Samyak charitra
> This means living your life according to Jain
> principles, to avoid doing harm to living things and
> freeing yourself from attachment and other impure
> attitudes and thoughts.
> Jains believe that a person who has right faith and
> right knowledge will be motivated and able to
> achieve right conduct.
>
> Many Jains believe that a person without right faith
> and right knowledge cannot achieve right conduct -
> so it's no use following scripture and ritual for
> the wrong reasons (e.g. so that other people will
> think you are a good person). Not all people, be it
> in India or anywhere in the world, hold this view.
>
> Don’t be callous & inconsiderate.
>
> You might have had some bitter experiences. Always
> remember you have the right to choose your faith &
> guru and follow what seems right to you. This world
> is full of charlatans. But I am confident that
> finding such a case is rare among our gurus.
>
> But even gurus are human, and will guide only a
> person who has good perception (patrata). You can’t
> persistently and incessantly push someone in a
> direction, if he is not willing to move that way.
> After a while, you tend to give up!
>
> Secondly, you speak of christianity. The basic
> concept is same. Even they have faith in whatever
> they do and they do it religiously. I have read the
> ‘Gospel’ and the ‘New Testament’. They believe in
> ‘to love God and to love their neighbour’.
>
> Thirdly, speaking of heritage. Believe me nobody
> will dare to ruin a temple that’s in use. All the
> temples that were shattered in Tamil Nadu were
> abandoned long back. So its all up to the community.
> It’s you who must take the initiative to preserve
> the world around you.
>
> I hope I have made my points clear.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> ---
>
> Thought for the day:
> Jainism is well-known to non-Jains because of its
> strict principle of non-violence (ahimsa); the
> supreme principle of Jain living; one of the 5
> mahavratas (the 5 great vows). The other mahavratas
> are non-attachment to possessions, not lying, not
> stealing, and sexual continence restraint (with
> celibacy as the ideal).
> We must do our best to leave an everlasting
> impression on the ‘non-jains’. I would suggest –
> ‘practice & preach’. Do the best you can.
>
> References:
> http://www.sacred-texts.com/jai/index.htm - you may
> also read on other religions.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/jainism/ -
> BBC - Religion & Ethics
> http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/jaingloss.html
> - Glossary of Jain words
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Asha
>
>
>
> av jain wrote:
> Jai jinedra, It looks like you want to keep your
> point
> over my point. It seems you are more ignorant of
> fact
> that our Indian circumstances are not so good today.
> People are fast converting into non-vegetarianism,
> Everyhouse hold in India has silk sarees and every
> Jain is using varak barring few. And there is hardly
> any message from our gurus on these issues. Rather
> our
> gurus are more interested in making their famedom,
> ofcourse they do lot of tapasya , but nothing to
> guide
> our samaj. Today Christians are increasing and jains
> are decreasing. what your expectations are
> shattered. I know jainism devoids ego and you seems
> to have more ego and more projected views among your
> own circle say in America. But we Jains in india are
> not in right direction as Americans, we don't feel
> proud jains any more!!! What you would like to say
> about the future of Jainism, already jainism is on
> the
> verge of disappearing in Tamilnadu, Kerala, East
> India. Can we or our Gurus stop that. Yes we make
> lot
> of new temples but are we bothered about old
> heritage
> we had. are we ready to question people who
> constructed mosque or hindu temples over jain
> temples.
> Simply being mute spectator, getting slapped on face
> and talking of ahimsa wouldn't let us survive. Hope
> you get the message, I too don't want to heart any
> one, but the trend, hypocracy in Jainism is so bad
> today that, I hardly find any future of Jainism.
>
> Good day.
>
> --- Modi wrote:
> >
> > Jai Jinendra,
> >
> > This is a reply specifically to AV jain. Kindly
> > pardon me if my reply hurts your sentiments, as I
> > don't intend to hurt anyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > It was very smart of you to send a cool definition
> > of acronym for JAIN - Justice, Affection,
> > Introspection and Nobility.
> >
> >
> >
> > But probably the very next mail shattered all my
> > expectations. You should have done some
> > introspection before you sent an email like the
> one
> > that you sent. It’s probably your ignorance that
> > made you forward/ write down such an email.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why do you think was a huge campaign ‘Information
> on
> > vegetarian food’ started in California? The whole
> > essence of the campaign is to educate people and
> no
> > hypocrisy involved. Many people (jains to be
> > precise) have long back stopped eating milk
> products
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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Jai jinedra, It looks like you want to keep your point
over my point. It seems you are more ignorant of fact
that our Indian circumstances are not so good today.
People are fast converting into non-vegetarianism,
Everyhouse hold in India has silk sarees and every
Jain is using varak barring few. And there is hardly
any message from our gurus on these issues. Rather our
gurus are more interested in making their famedom,
ofcourse they do lot of tapasya , but nothing to guide
our samaj. Today Christians are increasing and jains
are decreasing. what your expectations are
shattered. I know jainism devoids ego and you seems
to have more ego and more projected views among your
own circle say in America. But we Jains in india are
not in right direction as Americans, we don't feel
proud jains any more!!! What you would like to say
about the future of Jainism, already jainism is on the
verge of disappearing in Tamilnadu, Kerala, East
India. Can we or our Gurus stop that. Yes we make lot
of new temples but are we bothered about old heritage
we had. are we ready to question people who
constructed mosque or hindu temples over jain temples.
Simply being mute spectator, getting slapped on face
and talking of ahimsa wouldn't let us survive. Hope
you get the message, I too don't want to heart any
one, but the trend, hypocracy in Jainism is so bad
today that, I hardly find any future of Jainism.

Good day.

--- Modi wrote:
>
> Jai Jinendra,
>
> This is a reply specifically to AV jain. Kindly
> pardon me if my reply hurts your sentiments, as I
> don't intend to hurt anyone.
>
>
>
> It was very smart of you to send a cool definition
> of acronym for JAIN - Justice, Affection,
> Introspection and Nobility.
>
>
>
> But probably the very next mail shattered all my
> expectations. You should have done some
> introspection before you sent an email like the one
> that you sent. It’s probably your ignorance that
> made you forward/ write down such an email.
>
>
>
> Why do you think was a huge campaign ‘Information on
> vegetarian food’ started in California? The whole
> essence of the campaign is to educate people and no
> hypocrisy involved. Many people (jains to be
> precise) have long back stopped eating milk products
> and the edible stuff with ‘varak’ and many ladies,
> whom I know personally, haven’t bought a silk saree
> in last 10 years and have vowed not to buy silk for
> the coming ten years.
>
>
>
> Believe me, the concept of educating people and
> helping them become aware of the facts, will be more
> effective if the person who is practicing a vow
> advocates and encourages others to practice it. So
> rather than sending a outcry and losing hope, make
> sure that you pass on the information and even if a
> few people put to practice what they hear and then
> further pass on the information, I am confident that
> the JAIN dharm will flourish and we shall see
> success in a long run.
>
>
>
> Just as Komal vora did on the JCSC group, ‘I would
> request everybody to exchange information and pass
> it on to all our Jain friends or even better if
> somebody could volunteer to make a list of foods to
> avoid which are projected as vegetarian food’.
>
>
>
> I sincerely hope that you can understand the
> situation and don't get carried away by what people
> just say, without actually meaning it. Try not to
> get influenced by those who do not to see, hear,
> understand or know what they know, understand, hear
> and see.
>
> NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING.
>
>
>
> Have a nice day.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Asha Modi.
>
> (I had seen the JAIN acronym at
> http://www.acronymfinder.com)
>
>
>
> --
>
> A few messages that motivate me -
>
> 1. "If he is willing to kill, then he must be
> prepared to die. It is only right."
>
> 2. "If you stand straight, do not fear a crooked
> shadow."
>
> 3. "Lying is done with words and also with silence."
>
> 4. "Do right, fear no man."
>
> 5. "Men whose acts are at variance with their words
> command no respect and what they say has but little
> weight."
>
> 6. “Just because another person’s interpretation is
> different, doesn't mean he is wrong.”
>
>
>
> But I am still contemplating, what exactly the
> following lines mean –
>
> “You cannot see what I see because you see what you
> see. You cannot know what I know because you know
> what you know. What I see and what I know cannot be
> added to what you see and what you know as they are
> not of the same kind. What I see and what I know
> cannot replace what you see and what you know
> because that would be to replace you yourself.”
>
>
>
> Have a Nice Day :)
>
>
>
> --- In JainNet@yahoogroups.com, av jain
> wrote:
>
> > How can we call ourselves Pure Vegetarian:
>
> >
>
> > How many of us are pure vegetarian?
>
> > Many women are pride of buying silk sarees, our
>
> > gurus-temples allow us to use varak. I really
> feel
>
> > like ashamed to see how hypocrats we are? But who
>
> > is bothered? I have put forward this issue so many
>
> > times to Gurus, but they don't care, I have seen
>
> > tonnes of Ghee going in Parna after upvas ,
> atthai
>
> > etc. But have we thought how many calves we kill
>
> > while consuming Ghee. Me indirectly murder many
>
> > innocent calves. Poor and unfortunate calves die
> day
>
> > by day even without a drop of milk right from the
>
>
> > moment of their birth, Have you seen such painful
>
> > death which a new born calve faces for weeks
> together
>
> > before it dies, and we enjoy doing navkarsi and
> parna
>
> > with bucket of Ghee served to you.
>
> >
>
> > I am sure our gurus, if I tell them , they will
>
> > outcaste me and tell that I am not a good person
>
> > or not a social man. Hell with it , who cares,
> today
>
> > we have forgot the very meaning of vegetarianism.
> I
>
> > feel > Americans who are newly turned vegans are
> much
>
> > better than we jains who don't even use leather
>
> > belts, leather shoes. They even have a cup of tea
>
> > with
>
> > non-dairy creamer. How many of us are going to
> do
>
> > that. Our society has become total hypocracy and
>
> > chaos due to the facts that our gurus have made
>
> > themselves
>
> > commericial and busy engraving their name on
> stones
>
> > with public fund. They run their own shops in
> their
>
> > own way rather than uniting and leading a proper
>
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Jai jinedra.
You look like only a person can talk from your
desktop,
I do not expect such lectures from you. I know more
than what you know. But my question to you is what you
have protest about my writings and what you are trying
to convey to everyone. It would be ideal if you stick
to issues than to your own lectures. There are many
who can just talk and harp but nothing to contribute,
that is how we are getting devided and devided  and
limiting ourselves on common issues.

what I have suggested is only that we Jains should
stop using varak, the ghee which we relish is taking
life of so many calves. if you have not seen or heard
then you are only your table worm, try to see the
world beyond your house, you will know the reality.
for more infor visit

www.goveg.com
all-creatures.org

We jains are only for name sake jains, we take no
efforts in remaining jains, we teach our next
generation to go to christian schools and forget our
heritage, for which people like us (including you) are
responsible, who do not want to accept the fact at
first stage, secondly do not want to act, and thirdly
who act , are also criticized.

I am strong believer that our gurus today have nothing
to contribute to sustain jainism for another few
decades. the fate will be known soon if such trend is
still continued.

Any way you are entitled for your own opinion in your
own way. Please do not reply anymore, as I don't argue
with people who are not practical and ofcourse no time
for that. It is better I spend some time for good
cause, most of my american friends are vegetarian who
do not use even leather wallet. Many I made them
vegetarian just by showing them somepictures of
butcher houses, they have heart. But we jains even if
we see a dieing calf we are least bothered. All we
bothered is a cup of milk, let it come from a dieing
soul. and for which we human being are responsible.

Good luck , have a nice day.
--- Modi <ashamodi@...> wrote:
> Jai Jinendra,
> OK. First things first.
> Are we talking about the situation in India? In that
> case I never heard of any calf death there because
> they were undernourished or to be more precise,
> because the cow that gave birth was over exploited
> to such a gross extent. These kinds of issues were
> unheard of in India.
>
> Didn’t I suggest you not to make any assumptions?! –
> I repeat: ‘NEVER ASSUME ANYTHING’
>
> To tell you the facts – I live in Hyderabad and am
> very close to what is going on in southern India. My
> brother is in US and keeps me updated with the JAINA
> activities in US.
>
> We have seen people converting to non vegetarianism,
> because the people of our generation don’t seem to
> have sufficient faith in the Jain ‘value system’ and
> just to revolt against that they might be getting
> converted.
>
> Jainism has more to it than just being vegetarian.
> The essence of Jainism is concern for the welfare of
> every being (inclusive of animals and plants) in the
> universe and for the health of the universe itself.
> So Jains are strict vegetarians and live in a way
> that minimizes their use of the world's resources.
> (This is a modernist way of looking at it, and not
> the way it's expressed in Jain scripture.)
>
> Every Jain is expected to follow the Jain ethical
> code – inclusive of, but not limited to,
>
> 1. Right faith - Samyak darshana
> This doesn't mean believing what you're told, but
> means seeing (hearing, feeling, etc.) things
> properly, and avoiding preconceptions and
> superstitions that get in the way of seeing clearly.
> Some books call samyak darshana "right perception".
> You can't achieve this unless you are determined to
> find the truth, and distinguish it from untruth.
>
> 2. Right knowledge - Samyak gyan
> This means having an accurate and sufficient
> knowledge of the real universe - this requires a
> true knowledge of the five (or six) substances and
> nine truths of the universe - and having that
> knowledge with the right mental attitude.
> One may put it like this: "if our character is
> flawed and our conscience is not clear, knowledge
> alone will not help us achieve composure and
> happiness".
>
> 3. Right conduct - Samyak charitra
> This means living your life according to Jain
> principles, to avoid doing harm to living things and
> freeing yourself from attachment and other impure
> attitudes and thoughts.
> Jains believe that a person who has right faith and
> right knowledge will be motivated and able to
> achieve right conduct.
>
> Many Jains believe that a person without right faith
> and right knowledge cannot achieve right conduct -
> so it's no use following scripture and ritual for
> the wrong reasons (e.g. so that other people will
> think you are a good person). Not all people, be it
> in India or anywhere in the world, hold this view.
>
> Don’t be callous & inconsiderate.
>
> You might have had some bitter experiences. Always
> remember you have the right to choose your faith &
> guru and follow what seems right to you. This world
> is full of charlatans. But I am confident that
> finding such a case is rare among our gurus.
>
> But even gurus are human, and will guide only a
> person who has good perception (patrata). You can’t
> persistently and incessantly push someone in a
> direction, if he is not willing to move that way.
> After a while, you tend to give up!
>
> Secondly, you speak of christianity. The basic
> concept is same. Even they have faith in whatever
> they do and they do it religiously. I have read the
> ‘Gospel’ and the ‘New Testament’. They believe in
> ‘to love God and to love their neighbour’.
>
> Thirdly, speaking of heritage. Believe me nobody
> will dare to ruin a temple that’s in use. All the
> temples that were shattered in Tamil Nadu were
> abandoned long back. So its all up to the community.
> It’s you who must take the initiative to preserve
> the world around you.
>
> I hope I have made my points clear.
>
> Have a nice day.
>
> ---
>
> Thought for the day:
> Jainism is well-known to non-Jains because of its
> strict principle of non-violence (ahimsa); the
> supreme principle of Jain living; one of the 5
> mahavratas (the 5 great vows). The other mahavratas
> are non-attachment to possessions, not lying, not
> stealing, and sexual continence restraint (with
> celibacy as the ideal).
>  We must do our best to leave an everlasting
> impression on the ‘non-jains’. I would suggest –
> ‘practice & preach’. Do the best you can.
>
> References:
> http://www.sacred-texts.com/jai/index.htm - you may
> also read on other religions.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/jainism/ -
> BBC - Religion & Ethics
> http://www.cs.colostate.edu/~malaiya/jaingloss.html
> - Glossary of Jain words
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Asha
>
>
>
> av jain <koolsmart2002@...> wrote:
> Jai jinedra, It looks like you want to keep your
> point
> over my point. It seems you are more ignorant of
> fact
> that our Indian circumstances are not so good today.
> People are fast converting into non-vegetarianism,
> Everyhouse hold in India has silk sarees and every
> Jain is using varak barring few. And there is hardly
> any message from our gurus on these issues. Rather
> our
> gurus are more interested in making their famedom,
> ofcourse they do lot of tapasya , but nothing to
> guide
> our samaj. Today Christians are increasing and jains
> are decreasing. what your expectations are
> shattered. I know jainism devoids ego and you seems
> to have more ego and more projected views among your
> own circle say in America. But we Jains in india are
> not in right direction as Americans, we don't feel
> proud jains any more!!! What you would like to say
> about the future of Jainism, already jainism is on
> the
> verge of disappearing in Tamilnadu, Kerala, East
> India. Can we or our Gurus stop that. Yes we make
> lot
> of new temples but are we bothered about old
> heritage
> we had. are we ready to question people who
> constructed mosque or hindu temples over jain
> temples.
> Simply being mute spectator, getting slapped on face
> and talking of ahimsa wouldn't let us survive. Hope
> you get the message, I too don't want to heart any
> one, but the trend, hypocracy in Jainism is so bad
> today that, I hardly find any future of Jainism.
>
> Good day.
>
> --- Modi wrote:
> >
> > Jai Jinendra,
> >
> > This is a reply specifically to AV jain. Kindly
> > pardon me if my reply hurts your sentiments, as I
> > don't intend to hurt anyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > It was very smart of you to send a cool definition
> > of acronym for JAIN - Justice, Affection,
> > Introspection and Nobility.
> >
> >
> >
> > But probably the very next mail shattered all my
> > expectations. You should have done some
> > introspection before you sent an email like the
> one
> > that you sent. It’s probably your ignorance that
> > made you forward/ write down such an email.
> >
> >
> >
> > Why do you think was a huge campaign ‘Information
> on
> > vegetarian food’ started in California? The whole
> > essence of the campaign is to educate people and
> no
> > hypocrisy involved. Many people (jains to be
> > precise) have long back stopped eating milk
> products
>
=== message truncated ===


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Sorry, this didn't go through to Jainnet this first time around:

----

Apologies to anyone who is tiring of hearing about this issue too many
times...it remains very relevant when considering how to apply principles
of non-violence.  At the same time, please understand that change comes
slowly, it shouldn't be forced, and one shouldn't hold everyone else to the
same standards that we practice.  One can only raise the awareness of
different points of view, and then leave it.

I'm attaching a presentation that addresses some of the questions about
dairy products from a Jain perspective.

Regards,
Vinit M. Doshi

(See attached file: The Question of Milk.ppt)

Hi,

Mr AV Jain: you can only request and not demand from people to follow your line of thought. Jains and Jainism have survived thousands of years and I am sure they will survive thousands more.

Mr Moderator: Please make sure that rhetoric mails are not posted to waste everybody's time. It can be in terms of gentle reminder or warning for stretching a debate too long.

Regards
Jinender Jain
P.S - Any jains in Malaysia ?


On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 av jain wrote :
>Jai jinedra.
>You look like only a person can talk from your
>desktop,
>I do not expect such lectures from you. I know more
>than what you know. But my question to you is what you
>have protest about my writings and what you are trying
>to convey to everyone. It would be ideal if you stick
>to issues than to your own lectures. There are many
>who can just talk and harp but nothing to contribute,
>that is how we are getting devided and devided  and
>limiting ourselves on common issues.
>
>what I have suggested is only that we Jains should
>stop using varak, the ghee which we relish is taking
>life of so many calves. if you have not seen or heard
>then you are only your table worm, try to see the
>world beyond your house, you will know the reality.
>for more infor visit
>
>www.goveg.com
>all-creatures.org
>
>We jains are only for name sake jains, we take no
>efforts in remaining jains, we teach our next
>generation to go to christian schools and forget our
>heritage, for which people like us (including you) are
>responsible, who do not want to accept the fact at
>first stage, secondly do not want to act, and thirdly
>who act , are also criticized.
>
>I am strong believer that our gurus today have nothing
>to contribute to sustain jainism for another few
>decades. the fate will be known soon if such trend is
>still continued.
>
>Any way you are entitled for your own opinion in your
>own way. Please do not reply anymore, as I don't argue
>with people who are not practical and ofcourse no time
>for that. It is better I spend some time for good
>cause, most of my american friends are vegetarian who
>do not use even leather wallet. Many I made them
>vegetarian just by showing them somepictures of
>butcher houses, they have heart. But we jains even if
>we see a dieing calf we are least bothered. All we
>bothered is a cup of milk, let it come from a dieing
>soul. and for which we human being are responsible.
>
>Good luck , have a nice day.

There are places in Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta, Chennai
where mostly Jains are interested in fresh milk. cows
are tied around their locality, calves are produced,
they are kicked in traffic, die after having painful
starving days right after birth. We see everyday, we
do not want to stop such himsa, we still want to buy
milk from very same cow and cow owner. I feel I cannot
talk of All granthas, samyakgyan and all the studies
when a calf is dieing infront of us. I have even seen
our own Sadhus , guru when go for bhiksha in those
locality see the dieing calves but want to do nothing.
If they want they can guide our people . We can
protect 1000s of calves if we are careful.
Similarly we can save 20000 worms by avoiding one silk
saree. and same thing about varak,

But many doesn't seem to understand and talk out of
point.

Moreover many jain boys go to christian schools who
know more about christianity than jainism. Even we can
site few examples were parents have not taught them
namo-arihantam.

Well it is upto people to decide and think the way
they want. But it is good to act on something which is
infront of our eyes rather than doing e-daya and
sending donations for someone dieing 100s of
kilometers away.  I can tell you a place where guru
maharaj is having vyakhyan and below the same building
in busy locality calves die every second day who are
tied there starved right from their birth. Don't think
we can think for them for a while?

regards
--- Jinender jain <jinender@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Mr AV Jain: you can only request and not demand from
> people to follow your line of thought. Jains and
> Jainism have survived thousands of years and I am
> sure they will survive thousands more.
>
> Mr Moderator: Please make sure that rhetoric mails
> are not posted to waste everybody's time. It can be
> in terms of gentle reminder or warning for
> stretching a debate too long.
>
> Regards
> Jinender Jain
> P.S - Any jains in Malaysia ?
>
>
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 av jain wrote :
> >Jai jinedra.
> >You look like only a person can talk from your
> >desktop,
> >I do not expect such lectures from you. I know more
> >than what you know. But my question to you is what
> you
> >have protest about my writings and what you are
> trying
> >to convey to everyone. It would be ideal if you
> stick
> >to issues than to your own lectures. There are many
> >who can just talk and harp but nothing to
> contribute,
> >that is how we are getting devided and devided  and
> >limiting ourselves on common issues.
> >
> >what I have suggested is only that we Jains should
> >stop using varak, the ghee which we relish is
> taking
> >life of so many calves. if you have not seen or
> heard
> >then you are only your table worm, try to see the
> >world beyond your house, you will know the reality.
> >for more infor visit
> >
> >www.goveg.com
> >all-creatures.org
> >
> >We jains are only for name sake jains, we take no
> >efforts in remaining jains, we teach our next
> >generation to go to christian schools and forget
> our
> >heritage, for which people like us (including you)
> are
> >responsible, who do not want to accept the fact at
> >first stage, secondly do not want to act, and
> thirdly
> >who act , are also criticized.
> >
> >I am strong believer that our gurus today have
> nothing
> >to contribute to sustain jainism for another few
> >decades. the fate will be known soon if such trend
> is
> >still continued.
> >
> >Any way you are entitled for your own opinion in
> your
> >own way. Please do not reply anymore, as I don't
> argue
> >with people who are not practical and ofcourse no
> time
> >for that. It is better I spend some time for good
> >cause, most of my american friends are vegetarian
> who
> >do not use even leather wallet. Many I made them
> >vegetarian just by showing them somepictures of
> >butcher houses, they have heart. But we jains even
> if
> >we see a dieing calf we are least bothered. All we
> >bothered is a cup of milk, let it come from a
> dieing
> >soul. and for which we human being are responsible.
> >
> >Good luck , have a nice day.
>


__________________________________
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sadar jai jinendra
Shree mahaveer jain sanskratik kalamanch, jodhpurdwara sammedsikhar
ji ek special train yatra ka aayojan kiya ja raha he. yatra ke liye
5100/- Rs. per member (children 5 to 11 age 3100/-) rakha gaya he.
avasya humse sampark kaar ticket book karwa sakte he. If you are
interested in detail of yatra. pls send me your addr. yatra ka
pemplet aur sari detail mail nahi kar sakte he islye aapka addr.
bheje to hum yaha se aapko pemplet aur form bhijwa sakenge. aap jarur
yatra me sath chalne ka manas banaye. yahi aasha he.   reply as soon
as possible
  KAMLESH MEHTA
   shree mahaveer jain sanskratik kalamanch, C/o Navkar Cards, B.F.
Bafna Market, Tripoliya Bazar Road
  jodhpur(Raj.)  E-mail : kamal_331@..., Ph. 94142-6782

see attachment

________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo! India Education Special: Study in the UK now.
Go to http://in.specials.yahoo.com/index1.html

----- Original Message -----

From: av jain

To: Jinender jain ; JainNet@yahoogroups.com

Cc: Modi ; av jain

Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:35 PM

Subject: Re: <JainNet> Are we vegetarian debate ?

There are places in Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta, Chennai
where mostly Jains are interested in fresh milk. cows
are tied around their locality, calves are produced,
they are kicked in traffic, die after having painful
starving days right after birth. We see everyday, we
do not want to stop such himsa, we still want to buy
milk from very same cow and cow owner. I feel I cannot
talk of All granthas, samyakgyan and all the studies
when a calf is dieing infront of us. I have even seen
our own Sadhus , guru when go for bhiksha in those
locality see the dieing calves but want to do nothing.
If they want they can guide our people . We can
protect 1000s of calves if we are careful.
Similarly we can save 20000 worms by avoiding one silk
saree. and same thing about varak,

But many doesn't seem to understand and talk out of
point. 

Moreover many jain boys go to christian schools who
know more about christianity than jainism. Even we can
site few examples were parents have not taught them
namo-arihantam.

Well it is upto people to decide and think the way
they want. But it is good to act on something which is
infront of our eyes rather than doing e-daya and
sending donations for someone dieing 100s of
kilometers away.  I can tell you a place where guru
maharaj is having vyakhyan and below the same building
in busy locality calves die every second day who are
tied there starved right from their birth. Don't think
we can think for them for a while?

regards
--- Jinender jain <jinender@...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Mr AV Jain: you can only request and not demand from
> people to follow your line of thought. Jains and
> Jainism have survived thousands of years and I am
> sure they will survive thousands more.
>
> Mr Moderator: Please make sure that rhetoric mails
> are not posted to waste everybody's time. It can be
> in terms of gentle reminder or warning for
> stretching a debate too long.
>
> Regards
> Jinender Jain
> P.S - Any jains in Malaysia ?
>
>
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 av jain wrote :
> >Jai jinedra.
> >You look like only a person can talk from your
> >desktop,
> >I do not expect such lectures from you. I know more
> >than what you know. But my question to you is what
> you
> >have protest about my writings and what you are
> trying
> >to convey to everyone. It would be ideal if you
> stick
> >to issues than to your own lectures. There are many
> >who can just talk and harp but nothing to
> contribute,
> >that is how we are getting devided and devided  and
> >limiting ourselves on common issues.
> >
> >what I have suggested is only that we Jains should
> >stop using varak, the ghee which we relish is
> taking
> >life of so many calves. if you have not seen or
> heard
> >then you are only your table worm, try to see the
> >world beyond your house, you will know the reality.
> >for more infor visit
> >
> >www.goveg.com
> >all-creatures.org
> >
> >We jains are only for name sake jains, we take no
> >efforts in remaining jains, we teach our next
> >generation to go to christian schools and forget
> our
> >heritage, for which people like us (including you)
> are
> >responsible, who do not want to accept the fact at
> >first stage, secondly do not want to act, and
> thirdly
> >who act , are also criticized.
> >
> >I am strong believer that our gurus today have
> nothing
> >to contribute to sustain jainism for another few
> >decades. the fate will be known soon if such trend
> is
> >still continued.
> >
> >Any way you are entitled for your own opinion in
> your
> >own way. Please do not reply anymore, as I don't
> argue
> >with people who are not practical and ofcourse no
> time
> >for that. It is better I spend some time for good
> >cause, most of my american friends are vegetarian
> who
> >do not use even leather wallet. Many I made them
> >vegetarian just by showing them somepictures of
> >butcher houses, they have heart. But we jains even
> if
> >we see a dieing calf we are least bothered. All we
> >bothered is a cup of milk, let it come from a
> dieing
> >soul. and for which we human being are responsible.
> >
> >Good luck , have a nice day.
>


__________________________________
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http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html



!!!!! Jai Jinendra !!!!!

Please recycle this message and send it to everyone who you think will benefit from it! 

If you have something which is in the best interests of Jainism or worthy of appealing to the masses, please feel free to post a message to JainNet for a worldwide coverage.  Try to include your message in the body of the email.  Please do not send forwards as some of them are not going through yahoogroups properly.

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!!!!! Michhami Dukkadam !!!!!

Jai Jinendra,

Most of the religions I have studied teach ideal worship.  I wanted
to know if Jainism is also supposed to be practiced ideally or
practically? For instance, my cousin who took dixa two years ago
would not even go inside other temples to pray besides Jain temple. I
on the other hand believe that you could go to a Hindu temple but
pray in your own way. I  think how you pray takes precedence over
where you pray.  Ideally speaking going to others' temples is not
allowed but then practically we all sometime go to our friends'
temples. Is that okay?

thank you

Toral

>From: sumit <sumitdangi@...>
>Reply-To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
>To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [JainList] Eating Gelatin
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:58:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>Dear friends,
>I didn't realise until yesterday that many of us are
>consuming a really non-vegetarian product, named
>Gelatin/ Jell-O. It is sweet in taste and is
>especially consumed by many of us who live outside
>India, as a regular snack/ candy. I have also seen
>many Jain families feeding this to their children on a
>regular basis.
>
>Gelatin (US spelling) or gelatine (British spelling)
>(used to make Jell-o and other desserts) is made from
>the boiled bones, skins and tendons of animals.
>
>am also attaching a link for those of you who are
>interested in knowing more about the same.
>
>http://www.ivu.org/faq/gelatine.html
>
>Best Regards,
>Sumit
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/

You can buy powder vegetarian Gelatin from Indian Stores made from Agar Agar
or seaweed.
More info on   http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/agara012.html.  It
is made out of Carageenan:A polysaccharide extracted from red algae or
seaweed and used for many industrial products.

In USA, Hunts' Snack Pack is a very good vegetarian jelly and does not need
to be refrigerated.  Normal NON_VEG Gelatin tends to require refrigeration.

CHEESE:  While I am at it, Cabot Cheese does not contain any animal Rennet
and good for consumption by Vegetarians.

Enjoy vegetarian jelly and cheese

Nalin Jain

-----Original Message-----
From: Jain Pathshala [mailto:jainpathshala@...]
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2004 5:30 PM
To: jaina_teachers@yahoogroups.com; jainlist@yahoogroups.com;
jainnet@yahoogroups.com; jainsamachar@yahoogroups.com;
jainshala@yahoogroups.com; jainshala_level-2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: <JainNet> Eating Gelatin





>From: sumit <sumitdangi@...>
>Reply-To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
>To: jainlist@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [JainList] Eating Gelatin
>Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:58:08 -0800 (PST)
>
>Dear friends,
>I didn't realise until yesterday that many of us are
>consuming a really non-vegetarian product, named
>Gelatin/ Jell-O. It is sweet in taste and is
>especially consumed by many of us who live outside
>India, as a regular snack/ candy. I have also seen
>many Jain families feeding this to their children on a
>regular basis.
>
>Gelatin (US spelling) or gelatine (British spelling)
>(used to make Jell-o and other desserts) is made from
>the boiled bones, skins and tendons of animals.
>
>am also attaching a link for those of you who are
>interested in knowing more about the same.
>
>http://www.ivu.org/faq/gelatine.html
>
>Best Regards,
>Sumit
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
>http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed
Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/





!!!!! Jai Jinendra !!!!!

Please recycle this message and send it to everyone who you think will
benefit from it!

If you have something which is in the best interests of Jainism or worthy of
appealing to the masses, please feel free to post a message to JainNet for a
worldwide coverage.  Try to include your message in the body of the email.
Please do not send forwards as some of them are not going through
yahoogroups properly.

To Post a message, send it to:
JainNet@YahooGroups.com

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!!!!! Michhami Dukkadam !!!!!
Yahoo! Groups Links

15th Marathi Jain Sahitya Sammelan on 8th & 9th March
04

15th Marathi Jain Sahitya Sammelan will be held at
Solapur (Maharashtra) on 8th & 9th March 04. The
sammelan will be inaugurated by noted Marathi writer
Padmashri Madhu Mangesh Karnik. The chief guest is
renowned Marathi writer Professor Shivajirao Bhosale.
The entire sammelan will be held under the auspicious
presence of his highness Laxmisen Bhattarakji of
Kolhapur.

Noted Marathi writer Surekha Shah is the president of
this 15th Marathi Jain Sahitya Sammelan.

You are invited to attend this sammelan.

Place: Hutatma Smruti Mandir, Solapur

For more details, accommodation and registration,
please contact:

Dr. Ravsaheb Patil
Secretary, Maharashtra Jain Sahitya Parishad
C/o 10 Shriram Apartments
Samrat Chowk, Solapur 413 002

Phone: 0217-2328477, Mobile: 9822978747


- Mahavir Sanglikar

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Do you know what  VEAL is? do you know what veal is? It is the meat of
a baby
calf that has been starved to death so that the meat is pale pink, almost
white. It is served in most Five Star Hotels, and can be bought at certain
supermarkets . The VEAL calf industry is among the worst of all kinds of
intensive animal agriculture. It is literally a fate far worse than death.

Male calfs are taken from their mothers one or two days after birth. They
are chained inside tiny crates barely larger than their bodies and are
kept
in total darkness. During their brief lives, they never see the sun or
touch
the earth. They never see or taste grass. Their muscles ache for
freedom and
exercise. They long for maternal care.....

About 14-16 weeks after their birth, they are slaughtered. The Calfs
home is
a VEAL crate, a wooden restraining device that is so small (22 inches
by 54
inches) that the calves cannot turn around. Designed to prevent any
movement, the crate does its job of atrophying the calves' muscles, THUS
PRODUCING TENDER "GOURMET" VEAL.

Imagine if you had to sit in one position for months without being able to
move at all. The calves also suffer from open sores caused by the constant
rubbing against the crates. There is no bedding on which they lie, simply
hard wood. They will never walk again. In fact, they will never stand
again
except when they go for slaughter - and by then they are so weak their
limbs
have become useless. These are little babies who will never see even one
year of life. Have never romped and played, have never seen another
calf or
anyone- just a big bottle of forcible feed mush which is shoved into their
throat every few hours and injections that pierce their skin regularly to
make them fatter and keep them alive. They cough all the time and their
faeces comes out in painful streams dirtying their nether parts.

The calves are fed a high fat liquid feed intentionally lacking in
iron and
other essential nutrients. This diet keeps the animals anaemic and creates
the pale pink or white colour considered desirable in VEAL. Craving iron,
the calves lick urine-saturated salts and any metallic parts of their
stalls. Farmers also withhold water from the animals, who, always thirsty,
are driven to drink the disgusting slop the feed is.

Because of such extremely unhealthy living conditions and food, the calves
soon develop chronic pneumonia and constant diarrhoea. Consequently, they
are given massive doses of antibiotics and other drugs just to keep them
alive. The antibiotics are passed onto the consumers in the meat.

That's not all that's passed along. Most international veal production
companies give calves 'clenbuterol' , a dangerous and illegal drug that
speeds growth and increases anaemia in the calves, producing more
expensive
white meat. Calves treated with 'clenbuterol' can be sold for slaughter at
12 to 13 weeks of age, rather than the standard 16 weeks. Even trace
amounts
of 'clenbuterol' can cause severe illness in humans, including increased
heart rate, tremors, breathing difficulties, fever and even death.

In 1996 the EU voted to ban the VEAL crate across Europe, but the veal
industry said they would suffer economically, so it will be phased out and
removed in the year 2007 only. Yet the trade will continue to thrive in
various other countries.

People who eat veal basically are eating the pale and tender meat of a
very
sick baby cow who was tortured to death. They are also eating antibiotics
and hormones that kept the baby alive long after its body had given
up. The
meat is so white because there are NO nutrients in it. It is senseless
food
eaten by the senseless and savoured for its colour and chewability rather
than any intrinsic merit. Surely, if a person is paying soooo much
money for
the meal, he must want something in exchange: Apart from drugs and
cancer????

Don't buy veal, and tell friends, neighbours and relatives why.



PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD AROUND.

Sadharmi Jain bandhuon;
Jai Jinendra,
we require some important info regarding jainism.
details are at  Discussion board : http://jaindharm.proboards23.com under
heading gnostic central .
I will be greatful for anytype of help.
plz forward this mail to ur jain friends  u think who can help us.
Jai Jinendra,
Kapil Jain

Jai Jinendra,

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