We are rated at 171 racing and 186 for cruising here in New England. We race in the cruising fleet. 5 races so far this year and 3 bullets. We think the new main is working.
Barefoot Children #29
 

---

To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
From: hansandsharon@...
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:21:42 -0400
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Welcome

 

Hi everyone

What ratings do you get in different places,

I sail on Lake St Clair near Detroit, with a furling Jib and usually go Jam class?

Hans,

"Last Dance" J28

---- Original Message ----
From: John <jfws88@...>
To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:10 pm
Subject: [J28Sailors] Welcome

 

Welcome newcomers to the j28 cult.
They are greta boats and they do sail to their rating in both Spinaker and cruissing classes. I race in both classes and do pretty well. This site has a pretty good library of information on the various problems, modifications, improvements and general things to look for. I've had mine for for 8 years and keep telling myself "I'm ready to move up" them I go sailing and say "why". 5 in the cockpit in comfortable on the hook but when sailing may be too much weight in the stern. They are a bit heavy in the ass so watch the weight placement.
As part of the site theer's a database of the hull #'s and location. when you get a chance put yours in. We'll see just how many are still sailing.

John Whaley
#11 WHALAYED

My rating in Narragansett bay is 180 spinn and 196 non spin. I use a 135 genny
as my primary head sail.

J30 chute fit perfectly, I have one but they are hard to find and the ones that
the class guys give up are "well used"

Roy did your new main come from the Doyle loft in EG, Todd measured my boat for
the fit.

John

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
>
> What's the difference between your racing and cruising rating?   What size
Jin?   I'm going to start phrf racing on the sound.  I have a spin Burris pretty
small.   Thinking of getting either a 150.  Or a j 30 chute.  Any opinions?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:05 PM, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
>
> > We are rated at 171 racing and 186 for cruising here in New England. We race
in the cruising fleet. 5 races so far this year and 3 bullets. We think the new
main is working.
> > Barefoot Children #29
> >
> > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
> > From: hansandsharon@...
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:21:42 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Welcome
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone
> > What ratings do you get in different places,
> > I sail on Lake St Clair near Detroit, with a furling Jib and usually go Jam
class?
> > Hans,
> > "Last Dance" J28
> > ---- Original Message ----
> > From: John <jfws88@...>
> > To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:10 pm
> > Subject: [J28Sailors] Welcome
> >
> >
> > Welcome newcomers to the j28 cult.
> > They are greta boats and they do sail to their rating in both Spinaker and
cruissing classes. I race in both classes and do pretty well. This site has a
pretty good library of information on the various problems, modifications,
improvements and general things to look for. I've had mine for for 8 years and
keep telling myself "I'm ready to move up" them I go sailing and say "why". 5 in
the cockpit in comfortable on the hook but when sailing may be too much weight
in the stern. They are a bit heavy in the ass so watch the weight placement.
> > As part of the site theer's a database of the hull #'s and location. when
you get a chance put yours in. We'll see just how many are still sailing.
> >
> > John Whaley
> > #11 WHALAYED
> >
> >
> >
>

 

My rating in Narragansett bay is 180 spinn and 196 non spin. I use a 135 genny as my primary head sail.

J30 chute fit perfectly, I have one but they are hard to find and the ones that the class guys give up are "well used"

Roy did your new main come from the Doyle loft in EG, Todd measured my boat for the fit.

John

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
>
> What's the difference between your racing and cruising rating? What size Jin? I'm going to start phrf racing on the sound. I have a spin Burris pretty small. Thinking of getting either a 150. Or a j 30 chute. Any opinions?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 28, 2012, at 11:05 PM, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
>
> > We are rated at 171 racing and 186 for cruising here in New England. We race in the cruising fleet. 5 races so far this year and 3 bullets. We think the new main is working.
> > Barefoot Children #29
> >
> > To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
> > From: hansandsharon@...
> > Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:21:42 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Welcome
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone
> > What ratings do you get in different places,
> > I sail on Lake St Clair near Detroit, with a furling Jib and usually go Jam class?
> > Hans,
> > "Last Dance" J28
> > ---- Original Message ----
> > From: John <jfws88@...>
> > To: J28Sailors <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Thu, Jun 28, 2012 5:10 pm
> > Subject: [J28Sailors] Welcome
> >
> >
> > Welcome newcomers to the j28 cult.
> > They are greta boats and they do sail to their rating in both Spinaker and cruissing classes. I race in both classes and do pretty well. This site has a pretty good library of information on the various problems, modifications, improvements and general things to look for. I've had mine for for 8 years and keep telling myself "I'm ready to move up" them I go sailing and say "why". 5 in the cockpit in comfortable on the hook but when sailing may be too much weight in the stern. They are a bit heavy in the ass so watch the weight placement.
> > As part of the site theer's a database of the hull #'s and location. when you get a chance put yours in. We'll see just how many are still sailing.
> >
> > John Whaley
> > #11 WHALAYED
> >
> >
> >
>

Ok folks,

I'm in the final steps of having a new dodger built, and now I have doubts. How
many of you have dodgers and how high do they set over the companion way? Can
you see over the top when sailing? I'm conflicted  as to keeping it lower to see
over and as high as possible for clearance for entrance/exiting the cabin.

 

Ok folks,

I'm in the final steps of having a new dodger built, and now I have doubts. How many of you have dodgers and how high do they set over the companion way? Can you see over the top when sailing? I'm conflicted as to keeping it lower to see over and as high as possible for clearance for entrance/exiting the cabin.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the J28Sailors
group.

   File        : /J 28 Brochure.pdf
   Uploaded by : taylorbj28 <taylorbj28@...>
   Description : J 28 Brochure

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/J28Sailors/files/J%2028%20Brochure.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html
Regards,

taylorbj28 <taylorbj28@...>

I just joined the group and have scanned an old J 28 brochure. I will try to
post it.

Hey J28'ers,

Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model?  I
want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the
bouys.

Any thoughts??

Tx Tommy

 

Hey J28'ers,

Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.

Any thoughts??

Tx Tommy

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers
on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with
the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and
tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well
in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.


John
--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but
I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes
home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go
faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I
want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the
bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

 

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.

John
--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

 

I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers. 

I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks at the mast partner would help.

Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?

I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF

I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the boat quickly in any breeze

JP

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

 

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.

John
--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

 

David,

 

Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version? 

 

That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind.  With the rig that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind.  However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though.  With the lowers on hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions.  I am curious though, with the lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to stay powered up when sailing upwind?

 

JP,

 

You definitely want to move your mast step back.  That gives your main better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop.  As far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a new one.  This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft moving aft in older sails.

 

I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!

 

Tommy

From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

 

John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been down wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor. I've set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:

Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it not all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.

As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.

I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually allows me to get up and get by the problem.

I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work as well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm sticking with it until I find the need of something different.

Sent from my iPad

David L. Hastings

5608 W. Woodside Dr.

Crystal River, FL 34429

Home: 352-794-6440

Cell: 315-345-2078

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

 

I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers. 

I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks at the mast partner would help.

Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?

I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF

I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the boat quickly in any breeze

JP

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

 

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.

John
--- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

____________________________________________________________
5 Diet Pills that Work
2012's Top 5 Weight Loss Pills. Updated Consumer Ratings. Free Report.
DietRatings.org

Interesting, When Todd measured my boat for Roy's main he asked if I sail with
the rig this loose. And, he really cranked the backstay for one of the
measurements. I mean pully down to the hand rail tight. I'd never seem my mast
bend that much. His words,"perfectly normal"
I use the back stay alot in a breeze to help flatten the boat and ease weather
helm but I never pulled it that far. Conclusion for me, my rig is too loose by
all accounts here.

Dave, I'm not sure if I'll go all the my to your tuning but I will take heed of
42 years racing J boats.


--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Tommy,
>
> I have a shoal draft. With my rig tuned as described, the back stay is off all
the way most of the time except cranked in on heavy puffs going upwind. To the
best of my knowledge, fractional rig J's always should have the lowers tighter
than the uppers. In all my years of J racing (that would be 42 years), I have
never seen a J mast given way or broken. Having the lowers tighter than the
uppers allows the upper third of the mast to fall off in heavy air allowing the
main to dump some load and the boat sails flatter. Again, all this is for
fractional rigs only.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Tommy Koe <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > David,
> >
> > Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version?
> >
> > That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind.  With the rig
that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind. 
However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though.  With the lowers on
hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions.  I am curious though, with the
lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to
stay powered up when sailing upwind?
> >
> > JP,
> >
> > You definitely want to move your mast step back.  That gives your main
better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop.  As
far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a
new one.  This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft
moving aft in older sails.
> >
> > I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!
> >
> > Tommy
> >
> > From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
> > To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
> >
> >
> > John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been down
wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor. I've
set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:
> >
> > Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it not
all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure
everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and
far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen
a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in
really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and
the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the
uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has
always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.
> >
> > As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but
usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.
> >
> > I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to
windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the
traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually
allows me to get up and get by the problem.
> >
> > I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work as
well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm
sticking with it until I find the need of something different.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > David L. Hastings
> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> > Crystal River, FL 34429
> > Home: 352-794-6440
> > Cell: 315-345-2078
> >
> > On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly
a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on
my uppers and 750 on the lowers.
> >>
> >> I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks
at the mast partner would help.
> >>
> >> Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?
> >>
> >> I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF
> >>
> >> I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced
before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the
boat quickly in any breeze
> >>
> >> JP
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any
numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best
with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny
and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do
well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>> --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
<david.hastings@> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to
date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who
usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point
higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
> >>> >
> >>> > Sent from my iPad
> >>> >
> >>> > David L. Hastings
> >>> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> >>> > Crystal River, FL 34429
> >>> > Home: 352-794-6440
> >>> > Cell: 315-345-2078
> >>> >
> >>> > On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > > Hey J28'ers,
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft
model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race
around the bouys.
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Any thoughts??
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Tx Tommy
> >>> > >
> >>> > >
> >>> >
> >>> > __________________________________________________________
> >>> > NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> >>> > http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
> >>> >
> >>>
> >
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > 5 Diet Pills that Work
> > 2012's Top 5 Weight Loss Pills. Updated Consumer Ratings. Free Report.
> > DietRatings.org
> >
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________
> 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
> The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
> http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff300315ee2f2f7de2st51duc
>

 

Do you have this rig tune for light air?  That was what i was thinking.  Sorry, I was very vague in my question.

 

that is exciting that the 28 sails well!!! 

 

 

From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

 

Tommy,

I have a shoal draft. With my rig tuned as described, the back stay is off all the way most of the time except cranked in on heavy puffs going upwind. To the best of my knowledge, fractional rig J's always should have the lowers tighter than the uppers. In all my years of J racing (that would be 42 years), I have never seen a J mast given way or broken. Having the lowers tighter than the uppers allows the upper third of the mast to fall off in heavy air allowing the main to dump some load and the boat sails flatter. Again, all this is for fractional rigs only.

Sent from my iPad

David L. Hastings

5608 W. Woodside Dr.

Crystal River, FL 34429

Home: 352-794-6440

Cell: 315-345-2078

On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Tommy Koe <evenflow457@...> wrote:

 

David,

 

Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version? 

 

That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind.  With the rig that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind.  However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though.  With the lowers on hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions.  I am curious though, with the lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to stay powered up when sailing upwind?

 

JP,

 

You definitely want to move your mast step back.  That gives your main better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop.  As far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a new one.  This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft moving aft in older sails.

 

I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!

 

Tommy

From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

 

John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been down wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor. I've set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:

Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it not all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.

As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.

I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually allows me to get up and get by the problem.

I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work as well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm sticking with it until I find the need of something different.

Sent from my iPad

David L. Hastings

5608 W. Woodside Dr.

Crystal River, FL 34429

Home: 352-794-6440

Cell: 315-345-2078

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

 

I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers. 

I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks at the mast partner would help.

Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?

I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF

I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the boat quickly in any breeze

JP

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

 

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.

John
--- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

____________________________________________________________
5 Diet Pills that Work
2012's Top 5 Weight Loss Pills. Updated Consumer Ratings. Free Report.
DietRatings.org

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com

 

Do you have this rig tune for light air?  That was what i was thinking.  Sorry, I was very vague in my question.

 

that is exciting that the 28 sails well!!! 

 

 

From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 10:22 AM
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

 

Tommy,

I have a shoal draft. With my rig tuned as described, the back stay is off all the way most of the time except cranked in on heavy puffs going upwind. To the best of my knowledge, fractional rig J's always should have the lowers tighter than the uppers. In all my years of J racing (that would be 42 years), I have never seen a J mast given way or broken. Having the lowers tighter than the uppers allows the upper third of the mast to fall off in heavy air allowing the main to dump some load and the boat sails flatter. Again, all this is for fractional rigs only.

Sent from my iPad

David L. Hastings

5608 W. Woodside Dr.

Crystal River, FL 34429

Home: 352-794-6440

Cell: 315-345-2078

On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Tommy Koe <evenflow457@...> wrote:

 

David,

 

Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version? 

 

That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind.  With the rig that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind.  However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though.  With the lowers on hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions.  I am curious though, with the lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to stay powered up when sailing upwind?

 

JP,

 

You definitely want to move your mast step back.  That gives your main better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop.  As far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a new one.  This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft moving aft in older sails.

 

I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!

 

Tommy

From: David Hastings <david.hastings@...>
To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance

 

John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been down wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor. I've set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:

Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it not all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.

As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.

I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually allows me to get up and get by the problem.

I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work as well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm sticking with it until I find the need of something different.

Sent from my iPad

David L. Hastings

5608 W. Woodside Dr.

Crystal River, FL 34429

Home: 352-794-6440

Cell: 315-345-2078

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

 

I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well, particularly a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers. 

I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks at the mast partner would help.

Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?

I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF

I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the boat quickly in any breeze

JP

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

 

Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.

John
--- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:
>
> Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> David L. Hastings
> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> Crystal River, FL 34429
> Home: 352-794-6440
> Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey J28'ers,
> >
> > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race around the bouys.
> >
> > Any thoughts??
> >
> > Tx Tommy
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________________
> NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
> http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>

____________________________________________________________
5 Diet Pills that Work
2012's Top 5 Weight Loss Pills. Updated Consumer Ratings. Free Report.
DietRatings.org

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com

Roy,

Do you have the Shoal draft or the Fin keel??

Tommy

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Roy Briscoe <roysail@...> wrote:
>
>
> We have our settings at 975 uppers and 775 lowers and with the new main and
mast step change are just walking away from our competition, when the wind is
over 10 knots. We have the mast base fully forward this year too. The first year
we had the mast back, last year it was in the middle and this year all the way
forward. If the wind is 6-8 knots, we don't do so well and under 6 we do OK. Our
fleet, under 30', starts 5 minutes after the over 30' and by the end of the race
we have usually passed all but 2 of the big boats, they range from 30' to 42',
all but one are over 35'. We have setup the boat very close to the way the J30's
in Marblehead are setup, except maybe about 100 lbs or so lighter on tension. We
have a fin keel, gas grill on the stern rail, dodger, cockpit table (put away
under sail), anchor stowed under the starboard settee, V-berth linens all on
board.  We have a fair amount of headstay sag, maybe 8-10 inches in light to
medium winds before we start cranking on the backstay. We reef the main at about
14-15 knots of wind and leave the 155% up, bring the leads back, crank on the
back stay and pinch (and point) crazy high in the heavier winds, using the
pinching to bleed off air.  We have a fairly light weight crew and race with
about 5-6 people in the cruising fleet, 3 are women. We have the 155 set with 3
holes showing behind the lead. We usually out point everyone by huge amounts
except for an Alerion 28 and a Baby Beneteau 235. On a good day (over 10 knots)
we are even boat speed with the Alerion upwind and we are always faster
downwind. We usually sail in a dying breeze on Tuesday nights, it might start
out around 10-12 knots and slowly craps out. Roy
>  To: J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com
> From: jfws88@...
> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 16:52:10 +0000
> Subject: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Interesting, When Todd measured my boat for Roy's main he asked if I
sail with the rig this loose. And, he really cranked the backstay for one of the
measurements. I mean pully down to the hand rail tight. I'd never seem my mast
bend that much. His words,"perfectly normal"
>
> I use the back stay alot in a breeze to help flatten the boat and ease weather
helm but I never pulled it that far. Conclusion for me, my rig is too loose by
all accounts here.
>
>
>
> Dave, I'm not sure if I'll go all the my to your tuning but I will take heed
of 42 years racing J boats.
>
>
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Tommy,
>
> >
>
> > I have a shoal draft. With my rig tuned as described, the back stay is off
all the way most of the time except cranked in on heavy puffs going upwind. To
the best of my knowledge, fractional rig J's always should have the lowers
tighter than the uppers. In all my years of J racing (that would be 42 years), I
have never seen a J mast given way or broken. Having the lowers tighter than the
uppers allows the upper third of the mast to fall off in heavy air allowing the
main to dump some load and the boat sails flatter. Again, all this is for
fractional rigs only.
>
> >
>
> > Sent from my iPad
>
> >
>
> > David L. Hastings
>
> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
>
> > Crystal River, FL 34429
>
> > Home: 352-794-6440
>
> > Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> >
>
> > On Jul 3, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Tommy Koe <evenflow457@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > David,
>
> > >
>
> > > Do you have a shoal draft or the 5' version?
>
> > >
>
> > > That makes sense that you are faster upwind than downwind.  With the rig
that tight, you are not allowing it sag or bend forward when sailing downwind. 
However, don't ease you backstay too much downwind though.  With the lowers on
hard, the mast could snap in moderate conditions.  I am curious though, with the
lowers tighter than the uppers, do you find yourself needing to ease the main to
stay powered up when sailing upwind?
>
> > >
>
> > > JP,
>
> > >
>
> > > You definitely want to move your mast step back.  That gives your main
better shape and allows more draft when needed in light stuff and in chop.  As
far as sag, on an older gennie, you can tighten your halyard a more than with a
new one.  This will move the draft forward as you always fighting the draft
moving aft in older sails.
>
> > >
>
> > > I am getting all pumped up about these boats and I don't have one, YET!!
>
> > >
>
> > > Tommy
>
> > >
>
> > > From: David Hastings <david.hastings@>
>
> > > To: "J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com" <J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com>
>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 3, 2012 7:38 AM
>
> > > Subject: Re: [J28Sailors] Re: Shoal Draft Performance
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > John, pointing has always been my strength. My losses have always been
down wind. I am not a numbers guy. I've always been a seat of the pants sailor.
I've set up my boat the same as I tuned my J29 as follows:
>
> > >
>
> > > Head stay is at maximum length and mast has a slight rake. Mast step it
not all the way forward. I'd guess it's about 1"ahead of center. Making sure
everything is neutral and mast is centered, I pull on the back stay as hard and
far as possible. Next, I tighten the uppers until the back stay begins to loosen
a bit so the uppers are real tight. Now I release the back stay and the mast in
really bent. Next I tighten the lowers until the prebend is pretty much gone and
the mast looks as straight as possible. Now the lowers are tighter than the
uppers and they are both pretty darn tight. I have never used a gauge. This has
always worked well for me on the J29 for upwind performance in all conditions.
>
> > >
>
> > > As far as the sails go, I had a 155 on my J29 and seldom reduced sail but
usually had a crew of 7. I have only a 135 on my J28 and It's in poor condition.
>
> > >
>
> > > I usually do best with the main strapped in hard and the boom slightly to
windward of center. If higher pointing is needed in close situations, I pull the
traveler over more to windward which, of course, slows the boat but usually
allows me to get up and get by the problem.
>
> > >
>
> > > I'm still too new to the 28 to know whether or not this set up will work
as well as it did on the 29 but so far it appears to be doing the trick so I'm
sticking with it until I find the need of something different.
>
> > >
>
> > > Sent from my iPad
>
> > >
>
> > > David L. Hastings
>
> > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
>
> > > Crystal River, FL 34429
>
> > > Home: 352-794-6440
>
> > > Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> > >
>
> > > On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:38 AM, John Power <sailingmaster@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > >>
>
> > >> I would be interested in some accurate tuning numbers as well,
particularly a rake measurement.  Currently I have my mast step max forward and
about 900 on my uppers and 750 on the lowers.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> I would like to see the mast bend a little lower and wonder if som blocks
at the mast partner would help.
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Also how much sag do you carry in the head stay?
>
> > >>
>
> > >> I have 4-5 inches I would say and am our Iu adjustment on the RF
>
> > >>
>
> > >> I gave raced the boat much, but I know the old genoa needs to be replaced
before I can comment on pointing.  I use the 135 as well the 150 overpowers the
boat quickly in any breeze
>
> > >>
>
> > >> JP
>
> > >>
>
> > >> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > >>
>
> > >> On Jul 3, 2012, at 6:09 AM, John <jfws88@> wrote:
>
> > >>
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> Dave, Interesting, pointing has always been my weakness. Do you have any
numbers on your rig set-up? And are you useing a 150% genny. I find I point best
with the boom pointed at the leward backstay, not on center. I use a 135% genny
and tune my rig to about 80% of the recommended J30 settings. When I don't do
well in a race it's almost always due to looses upwind.
>
> > >>>
>
> > >>> John
>
> > >>> --- In mailto:J28Sailors%40yahoogroups.com, David Hastings
<david.hastings@> wrote:
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > Haven't gotten my shoal draft J race ready yet so no formal racing to
date but I have had several opportunities to buff with a local S2 racer who
usually takes home the gold and I can beat the hell out of him upwind. I point
higher and go faster and that's before getting my new main.
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > Sent from my iPad
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > David L. Hastings
>
> > >>> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
>
> > >>> > Crystal River, FL 34429
>
> > >>> > Home: 352-794-6440
>
> > >>> > Cell: 315-345-2078
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > On Jul 2, 2012, at 3:10 PM, "Tommy" <evenflow457@> wrote:
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > > Hey J28'ers,
>
> > >>> > >
>
> > >>> > > Looking for more input on the racing performance of the shoal draft
model? I want to mainly cruz, but i still have the "racing bug" urge to race
around the bouys.
>
> > >>> > >
>
> > >>> > > Any thoughts??
>
> > >>> > >
>
> > >>> > > Tx Tommy
>
> > >>> > >
>
> > >>> > >
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>> > __________________________________________________________
>
> > >>> > NetZero now offers 4G mobile broadband. Sign up now.
>
> > >>> > http://www.netzero.net/?refcd=NZINTISP0512T4GOUT1
>
> > >>> >
>
> > >>>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > __________________________________________________________
>
> > > 5 Diet Pills that Work
>
> > > 2012's Top 5 Weight Loss Pills. Updated Consumer Ratings. Free Report.
>
> > > DietRatings.org
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > __________________________________________________________
>
> > 53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
>
> > The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
>
> > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4ff300315ee2f2f7de2st51duc
>
> >
>

My original Datamarine depth transducer bit the dust.  Anyone have a spare or
compatible unit?