This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.

From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache

free....so here goes.



Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my

boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two,

then it seems to go away.

I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but it

continues now as the temps are up in the 80s.  How concerned should I be?



I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that doesnt

explain how it ceases after the engine has been running.  When I bought the

boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and

replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide

and fuel stablilizer.



The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I

have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can

only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this.

Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my

engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.



I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after

that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.



Thanks in advance for the info!



JP

JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is

closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the

fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top

of the primary filter.

If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would get

worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.



John



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

>

> This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.

> From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache

free....so here goes.

>

> Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on my

boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two,

then it seems to go away.

> I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather, but

it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s.  How concerned should I be?

>

> I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that

doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running.  When I bought

the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and

replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide

and fuel stablilizer.

>

> The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter. I

have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and can

only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this.

Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my

engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.

>

> I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine after

that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.

>

> Thanks in advance for the info!

>

> JP

>

JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine for

some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any more (but

check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives.



BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12

gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really meant

for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to grow.

I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull

the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2

cents, don't add anything.



John



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

>

> Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for 10-20

mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.

> Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up as

soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow your advice....

>

> I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a spot

at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later this

summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it early and i

can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of

the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block

out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this winter, drying

out the core as much as possible with some acetone and rebedding, hoping to

avoid the whole re core issue as long as possible

>

> Thanks for the advice.

>

> JP

>

> On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

>

> JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is

closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on the

fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on the top

of the primary filter.

> If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and would

get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.

>

> John

>

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> >

> > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I go.

> > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty headache

free....so here goes.

> >

> > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel on

my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute or two,

then it seems to go away.

> > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold weather,

but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned should I be?

> >

> > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but that

doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I bought

the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained, cleaned and

replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up with algicide

and fuel stablilizer.

> >

> > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel filter.

I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in the bowl and

can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice on replacing this.

Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my

engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.

> >

> > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine

after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.

> >

> > Thanks in advance for the info!

> >

> > JP

> >

>

Jason, Thats Ok we can disagree and I do believe that some additives are good.

My information comes from a guy at Mack boring about my boat and from a friend

who runs a big sport fishing boat w/monster diesels.



You are correct about the fuel usage but more importantly how often the fuel

gets turned over at the source. Diesel that's been sitting in a tank all winter

at a recreational marina is certainly going to have more crap in it than a

commerical fuel dock. (they love us sailors with our 12 gallon tanks)



My point about additives is theres a lot of them out there and they don't always

compliment each other when mixing them. And there are specific amounts that get

added per tank size so you need to be careful.



I also agree we need more information from JP



John



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, Jason Smith <jason3317@...> wrote:

>

> Jo

> I have to respectfully (but strongly) disagree here.  The use of a biocide

> and select other additives are widely accepted practices that should have

> zero effect on the operation of a diesel.  The size of the tank really is

> not the determining factor, but it is how often you go through the fuel!

>  The diesel "bug" can grow in a mason jar, given the proper conditions.  In

> the proper concentrations, I can't imagine a problem.  Yanmar specifically

> recommends the use of FPPF products (I use the lubricity additive, plus a

> biocide).

>

> It's hard to diagnose these problems.  I think we need more info from JP:

>

> What RPM does this happen?  Or, at all RPMs?

> Can you hear the engine sound change, or is it just the RPM (trying to

> eliminate a sender, or loose wiring problem)

> Any obvious loss of power?

> Any pinging / ticking noise?

> Did this just start happening, or has been present since you took

> possession.

> What size prop?  And can you reach max RPM

>

> I am wondering if there is a minor, minor air leak at the Racor that is

> allowing fuel to drain back prior to start up (there is enough fuel in the

> secondary filter and HP pump to start the motor).

>

> Check the big bolt at the top of the Racor and make sure it is tight, double

> check the plastic water drain screw...even a 1/4 turn can make a difference)

>

> Jason

>

> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:37 PM, John <jfws88@...> wrote:

>

> >

> >

> > JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs fine

> > for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound like air any

> > more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do with the additives.

> >

> > BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks are 12

> > gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives are really

> > meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of surface area for stuff to

> > grow. I've owned my boat for eight years and never had an issue with fuel. I

> > did pull the tank for a cleaning one time but it was pretty clean when I did

> > it. My 2 cents, don't add anything.

> >

> > John

> >

> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run fine for

> > 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.

> > > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would show up

> > as soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow your advice....

> > >

> > > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely missed a

> > spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside down project later

> > this summer since I am already in the water, luckily I think I found it

> > early and i can probably use a dremel or fein sander and dig out between the

> > glass layers of the deck and pack glass in there to restore the integrity of

> > the area and block out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing

> > everything this winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some

> > acetone and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as

> > possible

> > >

> > > Thanks for the advice.

> > >

> > > JP

> > >

> > > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@> wrote:

> > >

> > > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system that is

> > closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the hose clamps on

> > the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least tighten the bleed screw on

> > the top of the primary filter.

> > > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature and

> > would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.

> > >

> > > John

> >

> > >

> > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning as I

> > go.

> > > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are pretty

> > headache free....so here goes.

> > > >

> > > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the diesel

> > on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will last a minute

> > or two, then it seems to go away.

> > > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold

> > weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How concerned

> > should I be?

> > > >

> > > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel, but

> > that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been running. When I

> > bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had the fuel tank drained,

> > cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It has been treated at each fill up

> > with algicide and fuel stablilizer.

> > > >

> > > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary fuel

> > filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has accumulated in

> > the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole thing apart. Any advice

> > on replacing this. Current and commercial traffic are issues where I sail,

> > so knowing that my engine is going to run is important to my anal retentive

> > peace of mind.

> > > >

> > > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to run fine

> > after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance for the info!

> > > >

> > > > JP

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >   Reply to

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How many RPM does it fluctuate when it happens?  Is it possible the load is

fluctuating due to waves?  The governor keeps the RPMs fairly steady when the

engine load is varying due to the boat climbing up/sliding down waves.  However

you will still see small fluctuations.



Kurt



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks for the advice. It happened before i did fuel additives as well

>

> I m stumped. I am going with the air theory for now.  Just makes me

> nervous. I am waiting for the day when it stops and I need it....

>

> Thanks for the help

>

> JP

> On Jun 1, 2011, at 9:37 PM, John wrote:

>

> > JP, A couple of things I missed in your first post, the engine runs

> > fine for some time and then starts to fluxuate? That doesn't sound

> > like air any more (but check it anyway). It may have something to do

> > with the additives.

> >

> > BTW, I never put anything other than fuel in my tank. These tanks

> > are 12 gallons, very small by most standards. Deisal fuel additives

> > are really meant for LARGE fuel tanks where there is a lot of

> > surface area for stuff to grow. I've owned my boat for eight years

> > and never had an issue with fuel. I did pull the tank for a cleaning

> > one time but it was pretty clean when I did it. My 2 cents, don't

> > add anything.

> >

> > John

> >

> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, John Power <sailingmaster@>

> > wrote:

> > >

> > > Sounds good. I will check it. Im just wondering why it will run

> > fine for 10-20 mins, then the rpms get funky, then it goes away.

> > > Seems to me if there was an air leak like you describe, it would

> > show up as soon as the engine started.  Still I amgoing to follow

> > your advice....

> > >

> > > I am goingt toand check my foredeck too. My surveyor completely

> > missed a spot at the starboard chainplate. That will be my upside

> > down project later this summer since I am already in the water,

> > luckily I think I found it early and i can probably use a dremel or

> > fein sander and dig out between the glass layers of the deck and

> > pack glass in there to restore the integrity of the area and block

> > out furthe water penetration. I plan on removing everything this

> > winter, drying out the core as much as possible with some acetone

> > and rebedding, hoping to avoid the whole re core issue as long as

> > possible

> > >

> > > Thanks for the advice.

> > >

> > > JP

> > >

> > > On Jun 01, 2011, at 01:09 PM, John <jfws88@> wrote:

> > >

> > > JP, my guess is you have a very small air leak in the fuel system

> > that is closing up with thermal expansion. I'd double check all the

> > hose clamps on the fuel lines and take out and clean or at least

> > tighten the bleed screw on the top of the primary filter.

> > > If the filter was the problem it wouldn't go away with temperature

> > and would get worst as you loaded the moter or rev'ed it up.

> > >

> > > John

> > >

> > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > This is my first experience with a diesel inboard so Im learning

> > as I go.

> > > > From what I understand a little reg maintenance and they are

> > pretty headache free....so here goes.

> > > >

> > > > Often, but not always within the first 15-30 mins of running the

> > diesel on my boat, the engine rpms will fluctuate. The problem will

> > last a minute or two, then it seems to go away.

> > > > I originally thought it might have had something to do with cold

> > weather, but it continues now as the temps are up in the 80s. How

> > concerned should I be?

> > > >

> > > > I would think this might be a sign of air or water in the fuel,

> > but that doesnt explain how it ceases after the engine has been

> > running. When I bought the boat, I put on all new filters and had

> > the fuel tank drained, cleaned and replaced with fresh diesel. It

> > has been treated at each fill up with algicide and fuel stablilizer.

> > > >

> > > > The other thing I think I need to do, is to change the primary

> > fuel filter. I have the old style and cannot see when water has

> > accumulated in the bowl and can only drain it by taking the whole

> > thing apart. Any advice on replacing this. Current and commercial

> > traffic are issues where I sail, so knowing that my engine is going

> > to run is important to my anal retentive peace of mind.

> > > >

> > > > I dont know if I am worried about nothing. The engine seems to

> > run fine after that first half hour,and is amazingly quiet and smooth.

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance for the info!

> > > >

> > > > JP

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

>

I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.



I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the

engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any

coolent in the heat exchanger.



Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120

degrees.



I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to

evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and

into the overflow reservoir.



I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the

exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the

head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced

advice before I jump to conclusions..



Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach

2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This

summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at

32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the

exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?



I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do

burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel

2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July

and Aug)  I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo

engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the

coolant..



Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water



Where should I start?



Thanks in advance and happy winter



JP

John,



I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an

engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my

experience.



• Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive

potential problems.

• Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending

to worry about the things that never happen but might)



First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?

Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?



Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.



If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never

checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the

coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to

temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.



When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the

engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably

when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be,

you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to

compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp

alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant

expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your

case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place,

and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.



Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the

peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of

the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the

engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine

near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot

water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?



Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm

assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and

commented.



What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently

opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the

darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that

take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge

smell of coolant?



Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to

start. It can be replaced.



After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible

coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant

might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a

relatively easy thing to check.



Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption

via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of

the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But

again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the

hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no

visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make

you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the

easy stuff is my suggestion.



A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources

of the issue I may be overlooking.



Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall

and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is

far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to

drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is

this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested

in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find

the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under

power and at what rpm?



I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400

rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but

personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall.

My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still

had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even

with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually

pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still

bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my

dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know

what it is.



Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being

your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The

diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders

to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes

time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly

there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is

the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.



What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black

stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It

certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of

that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might

as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at

start up that is the source.



I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.



Bill















--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

>

> I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

>

> I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the

engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any

coolent in the heat exchanger.

>

> Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120

degrees.

>

> I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to

evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and

into the overflow reservoir.

>

> I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from

the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be

the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced

advice before I jump to conclusions..

>

> Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach

2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This

summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at

32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the

exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

>

> I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do

burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel

2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July

and Aug)  I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo

engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the

coolant..

>

> Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

>

> Where should I start?

>

> Thanks in advance and happy winter

>

> JP

>

John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all the time to

find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can get at a auto parts store.

My guess is you'll find a small leak in the heat exchanger and small amounts of

engine coolant are going out with the raw water. It doesn't sound like you ever

get to a temp that would boil the water never mind the coolant.



Regarding the soot stains on the transom I get them too. Ther're a PIA to get

off.



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:

>

>

> John,

>

> I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am

an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on

my experience.

>

> • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive

potential problems.

> • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending

to worry about the things that never happen but might)

>

> First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?

> Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

>

> Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

>

> If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or

never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top

off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to

temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.

>

> When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running

the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands

considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as

it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually

be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your

high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the

coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in

your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take

place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the

engine.

>

> Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all

the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the

side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while

winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side

of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you

have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

>

> Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm

assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and

commented.

>

> What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you

accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you

saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on

them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does

the bilge smell of coolant?

>

> Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to

start. It can be replaced.

>

> After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible

coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant

might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a

relatively easy thing to check.

>

> Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption

via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of

the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But

again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the

hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no

visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make

you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the

easy stuff is my suggestion.

>

> A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

>

> Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last

fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec

is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like

to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12?

Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this.

Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you

make under power and at what rpm?

>

> I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to

2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern,

but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this

fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in

still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my

engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem

and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right

up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The

source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at

least know what it is.

>

> Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being

your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The

diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders

to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes

time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly

there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is

the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.

>

> What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black

stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It

certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of

that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might

as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at

start up that is the source.

>

> I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> >

> > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> >

> > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the

engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any

coolent in the heat exchanger.

> >

> > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than

120 degrees.

> >

> > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to

evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and

into the overflow reservoir.

> >

> > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from

the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be

the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced

advice before I jump to conclusions..

> >

> > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even

reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust.

This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out

at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the

exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> >

> > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I

do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the

diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live

aboard July and Aug)  I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on

a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of

the coolant..

> >

> > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

> >

> > Where should I start?

> >

> > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> >

> > JP

> >

>

Hi John,



Are you sure the hose to the overflow is not clogged?  That would prevent the

heat exchanger from pulling the anti freeze back into itself from the overflow

as it cools.  Also, if you feel your hot water heater is potentially leaking I

would check into it very soon.  Having anti-freeze leaking into your fresh water

is not the best thing for your health.



The soot on the transom is completely normal and as a previous poster said it is

a PIA to clean off.  If you look on the Photo page under  my boat (Evangeline

II) at the picture titled Evangeline II in Nantucket you can see the result. 

The amount of soot you see there was just from motoring through the Cape Cod

Canal and across Buzzards Bay or maybe 4 hours worth.



Kurt



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, john power <sailingmaster@...> wrote:

>

> I thnk I can live with that!  As long as not a head gasket....I dunno

> how accurate the temp guage is, the engine gets pretty warm, but runs

> perfect.

>

> One other thing I forgot was the fact that i have not hot water

> heater, but i still have the hoses that run to it (looped) i could be

> losing coolant there.

>

> I topped of the tank last spring, but the reservoir was empty..in the

> fall the reservoir was full and the tank empty....a mystery to be sure.

>

> No brown or bubbly oil, but i do seem to burn a good amount during the

> season...how about you? thoughts?

>

> Maybe I should ditch the diesel and get oars!

>

> JP

> On Nov 16, 2012, at 4:33 PM, John wrote:

>

> > John, my two cent and advice. I used to pressure test radiatirs all

> > the time to find the leaks. There is a simple pump set-up you can

> > get at a auto parts store. My guess is you'll find a small leak in

> > the heat exchanger and small amounts of engine coolant are going out

> > with the raw water. It doesn't sound like you ever get to a temp

> > that would boil the water never mind the coolant.

> >

> > Regarding the soot stains on the transom I get them too. Ther're a

> > PIA to get off.

> >

> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:

> > >

> > >

> > > John,

> > >

> > > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own

> > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts

> > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.

> > >

> > > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated

> > expensive potential problems.

> > > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following

> > this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)

> > >

> > > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this

> > past spring?

> > > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> > >

> > > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> > >

> > > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't

> > recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I

> > would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank

> > for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the

> > situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you

> > do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I

> > know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now

> > over the winter.

> > >

> > > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely

> > after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind

> > the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you

> > check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait

> > for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare

> > levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high

> > temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as

> > the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have

> > been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and

> > permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any

> > harm was done on that side of things to the engine.

> > >

> > > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant

> > is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed?

> > There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you

> > accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the

> > bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift

> > pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water

> > heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

> > >

> > > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is

> > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort

> > that would have noticed and commented.

> > >

> > > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if

> > you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been

> > something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the

> > drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the

> > bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?

> > >

> > > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy

> > place to start. It can be replaced.

> > >

> > > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about

> > a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the

> > tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater

> > via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.

> > >

> > > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant

> > consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is

> > nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see

> > white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very

> > tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use

> > your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible

> > steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to

> > make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again,

> > after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> > >

> > > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

> > causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> > >

> > > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my

> > boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree

> > the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400

> > rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it

> > sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec

> > elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in

> > what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do

> > you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What

> > speed do you make under power and at what rpm?

> > >

> > > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above

> > 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still

> > have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my

> > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine

> > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the

> > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine

> > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the

> > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she

> > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-

> > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope

> > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.

> > >

> > > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might

> > consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down,

> > common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram

> > more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and

> > the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time,

> > and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up

> > rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be

> > exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine,

> > temporarily.

> > >

> > > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend

> > to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is

> > white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on

> > your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind

> > that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number

> > of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up

> > that is the source.

> > >

> > > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> > >

> > > Bill

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> > > >

> > > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti

> > freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but

> > there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> > > >

> > > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up

> > more than 120 degrees.

> > > >

> > > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some

> > coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the

> > coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> > > >

> > > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the

> > transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another

> > possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the

> > case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to

> > conclusions..

> > > >

> > > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could

> > not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black

> > smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and

> > the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and

> > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does

> > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> > > >

> > > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil)

> > although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov

> > 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days

> > per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of

> > this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the

> > hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the

> > coolant..

> > > >

> > > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or

> > water

> > > >

> > > > Where should I start?

> > > >

> > > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> > > >

> > > > JP

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but

when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the

heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern.  Where

and what should I start checking?  I did check and clean the screen on the

filter by the intake valve.  It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

from the through hull, so that is not blocked.  When I remove the radiator cap,

it is full of coolent.  I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no

indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.



Any help would be appreciated.  Big race next weekend!



Thanks,



Steve



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:

>

>

> John,

>

> I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am

an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on

my experience.

>

> • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive

potential problems.

> • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending

to worry about the things that never happen but might)

>

> First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?

> Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

>

> Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

>

> If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or

never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top

off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to

temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.

>

> When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running

the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands

considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as

it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually

be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your

high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the

coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in

your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take

place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the

engine.

>

> Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all

the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the

side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while

winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side

of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you

have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

>

> Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm

assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and

commented.

>

> What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you

accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you

saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on

them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does

the bilge smell of coolant?

>

> Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to

start. It can be replaced.

>

> After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible

coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant

might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a

relatively easy thing to check.

>

> Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption

via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of

the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But

again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the

hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no

visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make

you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the

easy stuff is my suggestion.

>

> A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

>

> Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last

fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec

is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like

to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12?

Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this.

Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you

make under power and at what rpm?

>

> I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to

2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern,

but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this

fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in

still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my

engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem

and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right

up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The

source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at

least know what it is.

>

> Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being

your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The

diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders

to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes

time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly

there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is

the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.

>

> What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black

stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It

certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of

that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might

as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at

start up that is the source.

>

> I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

>

> Bill

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> >

> > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> >

> > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the

engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any

coolent in the heat exchanger.

> >

> > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than

120 degrees.

> >

> > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to

evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and

into the overflow reservoir.

> >

> > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from

the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be

the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced

advice before I jump to conclusions..

> >

> > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even

reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust.

This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out

at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the

exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> >

> > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I

do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the

diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live

aboard July and Aug)  I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on

a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of

the coolant..

> >

> > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

> >

> > Where should I start?

> >

> > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> >

> > JP

> >

>

 

Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

Thanks,

Steve

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
>
> • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
> • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
>
> First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
> Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
>
> Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
>
> If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
>
> When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
>
> Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
>
> Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
>
> What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
>
> Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
>
> After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
>
> Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
>
> A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
>
> Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
>
> I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
>
> Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
>
> What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
>
> I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
> >
> > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
> >
> > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
> >
> > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
> >
> > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
> >
> > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
> >
> > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
> >
> > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
> >
> > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
> >
> > Where should I start?
> >
> > Thanks in advance and happy winter
> >
> > JP
> >
>

 

Hi Steve 

I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

Check after each for water in the exhurst

Hans

"Last Dance"

Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

 

Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

Thanks,

Steve

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@...> wrote:
>
>
> John,
>
> I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
>
> • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
> • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
>
> First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
> Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
>
> Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
>
> If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
>
> When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
>
> Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
>
> Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
>
> What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
>
> Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
>
> After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
>
> Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
>
> A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
>
> Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
>
> I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
>
> Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
>
> What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
>
> I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
> >
> > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
> >
> > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
> >
> > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
> >
> > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
> >
> > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
> >
> > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
> >
> > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
> >
> > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
> >
> > Where should I start?
> >
> > Thanks in advance and happy winter
> >
> > JP
> >
>

____________________________________________________________
"Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
topwrinklecreamguide.com

I agree with David.  The impeller is the prime suspect.   A pretty easy

replacement job overall.  Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease

when you squeeze the thing into the housing.   This makes it much easier to fit

it in.  You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right

direction in the housing.



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@...> wrote:

>

> Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more

likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the

gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

> David L. Hastings

> 5608 W. Woodside Dr.

> Crystal River, FL 34429

> Home: 352-794-6440

> Cell: 315-345-2078

>

> On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@...> wrote:

>

> > Hi Steve

> > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

> > Check after each for water in the exhurst

> > Hans

> > "Last Dance"

> >

> > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

> >

> >

> > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

> >

> >>

> >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems,

but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in

the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern.

Where and what should I start checking?  I did check and clean the screen on the

filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap,

it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no

indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

> >>

> >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >>

> >> Steve

> >>

> >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > John,

> >> >

> >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and

I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will,

based on my experience.

> >> >

> >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive

potential problems.

> >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this,

tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)

> >> >

> >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past

spring?

> >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> >> >

> >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> >> >

> >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or

never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top

off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to

temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.

> >> >

> >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after

running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands

considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as

it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually

be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your

high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the

coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in

your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take

place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the

engine.

> >> >

> >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are

all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the

side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while

winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side

of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you

have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

> >> >

> >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here,

I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed

and commented.

> >> >

> >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you

accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you

saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on

them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does

the bilge smell of coolant?

> >> >

> >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place

to start. It can be replaced.

> >> >

> >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a

possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack,

the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This

is a relatively easy thing to check.

> >> >

> >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant

consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as

likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in

your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all

season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the

same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and

not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again,

after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> >> >

> >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> >> >

> >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat

last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14"

martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I

would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a

16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this.

Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you

make under power and at what rpm?

> >> >

> >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm

to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern,

but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this

fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in

still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my

engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem

and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right

up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The

source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at

least know what it is.

> >> >

> >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider

being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during

maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors

into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and

accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke.

If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel

will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine,

temporarily.

> >> >

> >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see

black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot.

It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous

of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it

might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned

fuel at start up that is the source.

> >> >

> >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> >> >

> >> > Bill

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> >> > >

> >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> >> > >

> >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze

in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely

any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> >> > >

> >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more

than 120 degrees.

> >> > >

> >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some

coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to

boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> >> > >

> >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom

from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could

be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some

experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..

> >> > >

> >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even

reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust.

This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out

at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the

exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> >> > >

> >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil)

although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and

running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer -

I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is

normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the

mystery of the coolant..

> >> > >

> >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

> >> > >

> >> > > Where should I start?

> >> > >

> >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> >> > >

> >> > > JP

> >> > >

> >> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ____________________________________________________________

> > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"

> > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.

> > topwrinklecreamguide.com

>

Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:

>

> I agree with David.  The impeller is the prime suspect.   A pretty easy

replacement job overall.  Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease

when you squeeze the thing into the housing.   This makes it much easier to fit

it in.  You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right

direction in the housing.

>

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:

> >

> > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more

likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the

gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.

> >

> > Sent from my iPad

> >

> > David L. Hastings

> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.

> > Crystal River, FL 34429

> > Home: 352-794-6440

> > Cell: 315-345-2078

> >

> > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Steve

> > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

> > > Check after each for water in the exhurst

> > > Hans

> > > "Last Dance"

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

> > >

> > >

> > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems,

but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in

the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern.

Where and what should I start checking?  I did check and clean the screen on the

filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap,

it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no

indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

> > >>

> > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

> > >>

> > >> Thanks,

> > >>

> > >> Steve

> > >>

> > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > John,

> > >> >

> > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance

and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will,

based on my experience.

> > >> >

> > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated

expensive potential problems.

> > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following

this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)

> > >> >

> > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past

spring?

> > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> > >> >

> > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> > >> >

> > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall

or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you

top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up

to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.

> > >> >

> > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after

running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands

considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as

it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually

be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your

high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the

coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in

your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take

place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the

engine.

> > >> >

> > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are

all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the

side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while

winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side

of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you

have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

> > >> >

> > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant

here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have

noticed and commented.

> > >> >

> > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you

accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you

saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on

them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does

the bilge smell of coolant?

> > >> >

> > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place

to start. It can be replaced.

> > >> >

> > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a

possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack,

the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This

is a relatively easy thing to check.

> > >> >

> > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant

consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as

likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in

your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all

season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the

same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and

not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again,

after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> > >> >

> > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> > >> >

> > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat

last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14"

martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I

would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a

16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this.

Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you

make under power and at what rpm?

> > >> >

> > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200

rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my

stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start

this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when

pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed.

So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the

problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire

right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water.

The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I

at least know what it is.

> > >> >

> > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider

being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during

maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors

into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and

accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke.

If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel

will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine,

temporarily.

> > >> >

> > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to

see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a

lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm

jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat

and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and

unburned fuel at start up that is the source.

> > >> >

> > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> > >> >

> > >> > Bill

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze

in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely

any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more

than 120 degrees.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some

coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to

boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the

transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible

cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking

some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not

even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the

exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and

maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black

smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is

this normal?

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil)

although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and

running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer -

I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is

normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the

mystery of the coolant..

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Where should I start?

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> > >> > >

> > >> > > JP

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________________________________________________________

> > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"

> > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.

> > > topwrinklecreamguide.com

> >

>

 

Thanks all, we will have a look and keep you posted.

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > David L. Hastings
> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> > Crystal River, FL 34429
> > Home: 352-794-6440
> > Cell: 315-345-2078
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Steve
> > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
> > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
> > > Hans
> > > "Last Dance"
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
> > >>
> > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > John,
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
> > >> >
> > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
> > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
> > >> >
> > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
> > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
> > >> >
> > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
> > >> >
> > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
> > >> >
> > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
> > >> >
> > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
> > >> >
> > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
> > >> >
> > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
> > >> >
> > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
> > >> >
> > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
> > >> >
> > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
> > >> >
> > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
> > >> >
> > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bill
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Where should I start?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
> > >> > >
> > >> > > JP
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
> > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
> > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
> >
>

Great call guys!  The impellor was missing two blades.  Of course, ours doesn't

look like the easy one on YouTube.  You have to remove the bracket and turn the

pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do

those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket

and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out

under my engine and going to the bilge!  I am out of time, (got an early flight

out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard.  If conditions

were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard

locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. 

Any thoughts or ideas?



Thanks,



Steve



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:

>

> I agree with David.  The impeller is the prime suspect.   A pretty easy

replacement job overall.  Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease

when you squeeze the thing into the housing.   This makes it much easier to fit

it in.  You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right

direction in the housing.

>

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:

> >

> > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more

likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the

gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.

> >

> > Sent from my iPad

> >

> > David L. Hastings

> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.

> > Crystal River, FL 34429

> > Home: 352-794-6440

> > Cell: 315-345-2078

> >

> > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:

> >

> > > Hi Steve

> > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

> > > Check after each for water in the exhurst

> > > Hans

> > > "Last Dance"

> > >

> > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

> > >

> > >

> > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:

> > >

> > >>

> > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems,

but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in

the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern.

Where and what should I start checking?  I did check and clean the screen on the

filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap,

it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no

indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.

> > >>

> > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

> > >>

> > >> Thanks,

> > >>

> > >> Steve

> > >>

> > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > John,

> > >> >

> > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance

and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will,

based on my experience.

> > >> >

> > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated

expensive potential problems.

> > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following

this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)

> > >> >

> > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past

spring?

> > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> > >> >

> > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> > >> >

> > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall

or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you

top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up

to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting

until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at

that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world

now over the winter.

> > >> >

> > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after

running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands

considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as

it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually

be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your

high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the

coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in

your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take

place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the

engine.

> > >> >

> > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are

all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the

side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while

winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side

of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you

have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?

> > >> >

> > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant

here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have

noticed and commented.

> > >> >

> > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you

accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you

saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on

them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does

the bilge smell of coolant?

> > >> >

> > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place

to start. It can be replaced.

> > >> >

> > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a

possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack,

the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This

is a relatively easy thing to check.

> > >> >

> > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant

consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as

likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in

your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all

season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the

same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and

not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again,

after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> > >> >

> > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate

causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> > >> >

> > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat

last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14"

martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I

would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a

16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this.

Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you

make under power and at what rpm?

> > >> >

> > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200

rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my

stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start

this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when

pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed.

So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the

problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire

right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water.

The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I

at least know what it is.

> > >> >

> > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider

being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during

maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors

into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and

accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke.

If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel

will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine,

temporarily.

> > >> >

> > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to

see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a

lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm

jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat

and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and

unburned fuel at start up that is the source.

> > >> >

> > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> > >> >

> > >> > Bill

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> >

> > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze

in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely

any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more

than 120 degrees.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some

coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to

boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the

transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible

cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking

some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not

even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the

exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and

maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black

smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is

this normal?

> > >> > >

> > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil)

although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and

running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer -

I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is

normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the

mystery of the coolant..

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Where should I start?

> > >> > >

> > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> > >> > >

> > >> > > JP

> > >> > >

> > >> >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > ____________________________________________________________

> > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"

> > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.

> > > topwrinklecreamguide.com

> >

>

OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, 

http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/

on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al.  I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany

last weekend and they went to work.  They said the pre-formed hose had been

overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it.  Once on, there was still no

discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a

graphite looking compound.  They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. 

They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th

Annual Dauphin Island Race,

http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/

and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not

turning the boat over and not running out of beer.)  He called me at work today

to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly

recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be

here until next week.

As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a cardinal

rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the 18 mile

course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind,  costing us probably ten

minutes.  Blaming it on jet lag...



Steve

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@... wrote:

>

> I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on

> principle. .....

>

> I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the

> water pump first.  If you have not change the Impeller in a few

> seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the

> impeller.

> IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old

> impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you

> have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better

> mechanic than me! )

>

> The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible!  but

> don't  run the motor until u have figured out the source of your

> trouble!

>

> Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big

> boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle).   But J28s are COOL, so I

> guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...

>

> Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!

>

> JP

> On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:

>

> > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,

> > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove

> > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm

> > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent

> > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it

> > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out

> > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an

> > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining

> > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would

> > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel

> > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or

> > ideas?

> >

> > Thanks,

> >

> > Steve

> >

> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:

> > >

> > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty

> > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good

> > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This

> > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have

> > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.

> > >

> > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings

> > <david.hastings@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be

> > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other

> > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a

> > couple of years ago without warning.

> > > >

> > > > Sent from my iPad

> > > >

> > > > David L. Hastings

> > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.

> > > > Crystal River, FL 34429

> > > > Home: 352-794-6440

> > > > Cell: 315-345-2078

> > > >

> > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > > Hi Steve

> > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

> > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst

> > > > > Hans

> > > > > "Last Dance"

> > > > >

> > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with

> > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds

> > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water

> > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start

> > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the

> > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

> > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the

> > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two

> > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without

> > water coming out, I turned it off.

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Thanks,

> > > > >>

> > > > >> Steve

> > > > >>

> > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > John,

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own

> > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts

> > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most

> > complicated expensive potential problems.

> > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time

> > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen

> > but might)

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off

> > this past spring?

> > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/

> > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start

> > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the

> > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load

> > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until

> > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with

> > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the

> > time in the world now over the winter.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level

> > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in

> > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold

> > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need

> > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to

> > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had

> > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level

> > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise

> > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack

> > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt

> > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the

> > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully

> > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,

> > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it

> > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near

> > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a

> > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they

> > leak?

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is

> > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort

> > that would have noticed and commented.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm

> > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might

> > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine

> > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the

> > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the

> > bilge smell of coolant?

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively

> > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest

> > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:

> > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out

> > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy

> > thing to check.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and

> > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think

> > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do

> > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a

> > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you

> > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no

> > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not

> > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,

> > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on

> > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too

> > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat

> > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at

> > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x

> > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a

> > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

> > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your

> > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the

> > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded

> > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and

> > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my

> > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine

> > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the

> > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine

> > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the

> > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she

> > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-

> > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope

> > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you

> > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and

> > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to

> > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up

> > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes

> > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you

> > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned

> > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as

> > overloading the engine, temporarily.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,

> > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the

> > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some

> > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep

> > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be

> > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at

> > start up that is the source.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > Bill

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>

> > wrote:

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the

> > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full

> > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never

> > got up more than 120 degrees.

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am

> > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat

> > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue

> > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know

> > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is

> > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to

> > conclusions..

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and

> > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of

> > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12

> > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and

> > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does

> > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or

> > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season

> > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall

> > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I

> > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo

> > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the

> > mystery of the coolant..

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/

> > foam or water

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > Where should I start?

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> > > JP

> > > > >> > >

> > > > >> >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"

> > > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find

> > Out Here.

> > > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

>

I experienced the same symptoms and traced the problem to the same place.  It

was time consuming since I started at the impeller, moved to the exchanger and

found elbow clogged. I always seem to find these problems in the last palace I

look.  The only cost was the price of a new gasket, about $5.

Marc

J/28 59



--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@...> wrote:

>

> OK, I have a great resource, Ed Wahl, at Eastern Shore Marine, 

http://www.easternshoremarineinc.com/

> on Fly Creek in Fairhope, Al.  I sent them an e-mail on the flight to Germany

last weekend and they went to work.  They said the pre-formed hose had been

overheated and was trashed, so they replaced it.  Once on, there was still no

discharge, so they removed it and found the mixing elbow was clogged with a

graphite looking compound.  They said they had never seen one clogged this bad. 

They cleaned it out and put it together so we could participate in the 55th

Annual Dauphin Island Race,

> http://55thdauphinislandrace.com/

> and we had a successful race in excellent weather. (Successful equals not

turning the boat over and not running out of beer.)  He called me at work today

to let me know that even they had patched it up for the race, he strongly

recommended that I OK a new gasket, which he had to order and it would not be

here until next week.

> As for results, we were 16th out of 34 boats, but the skipper ignored a

cardinal rule about always take the long tack first and over stood a mark on the

18 mile course by about one mile in a steadily clocking wind,  costing us

probably ten minutes.  Blaming it on jet lag...

>

> Steve

> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, sailingmaster@ wrote:

> >

> > I am a beginner at this....but i change my impeller every year just on

> > principle. .....

> >

> > I would double check the hoses and clamps running to and from the

> > water pump first.  If you have not change the Impeller in a few

> > seasons, you might have created a leak there when u changed the

> > impeller.

> > IF fhat does not solve your problem. The broken off blades of the old

> > impeller may be blocking off the heat exchanger, in which case you

> > have a bigger problem ( read expensive, unless you are a better

> > mechanic than me! )

> >

> > The good news is that Yanmars are practically indestuctible!  but

> > don't  run the motor until u have figured out the source of your

> > trouble!

> >

> > Wish I could be more help.....sometimes I wonder why I bought a big

> > boat and sold my racing dinghy (thistle).   But J28s are COOL, so I

> > guess in the long run, you take the good with the bad...

> >

> > Waiting to hear how you make out.....it will probably be me soon!!!

> >

> > JP

> > On Apr 19, 2013, at 10:47 PM, mcclurejsteven wrote:

> >

> > > Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course,

> > > ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove

> > > the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm

> > > socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent

> > > wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it

> > > up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out

> > > under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an

> > > early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining

> > > pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would

> > > have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel

> > > and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or

> > > ideas?

> > >

> > > Thanks,

> > >

> > > Steve

> > >

> > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty

> > > easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good

> > > waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This

> > > makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have

> > > the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.

> > > >

> > > > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings

> > > <david.hastings@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be

> > > slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other

> > > thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a

> > > couple of years ago without warning.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sent from my iPad

> > > > >

> > > > > David L. Hastings

> > > > > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.

> > > > > Crystal River, FL 34429

> > > > > Home: 352-794-6440

> > > > > Cell: 315-345-2078

> > > > >

> > > > > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > > Hi Steve

> > > > > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad

> > > > > > Check after each for water in the exhurst

> > > > > > Hans

> > > > > > "Last Dance"

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with

> > > no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds

> > > like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water

> > > coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start

> > > checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the

> > > intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow

> > > from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the

> > > radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two

> > > minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without

> > > water coming out, I turned it off.

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Thanks,

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> Steve

> > > > > >>

> > > > > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > John,

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own

> > > maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts

> > > first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most

> > > complicated expensive potential problems.

> > > > > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time

> > > following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen

> > > but might)

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off

> > > this past spring?

> > > > > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/

> > > don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start

> > > simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the

> > > overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load

> > > and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until

> > > spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with

> > > it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the

> > > time in the world now over the winter.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level

> > > closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in

> > > mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold

> > > when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need

> > > to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to

> > > compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had

> > > your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level

> > > will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise

> > > may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack

> > > and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt

> > > any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the

> > > coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully

> > > closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it,

> > > did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it

> > > into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near

> > > the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a

> > > hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they

> > > leak?

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is

> > > coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort

> > > that would have noticed and commented.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm

> > > thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might

> > > have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine

> > > compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the

> > > coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the

> > > bilge smell of coolant?

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively

> > > cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest

> > > seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie:

> > > pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out

> > > with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy

> > > thing to check.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and

> > > coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think

> > > this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do

> > > not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a

> > > very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you

> > > use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no

> > > visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not

> > > trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect,

> > > again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on

> > > intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too

> > > bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat

> > > and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at

> > > about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x

> > > 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a

> > > martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just

> > > interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your

> > > lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the

> > > higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded

> > > above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and

> > > still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my

> > > engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine

> > > pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the

> > > fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine

> > > even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the

> > > problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she

> > > would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-

> > > burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope

> > > to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you

> > > might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and

> > > down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to

> > > cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up

> > > and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes

> > > time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you

> > > throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned

> > > fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as

> > > overloading the engine, temporarily.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat,

> > > I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the

> > > boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some

> > > hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep

> > > it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be

> > > the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at

> > > start up that is the source.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > Bill

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@>

> > > wrote:

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the

> > > anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full

> > > but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never

> > > got up more than 120 degrees.

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am

> > > losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat

> > > causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue

> > > on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know

> > > another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is

> > > not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to

> > > conclusions..

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and

> > > could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of

> > > black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12

> > > and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and

> > > there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does

> > > however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or

> > > blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season

> > > (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall

> > > and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I

> > > mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo

> > > engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the

> > > mystery of the coolant..

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/

> > > foam or water

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > Where should I start?

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> > > JP

> > > > > >> > >

> > > > > >> >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > __________________________________________________________

> > > > > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"

> > > > > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find

> > > Out Here.

> > > > > > topwrinklecreamguide.com

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

 

Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,

Steve

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > David L. Hastings
> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> > Crystal River, FL 34429
> > Home: 352-794-6440
> > Cell: 315-345-2078
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Steve
> > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
> > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
> > > Hans
> > > "Last Dance"
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
> > >>
> > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > John,
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
> > >> >
> > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
> > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
> > >> >
> > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
> > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
> > >> >
> > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
> > >> >
> > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
> > >> >
> > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
> > >> >
> > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
> > >> >
> > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
> > >> >
> > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
> > >> >
> > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
> > >> >
> > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
> > >> >
> > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
> > >> >
> > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
> > >> >
> > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bill
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Where should I start?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
> > >> > >
> > >> > > JP
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > "Top 5 Wrinkle Creams?"
> > > Women: Mom Reveals Which Wrinkle Products Really Work. Find Out Here.
> > > topwrinklecreamguide.com
> >
>

 

Great call guys! The impellor was missing two blades. Of course, ours doesn't look like the easy one on YouTube. You have to remove the bracket and turn the pump over, and then I had to go by a 7mm socket, 'cause I didn't want to do those bolts with a crescent wrench. I put it all back together with a new gasket and cranked it up, but now the water that used to go out the stern is coming out under my engine and going to the bilge! I am out of time, (got an early flight out tomorrow and need to pack) plus it was raining pretty hard. If conditions were better and I had more time, I would have crawled down into the starboard locker and removed the panel and tried to see where the water was coming from. Any thoughts or ideas?

Thanks,

Steve

--- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "jhoagg123" <jhoagg123@...> wrote:
>
> I agree with David. The impeller is the prime suspect. A pretty easy replacement job overall. Use some winch grease or other good waterproof grease when you squeeze the thing into the housing. This makes it much easier to fit it in. You also must be sure you have the impeller blades pointed in the right direction in the housing.
>
> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, David Hastings <david.hastings@> wrote:
> >
> > Sounds like the impeller is gone. Water pump belt could be slipping but more likely the impeller needs replacement. One other thing, could simply be the gasket in the water pump. Mine gave out a couple of years ago without warning.
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > David L. Hastings
> > 5608 W. Woodside Dr.
> > Crystal River, FL 34429
> > Home: 352-794-6440
> > Cell: 315-345-2078
> >
> > On Apr 18, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Hans Andersen <hansandsharon@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Steve
> > > I would check the impeller the water pump the thermostad
> > > Check after each for water in the exhurst
> > > Hans
> > > "Last Dance"
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPod Hans Andersen
> > >
> > >
> > > On 2013-04-18, at 16:48, "mcclurejsteven" <mcclurejsteven@> wrote:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Within the last two weeks, we motored across Mobile Bay with no problems, but when I cranked my engine this weekend, it sounds like there is no water in the heat exchanger and there is no water coming out of the pipe on the stern. Where and what should I start checking? I did check and clean the screen on the filter by the intake valve. It is clean and I opened the valve and did get flow from the through hull, so that is not blocked. When I remove the radiator cap, it is full of coolent. I ran it for approximately two minutes, and there was no indication of overheating, but without water coming out, I turned it off.
> > >>
> > >> Any help would be appreciated. Big race next weekend!
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >>
> > >> Steve
> > >>
> > >> --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "wjmfoster" <wjmfoster@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > John,
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm no guru and I am not a mechanic. I do perform my own maintenance and I am an engineer by day. Here are a few thoughts first, mantras if you will, based on my experience.
> > >> >
> > >> > • Start simple/cheap first working up to the most complicated expensive potential problems.
> > >> > • Don't borrow trouble. (personally I have a hard time following this, tending to worry about the things that never happen but might)
> > >> >
> > >> > First off do you know if the coolant level was topped off this past spring?
> > >> > Was the overflow container full of coolant this past spring?
> > >> >
> > >> > Barring the answers to the above its hard to say what to do.
> > >> >
> > >> > If the answers to the above questions are, you don't know/don't recall or never checked, then following the mantra, start simple I would suggest you top off the coolant, draining the overflow tank for now. Then run the engine up to temperature/load and monitor the situation. This of course may mean waiting until spring and if you do find a problem then you will have to deal with it at that time. I know this may not be ideal as you have all the time in the world now over the winter.
> > >> >
> > >> > When you do run the engine, monitor the coolant level closely after running the engine for a few hours at temp. Keeping in mind the coolant expands considerably when hot. Ie: if it's cold when you check first and top it off, as it should be, you will need to wait for it to fully cool off again to actually be able to compare levels. This is also one reason why you may not have had your high temp alarm sound. As the engine warms that fluid level will rise as the coolant expands, more than you think too. This rise may have been sufficient in your case to fully cover the tube stack and permit effective cooling to take place, and if so then I doubt any harm was done on that side of things to the engine.
> > >> >
> > >> > Another thing to consider first, before topping off the coolant is, are all the peacock drains on the coolant system fully closed? There are some on the side of the engine for draining it, did you accidently open one while winterizing the engine? Drain it into the bilge? They are on the starboard side of the engine near the lift pump/dip stick, it's all in that same area. Do you have a hot water heater? If so, are the connections here sound or do they leak?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, the drip pan under the engine, is it clean/dry? Or is coolant here, I'm assuming no coolant is here as you sound the sort that would have noticed and commented.
> > >> >
> > >> > What about the bilge? Is there any coolant there? I'm thinking if you accidently opened the drain on the engine it might have not been something you saw in the darkness of the engine compartment, the drains have little hoses on them that take the coolant down to the bilge beside the engine foundation. Does the bilge smell of coolant?
> > >> >
> > >> > Next, as you suggest, the radiator cap is a relatively cheap/easy place to start. It can be replaced.
> > >> >
> > >> > After the above is all verified, then I would suggest seeing about a possible coolant leak in the cooler itself. Ie: pressure test the tube stack, the coolant might just be going out with the seawater via a pin hole leak. This is a relatively easy thing to check.
> > >> >
> > >> > Then I would move onto worrying about the head gasket and coolant consumption via the engine. But I personally don't think this is nearly as likely as any of the above. Plus, you note you do not see white smoke/steam in your exhaust. But again, if this were a very tiny leak it might have taken all season with all the hours you use your boat to consume the coolant and at the same time why no visible steam was noted in your exhaust. Pure conjecture and not trying to make you worry but just offering a possible cause/effect, again, after ruling out the easy stuff is my suggestion.
> > >> >
> > >> > A mechanic may also be able to offer some advice on intermediate causes/sources of the issue I may be overlooking.
> > >> >
> > >> > Your comment re: over propped is a very good one. I too bought my boat last fall and this is my first season with the boat and I agree the 16" x 14" martec is far too much prop. I max out at about 2400 rpm blowing smoke. So I would like to drop down to a 14 x 12, but it sounds like you are doing ok with a 16 x 12? Is this a martec elliptic or the older style martec folding wheel? Just interested in what change I should make as I want to follow your lead on this. Do you find the vibration/noise a problem at the higher rpm's? What speed do you make under power and at what rpm?
> > >> >
> > >> > I too have a ton of black smoke when the engine Is loaded above 2200 rpm to 2400 rpm. I operate at 1800 to 2000 rpm now, and still have grim on my stern, but personally I have traced this to my engine having been hard to start this fall. My issue was my engine pull/stop/fuel shut off cable even when pressed in still had the fuel shut off lever on the fuel pump partially closed. So my engine even with wide open throttle would not start. Once I found the problem and manually pulled the fuel stop lever on the fuel pump she would fire right up, but still bump out some black smoke and un-burned fuel onto the water. The source of my dirty transom. I hope to rectify the problem this winter, but I at least know what it is.
> > >> >
> > >> > Also a possible source of smoke/unburned fuel stains you might consider being your cause, can be rapid throttling up and down, common during maneuvering. The diesel fuel pump will try to cram more fuel via the injectors into the cylinders to throttle up and the engine will try to burn it and accelerate, but this takes time, and only so much fuel can be burned per stroke. If you throttle up rapidly there will be lag and during this time unburned fuel will be exhausted. This is the same sort of thing as overloading the engine, temporarily.
> > >> >
> > >> > What I'm getting at here, is that, regardless of the boat, I tend to see black stains around the exhaust, especially if the boat is white and used a lot. It certainly sounds like you put some hours on your boat/engine and I'm jealous of that, so I would keep it in mind that you have been using the boat and it might as much be the number of hours and combustion by products and unburned fuel at start up that is the source.
> > >> >
> > >> > I do hope some of this helps, sorry for the verbal diarrhea.
> > >> >
> > >> > Bill
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --- In J28Sailors@yahoogroups.com, "John" <sailingmaster@> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I need some advice from the Yanmar gurus amongst the group.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I was winterizing the engine last week and found that the anti freeze in the engine was empty. The overflow reservoir was full but there was barely any coolent in the heat exchanger.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Last summer the engine ran fine and the temp gauge never got up more than 120 degrees.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am hoping that 1) i have a bad radiator cap and am losing some coolant to evaporation or 2) possibly a bad thermostat causing the coolant to boil out and into the overflow reservoir.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I am troubled though that I still get some black residue on the transom from the exhaust....this is the bad news as I know another possible cause could be the head gasket....I hope this is not the case and am seeking some experienced advice before I jump to conclusions..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Originally, when I got the boat. It was over-propped and could not even reach 2600 rpm, at that point I would get a lot of black smoke in the exhaust. This summer I changed to a martec 16X12 and the engine runs great and maxes out at 32-3400 (yanmar tach) and there is a slight amount of grey/black smoke in the exhaust. It does however result in a grimey looking transom...is this normal?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I never see white smoke at start up (anti freeze?) or blue (oil) although I do burn about .75 -1 quart of oil per season (April 1-Nov 1 and running the diesel 2-3 days in spring and fall and 4-5 days per week in summer - I live aboard July and Aug) I mention all of this in the hopes that this is normal on a 27 yo engine and the hopes that you guys can help me zero in on the mystery of the coolant..
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Finaly, When I check the oil, I see no sign of bubbles/foam or water
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Where should I start?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Thanks in advance and happy winter
> > >> > >
> > >> > > JP
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
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