I'm interested in having a costumer make an outfit that Leonardo Da Vinci might
have worn. I'm looking for illustrations of outfits worn in the mid 1400's.
Would you have suggestions?

As always, so many of us who enjoy the
Renaissance -- esp. Italian -- consult the Web Gallery of
Art.<br><br><a href=http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/
target=new>http://www.kfki.hu/~arthp/</a><br><br>"The Web Gallery of Art is a
virtual museum and
searchable database of European painting and sculpture of
the Gothic, Renaissance and Baroque periods
(1150-1800), currently containing over 9,200 reproductions."

Hi all

I know that Cotton was not around in the time we bring forth, or I
should say not as prevalent as it is today.  In fact I hear they made
cheap common fabric with wool!


So I have been using linen for a little while, and MAN! the wrinkles
and stuff I have to deal with and the loss of color oh! and the
continuing shrinkage!


I am more ready to go with a good satin or silk!

But for tourney garb I am still working with cotton, I am going for
the Twills than the lighter cotton.

Anyone work with this?


Cilean

Hi all

I was hoping to get people to speak up!

Anyone doing anything for the tourney season???


Cilean

Hi,
Can you tell me what the "Tourney" season is?
Yes, I am working on a mid1500's gown for S faire.I have a camicia
made with some wounderful linen, a partlet from some of grandmas old
fabric and a petticaoat. I'm now trying to get my bodice finished.Is
this a sin?, I have decided to trim the edges with piping.I can't
help myself.
Elizabeth

Hi elizabeth,

I was speaking of the SCA camping/tourney season.  Sorry about the
confusion.  I really think Italian is the way to go with movement and
style.  Another love I have is early Elizabethan! It makes me very
happy to wear either of the sections for life.

You are wearing a 'partlet' for your Italian?  What colors are you
doing?  Are you attempting to make them from a portrait??


I think I need to save up and get some italian cotton or some silk I
found at one merchants in Oregon.

I would LOVE to see your finished product!


Cilean

Hi Celean,
I still consider myself a noveice when it comes to historically
accurate costuming.My history with costumes comes from halloween,
then small faires then married a man who doesn't care about
being "period". So, just in the last couple of years have I been
doing more serious research. Mostly mid- late Victorian.
Yes, I did make a partlet.In my grandmas stuff was this beautifly
embroidered old fabric that turned out quite nice (I think) for the
partlet.Ivory on ivory.  I started this gown because I found a nice
piece of cotton velvet.I think I am going to be sorry.My last
renfaire costume was a knockoff of the ( grossly inacurate) courtesan
from Dangerous Beauty. Fun and cool to wear. So I know I wont get
much wear from this unless we have a overcast May.
So, reddish brown velvet with a the lightest peach piping and silk
trim.A pretty jaquared wide trim onthe bodice. With a old gold with
red center trim on the skirt.The jaquard was way too expensive.Chris
would have a cow (he was with me when I bought it).Number one
lesson "Don't take your husband shopping with you.
The bodice is opened front about 6" .I will attach the skirt. I guess
to make this look right from my research I will need to make a muslin
covered placket for the bodice. Boy, I'm just goin on and on. Sorry.
I have a folder of pics I have collected and am going from there.
Next year I will have more time (and some beautiful teal brocade set
aside)for another try at it.

Hi
I'm new.  I have been in the SCA for almost 3 years now.  I am now
going to start my first real attempt at period garb and I have chosen
an
early italian renaissance (high waist)  my problem is I can't find any
good pics of sleves and I would like to have real sleves not the
gontlet
(sp) things.  Can any one help me. :(

Check out jean Hunnisett's book on costuming for that period, she has
some great great thoughts on sleeves.


Have you tried the Italian Costuming place


http://www.geocities.com/leonadeste/renbk/rendressbook.html


try this link and see if you can get some help on it!

Cilean

You might also try the Italian Persona list for some advice on Ren
Italian costumimg:
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ItalianPersona

I'm sorry, but early Ren. Italian is not my area of expertise, nor am
I much of an expert in sewing myself, anyway.

Best Wishes,
-Juliana di Rossi

--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., "mdvlwnch" <Wbrighoff@c...>
wrote:
> Hi
> I'm new.  I have been in the SCA for almost 3 years now.  I am now
> going to start my first real attempt at period garb and I have
chosen
> an
> early italian renaissance (high waist)  my problem is I can't find
any
> good pics of sleves and I would like to have real sleves not the
> gontlet
> (sp) things.  Can any one help me. :(

--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., "mdvlwnch" <Wbrighoff@c...>
wrote:
> Hi
> I'm new.  I have been in the SCA for almost 3 years now.  I am now
> going to start my first real attempt at period garb and I have
chosen
> an
> early italian renaissance (high waist)  my problem is I can't find
any
> good pics of sleves and I would like to have real sleves not the
> gontlet
> (sp) things.  Can any one help me. :(

If you need a pattern, please use this one rather than the many
Simplicity ones currently available.
http://www.mediaevalmisc.com/patterns.htm
You can get it most cheaply at the Pillaged Village site at:
http://www.mediaevalmisc.com/patterns.htm
It's been some years since I've worked with them and they are pretty
advanced/difficult but are still the best patterns for authentic
looking costumes out there.  And the copious historical notes are a
great bonus.
Also, I strongly suggest visiting:
http://homepage.mac.com/festive_attyre/research/index.html
and chacking out her Florentine Dress diary.  This is an absolutely
wonderful site with many helpful hints and suggestions. And you can
see me on it at the Featured Attyre page! :)
Good luck!
Lucia

Greetings from Briana Etain MacKorkhill,

I just joined the list last week and wanted to introduce myself. I
have been in the SCA for almost 20 years and have always had a
passion for Italian Renaissance clothing. It was so great when I
found out that there was a discussion group on it.

Our local Canton is hosting an event in August that is late 16th
century and a group of us are putting together courtesan garb for it.
We have just started and it's been a lot of fun so far.

Once we have worked out all the bugs out, I'm thinking of putting
together a class to teach at a RUSH session (our university) or at a
war. We'll see.

I have enjoyed the conversations so far and look forward to getting
involved in some of the discussions in the future.

In service,

Briana Etain MacKorkhill
Baroness Forgotten Sea

--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., "brianaetain"
<brianaetain@y...> wrote:
>
> Our local Canton is hosting an event in August that is late 16th
> century and a group of us are putting together courtesan garb for
it.

Have you also tried the Courtesan Group?  That is another good list
for info on Period Courtesans and also late-period Italian garb.

-Juliana di Rossi

Hey, anybody planning on going to So.Faire this year? I would love to
meet some locals.I am almost done with my gown. Couldn't find the
brocade I would like to have used so I opted for velveteen. I think I
am going to regret this when it gets to be 90* out there!
Elizabeth

Hi all,

I keep saying this but...I needed a new list like I need a hole in
the head, but, what can I say...I can't help myself! :)

My name is Bella Lucia da Verona, (SCA) and I know at least a couple
of you from other lists. (HI!)

I've been researching Venetian clothing for about one and a half
years now, and sewing for about a year (although for financial
reasons I've only made four Venetian dresses. My first event was in
April 2001, one year ago almost. I specialise (a dirty word I know)
in 16th century Venetian clothing, and I have a website dedicated to
the research and design side of making Venetian garb. Currently (when
I'm not sewing for an event) I'm working on other pages on
construction, accessories, courtesans etc. Yes, I have a courtesan
persona, and a courtesan list.

I have read all the past messages and noticed some interest in Venice
and courtesans, so if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to do my
best to answer them. Until then I happily lurk and enjoy this Italian
obsession we share.


Bella

welcome Bella,


I am honored to have you in my group! It is me Cilean!

Everyone?? this lady is wonderful and she is very knowledgable and
please make her feel welcome.  I am only sorry I can't come down to
Australia in July for the coronation.  We have been planning but my
finances did not come through I was so hoping to meet you !!!


Cilean

  In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., "bella_lucia_da_verona"
<bella_lucia_da_verona@y...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I keep saying this but...I needed a new list like I need a hole in
> the head, but, what can I say...I can't help myself! :)
>
> My name is Bella Lucia da Verona, (SCA) and I know at least a
couple
> of you from other lists. (HI!)
>
> I've been researching Venetian clothing for about one and a half
> years now, and sewing for about a year (although for financial
> reasons I've only made four Venetian dresses. My first event was in
> April 2001, one year ago almost. I specialise (a dirty word I know)
> in 16th century Venetian clothing, and I have a website dedicated
to
> the research and design side of making Venetian garb. Currently
(when
> I'm not sewing for an event) I'm working on other pages on
> construction, accessories, courtesans etc. Yes, I have a courtesan
> persona, and a courtesan list.
>
> I have read all the past messages and noticed some interest in
Venice
> and courtesans, so if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to do
my
> best to answer them. Until then I happily lurk and enjoy this
Italian
> obsession we share.
>
>
> Bella

Elizabeth!

I am actually in No cali but I was trying to get down there with some
friends to have some fun.

I am still working on it!

Cilean


--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., elizarosev <no_reply@y...>
wrote:
> Hey, anybody planning on going to So.Faire this year? I would love
to
> meet some locals.I am almost done with my gown. Couldn't find the
> brocade I would like to have used so I opted for velveteen. I think
I
> am going to regret this when it gets to be 90* out there!
> Elizabeth

--- aubergine_dreams <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
wrote:

welcome Bella,

I am honored to have you in my group! It is me Cilean!

Everyone?? this lady is wonderful and she is very
knowledgable and please make her feel welcome. I am
only sorry I can't come down to Australia in July for
the coronation. We have been planning but my
finances did not come through I was so hoping to meet
you !!!<<<<


Thank you Cilean for the warm welcome and kind words.
:) I'm not sure if I'll make it to Coronation myself -
I'm hoping, but finances will be very tight the next
couple of months. I do so want to be there for the
crowing of our first King and Queen! :)

Bella



http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!

Welcome to the group Bella!  Can you post your web page link please?
I am very interested in looking at it.

Kate'


--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., "bella_lucia_da_verona"
<bella_lucia_da_verona@y...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I keep saying this but...I needed a new list like I need a hole in
> the head, but, what can I say...I can't help myself! :)
>
> My name is Bella Lucia da Verona, (SCA) and I know at least a
couple
> of you from other lists. (HI!)
>
> I've been researching Venetian clothing for about one and a half
> years now, and sewing for about a year (although for financial
> reasons I've only made four Venetian dresses. My first event was in
> April 2001, one year ago almost. I specialise (a dirty word I know)
> in 16th century Venetian clothing, and I have a website dedicated
to
> the research and design side of making Venetian garb. Currently
(when
> I'm not sewing for an event) I'm working on other pages on
> construction, accessories, courtesans etc. Yes, I have a courtesan
> persona, and a courtesan list.
>
> I have read all the past messages and noticed some interest in
Venice
> and courtesans, so if anyone has any questions I'll be happy to do
my
> best to answer them. Until then I happily lurk and enjoy this
Italian
> obsession we share.
>
>
> Bella

--- scarlet_hunter <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Welcome to the group Bella! Can you post your web page
link please?
I am very interested in looking at it.<<<<<

Thanks Kate, sure - it's in my signature file. :)

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I hail from the
Barony of Innilgard, Lochac, which in mundane terms is
Adelaide, South Australia.


=====
Lady Bella Lucia da Verona
Innilgard, Lochac

Clothing in 16th Century Venice
http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona
Owner, Courtesan E-mail Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Courtesan

http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!

Hello everyone!

I'm not an SCA member but I love the Italian Renaissance.  The
dresses are the most romantic that I have ever seen.  I have been a
seamtress since 10 and I sew for fun and sometimes for RenFair garb.
From the post and files this seems to be a lovely group.

Unes*

Cilean,
I hope you can make it.I would love to meet you. I think I am going
to make the deadline! Just some accessory stuff and stitching the
skirt to the waistband(how many hours?)and I will be finished.I will
get a picture up for all to pic at. It is my first Venetian and I'm
afraid it still isn't exactly right.Sometimes it takes an outsider to
clearify things.Well, there is always next year.
Elizabeth

Hi Bella,
So happy to share with you! I just  joined your Courtesan group a
couple of days ago.Thank you or all the time you dedicate in your
research for all of us to enjoy and benefit from. We corresponded a
few time when I first started my Venetaian. Thanks again for your
help. I'll let you know how the hair turns out.If it aint right I
wont wear it. Here goes.......
Elizabeth

... for such a great group!  :)  I'm Caterine, been in the SCA 12
years (Cynagua, West Kingdom), and doing Faires for a little longer
than that (Scots Nobles) and have been wanting to do Italians for
the past five years! I finally got some done this last winter for
12th Night, and as my Lord Sweetie is Italian, I am hooked on it,
both the garb and possibly the persona. I am in a frenzy of making
light-weight linen Italians for the summer's SCA events, mostly late
1400's.

What I am REALLY interested in is making some Faire-legal Italians
for Northern and the smaller Faires (assuming we HAVE Northern Faire
this year...). Any of you Faire Folks have good ideas/ tips on
making Italians for Faire that A)won't keel me over from the heat,
and B)will be accurate for Faire and C) not completely difficult to
make?? I am just now learning to sew (yes, after 12 years!) and I
have a best friend who is reeeeally good at it, so I know she'll be
doing the elabourate stuff for me for awhile. I don't have a Guild
nowadays, so I don't have to worry as much about getting the Faire
costume-nazis on my case, but I still want it utterly accurate of
course! (and yes, Bella's website kicks amazing amounts of booty...)
While we're at it, anyone good with late-period Germans here?

Caterine (who is busty and hourglass-y and has a challenging time
with garb...)

--- empathia50 <Empathia50@...> wrote:

Hello everyone!

I'm not an SCA member but I love the Italian
Renaissance. The dresses are the most romantic that I
have ever seen. I have been a seamtress since 10 and I
sew for fun and sometimes for RenFair garb.
From the post and files this seems to be a lovely
group.

Unes*<<<<<

Hi there, I'm new here myself but I just had to say
that I agree with you - I read every past message and
this is a happy friendly bunch of people. :)

May I just ask why you don't play in the SCA? :)


Bella


http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!

--- elizarosev <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Cilean,
I hope you can make it.I would love to meet you. I
think I am going to make the deadline! Just some
accessory stuff and stitching the skirt to the
waistband(how many hours?)and I will be finished.I
will get a picture up for all to pic at. It is my
first Venetian and I'm afraid it still isn't exactly
right.Sometimes it takes an outsider to clearify
things.Well, there is always next year.
Elizabeth<<<<<


You're sewing a Venetian? Woo-hoo! I'd love to see it
when you're finished. If it helps any, my first
Venetian wasn't exactly right either, despite much
research - sewing and wearing gives you a remarkable
amount of insight. :)

Bella


http://messenger.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Messenger
- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!

--- elizarosev <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Hi Bella,
So happy to share with you! I just joined your
Courtesan group a couple of days ago.Thank you or all
the time you dedicate in your research for all of us
to enjoy and benefit from. We corresponded a few time
when I first started my Venetaian. Thanks again for
your help. I'll let you know how the hair turns out.If
it aint right I wont wear it. Here goes.......
Elizabeth<<<<<


Hi, and thanks for the kind words. I only wish I could
dedicate *more* time to research - there hasn't been
much time lately. But then if I don't go to Coronation
in July I'll have some free time after the feast on
the 4th May so might get a lot more done on the
"how-to-sew-Venetian-clothing" side of things for my
site.

As for the hair - I hope it works out, but even if it
doesn't go for it. More of us should be attempting
this cool style. :) I've only seen one lady do it and
it wasn't too convincing simply because the cones were
the wrong shape - they were too pointy. But it still
looked cool. :)

Oh, that reminds me, in the message archive I saw some
discussion as to whether only courtesans wore the
horned hairdo - the answer is no. Most ladies of the
high nobility wore it, and courtesans dressed just
like them. Here are some of Vecellio's woodcuts and an
engraving and portrait for your viewing pleasure:

"Young married woman of Venice in Acension holiday
dress"(small horns but still there):
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50203.gif>

"Young married woman of the Venetian nobility":
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50204.gif>

"Winter costume of Venetian noblewomen and wealthy
ladies" (once again, smaller horns):
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50205.gif>

"Venetian noblewoman dressed for visiting S.Pietro di
Castello during Lent":
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50206.gif>

"Venetian noblewoman dressed for a public
celebration":
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50207.gif>

"Current dress of Venetian noblewomen":
<http://www.costumes.org/history/broderbund/boo/BOO50214.gif>

An engraving:
"Venetian Debutante":
<http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/venetiandebutante.jpg>

A portrait (this is one of my very favourite pics):
"Circa 1581-1584, Domenico Robusti: Portrait of a Lady
in White":
<http://au.geocities.com/bella_lucia_da_verona/RobustiWhite.jpg>


Bella





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- A great way to communicate long-distance for FREE!

--- sister_dark_swan <sister_dark_swan@...>
wrote:

<snipped>(and yes, Bella's website kicks amazing
amounts of booty...)<<<

Oh my - thank you! :)

>>>While we're at it, anyone good with late-period
Germans here?<<<<

I'm not sure about there being someone on this list,
but on the SCA-Garb list there is a very knowledgable
lady who is the owner of the Frazzled Frau site:

http://frazzledfrau.tripod.com/

>>>Caterine (who is busty and hourglass-y and has a
challenging time with garb...)<<<


Heh...I'm just big all over! :)


Bella
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I have a lot of linnen cotton blend dress in my wardrobe.  the usual
mix is 55% 45%, this is a great mix and helps keep the costs down
too.  the tendancy is for it to crease, unavoudable really.  One
thing I have found that helps is to hang it out wet on a hanger.  the
weight of the water pulls the creases out and reduces the need for
ironing.

Some of these clothing pieces I have had for over 5 years, and have
not shrunk in all that time.  I do however cold wash only and, pre
wash all my fabrics, regardless of fibre content prior to making up.

Hope this helps,

Cheers

Deb



--- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y..., aubergine_dreams
<no_reply@y...> wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I know that Cotton was not around in the time we bring forth, or I
> should say not as prevalent as it is today.  In fact I hear they
made
> cheap common fabric with wool!
>
>
> So I have been using linen for a little while, and MAN! the
wrinkles
> and stuff I have to deal with and the loss of color oh! and the
> continuing shrinkage!
>
>
> I am more ready to go with a good satin or silk!
>
> But for tourney garb I am still working with cotton, I am going for
> the Twills than the lighter cotton.
>
> Anyone work with this?
>
>
> Cilean

I have to weigh in on this.  I've been doing Italian
Renn (Florentine, late 15th century) for three years
and in the last year have moved over to using 100%
linen instead of cotton for summer weight dresses.  I
buy online and can usually find 100% 54" linen of
various weights and colors for between $6-7 a yard.
This may seem a lot more than cotton but the only
cotton available at the local stores tends to be
handkerchief weight or calico prints.  What's more,
I've found there is a huge difference in the comfort
level between wearing cotton and linen (suggestion, if
you want to get the full benefit of linen, then your
all your layers need to be of linen.  One layer of
something that doesn't breathe as well and you've
nulled the linen benefit.)

I find linen by far cooler than cotton and the wrinkle
factor isn't any different.  I've never had my linen
shrink or bleed, either.  And I sweat lots in it, too!
  I live in the Barony of Stargate in Ansteorra and
most of our outdoor events take place in 85 plus
degree pweather with 70% humidity so there's lots of
sweat.

The first thing I do with my linen is set the color
using lots of kosher salt.  Then I wash the linen in
extremely hot water so it can go ahead and shrink and
do what it likes.  Once the garment is finished, it's
only washed in cold water.

Niccola Setaro

--- curvess2000 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> I have a lot of linnen cotton blend dress in my
> wardrobe.  the usual
> mix is 55% 45%, this is a great mix and helps keep
> the costs down
> too.  the tendancy is for it to crease, unavoudable
> really.  One
> thing I have found that helps is to hang it out wet
> on a hanger.  the
> weight of the water pulls the creases out and
> reduces the need for
> ironing.
>
> Some of these clothing pieces I have had for over 5
> years, and have
> not shrunk in all that time.  I do however cold wash
> only and, pre
> wash all my fabrics, regardless of fibre content
> prior to making up.
>
> Hope this helps,
>
> Cheers
>
> Deb
>
>
>
> --- In italianrenaissancecostuming@y...,
> aubergine_dreams
> <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> > Hi all
> >
> > I know that Cotton was not around in the time we
> bring forth, or I
> > should say not as prevalent as it is today.  In
> fact I hear they
> made
> > cheap common fabric with wool!
> >
> >
> > So I have been using linen for a little while, and
> MAN! the
> wrinkles
> > and stuff I have to deal with and the loss of
> color oh! and the
> > continuing shrinkage!
> >
> >
> > I am more ready to go with a good satin or silk!
> >
> > But for tourney garb I am still working with
> cotton, I am going for
> > the Twills than the lighter cotton.
> >
> > Anyone work with this?
> >
> >
> > Cilean
>
>
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>
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