It is two though I can understand why your friend thinks its one.

Somewhat similar
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Sandro_Botticelli_-_weiBl
iches_Brustbild.png

http://tinyurl.com/ysdqd5

woman in white
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sandro_Botticelli_027.jpg

probably the common style of dress.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Sandro_Botticelli_068.jpg

This is a bigger picture
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Sandro_Botticelli_066.jpg
problem is that Botticelli was not as detailed as other artist of the time.
The bands across the black could be black and gold lacing. Because of other
pictures other the period indicates to me that it is two gowns but I am not
closed to the possibility that it is one gown.

De

-----Original Message-----

  What do you think? Is this an over dress and an under dress or one
dress with two fabrics?  My vote is for 2 dresses but a friend thinks it
is 1.

http://funkurl.com/qbgb

Victoria


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

For things Venice, I recommend these sites
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/

http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/index2.html
De

-----Original Message-----
Yes, sorry,  we were talking about Venice.  Can you elaborate on "style of
gown."  Thank you.

Celonise and Rizardo, in Trelac of Ansteorra

Stunning! That's absolutely stunning, Oonagh!

Brava!

Tamara


--- Susan Griner <susang45@...> wrote:

> I really like that. You made it look so elegant. The
> time you put into the details really paid
> off.
> Susan
> --- In
> Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com,
> "Oonagh ONeill"
> <oonaghme@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well different for me at any rate.
> >
> > I've made a new outfit, a Romanesque ensemble.
> Have a look if you
> > like
> http://au.geocities.com/oonaghsowned/romanesque.htm
> >
> > Enjoy
> >
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Deb
> > (Oonagh)
> > [Pagar le Pompe]
> >
> > Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress
> Laurel [from the skin
> > out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth
> century
> > http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown



________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
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jubileel_insaneone wrote:
> Since I've always gotta be a bit different,  I'm going to say it's a
> red dress with black binding or a placket underneath.
> And to back me up a bit:
> http://cadieux.mediumaevum.com/burgundian-placket.html
>
> The Burgundian gown was at about the same time period of the painting.
>  That, and a couple of the gowns she shows on that page are Italian
> and from just a slight bit (5-10 years?) later.  So, placket or binding.
>
The black may indeed be a placket/stomacher.  But it's still likely to
be two gowns, with the placket covering the laces of the undergown.

--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

Chris Catalfamo wrote:
> I want to make a small balzo ca. 1536. Does one have to use a reed frame?
>
>


Well... I don't.

--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

Well, sadly, no. There are no commerical patterns available. And
frankly, I don't know of any non-commercial ones for this out there
either. This is pretty advanced costuming and you will need to
pattern it yourself.

However, there is some good research out there in the forms of
websites of other people who have done this type of gown before.
Here's some I know about. I'm sure others will chime in:

http://www.festiveattyre.com/gallery/venetian/index.html
Jennifer does some beautiful work here, and finds a good answer for
how to get the lacings correct.

http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/index.html
Oonagh knows more about later period Venetian than I ever shall and
her web site is very helpful. Make sure you go here: http://
www.geocities.com/technically_naked/gruesome_truth.htm For
information on how to do the undergarments. The gown you are looking
at WAS definitely corseted, and is very difficult to do without one.
(You would have to bone the hell out of the gown and hope that the
lady wearing it was of small stature)

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/library.htm
Bella has some excellent articles on her work and also her site
features the showcase, which is a wealth of information for many,
many costumers.

You have chosen a challenging era, but an especially lovely one. Good
luck,

Catalina Doro
On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:03 AM, rizardo dartusio wrote:

> Ok, lovely paintings and yes we can see a difference, but we're not
> seeing how they closed. The ones from Venice look like there is a
> panel in front, but we're not seeing the closure. Were they laced,
> hooked, buttoned? And, where in the front would they have closed---
> on one side, both or middle? If we were trying to recreate them, is
> there some kind of pattern or info in how to make this kind of
> dress closure?
>
> Celonise and Rizardo
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: otsisto <otsisto@...>
> To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:53:29 PM
> Subject: RE: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Question of lacing
>
> As Catalina pointed out, it depends on where in the Italian states
> you are
> talking about. You have Venice
> http://realmofvenus .renaissanceital y.net/wardrobe/ artgallery4. htm
> which is mostly front openings. Florence fashion seemed to be leaning
> towards side and back openings.
> 1560 Milan
> http://commons. wikimedia. org/wiki/ Image:Moroni_ Nicoloinis. jpg
> Milan/Moroni
> http://pintura. aut.org/BU04? Autnum=11. 727
>
> De
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Where 1570's?
>
> In Venice front lacing for this time was the norm. It' REALLY depends
> on where, and what style gown you are recreating.
>
> Catalina Doro
> East Kingdom
>
> On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:57 PM, rizardo dartusio wrote:
>
> > Can anyone offer an opinion of side versus back or front lacing on
> > women's dresses. We were told side lacing was the norm and that
> > front lacing (for the Italians) would have been reserved for the
> > less noble. We're doing the 1570's Italian. Would there have been a
> > norm for this then.
> >
> > Celonise and Rizardo
>
> __________________________________________________________
> Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
> someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I do not know why people refer to this painting as Lucrezia when it is "a
woman holding up a drawing of Lucrezia". Anyway, there is at least one dress
diary online for the dress.
I have fabric layed aside for a similar dress.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Lorenzo_Lotto_046.jpg

-----Original Message-----

I am so so so sooory. :( I never thought to tell you that.  My brain
is being fried from all this heat.  The artist is Lorenzo Lotto and
the picture is Lucretia.  I like this site for examining dresses
because you can zoom in on areas of interest.
Cassandra of the melted brain

Maybe this will help
http://festiveattyre.com/research/venetian/index.html
  This
http://www.margospatterns.com/
click on the Elizabethan Lady's pattern. You can adapt use this pattern to
help you. a wee bit expensive but a well researched pattern.
De

-----Original Message-----
I'm glad you clarified that there are so many styles, but as newbies we
still don't know what kind of closure went with each type of gown.  For
example are you saying that a noble woman's gown from Venice would close in
the front, but her house gown would close in some other way?  And, for
people who don't create their own patterns is there some pattern help out
there to clarify all this.

Celonise and Rizardo


----- Original Message ----
From: Heather Rigaud <hmarkle@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 10:55:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Question of lacing

I will suggest that you visit Bella's site , specifically here:
http://realmofvenus .renaissanceital y.net/wardrobe/ artgallery4. htm

This is a collection of Venetian art from the era you focusing on.
On it, you will see that almost all the gowns are front laced. It's
also important to notice where the art is from. My personal rule is
If it looks 'different' it's probably from Bergamo. <ggg> My Laurel
(a Comedia d' arte performer) fails over laughing every time I say
this. :)

In Venice, in the 1570's, front laced gowns seemed to be most common,
especially by noble or rich women. In other parts of Italy, this
might would not be so.

When I ask 'what style' I mean is it for court? is it a noblewoman's
public gown? is it her house gown? is it a middle class woman's gown?
is it a courtian's gown? All of these would be different, and it's
important for you to be clear in your goals as you work on your project.

Good luck with your work,

Catalina Doro

On Aug 27, 2007, at 11:26 PM, rizardo dartusio wrote:

> Yes, sorry, we were talking about Venice. Can you elaborate on
> "style of gown." Thank you.
>
> Celonise and Rizardo, in Trelac of Ansteorra
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Heather Rigaud <hmarkle@hvc. rr.com>
> To: Italian_Renaissance _Costuming@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:01:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Question of lacing
>
> Where 1570's?
>
> In Venice front lacing for this time was the norm. It' REALLY depends
> on where, and what style gown you are recreating.
>
> Catalina Doro
> East Kingdom
>
> On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:57 PM, rizardo dartusio wrote:
>
> > Can anyone offer an opinion of side versus back or front lacing on
> > women's dresses. We were told side lacing was the norm and that
> > front lacing (for the Italians) would have been reserved for the
> > less noble. We're doing the 1570's Italian. Would there have been a
> > norm for this then.
> >
> > Celonise and Rizardo
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> > Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from
> > someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
> > http://answers. yahoo.com/ dir/?link= list&sid= 396545433
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative
> vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
> http://autos. yahoo.com/ green_center/
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






____________________________________________________________________________
________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




Yahoo! Groups Links

Adele, some of the styles have plackets
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/AnonymousBrescian.jpg
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/JTintorettoPOALady.jpg
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VeroneseCouple.jpg
De

-----Original Message-----
The panel isn't a panel -- it's the opening, with the
camicia/chemise/underwear showing behind the laces.  Or, at least, that
seems to be the prevailing theory among costumers right now.

Oooo. Lotto "gives" good dresses. <G>

Liadian

-----Original Message-----
From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
cassandracressy
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:43 PM
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Help! (striped dress)

I am so so so sooory. :( I never thought to tell you that.  My brain
is being fried from all this heat.  The artist is Lorenzo Lotto and
the picture is Lucretia.  I like this site for examining dresses
because you can zoom in on areas of interest.
Cassandra of the melted brain



--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Frank A
Thallas Jr" <fathallas@...> wrote:
>
>   What artist?  All you get from this url is the index...
>
> Liadain
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> cassandracressy
> Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:48 PM
> To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: Help! (striped dress)
>
> is this the dress
> http://www.wga.hu/index1.html
> scroll down until you get the portrait named Lucretia.
> Cassandra
>
>
>
> --- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, Cassandra
> McCraw <cmccraw@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> > I'm hoping someone can help me - I'm having an attack of feeble
> > memory (or maybe it is so hot my brain has cooked?). I am
looking
> for
> > a portrait of a woman in a striped dress. The stripes go up and
> down
> > and aren't very wide (perhaps 2 inches?) - but they look like
they
> > could be pieced of two fabrics or perhaps that every other
stripe
> is trim.
> >
> > I know I've seen this picture a dozen times, but I went through
my
> > books last night and couldn't find her. I am almost positive she
> > isn't Venetian, but other than that I'm drawing a blank. (well,
> other
> > than the fact that she is Italian Ren, of course) :)
> >
> > I have "horrible" ideas for doing something like this dress -
> > hopefully in early 2008.
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> >
> > Fionna
> > Calontir
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>





Yahoo! Groups Links

Thank you so much for answering.  Your site is very impressive and informative. 
We will be spending quite a bit more time reviewing it, but we still have a few
more questions.  It looked like the chemise you constructed had a padded front
panel attached to it that would have been between the front sides of the laced
dress.  Or, are we looking at a partlet which would be analogous to a Dicky and
not attached to chemise or dress?   If not any of these then how is the front
panel constructed between the lacing would it be part of the dress?  Also, do
you use hooks or grommets  to attach the lacing?  Thank you.


Celonise and Rizardo

----- Original Message ----
From: Oonagh ONeill <oonaghme@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:13:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Question of lacing

you might like to have a look at my pages
http://geocities. com/oonaghsown/ venetian_ dress.htm

In particular I do the ladder laced front opening Venetian style. I
have found nothing to indicate that this style was anything other
than a Venetian specific fashion.

It is mostly a patriciat style, however it is also seen worn by
servant of the patriciate. Naturally servants do not wear in in such
a high, top end styling. Then just as now, a style may be worn by
different classes. The fabric chioce, quantity of fabric, colour,
and accessories are what set it apart.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocitie s.com/oonaghsown

--- In Italian_Renaissance _Costuming@ yahoogroups. com, rizardo
dartusio <rizardodartusio@ ...> wrote:
>
> Yes, sorry, we were talking about Venice. Can you elaborate
on "style of gown." Thank you.
>
> Celonise and Rizardo, in Trelac of Ansteorra
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Heather Rigaud <hmarkle@... >
> To: Italian_Renaissance _Costuming@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 9:01:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Question of lacing
>
> Where 1570's?
>
> In Venice front lacing for this time was the norm. It' REALLY
depends
> on where, and what style gown you are recreating.
>
> Catalina Doro
> East Kingdom
>
> On Aug 27, 2007, at 9:57 PM, rizardo dartusio wrote:
>
> > Can anyone offer an opinion of side versus back or front lacing
on
> > women's dresses. We were told side lacing was the norm and that
> > front lacing (for the Italians) would have been reserved for the
> > less noble. We're doing the 1570's Italian. Would there have been
a
> > norm for this then.
> >
> > Celonise and Rizardo
>






________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder
tool.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings!

   Hope someone can help me - am looking for a good link to the Uffizi
Gallery.  There used to be (a couple years back, last time I had access to
the net) one at which you could "tour" every room, most of the paintings
were oonline, but I can't seem to find it now...
    There are some pics in there I really need to get my "hands" on!

Your very Good Health!
Liadain
The Outlands

Trishka wrote:
>  What do you think? Is this an over dress and an under dress or one
> dress with two fabrics?  My vote is for 2 dresses but a friend thinks it
> is 1.
>
>
>

You are correct :-)  The bit of black fabric is the undergown, or
possibly a stomacher concealing the lacing of an undergown.  I believe
this _is_ a somewhat anciful interpretation of the styles of the 1480s,
so it might pay to have a look at something like
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/earlyflor/portfolio.html for a
little more background.  :-)


--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

Hi Celonise and Rizardo,


<<<Your site is very impressive and informative.  We will be spending
quite a bit more time reviewing it, but we still have a few more
questions.  >>>

Thanks. I'm glad you found it of interest. :o)


<<<It looked like the chemise you constructed had a padded front
panel attached to it that would have been between the front sides of
the laced dress.  Or, are we looking at a partlet which would be
analogous to a Dicky and not attached to chemise or dress?   If not
any of these then how is the front panel constructed between the
lacing would it be part of the dress?  >>>

No my chemise are either gathered or pleated into a neckband.
Unfortunately Kass McGann no longer has her chemise info up on her
web page, but Jen Thompson's
http://www.festiveattyre.com/research/chemise.html   info is very
simular.  Mine are made in a very simular way. Jen's pattern lay out
and Version 1: a simple band are the closest to the way I do mine.

To get a feel for what goes under my gowns have a look at my
Technically Naked site.
http://www.geocities.com/technically_naked/gruesome_truth.htm

<<<Also, do you use hooks or grommets  to attach the lacing?  Thank
you.>>>

Actually I use neither.  I use lacing rings.
http://au.geocities.com/curvess2000/fastenings.htm  scroll down this
page and you will see rings.  I do often put a hook and bar at the
bottom of my lacing to ensure that it stays in place.  Although this
is more to hold it in plac while I lace myself up more than to keep
it in place after I am in the dress.  And I sometimes put a hook and
bar in the opening at the top of the skirt, below the laceing.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown

Greetings Gentle Readers,
I cannot find the links that I *thought* that I had saved for
merchants who provide the lace that is as close to appropriate for the
lace cuffs on 16th century Venetians.  Will someone help?
Thank you
Ann

>> The panel isn't a panel -- it's the opening, with the
>> camicia/chemise/underwear showing behind the laces.  Or, at least, that
>> seems to be the prevailing theory among costumers right now.

From: "otsisto" <otsisto@...>
> Adele, some of the styles have plackets
> http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/AnonymousBrescian.jpg
> http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/JTintorettoPOALady.jpg
> http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/VeroneseCouple.jpg
> De
>

Vs. 7 which are not, in that particular set of portraits. :)  (Set of portraits
being Bella's 1570's gallery, which was where Celonise and Rizardo had been
pointed to before they asked the question about panels and front openings and
such)

I went for the majority alone rather than both the norm and the exceptions. 
Sorry.

This was kind of funny -- it took me awhile to decide whether or not "Adele" was
referring to myself or to Adele de Maisieres.

And even more interesting now that I'm looking at the thread on the website...
De, you had suggested the exact same sites (Jen Thompson's lacing solution and
modifying Margo Anderson's patterns) that I did in my email  --  only you had
posted them just a half hour or so before I did!  :)

Had I know that someone else had already brought them up, I wouldn't have
repeated them.  What was weird is that your emails didn't show up in my mailbox
until today. :/

Adele Desfontaines

Ha ha. Then what do you use? I only saw one website and that one uses reed. I
have reed, but only 1/4 inch and I've never worked with it.

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Adele de Maisieres
   To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 8:13 PM
   Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Small balzo


   Chris Catalfamo wrote:
   > I want to make a small balzo ca. 1536. Does one have to use a reed frame?
   >
   >

   Well... I don't.

   --
   Adele de Maisieres

   -----------------------------
   Habeo metrum - musicamque,
   hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
   -Georgeus Gershwinus
   -----------------------------





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Was it this one?
http://www.virtualuffizi.com/uffizi/roomsidx.htm

--Giuliana
Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

On 8/24/07, Frank A Thallas Jr <fathallas@...> wrote:
>
>    Greetings!
>
> Hope someone can help me - am looking for a good link to the Uffizi
> Gallery. There used to be (a couple years back, last time I had access to
> the net) one at which you could "tour" every room, most of the paintings
> were oonline, but I can't seem to find it now...
> There are some pics in there I really need to get my "hands" on!
>
> Your very Good Health!
> Liadain
> The Outlands
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nevermind this - geez, I wrote it (I think) over a week ago!

Liadain
Constantly amazed at the ways of the Ether...

-----Original Message-----
From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Frank A
Thallas Jr
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 4:19 PM
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Uffizi link?

    Greetings!

   Hope someone can help me - am looking for a good link to the Uffizi

Gets there from a different direction, but yep, that's it!  Thanks!

Liadain

-----Original Message-----
From: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jessica
Maxson
Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 8:53 AM
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Uffizi link?

Was it this one?
http://www.virtualuffizi.com/uffizi/roomsidx.htm

--Giuliana
Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

Chris Catalfamo wrote:
> Ha ha. Then what do you use? I only saw one website and that one uses reed. I
have reed, but only 1/4 inch and I've never worked with it.
>
>
Mine are basically a padded roll attached to a cap.



--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

I use a felt crown with a padded roll on top that are both covered in
the same fabric.

I have a small web page dedicated to the way I do mine.
http://www.geocities.com/curvess2000/my_balzos.htm

I am planning another one at some point. When I find where I put all
my materials, embriodered silk for this one.  I should run a diary so
that it helps demistify one of the ways you can make this style of
head dress.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown

--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Chris
Catalfamo" <catalfamo1190@...> wrote:
>
> I want to make a small balzo ca. 1536. Does one have to use a reed
frame?

For some reason many of my posts lately are showing up about a day to two
days later on most yahoo groups. I have no idea why. So you may not have
recieved my post when you made yours. :)
De

-----Original Message-----
And even more interesting now that I'm looking at the thread on the
website... De, you had suggested the exact same sites (Jen Thompson's lacing
solution and modifying Margo Anderson's patterns) that I did in my email  --
only you had posted them just a half hour or so before I did!  :)

Had I know that someone else had already brought them up, I wouldn't have
repeated them.  What was weird is that your emails didn't show up in my
mailbox until today. :/

Adele Desfontaines

Salve tutti!

I have a quick question for those who have sewed together strips of lace and
then cut out a partlet from the resulting fabric. How much yardage of said
lace does this take? I am working on a 16th c. Venetian gown (normally I do
15th c. Florentine) and I'd really like to have a fancy partlet to really
spiff it up. I'm not sure how much lace I can afford though.

Oonagh or Bella, have you done this? I think someone on the list has but I
can't remember who. Any help would be appreciated!

--Giuliana Salviati
Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

And what kind of lace should one use?

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jessica Maxson
   To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2007 9:02 PM
   Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Using lace for partlets


   Salve tutti!

   I have a quick question for those who have sewed together strips of lace and
   then cut out a partlet from the resulting fabric. How much yardage of said
   lace does this take? I am working on a 16th c. Venetian gown (normally I do
   15th c. Florentine) and I'd really like to have a fancy partlet to really
   spiff it up. I'm not sure how much lace I can afford though.

   Oonagh or Bella, have you done this? I think someone on the list has but I
   can't remember who. Any help would be appreciated!

   --Giuliana Salviati
   Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It all depends on how wide your lace is and how far it is over your
shoulder from the front neckine to the back neckline and the width of
your neck opening.  Remember extra for seams and tucking in.

If I am able to get really wide lace, 15cm, I might only use 2 metres
+ a edging lace if needed.  You might also like to allow for some
lace the the cuffs of the sleeves too.

As to the type of lace.  Look to what was used a the time and find as
close as possible to that.
http://au.geocities.com/step_through_time/a_step_through_time_lace.htm
   This will give you a good start.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown





Salve tutti!
>
> I have a quick question for those who have sewed together strips of
lace and
> then cut out a partlet from the resulting fabric. How much yardage
of said
> lace does this take? I'd really like to have a fancy partlet to
really
> spiff it up. I'm not sure how much lace I can afford though.
>
> Oonagh, have you done this? I think someone on the list has but I
> can't remember who. Any help would be appreciated!

11. and 12.: Usati in Venetia 1550 / Dress of Worn by the Women of
Venice in 1550

http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/library/newvecellio.htm


I will endeavour to keep you posted regarding final publication date of
the upcoming book.

Enjoy!



Bella

I am looking for a really accomplished seamstress for some nobel court
garb.  Word of mouth is always the best.  Any and all help would be
greatly appreciated.  preferrably someone near Lewisville or just the
dallas area.  I'm sure it will take several fittings.  I have a design
in mind already.  I will have to get color and design "approved", but
at least I'll be ready to go when I do get it approved.  I know cast
has some on staff but options always save money. lol  Someone who's
work that has been approved already would be great but if not ok as
well.  thank you

Erin

rizardo dartusio wrote:
> Can anyone offer an opinion of side versus back or front lacing on women's
dresses.  We were told side lacing was the norm and that front lacing (for the
Italians) would have been reserved for the less noble.  We're doing the 1570's
Italian.  Would there have been a norm for this then.
>


This was certainly not the case in the 1570s.  You can find _lots_ of
portraits of women in front-lacing gowns in that period, as well as lots
that are not front-laced.
http://realmofvenus.renaissanceitaly.net/wardrobe/artgallery4.htm

--
Adele de Maisieres

-----------------------------
Habeo metrum - musicamque,
hominem meam. Expectat alium quid?
-Georgeus Gershwinus
-----------------------------

It all depends on how wide your lace is and how far it is over your shoulder
from the front neckine to the back neckline and the width of your neck opening. 
Remember extra for seams and tucking in.

If I am able to get really wide lace, 15cm, I might only use 2 metres + a edging
lace if needed.  You might also like to allow for some lace the the cuffs of the
sleeves too.

As to the type of lace.  Look to what was used a the time and find as close as
possible to that. 
http://au.geocities.com/step_through_time/a_step_through_time_lace.htm  This
will give you a good start.

Enjoy

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)
[Pagar le Pompe]

Oonaghs Own - Venetian Patrician Womens Dress Laurel [from the skin
out] and Accessories of the mid to late sixteenth century
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Jessica Maxson
   To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 11:02 AM
   Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Using lace for partlets


   Salve tutti!

   I have a quick question for those who have sewed together strips of lace and
   then cut out a partlet from the resulting fabric. How much yardage of said
   lace does this take? I am working on a 16th c. Venetian gown (normally I do
   15th c. Florentine) and I'd really like to have a fancy partlet to really
   spiff it up. I'm not sure how much lace I can afford though.

   Oonagh, have you done this? I think someone on the list has but I
   can't remember who. Any help would be appreciated!

   --Giuliana Salviati
   Barony of Ponte Alto, Atlantia

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]