Hi all

its been a while since i have put up any of my stuff, but I have
finnaly got off my behind and got together the beginings of my webpage
for all my Venetian Dresses and stuff. Its a work in progress. SO bare
with me... With no further ado:
my page
http://au.geocities.com/caterinaagnita/index.html

hope to have my latest Dress up there soon, the red and pink brocade
dress... in the next week or so.

thankyou

LAdy Agneta Loredan de Rovigo

Hey is anyone having trouble loading up 'Realm of Venus' today?   Every time I
try and get it to load it the browser says 'cant find on  this server'.




Lady Gabriella Rizo
   Kingdom of the Outlands
   Barony of Unser Hafen
   Canton of Bofarrach
Smiling Bull Tavern



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I got that too earlier today.

Renata

On 10/1/06, Rebecca Egan <beccaberry@...> wrote:
>
>   Hey is anyone having trouble loading up 'Realm of Venus' today? Every
> time I try and get it to load it the browser says 'cant find on this
> server'.
>
>
>
>
> Lady Gabriella Rizo
> Kingdom of the Outlands
> Barony of Unser Hafen
> Canton of Bofarrach
> Smiling Bull Tavern
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+
> countries) for 2˘/min or less.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
The sad truth is that accountability in Washington is dead. We won't get it
back until we throw out those responsible. Let's hope it's not too late.
-Jonathan Alter

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a
capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety
labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi guys,

my current web space is very generously donated - it is hosted by
renaissancewoman.net. I've been in contact with the owner and as soon as she
lets me know what's up with it I will let you know. Hopefully it's just a
temporary glitch, as the host website is functional.


Anabella Wake (aka dona Bella Lucia da Verona)
The Realm of Venus
http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/



----- Original Message ----
From: Karen Finnemore <ladyren@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 October, 2006 4:47:46 AM
Subject: Re: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Bella's Site?


I got that too earlier today.

Renata



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's back online, although we couldn't work out why it was down in the first
place! LOL


Bella
http://realmofvenus.renaissancewoman.net/



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Hi all,

as the latest addition to The Italian Showcase I am happy to present
to you the work of Baroness Marit the Wanderer of the Shire of
Agaricus, Lochac (New South Wales, Australia).

She has created a beautiful and versatile gown of the style of circa
1530s Venice and Bernardino Licinio. As usual, you can see the
latest addition here...

http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/yourgarb/showcase.htm

Also, since it is the beginning of a new month that means a new
Portrait of the Month has been uploaded!

http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/

Enjoy!


Bella
The Realm of Venus

I don't remember if it was on this list or not.
Someone mentioned of the woman pictured here
http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/BellaNani1560.jpg

first name was Nani and that the artist used "Bella" to mean that she was
"beautiful" Nani.
I found this picture and I think "Nani" may be a last name.
http://tinyurl.com/lp2o7

De

Actually her title is Baroness Mistress Marit the Wanderer (OP)

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)

Oonagh's Own - Venetian patrician womens dress and accessories of the
mid to
late
sixteenth century.
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/

Thanks Deb, I am and was aware of that when I webbed it (she is after all a
member of the Lochac Tailors Guild which I web monkey for). I'm sure Mistress
Marit doesn't mind me only using part of her title considering it was the title
which she herself provided on her booking form. :-)



Bella




----- Original Message ----
From: Oonagh ONeill <oonaghme@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 October, 2006 8:52:49 PM
Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: October 1st Italian Showcase is now
online!


Actually her title is Baroness Mistress Marit the Wanderer (OP)



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Actually her title is Baroness Mistress Marit the Wanderer (OP)

Cheers

Deb
(Oonagh)

Oonagh's Own - Venetian patrician womens dress and accessories of the
mid to
late
sixteenth century.
http://www.geocities.com/oonaghsown/

Deb, I think your computer has the hiccups. :-) LOL

Bella


----- Original Message ----
From: Oonagh ONeill <oonaghme@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, 2 October, 2006 9:25:54 PM
Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: October 1st Italian Showcase is now
online!


Actually her title is Baroness Mistress Marit the Wanderer (OP)






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, "Oonagh ONeill"
<oonaghme@...> wrote:
>
> Actually her title is Baroness Mistress Marit the Wanderer (OP)
>
> Cheers
>
> Deb
> (Oonagh)


Pardon my soapbox here.

Just a comment, in period the titles would not be stacked (post period
practice). Please use one or the other or if trying for formal
completeness use either Baroness Marit the Wanderer, Mistress of of
the Pelican (if landed) or Mistress Marit the Wanderer, Baroness of
(Kingdom name here).

Years of hanging out with heralds will drive you crazy about this.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussions of clothing.

Donata Bonacorsi

<<<Please use one or the other or if trying for formal
completeness use either Baroness Marit the Wanderer, Mistress of of
the Pelican (if landed) or Mistress Marit the Wanderer, Baroness of
(Kingdom name here).>>>

Actually the latter would not be appropriate as you are placing a minor
title before a major title. Also saying Baroness/Baron of "Caid" implies
more that Caid is a Barony then a Kingdom and that the individual is the
Baroness/Baron of it. To squeeze by this latter issue, it should be B "of
the" Kingdom of "Caid".
From my understanding title stacking is a SCA thing.
Closer to form, I think would perhaps be
Baroness Marit of the Kingdom of Lochac, Member of the Order of the Pelican
(or oddly, holder of the Pelican) and then a list of her other awards (if
being formal and in court) but in an inform reference it would be Baroness
Marit the Wanderer.
SCA is a little wacky with Titles and their rank.

I am curious as to what the "Italian" equivalent to Baron/Baroness is? How
would one identify a woman's rank in "Italy"?

De

Just thinking here - melding the last couple of topics into one, I guess.
Could the "Nani" part be a nickname, much as we today use "Nana' or similar
for grandmothers or mothers and that is why she is wearing the very shear
covering (thinking along the Mona Lisa  topic)?

Elspeth Bouchannane
Oertha, West



>I don't remember if it was on this list or not.
> Someone mentioned of the woman pictured here
> http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/BellaNani1560.jpg
>
> first name was Nani and that the artist used "Bella" to mean that she was
> "beautiful" Nani.
> I found this picture and I think "Nani" may be a last name.
> http://tinyurl.com/lp2o7

I am completely nuts about that pic and that dress! What a FANtastic dress to
copy!

Kathryn

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "otsisto" <otsisto@...>
I don't remember if it was on this list or not.
Someone mentioned of the woman pictured here
http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/BellaNani1560.jpg

first name was Nani and that the artist used "Bella" to mean that she was
"beautiful" Nani.
I found this picture and I think "Nani" may be a last name.
http://tinyurl.com/lp2o7

De




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It's very amusing to see in person.  :-)  I got a chance last week to
go to the Louvre and saw the painting there.

The sheer covering is different from the Mona Lisa's.  Mona Lisa's is
a full sheer overgown.  This is more of a shawl like garment.



--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, martin9150@...
wrote:
>
> I am completely nuts about that pic and that dress! What a FANtastic
dress to copy!
>
> Kathryn
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "otsisto" <otsisto@...>
> I don't remember if it was on this list or not.
> Someone mentioned of the woman pictured here
> http://www.renaissancewoman.net/realmofvenus/wardrobe/BellaNani1560.jpg
>
> first name was Nani and that the artist used "Bella" to mean that
she was
> "beautiful" Nani.
> I found this picture and I think "Nani" may be a last name.
> http://tinyurl.com/lp2o7
>
> De
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

It has been discussed on one of the lists that I am on that the outfit is
probably a costume for carnival. The appelettes and belt seem to indicate a
costume. I am more likely to believe that her outfit is a costume then a
representation that she was pregnant but the maternity thing isn't a bad
theory. But that still doesn't explain "Nani"  Apparently Nani is a surname
found in Tuscany. So maybe Bella is her first name.
I think someone has a dress diary for this or is on her list of to do
outfits.
De

-----Original Message-----
Just thinking here - melding the last couple of topics into one, I guess.
Could the "Nani" part be a nickname, much as we today use "Nana' or similar
for grandmothers or mothers and that is why she is wearing the very shear
covering (thinking along the Mona Lisa  topic)?

Elspeth Bouchannane
Oertha, West

I've done *loads* of research on this painting. There is an entire
book written about it by one of the curators at the Louvre, but it's
in French. Great if you happen to read the language. My inlaws happen
do as does my husband, so I got a fair-te-middlin translation. There
is also substantial postulation on the origins of this painting in
other texts, but the short of the long, no one actually knows who she
is or why it's named "Bella Nani".
Theories are as follows:
1. It's a wedding portrait of Veroneses' wife. He uses her many times
throughout the years as a studio model and the sharp eye can pick out
her face in many of his allegories. The appearance of the woman, the
date estimated on the painting and the date of his marriage all fit to
make this plausible.
corrollary: This being a post-partum painting of her I don't think is
likely. I can't recall offhand when their first child was born, but I
suspect it would be too soon for it to have that kind of relevance.
2. It is one of the women of the Nani family. Veronese spent a
considerable amount of time at the Nani residence. Bella is not likely
her name however; there are no women by that name within the plausible
period of time that would have been living in the residence.
3. That she is an allegory of the perfect wife/woman. All the
collected attributes men look for in a woman - essentially a "pin up
girl". There were the odd occasion that men would commission art for
their private studies and a pin up girl was what was ordered. So
reality wasn't an issue, beauty was.
4. That it is a carnevale costume. Well, the jewellry might be given
the outrageous excess, but the dress is itself quite typical of the era.

What isn't well known is that Veroneses' brother and sons were studio
painters in Veroneses' school. His brother has his own attributions,
particularly with frescoes. They painted the church together. His
brother was better known for his architectural drawings thus the
dramatic archtectural scenery executed in his art, which also strongly
reflect in the fantastic jewellry. Compare the jewellry settings to
decorative architechural elements and then to contemporary setting
fashions, and you will find a distinct discrepancy. It is entirely
possible that these elements were added after Paolos' death. His
brother and sons continued the studio for several more years,
completing his unfinished works. His brother continued as a painter,
one son died and the other changed professions, getting into finances
and accounting.

I suspect the whole maternity veil thing - which I have never heard of
before until now - fell to the wayside by this time. They had other
elements used as "code" for the occasion of the painting - I
understand that a marten figured into the composition meant she was
pregnant at the time of the painting. I would have to look up others,
but that is the first that comes to mind. That birthing rituals of
Venice book I have would come in handy right now. If people get jazzed
enough about the topic I'll go pull it out. :-)

Salvi

It is.

And I did. :-)

Salvi
~working on the Fede Galizia painting at the moment~

Bodice finished - time to embellish, skirt attachment next....still
waiting for glassware to show up for the girdle...all by Oct 28th for
Crown Tourney.

--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, martin9150@...
wrote:
>
> I am completely nuts about that pic and that dress! What a FANtastic
dress to copy!

> SCA is a little wacky with Titles and their rank.

Yeah, isn't that the truth.

Generally we don't stack titles out in my neck of the SCA (West, more
exactly the Principality of the Mists). In fact, sometimes there's no
way of knowing if you've just been talking to some one who was at the
first party. It's really frightening sometimes when I really think
about how many titles my friends have. But some might think that I
have a scary number of titles too. (I've never been into alphabet
soup, so I'd have to look myself up in the Kingdom Order of Precedence)



> I am curious as to what the "Italian" equivalent to Baron/Baroness
> is?

According to the SCA heralds alternate title site the Italian
equivalents would be Barone/Baronessa.

http://www.sca.org/heraldry/titles.html#table1


> How would one identify a woman's rank in "Italy"?
>
> De
>

The more flippant part of me says "by the cut and fabric of their
clothes" but my wild guess would be either "title family name", "title
given name" or "title job description". I'm pretty sure they kept
their family name after marriage.

Maestra Donata Bonacorsi (title enclosed for the curious)

I've been meaning to get to this since this thread started, and I have now
updated my webpage to reflect that the painting in question is thought to have
been at one point a 'Countess Nani' of the Venetian Nani family due to a
description given by one Marco Boschini of a portrait he saw at Ca' Nani (the
Nani family palazzo) in 1660, but there is no direct evidence that it's the same
painting. She has also been known as "La Bella Nani" (the beautiful Nani). I had
forgotten to add the "La" to my webpage.

There are three historic buildings in Venice which bear the name of Nani.

The 15th century Palazzo Barbarigo Nani-Mocenigo:
http://www.jc-r.net/venezia/palazzi/barbarigo-nani-mocenigo-e.htm
The 16th century Palazzo Nani: http://www.jc-r.net/venezia/palazzi/nani-e.htm
And the 16th century Palazzo Nani Bernardo:
http://www.jc-r.net/venezia/palazzi/nani-bernardo-e.htm

There is also a 16th century villa on the Venetian mainland called Villa Nani
Mocenigo: http://www.venezia.net/venice/villas/villas-upper-polesine.htm



Bella






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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

don't forget the pictures. :)
De

-----Original Message-----
It is.

And I did. :-)

Salvi
~working on the Fede Galizia painting at the moment~

Bodice finished - time to embellish, skirt attachment next....still
waiting for glassware to show up for the girdle...all by Oct 28th for
Crown Tourney.

--- In Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com, martin9150@...
wrote:
>
> I am completely nuts about that pic and that dress! What a FANtastic
dress to copy!

We are not supposed to title stack in SCA I have been barked at by some of
those with  title however same people sure do when it comet to tag lines...
LOL.....

Cheers
S.

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t waste time standing in line—try shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca

----- Original Message ----
From: Satine De La Courcel <LadySAtineDeLaCourcel@...>
To: Italian_Renaissance_Costuming@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 4 October, 2006 12:07:20 AM
Subject: [Italian Renaissance Costuming] Re: October 1st Italian Showcase is now
online!


We are not supposed to title stack in SCA I have been barked at by some of
those with  title however same people sure do when it comet to tag lines...
LOL.....


Thank you Satine, this is something I've heard recently by more than one person.
It may be that it differs from kingdom to kingdom, because I have certainly
heard people here refering to the "correct" way to introduce someone with
several titles as that same "title-stacking" way that others have said isn't
supposed to be used. Odd, isn't it? Do you know if there's anything written
about this anywhere, by the heralds of any particular kingdom maybe? I for one
am most interested to learn more (I never have felt right about title stacking,
and thankfully don't often have the need to refer to anyone by his/her title/s).
Feel free to reply offlist, as I'm sure this is getting too OT for this list.
:-)




Bella



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From my understanding, there is not written rule but through a slow process,
is being phased out in order to try to be a little more "period" as one can
possibly get with the SCA title structure. Considering a knight out ranks a
lord in SCA. :P
And from my understanding the move is not coming from the heraldry (though
many within the heraldry do encourage it) but from high titled people. At
least that is the impression I am getting from Calontir.

De

-----Original Message-----
Thank you Satine, this is something I've heard recently by more than one
person. It may be that it differs from kingdom to kingdom, because I have
certainly heard people here refering to the "correct" way to introduce
someone with several titles as that same "title-stacking" way that others
have said isn't supposed to be used. Odd, isn't it? Do you know if there's
anything written about this anywhere, by the heralds of any particular
kingdom maybe? I for one am most interested to learn more (I never have felt
right about title stacking, and thankfully don't often have the need to
refer to anyone by his/her title/s). Feel free to reply offlist, as I'm sure
this is getting too OT for this list. :-)




Bella



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Yahoo! Groups Links

Hit send to soon... Sorry all... did not realize it until this mornining

The Dress is stunning,   absolutely stunning!

Cheers
S

_________________________________________________________________
Buy what you want when you want it on Sympatico / MSN Shopping
http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca/content/shp/?ctId=2,ptnrid=176,ptnrdata=081805

Eh whatever!   I really care not I just put in my experiences.  and thogut
it WAS FUNNY BY THE LOL ia added that the same people who informed me oof
not ttile stacking, turned arroudn and introduced tehmselves withthe title
stack.. I am I am baron, night so n so master of the pelican an dmaster of
th laurel in such  n such....... It was a funny situation. so relax bella
everyone gets OT at times..

Now back to you regulary scheduled program

S.

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t waste time standing in line—try shopping online. Visit Sympatico / MSN
Shopping today! http://shopping.sympatico.msn.ca

Actually title stacking is
Duke Sir so and so
Baroness Mistress Hot Mama
Earl Master Brouhaha

If they say
Master Woohoo Master of the Pelican, that isn't stacking that's being SCA
formal (or in other terms using their bragging rights :)).
The SCA titles page should be taken with a grain to a cup of salt as there
have been found errors. So the Barone and Baronessa is questionable.
In modern Italian there does not seem to be a title Baronessa. Therefore I
am inclined to believe that someone tacked on "essa" and called it Italian.
Don and Donna are the N. Italian equivalent to Lord and Lady. Signore and
Signora are allegedly late 1500s S. Italian due to Spanish influence.
Therefore I believe that I would be formally address as
Donna Fiordelisia Dragano de Parma in SCA.
I could be wrong as I am still learning.

De
Okay done with the subject.

-----Original Message-----
Eh whatever!   I really care not I just put in my experiences.  and thogut
it WAS FUNNY BY THE LOL ia added that the same people who informed me oof
not ttile stacking, turned arroudn and introduced tehmselves withthe title
stack.. I am I am baron, night so n so master of the pelican an dmaster of
th laurel in such  n such....... It was a funny situation. so relax bella
everyone gets OT at times..

Now back to you regulary scheduled program

S.

http://tinyurl.com/pz938

the link leads you to a recorded course (on DVD) on the great artists
of the Italian Renaissance. I'm asking for opinions/thoughts as hubby
is inquiring if I would like it as a Christmas gift. LOL, I think he
is running out of books I don't already own. Thanks

Greetings,
     I'm finally getting around to doing the  hemming on my gown.  I feel like it
needs a bit more heft at the  bottom.  Normally I would use horsehair braid.  On
this  project however that's both a bit lightweight and narrow.  This is  a
cartridge pleated gown made out of a mid-weight taffeta. Plus I'm  also hemming
the free floating lining out of dupioni.
      I'd love to hear suggestions on what might be a good stand-in for 
horsehair.  Having it also be as period as possible would be a  major plus.

   Greatest Thanks


Lady Gabriella Rizo
   Kingdom of the Outlands
   Barony of Unser Hafen
   Canton of Bofarrach
Smiling Bull Tavern



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Business.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]