Thank you Janet. It was a pleasure to do it. When you really enjoy doing
something there is no effort involved. Just one thing, from what I remember a
Gallon of land is only relevant to Cavan  but I am open to correction.
Kind regards.
  Tom.





> To: Irish-Placename-Studies@yahoogroups.com
> From: reojan@...
> Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:51:17 +0000
> Subject: Re: ~IPS > Re: Land measure names
>
> Tom, Thanks!. It is very handy to have them all in one place. Your
> book is a big help to me, and now I have a better appreciation of what
> you went through doing it. I am having a grand time and it is
> addictive.
>
> Janet
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> INSIGHT, the Irish Heritage Studies Journal:
> http://www.irishinsight.net
>
> Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the message text, this message remains
under copyright of the author. IRQUAS accept no responsibility for views
expressed in this message.
>
> To join related IRQUAS discussion groups or find out more about the IRQUAS
project visit our website: http://www.maqqi.supanet.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom, Thanks!. It is very handy to have them all in one place. Your
book is a big help to me, and now I have a better appreciation of what
you went through doing it. I am having a grand time and it is
addictive.

Janet

Use these are you please. Regards.
  Tom in Tipperary.

Carrive, Carrow etc, ceathramhadh, ceathrama, ceathramha, a quarter (of land).
Cartron, cart, a 4th part of a land division.
Cartron, chartrun, Anglo Norman term for a measure of land between 60 and 160
acres.
Cooga, ciúgeadh(sic), a fifth of a baile-biatach (a land measure).
Cooguquid, cuigeadh-cuid, a fifth of a ploughland.
Cuss, cos, a  land measurment equal to a quarter of a gníomh.
Erveny, airbheanna, land divisions.
Ervey, airbhe, airbheadh, a land division.
Farragh, farrach, an old measure of land.
Farran, fearann, a ploughland (a land measure equal to 120 acres).
Gallon, galún, gallon, a measurment of land.
Gneeve, gniomh, a measure of land, equalling 10 acres or a twelfth part of a
ploughland.
Gneeves, gniomh, gniomha, measures of land. One gneeve equals one twelfth of a
ploughland or 10 acres.
Gneevgulliagh, gníomh-go/gniomh-ga-leith, a gneeve and a half. A land measure
equalling 15 acres.
Greave, gníomh, a measurment of 10 acres.
Greeve, gríomh, a measure of land.
Intack, the English word ‘intake’ meaning a portion of land taken from
uncultivated ground or an inclosure(sic).
Kead, céad, cead, one hundred and a measure of land.
Ked, céad, one hundred and a measure of land.
Lyan, laighean, a long strip of land or a lance.
Meera, míora, land divisions.
Pol, poll, a measurment of land.
Poll, poll, a measurment of land.
Pottle, potteal, poitéal, poll, a measurment of land.
Ranny, rannaidhe, divisions or land portions.
Rinne, roinne, the division.
Ses, seisíoch, a sixth part (a land measure).
Sesragh, sesragh, a measure of one sixth of land.
Sessagh, seiseadhach, sixths (measures of land).
Sessuegilroy, seiseadh-Mhic-Giollaruaidh, MacGilroy’s (a family name) one
sixth measure of land.
Sessy, seisidh, a sixth (measure of land).
Stan, stainge, a stang (measure of land).
Stang, stang, a measure of land equal to a rood.
Stangaun, stangán, little measure of land.
Stangs, na-stanga, measures of land.
Stangs, stangaí, a place of small fields.
Steage, steidhg, a land measurment.
Staigue, stéig, a strip of land or a rocky ledge.
Stone, stúin, stang, a measurment of land.
Stonecarthy, stúin-Chárthaigh, Carthach’s (a personal or family name) stang
or measure of land.
Stong, stang, a measurment of land.
Stonga, stang-a’…, measurment of land of the…
Taite, tate, tath, a measurment of land (60 acres).
Tat, tate, tath, a measurment of land (60 acres).
Tate, tate, a measurment of land.
Tath, tate, tath, a measurment of land (60 acres).
Tattena, taite-na…, land measurment of the…measurment of the….
Tattina, taite-na…, land measurment of the…
Tattraconnaghty, tait-raith-Chonnachtaigh, land measurment of the rath of the
Connaughtman.
Tatty, táite, tate, tath, a measurment of land (60 acres).
Tatty, tate, taite, tath, a measurment of land (60 acres).
Tir, tir, tír, district, land or territory.
Trean, an-thrian, trian, one third (a land measurment).
Treane, triain, a third (measure of land).
Trough, triúcha, a cantred (a land measurment of a hundred).

Hi all,

Working with the Civil Survey for Co. Tipperary, I have discovered we
are missing, I think, an essential map, although it may exist and I
just haven't come upon it. I will try and explain.

The Civil Survey is based around Land Measure(s) (LM), i.e. plowlands,
polds, colpes, etc. Although there are handy "Townland" Indexes to
each Barony in the Survey, these are not townland names at all, but
the names of the LM instead, and each of the LM had a placename of its
own, some of which may or may not have had an associated townland
name, or some of which made it into a townland name that may or may
not exist today, or may or may not have existed prior to the
Anglo-Norman Invasion. It is difficult to tell just how far back in
time the LM placenames stretch or how long after the Civil Survey they
were used, but on a solid guess I would say the LM placenames are
critical between the Invasion and the Civil Survey and not so much the
townland names.

Many of the LM go beyond a single modern parish, and a few go through
two or even three parishes and, therefore perhaps into another Barony.
Thus when you come upon what you think is a "townland" name in a
parish in the Civil Survey, but is in fact an LM name, one must look
for the same LM placename in the surrounding parishes and continue on
until the LM placename stops being used. There is a description for
the boundaries for these, parish by parish per Barony, in the Survey.

The Survey also references the "residence" of the owner of the LM and
that residence may not, in fact, be a townland name but an LM name
instead.

It appears that when I have the database well completed, I will have
to go back and compare names, particularly the LM names with those in
Locus, and I think I have just stretched this project out for months
more. I have already though been able to locate some placenames that
have been elusive so far.

We have the maps for the Baronies and the parishes, but what is
missing is a map for the LM areas with their names and an overlay of
the modern parish boundaries, and perhaps with a matching townland
name, if any, located with the LM area. I think a map like this would
show more evidence of tribal areas, particularly once one associates
sept-derived surnames with the LM. I would aslo love to see the church
locations on such a map, but that is asking for too much probably.

I hope I explained this adequately and really hope someone is looking
for a good project as this would be a worthwhile one to take on. If
such a map already exists, please point me at it.

Janet

Hello all,

The website www.archaeology.ie has a very good monuments database with
accompanying maps. It's a bit slow to search but the results can be
very useful. The site displays OS maps overlaying aerial photographs
and the monuments are highlighted and can be clicked to display more
information.

Apologies if you already know about this.

Grace Moloney

Clogher Historical Society/Cumann Seanchais Chlochair
St Macartan's College
Mullaghmurphy
Monaghan
047 71984
info@...
www.clogherhistory.ie

Kay, My intent originally was to index the surnames in the
Inquisitions, Grants, Fiants, etc. for Co. Tipperary only. I felt,
however, that I would also have to identify the placename location in
order for the index to be meaningful, and this has turned into a
monster of a project. I am finally making my way through the Civil
Survey, which is the last large manuscript for me to do and I am still
weeks/months away from completing that. After that I have weeks or
months of analyzing and sorting and cross-referencing to do, and I
doubt I will ever be able to say it is "complete", but it will be near
complete.
The placename database is very helpful, is currently searchable and
will eventually be sortable, too.
Now, how long it will take to do the surname index to go with it - may
the gods keep me alive long enough.

Janet

On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Northern Ireland Place-Name Project
<townlands@...> wrote:
> Just to let people know - there is to be a revision of PH Reaney's 'British
surnames' to
> which several thousand Irish surnames now current in Britain are being added.
We are
> collecting some historical evidence for these, via the 16th-century anglicised
spellings
> of Irish surnames from the index to the  Fiants of Elizabeth 1st.  Allocating
Fiant
> spellings to the correct Gaelic and modern surname forms turns out to be a
huge task,
> and I hope what we are doing  will also be of use eventually in the study of
all the
> Gaelic surnames of Ireland. If anyone else is trying this, please let us
co-operate!
>
> Kay
>
> -- Northern Ireland Place-Name Project
> c/o Irish & Celtic Studies, School of Languages, Literatures & Arts
> Queen's University Belfast, BT7 1NN.
> tel. 02890 973689, fax 02890 324549.
> Website www.ulsterplacenames.org
> Research Fellows Dr Kay Muhr, Dr Patrick McKay
> Working for OSNI/Mosaic/Pointer/LPS "Information on Location" 2007-
> (townland information for NI geohub site replacing www.pointer-ni.gov.uk)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
>
>
> INSIGHT, the Irish Heritage Studies Journal:
> http://www.irishinsight.net
>
> Unless otherwise explicitly stated in the message text, this message remains
under copyright of the author. IRQUAS accept no responsibility for views
expressed in this message.
>
> To join related IRQUAS discussion groups or find out more about the IRQUAS
project visit our website: http://www.maqqi.supanet.com
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Just to let people know - there is to be a revision of PH Reaney's 'British
surnames' to
which several thousand Irish surnames now current in Britain are being added. We
are
collecting some historical evidence for these, via the 16th-century anglicised
spellings
of Irish surnames from the index to the  Fiants of Elizabeth 1st.  Allocating
Fiant
spellings to the correct Gaelic and modern surname forms turns out to be a huge
task,
and I hope what we are doing  will also be of use eventually in the study of all
the
Gaelic surnames of Ireland. If anyone else is trying this, please let us
co-operate!

Kay

-- Northern Ireland Place-Name Project
c/o Irish & Celtic Studies, School of Languages, Literatures & Arts
Queen's University Belfast, BT7 1NN.
tel. 02890 973689, fax 02890 324549.
Website www.ulsterplacenames.org
Research Fellows Dr Kay Muhr, Dr Patrick McKay
Working for OSNI/Mosaic/Pointer/LPS "Information on Location" 2007-
(townland information for NI geohub site replacing www.pointer-ni.gov.uk)

Yes, I've recently discovered this site and it is fantastic. You can toggle
between the 1840, 1890 maps and the current aerial photos of the same view. It
is well worth a look, but set aside a few hours! Only problem is you can't
print, except for purchasing a very expensive copy. But if you go to your local
library as far as I know you can print at the cost of a page i.e. a few cent.

Kieran

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Tony
   To: Irish-Placename-Studies@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 11:16 PM
   Subject: ~IPS > Ordnance Survey Maps online



   I don't know how many of you are aware of this but the OSI seem to have
   finally come to their senses and made their (our) historic mapping
   available to browse online for free. It seems to be a very good site
   and the viewer looks excellent. Townland and parish boundaries will no
   longer be a mystery. The link is:

   http://ims0.osiemaps.ie/website/publicviewer/main.aspx#V1,600000,750000,\
   0

   Tony

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