With the current ICG structure, the local chapters should be handling
memberships questions and renewals.

It was earlier suggested that member be notified when their
membership is up.  If the ICG centrally had to designate someone it
would create confusion  since the member's designated contact is
within their local chapter.  They could have renewed locally, and the
ICG would not be aware of it until the local chapter's quarterly
report is submitted to the ICG.

Would member retainment be a function of the 'central' ICG or the
local chapter?  Currently there is not a post designated to work on
overall ICG member retainment.  I would advise it not be a function
the ICG Treasurer to send out a thousand individual postcards
(earlier suggestion on this list) each year with a different format
for each chapter listing their local treasurer so the member can
renew.

Ideally an ICG's member's expiration should be coterminus with their
local chapter membership.  Members should be able to check their
status with their local chapter.

Local chapters have requested copies of their ICG chapter listing for
reconciliation.  Currently I do not give out full ICG membership data
with all chapters listed without the BOD's approval.

Sharon Trembley
ICG Treasurer


--- In ICG-D@egroups.com, Linda Peterson <mirhaxa@m...> wrote:
> Since communication seems to be an issue, it may be valuable to
post lists
> of members by chapter. Then some of the CQ & membership issues
could be
> reliably pinned to chapters or ICG. People could use a nickname if
they
> didn't want their names bandied about on the Net.
>
> Linda
>
> On Mon, 30 Oct 2000, John O'Halloran wrote:
>
> > Nova wrote in early Oct:
> > > If my dues are up I would LOVE to pay them, however I don't
know if
> > > they are up or not.  Every other organization I am in tells me
loud
> > > and clear when I need to pay dues.
> > >
> > > So who do I contact to find out if I owe dues?
> >
> > With the current ICG structure, it is your Local Chapter that
should
> > be telling you when you due for renewal.
> >
> > It is also your Local Chapter's job to make sure they forward
> > you ICG dues, CQ subscription money and your information, to
> > the Treasurer.
> >
> > I'm don't know if there is any requirement of the ICG Treasurer
> > to send the Local Chapters a list of their members and their
> > status.
> >
> >    JohnO
> >

Sorry, I read this after I posted it and it didn't make sense.

I do give local chapter reps an update when they ask for it, but it
only contains their chapter.  If someone wants an entire ICG listing,
not just their chapter, there has to be a reason submitted to the
Board for approval.

Other info I've given is a chapter's head count to a neighboring
chapter - it's part of my annual reports.  Usually the requestor has
a legitimate-sounding reason for asking.

Sharon

>
> Local chapters have requested copies of their ICG chapter listing
for
> reconciliation.  Currently I do not give out full ICG membership
data
> with all chapters listed without the BOD's approval.
>
> Sharon Trembley
> ICG Treasurer
>

Mazel Tov.  But I shall give you a bit of warning.  This is just
how we felt when my then 11 year old son wowed the crowd at LACon in
'84.  He was Rayek from Elf Quest, and did it perfectly.  One thing led to
another, and he is  now an actor and clown.
          We are still very proud, but we also understand all the agonies
and remuneration problems of such a career/passion.
          Good Luck to you all,
Dana MacDermott

>As we all know, a great costume still doesn't "play" if you don't know
>how to walk the stage.  Jake, who would accept no real coaching from mom
>& dad walked the stage like a pro doing the best orc shuffle I've ever
>seen, menacing the crowd with his ax and arm spikes.

Sorry for the bandwidth, but I thought it relevant to include the entire
message.

This is at least the third time I have received this message.  Has anyone else
noticed this?  John, what's up?

Bruno
Millennium CG

---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: leigh-@...
Reply-To: ICG-D@egroups.com
Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:53:24 -0700

>>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:10:57 -0400
>
>>From: "cdmami" <<cdmami@...>
>
>>Subject: My feelings>
>
>>
>
>>All who are interested:
>
>>
>
><<<<<<SNIP>>>
>
>>I have taken my time in answering Mary's remarks and those that answered
>her for several >reasons. Mostly because I was mad, and felt that my
>answers would be misunderstood.
>
>>Everyone is talking about the need to increase the dues and the
>subscription rate to the CQ, >and I was asked what are the real expenses.
>We have told you the main costs but no one can> >figure the real cost.
>The wear and tear on the computer and printer as you work up a galley
>>proof. The phone bill, to call the people you need to talk to, who don't
>have E-mail. What >price do you put on the fight you had over staying up
>till 3 am putting this together? The >supplies that you get and don't
>charge back for, the gas to take the CQ to the Post Office in >the next
>state to save the 2 hundred dollars to move the permit? The wear and tear
>on the car >carrying a couple of hundred lbs. to the Post Office? I am
>lucky I had help. I hate to think >what this job would be like with out
>Dora, Elaine and Heather. Oh, yes, who pays them for the >times I yell at
>them because the CQ is not going right? Most time for things that they
>had >nothing to do with. Where do you put that in the expenses?
>
>
>
>For what it is worth, I called the post office and the cost to move the
>permit is the $100 annual fee. Simply close the permit where it is and
>open another permit where you are. If an inordinate amount of time and
>gas money are being spent taking the CQ to the post office then it is
>cost effective to move the permit.
>
>
>As for budget costs:
>
>
>Of course, printing and postage costs are a major part of the budget.
>
>
>If you are spending excessive amounts on your phone bill, that should be
>part of your CQ budget.  Paper, a certain percentage of the ink
>cartridges used by your printer and a certain amount of the office
>supplies (if used strictly for the CQ) should be part of the overall CQ
>budget.
>
>Wear and tear on the computer and printer come with the territory of
>volunteering to do this type of job as does being yelled at occasionally
>if one is staff.
>
>
>Fix a budget per issue and stick to it. A budget should be fixed by the
>number who actually have paid to subscribe to the CQ, with those funds
>divided by 4 to give you the budget for each issue. Advertising revenue
>can give you a little extra wiggle room but can't be counted on as a
>steady issue to issue source of revenue.
>
>
>As for the mission statement:
>
>
>I think you have described a good overall mission statement. On the other
>hand, I think you need to realize that you will not achieve that goal
>instantaneously. Burning yourself out now by trying to do everything at
>once won't serve you or the CQ. I, too, had a self-described mission
>statement when I took over our quarterly (which was probably in as bad a
>shape as the CQ). After three years, parts of it have been achieved,
>parts have not yet been realized but if I had tried to do all of it
>within the first couple of issues we wouldn't still be publishing three
>years later. Slow down, take it easy, do the best you can with what
>people give you and in time you will get more without having to beat
>yourself to death to get it.
>
>
>Stephanie
>
>editor - Cactus Needles
>
>editor - ConNotations: The Quarterly Science Fiction, Fantasy &
>Convention
>
>Newszine of the Central Arizona Speculative Fiction Society
>
>
>
>
>

I get embroidered black on black at K-Mart. They also come in
blue. They are about $10 there. Note- some of them have velcro
instead of buckles, much easier to get into.

Also The Pyramid Collection www.pyramidcollection.com has them
for $14.95 in black brocade (P90105) and  red brocade (P90205). I
just recently got the red from them, they look pretty good.

China apparently still likes to make them.

Good luck in the hunt!

Lisa

Pierre & Sandy Pettinger wrote:

> To all:
>
> Does anyone know where you can find "Chinese shoes"?

If it has posted multiple times I apologize as it did not show up in the
messages I am reciving from the ICG list and the digest listed it as [This
message is not in displayable format]
and two private messages asked what is said. also mentioning the "[This
message is not in displayable format]" in their versions of the digest.

Stephanie


At 09:38 PM 11/01/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>Sorry for the bandwidth, but I thought it relevant to include the entire
message.
>
>This is at least the third time I have received this message.  Has anyone
else noticed this?  John, what's up?
>
>Bruno
>Millennium CG
>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
>From: leigh-@...
>Reply-To: ICG-D@egroups.com
>Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:53:24 -0700
>
>>>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 23:10:57 -0400
>>
>>>From: "cdmami" <<cdmami@...>
>>
>>>Subject: My feelings>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>All who are interested:
>>
>>>
>>
>><<<<<<SNIP>>>
>>
>>>I have taken my time in answering Mary's remarks and those that answered
>>her for several >reasons. Mostly because I was mad, and felt that my
>>answers would be misunderstood.
>>
>>>Everyone is talking about the need to increase the dues and the
>>subscription rate to the CQ, >and I was asked what are the real expenses.
>>We have told you the main costs but no one can> >figure the real cost.
>>The wear and tear on the computer and printer as you work up a galley
>>>proof. The phone bill, to call the people you need to talk to, who don't
>>have E-mail. What >price do you put on the fight you had over staying up
>>till 3 am putting this together? The >supplies that you get and don't
>>charge back for, the gas to take the CQ to the Post Office in >the next
>>state to save the 2 hundred dollars to move the permit? The wear and tear
>>on the car >carrying a couple of hundred lbs. to the Post Office? I am
>>lucky I had help. I hate to think >what this job would be like with out
>>Dora, Elaine and Heather. Oh, yes, who pays them for the >times I yell at
>>them because the CQ is not going right? Most time for things that they
>>had >nothing to do with. Where do you put that in the expenses?
>>
>>
>>
>>For what it is worth, I called the post office and the cost to move the
>>permit is the $100 annual fee. Simply close the permit where it is and
>>open another permit where you are. If an inordinate amount of time and
>>gas money are being spent taking the CQ to the post office then it is
>>cost effective to move the permit.
>>
>>
>>As for budget costs:
>>
>>
>>Of course, printing and postage costs are a major part of the budget.
>>
>>
>>If you are spending excessive amounts on your phone bill, that should be
>>part of your CQ budget.  Paper, a certain percentage of the ink
>>cartridges used by your printer and a certain amount of the office
>>supplies (if used strictly for the CQ) should be part of the overall CQ
>>budget.
>>
>>Wear and tear on the computer and printer come with the territory of
>>volunteering to do this type of job as does being yelled at occasionally
>>if one is staff.
>>
>>
>>Fix a budget per issue and stick to it. A budget should be fixed by the
>>number who actually have paid to subscribe to the CQ, with those funds
>>divided by 4 to give you the budget for each issue. Advertising revenue
>>can give you a little extra wiggle room but can't be counted on as a
>>steady issue to issue source of revenue.
>>
>>
>>As for the mission statement:
>>
>>
>>I think you have described a good overall mission statement. On the other
>>hand, I think you need to realize that you will not achieve that goal
>>instantaneously. Burning yourself out now by trying to do everything at
>>once won't serve you or the CQ. I, too, had a self-described mission
>>statement when I took over our quarterly (which was probably in as bad a
>>shape as the CQ). After three years, parts of it have been achieved,
>>parts have not yet been realized but if I had tried to do all of it
>>within the first couple of issues we wouldn't still be publishing three
>>years later. Slow down, take it easy, do the best you can with what
>>people give you and in time you will get more without having to beat
>>yourself to death to get it.
>>
>>
>>Stephanie
>>
>>editor - Cactus Needles
>>
>>editor - ConNotations: The Quarterly Science Fiction, Fantasy &
>>Convention
>>
>>Newszine of the Central Arizona Speculative Fiction Society
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>ICG-D-unsubscribe@egroups.com
>
>
>
>
>

YES!  I have gotten it 5 or 6 times already - in its entirety.

Elaine

>From: "Timothy" <plastic@...>
>Reply-To: ICG-D@egroups.com
>To: <ICG-D@egroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [ICG-D] mY fEELINGS
>Date: Wed,  1 Nov 2000 21:38:02 -0700
>
>Sorry for the bandwidth, but I thought it relevant to include the entire
>message.
>
>This is at least the third time I have received this message.  Has anyone
>else noticed this?  John, what's up?
>
>Bruno
>Millennium CG

_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
http://profiles.msn.com.

Costume-Con 19 is doing some renegotiating with our hotel to make a change in our contract.  The hotel's price for the change we want to make is to move back the cutoff date for room reservations to April 12, six weeks before the con.  Can those of you who are coming (or thinking of coming) to Calgary live with that date?

Eileen Capes

Eileen --

Should not be a problem for Tina and me.

Byron


>>> capsam@... 11/02/00 09:54AM >>>


Costume-Con 19 is doing some renegotiating with our hotel to make a change
in our contract.  The hotel's price for the change we want to make is to
move back the cutoff date for room reservations to April 12, six weeks
before the con.  Can those of you who are coming (or thinking of coming) to
Calgary live with that date?

Eileen Capes

Dear Stephanie:

That may be because you sent the original message in HTML format - most
mailing lists prefer text-only, not HTML, and it's entirely likely that
the digest can't handle it.

I'm sure John O. will confirm.

(Not copying the message again, for the sake of those on the digest.)

Betsy

leigh-@... wrote:
>
> If it has posted multiple times I apologize as it did not show up in the
> messages I am reciving from the ICG list and the digest listed it as [This
> message is not in displayable format]
> and two private messages asked what is said. also mentioning the "[This
> message is not in displayable format]" in their versions of the digest.
>
> Stephanie

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
mailto:WebInvent@... or visit http://www.WebInvent.com/
mailto:Costume-Con@... or visit http://www.Costume-Con.org/
mailto:betsy@... or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
************************************************************************

Just in case anyone was interested...

(I suspect there isn't a lot of crossover from the Technofandom mailing
list here...)

Thanks,

Betsy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: techno-fandom Robert Sacks- Memorial and directions
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 23:09:20 -0500
From: jill@...
To: techno-fandom@...

Hi Folks,

Thought many of you would be interested...

Jill


----- Forwarded by Jill Eastlake/People/Pothole on 11/01/00 11:21 PM
-----


stephen.sacks
                     @ey.com              To:     cindy@...,
dcmathias@...,
                                          halhaag@...,
jill@..., randy@...,
                     11/01/00             mblackm@...,
mimsters@..., RayHeuer1@...,
                     04:08 PM             RayHeuer1@...,
robtwest@..., HWaitzman@..., "Brian
                                          Burley"
<bearcat13@...>

cc:
                                          Subject:     Robert Sacks-
Memorial and directions





(please feel free to forward this on)
Memorial Service to be held for Robert E. Sacks


Where:    Congregation Beth El in South Orange, NJ
           222 Irvington Avenue, South Orange, New Jersey

When:          Sunday, December 10 at 12:30 PM


      Friends of Robert Sacks are invited. It is expected that the
memorial
services will be approximately 30-45 minutes, followed by a light lunch.

      Please RSVP, if possible, with Stephen Sacks via phone 212-773-1815
or
973-378-3783 or E-mail: Stephen.Sacks@....





Directions to Congregation Beth El by car:
222 Irvington Avenue, South Orange, New Jersey

FROM GEORGE WASHINGTON BRIDGE, LINCOLN TUNNEL OR NEW JERSEY TURNPIKE:

1.   Take  New Jersey Turnpike to Exit 15W (which is I-280).
2.   Take Route I-280 West to Exit 10.  At the end of exit ramp turn
left
at traffic light onto Northfield Avenue
      and follow Northfield Avenue bearing right up the hill.
3.   At third traffic light on Northfield Avenue (0.6 miles) turn left
(left hand turn lane) onto Gregory Avenue.
4.   Continue on Gregory Avenue (total about 2.2 miles) until end, South
Orange Avenue.  Gregory Avenue     becomes Wyoming Avenue when you reach
South Orange Village.
5.   Turn left onto South Orange Avenue.
6.   Proceed down the hill. You will pass under a bridge and through
South
Orange Village.
7.   At the fork in the road (where there is a flagpole), bear right
onto
Irvington Avenue.
8.   Congregation Beth El will be 0.1 miles on your right.

FROM GARDEN STATE PARKWAY NORTH OR SOUTH:

Take exit 145 to Route I-280 West. Follow steps #2-8 above.

FROM WESTERN NEW JERSEY:

1.   Take I-78 East bound to Exit 48, Route 24 West.
2.   Immediately move to the right and get off at the first exit marked
"Millburn, Springfield, Summit, Route 124".   Follow signs to "Millburn,
Springfield".
3.   At the third traffic light make a left onto Millburn Avenue and
proceed 1.5 miles.
4.   Make a left onto Wyoming Avenue (at the intersection past West
Coast
video store).
5.   Make a  right onto South Orange Avenue (about 2 miles).
6.   Follow steps #6-8 above.


Directions to Congregation Beth El by train from NY:

Take NJ Transit (Northern - Direction) to South Orange Station. Proceed
East (turn right) on South Orange Avenue, at the fork in the road (where
there is a flagpole), bear right onto Irvington Avenue. Congregation
Beth
El will be 0.1 miles on your right.



*******************************************************************************


Note:          The information contained in this message may be
privileged
and confidential and protected from disclosure.  If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent
responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the
message and deleting it from your computer.  Thank you.  Ernst & Young
LLP
*******************************************************************************

Well!

Having a baby certainly cuts down on the available time for reading
and responding to one's email.

(Yeah, all together now, everyone who already has children --- DUH!)

I've finally beaten my way through the 150 some-odd messages circulated
since 10/4, and I've got some comments about the current situations and
MHO about them.

There are, as I'm reading the messages, about five separate but related
issues regarding the ICG. They are (in no particular order):

1. ICG Membership has dropped precipitously and we are not sure entirely
why, other than that some chapters are seriously delinquent in sending
in dues/membership updates.
2. There are a number of people who are ICG members, or who are not ICG
members, who might find it easier to belong to a Chapter At Large than
to a specific accepted Local Chapter.
3. The CQ is suffering from a serious lack of content input from both
members and chapters.
4. The CQ costs significantly more than the subscription fees that have
been collected to support it.
5. The ICG and CQ are both suffering from an apparent lack of purpose
or direction, which makes justifying a raise in funds difficult,
if not downright impossible.

I could talk a whole lot about how the situation got this way. I can
certainly speak for how long the problems above have existed. Some go
all the way back to CC3 and the Founding Chapter that eventually became
the ICG. Some go back at least as far as my tenure as ICG Treasurer
(which is now some 5-6 years in the past).

These are my comments on the above.

1. ICG Membership has dropped precipitously and we are not sure entirely
why, other than that some chapters are seriously delinquent in sending
in dues/membership updates.

Chapters who do not cough up paperwork on a regular basis should be
pestered until a response is received. This pestering has to go to the
main mailing address, to the President and to the Treasurer. I found at
least three times during my tenure as ICG Treasurer that the official
chapter address to which mail was being sent was not only not active,
but that the person on the receiving end had no interest in forwarding
mail to the appropriate individuals.

I can't imagine that Sharon isn't doing this now, but it's a real shame
that she has to do it at all. Yeah, it's a club, but that's not an
excuse
for sloppy bookkeeping on the part of the chapter treasurer. There
really
ought to be something forceful the ICG can do besides saying "If you
don't pay us we'll just have to drop you from the list!" In particular,
a reminder to chapter treasurers that collecting funds for the ICG and
not passing them on is mail fraud, and is legally punishable.

Chapters (as required in the Standing Rules) are supposed to send
updates
to the ICG Treasurer every quarter, with a full list at the start of
every
year. I was amazed to hear one long-time chapter treasurer state at the
meeting this year that she didn't know she was supposed to be doing
this. I'd say, a print reminder of the standing rules and by-laws to all
chapters is probably in order.

2. There are a number of people who are ICG members, or who are not ICG
members, who might find it easier to belong to a Chapter At Large than
to a specific accepted Local Chapter.

I was a member of the GCFCG long before I moved down to Maryland - I
joined in 1985, just before I attended C-C3, to get a discount on the
conference membership (which is something Costume-Cons used to offer on
a
regular basis, and a practice which might make the ICG membership a tad
more attractive). I didn't make a meeting until after I moved down to
Maryland, but I did appreciate receiving newsletters and meeting
notices.

I belong to the Pups now, and they can tell you how many of the meetings
I've actually attended in the last two years. A newsletter helps
aleviate
this contact issue, but I know for a fact that the GCFCG hasn't produced
a reliable issue of Threadneedle Street or a timely meeting notice in
well over two years. (...Which is one of the reasons why I dropped my
membership with them - I couldn't see the point in paying for my
membership - a point I will take up elsewhere.)

In fact, I may be mistaken in this regard, but I don't think there is a
single member of the GCFCG on this list - an example of the lack of
communication between chapters that occurs when one expects an email
mailing list to do the job of printed media. Three of the GCFCG's
officers did not have email at all until sometime after the beginning of
this year. Moreover, two of them didn't own a computer at all until at
least that recently. And while I have offered several times to get at
least one of them subscribed to this list, no one has taken me up on the
offer.

The point is, belonging to a chapter long distance isn't ideal, but
I think it offers more options and makes for better communication in
the long run. Setting up an E-chapter will still exclude those costumers
who don't own computers or have ready access to the web.

3. The CQ is suffering from a serious lack of content input from both
members and chapters.

This is not a new problem. Kelly Turner complained about it back when he
was editor. So have all the editors since Kelly - Jim was the most vocal
about the problem, prior to Carl and Elaine, but he was also editor a
very long time ago now.

I can't say I've been any help in this regard. I offered to write an
article about the progress of the Costume-Con Archives, and fully
intended to produce this article before the baby was born. Then my
company saw a huge influx of work, including three new clients, and two
brand new web sites, and I was unable to do both the billable work and
the volunteer work. (I own my own company, and if I want to get paid, I
have to do the work.)

In fact, I have updates to make to the Costume-ConNections site that
have waited because I didn't have time to get to them before the baby,
and I'm just now starting back into work on the computer. I still plan
to write the article, but I've got some things standing in the way of
writing it - not the least of which is finding the time to sit in front
of the computer for more than 1/2 an hour at a shot! (I can hear Erin
off in the distance, and have to wrap this up fast!)

As for requiring chapters to provide content as part of their ongoing
requirements for maintaining connection to the ICG, if you can't even
get a simple membership list from them, or a newsletter (see my
comments above re the GCFCG) what makes you think you can get
actual content from them? As a lot of people in my business are
discovering, it's very cool to have a publication (a web site is, after
all, a publication), until they realize that they actually have to
*write* something for it!

4. The CQ costs significantly more than the subscription fees that have
been collected to support it.

I was actively concerned about this issue at the Annual Meeting, but a
family obligation kept me from speaking to my proposal about forming a
committee to deal with fundraising. I will state now, for the record,
that I don't think raising the dues will help the financial situation in
the short term. It might help get a little ahead, but until all of the
issues that people who presently belong to the ICG have been delivered
to them, the ICG has not caught up on its obligation to publish, and the
promise of 4 issues for your membership will take the ICG right back
into a deficit again.

The real question is, at this point, how much money will it take to
publish all of the CQs that have been paid for by current members, based
on the current subscription rate, and how many issues is that?

And, what can be done to raise the money to cover these issues, so that
there is enough money in the bank to cover these costs? Janet's
fundraising suggestions are excellent, and should be implemented, if
possible, but that's darn hard to do when you don't have coordination
and communication between chapters. On the other hand, it is a start.

At the very least, I think the ICG BoD should take some time to discuss
how each chapter can help offset the cost issue, so that the remaining
issues can be covered. In conjunction with covering these issues, look
into raising the subscription rate. Dropping the CQ now for lack of
funds only exacerbates an existing situation. (No CQ = No articles =
dropped memberships).

5. The ICG and CQ are both suffering from an apparent lack of purpose
or direction, which makes justifying a raise in funds difficult,
if not downright impossible.

Chris Ballis couldn't have said it better. Without the CQ what does my
ICG membership do for me? Voting rights at the Annual Meeting doesn't
mean beans to most of the membership since the vast majority don't
attend
meetings, and without a communication method that reaches all members,
they don't know what the issues might be that come up during the meeting
anyway.

I had always argued for making CQ mandatory for ICG membership, but as I
presently have the option with the Pups, I don't currently subscribe.
(In
fact, until this year, I was only a local member of the Pups, having
dropped my ICG membership entirely when I dropped out of the GCFCG.)

It used to be that membership in the ICG got you a discount in the
current Costume-Con, but with the ICG and Costume-Con officially
detatched, that becomes a courtesy extended by the Costume-Con committee
and not a right guaranteed by membership.

I seem to recall that there was a committee to discuss the purpose of
the ICG - has the committee disbanded? What were its conclusions?

I know - not a lot of answers - only more questions. Here's another
question - If there are established committees and published reports,
can these be added to the web site? It might give the membership another
clue about what the ICG does for its members.

I wish this could be more helpful - I don't even know if it will all
make sebse, but I've been trying to write it for a week now, and it's
the best I can do one-handed, with braincells leaving as fast as the
baby can suck them out of me!

Just muddying the waters a little more...

Betsy

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
mailto:WebInvent@... or visit http://www.WebInvent.com/
mailto:Costume-Con@... or visit http://www.Costume-Con.org/
mailto:betsy@... or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
************************************************************************

It can happen.  Some time ago, we had a string of messages which were being
duplicated to somepeople and not to others.  Some people we also getting
unreadable messages.

Bruno


>If it has posted multiple times I apologize as it did not show up in the
>messages I am reciving from the ICG list and the digest listed it as [This
>message is not in displayable format]
>and two private messages asked what is said. also mentioning the "[This
>message is not in displayable format]" in their versions of the digest.
>
>Stephanie
>

Not a problem for us.  We try to book well in advance whenever possible.

Elaine

>From: "Costume-Con 19" <capsam@...>
>Reply-To: ICG-D@egroups.com
>To: <ICG-D@egroups.com>
>Subject: [ICG-D] Hotel Cutoff Dates
>Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:54:17 -0700
>
>
>
>Costume-Con 19 is doing some renegotiating with our hotel to make a change
>in our contract.  The hotel's price for the change we want to make is to
>move back the cutoff date for room reservations to April 12, six weeks
>before the con.  Can those of you who are coming (or thinking of coming) to
>Calgary live with that date?
>
>Eileen Capes
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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Dear Eileen--

I have no problem with making reservations 6 weeks in advance for the
hotel.   What I want to know is, will they extend our room rate (which I
assume is at least a bit of a discount) to cover several days before the
con, if we want to come and maybe sightsee a bit?

Yours in costuming,  lisa A
________________________________________________________________
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Lasted updated:  10/15/2000

For ICG business:

     webmaster@...          For items about the web pages
    listmaster@...          For items or issues about the mailing lists
ICG-BOD-owner@egroups.com
   ICG-D-owner@egroups.com
           icg@...          For anything else

The following also work:

     heyyou@...
<anything>@costume.org

They all go into a single mailbox, but using a specific address
makes my sorting easier.

Side note:  I sort the Mailing Lists based on the Subject, ie:
[ICG-L], [ICG-BOD], etc.  I check my inbox on a regular basis,
but not the mailing lists.  Please don't assume I'll see a
message quickly just because it's posted to a mailing list
or is forwarded while still containing the mailing list name.

Please note:  costume is NOT plural and the top level domain is ORG.

My personal mail address:

ICG business messages will be forwarded back to the ICG account
for answering from there.

       Eoin@...
      JohnO@...
johalloran@...
<any-standard-variant-of-my-name>@TyeDye.Org

Please note:  The top level domain is ORG

Note:  The account icg@... is a archival account which
I check every few months.  So don't bother sending anything
there.    Hmmm, need to get that moved too.
<currently not archiving>

If you really need to get in touch with me in a hurry:

Home Phone:  510-713-9519, till midnight, pacific, GMT -8

If you want to send me hardcopy:

   36024 Cabrillo Drive
   Fremont, CA  94536

John O'Halloran
ICG Web/ListMaster

Last update 10/15/2000 (minor edits)

Quoting

****  Do it  ****

Please quote or paraphrase the original message you are replying to.

I often play "catch-up", reading a large number of messages in one
sitting, but I still occasionally say "Huh?" to someone's one
line reply to message posted days ago.

Think about how confused someone who has hours or even days
between reading messages can get.

****  Don't do too much of it  ****

When you quote, please do some trimming.

* Delete the list sig
* Delete the persons sig
* Delete details of an event you are commenting on
* Trim down the original post to just what you are replying to.
     There is no need to quote 3 paragraphs of message,
     when you are addressing something in just one of them,
     or just to say:  "I agree." or "Me too."

Thanks
    John O'Halloran
    ICG Web/ListMaster

Last updated 11/08/99.

You can find the following ICG Official documents on the ICG Web Site:

Bylaws  http://www.costume.org/admin/icgbl92.html

Standing Rules
         http://www.costume.org/admin/icgstrl1.html

General Information Press Release in text format
         http://www.costume.org/admin/press981231.txt

General Information Flyer
         http://www.costume.org/admin/flyer.html

ICG Annual Meeting proxy form in text format
         http://www.costume.org/admin/proxy.txt

Lifetime Achievement Award winners
         http://www.costume.org/admin/lifetime.txt

ICG 1999 Budget
         http://www.costume.org/admin/budget99.txt

Presidents Messages from March 1998 to the current month
	 Check the main page for exact locations

Presidential Rulings - Executive decisions of the ICG President.
         Check the main page for exact locations

IRS 501(c)(3) documents and Maryland Articles of Incorporation.
	 Coming soon.

Current list of Local Chapters
	 http://www.costume.org/chapters.html

How to form your own Local Chapter
	 http://www.costume.org/about/HowTo.html

Webmaster mode on...

Ads for conventions and discussions of bids for upcoming conventions are
OK.

Just don't virtually plaster 1-sheets all over the list.

    JohnO

Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:
>
> I promise NOT to use this list as a means of advertising for Charlotte
> 2004, but
> this is the BEST news that I've heard so far.  If you are like us, you
> can't
> really afford to build a great costumes, travel & pay high room
> rates.  Check
> this out:

Personal comment mode...

Hey folks, don't forget Susan is the proposed Masquerade Director
for the Charlotte in 2004 Worldcon Bid.

Check out http://www.scenic-city.com/charlotte2004/
   for more info on the Charlotte bid

Check out http://www.cdc.net/~stringer/Charlotte2004.htm
   for more info about the Charlotte bid Masquerade.

JohnO

Jeff & Susan Stringer wrote:
>
> I promise NOT to use this list as a means of advertising for Charlotte
> 2004, but
> this is the BEST news that I've heard so far.  If you are like us, you
> can't
> really afford to build a great costumes, travel & pay high room
> rates.  Check
> this out:

I just happened to stop by one of the local Goodwill's Monday night.
I was really debating on whether or not I needed go to Goodwill or
not.  I almost didn't go, but finally decided what the hell.

As a result, I now have a 36" 4 harness Leclerc weaving loom sitting
in the middle of my living room.  As well as a 36" Schact tapestry
loom.

I just couldn't pass up $200 for the pair.

Now if I could only find some time and more space in my apartment, I
could start working on custom textiles for costumes. :-)

Bruno

Dear Bruno--

(you poor silly fool)

I commend you even for having the optimism of believing that you have the
kind of time needed to learn and use your looms to make custom textiles
for costumes.

I have a table loom and actually took a class some years ago in loom
weaving.  If you get to it, yo u'll love it.  If you can get a hold of
some of the very first "Threads" magazines, they had quite a few articles
and advertisements on loom weaving.

Yours in costuming,  Lisa A.
________________________________________________________________
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Time?  Space?  What costumer doesn't want those?  Money is the other thing.

Elaine

>Now if I could only find some time and more space in my apartment, I
>could start working on custom textiles for costumes. :-)
>

_________________________________________________________________________
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But Lisa,

I took a year of weaving in College.  I already know how to use the loom and
still have my sample book of different weaves.  I loved it.  I acquired a very
simple table loom shortly thereafter, but it's just not the same as a floor
loom.  I equate weaving at a floor loom to playing the piano.

One of the pieces that I have hanging here in my apartment is woven entirely of
multi colored telephone wire.  Another piece which I've lost was woven from
polyethelyne ribbon and saran wrap.

I'm really excited.

Bruno

>(you poor silly fool)
>
>I commend you even for having the optimism of believing that you have the
>kind of time needed to learn and use your looms to make custom textiles
>for costumes.

Yep, both lists are set to allow attachments.

However, attachments are removed from messages
in the daily digests.

Therefore, if a member has elected to receive the
list(s) as a daily digest, they have to go to
the web page and view the message in the archive
to access the attachment.

Hope this clarifies the attachment issue.
   JohnO

ICG WebMaster - John O'Halloran wrote:
>
> I originally set the list to not allow attachments,
> but I though I set them back to allow attachments.
>
> I'll check the settings.
>
>    JohnO
>
> Carol Mitchell wrote:
> >
> > I keep getting "this message contained attachments"
> > instead of a message. I hope these attachments aren't
> > crucial.

No traffic for 2 days...

Janet Anderson said:

>> I have just had a marathon read-through of the ICG/CQ discussion and
have a few comments.

First, for those who don't know/have forgotten or just don't care - I'm
one of the Keepers of Archival Knowledge, since  I am a co-founder of the
ICG.<<

Let me begin by acknowledging  Janet's contributions to the costuming
community, as we know it.

But I feel I must disagree with what she has said.

--snip--

               >>Central vs decentralized organization

--snip--

As I understand it, the main activities of the ICG are still
chapter-oriented and to avoid a powerful national group dictating to the
chapters, I intentionally set the initial dues at $1 a person and made
the money flow from the chapters to the ICG. If the money comes from the
individual members to a national group and then back to the chapters, in
my experience, national gets to thinking it can set the guidelines on how
it can be spent. And if you send them a lot of money (i.e. big dues) they
have lots to spend and get even more dicatorial. A weak national/central
organization gives the local group more autonomy. I felt and still feel,
that the chapter is the heart and soul of our organization and that we
should solve our financial problems without setting up a strong central
organization.

That being said, good grief, take the dues to $3! After 15 years, we can
stand it!<<

Pardon my French, but "community" won't mean squat if there isn't one!
The weak central organization is dying for a lack of funds--a dollar a
year is a joke. A sick joke. Three dollars a year is a joke. $10 a year
is a joke.

Dues for this organization should be a minimum of $20/yr. This IS an
instance of when throwing money at a problem will solve it.

Janet speaks of a strong national organization dictating to the local
chapters--do not be mislead by her fears, real or created. A strong
national organization can provide a product (the CQ) to all its members
(hello, Australia! hello, Canada!) of which they can be proud, and use as
a recruiting tool at the local level.

                    >> Belonging to a chapter if you are an outlander

When Marty and I wrote the first set of organizational guidelines, we
stated that any member could belong to any chapter he/she chose,
irrespective of geographic location. We discussed a "member at large"
membership type, but with a dues structure coming to the ICG through a
chapter, we didn't have a good way to implement that. And also, as noted
above, this was always intended to have a strong local focus. Since this
was a chapter-based organization from the very beginning, you did have to
pick a chapter to belong to. But you could pick any one anywhere!

Since the very beginning,  the CGW has had a fair number of "out-of-area"
members who like our newsletter and general style. Among the CGW, Sick
Pups and SLUTS, to name three that span the USA and publish regular
newsletters, a member could get at least 1/3 of a continent close to
others. The CGW has set up a number of sub-chapters over the years, to
serve the needs of its members in particular areas, and has "Graduated"
three of them to full chapter status as we got enough folks in an area to
go it alone.  CGW has always been a large, diverse chapter and a home to
those not otherwise in an affiliated chapter area.<<

This completely ignores the problem of there being NO local chapter to
belong to. If I live 500 miles from the nearest chapter, am I obliged to
live vicariously through the exploits of people I don't know and may
never meet, because Janet does not approve of a national chapter?

It is of historical interest that the original structure was set up a
particular way; it is of probably little relevance now.

And I consider it grossly inappropriate to proslytize for a chapter that
does not include membership in the ICG with its local chapter dues.

     >>Newsletter sharing and keeping each other informed.

The CGW has sent its monthly newsletter to the ICG President and to every
chapter for which we had a current address for many years. We have
enjoyed receiving the newsletters of other chapters in exchange. Perhaps
this informal system should be incorporated into the Standing Rules in
the following format, so that the custom has more than informal status:

****    Proposed standing rule: It shall be customary for each chapter
publishing a newsletter to mail a copy to all other ICG chapters, the ICG
President and the Costumer's Quarterly editor. *****

Note the wording is "customary" not "mandatory", so if a chapter can't do
it, they don't get dinged for it! This does help keep the chapters up to
date on what's going on with each other.

The CGW has also made it a policy to offer subscriptions to "Squeals" to
other ICG members who wish to receive its newsletter in addition to their
own. Current rate is $10 per year. Perhaps other chapters would like to
do the same and the chapter subscription information could be published
in the CQ!.<<

Wow. If you don't live in the CGW neighborhood, it is impossible to know
how utterly misleading most of the above is.

I know, for a fact, that the CGW newsletter is sent, gratis, to other
chapters and the ICG President. I know, for a fact, that other chapters
send their newsletters to the CGW P.O. box.

I am unable to recall a single mention of what newsletters have been
received, which officer holds them as part of his or her duties, and how
the general membership may request access to them.

I am unable to recall the last time some item from one of these other
newsletters was quoted in the CGW newsletter. How does this "... help
keep the chapters up to date on what's going on with each other"?

As to the proposed standing rule, it is a lovely custom, a thoughtful
gesture, on the part of the CGW. As an ICG standing rule, please let it
die without a second, hmm? We have heard the CQ editor, past and current,
beg and plead and scream to the heavens above for input from the
chapters. How will a standing rule with no teeth to it change this?

Furthermore, the CQ editor does not want to republish material from other
sources. He wants NEW articles, "never-before-seen-in-captivity" stuff,
writing fit for an international audience.

In short,  Janet Anderson created the ICG with a certain structure, which
she does not want changed. But unless that structure is changed, the ICG
may die.

The ICG needs a strong central organization which collects real money
from its members, in order to put out a classy CQ to recruit new members
and be a real tool of communication for its existing members.

Bruce B.

"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." --Walt Disney

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From a member who hasn't caught up with the e-groups list change <g>.

From:  "Alix Jordan" <eddana@...>  | Block address
Subject:         Fwd: Re: costumes (fwd)

Gentlebeings:

    I have just received this message, from Deb Geisler, on the Boston
Worldcon bid; concerning costumes and masquerades.  I am forwarding the
information to all of you.  Please, bear with me if you recieve this
message twice, however, I have not received anything form the ICG list,
in several days, so I don't know if I've got a computer glitch, or
what.  This way, I'll find out if I'm on the list; I'll also get the
message to some one, out there, who can forward it, if I can't.  Now,
if you've followed my rambling...here we go.

Alixandra
eddana@...


> > >
Thanks very much for writing to Boston in 2004.  Please feel free to
send any other queries our way, too.
>
Boston in 2004 is a worldcon bid by the same group that put on
Noreascons 2 & 3 (and the chairman from Noreascon 1 is still on our
committee, too). We've always actively encouraged and welcomed both
hall costumes and the best quality masquerades possible.
>
That policy surely isn't going to change if we win the right to host
the 2004 Worldcon.  In fact, we can even offer costumers a lovely
bonus, because of our facilities:  if it *does* get hot in Boston in
2004 (or rainy, or both), costumers who wish to go from their hotel
rooms in our two main hotels directly to the convention center will
never have to go outside.  The facilities are all connected -- the
Sheraton has a direct >connection to the Hynes Convention Center, and
the Marriott is connected via air-conditioned walkway.
>
Members of our committee are active in all of the many facets of
fandom, and a number of them attended this year's Costume Con (just as
the do every year).  I know they are hoping we'll have a chance to
present fandom with a wonderful worldcon masquerade.
>
:-)  As for me personally, I'm not a costumer...but I love wearing
them and have spent time at several cons teaching certain beading
techniques to people who *can* sew.  Our Ladies Sewing Circle and
Terrorist Society (which made more than 300 starry vests in about three
and a half years) only lets me work with a glue gun.
>
Please do let me know if there are other, more specific details you'd
like about Boston in 2004 or our bid.  You can write me at this address
or write to deb@....
>
>Regards,
>
>Deb Geisler
>Chairman
>Boston in 2004
>
>==

Once again:  Is there any currently existing rule that will prevent a new
chapter from forming if that chapter does not plan to hold meetings?
	 Once formed, that chapter could decide on its own whether to keep in touch
by email, or to employ the alternatives of a newsletter that could be
mailed  to those who don't have email (that request would require first
class mail postage), and an electronic form for those who do.  Obviously,
such a chapter would be designed to collect membership fees and turn around
and give them to the ICG, thereby sparing the treasurer from having to keep
two kinds of records.  These types of choices would be up to the new
chapter, not the D-list.
	 Since one can join any chapter, no matter where it is located, what is
stopping the chapter of no fixed abode from forming right now?  Does anyone
actually want to do it, or just to discuss it?
	 I am interested in the ICG as an Educational Organization (but definitely
NOT in  heavy politics and personality cliques).   It is for this reason
that I would be interested in helping to form the new chapter. Anyone else?

	 It has been my opinion all along that having the newsletter or journal is
the only thing that makes the national/international organization into a
community.  It is also key to being an Educational Organization.  Having an
optional newsletter is throwing away the organization's function and
identity.  I obviously also think that the membership should be increased
to include and cover the Quarterly.
Dana MacDermott