Lasted updated:  10/15/2000

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<currently not archiving>

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John O'Halloran
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Administrivia: About the ICG mailing lists.

Due to a crash of the Best List Server in early October,
the ICG mailing lists were moved to eGroups.  When the
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     "Huh?" you say.  When this list was set up, its intention was
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John O'Halloran
ICG List/WebMaster

* I originally used Rip as in the sense of a ripping seam, but when
capitalized, its other meaning worked as well.

Last update 11/13/2000 (minor edits)

Quoting

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* Delete the list sig
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Thanks
    John O'Halloran
    ICG Web/ListMaster

Last updated 11/08/99.

You can find the following ICG Official documents on the ICG Web Site:

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Hi!

This is sooo not my period. Can anyone help this guy, short of sending
him to the local library (which is my impulse to do)?

Thanks!

Betsy

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Puritans
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:00:34 -0400
From: "Rammelkamp, Charles" <Charles.Rammelkamp@...>
To: "'betsy@...'" <betsy@...>

Hi, I've got a general idea how Puritan men and women dressed -- i.e.,
plainly -- but I wondered if you could direct me to something more
specific
on the web.  Thanks.

Just a heads-up here; those of you planning to attend CC20 might want to
look into booking your flights soon.  The agent I have been working with
tells me that summer flights to Australia are filling up fast on several
of the more budget-minded carriers.  Malaysian Airlines has already sold
out of the dates I wanted, and Singapore Airlines is going fast, and
those are the two cheapest we could find.  After those on the price scale
is Cathay Pacific, followed by the major North American carriers.

My daughter and I are flying out in January, so that may have some
bearing on availability, but it would be wise to check before you make
your plans.

Christopher, could you please post the details about the United Airlines
deal for comparison?

-- Katherine

I have what will probably seem like a really stupid, off-topic question, but
this list is the only direct contact I have with people who live in the
southern hemisphere.

From Australia or New Zealand, does the man in the moon (that imaginary human
face we see by connecting the dark maria) appear to be upside-down?

Think about it. From the northern hemisphere, our point of view is more or
less aligned with the moon's north pole. From the southern hemisphere, it
should be more aligned with the moon's south pole.

Randall

Randall,

My brother the scientist thinks I'm nuts, but when I was
down under in '99, I distinctly recall thinking the moon
looked skewed from Northern Hemisphere "normal".  Not a
full 180 degrees, but definitely "turned".

-- Katherine

randwhit@... wrote:

> >From Australia or New Zealand, does the man in the moon (that imaginary human
> face we see by connecting the dark maria) appear to be upside-down?
>
> Think about it. From the northern hemisphere, our point of view is more or
> less aligned with the moon's north pole. From the southern hemisphere, it
> should be more aligned with the moon's south pole.
>
> Randall

> >From Australia or New Zealand, does the man in the moon (that imaginary
human
> face we see by connecting the dark maria) appear to be upside-down?


To really confuse the issue, from Australia it is comparitively "sideways"
to the way you see it in America. The angle changes slightly depending upon
which part of the hemisphere you are looking at it.

Come to think of it, we are coming up to a full moon so I had better go
around to the old cemetary here tomorrow to see what the weirdos have
scraped into the ground overnight,

-C.

> Hi!
>
> This is sooo not my period. Can anyone help this guy, short of sending
> him to the local library (which is my impulse to do)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Betsy
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Puritans
> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:00:34 -0400
> From: "Rammelkamp, Charles" <Charles.Rammelkamp@...>
> To: "'betsy@...'" <betsy@...>
>
> Hi, I've got a general idea how Puritan men and women dressed -- i.e.,
> plainly -- but I wondered if you could direct me to something more
> specific
> on the web.  Thanks.
>
I seem to recall Simplicity and McCalls having Pilgrim patterns for several
years now. Just how accurate does he want to be?

Until later--

Carole

Hi, folks!

This is a quick note to let you know that the deadline has passed and
one official bid was received by Karen Dick for CC23 in 2005.

That bid was for Salt Lake City, Utah, April 29-May 2, 2005.

The bidding information will be available on the Costume-Con site as I
have time to transcribe it, unless I receive an electronic version from
the Bid Committee.

Much of it appears to be the same as the previous bid, for CC22 in 2004.
That information is still available online at:

	 http://www.costume-con.org/CClink/CC22.shtml

(The info on CC22's SLC bid is located at the bottom of the page.)

If you have any questions, please let me know.

And, yes, even though there is only one bid, Site Selection will still
take place - there could always be a write-in bid!

Cheers,

Betsy Delaney
Costume-Con Archivist

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

************************************************************************
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************************************************************************

I have two Masters degrees.  It is the edging of the hood, which is a
separate piece from the robe that has the color code.  When I got my first
Masters (Architecture) the rental company UC Berkeley used was out of the
correct one, so it was suggested I use another.  I went without a hood (or
robe actually) rather than use the wrong one.  But that was before I really
started costuming.
	 By the time I got my second Masters I had a  different approach.  Bruce
made the hood, and I used a robe that I had painted with  images taken from
an astronomy text.  It had become a family tradition, having been
originally painted for my son, Jaron, when he graduated from High School,
and has been used in other graduations.  It does have the Enterprise in
there as well.  The cap is similarly painted.  Of course, that degree was
in Costume design.
	 I also use it as a simple hall costume at cons.

	 As to Harry pulling the robe over his head...  If it zips, and was zipped
when he picked it up, it could very well have been pulled on over his
head.  Why would a boy bother unzipping and rezipping?  But we should check
with our British contingency as to the nature of academic robes there at
this time.
	 We only wear the robes for ceremonies, and they are cheap synthetics,
often merely rented unless you are getting a doctorate.
	 I have several robes of assorted sizes materials and a couple of colors
(some bought second hand) as they keep being useful in various costumes.
Dana

I have costumed "The Crucible" and researched the Puritan
costuming.  It changed by time as we would suspect.  The interpretation of
sumptuary laws tended to vary by the amount of money you had.
          There are patterns for the costumes we associate with the early
(Thanksgiving) Puritans.  If he wants anything beyond those, I think the
Library or a bookstore is appropriate in this case.
          Not everything is on the web.  (Horrors!)
Dana


>This is sooo not my period. Can anyone help this guy, short of sending
>him to the local library (which is my impulse to do)?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Betsy
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>Subject: Puritans
>Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 15:00:34 -0400
>From: "Rammelkamp, Charles" <Charles.Rammelkamp@...>
>To: "'betsy@...'" <betsy@...>
>
>Hi, I've got a general idea how Puritan men and women dressed -- i.e.,
>plainly -- but I wondered if you could direct me to something more
>specific
>on the web.  Thanks.

>
>And, yes, even though there is only one bid, Site Selection will still
>take place - there could always be a write-in bid!
>
>Cheers,
>
>Betsy Delaney
>Costume-Con Archivist


I strongly suggest checking with Toni Lay to see if the Baptisttown Ladies
are still in the hoosegow.  I had heard a rumor that the official hotel for
that bid, Madame Bovary's Whoopie Parlor & All Night Sex Emporium, had been
closed by the EPA, but in NJ, who'd notice?

E

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> > Hi, I've got a general idea how Puritan men and women dressed -- i.e.,
>  > plainly -- but I wondered if you could direct me to something more
>  > specific
>  > on the web.  Thanks.

My rule of thumb has usually been to take the "Three Musketeers" and suck all
the color out of them.

This is different from the recent film "The Musketeer" in which you take the
Three Musketeers, give them a burning need for prozac*, and smear mud all
over them.

Randall

*Athos is supposed to have depression issues, but jeez, not the whole corps!

> As to Harry pulling the robe over his head...  If it zips, and was zipped
>when he picked it up, it could very well have been pulled on over his
>head.  Why would a boy bother unzipping and rezipping?


That's the truth!  None of my boys ever bothered to un- anything if they
could avoid it.  To this day, my oldest "boy" - Carl! - keeps his shirts
buttoned and pulls them over his head.  The only exception is his tux
shirts, as the studs must come out for cleaning.

E

_________________________________________________________________
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> I strongly suggest checking with Toni Lay to see if the Baptisttown Ladies
> are still in the hoosegow.  I had heard a rumor that the official hotel
for
> that bid, Madame Bovary's Whoopie Parlor & All Night Sex Emporium, had
been
> closed by the EPA, but in NJ, who'd notice?
>
> E
Whoo Hoo! Sounds like a hip hop happening place for a CC!!
Does this mean that there will be an amendment to Rostler's "no costume is
no costume rule"?

Stephanie

In a message dated 10/2/01 1:43:38 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
ecmami@... writes:

> To this day, my oldest "boy" - Carl! - keeps his shirts
>  buttoned and pulls them over his head.

That's an old bachelor trick I do myself. It cuts down on how often you have
to iron the shirt's front closure.

On some cheap flannel shirts with closures that refuse to lay straight, I've
gone so far as to sew the danged things shut, leaving only the top two
buttons active.

Randall

In answer to several questions:

Supporting memberships for CC20 are still available at $US25;

Supporting memberships include the right to vote for the 2005 Costume-Con,
for people not attending the convention, a voting form will be posted out;

There has been one bid for the 2005 con;

The voting form will go along the lines of
[ ] Bidder
[ ] No convention;

Bids for 2005 have now officially closed;

Individual CCs are not authorised to take bid, they must go through the
service mark owners and their representatives, all info on bidding and other
Costume-Con stuff can be found on the CostumeConnections web site,

-C.

>Does this mean that there will be an amendment to Rostler's "no costume is
>no costume rule"?
>
>Stephanie
>


Probably not.  But there does seem to be a big opportunity for the Single
Pattern Contest!

E


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Christopher Ballis wrote:
>
> In answer to several questions:

[snip]

> The voting form will go along the lines of
> [ ] Bidder
> [ ] No convention;

and [ ] Write-In Bid (per the ConStitution).

Cheers,

Betsy

--
Betsy R. Delaney
Web Mistress at large
WebInvent.com, Inc.

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mailto:betsy@... or visit http://www.hawkeswood.com/
************************************************************************

> From: MicheleSol@...
>
> > That's the truth!  None of my boys ever bothered to un- anything if they
> > could avoid it.  To this day, my oldest "boy" - Carl! - keeps his shirts
> > buttoned and pulls them over his head.  The only exception is his tux
>
> It's not limited to boys/men.  If it will go over that way, I very seldom
> unzip my dresses or shirts.  And I don't have time to be bothered with
> unbuttoning things.  They have to be buttoned to be washed and dried.
>
Unfortunately, my figure is odd enough that I *have* to unzip or unbutton stuff.
Especially skirts and pants. An 18" differential between waist and hips makes
it mandatory.

Until later--

Carole

I know where you're coming from Elaine--I haven't met a man yet who
unbuttons his shirts to take them off and then buttons them up after
putting them on--everything just goes on over the head!  Is this a basic
gender difference, so you think?

Yours in costuming,  Lisa A.
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In a message dated 10/04/2001 10:00:48 AM Central Daylight Time,
ICG-D@yahoogroups.com writes:

> I know where you're coming from Elaine--I haven't met a man yet who
>  unbuttons his shirts to take them off and then buttons them up after
>  putting them on--everything just goes on over the head!  Is this a basic
>  gender difference, so you think?

All the guys I know unbutton them - I never heard of this not unbuttoning
them thing until I saw it here on this list. Maybe it's a regional thing, but
I've never seen it.

Mary

It must be that broken chromosome.  Not their fault.

E

>I know where you're coming from Elaine--I haven't met a man yet who
>unbuttons his shirts to take them off and then buttons them up after
>putting them on--everything just goes on over the head!  Is this a basic
>gender difference, so you think?
>
>Yours in costuming,  Lisa A.


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Now wait a second...I must protest. I'm very good about unbuttoning my shirts
and putting them neatly in the dirty clothes.

It's my habit of leaving my pants on the floor, belt and accoutrements still in
place, fireman style, that Beloved Wife has problems with. :)

JSM--as info, it's a throwover from when I didn't have a home computer
connection to work and would have to occasionally go in late at night to fix
problems...

>
>Now wait a second...I must protest. I'm very good about unbuttoning my
>shirts and putting them neatly in the dirty clothes.
>


OK, that's a whole 'nother topic.
How many men not only know where the dirty clothes should go, but also
actually put them there?
"On the floor" is NOT the correct answer!

Next problem - Is this a sexist topic or a cultural/costuming one?
People-with-nothing-better-to-worry-about want to know!

E


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Personally, I'd rather take an extra 30 seconds getting dressed to button
up a shirt than try to pull it on over my head.  Arms flailing in the air,
trying to rotate the shoulder into place.  I've put on T-tunics that were a
little too small and had to be pulled on over the head.  It's not fun, and
even harder to get them off.  T-shirts stretch they're made to go on over
the head, dress shirts aren't.

My 2c, Bruno


Lisa A Ashton writes:

I know where you're coming from Elaine--I haven't met a man yet who
unbuttons his shirts to take them off and then buttons them up after
putting them on--everything just goes on over the head!  Is this a basic
gender difference, so you think?

---- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa A Ashton" <lisa58@...>
To: <ICG-D@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2001 8:31 AM
Subject: Re: [ICG-D] Re:mens shirts


> I know where you're coming from Elaine--I haven't met a man yet who
> unbuttons his shirts to take them off and then buttons them up after
> putting them on--everything just goes on over the head!  Is this a basic
> gender difference, so you think?
>
> Yours in costuming,  Lisa A.
>
Lisa
Remind me at Arisia this year to introduce you to my husband Phil. He not
only unbuttons his shirts when taking them off, but he does his own laundry,
and ironing too.

Stephanie