As most of you probably know, the fourth Hornblower "film", "The Frogs and
the Lobsters", will be broadcast in the UK this coming Friday (Good
Friday).

For those of us in the United States (or thereabouts), the cable Arts &
Entertainment Network (A&E) will be presenting the four parts on
successive Sundays in April, starting one week from today, Easter Sunday.

April  4th and  6th -- Film 1:  "The Even Chance"
	 (US Title "The Duel")
April 11th and 13th -- Film 2: "The Examination for Lieutenant"
	 (US Title "The Fire Ships")
April 18th and 20th -- Film 3:  "The Duchess and the Devil"
April 25th and 27th -- Film 4:  "The Frogs and the Lobsters"
	 (US Title "The Wrong War")

Times:  All films will be broadcast at 8:00 p.m. ET, 7:00 p.m. CT, 9:00
p.m. PT.

For more information, visit the A&E Web site:
<http://www.aetv.com/scenes/horatio/>

I plan to stock up on video cassettes, but it's possible to *buy* all four
films now through A&E ($59.95 USD - U.S. and Canada only).  If they're as
good as I hope they are, I'll certainly be buying the set.  As for those
on the other side of the Pond, I know that "The Even Chance" is available
in PAL format from Meridian TV
<http://www.meridiantv.co.uk/shop/indexhornblow.html> for £14.99 GBP, but
I'm not sure about the other three parts.  Anyone know if they're all
available, and at what price?

Seren Lyon

Seren wrote:

>*** RIP Dudley Pope (1925-1997) ***

You'll see several sites give the date of Pope's death as 25 April 1998,
but that's incorrect.  He was born 29 December 1925 and died 25 April
1997.

While I'm at it, here's a list of his "Ramage" and "Yorke" books for the
benefit of those who might like to read them.

NICHOLAS RAMAGE:

	 Ramage (1965)
	 Ramage and the Drumbeat (1967/68)
	 Ramage and the Freebooters (1969)
	 Governor Ramage R.N. (1973)
	 Ramage's Prize (1974)
	 Ramage and the Guillotine (1975/76)
	 Ramage's Diamond (1976)
	 Ramage's Mutiny (1977)
	 Ramage and the Rebels (1978)
	 The Ramage Touch (1979)
	 Ramage's Signal (1980)
	 Ramage and the Renegades (1981)
	 Ramage's Devil (1982)
	 Ramage's Trial (1984)
	 Ramage's Challenge (1985)
	 Ramage at Trafalgar (1986)
	 Ramage and the Saracens (1988)
	 Ramage and the Dido (1989)

NED YORKE:

	 Convoy (1979)
	 Buccaneer (1981)
	 Decoy (1983)
	 Admiral (1986)
	 Galleon (1986)
	 Corsair (1987)

An excellent Dudley Pope site, which includes synopses of all the above
books, can be found at <http://winthrop.webjump.com/dpope.html>.

Seren Lyon

Serenleono wrote:

>> Only Dudley Pope has come close to capturing the same kind of "Man
>> Alone" protagonist that Forester created so successfully with
>> Hornblower.  Have you read any of the "Ramage" series?

Lobo replied:

>> Yes, some time ago, but I have not been able to find any recently.  I
>> believe they are out of print.  Do you know of a source for them?

I do have a few suggestions.

Powell's Used Books <http://www.powells.com/> has a copy of RAMAGE AND THE
RENEGADES, some from Pope's "Yorke" series, plus a handful of other books
by the author.

The Advanced Book Exchange <http://www.abebooks.com/> lists quite a few
"Ramage" books.

Town's End Books <http://www.townsendbooks.com/pope.htm> has a long list,
but they're all a bit pricey.  You might want to have a look at their list
of other authors, too, since it includes Parkinson, Kent, and Forester:
<http://www.townsendbooks.com/tebauth.htm>.

Your best bet, however, is to check with Tall Ships Books
<http://208.245.212.151/Businesses/TallShipsBooks/>, which offers quite a
few of the "Ramage" books at very reasonable prices.

And you might do better still just checking at your local used book shop
or antiquarian book service.  There are still more sources listed at
<http://www.cyber-dyne.com/~jkohnen/naut-lit.html>.

Seren

*** RIP Dudley Pope (1925-1997) ***

Serenleono wrote:

> From: Serenleono <verax@...>
>
>
> Only Dudley Pope has come close to capturing the same kind of "Man Alone"
> protagonist that Forester created so successfully with Hornblower.  Have
> you read any of the "Ramage" series?  Has anyone?
>
> Yes, some time ago, but I have not been able to find any recently.  I
> believe they are out of print.  Do you know of a source for them?

Lobo


>
>
> Seren
> The C. S. Forester Society home page:
> <http://www.teleport.com/~vamberry/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Ta Da! Come see our new web site!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Onelist: A free email community service
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Horatio Hornblower & other Naval Heroes discussion list.

Professor Livingston wrote:

>Hello all, and a big salute to the admiralty.

Thankee, sir, and welcome aboard.

>My first encounter with hornblower was in 1985, when a clerk in a
>bookstore steared me toward the hornblower section in preparation
>for a role playing adventure.(D & D)

Sounds as though he was following the example of Ernest Hemingway, who
once wrote "I recommend Forester to everyone literate I know."

Are there any Hornblower-specific role-playing games out there, I wonder?
Or any that capture the spirit of the era?  I've played the computer game
"Age of Sail", which involves sailing ship battles, and it's pretty
enjoyable, but limited.  The sea battles are fairly realistic and take
some calculating, but there's no interaction with one's officers and crew,
as I had hoped for.  I know other games offer that kind of interaction.

Seren Lyon

Lobo wrote:

>BTW, I can't seem to get into O'Brian.  A little far out for my
>tastes.  Maybe because I've read and reread Forester so many times
>that all others just don't cut it.  The cap'n of a man o'war must
>stay aloof and not show favoritism, especially to the ship's
>surgeon . . .

Only Dudley Pope has come close to capturing the same kind of "Man Alone"
protagonist that Forester created so successfully with Hornblower.  Have
you read any of the "Ramage" series?  Has anyone?

>Not good for morale and good order, you know.  Anybody else on
>the quarterdeck feel the same?

I'm always interested in a good friendship between characters, but the
Aubrey-Maturin relationship is alternately a strong point and a weak point
for O'Brian's books (or those I've read thus far).  What we would gather
from Hornblower's own mind in Forester's "third-person intuitive"
narrative, O'Brian offers as dialogue between the two men.  Then again,
sometimes it works very well.

Seren
The C. S. Forester Society home page:
<http://www.teleport.com/~vamberry/>

Michael Cummins wrote:

>I read alot myself in fact Im one of those dispicable book snobs, who
reads
>the best etc., but sometimes Iread harmless stuff for a break, everyone
>does I think, and I don't rate Foresters prose very highly in fact some
of
>his stuff doesn't cut it MMH, The Commodore, Lord Hornblower and Admiral
>Hornblower in W. I. for example. But they can be quite entertaining if
your
>in the mood even though they drag on a bit and are plagued by one
>dimensional charachters and dullness and old Horry is such a baby.

<chuckle>  I think his prose is solid enough for the genre, and the
dialogue fits the situations very realistically, but it's hard not to
admit that Forester's writing is rather lifeless in itself.  I don't think
there's a single quotable line in the entire series.  Still, that may be a
conscious reflection of the Hornblower character and not really a flaw.
From time to time the coincidences *do* get a little too uncanny for my
taste, but Charles Dickens's stories suffer from the same affliction.

It's the Hornblower character which fascinates me most of all, even above
the naval adventures themselves, and I think Forester remains remarkably
consistent throughout the whole saga with his portraiture of Hornblower.
Some have said he remained consistent to a fault, in fact, and Horry
didn't really grow as a person, as a real soul would during the course of
such a remarkable life.  That's a fair argument, I think, but I'm still
fond of our forever self-deprecatory sea captain whose "dignity above all
else" philosophy is superceded only by his devotion to duty.

[re: the usual period of lurking after joining a list or group]

>personally I think thats unbeliveably rude, if a friend arrived with
>another friend you didn't know you wouldn't expect them to sit back
>and be quiet.

It's reasonable for someone new to a Usenet newsgroup or electronic
discussion list to spend a short while listening to the chat or reading
the archives and FAQ (if there is one) to get a sense of how the people
who are already there act, what sorts of things are discussed, and what
has already *been* discussed.  We don't have an FAQ at this stage, but the
archives are available for public perusal at Onelist.  I'm encouraging new
subscribers to ignore the "lurk before your leap" period and jump right
in, but I don't think it's too unreasonable to expect someone new to read
the archives before posting.

Seren Lyon

>
> >They are among the best books I've ever read, quite frankly,
> >and I make a point of rereading them every year.
>
> While I can't honestly say that they're the *best written* books of all
> time, they are certainly among the most exciting adventure stories I've
> ever read.  Even the great Patrick O'Brian can't match him (in my
> opinion).  Alexander Kent does even come close.  And not even the
talented
> Dudley Pope could reach Forester's level with his "Ramage" novels, which
I
> also love.  I haven't reread the whole saga *every* year, as you have,
> Skyresh, but I can admit to having revisited Hornblower in his adventures
> on the wine-dark sea *many* times since first discovering the saga.

I read alot myself in fact Im one of those dispicable book snobs, who reads
the best etc., but sometimes Iread harmless stuff for a break, everyone
does I think, and I don't rate Foresters prose very highly in fact some of
his stuff doesn't cut it MMH, The Commodore, Lord Hornblower and Admiral
Hornblower in W. I. for example. But they can be quite entertaining if your
in the mood even though they drag on a bit and are plagued by one
dimensional charachters and dullness and old Horry is such a baby.

> [re: Cam's binaries]
> I know it's considered polite for newcomers to lurk for a while before
> contributing to a discussion group or list, but I'd like to invite
> everyone, since we're all new here, to skip that "probationary period"
and
> jump right in.
>
personally I think thats unbeliveably rude, if a friend arrived with
another friend you didn't know you wouldn't expect them to sit back and be
quiet.


M. Cummins

Cam wrote:

>There is a book called "Harbors and High Seas," which gives
>background details on the O'Brian novels (there is also another one,
>but I can't remember its name.) Is there a similiar book(s) about
>the Hornblower books?

There are several books the Hornblower fan should have on his shelf in
addition to the canon.

THE HORNBLOWER COMPANION
by C. S. Forester
Little Brown, 1964 (published posthumously)
(My hardcover 1st ed. doesn't have an ISBN, but my
Pinnacle Books paperback copy gives ISBN 0-523-00440-0.)
Contains maps and brief descriptions of the areas in which most of
Hornblower's adventures took place.  Best of all, at the back is a
personal commentary by Forester himself giving insight into his thoughts
and feelings about writing the saga.  Not really an essential book, but
very interesting reading.

THE LIFE AND TIMES OF HORATIO HORNBLOWER
by C. Northcote Parkinson
Michael Joseph Ltd, 1970
An excellent "biography" of Horatio Hornblower (written so convincingly
that many have actually been fooled into believing that Hornblower
actually lived), including many details you won't get anywhere else.  Not
quite canon, but many have accepted its descriptions of certain periods of
Hornblower's life -- left unexplored by Forester, such as his childhood
and death -- as if they were.  I highly recommend this one.

You O'Brian fans might also enjoy reading:

A SEA OF WORDS:  A Lexicon and Companion
for Patrick O'Brian's Seafaring Tales
by Dean King et al. (Owl Books, 1995; second ed. 1997)
ISBNs: 0-8050-5115-5 (hardcover) and 0-8050-5116-3 (paperback)

Seren Lyon

Admiral Skyresh wrote:

>I've read all the Hornblower books except the short stories and
>fragments published in HORNBLOWER ONE MORE TIME.  (Has anyone read
>those?)

I have.  They're interesting stories, to be sure, but not Forester's best
writing by any stretch -- which probably explains why the author didn't
include them in or adapt them for the canon saga.  Also, some of the dates
and situations actually conflict with events detailed in the novels.

I understand that this limited edition is very hard to find -- only 350
first edition copies were struck, -- but if you *can* find it, it's well
worth a read.  The collection comprises three short stories about
Hornblower -- "The Hand of Destiny", "Hornblower's Charitable Offering",
and "Hornblower and His Majesty" -- published in sundry magazines in the
1940s.  Also included are two short essays by Forester -- one reminiscing
about the creation of the saga (written 20 years after THE HAPPY RETURN)
and another about the London of his childhood -- and a rather wistful
(even critical) poem written to Horry, entitled "Ballade to an Old
Friend".

Oh, and by the way . . . Alexander Kent fans might be interested to learn
that the book was published for the Richard Bolitho Association, and Kent
penned the preface.

>They are among the best books I've ever read, quite frankly,
>and I make a point of rereading them every year.

While I can't honestly say that they're the *best written* books of all
time, they are certainly among the most exciting adventure stories I've
ever read.  Even the great Patrick O'Brian can't match him (in my
opinion).  Alexander Kent does even come close.  And not even the talented
Dudley Pope could reach Forester's level with his "Ramage" novels, which I
also love.  I haven't reread the whole saga *every* year, as you have,
Skyresh, but I can admit to having revisited Hornblower in his adventures
on the wine-dark sea *many* times since first discovering the saga.

[re: Cam's binaries]

>As a matter of fact, I happen to know that you did wipe out one person
>with your binaries.

Hmm.  Not that I'm aware of.  I did receive some complaints by private
e-pistle, and there were two members who said it had taken them quite a
long time to download all the attached files before they could get the
rest of their e-mail, but only one person has unsubscribed from
Hornblower-L since its creation, and that person wasn't among those who
complained.

Just so we can put the matter behind us . . .
Based upon the opinions offered by the vocal membership, I've amended the
List Greeting Message to include a paragraph asking that no binaries be
sent to the list.  I think it's best.  I'm also asking that no one post in
HTML, please.  I know there are browsers that will read and post HTML, but
I like my Eudora Pro 3.0.5 for e-mail, and it doesn't.

Cam:
>>How about keel-hauling someone Admiral? Or should I send some more
>>binary files?

<chuckle>  Keel-hauling's illegal on the cyber sea, I'm afraid, at least
according to the Articles, but perhaps I *could* allow a few native girls
to be brought on board . . .  That won't be breaking the rules, really,
only bending them a little.

Sky:
>[T]hreats are a bad way to make friends on the Internet . . . .

I don't believe Cam was really threatening to mailbomb Hornblower-L,
Skyresh.  That's not the way I read it, anyway.  I think he was suggesting
that a good second volley might stir things up a bit and bring some life
to the List.  Frankly, I can understand his frustration.  Cam was at least
trying to start a discussion, but getting no responses.  I've had that
happen myself, and it's hard not to take it personally.  (I was distracted
by real world concerns myself this week and last and didn't contribute a
response to Cam's messages either, which I regret.)  Not to worry, though.
  We're a young list and still trying to find our pace, but we have a
fascinating and multi-faceted subject and about a dozen subscribers on
board now.  What's more, the British "Hornblower" programmes are about to
air in the States on A&E (starting April 4th), and I'm sure that will help
to suggest topics for discussion and bring new members to the List.

I know it's considered polite for newcomers to lurk for a while before
contributing to a discussion group or list, but I'd like to invite
everyone, since we're all new here, to skip that "probationary period" and
jump right in.

Seren Lyon

Aye Mates.  Do start with MMH and follow chronologically.    BTW, I can't seem
to get into O'Brian.  A little far out for my tastes.  Maybe because I've read
and reread Forester so many times that all others just don't cut it.  The cap'n
of a man o'war must stay aloof and not show favoritism, especially to the ship's
surgeon, who usually wasn't much better than a barber (no offense to any barbers
out there - or surgeons for that matter!).   Not good for morale and good order,
you know.  Anybody else on the quarterdeck feel the same?



"Vincent St._James" wrote:

> From: Vincent St._James <St._James@...>
>
> Cam wrote:
>
> > Hey, sleepers. I am going to start a Hornblower book next.
> >It will be my first one.
> >
> > Where do I start?
>
> If you're just beginning to read the series, by all means start with Mr.
> Midshipman Hornblower (MMH). It's not my favorite of all the books (I like
> "Lieutenant Hornblower" or "Atropos" best), but it is a good introduction to
> the main character, since he's just entered the naval service. MMH is very
> episodic, and reads like a collection of short stories, even though they all
> do follow one another chronologically. The Hornblower movies about to air on
> A&E are all based upon stories from MMH.
>
> I hope you like them as much as I have.
>
> Vincent St. James
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Come check out our brand new web site!
> http://www.onelist.com
> Onelist: Making the Internet intimate
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Horatio Hornblower & other Naval Heroes discussion list.

Thank you, too. MMH it is. If it passes muster, I will be asking for
another title. There is a book called "Harbors and High Seas," which gives
background details on the O'Brian novels (there is also another one, but I
can't remember its name.) Is there a similiar book(s) about the Hornblower
books?

At 11:27 PM 3/25/99 EST, you wrote:
>From: Vincent St._James <St._James@...>
>
>Cam wrote:
>
>> Hey, sleepers. I am going to start a Hornblower book next.
>>It will be my first one.
>>
>> Where do I start?
>
>If you're just beginning to read the series, by all means start with Mr.
>Midshipman Hornblower (MMH). It's not my favorite of all the books (I like
>"Lieutenant Hornblower" or "Atropos" best), but it is a good introduction to
>the main character, since he's just entered the naval service. MMH is very
>episodic, and reads like a collection of short stories, even though they all
>do follow one another chronologically. The Hornblower movies about to air on
>A&E are all based upon stories from MMH.
>
>I hope you like them as much as I have.
>
>
>
>Vincent St. James
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Come check out our brand new web site!
>http://www.onelist.com
>Onelist: Making the Internet intimate
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Horatio Hornblower & other Naval Heroes discussion list.
>
>

Thanks, and I appreciate your bottom; although I might remark that it seems
in need of some desensitizing if it perceives a little tomfoolery as an
insult. As for the cove in binary sickbay: It will only make him stronger,
someday he will be thankful for it (although he may not share the feeling.)


At 08:11 PM 3/25/99 -0700, you wrote:
>From: "Skyresh Bolgolam" <galbet@...>
>
>Cam wrote:
>
>>Hello, Ahoy, Gesundheit, & etc. Anybody out there? A cove can sent a
>few
>>binary files and stir a little silt, but ask a simple question that
>should
>>be germaine to this group, and all you get is silence.
>
>I guess it's time for some of us to stop lurking, eh?  I mean, if Cam
>can join the group, cause a stir with a barrage of binaries, then insult
> everyone, including the list owner, in only a week (or has it been that
> long?), then I'd say it's time the rest of us stop waiting for someone
>else to start things and get involved.
>
>>Has anyone read more than one of these Hornblower books? If so, which
>one
>>should I read first? If you have only read one, would you read
>something
>>else first?
>
>I've read all the Hornblower books except the short stories and
>fragments published in HORNBLOWER ONE MORE TIME.  (Has anyone read
>those?)  They are among the best books I've ever read, quite frankly,
>and I make a point of rereading them every year.
>
>>Or is there nobody on this list? Did my bombardment of binary files
>wipe
>>you all out? Or are you only able to give opinions on binary files?
>
>As a matter of fact, I happen to know that you did wipe out one person
>with your binaries.  Hopefully he'll be rejoining the list once he finds
> a more reliable e-mail provider.
>
>>Should the books be read in the order copyrighted?
>
>I'd recommend that you read them in chronological order -- that is, in
>the order of Hornblower's life, beginning with MISTER MIDSHIPMAN
>HORNBLOWER, -- not the order in which they were written by Forester.
>Since they were written in such a convoluted order, I can't say that
>it's essential to read them chronologically.  Hornblower grows as a
>person, but not in an especially noticeable way, to be completely
>honest, and although earlier events are mentioned from time to time, it
>isn't as though you can't pick up any book and enjoy it without having
>read those which came before it.
>
>>How about keel-hauling someone Admiral? Or should I send some more
>binary
>>files?
>
>I think Seren's gone ashore for supplies.  But if I may offer some
>gratuitous advice:  threats are a bad way to make friends on the
>Internet -- especially threatening to, in effect, mailbomb a discussion
>list with binaries.  Have a little patience.  It's true that the list is
> starting off rather sluggishly.  That's as much my fault as everyone
>else's.  But it's best to be patient and just keep posting until someone
> takes an interest in what you have to say.  Being unpleasant will only
>win you enemies.
>
>Anyway, if you're an O'Brian fan -- and I love those books, too -- but
>haven't read any Hornblowers, you're in for a surprise.  I personally
>prefer Forester to O'Brian.
>
>Skyresh Bolgolam
>
>
>
>
>Get your FREE, Fun Email at http://www.flairmail.com
>
>At Flairmail, we have more domains for you to choose
>from than any other Web-Based Email service provider.
>Come take a look, we're sure to have some you like.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>New hobbies? New curiosities? New enthusiasms?
>http://www.onelist.com
>Sign up for a new email list today
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Horatio Hornblower & other Naval Heroes discussion list.
>
>

Cam wrote:

> Hey, sleepers. I am going to start a Hornblower book next.
>It will be my first one.
>
> Where do I start?

If you're just beginning to read the series, by all means start with Mr.
Midshipman Hornblower (MMH). It's not my favorite of all the books (I like
"Lieutenant Hornblower" or "Atropos" best), but it is a good introduction to
the main character, since he's just entered the naval service. MMH is very
episodic, and reads like a collection of short stories, even though they all
do follow one another chronologically. The Hornblower movies about to air on
A&E are all based upon stories from MMH.

I hope you like them as much as I have.



Vincent St. James

Cam wrote:

>Hello, Ahoy, Gesundheit, & etc. Anybody out there? A cove can sent a
few
>binary files and stir a little silt, but ask a simple question that
should
>be germaine to this group, and all you get is silence.

I guess it's time for some of us to stop lurking, eh?  I mean, if Cam
can join the group, cause a stir with a barrage of binaries, then insult
  everyone, including the list owner, in only a week (or has it been that
  long?), then I'd say it's time the rest of us stop waiting for someone
else to start things and get involved.

>Has anyone read more than one of these Hornblower books? If so, which
one
>should I read first? If you have only read one, would you read
something
>else first?

I've read all the Hornblower books except the short stories and
fragments published in HORNBLOWER ONE MORE TIME.  (Has anyone read
those?)  They are among the best books I've ever read, quite frankly,
and I make a point of rereading them every year.

>Or is there nobody on this list? Did my bombardment of binary files
wipe
>you all out? Or are you only able to give opinions on binary files?

As a matter of fact, I happen to know that you did wipe out one person
with your binaries.  Hopefully he'll be rejoining the list once he finds
  a more reliable e-mail provider.

>Should the books be read in the order copyrighted?

I'd recommend that you read them in chronological order -- that is, in
the order of Hornblower's life, beginning with MISTER MIDSHIPMAN
HORNBLOWER, -- not the order in which they were written by Forester.
Since they were written in such a convoluted order, I can't say that
it's essential to read them chronologically.  Hornblower grows as a
person, but not in an especially noticeable way, to be completely
honest, and although earlier events are mentioned from time to time, it
isn't as though you can't pick up any book and enjoy it without having
read those which came before it.

>How about keel-hauling someone Admiral? Or should I send some more
binary
>files?

I think Seren's gone ashore for supplies.  But if I may offer some
gratuitous advice:  threats are a bad way to make friends on the
Internet -- especially threatening to, in effect, mailbomb a discussion
list with binaries.  Have a little patience.  It's true that the list is
  starting off rather sluggishly.  That's as much my fault as everyone
else's.  But it's best to be patient and just keep posting until someone
  takes an interest in what you have to say.  Being unpleasant will only
win you enemies.

Anyway, if you're an O'Brian fan -- and I love those books, too -- but
haven't read any Hornblowers, you're in for a surprise.  I personally
prefer Forester to O'Brian.

Skyresh Bolgolam




Get your FREE, Fun Email at http://www.flairmail.com

At Flairmail, we have more domains for you to choose
from than any other Web-Based Email service provider.
Come take a look, we're sure to have some you like.

Hello, Ahoy, Gesundheit, & etc. Anybody out there? A cove can sent a few
binary files and stir a little silt, but ask a simple question that should
be germaine to this group, and all you get is silence.

Has anyone read more than one of these Hornblower books? If so, which one
should I read first? If you have only read one, would you read something
else first?

Or is there nobody on this list? Did my bombardment of binary files wipe
you all out? Or are you only able to give opinions on binary files?

Should the books be read in the order copyrighted? Should we pick our nose
in public?

How about keel-hauling someone Admiral? Or should I send some more binary
files?


At 11:15 PM 3/23/99 -0600, you wrote:
>From: Cam <bnc@...>
>
>Hey, sleepers. I am going to start a Hornblower book next. It will be my
>first one.
>
>Where do I start?

Hey, sleepers. I am going to start a Hornblower book next. It will be my
first one.

Where do I start?

Hello all, and a big salute to the admiralty.  Signed on a few days ago and am
welcome to be aboard.

My first encounter with hornblower was in 1985, when a clerk in a bookstore
steared me toward the hornblower section in preparation for a role playing
adventure.(D & D)  I fell in love with the series immediately.

My opinion on attachments is that I can't read them, being on webtv, so I am
opposed to them.

Hope to hear more from you guys later.

     Professor Livingston

Well it's not terribly important but it does clutter up ones inbox. Prehaps
if someone had a rare picture of someting Hornblower and everyone was
agreed that they wanted to see it, it might be attached.



M. Cummins

Since you're polling the officers, I guess I should delurk and voice my
opinion.

I didn't really have a problem receiving the attachments, but if I had a
  vote (and apparently I do) I'd say we shouldn't allow binaries on the
list.  I think it's traditional to keep discussion groups all-text and
binary groups discussion free.

I'm not criticizing the poster, understand, but I'm not really sure of
the purpose behind sending the passages.  I can understand including
short excerpts within the text of your message when trying to make a
particular point and need a direct example, but longer passages can be
referenced by giving the book's title and saying "you can find so-and-so
  near the middle of chapter x."

Just my opinion.

Now back to discussions . . .

Skyresh Bolgolam




Get your FREE, Fun Email at http://www.flairmail.com

At Flairmail, we have more domains for you to choose
from than any other Web-Based Email service provider.
Come take a look, we're sure to have some you like.

The question of whether attached files are to be allowed or disallowed on
this list wasn't covered in the Welcome Message, but it should have been.

This is not an "ego-driven ship", so I'm not going to impose rules on
everyone arbitrarily.  Onelist allows messages up to 500kb in size, and
the FAQ says nothing about attached binaries, so it's really a matter of
choice whether to allow them or not.

I'm of the opinion that Hornblower-L should be a strictly text-based
discussion list, and that, if someone has a graphic or other file he or
she would like to share, that member should placed it on a Web or FTP site
and then include a URL in the body of his message pointing to it.  That
way, those who wish to retrieve the file may go and do so, and those who
don't won't have to download it.

My primary concern about allowing attachments is that some members may be
accessing Hornblower-L with e-mail clients that don't allow them to view
attachments.  They would be left out.  For others, especially those with
slow network connections, downloading even small files (and especially
multiple files) can be a tediously long process or cause serious problems.

Opinions?

The Admiralty
Hornblower-L-owner@onelist.com

I am nearing the end of O'Brian's "The Reverse of the Medal," and it was
another of his delightful books. I thought I would send a few pages so you
can see O'Brian's style. I will attach three files containing two pages
each to this posting, and then send another post with six more pages.
To set the scene:

Jack Aubrey is captain of the Surprise and Stephen Maturin is the ships
surgeon, plus being a highly placed undercover operative in the Admiralty's
intelligence network. The are great friends, but exceedingly different in
almost every way. The book starts in Barbados with Jack sitting on a court
martial board which sentences mutineers to death, while Stephen is trying
to save the life of a sickly American captain being held prisoner until he
can be exchanged.

A young black man calls upon Jack and he turns out to be Jack's bastard
son, Sam, about whom he was previously unaware. Sam is on his way to
Africa, but has been to England and called on Jack's wife Sophie, looking
for Jack. Stephen is fretting because he has heard that his wife, Diana, is
upset because she has heard that he was having an affair with a young
officer's wife while stationed in the Mediterranean a year ago. He had
intentionally given that (false) appearance as part of an undercover
intelligence scheme that failed, but he could never explain that to Diana
for security reasons; so he just wrote her normally and ignored the whole
thing (they have not seen their wives for around two years.)

Jack is an incredibly good seaman, but ashore it is completely another
matter, and almost everything he does ends up in a disaster. Stephen is
your basic nerd, who has been on missions with Jack for at least 15 years
and still knows nothing about sailing and is always at risk of falling in
the water whenever he is within five feet of it. In addition to being a
doctor (in an earlier book he successfully treated a head injury by peeling
off the scalp, sawing a hole in the skull, unscrambling the brains,
covering the hole with a silver cap that the blacksmith made from a coin or
two, and then sewing back the scalp; all with no anesthetic and while
almost the entire crew was hanging on the shrouds and railings watching,)
he is a scientist of great renown in the fields of birds, beetles, fish,
etc. The crew loves Stephen, if for no other reason than the prodigiously
successful brain surgery that they all got to watch, and they forgive him
his complete inability to understand anything nautical.

Right after the mutineers are sentenced to die, but before they are hung
(the Admiral wants it done on Sunday to be more impressive,) the Surprise
is sent to England to be sold out of the service, for although she is a
very sweet swimmer, and Jack loves her greatly, she is old and obsolete.
However the American privateer Spartan has been causing trouble in the
waters through which the Surprise will pass and Jack has been instructed to
take her if he can.

They encounter the Spartan, a very fast ship, and are within minutes of
taking her, when due to a slow action by Jack, she gets away, when she
really should not have. They get to Portsmouth and Stephen finds that Diana
has left him while Jack gets a very nice stock market tip from an obviously
high-placed stranger he befriends at an inn. Stephen also finds that the
Intellegence Branch is in disarray and that a man named Wray, whom Jack
accused of cheating at cards several books back, has become Second
Secretary of the Admiralty. The reader knows that Wray is a French
sympathizer and spy, but the English are unaware of this.

Due to exigent circumstances, Stephen has in a previous book had to
reluctantly depend on Wray to pass on highly sensitive information to the
Admiralty and also convey a personal message to Diana (which might account
for her leaving Stephen.) Wray had tried to arrange for the death of both
Stephen, who he really wants, and Jack, who would be a nice extra.

The stranger who gave Jack the stock tip swore him to secrecy, but Jack is
the exuberant type and although he tried mightily, he did slip a little.
Jack is already in serious financial straits from being bilked by
unscrupulous landsmen in the past, but now he has invested all his prize
money on the stock tips and the stocks are indeed going up. And Jack is
already planning on spending his profits, although he is currently mightily
in debt, on improving his property. One person he has tipped is of course
Stephen, but Stephen has ignored his advice completely and when quite
independently asked by a stranger what he thought of the market, his advice
was contrary to Jack's position.

I have copied several pages in the attached file and the setting is at
Jack's home, Ashgrove Cottage, and the crew of the Surprise is engaged in a
cricket match with the crew of the Tartarus. Stephen is just arriving from
Portsmouth and Sophie (Jack's wife) was visiting relatives, for she had no
idea that Jack had returned. Since she is not there, Jack has taken it upon
himself to have the men make a clean sweep of the house, and they have
virtually dismantled it. A further note: Babbington has been around since
the start, he was a boy midshipman (a "squeaker") who sailed with Jack
until he finally became a captain in his own right.

At 03:32 PM 3/13/99 -0500, you wrote:
>From: Serenleono <verax@...>
>
>Welcome aboard, Cam.  I'm also an admirer of O'Brian's books, and also
>started with MASTER AND COMMANDER, though I have to admit that I've read
>but a minority of the series thus far (but looking forward to the rest).
>What did you think of THE FAR SIDE OF THE WORLD?  I haven't purchased it
>yet.

The great, great, very great author: Patrick O'Brian.

Here are the first 17 Aubrey-Maturin books in the order written:

Master & Commander
Post Captain
H.M.S. Surprise
The Mauritius Command
Desolation Island
The Fortune of War
The Surgeon's Mate
The Ionian Mission
Treason's Harbor
The Far Side of the World
The Reverse of the Medal
The Letter of Marque
The Thirteen Gun Salute
The Nutmeg Consolation
The Truelove
The Wine Dark Sea
The Commodore

If you think you are going to read them (and I don't know how you can't get
hooked,) then I recommend that, right at the start, you buy "Harbors and
High Seas" by King and Hattendorf, Owl Books, ISBN 0-8050-4610-0. Which is
sub-titled "An Atlas and Geographical Guide to the Aubrey-Maturin Novels of
Patrick O'Brian. I also really think that they are best read in the order
written. Obviously each stands alone, but they also build on the ones before.

As I said, I started with "Master & Commander" after Christmas and am now
into "The Reverse of the Medal." I did not discover "Harbors and High Seas"
until about three weeks ago (at a bookstore) and it is really helpful to
see on the maps just where the action is taking place. I was reading the
books with an atlas at my side, but most places to which O'Brien refers are
not on the maps I had. Also, a few of them are fictions.

I have gotten all the O'Brian books from the library, and being determined
to read them in order, sometimes I had to wait until the book I wanted was
returned. Since I liked O'Brian so much, I wanted to read all his books,
and I like to read an author in the order that he wrote his books. Was not
able to do that, but I did read "Testimonies," which was his first and just
a terrific story. It takes place in Wales, is not about the sea, might be
called a love story, and I highly recommend it.

Next comes "The Catalans" (Stephen Maturin is a Catalan,) and it is not in
our library system and I have not read it.

Then comes "The Golden Ocean" and this starts his seagoing novels. I only
got to read the first chapter, but will get back to it, because it starts
just great. Next is "The Unknown Shore," which is about two young boys who
go to sea, Jack & Toby. Clearly this Jack & Toby are the forerunners of the
Jack Aubrey & Stephen Maturin in "Master & Commander," although Jack and
Stephen meet for the first time in M&C. However, their personalities are
virtually identical.

So if you want to get in on the ground floor of POB's seagoing novels, you
might start with Golden Ocean, and it is no stretch to say that Unknown
Shore really starts the Aubrey-Maturin series. He also wrote a novel called
"Richard Temple," and I know nothing of it. (I should check Amazon.)

In a way I think it is a shame to classify POB's novels as seagoing, not
because they aren't, but because they are so much more. I have a female
friend who has much the same reading tastes as I, but when I describe POB
the seagoing part sort of turns her off. To me, he is just a great, clever,
urbane, arcane, incredibly intelligent and sly author who uses the sea as
his setting. I first got on to him by accidentally running across his books
in the library about a month after I had read an outstanding review of his
latest book (I must confess I do not know its name) in the Wall Street
Journal. Something clicked and I decided to try one, seeing so many on the
shelf and greatly impressed (prodigiously as Jack or Stephen would say) buy
all the great reviews on the various covers, I quickly determined that
Master & C was the beginning of the A-M series and started with it.

These books are great fun, you can't go wrong starting with "The Unknown
Shore," and perhaps "The Golden Ocean" might even be a better place to
start. I can also guarantee you that there is no one person alive who
understands every word in any of his books; with the possible exception of
POB himself, but I suspect he may be pulling a little leg with his
scientific jargon of the period. It really is great fun.

Cam wrote:


>I'm here because I have become addicted to Patrick O'Brian.
>Fortunately I started with "Master & Commander" and have read them
>in order. Have just finished "The Far Side of the World." Also read
>his first book, "Testimonies," which I thought was just great. Any
>O'Brian fans out there?

[Sideboys race into place and snap to attention.  The twittering of
bosun's pipes is heard.]

Welcome aboard, Cam.  I'm also an admirer of O'Brian's books, and also
started with MASTER AND COMMANDER, though I have to admit that I've read
but a minority of the series thus far (but looking forward to the rest).
What did you think of THE FAR SIDE OF THE WORLD?  I haven't purchased it
yet.

In the case of the Hornblower Saga, I read in the order that I discovered
them, beginning with SHIP OF THE LINE, then FLYING COLOURS, then
backtracking to THE HAPPY RETURN, after which I finally bought the whole
lot and started from MISTER MIDSHIPMAN and read through the series in
chronological order.  I don't think it detracted from my enjoyment of the
saga, but I made a deliberate effort afterward to read other naval series
in order -- such as Alexander Kent, Dudley Pope, and O'Brian.

What other sea stories have you folks read?  Any recommendations?

Seren

I'm here because I have become addicted to Patrick O'Brian. Fortunately I
started with "Master & Commander" and have read them in order. Have just
finished "The Far Side of the World." Also read his first book,
"Testimonies," which I thought was just great. Any O'Brian fans out there?

At 01:47 AM 3/13/99 -0000, you wrote:
>Hello, Hornblower fan!
>
>Welcome to the "Horatio Hornblower & other Naval Heroes"
>discussion list.
>

I had a reply from the Arts & Entertainment Network (A&E) today,
confirming that the first episode of the "Hornblower" series, "The Even
Chance", will air on Sunday, April 4th.  They didn't give a time or
indicate how quickly after the other episodes would follow.

Anyone know when part IV, "The Frogs and The Lobsters", will be airing in
the UK?  The official Hornblower site <www.hornblowertv.com> says only
that it will be "shortly".

Hwyl,

Seren Lyon

Vincent St._James wrote:


>You say "apparently." Do we know this date is genuine? The reason I ask,
>I've seen April 3rd and 4th given before, but the A&E website doesn't
>give any useful information. It's too soon to be on their online
schedule.

To be honest, I can't confirm the date for the start of the Hornblowers in
the States either.  As you say, the A&E Web site doesn't yet include a
schedule for April -- or didn't a few days ago; perhaps it does now that
we're in March.

>> Also, fans in the States won't want to miss A&E's half-hour
>> documentary on "The Making of Horatio Hornblower

>At only half an hour's running length, it doesn't sound like they
>could cover a lot, but I'm sure I'll watch anyway.

I think half an hour is a pretty fair span for a documentary of this sort.
  You don't want to give away too much in this kind of teaser or you'll
spoil the experience of seeing the real thing for your audience, and
thirty minutes is plenty of time to introduce viewers to the subject and
show something of what it is like to shoot what essentially are four
separate films on board real sailing vessels.

I have no intention of missing the documentary.

I have to ask:  has anyone on the list actually seen the Hornblower
programmes?  Thus far everyone seems to be from the States and aching to
see it in April.

Hwyl,

Seren

The new Hornblower productions will apparently be airing on the American
cable channel Arts & Entertainment Network (A&E) on April the 4th.  Mark
your calendars.

Also, fans in the States won't want to miss A&E's half-hour documentary on
"The Making of Horatio Hornblower", taking a behind-the-scenes look at the
new British productions.

Air dates and times (given here for Eastern [New York] Time):

	 Saturday, March 6 -- 2:30 PM - 3:00 PM
	 Sunday, March 7 -- 10:30 AM - 11:00 AM
	 Thursday, March 18 -- 5:30 AM - 6:00 AM
	 Sunday, March 21 -- 5:30 PM - 6:00 PM
	 Monday, March 22 -- 5:30 AM - 6:00 AM
	 Sunday, March 28 -- Noon - 12:30 PM

I'm getting excited.  Friends and relatives in Wales tell me the shows are
super.

Seren Lyon

Greetings to everyone!

Those who aren't in the States, don't have direct access to National
Public Radio (NPR), but who have RealAudio, will surely be interested in
listening to a recent story on NPR's "Morning Edition" programme.  Host
Bob Edwards talked with T. R. Reid, London bureau chief for the Washington
Post, about the "Historical Rivalry" (as the report was titled) betwixt
fans of C. S. Forester and Patrick O'Brian.


<http://www.npr.org/programs/morning/archives/1999/990104.me.html>

Very amusing . . . and there's even mention of the new Hornblower TV
production (already seen in the U.K.); apparently it will air in the
States on A&E in May.

Cheers, all!

Seren Lyon